And, in case anyone is curious, I can confirm the part about the vacillation. As for the reasons why, I'm thinking that the excluded middle is just something that we do. The adage about the squeaky wheel getting the grease also ties in. To make an even broader, and more generalized statement, it is the zealots and extremists that get the most attention.
The pendulum swings anew...
Anyhow; Mens et Manus! There's a chance we know each other.
On very specific hardware, ME was excellent. I got one of the few computers that was "ME Ready." It was fantastic! It was stable. I used to get months of uptime with it - while it housed not only an OpenNap server but also housed an OpenNap hub. It was not unusual to see all five servers pushing over 100,000 connections between them and ME handled the hub part and ran my own server as well. It sat doing that for ages.
Then, Vista was actually really good once SP1 came out. Prior to SP1 it kind of sucked. As I recall, it didn't even take long to get to SP1. I seem to recall it was okay prior to that, after a few updates, but it was pretty rough at first. I seem to recall that there were some speed issues, especially where disk input/output was concerned, and that was fixed up in fairly short order. I think people just didn't like things like user access control and a few other security features that were sorely needed. I stuck with it for quite a while - even when I had 7 available.
7 was excellent. I wasn't fond of the user interface. I really didn't like the menu and any OS functionality seemed awkward. So, I spent more of my time just being content with Vista. 8 wasn't too bad, once tweaked. 8.1 was similar in those regards. I didn't prefer any of those so I stuck with Vista or, sometimes, 7.
During that time, and since the mid-1990s, I'd had Linux installed on at least one partition. I just wasn't booting into it often enough to even call myself a Linux user. I'd used Unix back in the day and jumped on Linux pretty early but never really stayed with it much. I just kept using Windows as I'd switched to Windows back in 95 or so. (I'd not actually used any of the older stuff at that time - I have since.)
However, I've now given up Windows computers entirely. Even though I'd "dual booted," I wasn't really dual booting. I was just booting into Windows and sticking with it - the vast majority of the time. I'd boot to Linux to update, maybe test something, and call it good.
Really, I'd not much of a problem with Windows since the 98se era. I got along fine with ME, XP, Vista, 7, and 8. And though I didn't prefer the latter versions, I was able to use 'em just fine. I think a lot of the problems that people have actually stem from actions they themselves took.
Which leads me to this...
I noticed the description of this bug included it happening sporadically. I wonder how many of the people affected had done things like using all those varied scripts that are running around and purporting to shut off telemetry or other settings? I wonder how many of them have gone ahead and broken stuff on their own and that this update just compounded the issue, culminating with boot failure? Microsoft's kind of in a damned if you do and damned if you don't position and that's actually their own fault. They could go ahead and reset everyone's configuration prior to updating (and that might just resolve this sort of thing). If they do that, people get really mad. They don't know what changes people have made to their PCs, they turned off telemetry and blocked in their router.
Hard telling, not knowing. It's still a bit curious. I somehow don't imagine that I'll be impacted by this update at all. I didn't stop using Windows because of any Windows hate. I stopped because I wasn't learning anything new and dual-booting was obviously not enough motivation to learn more. So, it's just Linux now.
Might I suggest you do some reading and learn what the differences are? Or, if you want, you can skip the reading part and just install Lubuntu. It'll run fast enough.
Alternatively, do a little more reading and you'll learn that you can pick any one of a number of different desktop environments. They're tit-easy to install. You don't even need to use the terminal to install them but it's a bit easier through the terminal. I type faster than I look around for settings. Either way, you can just use the Lubuntu Software Center and install it with a point and click. You can search that. You can use Synaptic instead. Or, just Google, and you'll be on your way with the terminal in no time.
I'm not sure why you'd think Ubuntu screwed the pooch. They're a rather popular distro. If by great success you mean screwed the pooch then I concur entirely. Unity has a whole bunch of happy users. I am not one of them. I hate it too. I just use LXDE and call it good.
Point conceded. If I may, I amend my statement to there are no socially acceptable reasons.
I was initially going to type "good reasons" but then I realized that's entirely too subjective. But, yeah... I mean, some folks might find it emotionally satisfying to plink at them with.22LR rounds but I'm pretty sure that's not really considered socially acceptable. That and we're the US of A and that means we're supposed to hold the moral high ground. Well, it does... It doesn't mean we actually do it. We are supposed to do so.
We're supposed to be the greatest nation on the planet. I'm pretty sure that means we're supposed to avoid abusing illegal immigrants. I'm also sure that we're not supposed to be spying on our own citizens, stripping away liberties as fast as the populace can be convinced to give them up, torturing people, and that sort of thing.
Actually? Come to think of it, we've already gone this far down the rabbit hole. We might just as well put barbed wire and land mines along the border. Then, when we catch 'em, we can make 'em run back through it. We can air it on prime time television and turn it into a game show. Hell, we can force them to run back across at gun point and sell tickets to people who want to wield the guns. Varied ticket prices mean that they get bigger and better weapons.
Where's Trump at? He'd probably sponsor that television show. He might even host it. They could have chutes that they run out of before they have to dart across the border. Anyone who doesn't cross quickly enough gets shot at with a variety of weapons. Each contestant gets their own "zone." The highest scoring contestant gets to come back the following night and participate for free. Non-winning contestants are allowed to take home a trophy so long as they go retrieve it themselves. It could happen.
Seriously, we're supposed to be the example of what people should aspire to become in their own nations. Abusing people who do illegal things (instead of handing down justice) isn't something that normal people aspire to. I don't have any particular love (or even sympathy) for the illegal immigrants. What I do have is a love for my country and I'd like it to be better than it is.
Of course they don't. And I wouldn't have it any other way. Nor would you! Don't lie. You'd be sad and bored if it they did a better job. You'd have to find something new to bitch about. If we can't bitch about "editing" we'd have to find something new to do. We might even have to read the articles and make intelligent, insightful, or informative comments. That would be like cats and dogs living together!
No sir! I would not stand for it.
I will not stand it, if they edit. It'd just be wrong, don't you get it? Do not be one, don't be a hero! I could not stand it Gravis Zero! I like it now, I give a damn! With "Slashdot Green" and comment spam!
Even if I had no money, I would not get out of bed to be paid the least amount possible, by law. If someone's paying you minimum wage, they're basically saying that they'd love to pay you less but the law prevents them from doing so. It's tantamount to telling you that you're worth the lowest amount legally possible.
I'd find a nice, older, heavy-set widow and stud myself out before I got out of bed to be insulted like that. I suppose I'd do it if I were truly destitute but, at that point, I might just as well wait until the middle of the night and smash the window in at a liquor store. Then I'll just sit there and get as drunk as I can until the cops come or morning arrives and they find me giggling in a pool of my own urine and vomit. I might as well go prison at that point, seriously.
