But these aren't the people that Larson are talking about, because if you end up in a potential conversation with them about their "idea", the NDA is the least of your worries.
Actually, they are exactly the type of people Larson was talking about.
The reality is, there are perfectly good reasons to want someone to sign an NDA.
Yes, there are. But read the fucking article. He's not talking about those legitimate reasons. He's talking about the 90% of times when it's just some "idea man" who thinks they're going to be able to out-Facebook Facebook.
If you have a great idea for a product or a new iPhone app, for example, do don't want to lay out all of the details to a web developer who may want to be an entrepreneur of his own.
If you're that fucking terrified, then learn to do it on your own. Like has been said, your idea is not likely to be original, and odds are the programmer has their own ideas.
You are a fool if you don't protect your good ideas in this way as you go about looking for someone to build out your magic application.
And you are a fool if you think someone is going to sign your NDA before any actual, legitimate business is on the table. Tell me, what incentive is there for me to sign your NDA? Working on your crappy app for a cut of the profits? No thanks.
You clearly did not read the fucking article, did you?
He's not talking about your situation. In your situation, there's an actual business plan in place. There's an actual company there, and you're offering him actual employment, not the promise of future earnings.
If you're not doing something you're not suppose to, what's the problem with signing?
If you're got nothing to hide, then you shouldn't mind if I come over to your house and rummage around through everything.
If you refuse to sign, that's huge red flags
No, it's not. Asking someone to sign on the first meeting, before anything has actually been talked about is a huge red flag. It indicates you have no idea what the fuck you're doing.
and they can hire another programmer
Good for them. Then someone else can get fucked over when your idea turns out to be shit.
No they don't. No employee anywhere owes an employer anything beyond the 8 hours a day they are paid for. Corporate America has made it very clear that they feel they don't owe shit to us, so why the fuck should we feel we owe shit to them?
Isn't the responsibility on them to verify what they're signing? I would imagine actually signing the fucking contract is proof that they knew that he did that.
Under some circumstances, not having an NDA can kill your ability to get a patent.
I fail to see how. Further, I fail to see why this is a problem. Software patents suck.
And as the GP said, good investors will want to ensure that you have adequately protected the idea. Because the value in your business is not your cool ideas; it's cool ideas that you have some enforceable proprietary interest in.
Do you honestly think that someone who's called you up and says they want you to work on something that's "like _____, but for _____," is actually close to having VC funding?
We sign the NDAs he won't and get the jobs he can't.
The jobs he's talking about, you don't want. They're the types of jobs where the "idea person" expects you to do 90% of the work for 10% of the potential reward. They're the types of jobs where you're going to be slaving away on stupid shit for nothing.
I don't give a fuck what you do at home. The fact of the matter is, the McDonald's coffee was dangerously hot, and they were found to be extremely fucking negligent in serving it. Their containers were not suitable for liquids that hot, either.
You assume a whole bunch of bullshit which is not true. The coffee melted her genitals off, and gave her 3rd degree burns. That is fact. McDonalds was in the wrong; deal with it.
Sure, but in the "loser pays" system, the semi-frivolous lawsuits result in the plaintiff being out of quite a lot of money and the defendant no worse off, while in the American system, the defendant is also out of quite a lot of money.
And if I've been harmed, but cannot prevail in court, now I'm not only out what I've been harmed, but I'm out the other side's legal fees.
if you sue for some stupid thing (like the lady who sued McDonald's because hot coffee was hot),
That was NOT a stupid lawsuit. The coffee was dangerously hot, and she had her genitals melted the fuck off. This McDonald's had been cited over 700 times before stating that their coffee was too damn hot. And it was revealed that they specifically kept it that hot so they could keep costs down. Further, she only asked for her medical bills to be paid. McDonalds told her to pound sand. So the jury awarded her one day's worth of profit from their coffee.
And you're making the assumption that the right side always wins. If I was wronged by a large company, I would be hesitant to bring a lawsuit, because if I lose, I am liable for their legal bills, which are likely far more than I can pay.
