Once upon a time, Digital Research wrote a nifty little OS called CP/M. They then extended it to run multiple instances of CP/M on the same box - Concurrent CP/M. Then, they updated it to handle MS-DOS 3.0 calls, C-DOS. Then they updated it with better memory management, better MS-DOS support (3.11 calls) and even came out with a single-instance version most of us remember as DR-DOS. (see also Caldera)
Long story short, DR got bought by Novell, who didn't want M-DOS. They sold it to three companies, one in Europe, one in the U.S., and one in Australia. Those groups were free to tweak and innovate, and charge for support.
Last I heard, the European group had made some damn good improvements, and were gaining market share there and in the U.S. while the U.S. group were just sucking wind.
Long story short, there are precedents for the type of split MS really needs - MS-OS-1, MS-OS-2, MS-OS-3, MS-Apps-1, MS-Apps-2, MS-Apps-3, MS-Inet-1, MS-Inet-2, MS-Inet-3, etc.
(ooops! I forgot -- IE is part of the OS. *slaps forehead*)
Nail-->head. Who's to say that MS-OS.com won't decide "Hell, Unix has the vi word processor, we've got the MS-Word word processor, they're both part of the operating system" or (shudder) MS-SW.com won't decide the same thing...(i.e. Word 2001 as the operating system - everything's a Word doc)
I also programmed for its' progenitors, DR-M-DOS, C-DOS, and C-CP/M.
We used to cram a complete POS application into one "window", a transaction processing application into a second, and a CD-ROM based (1x Mitsui boxes) database into a third on 386sx boxes with 4mb RAM.
Try THAT with Windows!
There is no doubt in my mind that MS knew DR-DOS was better, cleaner, faster. Their only "ace" was that Windows 3.0 had gained consumer acceptance, and 3.1 was really taking off.
(OT - anyone else remember the other GUI windowers?)
Long story short, MS knew they were SOL if they couldn't compete, so they rigged the app (Windows) to give a message that, while techs knew was bogus, managers would freak out over. Then they cobbled together memory management, stole (Stacker) disk compression, and released way before any self-respecting Quality Assurance person should have let them...and the result was MS-DOS 5.
Well, close enough. There are actually at least half a dozen transactions CCVS can run. A few are "Query", "Authorize Reserve", "Cancel Reserve", etc.
Online, you don't just swipe the card and get the cash.
You get the card number, then query the bank "Can user xyzzy afford $35,000.00 from www.newtoyota.com?"
If yes, then you "reserve" $35,000.00 and send a message into your internal system that this order has been "authorized".
Once the order has actually shipped, you go back and issue the charge against your "reserved" sum.
In the event you can't ship and Mija Cat cancels his order for a new Toyota Tundra (extended cab in catnip green) you have to issue a "reserve cancel".
Remember, since you're dealing with delayed shipment, you get into really legally weird areas if you "charge" before delivering "goods and or services".
Of course, that's more detail than you may have needed...
The corp only cares about one thing, $$$$$. The corp can take over part of your house, and not pay (or pay very little) for the taxes, the electricity, the water, the soap in the loo, etc.
If they have to pay for ergo desks and inspectors to make sure they're set up and used correctly etc, then there's less motivation for them to send workers home.
For essentially all office jobs today, cheap off-the-shelf hardware does just fine. Same form factor as found in the office; and for most cost-sane companies, it may even be the same hardware. Particularly if augmented by fancy backends at the office to do stuff like crunch numbers, run simulations, and so on.
Dell (and I presume others) offer to let a company "sell" Dell product to employees at the corporate rate. The goal is obviously to have Tim the LAN guy buy a Dell for home that matches his Dell at the office.
That said, I agree with Intel on this one...the more box, the better!
City of Chicago requires anything electrical to be in steel conduit, it's a fire code issue.
The 'burbs are much more liberal, I once lived in a house where all the wiring was plastic-clad cable (Romex knock-off) run through holes drilled in the studs.
The target audiences of DVD are: You. Your non-technical friends/family/cow-orkers. Hardware manufacturers
We took delivery of a little HP 9000 server, no video card whatsoever. What's it got? DVD! Why? So HP can (in a year or two) cram 10x the data on a disk, and stop sending out so many!