I guess, more importantly, I'd never put myself into a position where I needed to work for such a low wage. So long as minimum wage is a joke, I'd not even consider working for it (unless under duress). I really would whore myself out to old ladies.
Oh, ha! Come to think of it? Your name reminds me of a movie with a guy named "Ratzo" in it. He's hanging out with a guy from Texas who's gone to New York to be a gigolo. The Texan's not very good at his job and they go to Florida and Ratzo dies. Oh yeah, spoiler alert. It's a kind of funny movie and I've not seen it in years. I've no idea what the name of it is.
But, at this point, minimum wage is a joke. To be paid minimum wage would be like a slap across the face. Sure, I'd like to live in a world where we didn't have to have a minimum wage. I'd love that. However, I don't see that as a realistic option at this time. What the exact price of minimum wage should be is subject to debate but the reality is that it's much too low. Having had this discussion with a few other people lately, the $12.50/hour figure it thrown around a lot. I'd say that's not too bad - it might even be higher than is required back home. It should be higher than what it is and more areas should take advantage of the fact that it's the Federal Minimum Wage and then adjust it (up) according to their cost of living. Right now, most areas just stick with the Federal regulations.
Then you simply don't employ them and don't support those who do. At the very least, illegal immigrant or not, you don't abuse them. We can be humane about shipping them back across the boarder. There's no reason to be hostile and there are zero reasons to be abusive.
I've hired people from Labor Ready, including just recently after a few Slashdotters helped me make a great big mess on the lawn and beach. To be fair, they weren't the only ones there for the NYE festivities. But, I'd used them before.
I can't say how valid this is but they're VERY clear on the documentation that you, the contractor, sign. They employees are all supposed to be documented and paying their taxes. They get paid daily (or weekly) and the "appropriate" sums are withdrawn before they even see the money. They fill out a W-2, show ID, and all that. At the end of the day (or week) they can get a check or they can get a code. They put their code and some other number(s), I don't know the exact details, into a machine that looks like an ATM but is not an ATM and it spits out their money.
I have no idea how stringent those checks on ID are, how well they follow the IRS' regulations, or anything like that but they're very, very clear about it. I also have no idea how other companies do it as I have no experience with anyone but Labor Ready. I always cheat and give them extra money on top of what they get paid from the company so I'm probably not helping matters much. I call 'em tips and that's exactly what they are. I kind of doubt they're paying taxes on their tips but, at the same time, they may not actually (and probably are not actually) be earning enough by tips to be required to report it.
Also, the policy I signed says that I'm not supposed to give them tips. However, Labor Ready takes something like 1/3 of their pay. I only use Labor Ready because there's some accountability, insurance, and the employees are supposed to be documented. I've used them a number of times over the years and in a few different locations. I've only once had to send someone back to the office. The rest have all been good people who worked well.
I make sure to ask the average wages and pay more than that and the guys who run the place don't send the drunks and lazy people. Meh, it works out well. I sent the ones from the NYE cleanup home with a whole bunch of left-over booze and the three kegs so that they were able to get the deposits on those too. I can't say that I have any complaints and the workers seem pretty happy to get paid well and not have to work for a hard-ass that's breathing down their necks. I've already set it up to pay them for x-amount of hours. If they get it done sooner than that, they get same amount of pay so long as they don't go back to the office too soon.
Yet you're paraphrasing. Do you have a link to the transcript of that comment? I should think you'd have actually quoted what he said. I mean, it's Trump. There's a gazillion things wrong with him. There are countless reasons that people have to not want him to be the president. Some of them are even good reasons. It should be easy to find that quote - and, again, Google's not finding anything using those terms.
Much thanks! I knew someone would chime in. Well, I hoped they would. I'm probably going to end up just doing what I have been doing. I'm not really seeing any compelling reason to change my behavior. So long as it doesn't break anything then I probably won't even care if the distros start using it by default.
An example is that, right now, I've been on the road since September of 2015. Well, not on the road so much but no longer home. I left on wanderlust and have managed to acquire a girlfriend, quite by accident, so I'm not actually wandering so much as existing in Florida until we go back home to Maine in the spring. As an aside, it should be interesting because she's only seen pictures and a live video feed. She's never been to my home but she's been to my house down here in Florida.
While I've been on the road, much of my connection (like right this minute) is via VNC. I'm using VNC to connect to a system at home and I'm using the network from there. I don't get any lag or anything, it's not even a fast connection. It has held up just fine - better than expected. I've not had any major issues with connectivity or lag - and that includes much of a Maine winter, though the winter has been mild.
I think this is the longest that I've made use of it, or at least the most that I've made use of it in one trip. I had multiple fail-overs provisioned, a variety of VMs all ready to spin up, and things like that. I didn't even have time to give it nearly as much testing as I'd like. I have it configured to only allow access in with some very specific settings - namely, this one is locked to an IP address that is a VPN address and doesn't change. It can connect with a couple of other methods but I've not had to use them - just to test them once in a while and make sure they're still running.
I can even daisy-chain them together. I've got full access to my home network. I can access my video feed because that's locked down - it only allows connections from within the LAN. Things are all hard-set IP addresses instead of relying on DHCP. Yes, I'm a slacker and haven't bothered with IPv6 at home. But, best of all, it's working.
I'm actually surprised that it has worked this well. It probably helps that I've been using VNC for years - I even use it when I'm home. There's a VNC viewer for most any OS out there and servers for more things than I can shake a stick at. I'm pretty fond of it. I was expecting a bit more trouble but it has been rock solid. I've even managed to remotely upgrade (not update - upgrade) the OSes at home via connecting with VNC. I did the 15.04 to 15.10 and, if I'm still here, I'll go to 16.04 next. (Everything is on Ubuntu at home except for one that's running CentOS and is sitting idle as a backup.)
So, I guess? I'm still not seeing where this will make my life any different. Err... It's not going to mess with my TTY or anything? I hope not. I've gotten kind of fond of that over the years but I've not really paid enough attention to what Wayland is going to mess with. I've been taking a wait and see approach. So, yeah, I'm not going to worry about it and I'll hope that it doesn't break anything. I'm pretty easy to get along with. Thanks again and if anyone else thinks of anything to add, feel free.
Don't take it personal but it's very US-centric. Unless specifically stated otherwise, it's US-related. Most of the time. We don't actually have editors. We just have people who hold that title and get paid for it. I presume they're busy but I'm not actually sure what it is that they do.
However, this isn't going to be something you see change in the near future. It's the way it is, the way it will be, and the way it has always been. Don't let anyone fool you, Slashdot was never "good." If you don't believe me, read some of the old comments or summaries and compare them with today. No, Slashdot was never good. But, it is what it is.
