SourceForge doesn't contain any code borrowed from other GPLed programs, does it? If it does, how are they going to get away with this? Am I the only one who sees the irony in a "Linux" company violating the GPL?
sf itself is collection of PHP scripts which interface to various tools -- most of which are not GPL'd -- including PostgreSQL, CVS, ssh, Amanda, etc. There's a page listing the various tools they use. sourceforge as a broader concept is a service, kind of like rackspace.com for your software.
sf is almost certainly not closing the source of the version they sell to companies, though they probably do restrict its distribution. What they are doing is charging for custom modification, such as working with existing project and QA systems. These versions are not distributed to the public, and thus are considered "internal". And it's perfectly within the spirit of the GPL, because there is an otherwise very functional core that is actively developed under the GPL, and not under the complete control of VA. This is that support model that Open Source folks have been going on about... or did you think support was just about staffing a helpdesk?
Bingo. Hell, I worked for a small web shoppe with a dev staff of less than a dozen, and there were more projects than people, with collaboration that was easy enough by walking over to another's office, but no good system for tracking bugs or feature requests. Most common problem wasn't remembering the outstanding bugs or requests, it was "when did you ask about that?"
Then there was the big fortune 50 company, which had dozens of ad hoc projects in my department alone, many of which would lose the code whenever they restructured the dev servers in upgrades and new projects and the project wasn't active at the moment. Off the top of my head, I could have used the Java tty screenscraper code that was sitting around somewhere in a related project, then just up and disappeared later. I could sure as hell have used a project browser then.
web services, big deal
on
Shirky On P2P
·
· Score: 2
Jeepers, we were going to have a shiny happy remoted interconnected interoperating world with CORBA. And before that it was RPC. Now we're supposed to get it with UDDI and SOAP and so forth. Why? What's changed that people are going to completely throw out the window the idea of orthogonal client and infrastructures.
Let's look at CPAN for a second. Here's how you run a CPAN site: cd to a public ftp directory and wget --recursive ftp://some-cpan-url. The smart client figures out the rest, and people can use dumb ftp clients too.
Here's how slashdot disseminates its feeds in XML and RDF and HTML: you grab it from a URL, and the webserver shovels it at you, blithely ignorant of the semantic meaning of the bits it's transferring around.
In the magical world of webservices, you now get to write special methods on the server end, configure the server to invoke them, and in general ensure that you don't interoperate with anything. Oh yes, you also get to classify the whole system with some big bureaucratic UDDI schema that is supposed to describe it all to any capable client, as if you didn't already write the client to work with this domain-specific protocol already.
All this might be great for intranet apps... I just don't see it serving its purported purpose of generic information interchange.
> How can you say it's deprecated when I'm still seeing it in every Office 2000 application I use?
Maybe it's inconsistent across Office2k then. All I have is Word2k, and it indeed is very much SDI. I don't even see a way to change it to use MDI. I imagine Access2k does use MDI, where it actually makes some sense to do so, but I haven't seen it.
feh, should have previewed. should have read "there's lots of reasons to hate windows, this one is tired ten year old mac evangalista fodder and needs to be retired"
Windows is horribly unusable, especially for those of us used to Macintosh. The very design of Windows with its BS document-window-inside-application-window is a major drag on its usability, imho
gentlemen, our word for today is canard. microsoft has deprecated MDI since windows 95. there's lots of reasons to hate. and as someone who has supported mac and windows, no one ever had modality issues with windows menubars, selecting "file->save" in the wrong application. of course experienced mac users don't do that. experienced windows users also don't "hunt" for menubars either. that dog didn't hunt then, it sure don't now.
> But the choice to use ext3 is good one since, its mature,stable and easier to administrate and use.
I would contest that it's mature (it is brand new), and time will tell if it's stable. Personally I tend to think that filesystems take longer to shake out than the operating systems that use them. The fact that it's largely additive to ext2 and fixes its biggest wart (metadata integrity) makes it quite appealing.
Now if we could see softupdates applied to the ext2 side, I'd be willing to switch servers from BSD over to it (I understand reiser is faster than softupdates, but it needs a lot more time in the oven, being such a radical redesign). Well, to debian with source.debs anyway, not redhat and rpm versioning hell.
