This whole "just don't buy it" thing is getting ridiculous. What you're basically teaching the next generation to do is to accept whatever the corporate overlords give them, or go to a corner and shutup.
I like how you gloss over that whole middle ground where, if you see a need for a device or other product that the market hasn't filled, you go into business and make a shitload of money filling that need.
These are the dirty little secrets that none of the "open and free" advocates want to admit to: 1) The "freedom" you're spouting off about is only valuable to a consumer if they have the technical expertise to take advantage of it. 90+% of people do not, and of the maybe 10% who do, a vanishingly small number of them actually care to spend their days hacking devices that already work. 2) You're lazy. If there was truly a vast demand for a "free" version of this product, you'd go into business and make a mint for yourself producing it. But you know in your hearts that what you're demanding is for - at best - a small niche / hobbyist market, so you take the safe route and bitch about Apple instead.
Are you sure a "promising feature set" translates to "solves a problem people actually have"? Or is your software a solution in search of a problem?
I would think that if you have a compelling solution to a real problem, you would be able to attract some new users and grow that community. If somebody else is already solving your problem successfully, think long and hard about whether or not your approach is different enough to warrant a new solution; if it is different enough, make your case to that software's community and see if any like-minded people are inclined to join your team. If it is not, then throw your weight behind the existing solution and help make that existing solution better.
Well, with 2 of you outraged, and numbers 3 and 4 soon to be outraged, I'd guess we just cut Ubuntu's market share by a good 10%, right?
Most people don't see a computer as a crusade for freedom, or an end in itself. They see it as a means for communicating with other people, listening to some music, getting some work done, and downloading a bit of porn on the odd quiet night they decide they want to tug one off. They don't really give 2 runny squirts of shit about their "freedom" to recompile the kernel or any other piece of their system because most people lack the specialized knowledge and skills required to take advantage of these "freedoms". Computers are an appliance (multi-functional, to be sure, but an appliance all the same) to the vast majority of computer users today.
While I salute your dedication to freedom as it applies to your hobby, spouting off here about what you intend to do about this incredible slight to your freedom is pretty pointless.
Doesn't much sound like you were on the Apple rollercoaster to begin with. But thanks for checking in to let us know you're not in their target demographic.
OHNOES, an anonymous coward on slashdot is going to "stop using Ubuntu" and "stop recommending it to family, friends, employer, etc." Looks like Ubuntu is done for.
Just when I was starting to believe that 2010 was the year of the Linux desktop, too.:(
I live in the Boston area, and back in 2001, I had several interviews in the San Diego area; Each time I flew out for an interview, the companies (3 of them) offered to (and did) reimburse me after I traveled for airfare, rental car & hotel stay. I had to make the arrangements myself, but all three of the companies cut me a check afterwards to reimburse me.
This is not an uncommon thing in my experience, and I'd be pretty hesitant about a company that would tell me, "Sure we'll consider you, just spend $1000 or so on travel out of your own pocket so we can see if we like you."
If it relied on the project to begin with, that means it already had the features you needed most, in which case progress (although pleasant) is unnecessary.
Yes, because requirements never change over time; runtime environments never change over time; business needs never change over time; the software that you installed 20 years ago should be good enough for you today, by god - because why would you install it at all if it didn't have the features you needed most?
FOSS projects say, "If any of that stuff changes, here's the source, go fix it yourself as technology, runtimes, and requirements change." This freedom is GREAT for technology-literate people. For a small plumbing business that wants to build a customer database and a web site, it makes no sense to hire a team of developers. And so they do the sensible and cost-effective thing: purchase commercial solutions, where somebody who has expertise in development builds and supports the software so they can focus on their area of expertise: Plumbing.
Whether it's a closed-source commercial product you're buying a copy of, or a FOSS project you're buying "support and consultation" for, the fact remains that "finish it yourself if you want" is not a viable option for a large cross-section of businesses, and so is not really a selling point in the eyes of those businesses. Technologists ignore or oversimplify this point frequently here on slashdot, and the blithe assumption that "anybody with half a brain can pick up the source code for MySQL and hammer out the DB features they need," always amuses.
c) There should be a clear agenda ahead for the meeting ahead of time, set by the meeting organizer.
