They know about it. They did offer me a substantial discount on a new one, but in the past I bought a new studio machine every five years. This one we're discussing gave me just over a year of drama-laden, buggy service. I'm done. Burned out. Maybe I was just unlucky, but I don't care anymore. I've moved on. There's undoubtedly a lesson in that for Apple.
The whole time that expensive waste of time was going on, the same old G4 running Tiger just kept on working without a problem. I found there was a lesson in that for me.:)
My personal machines run Linux and FreeBSD, so it's fine with me to use a G4 running Tiger for the studio. If I had to do video it wouldn't work, but with audio it'll probably be fine for years. Best of all, dual G4 machines running at 1+GHz can be had for a song.
That's just shitty customer service though. It's a huge PITA to dismantle the studio's computer, pack it up, and drive it to the Apple Store. That machine went through three mobos in one year and three weeks! They just didn't care enough to do it properly AFAIC. It's too much to expect people who've paid so much money for your product to then have to jump through so many hoops to get what they paid for. I've owned and managed a pretty large number of machines over the years, and have never accepted being treated as if my time was so trivial to abuse. They should have damn well replaced it the first time it died, rather than subjecting me to their silly repair shenanigans.
It was; I recall very clearly that it stopped working and the official answer was "because no-one uses it". They may have restored it since then, but they definitely did eliminate it via an update in 10.4 years ago.
Sorry, didn't mean to give the impression I have anything to prove here. I was merely sharing my experiences, YMMV. But you know, the wikitard response contributes nothing. Do you have any relevant experiences you'd like to contribute to the discussion?
You're probably referring to single user mode. That's not the same as having a full-fledged console login with all services available. As soon as you exit single user mode the GUI comes up.
As I said, the problem was the only answer they seem to have at the Applestore (at Lennox Mall, Atlanta) is "replace the 'logic board'". And when that "logic board" dies, replace it again. That'll fix it!
They may have been trying to just patch it up and get rid of me because I was nearly out of warranty and by "fixing it" to work for just a few more weeks they expected I'd be back with cash to spend. Maybe that works on some people, but when it died yet again, this time out of warranty, I just junked it and replaced it with an old tank of a G4 running Tiger (It's a recording studio Mac, not a personal machine). It isn't as if the state of multitrack recording software has changed all that much in the last decade.:) So until Linux has it's pro multimedia act together I'll just use the old Macs that were tanks and ran forever with the old software. They still work just fine for that purpose.
I think you're probably correct about the direction Apple is headed in. I bought my first Mac in 1987 but their behavior has effectively alienated me the last couple of years, along with the fact that OS X is nearly as buggy as windows now, and plus the Applestore techs were not competent to repair the last Mac I owned (If you have to replace the replacement "logic board" then maybe the problem wasn't ever the "logic board").
As far as the OS goes, Tiger was the pinnacle -- it's gone downhill since then. I think I knew in my heart this would happen in 2005, the day they issued the Tiger update that eliminated console login.
They don't realise that paying a bit more for a few Good people would save them money in the long run, instead of flooding the ranks with monkeys.
Bingo. Companies are less willing to pay what a job is worth, so they end up with people who don't have the skills or experience to do the job properly. Of course, sometimes they are paying well but the company just has a crappy culture of doing things half-assed. I can think of at least one tech giant that meets that description...
It is pretty simple to get rid of them in Linux, probably the same on windows. You just have to know where the files are being stored, which isn't hard. Every time you delete the.adobe and.macromedia directories, you get to start fresh. And you only need a few files in your ~/.mozilla directory to recreate your config automagically, so copy those out and restore them to your periodically fresh.mozilla. I don't know why everyone thinks this stuff is so complicated...
A funny thing about that... When I was new to Linux and FreeBSD I often got frustrated with inadequate, semi-or-non-functional GUIs and used to think, "when I learn a little more I'm going to fix that". But then eventually I realized the CLI is where it's at. Once you learn enough of it to become resourceful enough to get by usually referring only to man pages, --help, and STFW you might come to a point where you don't want to go backwards, and that trying to achieve everything you like in a GUI is usually just a big waste of time because it probably works fine from the CLI. Especially if it can be scripted. Scriptable interfaces are infinitely more useful than "intuitive" GUIs.
