You read his later (1960 onward) books. Read his stuff prior to and including Moon is a Harsh Mistress. Podkayne Of Mars is a good place to start with his juvenalia work. Starship Troopers is another good one.
Thank you! That was the book I was thinking of. I remember reading Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars books when they first came out; he writes about an Islamic group on Mars - at the time it was kind of jarring, but post 9/11 (now that I'm far more aware of Islam) it seems perfectly reasonable.
Nope, there are Unix and Java interfaces for the app. You're just looking at the Excel version, which isn't the interesting part. It is the API that is the magic.
Wow, I completely disagree. I've read the series and it doesn't compare to other series for depressiveness (if I may coin a term), but is certainly well worth reading. Other recent series that (IMO) are more depressing: Butcher's Calderon series and of course the Hunger Games series.
But all these series read as television scripts - very little introspection from the characters, and very short chapters. As someone who is comfortable and actually enjoys reading old books these "made for TV" books are kind of a let-down.
Here's what I'm currently reading. It was the second best seller after Gone With The Wind, but today is virtually unknown.
Another excellent suggestion! Although I think Bank's Use of Weapons is far more depressing. I meant to write an Amazon review equating Use of Weapons to his non-SF The Steep Approach to Garbadale. Banks is an impressive writer.
Which I suggested.:-)
Related, a list of dystopian novels (example) would be fun. I didn't find that particular novel depressing enough to list in my prior post, but it is well written.
The thing about Brave New World was that there was an alternative place (island?) for the "rejects" to live, so IMO the protagonist should simply have moved there.
I used to write 1984 v. BNW compare/contrast essays in college for booze, and I maintain BNW was a much more optimistic world than 1984.
Back in my Fortune 100 days, I used to conduct technical interviews, and my "pool" was limited by what HR & manager sent me. Most often it was crap. I suspect this must have been caused by the salary range they were throwing out (which I had no control over). The fun part was, we hard to hire someone. So even though I thought they were all crap, I had to choose from that pool.
I love Joel's saying that A's hire A's, and B's hire C's, but in my case all I was given was D's.
Even better were the cases where the pool were H1-Bs brought in by IBM et al.
Huh? HFT works quite well with IB, at least it did back in 2005-2007, when I played around with SUNW and others via IB's API. Who does value trading anymore?
Replying to my own post... Reading all the entries thus far, I was all of a sudden struck by Terry Pratchett (not technically SF) - his later books have become depressing for a much different reason.
Orson Scott Card is quite the character (to phrase it politely). His handling of the Ender's Game series is astonishing, in the level of contempt he holds his readers -- when writing Ender in Exile he admitted he couldn't be bothered to reread Ender's Game to avoid plot inconsistencies.
I read the Foundation series when a teenager and thought it was pretty cool. I reread the first book a couple of years ago and couldn't believe what garbage it is. That was the first time I understood why so many held SF in contempt.
And yet, we've (United States) been at war for how long now? And how often do you see pictures of the burn victims in the military hospitals? And what is the incarceration rate in the US? How about mainstream media coverage of the Occupy movement?
Interesting discussion. I read the series numerous times when I was approx 10-14. I'd have to say it was a bittersweet ending, not depressing per se...
Now what is really depressing is the complete lack of progress in getting off the planet we've made since the story was written (ok, that's hyperbole) - since Challenger.
My books are packed up from a move, so this is from memory.
On The Beach
The Road (does that count as SF?)
While many will list 1984, I found his other work actually more depressing: Keep the Apidistra Flying and Coming Up For Air
Make Room, Make Room (kind of uncharacteristic for Harry Harrison)
Handmaid's Tale
Parable of the Sower & Parable of the Talents (I wish Octavia Butler had a) survived to write the third book b) was far more better known)
I'm not sure depressing is the word, but Harlan Ellison has written amazing stuff. IMO _Being John Malkovitch_ was a ripoff of one of his stories.
Finally, my google skills suck, but there's a relatively well known SF/mystery story written in the past 10 years where the premise is that Islam is now the dominant force in America. I found that pretty depressing. Anyone know what I'm remembering?
Lots of replies to your post! The bank collapse could have been contained had government enforced existing laws. There is/was a massive amount of fraud in the bubble, which the FBI was aware of at the time, as well as others who paid attention.. At the least, fraudulent loan applications could have been pursued. At a better level, bank/finance firms clearly misrepresented to investors about the underwriting standards when they sold the bundled products. We also have fraudulently signed and notarized documents on titles. So, lots of low hanging fruit in the real estate bubble.