Often, meetings turn into "let's get together and bullshit for an hour about the project." Nothing that needs to be discussed with the team, no decisions or actions required as a result of the meeting. Just an hour because "we should do a status update." When we're already doing status updates via email or some other shared medium.
No, what I said is I haven't bought a Microsoft product in 3+ years. If you're declaring that "using a FAT filesystem" constitutes it being a Microsoft product, then does that mean every Linux distribution that implements this filesystem is also a Microsoft product?
Be careful with your stretches, they may lead you places you don't wish to go.
I'm not changing the subject, either, for what it's worth. This whole ridiculous line of thinking is that Microsoft is somehow out to get YOUR camera and mp3 player. So I asked you to please point out a single case where Microsoft has gone after a consumer for using a device which uses some sort of "unauthorized" FAT filesystem on it. You can't, but that doesn't stop the alarmist idiots from spouting off about how Microsoft is out to destroy every peripheral on earth.
Sure, just as soon as you can enlighten me with the case numbers of court actions that Microsoft has filed against individual users of cameras that use the FAT filesystem?
And people wonder why Microsoft and their shills inspire hatred.
I'm not sure who you're referring to there, as I am neither a shill for Microsoft, nor affiliated with Microsoft in any way. As I already explained, I haven't bought a Microsoft product in at least 3 years, possibly a little longer, and am quite contentedly using all of the types of devices you named.
VFAT should be the posterboy for the insufficiently novel patent.
If "if's" and "but's" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a wonderful Christmas.
A court has disagreed with your assessment of VFAT - dislike that decision all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you may be sued if you infringe on their patent, and if you make business plans that open you up to a lawsuit, you should not be particularly surprised if one is leveled against you.
If you don't want to risk a lawsuit, you avoid infringing, even if you really really wish that the patent decision were different.
I've said elsewhere in this thread that I agree that the patent system needs an overhaul. But the fact of the matter is, the patent system today is the world we live in. While working for reform, you either take judicious risks knowing you may be sued, or you do your own (novel) thing and avoid the risk of a lawsuit.
I'm well aware of how postfix increment & decrement operators work, if that's what you're asking. But since I wasn't attempting to write syntactically correct & logically complete source code, I'm left wondering what your point is, other than to show off that you've taken a programming course somewhere along the way?
If they force other manufacturers to drop FAT support, that doesn't affect my existing devices; At the point I'd replace them, if FAT wasn't an option, that wouldn't really ruin my day at all. I don't run Windows, so interoperability with Windows isn't a concern of mine at all - I have no problem formatting an external drive or a thumb drive in an incompatible format for Windows.
If you *want* to ignore them, then you *can* ignore them. MSFT is not coming around door to door, confiscating your devices.
At that point the Linux people are free to ignore Microsoft, and roll their own Digital cameras, MP3 players, etc. which are compatible with Linux and which do not infringe on Microsoft's (or anybody else's) patents.
"I want / need to use the FAT filesystem," is not sufficient reason in the eyes of current law to allow you to violate patents. I agree that the patent system needs to be reformed, but as soon as you say, "IF the patent system worked the way I wanted it to," you have invalidated your legal argument.
Using a different filesystem format internally may make it difficult for these devices to interoperate with other operating systems, but there's no reason that FAT *must* be used on these devices. The choice of patent-encumbered FAT was a trade-off between perceived risk of lawsuit and benefits of interoperability with many other devices. Choosing to assume that risk means that you have to be prepared for the consequences if someone decides to make a stink.
What gets me is how Microsoft tried to exploit the situation by using it as a marketing opportunity. They should have been honest and stated the real reason they released the source under GPL to begin with.
What you (and pretty much everybody else in this thread) is hoping for is for Microsoft to self-flagellate - something along the lines of: "We're so bad, we suck, we fucked up beyond comprehension, we hope the GPL community can somehow find it in their hearts to not destroy us to the 10th generation. We're stupid-bad-wicked-naughty-horrible-ugly-halitosis-having troglodytes, we're going to commit mass suicide in the hopes that someday history will forget what terrible people we were." This is not going to happen.
No matter how you slice it, it's good for the GPL & open source. Either Microsoft has conceded that the GPL is legally enforceable and thus must be taken seriously, OR they have decided that they want to play ball with the open source kids, and are using this as the first step in a new direction towards working with open source developers & projects. You can win thoroughly while still allowing the loser to retain some shred of their dignity. Attempting to back Microsoft into a corner over this in an attempt for some silly "PR victory" would be counterproductive.