Well, I'm so sorry if my competence interferes with your poor self-image. I happen to be a busy adult professional who enjoys knowing what I'm doing. I think insecure know-nothings like you are the ones who should "stop commenting on slashdot and let the grownups do it", to use your words -- especially since this is supposed to be News for Nerds (as opposed to whiney mamby-pambies who want everything spoon fed to them). Thanks.
You sure do like making erroneous assumptions, don't you?:D I grew up on a farm, and can assure you there is very little technology in my life which is mysterious to me. When your choices are "make it go or starve" growing up, you learn to be pretty darn capable with pretty much any kind of machinery.
Reality is, this isn't dark ages any more.
It is for all you helpless people who don't like to learn anything.
The truth is that unskilled users have very little value to the *nix community at large, and virtually no value whatsoever to the FOSS dev community. Harsh reality, but that's how it is. If you want to use DefaultOS (windows) then there are tons of very user-friendly tweaks available because it's a ubiquitous system. If you want to use something better which is open and free the bar is higher. Clear it or don't, it makes no difference to me. There's a vocal minority of Linux zealots who make people think we all want everyone to use Linux, but most of us really don't care whether or not you find the system easy to use. We just learn what we need to learn so we can get on with life without feeling we're held hostage by some mean group of devs who won't magically make everything pointy-clicky for us.:)
As for frozen food, you are wrong to assume that. I never eat frozen food, and happen to be a pretty good cook who exercises that skill daily, using fresh, natural ingredients.
Some people are simply conscientious and care about the things that are important to them. Others sit around trying to tell others "how they should make it go". I guess the world would be pretty boring if we were all the same, but I like having skills. They make my life better.
I prefer ipfw (Altq is a major advantage IMO), but it's a bit like arguing about vi vs emacs -- either will do the job, just depends on how you like to work.
Is there any such thing as full rooting on a device with a locked bootloader though? I know there might be one or two android devices left on the market without a locked bootloader, but it seems all the new stuff is locked down. I think one can only get the illusion of "root" in that case. If you're using your carrier's kernel, you still don't know for sure what the system is doing.
No, they should not. That's the problem with android in a nutshell -- it's TiVo-ized Linux turned into an advertising platform, provided to you via your carrier and a ginormous advertising company. Do not want.
In my case, you can add that I can no longer be bothered with hacking around in a box, I want the damn thing to work so I can get stuff done. Both LS and HO pop up when they have a question, but leave me otherwise to work. FIne by me.
Actually, configuring ipfw is incredibly simple. Beyond most OS X users probably, but anyone who can install and configure *BSD will not be daunted by the five minutes or so it takes to set up ipfw.:)
But of course your choice is valid and requires one to know or remember almost nothing, which is perhaps key for most users. Personally, I do not want popups interrupting me when I'm working, and since a proper firewall comes down to defining a handful of rules (or less) up front and then being left alone forever, that's certainly my preference.
There's a reason the CLI remains the first choice of admins and coders, too -- it's the most powerful interface. It won't be going away in the next fifty years, and may still be with us in a thousand. Users who think "the computer needs to learn me" rather than the other way around will always have a low ceiling on their competence level and will always be frustrated.
As far as the "not usable" BS, really who cares? Competent people use *nix, most people are not competent. It's old news, and I really don't care what you use, frankly. Just trying to be helpful...
Considering there's nothing as feature-complete as IPtables on Linux, I think your best bet is to learn that rather than rely upon some limited GUI interface.
Ha, I remember that. On a lot of sets a tiny dot of light would appear in the middle of the screen, then after about five seconds or so the dot would inflate to fill the screen. There was hardly ever anything on back then, too...
Reading this discussion, I have to say: I feel a bit vindicated. For years I've pointed out to people who think they are "empowered" by GUIs that this is fine for beginners, but if one doesn't advance in knowledge of how to best use the machine then the day will always come when you're stuck because a certain radio button broke and you can't click it anymore or something silly like that. GUIs are fickle and fragile, the popular ones even more than most others (due to delusions of rockstardom, see how many projects fall apart after becoming successful), and so learning how to use a GUI and stopping there is very limiting.
Having rubbed everyone's noses in it a bit (sorry) I will say that fluxbox, windowmaker, and a few other old, very stable and rarely changed window managers will give you all the tools you need with a bit of help from various small system utilities. After a week or so of adjustment, you'll find your fund of knowledge is increasing rapidly as a side benefit. People will marvel at your proficiency! Of course most slashdot users will still call you an idiot for not using what they use.