Tromping in and thinking that you're going to effect meaningful change isn't going to do you any good. You'll just find it frustrating. You can't change it and it won't change for you. The momentum is strong, the drive of entropy is stronger. It's all and nothing, at the same time. Just when you think you've got it figured out, you'll find out you were wrong.
Pull up a chair and register an account, if you want. We've new Overlords. As someone said, they bought the site by mistake. I prefer to think they were drunk. So far, so good. They're pretty good people, albeit not the speediest. That's okay, we might not want the speediest. We're a bit risk/change averse. You should see what happens if they move a button. Heh...
As I said, it is what it is. You either like it or you don't. It's actually possible to hold both views at the same time. It's probably best to hold both views at the same time. Don't worry, there's nothing you can do right. Then again, there's not much you can do wrong. No matter what your motives, someone will find fault, almost invariably. As I said to the new owners, "You'll adjust."
I owe a lot to Digital. I was just starting out, but still in the Cambridge area, and I actually got a borrowed computer and then a credit line, direct with them. While I did have my own computer at the time, it was nothing like what I needed. We stuck with DEC for quite a while, even after switching to being mostly a Sun shop. They were immensely helpful but sort of stagnated which is why we ended up going to Sun. We still used workstations from DEC for a while before moving to the SPARCstation models.
I'd worked with DEC with my research project. They literally *loaned* me the computer post-graduation and I didn't pay for it until I got the initial funds for the first contract. The awesome thing was, they didn't even charge me full price for it - it was used, after all. So, they got a bunch of money from us. For what I was doing, it was cost effective to upgrade often.
I want to say that we had some networking gear from them at one point but I may be misremembering? Did DEC make networking gear? I want to say that, for a while, we even had modems from DEC? Hmm... This was early 1990s through to mid-late 1990s. I think our relationship began in 1988? I'd probably not be far off to say that we had some of their Alpha boxes until 2000 or so.
Then they ended up with financial issues and were sold/acquired, maybe? Hmm... I want to say Compaq bought 'em but my memory's fuzzy and you probably recall better than I do. I'm not sure if they went through another company before that or not too long after that. Ah well... They were a great company and they made great equipment though I'm surely a little biased. I want to say that I actually still have one of their workstations somewhere, tucked away in storage and held onto for posterity, but I really can't be certain and I'm not exactly in a position to check.
I don't know if they're correct but I've had people tell me that I'm pretty bright. I don't have much specific domain knowledge but I've read a whole lot of links (including the official documentation, as in the tech docs) and I'm not actually sure that it'd be all that easy to get into an iPhone with the secure enclave, at least not without Apple's help.
If you add to this that people can use really long passwords and then just use a fingerprint (on the newer models) then I'm not really sure they can get in at all. There's no brute forcing that 52 (I think was the maximum) character password. It's just not gonna happen before the heat death of the universe. That's something like 3.56648779139e+123 possible combinations, you've got ten tries.
I have thought of one way. Maybe... At some point, they're sending some sort of signal that's saying to delete a key. Get some practice phones, find that signal, and figure out how to interrupt it. Then, maybe, the OS will let you have more than ten tries. I have to wonder if there's another method that might be done on the bus between points. It sure as hell isn't going to be easy.
On top of that, you're still (as near as I can tell) very much correct. When the AC said "only Apple" they're making a huge assumption that the ability to sign things in the name of Apple has not found its way into the hands of people who are, quite specifically, not Apple. It seems to me that making such an assumption is borderline retarded.
Hmm... I'm gonna have to detour on that Moore's Law bit.
Moore's Law is still happening, except we're not noticing. The law's only about the number of transistors. It doesn't actually have anything to do with speed. We, the consumers, aren't paying for the 24 core CPUs and, I guess, AMD is supposed to be dropping one at 32 cores in the not-to-distant future. I suspect that Moore's Law is still, at least partially, true in that we've got the tech - we're just not utilizing it. I guess Moore's Law is still largely in effect. I haven't crunched the numbers and I suspect that a part of the reason for the slowdown is the expense. I'm guessing that it can still continue, for a while longer at least, but that we're not going to pay that much for a CPU and the vast majority of us couldn't even utilize it in our home computers.
Then, to make it worse, nothing is really optimized to take advantage of all the cores and threads. When was the last time you compiled stuff for yourself and remembered to throw the number of cores switch on to match your hardware? How much code actually was written to support it? How much code was written that will benefit from it?
There have been speed increases but they're pretty slight. I seem to recall that we could bust out at nearly 3 GHz back in 2008. Today, we're not much over 3 unless we overclock. Some of the I7 chips are up at 4.2 and I guess (I've not tried) they can be OCed to about 5 GHz. Which leads me to another thing. I've not actually overclocked a thing in years. I haven't bothered, I don't need to. It's "fast enough."
Not long ago, I mentioned an iPhone 4c. For what it is, it's not bad. It's not bad at all. (I've recently outfitted the two little hoodlums - long story - with a couple of Windows phones, because I can.*) It's old, as far as phones go. Yet, it's still pretty snappy. Of course, I didn't load a bunch of apps on it but I put a few on there and played around with it. If I didn't already have dozens of devices that fill every possible niche that fills, well... I'd probably use it. I still have no idea how well it works as a phone but I'll probably give the next iPad a shot. If I don't like it then I'm sure someone else will give it a happy home. It depends on how well I get Linux to run on one of the Surface Pro 4 tablets.
There are some interesting new tech bits but we're so used to seeing it that we don't even notice. Imagine, if you will, if you could get an external video card that enabled this and had enough throughput, bidirectional, that made running this hardware actually viable on a Mac? Well, in theory at least, you can. No problem. You can get an external video card with enough gumption to drive this device. Hell, you can get it at a price that's lower than a new car - try that just a dozen years ago. Yeah, you can do that. It doesn't seem as impressive as it is but that's actually kind of impressive.
* Long story, I'll type out a few of the details, if you're actually curious. I've some sort of (potentially) pressing matters so I'm operating as if I'm time constrained. Basically, I'm hoping to do a bit of travel on Monday and I've set things in motion to do so.
We need to get some designs made up for Sanders/Trump and Trump/Sanders bumper stickers. Way back when, I got a bumper sticker made up that said, "Archie Bunker for President!" I got given the finger, a lot. It was hilarious.
Anyhow, the president has plenty of power, just not as much as most people think. We'll likely end up with a stalled Congress and maybe, just maybe, they'll learn to compromise and actually consider working for the people. Well, it *could* happen.
I don't really like being in the position of defending Trump but when has he said he'd attack foreign people and countries? Specifically?
