Oh PLEASE shut the fuck up. "True Muslim character"? Do you know a damn thing about the history of traditional Islam, the Islam that existed prior to Hassan al-Banna's perversion? No, I don't think you do. You think that Islamism == Islam, so you think that knowing a few violent-sounding Qur'an quotes and the names of a few terrorists means you know the whole religion.
Try talking to everyday Muslims for 10 damn minutes and seeing what they think of their religion and what they think of political Islamism.
Apathetic? Most of the Americans I know are seething with rage at the politicians on offer, so calling them 'apathetic' seems... odd.
And yet the largest new political movement for actually getting some of those angry voters into the political process is the far-right nuttery of the Tea Party. Huh.
Sod that, most of the problems in this country are a result of attempting to impose a governmental framework made for large territories with low, even population density on an actual country composed of a rich, dense, populous, educated archipelago of cities and metropolitan areas scattered throughout huge swathes of poor, sparse, unpopulated, ignorant countryside that are both codependent on each other.
For another one, the internet has vastly amplified people's preexisting predilection for believing in folk wisdom or "from The People" information over solid facts. The internet is quite sure, for example, that both American political parties are bought-and-paid-for apparatuses of the Anti-Marijuana Lobby, neoconservativism, and some kind of Zionist conspiracy. Solid fact demonstrates that none of these things are true, but on the internet you can get a thousand "independent media" sources echoing your own fears back at you until they seem entirely justified.
You exacerbate the process whereby parts of America, specifically the parts containing rich cities, become mega-sized First World city-states while everything else reverts to post-industrial Third World impoverished hell.
I expect that if you plan to make statements such as, "God's all about war and violence and punishment and judgement, and Christianity worships fear more than love," that you have broad experience to back it up.
You are something like the second or third person I've seen on this comment page to handle our topic in any kind of mature way. Thanks. If I had mod points, you'd be receiving one.
But yes, when he goes on and thinks he can control my life because his imaginary friend told him it's a good idea, it's when I start to have a problem with it. Can anyone tell me why those religious types usually feel that compelling urge to mess with my life? They can't just go and heed those commands and avoid those taboos and leave me alone, maybe consider me a lost soul and sinner and shun me (hey, more power to you, guys!) because I'll burn in $anti_paradise after death. No. They have to "save" me. And if they can't "save" me they have to destroy me.
Don't think that you can avoid questions of ethics or morality simply by branding all religion as silly superstition.
Great for you. Have you ever considered that your part of the United States is not representative of Christianity and other religion all across the world?
Other than the science classroom itself, what gives science or scientists the right to dictate where religion should have influence or not have influence on "aspects of culture"?
Well, it appears that Carl Sagan was profoundly ignorant of every form of religion other than American fanatic Christianity -- just like most of the rest of the "New Atheists". Now that he's dead, I wonder if God has taught him the folly of drawing universal conclusions from minuscule sample sizes.
Still, it is perfectly possible to have morality without subscribing to the particular dogmas of [insert religion here].
Sure, but science won't actually give you any moral or ethical values or axioms from which to derive a solid moral system. Science only gives you factual data to which you can apply your preexisting moral and ethical values to calculate a moral decision.
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Oh PLEASE shut the fuck up. "True Muslim character"? Do you know a damn thing about the history of traditional Islam, the Islam that existed prior to Hassan al-Banna's perversion? No, I don't think you do. You think that Islamism == Islam, so you think that knowing a few violent-sounding Qur'an quotes and the names of a few terrorists means you know the whole religion.
Try talking to everyday Muslims for 10 damn minutes and seeing what they think of their religion and what they think of political Islamism.
Hey, you can always count on alliance with the one country more despised by Islamists than the rest of the West put together!
Apathetic? Most of the Americans I know are seething with rage at the politicians on offer, so calling them 'apathetic' seems... odd.
And yet the largest new political movement for actually getting some of those angry voters into the political process is the far-right nuttery of the Tea Party. Huh.
Sod that, most of the problems in this country are a result of attempting to impose a governmental framework made for large territories with low, even population density on an actual country composed of a rich, dense, populous, educated archipelago of cities and metropolitan areas scattered throughout huge swathes of poor, sparse, unpopulated, ignorant countryside that are both codependent on each other.
For another one, the internet has vastly amplified people's preexisting predilection for believing in folk wisdom or "from The People" information over solid facts. The internet is quite sure, for example, that both American political parties are bought-and-paid-for apparatuses of the Anti-Marijuana Lobby, neoconservativism, and some kind of Zionist conspiracy. Solid fact demonstrates that none of these things are true, but on the internet you can get a thousand "independent media" sources echoing your own fears back at you until they seem entirely justified.
Really? And here I thought that assuming people of color were involved with drugs made you a racist!
In the world where that multinational operates everywhere but is incorporated in, and therefore subject to the laws of, Delaware.
You exacerbate the process whereby parts of America, specifically the parts containing rich cities, become mega-sized First World city-states while everything else reverts to post-industrial Third World impoverished hell.
But Christianity doesn't mimic Judaism. It mimics the Euro-pagan religions it replaced and absorbed. What do you think the Saints are?
Islam, on the other hand, is a straight-up imitation of Judaism.
I expect that if you plan to make statements such as, "God's all about war and violence and punishment and judgement, and Christianity worships fear more than love," that you have broad experience to back it up.
I wonder if you recognize deliberate irony when you see it.
Admittedly, programmers are basically craftsmen who learn their craft from an academic institution for no good reason.
What, most IT shops are run by Silurians? That would certainly explain the hatred for their workers and the underground locations....
We're not arguing, I was just pointing out that the quoted sentence was somewhat irrelevant.
You are something like the second or third person I've seen on this comment page to handle our topic in any kind of mature way. Thanks. If I had mod points, you'd be receiving one.
But yes, when he goes on and thinks he can control my life because his imaginary friend told him it's a good idea, it's when I start to have a problem with it. Can anyone tell me why those religious types usually feel that compelling urge to mess with my life? They can't just go and heed those commands and avoid those taboos and leave me alone, maybe consider me a lost soul and sinner and shun me (hey, more power to you, guys!) because I'll burn in $anti_paradise after death. No. They have to "save" me. And if they can't "save" me they have to destroy me.
Don't think that you can avoid questions of ethics or morality simply by branding all religion as silly superstition.
Great for you. Have you ever considered that your part of the United States is not representative of Christianity and other religion all across the world?
So you're saying that when the Communists taught kids to believe in nothing, the kids ended up believing in nothing? OMFG!
Actually, you're thinking of Catholic school.
Or it means that God isn't a magic spell and will heal the sick when and if he damn well pleases.
Other than the science classroom itself, what gives science or scientists the right to dictate where religion should have influence or not have influence on "aspects of culture"?
Well, it appears that Carl Sagan was profoundly ignorant of every form of religion other than American fanatic Christianity -- just like most of the rest of the "New Atheists". Now that he's dead, I wonder if God has taught him the folly of drawing universal conclusions from minuscule sample sizes.
I'm no Christian, but I'd really have a great, hilarious time watching you try to kill God. So please, go ahead.
Well technically the Old Testament, the New Testament, the Qur'an and the Talmud were written independently.
Still, it is perfectly possible to have morality without subscribing to the particular dogmas of [insert religion here].
Sure, but science won't actually give you any moral or ethical values or axioms from which to derive a solid moral system. Science only gives you factual data to which you can apply your preexisting moral and ethical values to calculate a moral decision.