Slashdot Mirror
They know about it. They did offer me a substantial discount on a new one, but in the past I bought a new studio machine every five years. This one we're discussing gave me just over a year of drama-laden, buggy service. I'm done. Burned out. Maybe I was just unlucky, but I don't care anymore. I've moved on. There's undoubtedly a lesson in that for Apple.
:)
The whole time that expensive waste of time was going on, the same old G4 running Tiger just kept on working without a problem. I found there was a lesson in that for me.
My personal machines run Linux and FreeBSD, so it's fine with me to use a G4 running Tiger for the studio. If I had to do video it wouldn't work, but with audio it'll probably be fine for years. Best of all, dual G4 machines running at 1+GHz can be had for a song.
That's just shitty customer service though. It's a huge PITA to dismantle the studio's computer, pack it up, and drive it to the Apple Store. That machine went through three mobos in one year and three weeks! They just didn't care enough to do it properly AFAIC. It's too much to expect people who've paid so much money for your product to then have to jump through so many hoops to get what they paid for. I've owned and managed a pretty large number of machines over the years, and have never accepted being treated as if my time was so trivial to abuse. They should have damn well replaced it the first time it died, rather than subjecting me to their silly repair shenanigans.
It was; I recall very clearly that it stopped working and the official answer was "because no-one uses it". They may have restored it since then, but they definitely did eliminate it via an update in 10.4 years ago.
Sorry, didn't mean to give the impression I have anything to prove here. I was merely sharing my experiences, YMMV. But you know, the wikitard response contributes nothing. Do you have any relevant experiences you'd like to contribute to the discussion?
It doesn't matter anymore. Apple is dead to me now ***sniff***
You're probably referring to single user mode. That's not the same as having a full-fledged console login with all services available. As soon as you exit single user mode the GUI comes up.
As I said, the problem was the only answer they seem to have at the Applestore (at Lennox Mall, Atlanta) is "replace the 'logic board'". And when that "logic board" dies, replace it again. That'll fix it!
:) So until Linux has it's pro multimedia act together I'll just use the old Macs that were tanks and ran forever with the old software. They still work just fine for that purpose.
They may have been trying to just patch it up and get rid of me because I was nearly out of warranty and by "fixing it" to work for just a few more weeks they expected I'd be back with cash to spend. Maybe that works on some people, but when it died yet again, this time out of warranty, I just junked it and replaced it with an old tank of a G4 running Tiger (It's a recording studio Mac, not a personal machine). It isn't as if the state of multitrack recording software has changed all that much in the last decade.
I think you're probably correct about the direction Apple is headed in. I bought my first Mac in 1987 but their behavior has effectively alienated me the last couple of years, along with the fact that OS X is nearly as buggy as windows now, and plus the Applestore techs were not competent to repair the last Mac I owned (If you have to replace the replacement "logic board" then maybe the problem wasn't ever the "logic board").
As far as the OS goes, Tiger was the pinnacle -- it's gone downhill since then. I think I knew in my heart this would happen in 2005, the day they issued the Tiger update that eliminated console login.
Bingo. Companies are less willing to pay what a job is worth, so they end up with people who don't have the skills or experience to do the job properly. Of course, sometimes they are paying well but the company just has a crappy culture of doing things half-assed. I can think of at least one tech giant that meets that description...
It is pretty simple to get rid of them in Linux, probably the same on windows. You just have to know where the files are being stored, which isn't hard. Every time you delete the .adobe and .macromedia directories, you get to start fresh. And you only need a few files in your ~/.mozilla directory to recreate your config automagically, so copy those out and restore them to your periodically fresh .mozilla. I don't know why everyone thinks this stuff is so complicated...
A funny thing about that... When I was new to Linux and FreeBSD I often got frustrated with inadequate, semi-or-non-functional GUIs and used to think, "when I learn a little more I'm going to fix that". But then eventually I realized the CLI is where it's at. Once you learn enough of it to become resourceful enough to get by usually referring only to man pages, --help, and STFW you might come to a point where you don't want to go backwards, and that trying to achieve everything you like in a GUI is usually just a big waste of time because it probably works fine from the CLI. Especially if it can be scripted. Scriptable interfaces are infinitely more useful than "intuitive" GUIs.