I checked Google and the only thing I'm seeing is where he said he'd have opened fire on the Paris terrorists. I guess, with some mental gymnastics, one could construe that into saying that he'd attack foreign people and countries? However, I'm pretty sure that even some of the French said that. Actually, I think they did.
There's some merit in that idea. I did propose a solution which would result in my voting for Trump. Put him as VP alongside Sanders - it's just crazy enough to work. It's not like Congress is going to let either one of them do anything meaningful. We might as well give us the best entertainment money can buy, or something like that.
I'm not big on conspiracy theories or things of that nature. I'm really not... However! (You knew that was coming, didn't you?) I know this is probably *not* the case but I have wondered if Trump's actually a spoiler that has gone horribly wrong - or fantastically correct. He's completely disrupted the GOP. I don't watch television or see any ads online but I understand he hasn't even been paying for ads. (That's particularly clever and we were sort of discussing that in a journal post last night/this morning.)
What if Trump's not meant to win but is just meant to take enough votes from the Republicans to make the ride a bit easier for the Democrats? He is good friends with Hillary, after all. I'm pretty sure that's a complete bastardization of the political process but I'd not put it past them. I'm also guessing that we'd not hear about it until well after the deed is done and can no longer be undone.
To be clear, I'm absolutely NOT suggesting that is the case. (Sadly, this is Slashdot and I'm compelled to clarify that.) It's not even an accusation. It's just more of a, "What if?" It's probably not illegal. I'm thinking that it might be adequate for impeachment but this is a Clinton we're talking about. They could even be banking on it not becoming obvious until well after the fact. It really wouldn't even require a lot of other people to be involved and they could easily do it with leaving little to no information behind.
Hell, one or both of them could be in a position where they have either plausible deniability or no actual knowledge to begin with. Heh, almost Manchurian in nature. At the very least, it could be fairly easy to get someone in Trump's position motivated to run and convinced he thought it all up himself. It might actually make an interesting novel or movie.
At any rate, I'd absolutely have no choice but to vote for a Sanders/Trump ticket. I might even vote a Trump/Sanders ticket. Why? It's not that I don't like you but that it would be the most amusing four years in my life, collectively speaking. I bet not a day goes by that I'm not given cause to laugh like hell.
In the words of the immortal Chink: Ha ha, ho ho, he he! (Should not be an obscure reference on Slashdot.)
I've been a pretty avid fan and user of VNC, in one form or another, for a very long time. Is there any reason for me to care about this? Almost nothing I try wants to forward the GUI over SSH anyhow. What benefit does Wayland, eventually, offer? Is there any compelling reason to change?
I sometimes rally race. Nothing fancy, just an amateur, and my car (Saab 900S Turbo) has a blown engine - so, definitely nothing fancy. Anyhow, DNF means "Did Not Finish" to me.
I'm thinking with Hurd as the topic, DNF just might be applicable on a number of levels.*
(*) Sorry RMS, but it's true. Please don't appear in the middle of the night with a Samurai sword and kill me while I sleep.
While that might be true, I'm pretty sure I don't tie my identity to my OS, programming language, web language, sports team, religion, or any of those things. So, I'll chuck all the stones I want. I use the tool that suits me best, don't need affirmation, and am willing to change if something better comes along. Hell, in the case of operating systems - I've got a whole variety of them and use them all regularly. I'd even speculate that I've purchased, on my own and with my own funds - not at the behest of a company, more Apple devices than anyone in this thread.
So yes, yes I will chuck stones. If you're so mentally dependent on something you've not had any hand in enough to the point where you're ceasing to be rational there's serious mental defects going on and seeking professional help might be a logical step. When one has their identity tied into an act not of their own to the point where they're no longer capable of rational thought, there's a problem. Be it Windows, Linux, Java, Patriots, Ford, Jesus, or Maker's Mark - it's either stupid or unhealthy or both.
Do something, anything, more meaningful and develop and identity and some pride in yourself. There's nothing wrong with having some healthy pride in oneself. Obviously, it's unhealthy to go to extremes and unwarranted self-importance. Learn to play an instrument, raise a healthy and happy dog, climb a mountain, paint a picture, write some software, feed the hungry, whatever it takes - do it. When you cease being rational, it's something you should SERIOUSLY consider looking into.
By most definitions, I'm not even a "PC user." It's not like I'm defending them. I could care less what OS they're using. But this, this is irrational:
Sure it looks a little messier, but who cares? Not Mac users, it seems to be the PC guys that are fussy about looks over performance.
I'm not really sure if I can help you if you can't understand that. Given your comment about stone throwing, I'm curious if you even bothered to read it. It's not like I've not made my views on things abundantly clear - and consistently so, over a period of many, many years. Hell, it's not like I even think I'm the epitome of perfection or the pinnacle of intellect.
I know this is hard to understand but, as I posted above, Mozilla is not getting rid of Thunderbird. Read the actual press-release yourself. Read what they're saying. Read what they're doing. They're moving it to another part of the organization so that they can more easily keep it separate from Firefox. They kind of have to because the framework is about to change and the old-style add-ons are not going to work with the new versions of Firefox but they want to keep those add-on styles for Thunderbird.
I already said this so I'll post this as an AC. I'm time-limited today. I encourage you to actually see what's going on instead of relying on others to interpret things for you. Read more than the comments at this site - read the actual releases, see the actual practices, read the actual article. Well, fuck that last one... Ain't no one got time for article reading when we've got lit torches and an agenda.
Seriously, there are no plans to kill Thunderbird - at least no announced plans. They're still actively developing it. It's just to reduce the "technical deficit" caused by keeping Firefox and Thunderbird together. Firefox is getting some sort of Chrome extension stuff. Thunderbird is not. The parts of Thunderbird that rely on Firefox are going to have to be developed slightly differently because of this.
As I stated above, I'm really inclined to think that it was a willful misinterpretation that resulted in the belief that Mozilla is casting aside Thunderbird. They are not. In fact, Thunderbird is now up to something like 10,000,000 *daily* requests for a block file on their server - so, some rough metrics. They are not going to kill that. It is still very much active. It's basically the equivalent of a corporation's reorganization. It might fail, it might not. It might get halted in the future, it might not. However, the current goal is not, in fact, to kill the project.
Does anyone actually read at this site? How about this for a link, I just had it open from following someone else's link so it's still in my browser's history though I'd read it a couple of months ago: https://blog.mozilla.org/thund...
Slashdot Mirror
> When I was an MIT student many, many years ago
Eh? When was that?
And, in case anyone is curious, I can confirm the part about the vacillation. As for the reasons why, I'm thinking that the excluded middle is just something that we do. The adage about the squeaky wheel getting the grease also ties in. To make an even broader, and more generalized statement, it is the zealots and extremists that get the most attention.
