I think it actually is possible with the render extension. If you check out keith packard's page that tells about it he has a screenshot of a hacked FVWM where the menus are translucent. check it out here.
Of course maybe it isn't possible, I would have thought the Eterm developers or someone would have made a terminal program to use this ability already.
I meant you can't switch to a different directory without going and typing it in in the other field. with GTK+'s you can type the directory name and hit tab and it will show the contents of that directory. No need to switch to the other text field and type in the directory then switch back to the other text field. That's all I was trying to say.
Yeah definitely. I'm pretty sure that GNOME is getting a new file selection dialog, in fact in Ximian GNOME right now there is a new one, which is much nicer.
My only gripe about the KDE file selection dialog is the fact that you can't specify directories in the same spot you type in files. One thing I've grown to love about the Gnome/GTK+ file selection dialog (no matter how ugly it is) is that I can use tab completion to specify a full path very quickly, just like in a bash shell. For example, if I want to get to the directory/usr/share/pixmaps/backgrounds I can type/usr/shpixba and that will usually get me there very quickly. And you can do the same thing with files of course, and if there is more then one match when you hit tab, that's what files/directories the file selection dialog will show so you can find files very quickly this way.
With KDE's there is a seperate text input for the directory, which is nice and it should stay that way but I think they should add the ability to specify the directory in the file text input box.
But, pretty small gripe considering all the things the GNOME/GTK+ selection dialog has wrong with it;)
It's stupid cause why do you care what other people use? It's fine to like a program but what's the point of trying to push it on other people? Especially a text editor, as a text file will work with any text editor. I'd say that makes it a pretty stupid debate.
I was refering to the smoothing nautilus does to the icons. It blends a drop shadow in with the background. It looks very nice, even has drop shadows that fade into the background. But, like I said before, it comes at a performance hit. So I was wondering, or more like hoping, that KDE 3.0 would give the same great look but do it much faster.
Well I use both, usually GNOME more often as I like the look I can achieve with it and pretty much all my favorite programs are gtk+ based, so it's nice having the same look for everything.
But the reason I think a lot of people like KDE is because of the level of integration everything has. It truly is a Desktop Environment, whereas GNOME at this point has more of a "most of the programs look similar" feel to it. Very little seems to be in place for the programs to talk to eachother and work the same from application to application.
For example, in KDE2 every program that opens files (to the best of my knowledge) uses KIO (I'm guessing that stands for KDE Input Outout) and this makes it so you can open and save files from/to anything KIO supports. For example, you can open a file in a KDE text editing program by giving a http url like http://slashdot.org/ (that should give you the source code for slashdot's main page in HTML) then you could then save that file to some ftp site, just by putting ftp://blah.com/incoming/file.html in the save dialog.
That level of integration is all over KDE2 and it really makes for a great experience. There is tons of other stuff too, like how konqueror embeds components so it can display many types of files. In fact, if I'm not wrong, the koffice office suite is made up of components so I think you can view kword files in konqueror without really launching the kword application, just embeds it into konqueror's window.
Lots of other stuff to explore in KDE. For me though I just like the look and feel of GNOME. And I think all those nifty things in KDE give it a lot more stuff that can break (and from my experience it tends to do just that). Of course I could just have bad luck with it, I dunno.
The release notes mentions hardware accelerated alpha blending. Does this mean that KDE will have a super smooth looking desktop like Nautilus but still be very fast? I love the look of Nautilus when the smooth graphics are turned on, but the performance hit sucks.
Also this should get rid of the sharp edges of icons in the KDE menu and on buttons in programs right? Or are they only using it for fading out inactive items?
Anyone have a screenshot of KDE 3.0 alpha showing how the alpha blending looks?
Seems to me the reason you are seeing these projects moving so fast is because there are two. In fact if you just look at the planned features for KDE 3.0 a lot of them are the same as the planned features for GNOME 2.0 (bi-directional language support for example).
