I've found 'logical' arguments to not work in this sort of debate.
We could lower taxes to 1% and people would STILL clamor for 'lower taxes.' Maybe the lower taxes side needs to come out and give us an actual number. How much is this 'optimum'?
So, if it takes 278k to create one 40k job, where did the remaining 238k go? Up in flames? Into the luminescent ether?
An economy is little more than the movement of money from point A to point B. Here we have point A of 278k. Then there's a point B of 40k. But there's also going to be a point B of, oh, let's say 20k for human resources. 10k for materials.
Numbers are, essentially, pulled out of point C (for colon) but it's the theory that's important, not the numbers per se. That 238k doesn't vanish; that's money, not some stock value. It's doing something.
Now, I won't say this is not open to exploitation and abuse. I also won't argue that, under an itemized examination, it is the most efficient way. But I will say there is going to be overhead. There's always overhead. Even in the most efficient, streamlined process, there's overhead, and that overhead ALSO contributes to the economy.
Job killing tax hikes. That's a laugh. How many jobs were killed under the lowest tax rates ever since the 1940s? Wait, I'm sorry, history for you doesn't exist prior to January 2009... (And you thought creationists were easy to make fun of with their 6000 years of history...these folks whitewash the day they were born from the map!)
Here's another fact your side loves to trot out: 47% pay no federal income tax. You know WHY that is? Well, once they pay for little things like food, shelter, clothing...there's nothing left to tax. Fancy that... So all those evil evil welfare programs are in place so they're able to survive without having to riot for food. Provide a living wage, people can get off welfare programs AND have disposable income to buy new iFruits. The economy MOVES.
Course, I think it's a good thing when the population as a whole has money to spend rather than 1% hoarding it all in Scrooge McDuck like towers...but I only had 4 weeks of economics class in high school...
Flag on the statement....the "outdated business method" is to expect payment for something which cost $200 million to produce... is not what the argument is.
Most people will pay for media, legitimately, if they have reasonable access to it.
In a global environment, there is a problem when the US gets Drama episode Season 1 Episode 7 June 1, and the EU gets it Sept 17. People would acquire it legally if they had a legal channel to it. Take me for example. I'd love to purchase DVD sets of Whose Line Is It Anyway? seasons 3 to 10, but they're not available for sale in the US. Nor is The Chaser's War on Everything. (The former isn't available at all...well, outside streaming from BBC4 which I'd have to proxy to get through; the latter would require a multi-region DVD player and possibly an NTSC-PAL conversion of some sort, hoops not worth jumping through.)
The other part of the argument is the time span. Why should we still pay through the nose for media made a half-century before I was born? Did Sir Arthur Conan Doyle intend for lawyers to be reaping the benefits of Holmes long after his death? Imagine if copyright extended farther back. Eine Kleine Nachtmusik still funding the estate of Mozart. Shakespeare. Homer. I'm not a fan of the slippery slope argument, but could, 500 years into the future, people still have to pay Disney (or whatever company it's mutated into) for the rights to Mickey?
The world isn't black or white, it's just shades of brown...
Then don't take the shortcut of looking at the number and instead look at the changes.
Or stick with IE6...seems to work for a lot of companies...
Re:They've got a point
on
Happy Tau Day
·
· Score: 1
...are you just scoring it based on aesthetics?
Yes. If I wanted to simplify the equation, I could just boil it all down to "1=1" and who gives a toss? That's what an equation is. Left side equals right side. No more, no less.
Using pi, you can see the entire foundation of mathematics. With tau, it's there...but not quite. Like cutting the background out of Gainsborough's The Blue Boy. The portrait remains but you lose depth and contrast. You might not notice the background looking at the portrait, but you still feel its presence.
Equations are equations. Use them once, when you need them, and then they fade away. y=4x+7, [ ( -9 (+/-) ( 81 - 4*1*5 ) ^.5 ) / 2 ] = j , f=ma.
