So you're saying that unless I have a medical degree I can't state a fact that to practice medicine, a person needs to pass their boards and get licensed?
You should probably google "reductio ad absurdum".
this man has never been licensed, he has no credentials as an engineer other then having a degree in electrical engineering, but as I am sure you know a degree alone does not make you an engineer.
In Sweden, that degree is the license. He is licensed in Sweden if he does, in fact, hold that degree, and that is his engineering credential.
Where he earned his degree, the degree alone does make him an engineer. He was also clear about where he earned his degree and which specific field his degree covered; he also never claimed to be licensed by the state of Oregon, nor did he use either of the specific terms covered by Oregon's laws, nor did he attempt to practice as an engineer in Oregon without being licensed in that state.
In short, yes, he is an engineer and, based on the information presented in court filings, no, he did not violate Oregon's law regarding the use of the title. Of the licensing board left some detail that proves otherwise out of their filings, well, the court can not and should not consider that detail; effectively, those court filings represent the sum total of the facts of the case and those facts support the position that this man did not break the law.
While I do have a strong legal background, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. It would seem, though, that at least one Oregon judge agrees with this opinion, so maybe take it with half a grain of salt, rather than a whole one.
He has never taken any of the steps required to be licensed as an engineer in any jurisdiction
Except, you know, in Sweden, where he earned his degree and where earning an engineering degree is the sole step required to become a licensed engineer. Or does Sweden not hold jurisdiction over itself?
He never claimed to be an engineer licensed in the state of Oregon, he claimed to hold an electrical engineering degree in Sweden.
He studied engineering in Sweden, where your degree is your engineering credential. His studies resulted in a degree. Therefore he does, in fact, hold actual engineering credentials.
Why are you defending an electrical engineer who doesn't state that he is an electrical engineer while commenting on something outside his particular field of engineering?
Perhaps because he did state that he is an electrical engineer?
My Swedish engineering degree is in electronics and I’m an expert in motional feedback (displacement, velocity and acceleration feedback) of powered speakers which includes the full understanding of motion of an object such as a loudspeaker cone (or a vehicle stopping or traveling through an intersection as in ORS811.260(4)).
Sweden is in Canada now? When the hell did that happen? I need to get out from under this rock more... Or, maybe you need to work on understanding context.
Despite hating the atrocity that Firefox has become; it's sadly the best out of the other options; for my personal use case.
This I can't argue with. Let me guess, you use the developer tools? I find Chrome's developer tools lacking; likewise for IE/Edge and Safari, not that they're candidates for my daily-driver browser in the first place.
I had customers who followed me when I transferred to a new store (3 transfers at my own request because I moved), precisely for my "worthless" advice. Just because I had no problem putting parts in people's hands when that's what they were asking for, don't assume I didn't sell the bigger tickets as well; I was the only person in my district to sell the RCA 36" 4:3 HD monstrosity they sold back in the early 2000's before it was discontinued and clearance-priced. A lot of the advice I gave was on speaker placement (after I sold the speakers or, more likely, the entire hi-fi system or home theater) -- remember, setting up a sound system is a project, too. That was my job; at least, that's what their training and the monthly district meetings said my job was.
Oddly, for someone who didn't sell enough phones, I quite regularly won monthly district phone sales contests. I also routinely (by which I mean literally every month I worked for the company, starting at day one) had double the sales of the next best salesperson in my store; quite often, I outsold the rest of the store in aggregate. I wasn't just putting 49 cent resistors in peoples' hands and showing them the door, I was moving product.
My job was to stock shelves and serve customer needs; cell phone sales were bonus-driven, we got a $5 bonus for each. Selling a cell phone took 30 minutes, which could potentially yield $10 in bonus pay per hour were I to manage to sell 2 per hour; I could easily top that in raw sales commission, so that's what I did when there were more customers than employees in the store. I had no problem shoving a phone down someone's throat if we were slow, but it just didn't make sense to ignore or risk losing a $20 commission to chase a $5 bonus.
Oddly, for someone who didn't sell enough phones, I quite regularly won monthly district phone sales contests.
Firstly, the issue was not Eich's views, it was his actions. He actively tried to stop same sex marriages.
Do you really think executives at pretty much every corporation in the world don't act in support of their views? What's the point of having that power, if not to wield it? Most of them don't do it as openly and publicly as Eich did, but you can rest assured they all do it, and every single one of them holds at least one view you will disagree with.
Secondly, you seem to have a fairly extreme dislike of a wide range of views.
What gives you that impression? That I'm pointing out the folly of avoiding products and services simply because you disagree with the people who provide them? Again, everyone will hold at least one view you disagree with; the end result of applying that logic unilaterally (as logic should be applied) is that you don't buy anything, live anywhere, or work for anyone. It's irrational, and that was the point you missed.