I doubt having them both is hurting anything, people developing for GNOME probably are wanting something else out of a desktop than KDE and vice versa. So I doubt that killing one project would mean all those developers would jump ships.
I think instead we should be trying to make the fact that two desktops exist just a trivial thing. Make them share stuff like application menus, desktops, etc. Another thing I'd really like to see is a common theme format, so the programs would look alike, although I doubt we'll ever see that.
I tried to install it, the installation seemed to work fine on both mozilla 0.9.4 and a nightly build that I downloaded yesterday. Yet on both of the mozilla versions when I restarted mozilla (as I was told to do when the installation finished) I came back to see nothing different. I think there was suppose to be a new toolbar. I didn't see one and there was no option to show/hide one in the preferences or the view menu.
Anyone else have this problem and figure out how to get it working? I really wanted to give this a try.
I'll tell you the truth, I didn't even read all of your comment. I just saw the beginning question of who cares. And you implied that either you buy it or you don't.
Not exactly. I'm not going to buy it, yet it's still going to effect me. I use linux almost exclusively but the tactics that Microsoft is using with windows XP is going to give me pains for years to come.
Microsoft is trying to use Windows XP to push web developers into using active x, and no longer supporting netscape plugins. Not that big of a deal for windows users, but what happens when web developers start saying "well, I can just support active x and get 90% of the market, thats good enough." I will no longer be able to see things such as flash on a web page. And even if you don't use flash that much you must admit its annoying when someone gives you a link to something and you have to explain (for the millionth time) that you can't view that in linux.
I'm sure theres going to be a lot more than that too, sounds like they are trying to get users to use Windows Media instead of mp3. I bet the builtin cd ripping (it has this right?) will by default rip to windows media. Since windows doesn't even show extensions the majority of users aren't going to know the difference. Well before you know it windows media will be replacing mp3 *sigh*.
Probably a bunch of other things that we're not even aware yet, that microsoft will unvail later on.
I know this sounds like paranoid ramblings, but I seriously think this is the type of things they're trying to do.
First, although this is really personal taste, I don't think the guy could have been any further from the truth when talking about which browser looks the best. I mean he totally ripped on galeon, then went on to say skipstone was decent looking. Ummm, the last time I tried skipstone it was pretty much the same look as galeon only a less appealing spinner and crappier icons (maybe things have changed but I doubt it).
Well, I shrugged that off thinking maybe he just has weird taste, then I hit the part about the load times on slashdot.
Those numbers he has are insane. I don't know how slashdot could take that long to load. And theres no way, from my experience at least, that netscape navigator 4.x could beat mozilla in load times.
I think the part that pretty much puts the nail in the coffin (or whatever that saying is) for this guy's article is the fact that the load times for the gecko based browsers (mozilla, galeon, skipstone) differed by like 10 seconds each. I think this guy is measuring the speed of slashdot's server at different times more than he's measuring the browsers. He probably should have some how measured how long it took to load a complex page located on a local server or his own computer.
Oh well, one good thing came out of this article, i decided to give opera a try, downloading it right now.
And for anyone who can't use galeon and is wondering what it looks like I made a screenshot of it right here.
Try http://www.audiogalaxy.com/.
It works very cool, pretty much just like you're saying. Only the GUI is their web page so its super accessable from any computer, yet any music you want still gets downloading to where you're running the "satellite" program.
If you don't already have to worry about touching the space bar every couple of seconds then you must type very very slowly. I bet I type the spacebar like 2 or 3 times every second. I think having the space bar be the key to shift to the next side of the keyboard is pretty ingenious, had I come up with this idea I probably would have done something stupid like add a new key.
With that said I'm not so sure its too impracticle, it all depends on how fast people can get typing on it. If I could get anywhere near my current speed then I'd love to have one of these things, I would never have to take my hand off the mouse and I could constantly be typing stuff too. That would be pretty neat I think.
Of course I'm a little stumped as to why theres no ctrl or alt key (I think I read that in the article).
