Oh my god read my fucking point. I'm not saying Apple had a choice, I'm saying Apple created and delivered a fucked version of maps and users around the world ridiculed, complained, and sought alternatives. A hardware company is never just a hardware company, that is my one and only statement, and if Apple deliver their next iPhone without any OS installed and don't provide an OS, few if any people will buy it.
So stop clinging on to your "it's someone else's fault" comeback while completely missing the point of why I mentioned maps to begin with. The only one sounding silly here is you with your ranting defense of apple which makes zero sense in the context of the debate.
Perhaps I did not state my original point exactly correctly. What I really meant is that Apple's business model is to drive Hardware, not Software, Sales. For the most part, Apple views it's Software as a vehicle to drive its Hardware Sales. If they felt that they could contract out their software design and development and acheive the same level of quality (Maps.app notwithstanding) and integration, I would bet they would.
My point is, That is in stark contrast to Microsoft and Google, who PRIMARILY have Software Products.
But to follow your definition to its logical extreme, every company that produces peripherals like scanners and printers that happen to come with drivers and "helper" applications is automatically considered also a Software Vendor. Technically correct; but it misses the bigger picture.
...there upon the wall was a print of Albert Einstein standing by a chalk board with a tiny apple logo in the corner besides the words "Think Different." I took another sip and muddled over the message behind such a profound image as it connected with me how I was experiencing so many things that evening that opened my eyes
LOL. I guess ya gotta take your revelations where and how ya get 'em!!!
But that's an iconic poster, for sure, and EXACTLY exemplifies Apple's corporate attitude, it's ability to tap into the inner hopes and dreams of us ordinary people, without being condescending, high-handed, or in any way disrespectful.
Irrelevant in the face of user complaints. The point is no matter how much you think apple is a hardware company its users will grill it for bad software.
They can keep on making solid gold watches, unless their software keeps up they will lose against the competition.
The only reason you say that is "irrelevant" is that it nicely defeats your specious statement about Apple Maps. The truth is, Apple didn't have a choice with the Google Maps thing; Google knew they had Apple by the short hairs, and decided to start pulling... Apple IN NO WAY wanted to develop a mapping service, period.
Apple "Losing"? That's a good one! A LOT of Companies would like to be "losing" like Apple is!
So, hate on, hater boy; the more you rant, the sillier you sound.
Tempting but I've been a core PC gamer all my life. If one day Macs surpass PCs in gaming them perhaps.... but baby steps first, and the phone is a nice start.
Still getting all the voice, plain text as entered/displayed, images, gps as always no matter the 3rd party application level 'programming'. The setting out of CALEA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] was clear. A device for sale in the USA would have to be built-in surveillance ready at the carriers and manufacturers level. Also note the use of Trusted Third Parties on the networks and the need for real-time surveillance:)
And what does any of this have to do with Apple?
The Digital Telephony Act of 1994 and CALEA were both, IIRC, aimed not at the producers of "handsets", such as the iPhone and Android phone; but rather the manufacturers of "Telco" equipment, such as you would find in a "CO" (Central Office). None of the equipment in question is under the control of an End-User; but rather is the property of, and under the direct control of, your friendly neighborhood Telco or Wireless Carrier.
IOW, stuff that is way outside of Apple's product line.
Summary: Joseph Gonzalez, co-founder of Dato, is miffed that his product is unable to exploit Apple's user base an it is hurting their revenue stream. He whines about it to Reuters and they write a sensationalist article. The end.
What? Can't he get enough Android user data? To hear the Slashtards talk, they own so much of the marketshare that the iOS data should be but a blip on the graph?
If they didn't need to monetize because they're "the most profitable company of the world", why were they caught as the ringleader of price-fixing e-books?
And, assuming that was actually true, how did that affect your (or anyone's) PRIVACY?
and care about their software and control of their software so much that they take perfectly good working software (like Google Maps), and decide to completely roll their own version.
You realize of course, that Apple got told by Google that they could NOT use Google Maps for Turn-by-Turn Navigation. THAT'S why they created their own Mapping service.