This is in stark contrast to the days when I grew up. I remember my Pascal teacher 'giving' me an copy of Turbo Pascal compiler because she knew I didn't have one at home to practice with. Then I felt bad because I knew it had been illegally copied. If only she or I had known that there *were* OSS compilers out there. These were something I didn't discover until college.
If I were your teacher, I'd still have given you TP. I learned C from right-clicking everything I saw in Turbo C (which displays help on whatever you clicked on). Much faster than manpages, usually more examples too.
Re:Good! Now the next steps...
on
Linux Win In Schools
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· Score: 3, Informative
Secondly, I haven't seen a gui application yet that I religiously envoke from the command prompt.
I've done tech support for windows at various places, and solaris at Sun, where the secretaries use solaris and CDE and do just fine thanks, and most users are trained on and prefer the command line, and often don't have any other way to launch many applications. Netscape might be launched from the browser button on the panel, but brio for example is launched by clicking the terminal icon, then typing "brio" (no & needed, the universal wrapper for many apps would nohup the actual app). This works on anyone's desktop anywhere on the network anywhere in the company, no matter how it's been configured. Regularity like that is a nice thing. As for windows, I had people running winipcfg and regedt32 from start->run all the time (yes, regedit, they didn't give the helpdesk remote registry access, this is typical in IT shops).
And for christ's sake, stop fucking whining about being potentially modded down.
A little postscript to my last post: Don't get me wrong, I hate to say "don't get me wrong, but", but... I don't actually buy into a lot of the criticisms of RMS, including the accusations of him as a control freak. He's let go of every one of his major projects, handing them over to teams of very competent coders. I do know there's some substance to the fact that RMS wanted and perhaps still wants Drepper removed as chief maintainer of glibc, as I know one of the candidates RMS had wanted on this "steering committee"... no I won't name anyone, so take it at its near-zero value as hearsay. RMS isn't exactly alone in this opinion, as many people who've run into Drepper's very prickly manner and management style would testify.
Is he a zealot? You bet. Is he a communist? Probably more than he thinks (when software is required to be free, it's essentially been expropriated and given to "the people"). Is he A Bad Guy? Not in my book.
A messenger is a third party merely delivering information. This is RMS's personal insistence. While under other circumstances (e.g. a technical opinion) it would be simple ad hominem, RMS's condescending attitude toward linux and his lopsided inability to credit any organization but his own, are perfectly valid reasons to dismiss this particular request, it being germane to the issue in the first place. It's not just a quibble over semantics either -- on GNU emacs, RMS gratuitously renamed various symbols from "linux" to "gnulinux", breaking a lot of other people's code. I gather the reason his code isn't suspect any more is because he no longer codes... a shame, he's a genius programmer, and should stick to it.
What is so hard about typing GNU/Linux now? Such simple effort expended towards acknowledging so many people. Why not?
Because Stallman continues to belittle Linux and by association, all those people who contributed to it, as "just a kernel". glibc was going nowhere before linux came around. Arguably, it's practically linuxlibc now, it actually has portability problems to other OS's (the only other OS it works on is HURD, but it doesn't even use any HURD-isms). Stallman continues to paint linux as an upstart pretender that "just dropped in a kernel" in an otherwise complete system. When he can show Linux a modicum of respect for its contributions, I'll see about respecting his wishes.
Where in the DMCA does it state that Amendment I, my right to freedom of speech, has been repealed?
Ben Franklin, about a million copies of him, repealed it.
Re:Did you expect any differently?
on
$1200 Cheap!
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· Score: 2
Gatesco wants
Desktop PC Market - 99%
Internet - 99%
Videogames - 75% (Expected)
World Domination - 75%
Clue for you, mister numbers: they want 100%. That's their freakin mission statement. Don't like it, don't buy from them. Christ almighty, save me from people with good intentions.
I *like* slashdot's look -- when it's slashdot green and not some godawful khaki/mauve category "theme". I like the subtle grey header bars that go all the way across as opposed to advogato's neon bars of varying widths. I like the subdued colors over the garishness of most nuke sites.
Other comments: automunging the real email address and ditching the fake one. What slash munges, a spambot can unmunge. You do know that most spambots already auto-unmunge the standard munging done to listserv archives? Now I'm going to have to get a throwaway account just for slashdot.