But of course, current_year++ always seems to be the year of the Linux Desktop... so perhaps counterproductive strategy is just the way open source rolls...
I should be free to completely ignore Microsoft if I want to.
How exactly are you not "free to ignore Microsoft if you want to"? I haven't bought a Microsoft product in about 3 years now, and haven't once felt like I was missing out on something. I have a perfectly capable computer system, digital camera, video camera, and personal media player at home with absolutely no Microsoft software on it and no Microsoft hardware in it. What exactly are you unable to ignore about them?
This is what seperates them from Ford, or McDonalds, or Campbells.
You're as free to ignore Microsoft as you are to ignore Ford, McDonald's, or Campbells. Buy a Honda. Eat at Burger King. Buy Progresso soup. Buy a Mac. Assemble a Linux system.
You're investing way too much of yourself in worrying about Microsoft. There is no nefarious secret plan in Redmond to destroy Jedidiah's computer.
You are modded down because you're a troll. You get few mod-ups because you're a troll. See the pattern?
you have nothing useful to contribute, so you get modded down as off-topic, troll, redundant, overrated, and every other -1 mod.
As far as your claim that I'm the one down-modding you, well, that's patently absurd, as my policy is to only mod people up - I ignore the posts (such as yours) that are obvious trolls, or who have nothing to add when I have mod points. I believe in putting my name behind my posts, because I have a good name. You hide behind the shield of an AC because you know you'd quickly be banned from Slashdot with your obnoxious trolling.
Come on APK, give it up. You're just typing random shit into a browser, none of it makes sense, and you're not convincing anybody. I notice in another thread you've been modded down as an off-topic troll pretty thoroughly, too - maybe I can start talking about how you're modded troll, offtopic, redundant, and all kinds of other nasty stuff, too, in an attempt to discredit your lame points?
Slashdot Mirror
I like how you gloss over that whole middle ground where, if you see a need for a device or other product that the market hasn't filled, you go into business and make a shitload of money filling that need.
These are the dirty little secrets that none of the "open and free" advocates want to admit to:
1) The "freedom" you're spouting off about is only valuable to a consumer if they have the technical expertise to take advantage of it. 90+% of people do not, and of the maybe 10% who do, a vanishingly small number of them actually care to spend their days hacking devices that already work.
2) You're lazy. If there was truly a vast demand for a "free" version of this product, you'd go into business and make a mint for yourself producing it. But you know in your hearts that what you're demanding is for - at best - a small niche / hobbyist market, so you take the safe route and bitch about Apple instead.
Are you sure a "promising feature set" translates to "solves a problem people actually have"? Or is your software a solution in search of a problem?
I would think that if you have a compelling solution to a real problem, you would be able to attract some new users and grow that community. If somebody else is already solving your problem successfully, think long and hard about whether or not your approach is different enough to warrant a new solution; if it is different enough, make your case to that software's community and see if any like-minded people are inclined to join your team. If it is not, then throw your weight behind the existing solution and help make that existing solution better.
Really? I thought everybody else on the net was a 1-dimensional character created by my subconscious desires for adulation.
Bring it up at lunch today or dinner tonight. See that pained look in your relatives', friends', and colleagues' eyes?
You know what that is?
Yeah?
That's them going, "Oh, god, not this "free software" Braveheart shit again."
Well, with 2 of you outraged, and numbers 3 and 4 soon to be outraged, I'd guess we just cut Ubuntu's market share by a good 10%, right?
Most people don't see a computer as a crusade for freedom, or an end in itself. They see it as a means for communicating with other people, listening to some music, getting some work done, and downloading a bit of porn on the odd quiet night they decide they want to tug one off. They don't really give 2 runny squirts of shit about their "freedom" to recompile the kernel or any other piece of their system because most people lack the specialized knowledge and skills required to take advantage of these "freedoms". Computers are an appliance (multi-functional, to be sure, but an appliance all the same) to the vast majority of computer users today.
While I salute your dedication to freedom as it applies to your hobby, spouting off here about what you intend to do about this incredible slight to your freedom is pretty pointless.