I ASSURE you, that was exactly NOT what they wanted to do. But Google was trying to play hardball with Android, and not letting Apple come to the Mapping party.
This is good propaganda for Apple. I don't believe it.
The security of the iDevice is stunningly bad, and has been for years. It has more holes than swiss cheese. If a 3-letter agency wants data from a device, they barely have to ask.
If I were a 3-letter agency, I would use a ploy like this to tempt terrorists or wanna-be's to feel special using something amazingly insecure.
My father and his friends all worked for Big Blue during their golden years selling/installing mainframes and I've had a PC in the house my entire life. Never once have I ever considering paying for over-hyped over-priced Apple "toys" until now. I simply cannot ignore the facts anymore that Apple makes the best phones on the market with sound security while Android and Windows erode away, and articles like this go a long way towards making me feel confident about my purchase. I'm very impressed with my 5s.
So, stick your other foot in the water and buy a MacBook Pro and run OS X on it. You'll wonder why you ever waited this long. Trust me.
If they private keys are stored on the device in a TPM or some sort of special hardware chip, It may not be possible for Apple to comply at all, even if they pushed a malicious software update if the chip provides no means to extract the private key it is a non-starter. You'd have to have physical access to the device and disassemble it.
From what I understand, that is precisely how it is designed.
Remember the Yahoo CEO? Give the government full access to the data of be accused of treason. Rest assured that Apple handed over all the data already decrypted given the remote access they have to all devices, and therefore all keystrokes. The court battle is just posturing.
If these work similar to BlackBerry and BIS did, the key's are on the device itself, and the public key is registered with the iMessage service. When a message is sent to another party it is encrypted with their public key. The matching private key is not in apples possession, it is on a chip in the other parties phone. If this chip was designed correctly, there is no way to extract the private key without disassembling it. So legitimately, Apple may not be able to service this request.
No way would the FBI want to do this, since it would set the precedent that surrendering the encryption key to that data would be self incrimination.
They have a vested interest in the encrypted data being treated as legally the same as the unencrypted data, since they don't want legal precedent for a fifth amendment defence on encryption keys being ruled on by a court. There's no solid case law on that one way or the other right now.
Great! I believe you are right on in your analysis.
Then Apple can just hand over the encrypted messages and say "We responded fully". Cool.
In the end, government will get its way. Sadly. This is the world we live in. It's going to end up "for the children".
Stop being a defeatist. Apple has smarter lawyers than the Gummint, and just wait until the Amicus Briefs start flying. Since this has already been elevated into the public attention, expect some "strange bedfellows" to come to Apple's defense.
Long story short, Apple COULD provide real-time access to encrypted messages, but it would take a little work to sneak that in, and eventually someone would find it.
Or maybe, just maybe, Apple really doesn't like what the Gummint is doing, and is doing everything in its power to passively-resist.
Did you ever ONCE stop to consider that possibility?
Just send the encrypted messages. That way you're complying with the order.
Apple knows good and well that the DoJ could easily fool some ignorant/fascist Judge to conclude that Apple was being "unresponsive" to the Request, or even worse, was deliberately "Obstructing Justice".
Isn't this wonderful? From the Fourth Amendment, we now have a situation where Privacy == Obstruction.
Slashdot Mirror
Only 32gb and 64gb versions ? Welcome to 10 years ago !
What all is it storing locally?
These days in Apple-speak -- "Pro" == "same as consumer product but faster". Look at the MacBook Pro for another example.
I don't know when you think "these days" starts; but the MacBook Pro has been a model designator for over a decade.
Actually, "Pro", as in "MacBook Pro" actually means more like "More Features" (although "Faster" is usually one of the features).
It's a common marketing term in tech circles: E.g., Surface Pro.
ipad pro + keyboard = winner for elderly
Surface Pro-Killer.
Oh my god read my fucking point. I'm not saying Apple had a choice, I'm saying Apple created and delivered a fucked version of maps and users around the world ridiculed, complained, and sought alternatives. A hardware company is never just a hardware company, that is my one and only statement, and if Apple deliver their next iPhone without any OS installed and don't provide an OS, few if any people will buy it.