The pendulum swings anew...
Anyhow; Mens et Manus! There's a chance we know each other.
On very specific hardware, ME was excellent. I got one of the few computers that was "ME Ready." It was fantastic! It was stable. I used to get months of uptime with it - while it housed not only an OpenNap server but also housed an OpenNap hub. It was not unusual to see all five servers pushing over 100,000 connections between them and ME handled the hub part and ran my own server as well. It sat doing that for ages.
Then, Vista was actually really good once SP1 came out. Prior to SP1 it kind of sucked. As I recall, it didn't even take long to get to SP1. I seem to recall it was okay prior to that, after a few updates, but it was pretty rough at first. I seem to recall that there were some speed issues, especially where disk input/output was concerned, and that was fixed up in fairly short order. I think people just didn't like things like user access control and a few other security features that were sorely needed. I stuck with it for quite a while - even when I had 7 available.
7 was excellent. I wasn't fond of the user interface. I really didn't like the menu and any OS functionality seemed awkward. So, I spent more of my time just being content with Vista. 8 wasn't too bad, once tweaked. 8.1 was similar in those regards. I didn't prefer any of those so I stuck with Vista or, sometimes, 7.
During that time, and since the mid-1990s, I'd had Linux installed on at least one partition. I just wasn't booting into it often enough to even call myself a Linux user. I'd used Unix back in the day and jumped on Linux pretty early but never really stayed with it much. I just kept using Windows as I'd switched to Windows back in 95 or so. (I'd not actually used any of the older stuff at that time - I have since.)
However, I've now given up Windows computers entirely. Even though I'd "dual booted," I wasn't really dual booting. I was just booting into Windows and sticking with it - the vast majority of the time. I'd boot to Linux to update, maybe test something, and call it good.
Really, I'd not much of a problem with Windows since the 98se era. I got along fine with ME, XP, Vista, 7, and 8. And though I didn't prefer the latter versions, I was able to use 'em just fine. I think a lot of the problems that people have actually stem from actions they themselves took.
Which leads me to this...
I noticed the description of this bug included it happening sporadically. I wonder how many of the people affected had done things like using all those varied scripts that are running around and purporting to shut off telemetry or other settings? I wonder how many of them have gone ahead and broken stuff on their own and that this update just compounded the issue, culminating with boot failure? Microsoft's kind of in a damned if you do and damned if you don't position and that's actually their own fault. They could go ahead and reset everyone's configuration prior to updating (and that might just resolve this sort of thing). If they do that, people get really mad. They don't know what changes people have made to their PCs, they turned off telemetry and blocked in their router.
Hard telling, not knowing. It's still a bit curious. I somehow don't imagine that I'll be impacted by this update at all. I didn't stop using Windows because of any Windows hate. I stopped because I wasn't learning anything new and dual-booting was obviously not enough motivation to learn more. So, it's just Linux now.
I agree. Those chairs won't throw themselves, you know.
Might I suggest you do some reading and learn what the differences are? Or, if you want, you can skip the reading part and just install Lubuntu. It'll run fast enough.
Alternatively, do a little more reading and you'll learn that you can pick any one of a number of different desktop environments. They're tit-easy to install. You don't even need to use the terminal to install them but it's a bit easier through the terminal. I type faster than I look around for settings. Either way, you can just use the Lubuntu Software Center and install it with a point and click. You can search that. You can use Synaptic instead. Or, just Google, and you'll be on your way with the terminal in no time.
I'm not sure why you'd think Ubuntu screwed the pooch. They're a rather popular distro. If by great success you mean screwed the pooch then I concur entirely. Unity has a whole bunch of happy users. I am not one of them. I hate it too. I just use LXDE and call it good.
Point conceded. If I may, I amend my statement to there are no socially acceptable reasons.
I was initially going to type "good reasons" but then I realized that's entirely too subjective. But, yeah... I mean, some folks might find it emotionally satisfying to plink at them with .22LR rounds but I'm pretty sure that's not really considered socially acceptable. That and we're the US of A and that means we're supposed to hold the moral high ground. Well, it does... It doesn't mean we actually do it. We are supposed to do so.
We're supposed to be the greatest nation on the planet. I'm pretty sure that means we're supposed to avoid abusing illegal immigrants. I'm also sure that we're not supposed to be spying on our own citizens, stripping away liberties as fast as the populace can be convinced to give them up, torturing people, and that sort of thing.
Actually? Come to think of it, we've already gone this far down the rabbit hole. We might just as well put barbed wire and land mines along the border. Then, when we catch 'em, we can make 'em run back through it. We can air it on prime time television and turn it into a game show. Hell, we can force them to run back across at gun point and sell tickets to people who want to wield the guns. Varied ticket prices mean that they get bigger and better weapons.
Where's Trump at? He'd probably sponsor that television show. He might even host it. They could have chutes that they run out of before they have to dart across the border. Anyone who doesn't cross quickly enough gets shot at with a variety of weapons. Each contestant gets their own "zone." The highest scoring contestant gets to come back the following night and participate for free. Non-winning contestants are allowed to take home a trophy so long as they go retrieve it themselves. It could happen.
Seriously, we're supposed to be the example of what people should aspire to become in their own nations. Abusing people who do illegal things (instead of handing down justice) isn't something that normal people aspire to. I don't have any particular love (or even sympathy) for the illegal immigrants. What I do have is a love for my country and I'd like it to be better than it is.
> have you no decency slashdot editors?
Of course they don't. And I wouldn't have it any other way. Nor would you! Don't lie. You'd be sad and bored if it they did a better job. You'd have to find something new to bitch about. If we can't bitch about "editing" we'd have to find something new to do. We might even have to read the articles and make intelligent, insightful, or informative comments. That would be like cats and dogs living together!
No sir! I would not stand for it.
I will not stand it, if they edit.
It'd just be wrong, don't you get it?
Do not be one, don't be a hero!
I could not stand it Gravis Zero!
I like it now, I give a damn!
With "Slashdot Green" and comment spam!
Err... Yes, yes I am a wee bit stoned.
Even if I had no money, I would not get out of bed to be paid the least amount possible, by law. If someone's paying you minimum wage, they're basically saying that they'd love to pay you less but the law prevents them from doing so. It's tantamount to telling you that you're worth the lowest amount legally possible.
I'd find a nice, older, heavy-set widow and stud myself out before I got out of bed to be insulted like that. I suppose I'd do it if I were truly destitute but, at that point, I might just as well wait until the middle of the night and smash the window in at a liquor store. Then I'll just sit there and get as drunk as I can until the cops come or morning arrives and they find me giggling in a pool of my own urine and vomit. I might as well go prison at that point, seriously.