Yeah, its called libpr0n, although then its called something else for the public, imglib2 or something?
I think they should have just stuck with libpr0n for the public too, anyone who would find that distasteful probably wouldn't even know what pr0n refers to to get the joke anyways. They'd just think it was some computer mumbo-jumbo.
Heres a paragraph from the unixreview.com review:
Companies looking to move to Linux may find that the Small Business Suite is just what they're looking for. The pricing is certainly right. The Small Business Suite runs $499.00 for a one-server license. Each user requires a license as well, which runs between $86 per seat and $133 per seat. If you don't need the whole suite, you can buy the individual components instead.
If I recall correctly, it has alpha blending for icons like the desktop icons. I think I remember reading about this coming out and I tried it back when I had KDE 2 installed but it didn't seem to make much of a difference.
This brings up a question though, when are we going to see translucent windows? I know that keith packard's render extension is suppose to add support for this in X. Anyone know if there are programs you can get that use this extension to do translucent windows? Surprised there isn't a hack of Eterm to do it or something, perhaps I'm missing something and they can't do it?
KDE really has made huge improvements in themeing, I downloaded Eazel-blue kde theme and I think it beats the pants off the original gtk version.
However, even though I've tried very hard I just can't get use to the feel of kde. It has a very bright crayon-colored look. Even if I change themes it still has this look and feel, mostly in the icons (which as I understand can also be changed, although I haven't found any).
As for the feel though, it'd be nice if the kpanel had the same amount of configurability as the gnome panel. Right now I have the menubar type gnome-panel and then a normal gnome-panel at the bottom (which has a pixmap to give a translucent like effect). Looks very nice and I'd like it if I could do similar things with KDE.
GNOME just has a very organic pleasing color pallete in my opinion. It could just be because I've gotten use to GNOME but I have tried very hard to just use KDE as I view it as a technically superior product to GNOME. Konqueror is just amazing, as is the level of integration the KDE programs have with the all of KDE.
So hopefully I can get some nicer icon sets (mostly for the menus, those ones are just god awful ugly to me, the desktop ones are pretty nice) and the kpanel will get more configurability and I think I'll become a new KDE users.
Actually, if you upgrade to progeny from potato the version numbers of all the software (or just about all of it I imagine) will be higher, and so changing the apt sources list back to a potato URL would do nothing. All the packages that apt would see available would be lower versions than the ones you have installed. So you'd never have updates.
I assume you'd have a lot of trouble going from progeny back to woody too.
This is not a bug, it's the default Debian configuration, whats happening is you're using the 100dpi fonts instead of the 75 dpi fonts.
There's a file you can edit to change this, however I can't quite remember what it is as my Slackware machine doesn't have it.
I think its either
/etc/X11/xdm/serverrc
or
/etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc
probably the first one, I'm pretty sure its xserverrc though, then there should be "-dpi 100" just change the 100 to 75 and your problem should be solved.
Yeah, I too use an external program for downloading (Gnome Transfer Manager) and I had the same trouble you speak of with the nightly builds of mozilla. This version however works perfectly, I can drag the links to files to the gtm applet (or gtm window itself) and the file will start downloading.
I'm young, and starting to enter the "Real World" for myself. I'm also starting to see the government for what, I believe, it really is: a fake democracy which is not powered by the people, but rather by large corporations.
Your views may differ from mine, but I strongly believe that corporations, who flaunt their money, hold a lot more power than any of the people. This is very evident with acts such as the DMCA, which strips the public's freedom away in order to put more control into corporations hands.
So my question to you is, is this really a problem? If not how come, and if it is, what are your plans to change it?
Slashdot Mirror
I think it actually is possible with the render extension. If you check out keith packard's page that tells about it he has a screenshot of a hacked FVWM where the menus are translucent. check it out here.
Of course maybe it isn't possible, I would have thought the Eterm developers or someone would have made a terminal program to use this ability already.