The way people are bellyaching around here, you'd think Microsoft Patch Tuesdays cause nuclear apocalypses every month. Any change in software can cause unexpected results, but if you think 4.0 to 5.0 is anything more than what MS does monthly, what's wrong with you?
Never worked in an environment where corporate security is paranoid, have you? Corporate security hasn't even approved FF 4 for use on our workstations yet.
What version of IE are you using? Do you even have updates from March installed yet?
Re:They've got a point
on
Happy Tau Day
·
· Score: 2
You lose the concepts of addition and zero in that.
The elegance of e^(i*pi)+1=0 is that it includes addition, multiplication, exponents, e, i, pi, 0, 1 and equality. Basically, everything that forms the foundations of math is included. You exclude zero and addition, well, who cares if you're using pi, tau, lambda or cheese whiz?
Re:They've got a point
on
Happy Tau Day
·
· Score: 2
You lose the addition and the zero, though. If ANYTHING in math can be considered fundamental, it's + and 0, along with 1.
Everything else is gravy.
Simplifying the equation loses the elegance it has. Also, tacking "+ 0" to the end of the tau version is an uglier hack than "+1 = 0"...when do you ever regularly add zero.
Slashdot Mirror
We do. Regularly. You can't fight a religious war with facts, though.
Businesses are sitting on $2 trillion in cash.
Government spends everything it brings in (and then some).
Who's the retard, again?
I've found 'logical' arguments to not work in this sort of debate.
We could lower taxes to 1% and people would STILL clamor for 'lower taxes.'
Maybe the lower taxes side needs to come out and give us an actual number. How much is this 'optimum'?
So, if it takes 278k to create one 40k job, where did the remaining 238k go? Up in flames? Into the luminescent ether?
An economy is little more than the movement of money from point A to point B.
Here we have point A of 278k. Then there's a point B of 40k. But there's also going to be a point B of, oh, let's say 20k for human resources. 10k for materials.
Numbers are, essentially, pulled out of point C (for colon) but it's the theory that's important, not the numbers per se. That 238k doesn't vanish; that's money, not some stock value. It's doing something.
Now, I won't say this is not open to exploitation and abuse. I also won't argue that, under an itemized examination, it is the most efficient way. But I will say there is going to be overhead. There's always overhead. Even in the most efficient, streamlined process, there's overhead, and that overhead ALSO contributes to the economy.
Even beancounters need to eat.
Facts? We don't need no steenking facts!!
Job killing tax hikes. That's a laugh. How many jobs were killed under the lowest tax rates ever since the 1940s? Wait, I'm sorry, history for you doesn't exist prior to January 2009... (And you thought creationists were easy to make fun of with their 6000 years of history...these folks whitewash the day they were born from the map!)
Here's another fact your side loves to trot out: 47% pay no federal income tax.
You know WHY that is?
Well, once they pay for little things like food, shelter, clothing...there's nothing left to tax. Fancy that... So all those evil evil welfare programs are in place so they're able to survive without having to riot for food. Provide a living wage, people can get off welfare programs AND have disposable income to buy new iFruits. The economy MOVES.
Course, I think it's a good thing when the population as a whole has money to spend rather than 1% hoarding it all in Scrooge McDuck like towers...but I only had 4 weeks of economics class in high school...
Eh, yeah, there's some very stupid going on, but also, taxation inherently harms the economy by destroying value.
Of course, taking that to the absurd extreme, zero taxation would mean a perfect economy.
So break out some of that ol' can-do American ingenuity and invent an energy efficient incandescent bulb.
We built the Saturn V and Apollo. We built the transistor. Why the fuck can't we make a measly ol' light bulb?
And you think Sony's only paying their lawyers $100k? That'd barely cover Friday's donuts.
It's called a 'hypothetical example.'
Would you have instead preferred "spent $x on my lawyer, my risk would be $1.2x because their $20x lawyers would be an excessive defense"?
Real artists also had wealthy patrons subsidizing them for most of history.