Doesn't much sound like you were on the Apple rollercoaster to begin with. But thanks for checking in to let us know you're not in their target demographic.
Yep, you're right, they're functionally identical, it's just the brand name that's different.
Because the Kindle also has GPS, Compass functionality, video capabilities, and thousands of other applications it can run from day 1.
Oh wait.
OHNOES, an anonymous coward on slashdot is going to "stop using Ubuntu" and "stop recommending it to family, friends, employer, etc." Looks like Ubuntu is done for.
Just when I was starting to believe that 2010 was the year of the Linux desktop, too. :(
I live in the Boston area, and back in 2001, I had several interviews in the San Diego area; Each time I flew out for an interview, the companies (3 of them) offered to (and did) reimburse me after I traveled for airfare, rental car & hotel stay. I had to make the arrangements myself, but all three of the companies cut me a check afterwards to reimburse me.
This is not an uncommon thing in my experience, and I'd be pretty hesitant about a company that would tell me, "Sure we'll consider you, just spend $1000 or so on travel out of your own pocket so we can see if we like you."
Yes, because requirements never change over time; runtime environments never change over time; business needs never change over time; the software that you installed 20 years ago should be good enough for you today, by god - because why would you install it at all if it didn't have the features you needed most?
FOSS projects say, "If any of that stuff changes, here's the source, go fix it yourself as technology, runtimes, and requirements change." This freedom is GREAT for technology-literate people. For a small plumbing business that wants to build a customer database and a web site, it makes no sense to hire a team of developers. And so they do the sensible and cost-effective thing: purchase commercial solutions, where somebody who has expertise in development builds and supports the software so they can focus on their area of expertise: Plumbing.
Whether it's a closed-source commercial product you're buying a copy of, or a FOSS project you're buying "support and consultation" for, the fact remains that "finish it yourself if you want" is not a viable option for a large cross-section of businesses, and so is not really a selling point in the eyes of those businesses. Technologists ignore or oversimplify this point frequently here on slashdot, and the blithe assumption that "anybody with half a brain can pick up the source code for MySQL and hammer out the DB features they need," always amuses.
You have clearly never played WoW, if you can make that statement with a straight face.
I'm having trouble parsing this statement. How does "highly frustrating" equate to "far friendlier" in your estimation?
I think they only come in black & white, don't they? Or did they start a new promotion with (RED)tm? :)
I'd add:
c) There should be a clear agenda ahead for the meeting ahead of time, set by the meeting organizer.
Often, meetings turn into "let's get together and bullshit for an hour about the project." Nothing that needs to be discussed with the team, no decisions or actions required as a result of the meeting. Just an hour because "we should do a status update." When we're already doing status updates via email or some other shared medium.
No, what I said is I haven't bought a Microsoft product in 3+ years. If you're declaring that "using a FAT filesystem" constitutes it being a Microsoft product, then does that mean every Linux distribution that implements this filesystem is also a Microsoft product?
Be careful with your stretches, they may lead you places you don't wish to go.
I'm not changing the subject, either, for what it's worth. This whole ridiculous line of thinking is that Microsoft is somehow out to get YOUR camera and mp3 player. So I asked you to please point out a single case where Microsoft has gone after a consumer for using a device which uses some sort of "unauthorized" FAT filesystem on it. You can't, but that doesn't stop the alarmist idiots from spouting off about how Microsoft is out to destroy every peripheral on earth.
Sure, just as soon as you can enlighten me with the case numbers of court actions that Microsoft has filed against individual users of cameras that use the FAT filesystem?
I'm not sure who you're referring to there, as I am neither a shill for Microsoft, nor affiliated with Microsoft in any way. As I already explained, I haven't bought a Microsoft product in at least 3 years, possibly a little longer, and am quite contentedly using all of the types of devices you named.
If "if's" and "but's" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a wonderful Christmas.
A court has disagreed with your assessment of VFAT - dislike that decision all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you may be sued if you infringe on their patent, and if you make business plans that open you up to a lawsuit, you should not be particularly surprised if one is leveled against you.
If you don't want to risk a lawsuit, you avoid infringing, even if you really really wish that the patent decision were different.