I meant you can't switch to a different directory without going and typing it in in the other field. with GTK+'s you can type the directory name and hit tab and it will show the contents of that directory. No need to switch to the other text field and type in the directory then switch back to the other text field. That's all I was trying to say.
Yeah definitely. I'm pretty sure that GNOME is getting a new file selection dialog, in fact in Ximian GNOME right now there is a new one, which is much nicer.
/usr/share/pixmaps/backgrounds I can type /usr/shpixba and that will usually get me there very quickly. And you can do the same thing with files of course, and if there is more then one match when you hit tab, that's what files/directories the file selection dialog will show so you can find files very quickly this way.
;)
My only gripe about the KDE file selection dialog is the fact that you can't specify directories in the same spot you type in files. One thing I've grown to love about the Gnome/GTK+ file selection dialog (no matter how ugly it is) is that I can use tab completion to specify a full path very quickly, just like in a bash shell. For example, if I want to get to the directory
With KDE's there is a seperate text input for the directory, which is nice and it should stay that way but I think they should add the ability to specify the directory in the file text input box.
But, pretty small gripe considering all the things the GNOME/GTK+ selection dialog has wrong with it
It's stupid cause why do you care what other people use? It's fine to like a program but what's the point of trying to push it on other people? Especially a text editor, as a text file will work with any text editor. I'd say that makes it a pretty stupid debate.
I was refering to the smoothing nautilus does to the icons. It blends a drop shadow in with the background. It looks very nice, even has drop shadows that fade into the background. But, like I said before, it comes at a performance hit. So I was wondering, or more like hoping, that KDE 3.0 would give the same great look but do it much faster.
Well I use both, usually GNOME more often as I like the look I can achieve with it and pretty much all my favorite programs are gtk+ based, so it's nice having the same look for everything.
But the reason I think a lot of people like KDE is because of the level of integration everything has. It truly is a Desktop Environment, whereas GNOME at this point has more of a "most of the programs look similar" feel to it. Very little seems to be in place for the programs to talk to eachother and work the same from application to application.
For example, in KDE2 every program that opens files (to the best of my knowledge) uses KIO (I'm guessing that stands for KDE Input Outout) and this makes it so you can open and save files from/to anything KIO supports. For example, you can open a file in a KDE text editing program by giving a http url like http://slashdot.org/ (that should give you the source code for slashdot's main page in HTML) then you could then save that file to some ftp site, just by putting ftp://blah.com/incoming/file.html in the save dialog.
That level of integration is all over KDE2 and it really makes for a great experience. There is tons of other stuff too, like how konqueror embeds components so it can display many types of files. In fact, if I'm not wrong, the koffice office suite is made up of components so I think you can view kword files in konqueror without really launching the kword application, just embeds it into konqueror's window.
Lots of other stuff to explore in KDE. For me though I just like the look and feel of GNOME. And I think all those nifty things in KDE give it a lot more stuff that can break (and from my experience it tends to do just that). Of course I could just have bad luck with it, I dunno.
The release notes mentions hardware accelerated alpha blending. Does this mean that KDE will have a super smooth looking desktop like Nautilus but still be very fast? I love the look of Nautilus when the smooth graphics are turned on, but the performance hit sucks.
Also this should get rid of the sharp edges of icons in the KDE menu and on buttons in programs right? Or are they only using it for fading out inactive items?
Anyone have a screenshot of KDE 3.0 alpha showing how the alpha blending looks?
Seems to me the reason you are seeing these projects moving so fast is because there are two. In fact if you just look at the planned features for KDE 3.0 a lot of them are the same as the planned features for GNOME 2.0 (bi-directional language support for example).
I doubt having them both is hurting anything, people developing for GNOME probably are wanting something else out of a desktop than KDE and vice versa. So I doubt that killing one project would mean all those developers would jump ships.