So stop clinging on to your "it's someone else's fault" comeback while completely missing the point of why I mentioned maps to begin with. The only one sounding silly here is you with your ranting defense of apple which makes zero sense in the context of the debate.
Perhaps I did not state my original point exactly correctly. What I really meant is that Apple's business model is to drive Hardware, not Software, Sales. For the most part, Apple views it's Software as a vehicle to drive its Hardware Sales. If they felt that they could contract out their software design and development and acheive the same level of quality (Maps.app notwithstanding) and integration, I would bet they would.
My point is, That is in stark contrast to Microsoft and Google, who PRIMARILY have Software Products.
But to follow your definition to its logical extreme, every company that produces peripherals like scanners and printers that happen to come with drivers and "helper" applications is automatically considered also a Software Vendor. Technically correct; but it misses the bigger picture.
...there upon the wall was a print of Albert Einstein standing by a chalk board with a tiny apple logo in the corner besides the words "Think Different." I took another sip and muddled over the message behind such a profound image as it connected with me how I was experiencing so many things that evening that opened my eyes
LOL. I guess ya gotta take your revelations where and how ya get 'em!!!
But that's an iconic poster, for sure, and EXACTLY exemplifies Apple's corporate attitude, it's ability to tap into the inner hopes and dreams of us ordinary people, without being condescending, high-handed, or in any way disrespectful.
Irrelevant in the face of user complaints. The point is no matter how much you think apple is a hardware company its users will grill it for bad software.
They can keep on making solid gold watches, unless their software keeps up they will lose against the competition.
The only reason you say that is "irrelevant" is that it nicely defeats your specious statement about Apple Maps. The truth is, Apple didn't have a choice with the Google Maps thing; Google knew they had Apple by the short hairs, and decided to start pulling... Apple IN NO WAY wanted to develop a mapping service, period.
Apple "Losing"? That's a good one! A LOT of Companies would like to be "losing" like Apple is!
So, hate on, hater boy; the more you rant, the sillier you sound.
Tempting but I've been a core PC gamer all my life. If one day Macs surpass PCs in gaming them perhaps.... but baby steps first, and the phone is a nice start.
Just wait. You've already put on the Halo... ;-)
Still getting all the voice, plain text as entered/displayed, images, gps as always no matter the 3rd party application level 'programming'. The setting out of CALEA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] was clear. A device for sale in the USA would have to be built-in surveillance ready at the carriers and manufacturers level. Also note the use of Trusted Third Parties on the networks and the need for real-time surveillance :)
And what does any of this have to do with Apple?
The Digital Telephony Act of 1994 and CALEA were both, IIRC, aimed not at the producers of "handsets", such as the iPhone and Android phone; but rather the manufacturers of "Telco" equipment, such as you would find in a "CO" (Central Office). None of the equipment in question is under the control of an End-User; but rather is the property of, and under the direct control of, your friendly neighborhood Telco or Wireless Carrier.
IOW, stuff that is way outside of Apple's product line.
But you can rest assured, APL's using it for their own ad platform
Apple barely makes a penny on iAd. I wouldn't be surprised if it disappears soon.
Summary: Joseph Gonzalez, co-founder of Dato, is miffed that his product is unable to exploit Apple's user base an it is hurting their revenue stream. He whines about it to Reuters and they write a sensationalist article. The end.
What? Can't he get enough Android user data? To hear the Slashtards talk, they own so much of the marketshare that the iOS data should be but a blip on the graph?
Hmmm, unless...
If they didn't need to monetize because they're "the most profitable company of the world", why were they caught as the ringleader of price-fixing e-books?
And, assuming that was actually true, how did that affect your (or anyone's) PRIVACY?
Because it's Apple, and the typical slashdot denizen tries to frame everything Apple does as bad, even when it's good.
Isn't dat da Trufe?!?
because the story is actually a PR stunt from Apple
Of course, of course.
Cattle mutilations are up again.
and care about their software and control of their software so much that they take perfectly good working software (like Google Maps), and decide to completely roll their own version.
