Well, Computer City in Canada is now owned by Future Shop(though Future Shop says they are going to keep all Computer City locations open).
They even have a website that's been unders construction for two years now(when I worked there... or was it three years...). Pretty sad. Things sure went down since I left, yesssir.;-)
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
all this time I've been using ALT+F4 (to quit) without any extra bending
Unless you have unusually long fingers, F4 is still quite a stretch. I urge you to try putting your thumb(of your left hand) on the ALT key and just let your hand relax and rest on the keyboard. Look where your middle and index fingers are: right on or next to the Q and W keys(ALT Q for quitting apps, ALT W FOR closing windows - both different actions in MacOS). Your results will vary of course, but in general, I'm sure you'll find yourself right in that area. No stretching at all. Also, if positioned properly, third finger is right on the tab key(ALT-tab was for switching apps). The number of possible combos just in that area is astounding. ALT-a for select all, ALT-C for copy, ALT-x for cut, ALT-v for paste (admittedly the most awkward of the combos), ALT-s for save etc. I'm sorry, but ALT-F4 is still an uncomfortable stretch.
I also note that you only provided one example that you thought wasn't bad. One counter-example by no means demonstrates equivalence in terms of efficiency between whatever interface you're using and MacOS.
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
That may be a major issue in this. I admit I have the god-awful-and-pointless 'Windows key' between my ALT and CTRL keys, so it's more awkward for me than others I'm sure. But still, the ALT key is MUCH more comfortable once you adapt. Unfortunately, changing key bindings in KDE doesn't affect GTK apps and vice versa. The two camps should definitely work something out in that regard.
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
The only problem with that is feedback. It's very convenient for quick app launches, but if something segfaults you can't tell(except for the obvious fact that it doesn't open). -----
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
I would hardly call the MacOS interface "elegant,"
I would call it exactly that. See, people nowadays just don't get it with GUI's. The point of a GUI is not to make everyone happy. You have some pet peeve about with menus at the top of the screen. Who cares? Should the world be condemned to menu bars being contained within windows ala Windows? I've used alot of different interfaces(BeOS,GTK based desktops,KDE,QNX,Windows95/98/ME/NT4.0/2k, MacOS 6.x/7.x/8.x/9.x) and the Macintosh interface(while maybe not THE most intuitive) is certainly the most efficient.
The point of a GUI is to make it intuitive and quick to perform whatever it is you want to do. Of any interface I have ever used, the Macintosh interface allowed me to whatever it is I needed to do at an incredible speed once I got used to it(which didn't take long at all). The key combos were nicely laid out on the keyboard. Not like in Windows and linux where I need an CTRL+Q to quit, so my thumb has to bend awkardly while another finger reaches up to hit Q. It was COMMAND+Q, and the COMMAND key was nicely placed roughly where the ALT key is now. I could rest my hand nicely on the side of the keyboard with my thumb on the COMMAND key and I wouldn't have to move it every combo uses that key in conjunction with another key conveniently within a finger's distance.
My hands could fly across the keyboard as I used key combos in conjunction with the mouse. Folders opened, windows popped up, items selected, moved, copied, windows closed, applications swapped, window focused changed all with barely a movement of the mouse. I could do it all in the blink of an eye. People watching me could not keep up with what I was doing; they were completely bewildered. That's power.
So why don't YOU call ME when you have an interface that allows me to work as quickly and efficiently as I could on my Mac. BTW, I'm currently writing this on an Athlon Linux box, so don't just shrug me off as another Mac zealot; I KNOW what I'm talking about.
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
If we're lucky, everyone reverts to tableless pages with grey backgrounds.
Completely unnecessary. My Site is fine with tables. It's not exactly beautiful, but that's mostly because I've kept the graphics down to a minimum(DSL connection == not exceptionally fast on upstream).
My site full HTML 4.01 compliant(almost XHTML 1.0), it renders perfectly in every browser I have available(including lynx!). I just haven't tried with it IE(no Windows installation), though I'm sure it renders fine too.