Most people can put up a variety of views, especially if those people holding them don't actively try to enact policies that hurt them, and isn't in a position of power over them (e.g. their boss).
And most of them have no clue about the politics of the people running the companies they do business with; most oppression happens behind closed doors and out of public view. You can't just point at one public incident and say "well he's the only one doing it". They're all doing it, Eich is just the one dumb enough to get caught.
Once you understand the reality of this world, you learn to become tolerant of the actions of others, even when you disagree with them. Just stand taller than the bad actors and they lose any power they might have had.
Really, Eich's actions hurt nobody. They may have hurt a lot of peoples' feelings but, again, everyone is going to do something from time to time that will hurt a given individual or group. This is in no way a defense of Eich or his actions, I believe he was wrong, but his actions were not harmful. They could have been, if enough of society decided to side with him, but that did not happen.
Should he be chosen to head up a gay rights group? Probably not. But he shouldn't have been ousted from his position with Mozilla, either, as it had absolutely nothing to do with his views on gay rights, or his actions along those lines. Free speech is a cornerstone of American society; when your livelihood is at stake for speaking your mind about subjects completely unrelated to your work, you speech is not free. That's a problem.
Put another way (and I really do love saying this): Everyone has the right to be offended; who the hell am I to deny them that?
They did. I worked there for nearly 3 years, always had the highest sales in my store (typically more than the rest of my store combined), people cam to my store looking for me and when they'd move me to a new store, those customers would follow. Then, they shitcanned me because I wasn't selling enough phones.
It's not that they didn't hire knowledgeable people, it's that they treated them like shit and eventually cast them out despite their loyalty.
Those of us who were cast out by the place we grew up loving, well, we're getting the last laugh. It's bitter-sweet, because we did love the place and it's sad to see what it became before it died, but we're still here and RadioShack is not. Word is the district manager who fired me back in 2003 hasn't been able to find work since 2015; that does put a smile on my face, considering how it went down.
So... Your only complaint, then, is that Tweetdeck on FF is ugly? Because you can do those other things (and even share open tabs and history between devices) on FF, right now.
Port support for current HTML and CSS standards, the current javascript engine, and any security fixes back to FF 3.4, leaving behind all of the added bullshit that has accumulated over the years that nobody wanted. Boom, Chrome market share will shrink.
After that, work on nothing but bugfixes, performance improvement and, most importantly, proper multi-process support and Chrome will soon become that quaint browser that ships with Chromebooks (before Crouton and Firefox are installed) and Android devices (before Firefox is installed).
Indeed. When I'm using a browser, I don't care whether the CEO of the company that made it shares my political and religious views (if I did, I wouldn't use any browser); I care if the browser works. When Eich was running things, the browser worked.
Same goes for every product and service out there. If political and religious views mattered, I'm not sure who I'd buy land from, who I'd have build a house, who I'd buy a house from and, failing all of those things, who I'd rent from, so I'd be homeless. Of course, I'm not sure which appliance manufacturer's name I'd want on the box I'd be sleeping in, so I'd have to get a sleeping bag and, maybe a tent. Not sure who I'd let make those for me though, let alone which store I'd buy them from... or, for that matter, in which bank I'd keep the money used to buy things in the first place, or where I'd work to earn that money.
People who apply artificial importance to the political and religious leanings of others need to be forced to the logical conclusion of their ill-thought-out decision making skills so they can learn why it's a bad idea to let those things matter.
I have a framed copy of the SF Chronicle "LOVE WON" special edition; clearly I do not agree with Eich on that matter, but I'll be damned if he didn't lead a team that made a hell of a good browser. And that's what matters when selecting a browser vendor.
If this passes, my voicemail outgoing message will be changed to "If you're a marketer, please waste your time leaving a message. If you're someone I know, text me, email me, call me back, or wait for me to see the missed call; this box never gets checked now that voicemail has become nothing more than an ad platform."
If this shifts annoying marketing calls, which make our phones ring at inopportune times, to a less obtrusive and more easily ignored medium, we should welcome it.
Considering that I wasn't the one who brought the conversation to this topic, I was discussing what someone before me said; and now you're discussing what someone before you said. Pot, meet kettle.
A reversal? On Slashdot? I thought I was the only one who did that! No worries, we all miss things from time to time, it's just refreshing to see someone own up to it instead of jumping ship.
Slashdot Mirror
So you're saying that unless I have a medical degree I can't state a fact that to practice medicine, a person needs to pass their boards and get licensed?
You should probably google "reductio ad absurdum".
In the world of engineering, like in Law and Medicine, getting a degree does not automatically confer a title.
