"...since it's so disturbingly twisted."(Ark) Now who is the one misrepresenting a post?
"This can be remedied by saying that to me in public;)"(Ark). I'd love to, then I could have a much more interactive discussion.
"Letting your child outside to play is a normal thing."EP Unless you live in a heavy urban area. Then you take a a few days of the week to go to the park and enroll children into community center activities. Letting kids play in the commons of large apartments etc is not rational.
"What happens instead is that kids are raised by video games and TV, which overstimulate the kids without allowing them to physically tire themselves out. That's where the drugs come in."(EP)
Essentially he is saying that because children are overstimulated indoors they need medication. They would only be able to have this medication if they were diagnosed ADHD. He is also saying that children who do go outside would not be overstimulated thus not need the medication...
"He wasn't pushing values on others nonchalantly"(Ark) He put forth a basic argument, an argument that under-stimulated children are more prone to be medicated with ADHD meds. This is inherently persuasive because no one wants their children to be medicated.
My overall point is that children being constantly pushed out doors is not any better than the alternative; especially in urban environments.
However, you are probably right that I started my response in an unnecessarily combative tone. It is/. after all:P
Please don't try to push your values on others so nonchalantly. Forcing actual ADHD children outside will not cure nor prevent the condition. There is no good reason to push children out the door and let them play unsupervised, especially in an urban environment.
I don't understand why people think the outdoors is a magic fix all. It does not inherently make you skinny, healthy, or more well rounded. Not everyone lives in the burbs etc.
The prevalent behavioral problems that resemble ADHD have much more to do with two income families and a school environment that is unable to provide an engaging atmosphere.
Teachers reading text verbatim, bubble test, and rot memorization; who can blame children for not being focused.
Why Kids Are Turned Off To Medical Classes or Why Kids are Turned Off To Law Classes
Ask yourself why these are not the headings of more articles, and then you will have a better understanding of the “nerd” crisis.
The reason that computing, science, and other “nerdy” occupations are not popular is not because “it’s so hard”, but because the carrot is so comparatively small. Medical schools have a reputation of grueling academic and personal sacrifice, but they still thrive.
The future outlook in “nerdy” fields as of late is not so good. I know that I would not recommend them to any but the most dedicated. Maybe it’s arrogance that allows “nerds” to think that their work is somehow so much more complex than medicine and other professional positions that their field is suffering a lack of interest; ignoring the fact that the entire western technical and scientific sectors are in unprecedented economic turmoil.
Maybe it’s because the science and computing fields lack strong influential governing bodies such as the medical and legal licensing organizations. “Nerdy” fields are not as well respected in the West as they are in the East. Employment is very volatile, and extremely anti-family. There is no long term security, and ageism is rampant. The list just goes on, and on.
I know of people with PHd’s in physics etc. that can’t find decent work; that is ridiculous! They roam around from college to college so often that I have nick named them, “gypsy professors”. Once upon a time, they would have been considered national treasures.
It’s just economics; Too many people, too little need for “nerds”.
I honestly believe for profit higher education should not qualify for subsidized government loans. Why should a company be able to secure government funding for private profit? The conflict of interest is just too great.
After finishing my associates degree at the local community college (online and brick and mortar), I tried to go to the local state school, but the class schedules were very inconvenient for a parent. After taking a year hiatus, I discovered a not for profit online college Western Governors University. If a student already have experience in a given subject, WGU is a great idea. I would not recommend someone try these programs cold. Just like a brick and mortar college, the finals are proctored at a local college or testing facility (online only test are not reputable) for most classes.
The tuition is very reasonable, less than the state schools. Some of the books are expensive, but that is a universal problem. The IT program has actually been pretty good so far and is unique in that some of the classes also reward industry certifications.
I do miss the networking, but most of the education is very pragmatic compared to credit hour programs. The things that I am learning have actually been useful to me, even some of the fluffy business classes:P
Probably more than half of the people here probably should hold their tongues. If you graduated with a degree in IT or CS back in the 90â(TM)s you were all but guaranteed a job. If you had a pulse and could install an OS, you were set. Many of us and YOU probably got into the field during this period and gained easy experience and qualifications.
Because of economic problems new graduates will have a much harder time getting started than many of us. People are not retiring (they canâ(TM)t) and even entry level help desk positions are requiring years of experience.