You refusing to buy a copy of Star Trek won't help...but if you feel strongly about it, send me a list of what you've got and I'll make you an offer.
Spin won't work unless it's something already in use heavily.
Think about it. I, Mija of Borg, take the GIMP and "extend" it.
Unless my extension is damn good, none of the current users will move to it. And if it is that good, then the GIMP maintainers will be spurred to reverse-engineer it.
< Sure, Linux "could", Solaris "could", BSD < "could"...NT did. One more case study < where NT is better than the competition that < will not be belived by the Linux zealots. Oh we'll believe it allright. We'll also improve Linux to where it could pass said certification. < I suppose the government is actually paid off < by Microsoft and that's really how they got < the rating, right? Right on the money, actually. To achieve a security rating, you have to submit to all kinds of poking and proding, paid for by the person or organization applying for the rating. So, in a manner of speaking, yes M$ did pay off the gov't. I believe this is why Linux won't achieve C2 rating in the near future. No companies have the spare $$$$ and see enough advantage in the certification to get it done.
Point seen...and you're right. It lets IBM customers leverage existing hardware under long-term contracts and existing staff to do new "internet" stuff without screwing over the existing business applications.
And as someone else said, with SAP (et al) announcing Linux versions, it makes a very nice way to transition from a proprietary mainframe application to a new proprietary but externally supported SAP application.
Read the fine print on that OS/390 Unix, and you find that very few applications support it.
So, while it's there, AOYC Inc.'s business applications won't run on it, so you end up buying AIX which AOYC have ported to and either running a dual shop (RS-6k + S/390) or you ditch the S/390 which is a big revenue loss for IBM.
That companies like AOYC (and SAP and JDE and Oracle etc.) have mentioned Linux means a massive cost savings to shops, and a massive preserved revenue stream for big blue.
First, I am not a mainframer. Never was, never will be. I'm allergic to COBOL. That aside, I've worked with many former mainframers, and heard some of their war stories.
Apparently, that OS/390 was written (well, rewritten) was a selling point. IBM had problems before with an OS port (not sure when, just heard rumblings) that was either slower on the new hardware, or crashed on the new hardware or something bad.
So, for OS/390, they decided to rewrite it (re-code, re-optimize, etc.) in toto for the S/390 hardware.
Yes, they will happen, but consider the forces that will have to be in place for that to happen.
First, there must be an insanely popular platform that Linux just cannot adapt to (quantum? bio? nano?) followed by that technology being adapted from whatever its' first niche is into whatever Linuxs' "master" niche is at that time. (Web servers? Embedded (alaCrusoe)?)
So yes, it may happen. Or perhaps we'll just clone Linus and use him to run the BioLinux distro...
So I could take my X-Tablet (9"x12" would be about the right size, use touch-screen to do the pointer bit and the handwriting-recognition) in the sunny window, to the catbox, even out in the yard with the squirrels.
Then just bring up Netscape, and I've got Slashdot, the magazine (latest edition) whenever I want.
Yes, I want that in my stocking this year as well!
Slashdot Mirror
Once upon a time, Digital Research wrote a nifty little OS called CP/M. They then extended it to run multiple instances of CP/M on the same box - Concurrent CP/M.
Then, they updated it to handle MS-DOS 3.0 calls, C-DOS.
Then they updated it with better memory management, better MS-DOS support (3.11 calls) and even came out with a single-instance version most of us remember as DR-DOS. (see also Caldera)
Long story short, DR got bought by Novell, who didn't want M-DOS. They sold it to three companies, one in Europe, one in the U.S., and one in Australia. Those groups were free to tweak and innovate, and charge for support.
Last I heard, the European group had made some damn good improvements, and were gaining market share there and in the U.S. while the U.S. group were just sucking wind.
Long story short, there are precedents for the type of split MS really needs - MS-OS-1, MS-OS-2, MS-OS-3, MS-Apps-1, MS-Apps-2, MS-Apps-3, MS-Inet-1, MS-Inet-2, MS-Inet-3, etc.
