OK. In a near-futile effort not to display too much of my ignorance or stupidity, I'll only give about as much information (commentary) as I actually know in reply to this. Otherwise, my head might deflate or implode.:-)
I actually use a firewall (a seperate firewall/router) to protect my system against silly things like DOS attacks. Yes, they are actully useful. But, not a real virus / trojan deterrant.
And all the emails coming to my boxes are scanned for spam, cruft, filth, etc. So, this is not about email protection, as I have nothing but praise for email scanners.
It's about an exploit gaining root access to a system. That's what is required to damage the integrity of the system. You talk about root-kits... OK, how is the root-kit put on the system? Unsuspecting users you say? Well as long as no privilege-escalating programs are enabled for non-root user access, no issue there. As long as no binaries are allowed in user directories and the current dir is not allowed in a root level users path (in fact root path can be hard coded to a known good directory set and checked regularly.) and email, web and other services do not run under privileged account... no problem with getting a root-kit. Unless the admin is at fault going and building such a rootkit on his own machine. I guess then, that he/she gets what they deserve.
Don't get me wrong, folks. The odds just say you're wasting your time worrying about this. Even the worm mentioned earlier (Ramen) only had success with 2 distros Redhat 6.2 and 7.0 and only when the were running unpatched version of specific daemons. That left an awful lot of Linux users pretty safe.
Last point, the heterogeneity of Linux systems makes a virus writers job difficult to impossible. Imagine having to pack alist of every distros possible vunerabilities in ever copy of the virus. Ergo, Windows needs AV software critically. Linux, minimally and only then if your admins are fully competent to secure their system from attacks and silly exploits.
End of comments. Now the Mods can downgrade me as Troll.
I guess it's acceptable for people with real OS's like Linux to offload the job of properly configuring their systems deamons and services to a virus protection tool. (<- Sarcasm) But, really now... If your non-root non-administrative applications have no privileges and your users are not running under a high rights accounts, you are protected. No hard can be doen to your system. All viruses ever reported on Linux boxes have been the result of running the virus under a privileged account - easily avoided.
*nix is not equal to M$ windows -- So, why try to make it fit the mold of windows? That is: windows is essentially a graphical virus on top of old/legacy DOS interface to a totally insecure thinly designed massive monolithic 16-bit->32-bit kernel thunk.
Of course you need to protect this virus from other viruses. It's too poorly designed and coded to survive against the intruders! Duhh...
Nope! I'm not gonna need to get a Virus Scanner for my Linux box. In fact I actually copied several of the windows variations into my home directory to reverse-engineer.:-)
LL
Shampoo on your real hair... Real poo on your sham hair!
I have to say - I'm a bit saddened by the ongoing realization that we have become a Financial Borg juggernaut of little overarching intelligence. The power of the masses is it's money, the brains behind that power is missing.
If people don't wake up and start thinking about where there money is going and what ideas it's supporting, we all (even the thoughtful spenders among us) will find ourselves waking up one day in a land governed by big-money... my real freedom because we are all financial slaves to the financial oligargy.
I won't happen fast enough for us to see it. It will be slow -- it will erode our personal freedom like water wearing away the rock below the waterfall. A drip here and a drip there... (Somebody in this forum mentioned a frog-n-a-heating-pot analogy). It doesn't have to be. It's only because we have disposable income and little thought about how we flex that monetary muscle.
Please, please wake up, you sleeping spenders. Don't just open your wallets to companies who take your freedoms and give you quick and easy entertainment. See what's coming down the road. Foresight is not that rare and elusive a talent. Develop it. Learn from past history, yours and others.
This post is broader that the topic suggests, but I believe it's on the periphery of it - maybe dead center, judging by some of the posters hotter verbal near-flame posts. Honestly, I will not 'upgrade' to a better ball and chain on my leg-manacle. The one I already were ART my music enjoyments is heavy enough (DRM - DMCA). Imagine the writers of paperbacks and hardbacks (yes books) figuring out a way to sell you self-destructing texts and can activate that feature after you forget your rent check (and texts that when loaned to someone else, the words are invisible). Not possible! Right, but when we support this new digital media, we make it all too possible and even easy for them (the Media Companies) to realize the aforementioned scenario.