You realize of course, that Apple got told by Google that they could NOT use Google Maps for Turn-by-Turn Navigation. THAT'S why they created their own Mapping service.
I ASSURE you, that was exactly NOT what they wanted to do. But Google was trying to play hardball with Android, and not letting Apple come to the Mapping party.
Check your facts before you spew, hater.
Why is this written as if it was a negative thing?
EXACTLY why I came here. To post the same question.
This is good propaganda for Apple. I don't believe it.
The security of the iDevice is stunningly bad, and has been for years. It has more holes than swiss cheese. If a 3-letter agency wants data from a device, they barely have to ask.
If I were a 3-letter agency, I would use a ploy like this to tempt terrorists or wanna-be's to feel special using something amazingly insecure.
Prove ANY of that. I'll wait.
My father and his friends all worked for Big Blue during their golden years selling/installing mainframes and I've had a PC in the house my entire life. Never once have I ever considering paying for over-hyped over-priced Apple "toys" until now. I simply cannot ignore the facts anymore that Apple makes the best phones on the market with sound security while Android and Windows erode away, and articles like this go a long way towards making me feel confident about my purchase. I'm very impressed with my 5s.
So, stick your other foot in the water and buy a MacBook Pro and run OS X on it. You'll wonder why you ever waited this long. Trust me.
If they private keys are stored on the device in a TPM or some sort of special hardware chip, It may not be possible for Apple to comply at all, even if they pushed a malicious software update if the chip provides no means to extract the private key it is a non-starter. You'd have to have physical access to the device and disassemble it.
From what I understand, that is precisely how it is designed.
Remember the Yahoo CEO? Give the government full access to the data of be accused of treason. Rest assured that Apple handed over all the data already decrypted given the remote access they have to all devices, and therefore all keystrokes. The court battle is just posturing.
Prove it, AC, or GTFO.
If these work similar to BlackBerry and BIS did, the key's are on the device itself, and the public key is registered with the iMessage service. When a message is sent to another party it is encrypted with their public key. The matching private key is not in apples possession, it is on a chip in the other parties phone. If this chip was designed correctly, there is no way to extract the private key without disassembling it. So legitimately, Apple may not be able to service this request.
That is EXACTLY how it works.
No way would the FBI want to do this, since it would set the precedent that surrendering the encryption key to that data would be self incrimination.
They have a vested interest in the encrypted data being treated as legally the same as the unencrypted data, since they don't want legal precedent for a fifth amendment defence on encryption keys being ruled on by a court. There's no solid case law on that one way or the other right now.
Great! I believe you are right on in your analysis.
Then Apple can just hand over the encrypted messages and say "We responded fully". Cool.
Pretty well defines what is good.
Once the industrialized countries outlaw encryption, I don't know how the banking system can survive.
But, of course, the US govt. will continue using encryption for their docs.
The Gummint doesn't have to ask for Android messages, because they have already embedded keyloggers into thousands of Android Apps.
Hey, if slashtards can engage in wild speculation about Apple colluding with the Gummint, why would they not believe it about Android Apps?
In the end, government will get its way. Sadly. This is the world we live in. It's going to end up "for the children".
Stop being a defeatist. Apple has smarter lawyers than the Gummint, and just wait until the Amicus Briefs start flying. Since this has already been elevated into the public attention, expect some "strange bedfellows" to come to Apple's defense.
Long story short, Apple COULD provide real-time access to encrypted messages, but it would take a little work to sneak that in, and eventually someone would find it.
Or maybe, just maybe, Apple really doesn't like what the Gummint is doing, and is doing everything in its power to passively-resist.
Did you ever ONCE stop to consider that possibility?
Just send the encrypted messages. That way you're complying with the order.
Apple knows good and well that the DoJ could easily fool some ignorant/fascist Judge to conclude that Apple was being "unresponsive" to the Request, or even worse, was deliberately "Obstructing Justice".
Isn't this wonderful? From the Fourth Amendment, we now have a situation where Privacy == Obstruction.
How in the FUCK did THAT happen?!?