If any of you are using IE, check out the site and let me know if it's ok! I'll cower in fear now and hope this relatively obscure posting doesn't slashdot my site.
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
Do you really mean to argue that learning to carry the one and add decimals to divide out the remainder are really prerequisites for understanding higher maths?
Actually, I think it is extremely relevant. When you deal with maths on paper and in your head you develop a conceptual understanding of problems and mathematical properties. Then when you get to higher maths, you have this intuitive understanding of the underlying principles.
'Like what?' you may ask? How about the limit of infinite sums, the building block of integration? A simple sum repeated (countably) infinite times. I'll bet that most kids taught to do math on calculators will just ask, 'how do I punch that in?' because they have little intuitive understanding of addition. You really can't just plug that in a calc. Calculators just aren't flexible enough to do any integral you need(although some calcs can do some integrals using approximations). But your brain is flexible, and can process that kind of information.
Believe me, I know because I see this problem all the time: I'm an Engineering student. You wouldn't believe the number of mathematically clueless people here; and these are some of the (supposedly) brightest ones too. Thank god for modelling software because if these people had to calculate things themselves, we'd all be in the shitter pretty quick. Ok, I'm exagerrating just a bit, but the problem does exist and it'll only get worse if kids can't even perform simple addition in their heads.
You mention that analytic skills are the important ones, and you're right. But to be perfectly honest, math is analytical. People who can't do simple math, can't do complex math. It's as simple as that.
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
If you have some element with HCL as a constituent unit and then you remove the HCL, what happens? The two become chemically different. If two things are chemically different, then they are not the same.
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
So I forget some stuff, big deal. All of those things are unimportant to me anyway, so who cares?
Exactly! I believe that mostly I don't remember things that I don't really care or think about. Why should I remember them? Because it matters to someone else? Well, let them remember it then.
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
Mac hardware doesn't come with SCSI(unless you get the high-end machines which come with Adaptec SCSI cards). All machines come with ATA/66 built-in onto the motherboard.
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
Re:I'm sure this is all wrong
on
Plastic Valley?
·
· Score: 1
The reason they use silicon is because IT'S CHEAP! IT IS JUST (refined) SAND!
It's not the only reason they use Silicon. Cost is a main one, but Silicon has other attractive properties for use in semiconductor electronics.
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
Unfortunately, it's not the same. As the saying goes, "If I have an apple and you have an apple and we trade, we both still have just one apple. BUT, if you have an idea and I have and idea and we trade, we both have 2 idea's."
Or more pertinent to your example, if I have an apple and you take it from me, I've lost an apple. If I have an idea and I share it with you, we both have an idea and we're arguably both better off.
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
No, it was a decent ANSI C book as far as I know. "The C programming Language" by Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie. Perhaps you've heard of it?;-)
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
No, it's not beautyful. It is not even legal ISO (or ANSI) C, because main should return a value!
bzzzt! wrong! Checking out my trusty ANSI C book, the simple program "Hello World!" (or any other program for that matter) does NOT require you to return a value at the end of main to indicate success(though some older compilers require it). If you get to the end of the main block, that is assumed to be grounds for correct correct program termination(so the compiler will helpullfy insert the return statement for you).
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
An intuitive, almost natural language CLI. Hmmm... sounds pretty nice. In fact, it sounds an awful lot like AppleScript (for less marketing speak, see here). At one time they even had translation between languages. While not a full CLI, it could probably be made into one. It certainly has almost natural language syntax.
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
Slashdot Mirror
Well, Computer City in Canada is now owned by Future Shop(though Future Shop says they are going to keep all Computer City locations open).
;-)
They even have a website that's been unders construction for two years now(when I worked there... or was it three years...). Pretty sad. Things sure went down since I left, yesssir.