The Federal Reserve has injected massive amounts of money into the system to try to contain the crash, and bubbles still persist. In the stock market, only chumps are getting prosecuted. The major players (Goldman Sachs and other HFT firms) are untouched.
The fine article states (on page 7): "The thing is, the SEC already has rules against placing orders not intended to be filled. Obviously, it doesn’t enforce them very well."
"The FBI significantly reduced its investigative efforts for fraudulent activity involving financial institutions (such as banks). Principally, the FBI scaled back its handling of lower dollar cases [SENSITIVE INFORMATION REDACTED]. We agree that the FBI must prioritize its investigations and first address the most egregious criminal activities. However, discussions with USAOs and analysis of USAO data revealed that no other federal agency has replaced the reduced FBI effort in this crime area. Therefore, an investigative gap exists for financial institution fraud (FIF), [SENSITIVE INFORMATION REDACTED]."
Michael Burry made billions (with a b) betting on the downfall of the CDO's. After writing an op-ed in the New York Times asking why the government (including the Federal Reserve) didn't see the same things he did, he was audited by the IRS.
So, again we're looking at a massive financial system where the rules are not being enforced.
Many HFTs will make near-simultaneous trades on different exchanges and profit because of the delay in one of the exchanges. An example will help me explain: let’s use the NASDAQ and EDGE exchanges, and say that ABC stock is trading at $1.00. The HFT will send a bunch of quotes (offers) to NASDAQ and EDGE, trying to sell ABC stock at $1.01. Once the NASDAQ order is accepted, the HFT can simultaneously cancel the $1.01 sell order on the EDGE exchange and replace it with a buy order at the original price of $1.00. EDGE immediately accepts that $1.00 order, because its system has not caught up to the new price of $1.01, and the HFT’s net position becomes zero. This is possible because of latency, which is jargon for delay in the system. The net result is, the HFT captures a $0.01 arbitrage. By scalping this tiny amount from many trades, the profits add up quickly
Let's repeat: the HFTs are putting orders on the system for which they have no intention of fulfilling. This is a violation of SEC rules, yet the SEC does nothing. There was an AC responder to my post who made a blanket denial cancellations were happening. Care to respond?
More interesting the is the tale of how Windows 3.11 did the DOS version check to determine if it was compatible, back around 1992 or so. I recall reading an analysis of how Windows managed to throw a nasty message if DR DOS was used instead of DOS. Apparently the Windows code was actually encrypted or something to obscure the hoops they were jumping through so that Microsoft could destroy DR DOS.
I'll repeat myself again - this is different because there is no expectation of actually completing the order on the part of the HFT algo. In the days of the telegraph, etc., the orders were placed with the expectation of them actually going through.
As a counter-example, what is the downside of forcing a trade to be open for five seconds before it can be cancelled?
Cancellation followed NYSE rules about trades involving movement over 30% (see announcement in the link at 14:57 ET 01 Aug 2012). Press coverage of this issue has, unsurprisingly, been abysmal. Even WSJ was downplaying it yesterday.
"Trades executed 30% or more above or below the NYSE/NYSE MKT opening price today between 09:30:00 a.m. and 10:15:00 a.m. ET will be busted."
Given that there were probably more significant losses in Pepsi, Wells Fargo, etc., it appears NYSE was actually following the rules.
On another topic, given MF Global and the other one, hopefully the cash at Knight (especially that owned by the pensions) is being very carefully monitored.
I read the PDF, and it does not appear to discuss the current behavior of HFT algos cancelling their trade microseconds after they have placed it, in violation of SEC rules.
This cancellation is extremely unfair to human traders.
Making a trade every millisecond isn't the issue - instead putting out an order and then cancelling it before it gets executed (in far less than a second) is where gaming occurs.
Slashdot Mirror
You read his later (1960 onward) books. Read his stuff prior to and including Moon is a Harsh Mistress. Podkayne Of Mars is a good place to start with his juvenalia work. Starship Troopers is another good one.
Thank you! That was the book I was thinking of. I remember reading Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars books when they first came out; he writes about an Islamic group on Mars - at the time it was kind of jarring, but post 9/11 (now that I'm far more aware of Islam) it seems perfectly reasonable.
Nope, there are Unix and Java interfaces for the app. You're just looking at the Excel version, which isn't the interesting part. It is the API that is the magic.