Until they implement loser pays so that the winners can get their lawyer bills reimbursed, court fights will always be won based on who has bigger legal muscles, and not on the merits of the case.
Loser pays is not a cure-all for that situation. It serves as an even bigger deterrent to file a suit when one was legitimately harmed by a large company, because they might have the weight of the big company's legal bills dangling over them like a Sword of Damocles.
What a great counter argument. He has a blog and is therefore a well-known successful freelance programmer, and because of that he's not naive about the common requirements for obtaining funding...
1). No, I don't think he's naive about common requirements for obtaining funding.
2). The type of people that this post is directed to are NOWHERE NEAR getting funding. And likely, they never will, as they don't have any kind of actual business plan. If we're actually talking with VCs, then yes, I will be willing to consider signing an NDA. Not when you've just come up with the idea.
There are perfectly valid and logical reasons to have someone who can implement your idea sign an NDA
Agreed, there are valid reasons. Unfortunately, 90% of the time someone asks you to sign one, it isn't one of those situations.
And if you're one of those idiots that have some great idea and are just looking for code monkeys to do the work for you, GTFO, I have good ideas myself.
And if you're like me, you don't actually have any ideas. But neither does Mr/Ms "Entrepreneur Person". And I have better things to do with my time, like play Xbox.
I tell you what: At the point where a VC is actually willing to give us money, then I will sign your NDA. Not before you've actually given me any reason to do so.
You might want to try actually planning out your shit before you write it. Your program sounds like it would be something they give programmers in the 7th circle of hell to maintain.
While everything you said is possible, I find the interface used to be much, much better in this demo than having to hunt all over files to do the same thing.
Slashdot Mirror
But these aren't the people that Larson are talking about, because if you end up in a potential conversation with them about their "idea", the NDA is the least of your worries.
Actually, they are exactly the type of people Larson was talking about.
If you've actually got a legitimate business plan, and funding in place, then an NDA might be appropriate. Until you've got those, I'm not signing.
The reality is, there are perfectly good reasons to want someone to sign an NDA.
Yes, there are. But read the fucking article. He's not talking about those legitimate reasons. He's talking about the 90% of times when it's just some "idea man" who thinks they're going to be able to out-Facebook Facebook.
If you have a great idea for a product or a new iPhone app, for example, do don't want to lay out all of the details to a web developer who may want to be an entrepreneur of his own.
If you're that fucking terrified, then learn to do it on your own. Like has been said, your idea is not likely to be original, and odds are the programmer has their own ideas.
You are a fool if you don't protect your good ideas in this way as you go about looking for someone to build out your magic application.
And you are a fool if you think someone is going to sign your NDA before any actual, legitimate business is on the table. Tell me, what incentive is there for me to sign your NDA? Working on your crappy app for a cut of the profits? No thanks.
You clearly did not read the fucking article, did you?
He's not talking about your situation. In your situation, there's an actual business plan in place. There's an actual company there, and you're offering him actual employment, not the promise of future earnings.
If you're not doing something you're not suppose to, what's the problem with signing?
If you're got nothing to hide, then you shouldn't mind if I come over to your house and rummage around through everything.
If you refuse to sign, that's huge red flags
No, it's not. Asking someone to sign on the first meeting, before anything has actually been talked about is a huge red flag. It indicates you have no idea what the fuck you're doing.
and they can hire another programmer
Good for them. Then someone else can get fucked over when your idea turns out to be shit.
Yes it does. Most of the people who would require an NDA before telling you about the fucking project aren't the type who are going to pay off anyway.
Employees owe their employers a duty
No they don't. No employee anywhere owes an employer anything beyond the 8 hours a day they are paid for. Corporate America has made it very clear that they feel they don't owe shit to us, so why the fuck should we feel we owe shit to them?
Isn't the responsibility on them to verify what they're signing? I would imagine actually signing the fucking contract is proof that they knew that he did that.
Under some circumstances, not having an NDA can kill your ability to get a patent.
I fail to see how. Further, I fail to see why this is a problem. Software patents suck.