-----
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
all this time I've been using ALT+F4 (to quit) without any extra bending
Unless you have unusually long fingers, F4 is still quite a stretch. I urge you to try putting your thumb(of your left hand) on the ALT key and just let your hand relax and rest on the keyboard. Look where your middle and index fingers are: right on or next to the Q and W keys(ALT Q for quitting apps, ALT W FOR closing windows - both different actions in MacOS). Your results will vary of course, but in general, I'm sure you'll find yourself right in that area. No stretching at all. Also, if positioned properly, third finger is right on the tab key(ALT-tab was for switching apps). The number of possible combos just in that area is astounding. ALT-a for select all, ALT-C for copy, ALT-x for cut, ALT-v for paste (admittedly the most awkward of the combos), ALT-s for save etc. I'm sorry, but ALT-F4 is still an uncomfortable stretch.
I also note that you only provided one example that you thought wasn't bad. One counter-example by no means demonstrates equivalence in terms of efficiency between whatever interface you're using and MacOS.
-----
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
That may be a major issue in this. I admit I have the god-awful-and-pointless 'Windows key' between my ALT and CTRL keys, so it's more awkward for me than others I'm sure. But still, the ALT key is MUCH more comfortable once you adapt. Unfortunately, changing key bindings in KDE doesn't affect GTK apps and vice versa. The two camps should definitely work something out in that regard.
-----
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
Oh, I guess that's not a Computer City just down the street from me. huh. Thanks for the tip.
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
The only problem with that is feedback. It's very convenient for quick app launches, but if something segfaults you can't tell(except for the obvious fact that it doesn't open).
-----
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
I would hardly call the MacOS interface "elegant,"
I would call it exactly that. See, people nowadays just don't get it with GUI's. The point of a GUI is not to make everyone happy. You have some pet peeve about with menus at the top of the screen. Who cares? Should the world be condemned to menu bars being contained within windows ala Windows? I've used alot of different interfaces(BeOS,GTK based desktops,KDE,QNX,Windows95/98/ME/NT4.0/2k, MacOS 6.x/7.x/8.x/9.x) and the Macintosh interface(while maybe not THE most intuitive) is certainly the most efficient.
The point of a GUI is to make it intuitive and quick to perform whatever it is you want to do. Of any interface I have ever used, the Macintosh interface allowed me to whatever it is I needed to do at an incredible speed once I got used to it(which didn't take long at all). The key combos were nicely laid out on the keyboard. Not like in Windows and linux where I need an CTRL+Q to quit, so my thumb has to bend awkardly while another finger reaches up to hit Q. It was COMMAND+Q, and the COMMAND key was nicely placed roughly where the ALT key is now. I could rest my hand nicely on the side of the keyboard with my thumb on the COMMAND key and I wouldn't have to move it every combo uses that key in conjunction with another key conveniently within a finger's distance.
My hands could fly across the keyboard as I used key combos in conjunction with the mouse. Folders opened, windows popped up, items selected, moved, copied, windows closed, applications swapped, window focused changed all with barely a movement of the mouse. I could do it all in the blink of an eye. People watching me could not keep up with what I was doing; they were completely bewildered. That's power.
So why don't YOU call ME when you have an interface that allows me to work as quickly and efficiently as I could on my Mac. BTW, I'm currently writing this on an Athlon Linux box, so don't just shrug me off as another Mac zealot; I KNOW what I'm talking about.
-----
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
If we're lucky, everyone reverts to tableless pages with grey backgrounds.
Completely unnecessary. My Site is fine with tables. It's not exactly beautiful, but that's mostly because I've kept the graphics down to a minimum(DSL connection == not exceptionally fast on upstream).
My site full HTML 4.01 compliant(almost XHTML 1.0), it renders perfectly in every browser I have available(including lynx!). I just haven't tried with it IE(no Windows installation), though I'm sure it renders fine too.
If any of you are using IE, check out the site and let me know if it's ok! I'll cower in fear now and hope this relatively obscure posting doesn't slashdot my site.
-----
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
Do you really mean to argue that learning to carry the one and add decimals to divide out the remainder are really prerequisites for understanding higher maths?