Business / IT degree imo should not even be offered at a university because it is a trade degree along with half the other CS / IT degrees made available. Back in the day people that were training for trades were required to intern / journeyman with local companies as part of the process. Now days most companies have absolutely no interest in providing internships and the unions are mostly gone.
In a good economy, a degree should be all that you need to get a decent entry level position. The problem we have now is that there are ten students for every five slots.
Now itâ(TM)s time for our children to pay for our decisions. The real problem is that this so called, âoeService based economyâ is a sham. âoeFree tradeâ is nothing but a way to fleece the middle class. Just pay us to teach you things we know you will probably never get a chance to use. We know you have the money because the fed is backing it, and we have every intention of taping that out to fill our pockets. Good luck with life; all that really matters anyway is me, right?
Careful! You will be marked a heretic by the government for questioning their Christian based legislation.
Anyone else find it odd that US has a registry to track sex offenders, but does not bother tracking those who are convicted of assault and or murder?
No, we should emphasize true learning and get rid of rot memorization based diploma mills that may of the state colleges have become. PhD's were never intended to be so common. There are PhD physics graduates beating down the doors at the local community colleges for even part time work; that is awful.
I am not saying that these guys are not employable; they definitely are, but normally not in any actual scientific work. Why obtain a PhD when a MA or even a BA could easily do the work? It is because there are so many to choose from that they can cherry pick PhD's.
Even without importing skilled workers, there would still be a surplus of qualified workers in the U.S. If the work was so great in Sci and Math fields, students would flock there like they did Computer Science during the bubble. Its just bad risk vs reward:(
While there is a lot of hype about increasing the level of Sci & Math education, I do have reservations. A lot of this hype is just propaganda resulting from corporate lobbying. If there is a shortage, it is because of economics and not education. I see way to many PhD's running community colleges making practically nothing. Its absurd to expect people to rally to a profession that is more demanding and less rewarding than almost any other. How many tenure positions are open vs qualified applicants? I would guess the ratio is at least 50 to 1. Scientist are not only required to get a PhD, but also have to have significant post Doc at almost no pay to be even considered. Scientist do not get to study the fundamentals of the universe, but have to fight tooth and nail for limited funding for earmarked corporate research.
Corporations artificially up qualifications for scientist and engineers, although there are plenty available because they need to ensure enough H-1B visa's are allowed to ensure low cost research. As technology streamlines and consolidates, there is less demand per capita of needed high skill workers. We are pushing all these kids to go into an economy where they are just going to be frustrated. I absolutely love science and math, but we are taking it to far.
The government and cooperations do not emphasize social studies because the more the general populace knows about history, economics, and science combined, the harder they are to manipulate. Science and math alone are just great money makers.
Its a great idea to incorporate other subjects into English classes, but over emphasizing any one subject is unbalanced and harmful.
You are right that not all people have equal potential, and your post seems to accurately reflect that. It is well established that there are multiple types of intelligence: logical, interpersonal etc. I don't know why being strong in logic / programming would make one elite when their interpersonal IQ seem to be lacking. It would make them a bit unbalanced if anything...
What is sad is that your arrogant attitude reflects how little you know about human potential. If given the proper environment almost all humans have the capacity to master technical subjects. It is amusing that you put technical skills so high on a pedestal when they really are logically very simple. A real challenge would be something a bit more academic.
There seems to be an attitude of arrogance in the tech industry, the belief that somehow the computer profession is superior to other technical trades. This type of thinking is unfounded and seems to be self correcting.
You are not looking at it in the same frame as the writer; they are talking about mainstream job opportunities and not the specialized market of development. Out of all the companies out there, how many need to create drivers, operating systems, games etc. They are referring to the every day corporate programmer, like old school COBOL monkeys. With the rapid development tools out today there is no reason to write code in a lower lvl C based language when you can just click and drag...
This is even more true when you consider the consolidation of the computer development industry. How many companies make mass market operating systems? How many companies make video cards? Its happening in the gaming industry too.
I can't help but think that dark matter screams of the historical theory of the Ether. That these phenomena could be explained if this ether / subatomic mass was factored into the equations.