And as the GP said, good investors will want to ensure that you have adequately protected the idea. Because the value in your business is not your cool ideas; it's cool ideas that you have some enforceable proprietary interest in.
Do you honestly think that someone who's called you up and says they want you to work on something that's "like _____, but for _____," is actually close to having VC funding?
We sign the NDAs he won't and get the jobs he can't.
The jobs he's talking about, you don't want. They're the types of jobs where the "idea person" expects you to do 90% of the work for 10% of the potential reward. They're the types of jobs where you're going to be slaving away on stupid shit for nothing.
I don't give a fuck what you do at home. The fact of the matter is, the McDonald's coffee was dangerously hot, and they were found to be extremely fucking negligent in serving it. Their containers were not suitable for liquids that hot, either.
You assume a whole bunch of bullshit which is not true. The coffee melted her genitals off, and gave her 3rd degree burns. That is fact. McDonalds was in the wrong; deal with it.
Sure, but in the "loser pays" system, the semi-frivolous lawsuits result in the plaintiff being out of quite a lot of money and the defendant no worse off, while in the American system, the defendant is also out of quite a lot of money.
And if I've been harmed, but cannot prevail in court, now I'm not only out what I've been harmed, but I'm out the other side's legal fees.
if you sue for some stupid thing (like the lady who sued McDonald's because hot coffee was hot),
That was NOT a stupid lawsuit. The coffee was dangerously hot, and she had her genitals melted the fuck off. This McDonald's had been cited over 700 times before stating that their coffee was too damn hot. And it was revealed that they specifically kept it that hot so they could keep costs down. Further, she only asked for her medical bills to be paid. McDonalds told her to pound sand. So the jury awarded her one day's worth of profit from their coffee.
And you're making the assumption that the right side always wins. If I was wronged by a large company, I would be hesitant to bring a lawsuit, because if I lose, I am liable for their legal bills, which are likely far more than I can pay.
Until they implement loser pays so that the winners can get their lawyer bills reimbursed, court fights will always be won based on who has bigger legal muscles, and not on the merits of the case.
Loser pays is not a cure-all for that situation. It serves as an even bigger deterrent to file a suit when one was legitimately harmed by a large company, because they might have the weight of the big company's legal bills dangling over them like a Sword of Damocles.
Presumably, that 12-18 months would give the original party time enough to get their product to market.
What a great counter argument. He has a blog and is therefore a well-known successful freelance programmer, and because of that he's not naive about the common requirements for obtaining funding...
1). No, I don't think he's naive about common requirements for obtaining funding.
2). The type of people that this post is directed to are NOWHERE NEAR getting funding. And likely, they never will, as they don't have any kind of actual business plan. If we're actually talking with VCs, then yes, I will be willing to consider signing an NDA. Not when you've just come up with the idea.
There are perfectly valid and logical reasons to have someone who can implement your idea sign an NDA
Agreed, there are valid reasons. Unfortunately, 90% of the time someone asks you to sign one, it isn't one of those situations.
And if you're one of those idiots that have some great idea and are just looking for code monkeys to do the work for you, GTFO, I have good ideas myself.
And if you're like me, you don't actually have any ideas. But neither does Mr/Ms "Entrepreneur Person". And I have better things to do with my time, like play Xbox.
I tell you what: At the point where a VC is actually willing to give us money, then I will sign your NDA. Not before you've actually given me any reason to do so.
You might want to try actually planning out your shit before you write it. Your program sounds like it would be something they give programmers in the 7th circle of hell to maintain.
Blah blah blah, coding hipster comment.
You forgot the part where you tell us to get off your lawn.
While everything you said is possible, I find the interface used to be much, much better in this demo than having to hunt all over files to do the same thing.
People who either think it's extremely cool, or think that it would help them be more productive.
Not much harder then visualizing 300 line long functions (plus one more to glue them together).
Odds are I don't care about all 300 at the same time. I only care about a couple of them at once.
Yes, but the programmer still has to do that splitting manually.
I have to say, I hate having to jump around multiple files, and multiple places in the files, to be able to see something.