Actually, I think it is extremely relevant. When you deal with maths on paper and in your head you develop a conceptual understanding of problems and mathematical properties. Then when you get to higher maths, you have this intuitive understanding of the underlying principles.
'Like what?' you may ask? How about the limit of infinite sums, the building block of integration? A simple sum repeated (countably) infinite times. I'll bet that most kids taught to do math on calculators will just ask, 'how do I punch that in?' because they have little intuitive understanding of addition. You really can't just plug that in a calc. Calculators just aren't flexible enough to do any integral you need(although some calcs can do some integrals using approximations). But your brain is flexible, and can process that kind of information.
Believe me, I know because I see this problem all the time: I'm an Engineering student. You wouldn't believe the number of mathematically clueless people here; and these are some of the (supposedly) brightest ones too. Thank god for modelling software because if these people had to calculate things themselves, we'd all be in the shitter pretty quick. Ok, I'm exagerrating just a bit, but the problem does exist and it'll only get worse if kids can't even perform simple addition in their heads.
You mention that analytic skills are the important ones, and you're right. But to be perfectly honest, math is analytical. People who can't do simple math, can't do complex math. It's as simple as that.
-----
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
Well, let's analyze this then:
If you have some element with HCL as a constituent unit and then you remove the HCL, what happens? The two become chemically different. If two things are chemically different, then they are not the same.
-----
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
So I forget some stuff, big deal. All of those things are unimportant to me anyway, so who cares?
Exactly! I believe that mostly I don't remember things that I don't really care or think about. Why should I remember them? Because it matters to someone else? Well, let them remember it then.
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
If cocaine and crack weren't two different things, then yes.
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
Ahhh... well then... true. :-)
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
Mac hardware doesn't come with SCSI(unless you get the high-end machines which come with Adaptec SCSI cards). All machines come with ATA/66 built-in onto the motherboard.
-----
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
The reason they use silicon is because IT'S CHEAP! IT IS JUST (refined) SAND!
It's not the only reason they use Silicon. Cost is a main one, but Silicon has other attractive properties for use in semiconductor electronics.
-----
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
Unfortunately, it's not the same. As the saying goes, "If I have an apple and you have an apple and we trade, we both still have just one apple. BUT, if you have an idea and I have and idea and we trade, we both have 2 idea's."
Or more pertinent to your example, if I have an apple and you take it from me, I've lost an apple. If I have an idea and I share it with you, we both have an idea and we're arguably both better off.
-----
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
No, it was a decent ANSI C book as far as I know. "The C programming Language" by Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie. Perhaps you've heard of it? ;-)
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
You wanna see great code in as many languages as youve ever seen assembled? Sing and follow me! "99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles..."
http://www.ionet.net/~timtroyr/funhouse/beer.html
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
No, it's not beautyful. It is not even legal ISO (or ANSI) C, because main should return a value!
bzzzt! wrong! Checking out my trusty ANSI C book, the simple program "Hello World!" (or any other program for that matter) does NOT require you to return a value at the end of main to indicate success(though some older compilers require it). If you get to the end of the main block, that is assumed to be grounds for correct correct program termination(so the compiler will helpullfy insert the return statement for you).
-----
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
An intuitive, almost natural language CLI. Hmmm... sounds pretty nice. In fact, it sounds an awful lot like AppleScript (for less marketing speak, see here). At one time they even had translation between languages. While not a full CLI, it could probably be made into one. It certainly has almost natural language syntax.
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
Which is Microsoft's fault anyways...
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
2.4 probably uses more caching so it will look faster on machines with RAM to spare.
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
The lack of cohesion and support for any of your points proves it to be SOLELY random theorizing.
*ahem* Do you have any support for that point?
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
Oh, so you mean Berlin.
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
But I'm using Konqueror. ;-)
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
That's all well and good. It still doesn't answer my question. That could be reflected light from the nearby star for all I know.
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"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"