Except in Sweden, where he earned his degree.
this man has never been licensed, he has no credentials as an engineer other then having a degree in electrical engineering, but as I am sure you know a degree alone does not make you an engineer.
In Sweden, that degree is the license. He is licensed in Sweden if he does, in fact, hold that degree, and that is his engineering credential.
Where he earned his degree, the degree alone does make him an engineer. He was also clear about where he earned his degree and which specific field his degree covered; he also never claimed to be licensed by the state of Oregon, nor did he use either of the specific terms covered by Oregon's laws, nor did he attempt to practice as an engineer in Oregon without being licensed in that state.
In short, yes, he is an engineer and, based on the information presented in court filings, no, he did not violate Oregon's law regarding the use of the title. Of the licensing board left some detail that proves otherwise out of their filings, well, the court can not and should not consider that detail; effectively, those court filings represent the sum total of the facts of the case and those facts support the position that this man did not break the law.
While I do have a strong legal background, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. It would seem, though, that at least one Oregon judge agrees with this opinion, so maybe take it with half a grain of salt, rather than a whole one.
He has never taken any of the steps required to be licensed as an engineer in any jurisdiction
Except, you know, in Sweden, where he earned his degree and where earning an engineering degree is the sole step required to become a licensed engineer. Or does Sweden not hold jurisdiction over itself?
He never claimed to be an engineer licensed in the state of Oregon, he claimed to hold an electrical engineering degree in Sweden.
He studied engineering in Sweden, where your degree is your engineering credential. His studies resulted in a degree. Therefore he does, in fact, hold actual engineering credentials.
He claimed to be an electrical engineer which, as far as I can tell, is absolutely factual.
Why are you defending an electrical engineer who doesn't state that he is an electrical engineer while commenting on something outside his particular field of engineering?
Perhaps because he did state that he is an electrical engineer?
My Swedish engineering degree is in electronics and I’m an expert in motional feedback (displacement, velocity and acceleration feedback) of powered speakers which includes the full understanding of motion of an object such as a loudspeaker cone (or a vehicle stopping or traveling through an intersection as in ORS811.260(4)).
Sweden is in Canada now? When the hell did that happen? I need to get out from under this rock more... Or, maybe you need to work on understanding context.
I'm grabbing popcorn and waiting for someone to tell you that you don't understand the law... You know it's coming.
I'm clearing a 7 figure salary now, thanks. You don't need to know how.
Despite hating the atrocity that Firefox has become; it's sadly the best out of the other options; for my personal use case.
This I can't argue with. Let me guess, you use the developer tools? I find Chrome's developer tools lacking; likewise for IE/Edge and Safari, not that they're candidates for my daily-driver browser in the first place.
I had customers who followed me when I transferred to a new store (3 transfers at my own request because I moved), precisely for my "worthless" advice. Just because I had no problem putting parts in people's hands when that's what they were asking for, don't assume I didn't sell the bigger tickets as well; I was the only person in my district to sell the RCA 36" 4:3 HD monstrosity they sold back in the early 2000's before it was discontinued and clearance-priced. A lot of the advice I gave was on speaker placement (after I sold the speakers or, more likely, the entire hi-fi system or home theater) -- remember, setting up a sound system is a project, too. That was my job; at least, that's what their training and the monthly district meetings said my job was.
Oddly, for someone who didn't sell enough phones, I quite regularly won monthly district phone sales contests. I also routinely (by which I mean literally every month I worked for the company, starting at day one) had double the sales of the next best salesperson in my store; quite often, I outsold the rest of the store in aggregate. I wasn't just putting 49 cent resistors in peoples' hands and showing them the door, I was moving product.
My job was to stock shelves and serve customer needs; cell phone sales were bonus-driven, we got a $5 bonus for each. Selling a cell phone took 30 minutes, which could potentially yield $10 in bonus pay per hour were I to manage to sell 2 per hour; I could easily top that in raw sales commission, so that's what I did when there were more customers than employees in the store. I had no problem shoving a phone down someone's throat if we were slow, but it just didn't make sense to ignore or risk losing a $20 commission to chase a $5 bonus.
Oddly, for someone who didn't sell enough phones, I quite regularly won monthly district phone sales contests.
Elaborate?
Damn right, they can stop listening whenever they want. What they don't have the right to do is shut me up.
Firstly, the issue was not Eich's views, it was his actions. He actively tried to stop same sex marriages.
Do you really think executives at pretty much every corporation in the world don't act in support of their views? What's the point of having that power, if not to wield it? Most of them don't do it as openly and publicly as Eich did, but you can rest assured they all do it, and every single one of them holds at least one view you will disagree with.
Secondly, you seem to have a fairly extreme dislike of a wide range of views.