Flag on the statement. ...the "outdated business method" is to expect payment for something which cost $200 million to produce... is not what the argument is.
Most people will pay for media, legitimately, if they have reasonable access to it.
In a global environment, there is a problem when the US gets Drama episode Season 1 Episode 7 June 1, and the EU gets it Sept 17. People would acquire it legally if they had a legal channel to it. Take me for example. I'd love to purchase DVD sets of Whose Line Is It Anyway? seasons 3 to 10, but they're not available for sale in the US. Nor is The Chaser's War on Everything. (The former isn't available at all...well, outside streaming from BBC4 which I'd have to proxy to get through; the latter would require a multi-region DVD player and possibly an NTSC-PAL conversion of some sort, hoops not worth jumping through.)
The other part of the argument is the time span. Why should we still pay through the nose for media made a half-century before I was born? Did Sir Arthur Conan Doyle intend for lawyers to be reaping the benefits of Holmes long after his death? Imagine if copyright extended farther back. Eine Kleine Nachtmusik still funding the estate of Mozart. Shakespeare. Homer. I'm not a fan of the slippery slope argument, but could, 500 years into the future, people still have to pay Disney (or whatever company it's mutated into) for the rights to Mickey?
The world isn't black or white, it's just shades of brown...
Then don't take the shortcut of looking at the number and instead look at the changes.
Or stick with IE6...seems to work for a lot of companies...
...are you just scoring it based on aesthetics?
Yes.
If I wanted to simplify the equation, I could just boil it all down to "1=1" and who gives a toss? That's what an equation is. Left side equals right side. No more, no less.
Using pi, you can see the entire foundation of mathematics. With tau, it's there...but not quite. Like cutting the background out of Gainsborough's The Blue Boy. The portrait remains but you lose depth and contrast. You might not notice the background looking at the portrait, but you still feel its presence.
Equations are equations. Use them once, when you need them, and then they fade away.
y=4x+7, [ ( -9 (+/-) ( 81 - 4*1*5 ) ^.5 ) / 2 ] = j , f=ma.
e^(i*pi)+1=0 , though, is art.
Or http://blog.mozilla.com/addons/2011/05/21/firefox-5-compatibility-bump/ worked for what I have
Exactly.
The way people are bellyaching around here, you'd think Microsoft Patch Tuesdays cause nuclear apocalypses every month. Any change in software can cause unexpected results, but if you think 4.0 to 5.0 is anything more than what MS does monthly, what's wrong with you?
Chrome updates regularly, and often transparently. IE gets patches every month usually.
Do you let those sit in limbo until your testing?
http://blog.mozilla.com/addons/2011/05/21/firefox-5-compatibility-bump/
http://blog.mozilla.com/addons/2011/05/21/firefox-5-compatibility-bump/
Never worked in an environment where corporate security is paranoid, have you? Corporate security hasn't even approved FF 4 for use on our workstations yet.
What version of IE are you using? Do you even have updates from March installed yet?
You lose the concepts of addition and zero in that.
The elegance of e^(i*pi)+1=0 is that it includes addition, multiplication, exponents, e, i, pi, 0, 1 and equality.
Basically, everything that forms the foundations of math is included. You exclude zero and addition, well, who cares if you're using pi, tau, lambda or cheese whiz?
You lose the addition and the zero, though. If ANYTHING in math can be considered fundamental, it's + and 0, along with 1.
Everything else is gravy.
Simplifying the equation loses the elegance it has. Also, tacking "+ 0" to the end of the tau version is an uglier hack than "+1 = 0"...when do you ever regularly add zero.
This is the reason IE 6 continues to stay strong in enterprise.
Don't think your argument has the intended effect you want it to...
Actually, as a browser it DOES need features on a consistent basis. Or maybe you'd like HTML 5 some time around 2023?
How do they handle Patch Tuesday then? Are they finally getting MS (read: IE) critical updates from March?
What addons are broken?
Also: http://blog.mozilla.com/addons/2011/05/21/firefox-5-compatibility-bump/