I guess, more importantly, I'd never put myself into a position where I needed to work for such a low wage. So long as minimum wage is a joke, I'd not even consider working for it (unless under duress). I really would whore myself out to old ladies.
Oh, ha! Come to think of it? Your name reminds me of a movie with a guy named "Ratzo" in it. He's hanging out with a guy from Texas who's gone to New York to be a gigolo. The Texan's not very good at his job and they go to Florida and Ratzo dies. Oh yeah, spoiler alert. It's a kind of funny movie and I've not seen it in years. I've no idea what the name of it is.
But, at this point, minimum wage is a joke. To be paid minimum wage would be like a slap across the face. Sure, I'd like to live in a world where we didn't have to have a minimum wage. I'd love that. However, I don't see that as a realistic option at this time. What the exact price of minimum wage should be is subject to debate but the reality is that it's much too low. Having had this discussion with a few other people lately, the $12.50/hour figure it thrown around a lot. I'd say that's not too bad - it might even be higher than is required back home. It should be higher than what it is and more areas should take advantage of the fact that it's the Federal Minimum Wage and then adjust it (up) according to their cost of living. Right now, most areas just stick with the Federal regulations.
Then you simply don't employ them and don't support those who do. At the very least, illegal immigrant or not, you don't abuse them. We can be humane about shipping them back across the boarder. There's no reason to be hostile and there are zero reasons to be abusive.
I've hired people from Labor Ready, including just recently after a few Slashdotters helped me make a great big mess on the lawn and beach. To be fair, they weren't the only ones there for the NYE festivities. But, I'd used them before.
I can't say how valid this is but they're VERY clear on the documentation that you, the contractor, sign. They employees are all supposed to be documented and paying their taxes. They get paid daily (or weekly) and the "appropriate" sums are withdrawn before they even see the money. They fill out a W-2, show ID, and all that. At the end of the day (or week) they can get a check or they can get a code. They put their code and some other number(s), I don't know the exact details, into a machine that looks like an ATM but is not an ATM and it spits out their money.
I have no idea how stringent those checks on ID are, how well they follow the IRS' regulations, or anything like that but they're very, very clear about it. I also have no idea how other companies do it as I have no experience with anyone but Labor Ready. I always cheat and give them extra money on top of what they get paid from the company so I'm probably not helping matters much. I call 'em tips and that's exactly what they are. I kind of doubt they're paying taxes on their tips but, at the same time, they may not actually (and probably are not actually) be earning enough by tips to be required to report it.
Also, the policy I signed says that I'm not supposed to give them tips. However, Labor Ready takes something like 1/3 of their pay. I only use Labor Ready because there's some accountability, insurance, and the employees are supposed to be documented. I've used them a number of times over the years and in a few different locations. I've only once had to send someone back to the office. The rest have all been good people who worked well.
I make sure to ask the average wages and pay more than that and the guys who run the place don't send the drunks and lazy people. Meh, it works out well. I sent the ones from the NYE cleanup home with a whole bunch of left-over booze and the three kegs so that they were able to get the deposits on those too. I can't say that I have any complaints and the workers seem pretty happy to get paid well and not have to work for a hard-ass that's breathing down their necks. I've already set it up to pay them for x-amount of hours. If they get it done sooner than that, they get same amount of pay so long as they don't go back to the office too soon.
Yet you're paraphrasing. Do you have a link to the transcript of that comment? I should think you'd have actually quoted what he said. I mean, it's Trump. There's a gazillion things wrong with him. There are countless reasons that people have to not want him to be the president. Some of them are even good reasons. It should be easy to find that quote - and, again, Google's not finding anything using those terms.
Much thanks! I knew someone would chime in. Well, I hoped they would. I'm probably going to end up just doing what I have been doing. I'm not really seeing any compelling reason to change my behavior. So long as it doesn't break anything then I probably won't even care if the distros start using it by default.
An example is that, right now, I've been on the road since September of 2015. Well, not on the road so much but no longer home. I left on wanderlust and have managed to acquire a girlfriend, quite by accident, so I'm not actually wandering so much as existing in Florida until we go back home to Maine in the spring. As an aside, it should be interesting because she's only seen pictures and a live video feed. She's never been to my home but she's been to my house down here in Florida.
While I've been on the road, much of my connection (like right this minute) is via VNC. I'm using VNC to connect to a system at home and I'm using the network from there. I don't get any lag or anything, it's not even a fast connection. It has held up just fine - better than expected. I've not had any major issues with connectivity or lag - and that includes much of a Maine winter, though the winter has been mild.
I think this is the longest that I've made use of it, or at least the most that I've made use of it in one trip. I had multiple fail-overs provisioned, a variety of VMs all ready to spin up, and things like that. I didn't even have time to give it nearly as much testing as I'd like. I have it configured to only allow access in with some very specific settings - namely, this one is locked to an IP address that is a VPN address and doesn't change. It can connect with a couple of other methods but I've not had to use them - just to test them once in a while and make sure they're still running.
I can even daisy-chain them together. I've got full access to my home network. I can access my video feed because that's locked down - it only allows connections from within the LAN. Things are all hard-set IP addresses instead of relying on DHCP. Yes, I'm a slacker and haven't bothered with IPv6 at home. But, best of all, it's working.
I'm actually surprised that it has worked this well. It probably helps that I've been using VNC for years - I even use it when I'm home. There's a VNC viewer for most any OS out there and servers for more things than I can shake a stick at. I'm pretty fond of it. I was expecting a bit more trouble but it has been rock solid. I've even managed to remotely upgrade (not update - upgrade) the OSes at home via connecting with VNC. I did the 15.04 to 15.10 and, if I'm still here, I'll go to 16.04 next. (Everything is on Ubuntu at home except for one that's running CentOS and is sitting idle as a backup.)
So, I guess? I'm still not seeing where this will make my life any different. Err... It's not going to mess with my TTY or anything? I hope not. I've gotten kind of fond of that over the years but I've not really paid enough attention to what Wayland is going to mess with. I've been taking a wait and see approach. So, yeah, I'm not going to worry about it and I'll hope that it doesn't break anything. I'm pretty easy to get along with. Thanks again and if anyone else thinks of anything to add, feel free.
Don't take it personal but it's very US-centric. Unless specifically stated otherwise, it's US-related. Most of the time. We don't actually have editors. We just have people who hold that title and get paid for it. I presume they're busy but I'm not actually sure what it is that they do.
However, this isn't going to be something you see change in the near future. It's the way it is, the way it will be, and the way it has always been. Don't let anyone fool you, Slashdot was never "good." If you don't believe me, read some of the old comments or summaries and compare them with today. No, Slashdot was never good. But, it is what it is.