Lameness filters are still lame.
Running post numbers are nice, I just hope it really didn't have anything to do with FP and more about unique id's. "first post" still means "first post" after all.
Would be nice to support some javascript in the clients if they're capable of it. Glasscode's async scoring mechanism is a nice example of what you can do with javascript.
You just don't hear about them. Check out Joy and Chaos. (the link for chaos points to Coldstore, Chaos is a toy that comes with coldstore and is used to test it). Chaos has perhaps more in common with postscript than forth. The cold fact is, people don't like to program everything in rpn.
Personally, I like the idea of Intentional Programming, where you code to an AST, creating higher levels of abstract AST nodes called "intentions". In IP, the language is merely an intermediate tool to reach that end, and the runtime is a particular implementation of it, both expressed in terms of transformations on the tree (simonyi's colorful term for such transformation functions is "enzymes").
> What you've learned is that shitty programming can run slow anywhere
Yes, such as properly written swing. I saw a scheduling applet using a swing GUI that was running damn fast... until I realized that it wasn't using any widgets on the main screen. The "flat" looking interface was a big canvas object and they wrote their own code to deal with user clicks on the canvas. Probably didn't even deal with the event model beyond the initial mouse events. Certainly no widget tree to have to traverse.
Moral of the story: if you want decent performance, do it yourself, because the stuff you get out of the box will produce crap. Meanwhile, every whipped-up VB and Delphi app I've seen has at least had a responsive interface.
Slashdot Mirror
SourceForge doesn't contain any code borrowed from other GPLed programs, does it? If it does, how are they going to get away with this? Am I the only one who sees the irony in a "Linux" company violating the GPL?
... or did you think support was just about staffing a helpdesk?
sf itself is collection of PHP scripts which interface to various tools -- most of which are not GPL'd -- including PostgreSQL, CVS, ssh, Amanda, etc. There's a page listing the various tools they use. sourceforge as a broader concept is a service, kind of like rackspace.com for your software.
sf is almost certainly not closing the source of the version they sell to companies, though they probably do restrict its distribution. What they are doing is charging for custom modification, such as working with existing project and QA systems. These versions are not distributed to the public, and thus are considered "internal". And it's perfectly within the spirit of the GPL, because there is an otherwise very functional core that is actively developed under the GPL, and not under the complete control of VA. This is that support model that Open Source folks have been going on about
unless you have hundreds of projects
Bingo. Hell, I worked for a small web shoppe with a dev staff of less than a dozen, and there were more projects than people, with collaboration that was easy enough by walking over to another's office, but no good system for tracking bugs or feature requests. Most common problem wasn't remembering the outstanding bugs or requests, it was "when did you ask about that?"
Then there was the big fortune 50 company, which had dozens of ad hoc projects in my department alone, many of which would lose the code whenever they restructured the dev servers in upgrades and new projects and the project wasn't active at the moment. Off the top of my head, I could have used the Java tty screenscraper code that was sitting around somewhere in a related project, then just up and disappeared later. I could sure as hell have used a project browser then.
Jeepers, we were going to have a shiny happy remoted interconnected interoperating world with CORBA. And before that it was RPC. Now we're supposed to get it with UDDI and SOAP and so forth. Why? What's changed that people are going to completely throw out the window the idea of orthogonal client and infrastructures.
... I just don't see it serving its purported purpose of generic information interchange.
Let's look at CPAN for a second. Here's how you run a CPAN site: cd to a public ftp directory and wget --recursive ftp://some-cpan-url. The smart client figures out the rest, and people can use dumb ftp clients too.
Here's how slashdot disseminates its feeds in XML and RDF and HTML: you grab it from a URL, and the webserver shovels it at you, blithely ignorant of the semantic meaning of the bits it's transferring around.
In the magical world of webservices, you now get to write special methods on the server end, configure the server to invoke them, and in general ensure that you don't interoperate with anything. Oh yes, you also get to classify the whole system with some big bureaucratic UDDI schema that is supposed to describe it all to any capable client, as if you didn't already write the client to work with this domain-specific protocol already.