Not with my $.99! Not now, not ever. And if real hard media goes away because our financial muscle forced the book and record producers out business, then I will not accept any of the blame. Even so, I will be a victim the same as you. So, that's why I have a tear in my eye. We all will deal with the future of our own making. And our children will be it's heirs. A freedomless society, is not a legacy I wish to leave them and theirs.
Just my little rant. You may go back to our regularly scheduled flamewars.
I might call it an Alphanumeric Glyph-based Human Interface Peripheral Device. Or an "Anghip" device... if it hadn't already been named, that is. Or an "Anguhip" for Alphanumeric glyph-based USB human interface peripheral.
Too bad, though. It might sound cooler than "keyboard".
English Alphanumeric Glyph-based Loader Entry (or 'eagle') HID device????
Not unless they make that trackball work better. You gotta be able to maneuver to make that backstab work well. And I hate mobs sneaking up on me and can't turn around fast enough to blast 'em.
Yes... Well it's no different from the major oil companies hiring the young engineer that invented the more efficient engine, or the better gas alternative... then locking away the formula and paying him to keep his mouth shut.
My guess, since Microsoft has probably gotten him to sign a contract not to work on the competition even after he left, we won't see any improvements to Linux by him for some time.
Oh well...
LL
>
As far as Windows being the only ready-for-primetime OS... As far as I'm concerned windows will not be ready for primetime until it has gotten over this need to be reinstalled every 3 months in order to keep all that 'just works' hardware and software from self-destructing itself and the OS.
linux: reboot... seldom, install... once, upgrade... as desired, price... hard to beat windows: reboot... daily, install... over and over again, upgrade... is absolutely crucial, price... hard to come up with
I won't even mention driver loading and unloading differences on linux vs windows.
Slashdot Mirror
L L
Still searching for my lost sig line
OK. In a near-futile effort not to display too much of my ignorance or stupidity, I'll only give about as much information (commentary) as I actually know in reply to this. Otherwise, my head might deflate or implode. :-)
I actually use a firewall (a seperate firewall/router) to protect my system against silly things like DOS attacks. Yes, they are actully useful. But, not a real virus / trojan deterrant.
And all the emails coming to my boxes are scanned for spam, cruft, filth, etc. So, this is not about email protection, as I have nothing but praise for email scanners.
It's about an exploit gaining root access to a system. That's what is required to damage the integrity of the system. You talk about root-kits... OK, how is the root-kit put on the system? Unsuspecting users you say? Well as long as no privilege-escalating programs are enabled for non-root user access, no issue there. As long as no binaries are allowed in user directories and the current dir is not allowed in a root level users path (in fact root path can be hard coded to a known good directory set and checked regularly.) and email, web and other services do not run under privileged account... no problem with getting a root-kit. Unless the admin is at fault going and building such a rootkit on his own machine. I guess then, that he/she gets what they deserve.
Don't get me wrong, folks. The odds just say you're wasting your time worrying about this. Even the worm mentioned earlier (Ramen) only had success with 2 distros Redhat 6.2 and 7.0 and only when the were running unpatched version of specific daemons. That left an awful lot of Linux users pretty safe.
Last point, the heterogeneity of Linux systems makes a virus writers job difficult to impossible. Imagine having to pack alist of every distros possible vunerabilities in ever copy of the virus. Ergo, Windows needs AV software critically. Linux, minimally and only then if your admins are fully competent to secure their system from attacks and silly exploits.
End of comments. Now the Mods can downgrade me as Troll.
L L
Waiting for my mandatory down-mod to troll
*nix is not equal to M$ windows -- So, why try to make it fit the mold of windows? That is: windows is essentially a graphical virus on top of old/legacy DOS interface to a totally insecure thinly designed massive monolithic 16-bit->32-bit kernel thunk.