Tromping in and thinking that you're going to effect meaningful change isn't going to do you any good. You'll just find it frustrating. You can't change it and it won't change for you. The momentum is strong, the drive of entropy is stronger. It's all and nothing, at the same time. Just when you think you've got it figured out, you'll find out you were wrong.
Pull up a chair and register an account, if you want. We've new Overlords. As someone said, they bought the site by mistake. I prefer to think they were drunk. So far, so good. They're pretty good people, albeit not the speediest. That's okay, we might not want the speediest. We're a bit risk/change averse. You should see what happens if they move a button. Heh...
As I said, it is what it is. You either like it or you don't. It's actually possible to hold both views at the same time. It's probably best to hold both views at the same time. Don't worry, there's nothing you can do right. Then again, there's not much you can do wrong. No matter what your motives, someone will find fault, almost invariably. As I said to the new owners, "You'll adjust."
I owe a lot to Digital. I was just starting out, but still in the Cambridge area, and I actually got a borrowed computer and then a credit line, direct with them. While I did have my own computer at the time, it was nothing like what I needed. We stuck with DEC for quite a while, even after switching to being mostly a Sun shop. They were immensely helpful but sort of stagnated which is why we ended up going to Sun. We still used workstations from DEC for a while before moving to the SPARCstation models.
I'd worked with DEC with my research project. They literally *loaned* me the computer post-graduation and I didn't pay for it until I got the initial funds for the first contract. The awesome thing was, they didn't even charge me full price for it - it was used, after all. So, they got a bunch of money from us. For what I was doing, it was cost effective to upgrade often.
I want to say that we had some networking gear from them at one point but I may be misremembering? Did DEC make networking gear? I want to say that, for a while, we even had modems from DEC? Hmm... This was early 1990s through to mid-late 1990s. I think our relationship began in 1988? I'd probably not be far off to say that we had some of their Alpha boxes until 2000 or so.
Then they ended up with financial issues and were sold/acquired, maybe? Hmm... I want to say Compaq bought 'em but my memory's fuzzy and you probably recall better than I do. I'm not sure if they went through another company before that or not too long after that. Ah well... They were a great company and they made great equipment though I'm surely a little biased. I want to say that I actually still have one of their workstations somewhere, tucked away in storage and held onto for posterity, but I really can't be certain and I'm not exactly in a position to check.
I don't know if they're correct but I've had people tell me that I'm pretty bright. I don't have much specific domain knowledge but I've read a whole lot of links (including the official documentation, as in the tech docs) and I'm not actually sure that it'd be all that easy to get into an iPhone with the secure enclave, at least not without Apple's help.
If you add to this that people can use really long passwords and then just use a fingerprint (on the newer models) then I'm not really sure they can get in at all. There's no brute forcing that 52 (I think was the maximum) character password. It's just not gonna happen before the heat death of the universe. That's something like 3.56648779139e+123 possible combinations, you've got ten tries.
I have thought of one way. Maybe... At some point, they're sending some sort of signal that's saying to delete a key. Get some practice phones, find that signal, and figure out how to interrupt it. Then, maybe, the OS will let you have more than ten tries. I have to wonder if there's another method that might be done on the bus between points. It sure as hell isn't going to be easy.
On top of that, you're still (as near as I can tell) very much correct. When the AC said "only Apple" they're making a huge assumption that the ability to sign things in the name of Apple has not found its way into the hands of people who are, quite specifically, not Apple. It seems to me that making such an assumption is borderline retarded.
Hmm... I'm gonna have to detour on that Moore's Law bit.
Moore's Law is still happening, except we're not noticing. The law's only about the number of transistors. It doesn't actually have anything to do with speed. We, the consumers, aren't paying for the 24 core CPUs and, I guess, AMD is supposed to be dropping one at 32 cores in the not-to-distant future. I suspect that Moore's Law is still, at least partially, true in that we've got the tech - we're just not utilizing it. I guess Moore's Law is still largely in effect. I haven't crunched the numbers and I suspect that a part of the reason for the slowdown is the expense. I'm guessing that it can still continue, for a while longer at least, but that we're not going to pay that much for a CPU and the vast majority of us couldn't even utilize it in our home computers.
Then, to make it worse, nothing is really optimized to take advantage of all the cores and threads. When was the last time you compiled stuff for yourself and remembered to throw the number of cores switch on to match your hardware? How much code actually was written to support it? How much code was written that will benefit from it?
There have been speed increases but they're pretty slight. I seem to recall that we could bust out at nearly 3 GHz back in 2008. Today, we're not much over 3 unless we overclock. Some of the I7 chips are up at 4.2 and I guess (I've not tried) they can be OCed to about 5 GHz. Which leads me to another thing. I've not actually overclocked a thing in years. I haven't bothered, I don't need to. It's "fast enough."
Not long ago, I mentioned an iPhone 4c. For what it is, it's not bad. It's not bad at all. (I've recently outfitted the two little hoodlums - long story - with a couple of Windows phones, because I can.*) It's old, as far as phones go. Yet, it's still pretty snappy. Of course, I didn't load a bunch of apps on it but I put a few on there and played around with it. If I didn't already have dozens of devices that fill every possible niche that fills, well... I'd probably use it. I still have no idea how well it works as a phone but I'll probably give the next iPad a shot. If I don't like it then I'm sure someone else will give it a happy home. It depends on how well I get Linux to run on one of the Surface Pro 4 tablets.
There are some interesting new tech bits but we're so used to seeing it that we don't even notice. Imagine, if you will, if you could get an external video card that enabled this and had enough throughput, bidirectional, that made running this hardware actually viable on a Mac? Well, in theory at least, you can. No problem. You can get an external video card with enough gumption to drive this device. Hell, you can get it at a price that's lower than a new car - try that just a dozen years ago. Yeah, you can do that. It doesn't seem as impressive as it is but that's actually kind of impressive.
* Long story, I'll type out a few of the details, if you're actually curious. I've some sort of (potentially) pressing matters so I'm operating as if I'm time constrained. Basically, I'm hoping to do a bit of travel on Monday and I've set things in motion to do so.
We need to get some designs made up for Sanders/Trump and Trump/Sanders bumper stickers. Way back when, I got a bumper sticker made up that said, "Archie Bunker for President!" I got given the finger, a lot. It was hilarious.
Anyhow, the president has plenty of power, just not as much as most people think. We'll likely end up with a stalled Congress and maybe, just maybe, they'll learn to compromise and actually consider working for the people. Well, it *could* happen.