Slashdot Mirror
"...since it's so disturbingly twisted."(Ark) Now who is the one misrepresenting a post?
"This can be remedied by saying that to me in public ;)"(Ark). I'd love to, then I could have a much more interactive discussion.
"Letting your child outside to play is a normal thing."EP Unless you live in a heavy urban area. Then you take a a few days of the week to go to the park and enroll children into community center activities. Letting kids play in the commons of large apartments etc is not rational.
"What happens instead is that kids are raised by video games and TV, which overstimulate the kids without allowing them to physically tire themselves out. That's where the drugs come in."(EP)
Essentially he is saying that because children are overstimulated indoors they need medication. They would only be able to have this medication if they were diagnosed ADHD. He is also saying that children who do go outside would not be overstimulated thus not need the medication...
"He wasn't pushing values on others nonchalantly"(Ark)
He put forth a basic argument, an argument that under-stimulated children are more prone to be medicated with ADHD meds. This is inherently persuasive because no one wants their children to be medicated.
My overall point is that children being constantly pushed out doors is not any better than the alternative; especially in urban environments.
However, you are probably right that I started my response in an unnecessarily combative tone. It is /. after all :P
Please don't try to push your values on others so nonchalantly. Forcing actual ADHD children outside will not cure nor prevent the condition. There is no good reason to push children out the door and let them play unsupervised, especially in an urban environment.
I don't understand why people think the outdoors is a magic fix all. It does not inherently make you skinny, healthy, or more well rounded. Not everyone lives in the burbs etc.
The prevalent behavioral problems that resemble ADHD have much more to do with two income families and a school environment that is unable to provide an engaging atmosphere.
Teachers reading text verbatim, bubble test, and rot memorization; who can blame children for not being focused.
Why Kids Are Turned Off To Medical Classes
or
Why Kids are Turned Off To Law Classes
Ask yourself why these are not the headings of more articles, and then you will have a better understanding of the “nerd” crisis.
The reason that computing, science, and other “nerdy” occupations are not popular is not because “it’s so hard”, but because the carrot is so comparatively small. Medical schools have a reputation of grueling academic and personal sacrifice, but they still thrive.
The future outlook in “nerdy” fields as of late is not so good. I know that I would not recommend them to any but the most dedicated. Maybe it’s arrogance that allows “nerds” to think that their work is somehow so much more complex than medicine and other professional positions that their field is suffering a lack of interest; ignoring the fact that the entire western technical and scientific sectors are in unprecedented economic turmoil.
Maybe it’s because the science and computing fields lack strong influential governing bodies such as the medical and legal licensing organizations. “Nerdy” fields are not as well respected in the West as they are in the East. Employment is very volatile, and extremely anti-family. There is no long term security, and ageism is rampant. The list just goes on, and on.
I know of people with PHd’s in physics etc. that can’t find decent work; that is ridiculous! They roam around from college to college so often that I have nick named them, “gypsy professors”. Once upon a time, they would have been considered national treasures.
It’s just economics; Too many people, too little need for “nerds”.
I honestly believe for profit higher education should not qualify for subsidized government loans. Why should a company be able to secure government funding for private profit? The conflict of interest is just too great.
After finishing my associates degree at the local community college (online and brick and mortar), I tried to go to the local state school, but the class schedules were very inconvenient for a parent. After taking a year hiatus, I discovered a not for profit online college Western Governors University.
If a student already have experience in a given subject, WGU is a great idea. I would not recommend someone try these programs cold. Just like a brick and mortar college, the finals are proctored at a local college or testing facility (online only test are not reputable) for most classes.
The tuition is very reasonable, less than the state schools. Some of the books are expensive, but that is a universal problem. The IT program has actually been pretty good so far and is unique in that some of the classes also reward industry certifications.
I do miss the networking, but most of the education is very pragmatic compared to credit hour programs. The things that I am learning have actually been useful to me, even some of the fluffy business classes :P
Damn formatting. This is what I get for using Word :P
Probably more than half of the people here probably should hold their tongues. If you graduated with a degree in IT or CS back in the 90â(TM)s you were all but guaranteed a job. If you had a pulse and could install an OS, you were set. Many of us and YOU probably got into the field during this period and gained easy experience and qualifications.