Wow, I completely disagree. I've read the series and it doesn't compare to other series for depressiveness (if I may coin a term), but is certainly well worth reading. Other recent series that (IMO) are more depressing: Butcher's Calderon series and of course the Hunger Games series.
But all these series read as television scripts - very little introspection from the characters, and very short chapters. As someone who is comfortable and actually enjoys reading old books these "made for TV" books are kind of a let-down.
Here's what I'm currently reading. It was the second best seller after Gone With The Wind, but today is virtually unknown.
Another excellent suggestion! Although I think Bank's Use of Weapons is far more depressing. I meant to write an Amazon review equating Use of Weapons to his non-SF The Steep Approach to Garbadale. Banks is an impressive writer.
Which I suggested. :-)
Related, a list of dystopian novels (example) would be fun. I didn't find that particular novel depressing enough to list in my prior post, but it is well written.
Also, an interesting post apocalypse online novel that certainly qualifies as depressing: http://starvationridge.blogspot.com/
The thing about Brave New World was that there was an alternative place (island?) for the "rejects" to live, so IMO the protagonist should simply have moved there.
I used to write 1984 v. BNW compare/contrast essays in college for booze, and I maintain BNW was a much more optimistic world than 1984.
Back in my Fortune 100 days, I used to conduct technical interviews, and my "pool" was limited by what HR & manager sent me. Most often it was crap. I suspect this must have been caused by the salary range they were throwing out (which I had no control over). The fun part was, we hard to hire someone. So even though I thought they were all crap, I had to choose from that pool.
I love Joel's saying that A's hire A's, and B's hire C's, but in my case all I was given was D's.
Even better were the cases where the pool were H1-Bs brought in by IBM et al.
Huh? HFT works quite well with IB, at least it did back in 2005-2007, when I played around with SUNW and others via IB's API. Who does value trading anymore?
Replying to my own post... Reading all the entries thus far, I was all of a sudden struck by Terry Pratchett (not technically SF) - his later books have become depressing for a much different reason.
Orson Scott Card is quite the character (to phrase it politely). His handling of the Ender's Game series is astonishing, in the level of contempt he holds his readers -- when writing Ender in Exile he admitted he couldn't be bothered to reread Ender's Game to avoid plot inconsistencies.
I read the Foundation series when a teenager and thought it was pretty cool. I reread the first book a couple of years ago and couldn't believe what garbage it is. That was the first time I understood why so many held SF in contempt.
Now, before you all start bashing me, let me say I remain a SF fan, but a pretty darn picky one. I blame John Gardner:
http://www.amazon.com/On-Writers-Writing-John-Gardner/dp/1582434948/
http://www.amazon.com/Moral-Fiction-Harper-Torchbook--5069/dp/0465052266/
And yet, we've (United States) been at war for how long now? And how often do you see pictures of the burn victims in the military hospitals? And what is the incarceration rate in the US? How about mainstream media coverage of the Occupy movement?
Interesting discussion. I read the series numerous times when I was approx 10-14. I'd have to say it was a bittersweet ending, not depressing per se...
Now what is really depressing is the complete lack of progress in getting off the planet we've made since the story was written (ok, that's hyperbole) - since Challenger.
Mod parent up!
Oh, excellent choice. I remember reading that decades ago.
Great topic, btw!
My books are packed up from a move, so this is from memory.
On The Beach
The Road (does that count as SF?)
While many will list 1984, I found his other work actually more depressing: Keep the Apidistra Flying and Coming Up For Air
Make Room, Make Room (kind of uncharacteristic for Harry Harrison)
Handmaid's Tale
Parable of the Sower & Parable of the Talents (I wish Octavia Butler had a) survived to write the third book b) was far more better known)
Ted Sturgeon has written many elegant depressing (some in fact heartbreaking) stories, including Saucer of Loneliness. There's an excellent series of his works (example here: http://www.amazon.com/Slow-Sculpture-Complete-Theodore-Sturgeon/dp/1556438346/) well worth reading.
I'm not sure depressing is the word, but Harlan Ellison has written amazing stuff. IMO _Being John Malkovitch_ was a ripoff of one of his stories.
Finally, my google skills suck, but there's a relatively well known SF/mystery story written in the past 10 years where the premise is that Islam is now the dominant force in America. I found that pretty depressing. Anyone know what I'm remembering?
Lots of replies to your post! The bank collapse could have been contained had government enforced existing laws. There is/was a massive amount of fraud in the bubble, which the FBI was aware of at the time, as well as others who paid attention.. At the least, fraudulent loan applications could have been pursued. At a better level, bank/finance firms clearly misrepresented to investors about the underwriting standards when they sold the bundled products. We also have fraudulently signed and notarized documents on titles. So, lots of low hanging fruit in the real estate bubble.