All this might be great for intranet apps
> Water in drains and toilets are NOT effected by there location on the earth
YHBT. HAND.
Chuck "twirling, twirling (counterclockwise) toward freedom!" Adams
> How is it that KDE is keeping up with them then?
quality over quantity perhaps?
> And before anyone says it, yes, computers have reached Wales now
yeah but the cost of classified ads in the paper is prohibitive when they're looking for programmers in llyncyrfdlywrfldycrlycywwcrynrfrwnr...
i'd like to buy a vowel.
(oh crap i think i just called someone's mother a really nasty name)
> How can you say it's deprecated when I'm still seeing it in every Office 2000 application I use?
Maybe it's inconsistent across Office2k then. All I have is Word2k, and it indeed is very much SDI. I don't even see a way to change it to use MDI. I imagine Access2k does use MDI, where it actually makes some sense to do so, but I haven't seen it.
feh, should have previewed. should have read "there's lots of reasons to hate windows, this one is tired ten year old mac evangalista fodder and needs to be retired"
Windows is horribly unusable, especially for those of us used to Macintosh. The very design of Windows with its BS document-window-inside-application-window is a major drag on its usability, imho
gentlemen, our word for today is canard. microsoft has deprecated MDI since windows 95. there's lots of reasons to hate. and as someone who has supported mac and windows, no one ever had modality issues with windows menubars, selecting "file->save" in the wrong application. of course experienced mac users don't do that. experienced windows users also don't "hunt" for menubars either. that dog didn't hunt then, it sure don't now.
> But the choice to use ext3 is good one since, its mature,stable and easier to administrate and use.
.debs anyway, not redhat and rpm versioning hell.
I would contest that it's mature (it is brand new), and time will tell if it's stable. Personally I tend to think that filesystems take longer to shake out than the operating systems that use them. The fact that it's largely additive to ext2 and fixes its biggest wart (metadata integrity) makes it quite appealing.
Now if we could see softupdates applied to the ext2 side, I'd be willing to switch servers from BSD over to it (I understand reiser is faster than softupdates, but it needs a lot more time in the oven, being such a radical redesign). Well, to debian with source
I'd like to see the face of the attorney for the software maker of SimCity, SimTower, the Sims, blah blah everything Sim when he/she sees this story.
That'd be Maxis. Don't fuck with them, all they have to do is hit the disaster button a few times and Hsouton is hsitory!
This is in stark contrast to the days when I grew up. I remember my Pascal teacher 'giving' me an copy of Turbo Pascal compiler because she knew I didn't have one at home to practice with. Then I felt bad because I knew it had been illegally copied. If only she or I had known that there *were* OSS compilers out there. These were something I didn't discover until college.
If I were your teacher, I'd still have given you TP. I learned C from right-clicking everything I saw in Turbo C (which displays help on whatever you clicked on). Much faster than manpages, usually more examples too.
Secondly, I haven't seen a gui application yet that I religiously envoke from the command prompt.
I've done tech support for windows at various places, and solaris at Sun, where the secretaries use solaris and CDE and do just fine thanks, and most users are trained on and prefer the command line, and often don't have any other way to launch many applications. Netscape might be launched from the browser button on the panel, but brio for example is launched by clicking the terminal icon, then typing "brio" (no & needed, the universal wrapper for many apps would nohup the actual app). This works on anyone's desktop anywhere on the network anywhere in the company, no matter how it's been configured. Regularity like that is a nice thing. As for windows, I had people running winipcfg and regedt32 from start->run all the time (yes, regedit, they didn't give the helpdesk remote registry access, this is typical in IT shops).
And for christ's sake, stop fucking whining about being potentially modded down.
A little postscript to my last post: Don't get me wrong, I hate to say "don't get me wrong, but", but ... I don't actually buy into a lot of the criticisms of RMS, including the accusations of him as a control freak. He's let go of every one of his major projects, handing them over to teams of very competent coders. I do know there's some substance to the fact that RMS wanted and perhaps still wants Drepper removed as chief maintainer of glibc, as I know one of the candidates RMS had wanted on this "steering committee" ... no I won't name anyone, so take it at its near-zero value as hearsay. RMS isn't exactly alone in this opinion, as many people who've run into Drepper's very prickly manner and management style would testify.