I think instead we should be trying to make the fact that two desktops exist just a trivial thing. Make them share stuff like application menus, desktops, etc. Another thing I'd really like to see is a common theme format, so the programs would look alike, although I doubt we'll ever see that.
I tried to install it, the installation seemed to work fine on both mozilla 0.9.4 and a nightly build that I downloaded yesterday. Yet on both of the mozilla versions when I restarted mozilla (as I was told to do when the installation finished) I came back to see nothing different. I think there was suppose to be a new toolbar. I didn't see one and there was no option to show/hide one in the preferences or the view menu.
Anyone else have this problem and figure out how to get it working? I really wanted to give this a try.
Yeah I see your point, then they could even feel the joy of having to reboot every day.
Oh, I'm sorry, let's give windows 2000 some credit.
Every other day
I'll tell you the truth, I didn't even read all of your comment. I just saw the beginning question of who cares. And you implied that either you buy it or you don't.
Not exactly. I'm not going to buy it, yet it's still going to effect me. I use linux almost exclusively but the tactics that Microsoft is using with windows XP is going to give me pains for years to come.
Microsoft is trying to use Windows XP to push web developers into using active x, and no longer supporting netscape plugins. Not that big of a deal for windows users, but what happens when web developers start saying "well, I can just support active x and get 90% of the market, thats good enough." I will no longer be able to see things such as flash on a web page. And even if you don't use flash that much you must admit its annoying when someone gives you a link to something and you have to explain (for the millionth time) that you can't view that in linux.
I'm sure theres going to be a lot more than that too, sounds like they are trying to get users to use Windows Media instead of mp3. I bet the builtin cd ripping (it has this right?) will by default rip to windows media. Since windows doesn't even show extensions the majority of users aren't going to know the difference. Well before you know it windows media will be replacing mp3 *sigh*.
Probably a bunch of other things that we're not even aware yet, that microsoft will unvail later on.
I know this sounds like paranoid ramblings, but I seriously think this is the type of things they're trying to do.
Yeah, I just noticed that he was saving the page to disk. Guess i just assumed he wasn't since the times where so huge. My bad though.
I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading.
First, although this is really personal taste, I don't think the guy could have been any further from the truth when talking about which browser looks the best. I mean he totally ripped on galeon, then went on to say skipstone was decent looking. Ummm, the last time I tried skipstone it was pretty much the same look as galeon only a less appealing spinner and crappier icons (maybe things have changed but I doubt it).
Well, I shrugged that off thinking maybe he just has weird taste, then I hit the part about the load times on slashdot.
Those numbers he has are insane. I don't know how slashdot could take that long to load. And theres no way, from my experience at least, that netscape navigator 4.x could beat mozilla in load times.
I think the part that pretty much puts the nail in the coffin (or whatever that saying is) for this guy's article is the fact that the load times for the gecko based browsers (mozilla, galeon, skipstone) differed by like 10 seconds each. I think this guy is measuring the speed of slashdot's server at different times more than he's measuring the browsers. He probably should have some how measured how long it took to load a complex page located on a local server or his own computer.
Oh well, one good thing came out of this article, i decided to give opera a try, downloading it right now.
And for anyone who can't use galeon and is wondering what it looks like I made a screenshot of it right here.
Try http://www.audiogalaxy.com/. It works very cool, pretty much just like you're saying. Only the GUI is their web page so its super accessable from any computer, yet any music you want still gets downloading to where you're running the "satellite" program.
If you don't already have to worry about touching the space bar every couple of seconds then you must type very very slowly. I bet I type the spacebar like 2 or 3 times every second. I think having the space bar be the key to shift to the next side of the keyboard is pretty ingenious, had I come up with this idea I probably would have done something stupid like add a new key. With that said I'm not so sure its too impracticle, it all depends on how fast people can get typing on it. If I could get anywhere near my current speed then I'd love to have one of these things, I would never have to take my hand off the mouse and I could constantly be typing stuff too. That would be pretty neat I think. Of course I'm a little stumped as to why theres no ctrl or alt key (I think I read that in the article).
