So the engineer that helped the construction of the world's largest office buildings at the time hasn't a clue. While the NIST public servant engineers which can't lose their jobs short of murdering a colleague are the top minds and experts? Really?
You're working yourself into a corner here, but ok... about the plane, depends on the model. Most are about the same size, one 767 is 10 ft longer , and one 767 is 40 ft longer, according to a quick wikipedia lookup. They also fly quite slower than a 707. It's not the Concorde hitting the tower at Mach 2.
So, about the corner, what about building seven then? Carpet and office fires? Enough to get it to come down symmetrically? Look at what happened to the other buildings, no need to go to a Malaysia building collapse. That should be enough to tell you that something special happened to WTC 7.:-)
Gosh, haven't you people seen Ray? "Catch a lie, find a thief"? These guys have omitted WTC 7 for SEVEN YEARS on the grounds that 'oh, the loss of life was so great in the two towers, that we didn't think it was important'. Bullshit emotional plea argument. Don't worry about WTC 7, honor our heroes. C'mon...
Seeing as I'm not from the US, nor do I live there, what officials am I supposed to be obedient to? Am I an officialist who does what I'm told because I'm obedient to US authorities even though I'm not even anywhere near the country?
You're not obedient to an official, read my post again. You're obedient to what you're told. They said fire took them down, NIST are a bunch of engineers, therefore, NIST is guided by science, not the dept. of Commerce. Period.
Lots of steel buildings have collapsed due to fires in the past.
URL?
And then come the 'emotional plea' arguments, that have more to do with creationists than anything else. "Don't you respect the sacrifices of the firemen? Why are you so un-American? How can you BELIEVE the gov't would do something like that?"
Just check Penn & Teller's episode on conspiracy theories for something that was on TV, and try to attend a 'Truther' public demonstration and see what shit they get from near passerbys to 'support their troops' and other FOX news gibberish.
Right. Like creationists, we should ignore science and go with our own beliefs instead?
No. But NIST isn't on science's payroll, but the government's. A government that tried it's very best and succeeded in preventing any kind of independent, private investigation on the events of 9/11. I think it's fishy. If you don't, ok.
I don't smoke crack, I believe men landed on the moon and I think evolution is bullet-proof. See? Rational.:-)
It burned for almost a full day, _uncontrollably_ ( the firemen couldn't get water up to the hoses, they let it 'free burn' ) and did not topple.
The WTC towers burned for 1 hour and 1 hour and 40 minutes respectively. And the guy who worked in its construction and died in it, said it was built to withstand a 707 impact that flies at 600mph, although he said that he thought it could take more than one hit.
If you still believe the planes alone took them down, and, not even that, but just a plain fire took the WTC 7 down, there's nothing I can say that will ever change your mind.:-)
You forget that high-rise buildings are not constructed as to make it easier for a cosmic martial-artist to smack and break it, like the 'example' you mentioned.
There's a steel core, reduntant braces, supports. Not no easy to judo chop it now, champ.:-)
I don't care about winning any argument. Many people are smart, many are dumb. I don't consider myself particularly on any of those limits.
I'm agreeing with you that the government is dumb. I'd never use the 'you're evil' meme, that's what Penn & Teller used when they tried to debunk 9/11. That was just stupid and dishonest. And I love those guys.:)
What you forgot to mention was 'scared'. People were scared on that fateful day. And are still afraid today. And to believe that all that terror was in any way connected to the government that performed all those investigations on what happened is... well... scary. Scary things are hard to swallow, especially when presented with a sweeter alternative. Broadcast on all respectable media outlets.
Arguing with officialists is like arguing with creationists. They've already been told, it's a matter of obedience. The weird thing is having looked at the structural collapse of the towers, since the official version is jet fuel and conspiracy theory is demolition, from a straight scientific viewpoint I'd get the facts myself. Physically, building have catched fire, steel have expanded, seals have broken, and that gone on for more than one day and those much older buildings haven't collapsed. But that happened to the WTC. And both came down. Exactly the same. After burning an hour or so.
And then come the 'emotional plea' arguments, that have more to do with creationists than anything else. "Don't you respect the sacrifices of the firemen? Why are you so un-American? How can you BELIEVE the gov't would do something like that?"
Look, I'm the most pro-American chap you'll ever meet. But don't hide behind science. You're doing as you're told, no more, no less.
But that's the whole point. They aren't smart. It's obvious those towers got demolished. Put someone who's seen a demolition before and sees the towers topple WITHOUT seeing the planes hit it and they'll tell you "Wow, they imploded the WTC. Shame, I liked those towers". Like the WTC 7 toppled without a plane hitting it. And oh, exactly the same way. Hmmmmm....
Good god, it's been seven years. Why didn't they release this thing about the WTC 7 earlier? This is damage control and deep down you know it, you're just too terrified to acknowledge it.
Slashdot Mirror
So the engineer that helped the construction of the world's largest office buildings at the time hasn't a clue. While the NIST public servant engineers which can't lose their jobs short of murdering a colleague are the top minds and experts? Really?
You're working yourself into a corner here, but ok... about the plane, depends on the model. Most are about the same size, one 767 is 10 ft longer , and one 767 is 40 ft longer, according to a quick wikipedia lookup. They also fly quite slower than a 707. It's not the Concorde hitting the tower at Mach 2.
So, about the corner, what about building seven then? Carpet and office fires? Enough to get it to come down symmetrically? Look at what happened to the other buildings, no need to go to a Malaysia building collapse. That should be enough to tell you that something special happened to WTC 7. :-)
Gosh, haven't you people seen Ray? "Catch a lie, find a thief"? These guys have omitted WTC 7 for SEVEN YEARS on the grounds that 'oh, the loss of life was so great in the two towers, that we didn't think it was important'. Bullshit emotional plea argument. Don't worry about WTC 7, honor our heroes. C'mon...