Of course you need to protect this virus from other viruses. It's too poorly designed and coded to survive against the intruders! Duhh...
Nope! I'm not gonna need to get a Virus Scanner for my Linux box. In fact I actually copied several of the windows variations into my home directory to reverse-engineer. :-)
LL
Shampoo on your real hair... Real poo on your sham hair!
I have to say - I'm a bit saddened by the ongoing realization that we have become a Financial Borg juggernaut of little overarching intelligence. The power of the masses is it's money, the brains behind that power is missing.
If people don't wake up and start thinking about where there money is going and what ideas it's supporting, we all (even the thoughtful spenders among us) will find ourselves waking up one day in a land governed by big-money... my real freedom because we are all financial slaves to the financial oligargy.
I won't happen fast enough for us to see it. It will be slow -- it will erode our personal freedom like water wearing away the rock below the waterfall. A drip here and a drip there... (Somebody in this forum mentioned a frog-n-a-heating-pot analogy). It doesn't have to be. It's only because we have disposable income and little thought about how we flex that monetary muscle.
Please, please wake up, you sleeping spenders. Don't just open your wallets to companies who take your freedoms and give you quick and easy entertainment. See what's coming down the road. Foresight is not that rare and elusive a talent. Develop it. Learn from past history, yours and others.
This post is broader that the topic suggests, but I believe it's on the periphery of it - maybe dead center, judging by some of the posters hotter verbal near-flame posts. Honestly, I will not 'upgrade' to a better ball and chain on my leg-manacle. The one I already were ART my music enjoyments is heavy enough (DRM - DMCA). Imagine the writers of paperbacks and hardbacks (yes books) figuring out a way to sell you self-destructing texts and can activate that feature after you forget your rent check (and texts that when loaned to someone else, the words are invisible). Not possible! Right, but when we support this new digital media, we make it all too possible and even easy for them (the Media Companies) to realize the aforementioned scenario.
Not with my $.99! Not now, not ever. And if real hard media goes away because our financial muscle forced the book and record producers out business, then I will not accept any of the blame. Even so, I will be a victim the same as you. So, that's why I have a tear in my eye. We all will deal with the future of our own making. And our children will be it's heirs. A freedomless society, is not a legacy I wish to leave them and theirs.
Just my little rant. You may go back to our regularly scheduled flamewars.
LL
sig withheld by popular demand.
You might want to square the tip in your sig to this.
LL
I might call it an Alphanumeric Glyph-based Human Interface Peripheral Device. Or an "Anghip" device... if it hadn't already been named, that is.
Or an "Anguhip" for Alphanumeric glyph-based USB human interface peripheral.
Too bad, though. It might sound cooler than "keyboard".
English Alphanumeric Glyph-based Loader Entry (or 'eagle') HID device????
L @ L
Not unless they make that trackball work better. You gotta be able to maneuver to make that backstab work well. And I hate mobs sneaking up on me and can't turn around fast enough to blast 'em.
L @ L
Yes... Well it's no different from the major oil companies hiring the young engineer that invented the more efficient engine, or the better gas alternative... then locking away the formula and paying him to keep his mouth shut. My guess, since Microsoft has probably gotten him to sign a contract not to work on the competition even after he left, we won't see any improvements to Linux by him for some time. Oh well... LL >
What is that... fall down, split sides, roll around, pee your pants, convulsions and histerics, hillarious?
Yowzer!!!!! This moderation thing works awesomely.
LL
As far as Windows being the only ready-for-primetime OS... As far as I'm concerned windows will not be ready for primetime until it has gotten over this need to be reinstalled every 3 months in order to keep all that 'just works' hardware and software from self-destructing itself and the OS.
linux: reboot... seldom, install... once, upgrade... as desired, price... hard to beat
windows: reboot... daily, install... over and over again, upgrade... is absolutely crucial, price... hard to come up with
Any questions on who's ready-for-primetime?
LL