Yeah, its called libpr0n, although then its called something else for the public, imglib2 or something?
I think they should have just stuck with libpr0n for the public too, anyone who would find that distasteful probably wouldn't even know what pr0n refers to to get the joke anyways. They'd just think it was some computer mumbo-jumbo.
Heres a paragraph from the unixreview.com review: Companies looking to move to Linux may find that the Small Business Suite is just what they're looking for. The pricing is certainly right. The Small Business Suite runs $499.00 for a one-server license. Each user requires a license as well, which runs between $86 per seat and $133 per seat. If you don't need the whole suite, you can buy the individual components instead.
Yes, I think you probably are.
The rest of us are too busy enjoying our software to get into little squabbles like this.
No offense man, but I think we're all sick of bickering about gnome or kde.
If I recall correctly, it has alpha blending for icons like the desktop icons. I think I remember reading about this coming out and I tried it back when I had KDE 2 installed but it didn't seem to make much of a difference.
This brings up a question though, when are we going to see translucent windows? I know that keith packard's render extension is suppose to add support for this in X. Anyone know if there are programs you can get that use this extension to do translucent windows? Surprised there isn't a hack of Eterm to do it or something, perhaps I'm missing something and they can't do it?
KDE really has made huge improvements in themeing, I downloaded Eazel-blue kde theme and I think it beats the pants off the original gtk version.
However, even though I've tried very hard I just can't get use to the feel of kde. It has a very bright crayon-colored look. Even if I change themes it still has this look and feel, mostly in the icons (which as I understand can also be changed, although I haven't found any).
As for the feel though, it'd be nice if the kpanel had the same amount of configurability as the gnome panel. Right now I have the menubar type gnome-panel and then a normal gnome-panel at the bottom (which has a pixmap to give a translucent like effect). Looks very nice and I'd like it if I could do similar things with KDE.
GNOME just has a very organic pleasing color pallete in my opinion. It could just be because I've gotten use to GNOME but I have tried very hard to just use KDE as I view it as a technically superior product to GNOME. Konqueror is just amazing, as is the level of integration the KDE programs have with the all of KDE.
So hopefully I can get some nicer icon sets (mostly for the menus, those ones are just god awful ugly to me, the desktop ones are pretty nice) and the kpanel will get more configurability and I think I'll become a new KDE users.
Actually, if you upgrade to progeny from potato the version numbers of all the software (or just about all of it I imagine) will be higher, and so changing the apt sources list back to a potato URL would do nothing. All the packages that apt would see available would be lower versions than the ones you have installed. So you'd never have updates. I assume you'd have a lot of trouble going from progeny back to woody too.
thats the indrema console, but hard to say if its really going to come out.
http://www.indrema.com/
hope that helps
This is not a bug, it's the default Debian configuration, whats happening is you're using the 100dpi fonts instead of the 75 dpi fonts.
There's a file you can edit to change this, however I can't quite remember what it is as my Slackware machine doesn't have it.
I think its either
/etc/X11/xdm/serverrc
or
/etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc
probably the first one, I'm pretty sure its xserverrc though, then there should be "-dpi 100" just change the 100 to 75 and your problem should be solved.
Hope that works
Yeah, I too use an external program for downloading (Gnome Transfer Manager) and I had the same trouble you speak of with the nightly builds of mozilla. This version however works perfectly, I can drag the links to files to the gtm applet (or gtm window itself) and the file will start downloading.
I'm young, and starting to enter the "Real World" for myself. I'm also starting to see the government for what, I believe, it really is: a fake democracy which is not powered by the people, but rather by large corporations.
Your views may differ from mine, but I strongly believe that corporations, who flaunt their money, hold a lot more power than any of the people. This is very evident with acts such as the DMCA, which strips the public's freedom away in order to put more control into corporations hands.
So my question to you is, is this really a problem? If not how come, and if it is, what are your plans to change it?