Seeing as I'm not from the US, nor do I live there, what officials am I supposed to be obedient to? Am I an officialist who does what I'm told because I'm obedient to US authorities even though I'm not even anywhere near the country?
You're not obedient to an official, read my post again. You're obedient to what you're told. They said fire took them down, NIST are a bunch of engineers, therefore, NIST is guided by science, not the dept. of Commerce. Period.
Lots of steel buildings have collapsed due to fires in the past.
URL?
And then come the 'emotional plea' arguments, that have more to do with creationists than anything else. "Don't you respect the sacrifices of the firemen? Why are you so un-American? How can you BELIEVE the gov't would do something like that?"
Just check Penn & Teller's episode on conspiracy theories for something that was on TV, and try to attend a 'Truther' public demonstration and see what shit they get from near passerbys to 'support their troops' and other FOX news gibberish.
Right. Like creationists, we should ignore science and go with our own beliefs instead?
No. But NIST isn't on science's payroll, but the government's. A government that tried it's very best and succeeded in preventing any kind of independent, private investigation on the events of 9/11. I think it's fishy. If you don't, ok.
I don't smoke crack, I believe men landed on the moon and I think evolution is bullet-proof. See? Rational. :-)
a blowtorch can go from 2000 to 2800 celsius. jet fuel doesn't come close, and it only burned for the first 10 minutes after the impact.
Omg! You got modded troll too! Jesus shit. That's your answer! Damn slashdot....
I got modded troll too. I understand. :-)
So it burned controllably? Care to explain?
It burned for almost a full day, _uncontrollably_ ( the firemen couldn't get water up to the hoses, they let it 'free burn' ) and did not topple.
The WTC towers burned for 1 hour and 1 hour and 40 minutes respectively. And the guy who worked in its construction and died in it, said it was built to withstand a 707 impact that flies at 600mph, although he said that he thought it could take more than one hit.
If you still believe the planes alone took them down, and, not even that, but just a plain fire took the WTC 7 down, there's nothing I can say that will ever change your mind. :-)
Ok... trying again:
Interstate bank of LA three hours fire, five floors:
One Meridien Plaza, scorched for 18 hours.
That 56-story steel framed building in Venezuela burned for over 16 hours.
Yea? Check this
Windsor Tower
Now that made a whole fucking sense to me. Mod him insightful, please.
Can someone explain the above post for me? It got modded Insightful, but I can only make out gibberish.
1. Start me a demolition company that uses exclusively aviation grade fuel.
2. ???
3. profit!
You forget that high-rise buildings are not constructed as to make it easier for a cosmic martial-artist to smack and break it, like the 'example' you mentioned.
There's a steel core, reduntant braces, supports. Not no easy to judo chop it now, champ. :-)
Aicraft are tender thin and soft?
Humans are tender, thin and soft you insensitive clod!
Yea!
And this building steel's crystalline structure gotta have toppled it to the ground!!!
Oh wait. It didnt? And the fire completely engulfed it? And it burned for more than 20 hours longer than the WTC?
Gulp....
Frankly, this must be why Scientology and Intelligent Design has so many followers. Some people would feel and believe rather than think.
Ya, I'm sorry to see many people asking questions and only getting downmodded as 'Troll' as an answer.
Maybe people can come up with answers, they just don't like it. Think I should head over to Digg. :-)
I never said it wasn't. :-)
Profit doesn't just mean money. But I get ya. :P
I don't care about winning any argument. Many people are smart, many are dumb. I don't consider myself particularly on any of those limits.
I'm agreeing with you that the government is dumb. I'd never use the 'you're evil' meme, that's what Penn & Teller used when they tried to debunk 9/11. That was just stupid and dishonest. And I love those guys. :)
What you forgot to mention was 'scared'. People were scared on that fateful day. And are still afraid today. And to believe that all that terror was in any way connected to the government that performed all those investigations on what happened is... well... scary. Scary things are hard to swallow, especially when presented with a sweeter alternative. Broadcast on all respectable media outlets.
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/other_fires/other_fires.htm
Ok guys, no discussing about heat bending-steel and collapsing building here. Let's stick to the science.
People noticed. You just don't believe them.
That's all correct!
But that's not why they fell. ;-)
Arguing with officialists is like arguing with creationists. They've already been told, it's a matter of obedience. The weird thing is having looked at the structural collapse of the towers, since the official version is jet fuel and conspiracy theory is demolition, from a straight scientific viewpoint I'd get the facts myself. Physically, building have catched fire, steel have expanded, seals have broken, and that gone on for more than one day and those much older buildings haven't collapsed. But that happened to the WTC. And both came down. Exactly the same. After burning an hour or so.
And then come the 'emotional plea' arguments, that have more to do with creationists than anything else. "Don't you respect the sacrifices of the firemen? Why are you so un-American? How can you BELIEVE the gov't would do something like that?"
Look, I'm the most pro-American chap you'll ever meet. But don't hide behind science. You're doing as you're told, no more, no less.
But that's the whole point. They aren't smart. It's obvious those towers got demolished. Put someone who's seen a demolition before and sees the towers topple WITHOUT seeing the planes hit it and they'll tell you "Wow, they imploded the WTC. Shame, I liked those towers". Like the WTC 7 toppled without a plane hitting it. And oh, exactly the same way. Hmmmmm....
Good god, it's been seven years. Why didn't they release this thing about the WTC 7 earlier? This is damage control and deep down you know it, you're just too terrified to acknowledge it.
Yea, and a skyscraper below you that has not supposedly had it's center column demolished from the ground level tends to decelerate objects.