For collusion, you first need two seperate entities, which you don't have today.
Meow
(ooops! I forgot -- IE is part of the OS. *slaps forehead*)
Nail-->head.
Who's to say that MS-OS.com won't decide "Hell, Unix has the vi word processor, we've got the MS-Word word processor, they're both part of the operating system" or (shudder) MS-SW.com won't decide the same thing...(i.e. Word 2001 as the operating system - everything's a Word doc)
Sure it's bull. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen.
Meow
Heh.
Never tried Linux on a Dell, but did run NT and SCO Unix on their servers, and a hell of a lot of Win95 workstations.
Of the lot, the SCO Unix install was the smoothest.
Meow.
I used DR-DOS.
I also programmed for its' progenitors, DR-M-DOS, C-DOS, and C-CP/M.
We used to cram a complete POS application into one "window", a transaction processing application into a second, and a CD-ROM based (1x Mitsui boxes) database into a third on 386sx boxes with 4mb RAM.
Try THAT with Windows!
There is no doubt in my mind that MS knew DR-DOS was better, cleaner, faster. Their only "ace" was that Windows 3.0 had gained consumer acceptance, and 3.1 was really taking off.
(OT - anyone else remember the other GUI windowers?)
Long story short, MS knew they were SOL if they couldn't compete, so they rigged the app (Windows) to give a message that, while techs knew was bogus, managers would freak out over. Then they cobbled together memory management, stole (Stacker) disk compression, and released way before any self-respecting Quality Assurance person should have let them...and the result was MS-DOS 5.
Meow
Definitely! Try plain (not Jell-o(tm)gelatin sometime if you can't get your hands on these packing peanuts.
Meow
No, no no no no!
Companies cannot go back to the 19th century. The first one that tried it would be sued into oblivion.
Work the puzzle. If company X decided to make 1000 little sweatshops, where would they find 1000 employees to staff 'em?
The economy is too damn good for anyone to be willing to work in an uncomfortable (read ergonomic) environment.
Now, if the Y2K bug had taken out Wall Street, you'd have a case...
Meow
Well, close enough. There are actually at least half a dozen transactions CCVS can run. A few are "Query", "Authorize Reserve", "Cancel Reserve", etc.
Online, you don't just swipe the card and get the cash.
You get the card number, then query the bank "Can user xyzzy afford $35,000.00 from www.newtoyota.com?"
If yes, then you "reserve" $35,000.00 and send a message into your internal system that this order has been "authorized".
Once the order has actually shipped, you go back and issue the charge against your "reserved" sum.
In the event you can't ship and Mija Cat cancels his order for a new Toyota Tundra (extended cab in catnip green) you have to issue a "reserve cancel".
Remember, since you're dealing with delayed shipment, you get into really legally weird areas if you "charge" before delivering "goods and or services".
Of course, that's more detail than you may have needed...
Meow
You missed it completely Orb. Watch and learn.
The corp only cares about one thing, $$$$$.
The corp can take over part of your house, and not pay (or pay very little) for the taxes, the electricity, the water, the soap in the loo, etc.
If they have to pay for ergo desks and inspectors to make sure they're set up and used correctly etc, then there's less motivation for them to send workers home.
Meow.
For essentially all office jobs today, cheap off-the-shelf hardware does just fine. Same form factor as found in the office; and for most cost-sane companies, it may even be the same hardware. Particularly if augmented by fancy backends at the office to do stuff like crunch numbers, run simulations, and so on.
Dell (and I presume others) offer to let a company "sell" Dell product to employees at the corporate rate. The goal is obviously to have Tim the LAN guy buy a Dell for home that matches his Dell at the office.
That said, I agree with Intel on this one...the more box, the better!
Meow
Anything like Chicago's U.S. Science and Surplus?
City of Chicago requires anything electrical to be in steel conduit, it's a fire code issue.
The 'burbs are much more liberal, I once lived in a house where all the wiring was plastic-clad cable (Romex knock-off) run through holes drilled in the studs.
Meow
ITYM blinders, not blinkers.
HTH
Happy Y2K, humans!