The Federal Reserve has injected massive amounts of money into the system to try to contain the crash, and bubbles still persist. In the stock market, only chumps are getting prosecuted. The major players (Goldman Sachs and other HFT firms) are untouched.
The fine article states (on page 7): "The thing is, the SEC already has rules against placing orders not intended to be filled. Obviously, it doesn’t enforce them very well."
http://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=456724 is a nice PDF from where on page 126 we read:
"The FBI significantly reduced its investigative efforts for fraudulent activity involving financial institutions (such as banks). Principally, the FBI scaled back its handling of lower dollar cases [SENSITIVE INFORMATION REDACTED]. We agree that the FBI must prioritize its investigations and first address the most egregious criminal activities. However, discussions with USAOs and analysis of USAO data revealed that no other federal agency has replaced the reduced FBI effort in this crime area. Therefore, an investigative gap exists for financial institution fraud (FIF), [SENSITIVE INFORMATION REDACTED]."
This is also found at http://www.justice.gov/oig/reports/FBI/a0537/chapter13.htm
Michael Burry made billions (with a b) betting on the downfall of the CDO's. After writing an op-ed in the New York Times asking why the government (including the Federal Reserve) didn't see the same things he did, he was audited by the IRS. So, again we're looking at a massive financial system where the rules are not being enforced.
I am a big fan of Interactive Brokers - while their desktop app is pretty cool, the API is what makes them truly outstanding: http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/p.php?f=programInterface&p=guide-default
To repeat my comments from just a few days ago , the fine article states on page 4:
Many HFTs will make near-simultaneous trades on different exchanges and profit because of the delay in one of the exchanges. An example will help me explain: let’s use the NASDAQ and EDGE exchanges, and say that ABC stock is trading at $1.00. The HFT will send a bunch of quotes (offers) to NASDAQ and EDGE, trying to sell ABC stock at $1.01. Once the NASDAQ order is accepted, the HFT can simultaneously cancel the $1.01 sell order on the EDGE exchange and replace it with a buy order at the original price of $1.00. EDGE immediately accepts that $1.00 order, because its system has not caught up to the new price of $1.01, and the HFT’s net position becomes zero. This is possible because of latency, which is jargon for delay in the system. The net result is, the HFT captures a $0.01 arbitrage. By scalping this tiny amount from many trades, the profits add up quickly
Let's repeat: the HFTs are putting orders on the system for which they have no intention of fulfilling. This is a violation of SEC rules, yet the SEC does nothing. There was an AC responder to my post who made a blanket denial cancellations were happening. Care to respond?
More interesting the is the tale of how Windows 3.11 did the DOS version check to determine if it was compatible, back around 1992 or so. I recall reading an analysis of how Windows managed to throw a nasty message if DR DOS was used instead of DOS. Apparently the Windows code was actually encrypted or something to obscure the hoops they were jumping through so that Microsoft could destroy DR DOS.
According to the law, illegal aliens are entitled to Social Security if they have paid into the system. https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS21732.pdf
I'll repeat myself again - this is different because there is no expectation of actually completing the order on the part of the HFT algo. In the days of the telegraph, etc., the orders were placed with the expectation of them actually going through.
As a counter-example, what is the downside of forcing a trade to be open for five seconds before it can be cancelled?
Cancellation followed NYSE rules about trades involving movement over 30% (see announcement in the link at 14:57 ET 01 Aug 2012). Press coverage of this issue has, unsurprisingly, been abysmal. Even WSJ was downplaying it yesterday.
http://markets.nyx.com/nyse/trader-updates/view/11183
"Trades executed 30% or more above or below the NYSE/NYSE MKT opening price today between 09:30:00 a.m. and 10:15:00 a.m. ET will be busted."
Given that there were probably more significant losses in Pepsi, Wells Fargo, etc., it appears NYSE was actually following the rules.
On another topic, given MF Global and the other one, hopefully the cash at Knight (especially that owned by the pensions) is being very carefully monitored.
I read the PDF, and it does not appear to discuss the current behavior of HFT algos cancelling their trade microseconds after they have placed it, in violation of SEC rules.
This cancellation is extremely unfair to human traders.
Making a trade every millisecond isn't the issue - instead putting out an order and then cancelling it before it gets executed (in far less than a second) is where gaming occurs.