Is he a zealot? You bet. Is he a communist? Probably more than he thinks (when software is required to be free, it's essentially been expropriated and given to "the people"). Is he A Bad Guy? Not in my book.
A messenger is a third party merely delivering information. This is RMS's personal insistence. While under other circumstances (e.g. a technical opinion) it would be simple ad hominem, RMS's condescending attitude toward linux and his lopsided inability to credit any organization but his own, are perfectly valid reasons to dismiss this particular request, it being germane to the issue in the first place. It's not just a quibble over semantics either -- on GNU emacs, RMS gratuitously renamed various symbols from "linux" to "gnulinux", breaking a lot of other people's code. I gather the reason his code isn't suspect any more is because he no longer codes ... a shame, he's a genius programmer, and should stick to it.
What is so hard about typing GNU/Linux now? Such simple effort expended towards acknowledging so many people. Why not?
Because Stallman continues to belittle Linux and by association, all those people who contributed to it, as "just a kernel". glibc was going nowhere before linux came around. Arguably, it's practically linuxlibc now, it actually has portability problems to other OS's (the only other OS it works on is HURD, but it doesn't even use any HURD-isms). Stallman continues to paint linux as an upstart pretender that "just dropped in a kernel" in an otherwise complete system. When he can show Linux a modicum of respect for its contributions, I'll see about respecting his wishes.
I don't get it.
I suppose it was a fairly US-centric joke... Ben Franklin's portrait appears on the $100 bill.
Where in the DMCA does it state that Amendment I, my right to freedom of speech, has been repealed?
Ben Franklin, about a million copies of him, repealed it.
Gatesco wants
Desktop PC Market - 99%
Internet - 99%
Videogames - 75% (Expected)
World Domination - 75%
Clue for you, mister numbers: they want 100%. That's their freakin mission statement. Don't like it, don't buy from them. Christ almighty, save me from people with good intentions.
... i just love doing a good dead.
I *like* slashdot's look -- when it's slashdot green and not some godawful khaki/mauve category "theme". I like the subtle grey header bars that go all the way across as opposed to advogato's neon bars of varying widths. I like the subdued colors over the garishness of most nuke sites.
Other comments: automunging the real email address and ditching the fake one. What slash munges, a spambot can unmunge. You do know that most spambots already auto-unmunge the standard munging done to listserv archives? Now I'm going to have to get a throwaway account just for slashdot.
Lameness filters are still lame.
Running post numbers are nice, I just hope it really didn't have anything to do with FP and more about unique id's. "first post" still means "first post" after all.
Would be nice to support some javascript in the clients if they're capable of it. Glasscode's async scoring mechanism is a nice example of what you can do with javascript.
> Is there some sort of competition between Red Had and *BSD?
/compat/linux is redhat. Personally I wish it was debian, but there doesn't seem to be a big push to switch.
Not likely.
And what will Disney do with all three of them?
... I don't think even they know why)
PDA's powered by squeak perhaps? (Squeak is an independent project under the aegis of Disney's IT department
> Why aren't new languages based on Forth?
You just don't hear about them. Check out Joy and Chaos. (the link for chaos points to Coldstore, Chaos is a toy that comes with coldstore and is used to test it). Chaos has perhaps more in common with postscript than forth. The cold fact is, people don't like to program everything in rpn.
Personally, I like the idea of Intentional Programming, where you code to an AST, creating higher levels of abstract AST nodes called "intentions". In IP, the language is merely an intermediate tool to reach that end, and the runtime is a particular implementation of it, both expressed in terms of transformations on the tree (simonyi's colorful term for such transformation functions is "enzymes").
> What you've learned is that shitty programming can run slow anywhere
... until I realized that it wasn't using any widgets on the main screen. The "flat" looking interface was a big canvas object and they wrote their own code to deal with user clicks on the canvas. Probably didn't even deal with the event model beyond the initial mouse events. Certainly no widget tree to have to traverse.
Yes, such as properly written swing. I saw a scheduling applet using a swing GUI that was running damn fast
Moral of the story: if you want decent performance, do it yourself, because the stuff you get out of the box will produce crap. Meanwhile, every whipped-up VB and Delphi app I've seen has at least had a responsive interface.