What gives you that impression? That I'm pointing out the folly of avoiding products and services simply because you disagree with the people who provide them? Again, everyone will hold at least one view you disagree with; the end result of applying that logic unilaterally (as logic should be applied) is that you don't buy anything, live anywhere, or work for anyone. It's irrational, and that was the point you missed.
Most people can put up a variety of views, especially if those people holding them don't actively try to enact policies that hurt them, and isn't in a position of power over them (e.g. their boss).
And most of them have no clue about the politics of the people running the companies they do business with; most oppression happens behind closed doors and out of public view. You can't just point at one public incident and say "well he's the only one doing it". They're all doing it, Eich is just the one dumb enough to get caught.
Once you understand the reality of this world, you learn to become tolerant of the actions of others, even when you disagree with them. Just stand taller than the bad actors and they lose any power they might have had.
Really, Eich's actions hurt nobody. They may have hurt a lot of peoples' feelings but, again, everyone is going to do something from time to time that will hurt a given individual or group. This is in no way a defense of Eich or his actions, I believe he was wrong, but his actions were not harmful. They could have been, if enough of society decided to side with him, but that did not happen.
Should he be chosen to head up a gay rights group? Probably not. But he shouldn't have been ousted from his position with Mozilla, either, as it had absolutely nothing to do with his views on gay rights, or his actions along those lines. Free speech is a cornerstone of American society; when your livelihood is at stake for speaking your mind about subjects completely unrelated to your work, you speech is not free. That's a problem.
Put another way (and I really do love saying this): Everyone has the right to be offended; who the hell am I to deny them that?
And you'd have gotten them if you walked into my store and did that. With a smile and an inquiry into your project, with advice where applicable.
I didn't last long... didn't sell enough phones.
Why didn't they hire knowledgeable people?
They did. I worked there for nearly 3 years, always had the highest sales in my store (typically more than the rest of my store combined), people cam to my store looking for me and when they'd move me to a new store, those customers would follow. Then, they shitcanned me because I wasn't selling enough phones.
It's not that they didn't hire knowledgeable people, it's that they treated them like shit and eventually cast them out despite their loyalty.
Those of us who were cast out by the place we grew up loving, well, we're getting the last laugh. It's bitter-sweet, because we did love the place and it's sad to see what it became before it died, but we're still here and RadioShack is not. Word is the district manager who fired me back in 2003 hasn't been able to find work since 2015; that does put a smile on my face, considering how it went down.
So... Your only complaint, then, is that Tweetdeck on FF is ugly? Because you can do those other things (and even share open tabs and history between devices) on FF, right now.
Port support for current HTML and CSS standards, the current javascript engine, and any security fixes back to FF 3.4, leaving behind all of the added bullshit that has accumulated over the years that nobody wanted. Boom, Chrome market share will shrink.
After that, work on nothing but bugfixes, performance improvement and, most importantly, proper multi-process support and Chrome will soon become that quaint browser that ships with Chromebooks (before Crouton and Firefox are installed) and Android devices (before Firefox is installed).
Indeed. When I'm using a browser, I don't care whether the CEO of the company that made it shares my political and religious views (if I did, I wouldn't use any browser); I care if the browser works. When Eich was running things, the browser worked.
Same goes for every product and service out there. If political and religious views mattered, I'm not sure who I'd buy land from, who I'd have build a house, who I'd buy a house from and, failing all of those things, who I'd rent from, so I'd be homeless. Of course, I'm not sure which appliance manufacturer's name I'd want on the box I'd be sleeping in, so I'd have to get a sleeping bag and, maybe a tent. Not sure who I'd let make those for me though, let alone which store I'd buy them from... or, for that matter, in which bank I'd keep the money used to buy things in the first place, or where I'd work to earn that money.
People who apply artificial importance to the political and religious leanings of others need to be forced to the logical conclusion of their ill-thought-out decision making skills so they can learn why it's a bad idea to let those things matter.
I have a framed copy of the SF Chronicle "LOVE WON" special edition; clearly I do not agree with Eich on that matter, but I'll be damned if he didn't lead a team that made a hell of a good browser. And that's what matters when selecting a browser vendor.
If this passes, my voicemail outgoing message will be changed to "If you're a marketer, please waste your time leaving a message. If you're someone I know, text me, email me, call me back, or wait for me to see the missed call; this box never gets checked now that voicemail has become nothing more than an ad platform."
If this shifts annoying marketing calls, which make our phones ring at inopportune times, to a less obtrusive and more easily ignored medium, we should welcome it.
Piss off, Alexander.
Considering that I wasn't the one who brought the conversation to this topic, I was discussing what someone before me said; and now you're discussing what someone before you said. Pot, meet kettle.
A reversal? On Slashdot? I thought I was the only one who did that! No worries, we all miss things from time to time, it's just refreshing to see someone own up to it instead of jumping ship.