I don't really like being in the position of defending Trump but when has he said he'd attack foreign people and countries? Specifically?
I checked Google and the only thing I'm seeing is where he said he'd have opened fire on the Paris terrorists. I guess, with some mental gymnastics, one could construe that into saying that he'd attack foreign people and countries? However, I'm pretty sure that even some of the French said that. Actually, I think they did.
There's some merit in that idea. I did propose a solution which would result in my voting for Trump. Put him as VP alongside Sanders - it's just crazy enough to work. It's not like Congress is going to let either one of them do anything meaningful. We might as well give us the best entertainment money can buy, or something like that.
I'm not big on conspiracy theories or things of that nature. I'm really not... However! (You knew that was coming, didn't you?) I know this is probably *not* the case but I have wondered if Trump's actually a spoiler that has gone horribly wrong - or fantastically correct. He's completely disrupted the GOP. I don't watch television or see any ads online but I understand he hasn't even been paying for ads. (That's particularly clever and we were sort of discussing that in a journal post last night/this morning.)
What if Trump's not meant to win but is just meant to take enough votes from the Republicans to make the ride a bit easier for the Democrats? He is good friends with Hillary, after all. I'm pretty sure that's a complete bastardization of the political process but I'd not put it past them. I'm also guessing that we'd not hear about it until well after the deed is done and can no longer be undone.
To be clear, I'm absolutely NOT suggesting that is the case. (Sadly, this is Slashdot and I'm compelled to clarify that.) It's not even an accusation. It's just more of a, "What if?" It's probably not illegal. I'm thinking that it might be adequate for impeachment but this is a Clinton we're talking about. They could even be banking on it not becoming obvious until well after the fact. It really wouldn't even require a lot of other people to be involved and they could easily do it with leaving little to no information behind.
Hell, one or both of them could be in a position where they have either plausible deniability or no actual knowledge to begin with. Heh, almost Manchurian in nature. At the very least, it could be fairly easy to get someone in Trump's position motivated to run and convinced he thought it all up himself. It might actually make an interesting novel or movie.
At any rate, I'd absolutely have no choice but to vote for a Sanders/Trump ticket. I might even vote a Trump/Sanders ticket. Why? It's not that I don't like you but that it would be the most amusing four years in my life, collectively speaking. I bet not a day goes by that I'm not given cause to laugh like hell.
In the words of the immortal Chink: Ha ha, ho ho, he he! (Should not be an obscure reference on Slashdot.)
I've been a pretty avid fan and user of VNC, in one form or another, for a very long time. Is there any reason for me to care about this? Almost nothing I try wants to forward the GUI over SSH anyhow. What benefit does Wayland, eventually, offer? Is there any compelling reason to change?
I sometimes rally race. Nothing fancy, just an amateur, and my car (Saab 900S Turbo) has a blown engine - so, definitely nothing fancy. Anyhow, DNF means "Did Not Finish" to me.
I'm thinking with Hurd as the topic, DNF just might be applicable on a number of levels.*
(*) Sorry RMS, but it's true. Please don't appear in the middle of the night with a Samurai sword and kill me while I sleep.
> Publishing a plugin architecture so open to privilege escalation should be illegal.
Really? Illegal? Really?
I read that not once, but twice, as "I'm used to being PC." I guffawed.
While that might be true, I'm pretty sure I don't tie my identity to my OS, programming language, web language, sports team, religion, or any of those things. So, I'll chuck all the stones I want. I use the tool that suits me best, don't need affirmation, and am willing to change if something better comes along. Hell, in the case of operating systems - I've got a whole variety of them and use them all regularly. I'd even speculate that I've purchased, on my own and with my own funds - not at the behest of a company, more Apple devices than anyone in this thread.
So yes, yes I will chuck stones. If you're so mentally dependent on something you've not had any hand in enough to the point where you're ceasing to be rational there's serious mental defects going on and seeking professional help might be a logical step. When one has their identity tied into an act not of their own to the point where they're no longer capable of rational thought, there's a problem. Be it Windows, Linux, Java, Patriots, Ford, Jesus, or Maker's Mark - it's either stupid or unhealthy or both.
Do something, anything, more meaningful and develop and identity and some pride in yourself. There's nothing wrong with having some healthy pride in oneself. Obviously, it's unhealthy to go to extremes and unwarranted self-importance. Learn to play an instrument, raise a healthy and happy dog, climb a mountain, paint a picture, write some software, feed the hungry, whatever it takes - do it. When you cease being rational, it's something you should SERIOUSLY consider looking into.
By most definitions, I'm not even a "PC user." It's not like I'm defending them. I could care less what OS they're using. But this, this is irrational:
Sure it looks a little messier, but who cares? Not Mac users, it seems to be the PC guys that are fussy about looks over performance.
I'm not really sure if I can help you if you can't understand that. Given your comment about stone throwing, I'm curious if you even bothered to read it. It's not like I've not made my views on things abundantly clear - and consistently so, over a period of many, many years. Hell, it's not like I even think I'm the epitome of perfection or the pinnacle of intellect.
I know this is hard to understand but, as I posted above, Mozilla is not getting rid of Thunderbird. Read the actual press-release yourself. Read what they're saying. Read what they're doing. They're moving it to another part of the organization so that they can more easily keep it separate from Firefox. They kind of have to because the framework is about to change and the old-style add-ons are not going to work with the new versions of Firefox but they want to keep those add-on styles for Thunderbird.
I already said this so I'll post this as an AC. I'm time-limited today. I encourage you to actually see what's going on instead of relying on others to interpret things for you. Read more than the comments at this site - read the actual releases, see the actual practices, read the actual article. Well, fuck that last one... Ain't no one got time for article reading when we've got lit torches and an agenda.
Seriously, there are no plans to kill Thunderbird - at least no announced plans. They're still actively developing it. It's just to reduce the "technical deficit" caused by keeping Firefox and Thunderbird together. Firefox is getting some sort of Chrome extension stuff. Thunderbird is not. The parts of Thunderbird that rely on Firefox are going to have to be developed slightly differently because of this.
As I stated above, I'm really inclined to think that it was a willful misinterpretation that resulted in the belief that Mozilla is casting aside Thunderbird. They are not. In fact, Thunderbird is now up to something like 10,000,000 *daily* requests for a block file on their server - so, some rough metrics. They are not going to kill that. It is still very much active. It's basically the equivalent of a corporation's reorganization. It might fail, it might not. It might get halted in the future, it might not. However, the current goal is not, in fact, to kill the project.
Does anyone actually read at this site? How about this for a link, I just had it open from following someone else's link so it's still in my browser's history though I'd read it a couple of months ago:
https://blog.mozilla.org/thund...
They are NOT killing off Thunderbird.