Meow
Won't help.
The target audiences of DVD are:
You.
Your non-technical friends/family/cow-orkers.
Hardware manufacturers
We took delivery of a little HP 9000 server, no video card whatsoever. What's it got? DVD! Why? So HP can (in a year or two) cram 10x the data on a disk, and stop sending out so many!
You refusing to buy a copy of Star Trek won't help...but if you feel strongly about it, send me a list of what you've got and I'll make you an offer.
Meow.
P.S. 'The Matrix' looks GREAT on DVD.
Works for my human.
I spent September's catnip budget on a trackball for it, and it's been much happier since.
Meow
Spin won't work unless it's something already in use heavily.
Think about it. I, Mija of Borg, take the GIMP and "extend" it.
Unless my extension is damn good, none of the current users will move to it.
And if it is that good, then the GIMP maintainers will be spurred to reverse-engineer it.
This simply isn't a real threat.
Meow
Which means, of all the server vendors, only Compaq saw fit to get their kit evaulated.
< Sure, Linux "could", Solaris "could", BSD < "could"...NT did. One more case study < where NT is better than the competition that < will not be belived by the Linux zealots.
Oh we'll believe it allright. We'll also improve Linux to where it could pass said certification.
< I suppose the government is actually paid off < by Microsoft and that's really how they got < the rating, right?
Right on the money, actually.
To achieve a security rating, you have to submit to all kinds of poking and proding, paid for by the person or organization applying for the rating.
So, in a manner of speaking, yes M$ did pay off the gov't.
I believe this is why Linux won't achieve C2 rating in the near future. No companies have the spare $$$$ and see enough advantage in the certification to get it done.
Point seen...and you're right. It lets IBM customers leverage existing hardware under long-term contracts and existing staff to do new "internet" stuff without screwing over the existing business applications.
And as someone else said, with SAP (et al) announcing Linux versions, it makes a very nice way to transition from a proprietary mainframe application to a new proprietary but externally supported SAP application.
Meow
Ah. You'd think that.
Read the fine print on that OS/390 Unix, and you find that very few applications support it.
So, while it's there, AOYC Inc.'s business applications won't run on it, so you end up buying AIX which AOYC have ported to and either running a dual shop (RS-6k + S/390) or you ditch the S/390 which is a big revenue loss for IBM.
That companies like AOYC (and SAP and JDE and Oracle etc.) have mentioned Linux means a massive cost savings to shops, and a massive preserved revenue stream for big blue.
Meow.
First, I am not a mainframer. Never was, never will be. I'm allergic to COBOL. That aside, I've worked with many former mainframers, and heard some of their war stories.
Apparently, that OS/390 was written (well, rewritten) was a selling point. IBM had problems before with an OS port (not sure when, just heard rumblings) that was either slower on the new hardware, or crashed on the new hardware or something bad.
So, for OS/390, they decided to rewrite it (re-code, re-optimize, etc.) in toto for the S/390 hardware.
Meow.
The end of Linux, do you mean?
The end of Open Source?
Yes, they will happen, but consider the forces that will have to be in place for that to happen.
First, there must be an insanely popular platform that Linux just cannot adapt to (quantum? bio? nano?) followed by that technology being adapted from whatever its' first niche is into whatever Linuxs' "master" niche is at that time. (Web servers? Embedded (alaCrusoe)?)
So yes, it may happen. Or perhaps we'll just clone Linus and use him to run the BioLinux distro...
Meow
So I could take my X-Tablet (9"x12" would be about the right size, use touch-screen to do the pointer bit and the handwriting-recognition) in the sunny window, to the catbox, even out in the yard with the squirrels.
Then just bring up Netscape, and I've got Slashdot, the magazine (latest edition) whenever I want.
Yes, I want that in my stocking this year as well!
I read it as someone trying to claim anti-spam cred, then a load of anti-gov't rhetoric, followed by the tired and unworkable "tag all spam" troll.
Your impression was, apaprently, different. I can see how you reached your conclusion, but I stand by mine - it was a troll.
Meow.
That would explain why the DMA never liked SafeEPS, the global opt-out list CAUCE "supports".