Well, I'm so sorry if my competence interferes with your poor self-image. I happen to be a busy adult professional who enjoys knowing what I'm doing. I think insecure know-nothings like you are the ones who should "stop commenting on slashdot and let the grownups do it", to use your words -- especially since this is supposed to be News for Nerds (as opposed to whiney mamby-pambies who want everything spoon fed to them). Thanks.
It is for all you helpless people who don't like to learn anything.
The truth is that unskilled users have very little value to the *nix community at large, and virtually no value whatsoever to the FOSS dev community. Harsh reality, but that's how it is. If you want to use DefaultOS (windows) then there are tons of very user-friendly tweaks available because it's a ubiquitous system. If you want to use something better which is open and free the bar is higher. Clear it or don't, it makes no difference to me. There's a vocal minority of Linux zealots who make people think we all want everyone to use Linux, but most of us really don't care whether or not you find the system easy to use. We just learn what we need to learn so we can get on with life without feeling we're held hostage by some mean group of devs who won't magically make everything pointy-clicky for us. :)
As for frozen food, you are wrong to assume that. I never eat frozen food, and happen to be a pretty good cook who exercises that skill daily, using fresh, natural ingredients.
Some people are simply conscientious and care about the things that are important to them. Others sit around trying to tell others "how they should make it go". I guess the world would be pretty boring if we were all the same, but I like having skills. They make my life better.
Steve Jobs is kind of a scary guy who's filthy rich -- I think Woz is probably smart enough to know when to be quiet.
I prefer ipfw (Altq is a major advantage IMO), but it's a bit like arguing about vi vs emacs -- either will do the job, just depends on how you like to work.
Is there any such thing as full rooting on a device with a locked bootloader though? I know there might be one or two android devices left on the market without a locked bootloader, but it seems all the new stuff is locked down. I think one can only get the illusion of "root" in that case. If you're using your carrier's kernel, you still don't know for sure what the system is doing.
No, they should not. That's the problem with android in a nutshell -- it's TiVo-ized Linux turned into an advertising platform, provided to you via your carrier and a ginormous advertising company. Do not want.
Actually, configuring ipfw is incredibly simple. Beyond most OS X users probably, but anyone who can install and configure *BSD will not be daunted by the five minutes or so it takes to set up ipfw. :)
But of course your choice is valid and requires one to know or remember almost nothing, which is perhaps key for most users. Personally, I do not want popups interrupting me when I'm working, and since a proper firewall comes down to defining a handful of rules (or less) up front and then being left alone forever, that's certainly my preference.
There's a reason the CLI remains the first choice of admins and coders, too -- it's the most powerful interface. It won't be going away in the next fifty years, and may still be with us in a thousand. Users who think "the computer needs to learn me" rather than the other way around will always have a low ceiling on their competence level and will always be frustrated.
As far as the "not usable" BS, really who cares? Competent people use *nix, most people are not competent. It's old news, and I really don't care what you use, frankly. Just trying to be helpful...
Considering there's nothing as feature-complete as IPtables on Linux, I think your best bet is to learn that rather than rely upon some limited GUI interface.
The hands-down best firewall for OS X (and other BSDs) is ipfw. No pointy-clicky though, so most Mac users won't use it.
Ha, I remember that. On a lot of sets a tiny dot of light would appear in the middle of the screen, then after about five seconds or so the dot would inflate to fill the screen. There was hardly ever anything on back then, too...
Other than the generic PC being a bit limiting if you want to learn more about cluster computing? Correct.
Reading this discussion, I have to say: I feel a bit vindicated. For years I've pointed out to people who think they are "empowered" by GUIs that this is fine for beginners, but if one doesn't advance in knowledge of how to best use the machine then the day will always come when you're stuck because a certain radio button broke and you can't click it anymore or something silly like that. GUIs are fickle and fragile, the popular ones even more than most others (due to delusions of rockstardom, see how many projects fall apart after becoming successful), and so learning how to use a GUI and stopping there is very limiting.
Having rubbed everyone's noses in it a bit (sorry) I will say that fluxbox, windowmaker, and a few other old, very stable and rarely changed window managers will give you all the tools you need with a bit of help from various small system utilities. After a week or so of adjustment, you'll find your fund of knowledge is increasing rapidly as a side benefit. People will marvel at your proficiency! Of course most slashdot users will still call you an idiot for not using what they use.