Because of economic problems new graduates will have a much harder time getting started than many of us. People are not retiring (they canâ(TM)t) and even entry level help desk positions are requiring years of experience.
Business / IT degree imo should not even be offered at a university because it is a trade degree along with half the other CS / IT degrees made available. Back in the day people that were training for trades were required to intern / journeyman with local companies as part of the process. Now days most companies have absolutely no interest in providing internships and the unions are mostly gone.
In a good economy, a degree should be all that you need to get a decent entry level position. The problem we have now is that there are ten students for every five slots.
Now itâ(TM)s time for our children to pay for our decisions. The real problem is that this so called, âoeService based economyâ is a sham. âoeFree tradeâ is nothing but a way to fleece the middle class. Just pay us to teach you things we know you will probably never get a chance to use. We know you have the money because the fed is backing it, and we have every intention of taping that out to fill our pockets. Good luck with life; all that really matters anyway is me, right?
Careful! You will be marked a heretic by the government for questioning their Christian based legislation. Anyone else find it odd that US has a registry to track sex offenders, but does not bother tracking those who are convicted of assault and or murder?
No, we should emphasize true learning and get rid of rot memorization based diploma mills that may of the state colleges have become. PhD's were never intended to be so common. There are PhD physics graduates beating down the doors at the local community colleges for even part time work; that is awful.
:(
I am not saying that these guys are not employable; they definitely are, but normally not in any actual scientific work.
Why obtain a PhD when a MA or even a BA could easily do the work? It is because there are so many to choose from that they can cherry pick PhD's.
Even without importing skilled workers, there would still be a surplus of qualified workers in the U.S. If the work was so great in Sci and Math fields, students would flock there like they did Computer Science during the bubble. Its just bad risk vs reward
While there is a lot of hype about increasing the level of Sci & Math education, I do have reservations. A lot of this hype is just propaganda resulting from corporate lobbying. If there is a shortage, it is because of economics and not education. I see way to many PhD's running community colleges making practically nothing. Its absurd to expect people to rally to a profession that is more demanding and less rewarding than almost any other. How many tenure positions are open vs qualified applicants? I would guess the ratio is at least 50 to 1. Scientist are not only required to get a PhD, but also have to have significant post Doc at almost no pay to be even considered. Scientist do not get to study the fundamentals of the universe, but have to fight tooth and nail for limited funding for earmarked corporate research. Corporations artificially up qualifications for scientist and engineers, although there are plenty available because they need to ensure enough H-1B visa's are allowed to ensure low cost research. As technology streamlines and consolidates, there is less demand per capita of needed high skill workers. We are pushing all these kids to go into an economy where they are just going to be frustrated. I absolutely love science and math, but we are taking it to far. The government and cooperations do not emphasize social studies because the more the general populace knows about history, economics, and science combined, the harder they are to manipulate. Science and math alone are just great money makers. Its a great idea to incorporate other subjects into English classes, but over emphasizing any one subject is unbalanced and harmful.
You are right that not all people have equal potential, and your post seems to accurately reflect that. It is well established that there are multiple types of intelligence: logical, interpersonal etc. I don't know why being strong in logic / programming would make one elite when their interpersonal IQ seem to be lacking. It would make them a bit unbalanced if anything...
What is sad is that your arrogant attitude reflects how little you know about human potential. If given the proper environment almost all humans have the capacity to master technical subjects. It is amusing that you put technical skills so high on a pedestal when they really are logically very simple. A real challenge would be something a bit more academic.
There seems to be an attitude of arrogance in the tech industry, the belief that somehow the computer profession is superior to other technical trades. This type of thinking is unfounded and seems to be self correcting.
You are not looking at it in the same frame as the writer; they are talking about mainstream job opportunities and not the specialized market of development. Out of all the companies out there, how many need to create drivers, operating systems, games etc. They are referring to the every day corporate programmer, like old school COBOL monkeys. With the rapid development tools out today there is no reason to write code in a lower lvl C based language when you can just click and drag...
This is even more true when you consider the consolidation of the computer development industry. How many companies make mass market operating systems? How many companies make video cards? Its happening in the gaming industry too.
I can't help but think that dark matter screams of the historical theory of the Ether. That these phenomena could be explained if this ether / subatomic mass was factored into the equations.