I've said elsewhere in this thread that I agree that the patent system needs an overhaul. But the fact of the matter is, the patent system today is the world we live in. While working for reform, you either take judicious risks knowing you may be sued, or you do your own (novel) thing and avoid the risk of a lawsuit.
I'm well aware of how postfix increment & decrement operators work, if that's what you're asking. But since I wasn't attempting to write syntactically correct & logically complete source code, I'm left wondering what your point is, other than to show off that you've taken a programming course somewhere along the way?
I just checked, and yep, I'm still ignoring them.
If they force other manufacturers to drop FAT support, that doesn't affect my existing devices; At the point I'd replace them, if FAT wasn't an option, that wouldn't really ruin my day at all. I don't run Windows, so interoperability with Windows isn't a concern of mine at all - I have no problem formatting an external drive or a thumb drive in an incompatible format for Windows.
If you *want* to ignore them, then you *can* ignore them. MSFT is not coming around door to door, confiscating your devices.
At that point the Linux people are free to ignore Microsoft, and roll their own Digital cameras, MP3 players, etc. which are compatible with Linux and which do not infringe on Microsoft's (or anybody else's) patents.
"I want / need to use the FAT filesystem," is not sufficient reason in the eyes of current law to allow you to violate patents. I agree that the patent system needs to be reformed, but as soon as you say, "IF the patent system worked the way I wanted it to," you have invalidated your legal argument.
Using a different filesystem format internally may make it difficult for these devices to interoperate with other operating systems, but there's no reason that FAT *must* be used on these devices. The choice of patent-encumbered FAT was a trade-off between perceived risk of lawsuit and benefits of interoperability with many other devices. Choosing to assume that risk means that you have to be prepared for the consequences if someone decides to make a stink.
What you (and pretty much everybody else in this thread) is hoping for is for Microsoft to self-flagellate - something along the lines of: "We're so bad, we suck, we fucked up beyond comprehension, we hope the GPL community can somehow find it in their hearts to not destroy us to the 10th generation. We're stupid-bad-wicked-naughty-horrible-ugly-halitosis-having troglodytes, we're going to commit mass suicide in the hopes that someday history will forget what terrible people we were." This is not going to happen.
No matter how you slice it, it's good for the GPL & open source. Either Microsoft has conceded that the GPL is legally enforceable and thus must be taken seriously, OR they have decided that they want to play ball with the open source kids, and are using this as the first step in a new direction towards working with open source developers & projects. You can win thoroughly while still allowing the loser to retain some shred of their dignity. Attempting to back Microsoft into a corner over this in an attempt for some silly "PR victory" would be counterproductive.
But of course, current_year++ always seems to be the year of the Linux Desktop... so perhaps counterproductive strategy is just the way open source rolls...
How exactly are you not "free to ignore Microsoft if you want to"? I haven't bought a Microsoft product in about 3 years now, and haven't once felt like I was missing out on something. I have a perfectly capable computer system, digital camera, video camera, and personal media player at home with absolutely no Microsoft software on it and no Microsoft hardware in it. What exactly are you unable to ignore about them?
You're as free to ignore Microsoft as you are to ignore Ford, McDonald's, or Campbells. Buy a Honda. Eat at Burger King. Buy Progresso soup. Buy a Mac. Assemble a Linux system.
You're investing way too much of yourself in worrying about Microsoft. There is no nefarious secret plan in Redmond to destroy Jedidiah's computer.
You are modded down because you're a troll. You get few mod-ups because you're a troll. See the pattern?
you have nothing useful to contribute, so you get modded down as off-topic, troll, redundant, overrated, and every other -1 mod.
As far as your claim that I'm the one down-modding you, well, that's patently absurd, as my policy is to only mod people up - I ignore the posts (such as yours) that are obvious trolls, or who have nothing to add when I have mod points. I believe in putting my name behind my posts, because I have a good name. You hide behind the shield of an AC because you know you'd quickly be banned from Slashdot with your obnoxious trolling.
Come on APK, give it up. You're just typing random shit into a browser, none of it makes sense, and you're not convincing anybody. I notice in another thread you've been modded down as an off-topic troll pretty thoroughly, too - maybe I can start talking about how you're modded troll, offtopic, redundant, and all kinds of other nasty stuff, too, in an attempt to discredit your lame points?
yawn. One trick ponies are boring.