That is the key. They are trying to leverage the vast numbers of VB programmers out there and putting them on unix.
I'll bet that VB programmers might prefer creating/coding in VB on linux instead of windows. Because they won't have to deal with the instability of windows until the debug phase.
Now, you can say that you might miss a windows bug during the coding process that will really hurt at the debugging phase. That's all the more reason to test the correctness of your code every so often, for each platform you're coding. Which in this case is Unix and Windows. Nevermind the 20+ unixen out there, that's not really feasable, I understand. Although, less than 3 is ok.
Ok, so a lot of us started out in Basic. Are we still using basic? Have we moved over to more powerful languages? I know there will be people who won't go past basic. But they won't have to stay on windows because of that fact.
BTW, I've never used VB, and very little in basic.
" For those of you who are unaware, academic medicine is facing harsh pressures to cut back costs
and become profitable. This is a debate in and of itself, but I believe that a publicly funded
University (or any publicly funded environment) should be using tools that taxpayers helped
develop - especially if those tools are free to use. I believe that Linux is such a beast - for we
know it is free to use - and its development was indeed aided by taxpayer dollars in construction
of the medium that facilitated Linux's development. "
It looks to me that the current solutions are:
1) Very Expensive
2) Hard to work with
3) Hard to change (you don't have the source code, and couldn't even pay anyone other than the origional coders to update it)
All of these things make moving to a new system appealing. And moving to Linux just makes the foundation a lot more stable, not to mention the built in remote administration capabilities.
Reasons to upgrade to Linux:
1) He's already training the staff in Linux and networking
2) Free Databases
3) Free languages
Not for the love of Linux, but to fix an industry wide problem. It just happens to use a Unix variant -- Linux.
It seems that there are already a couple projects headed in this direction. Once they are mature enough, they will adapt for each locale easily enough.
Probably the best solution would be to have a generic interface, and let Consultants create external programs handle the locale's particulars. They could even distribute that with the main app.
You should also take into account the relative sizes of the two companies.
Intel is much bigger than AMD, and (I don't have the numbers in front of me) Intel's 77% is probably bigger than AMD's 138%.
Re:Criminy, what did you expect?
on
Is UNIX An OS?
·
· Score: 1
FlameBait?!!
Damn! If I had mod points, I'd give him a +1 funny!
"Apple people love their Macs. Granted, it's in the way that a parent can be fiercely devoted to their severely retarded firstborn, but that's how it is. And a magazine that makes money by helping Apple sell more Macs isn't likely to print an article titled Doh! I Wish I Had a Commandline! "
"If you got him alone, you'd have to start by explaining that the PC case is not a "CPU" "
Am I the only one that thought these things were funny?
Having been promoted to the MIS department of my company, (Lettershop/Fulfillment) and replacing one of the better Mac Heads arround. (We have a one person MIS Dept...) I can only laugh.
He actually does pretty well with most issues. I might be able to convert him to Linux/Unix.
Our Linux and NT servers *both* have uptimes in the months, with Linux beating NT in this category. But, with the Macs, they have to be restarted nightly!
I am in the process of migrating our Mac QuickMail and AppleShare IP 6.1 servers over to linux.
I was talking to someone demonstrating MacOS X at LinuxWorld/Comdex last year and he said... "Once we got Apache working on it, we shipped."
And the Mac people have been claiming that they were more secure because they didn't have a command line... I wonder what they're saying now.
Because with most AOLers on IRC and the web, they usually don't read instructions on how to subscribe or they TALK IN ALL CAPS, or demand for help in the worst possible way.
This is the attitude you will see twards most AOL people from the Internet croud. Bacause this is what the VAST majority is composed.
>>oops, my bad. I thought by attacking GNU/Linux that he must have been a BSD bigot.
Didn't you even read his message?
C'mon people, it's this kind of thing that is so common and frustrating when you try to teach people.
It's like when someone gets a message from the mail server that says "Your message has been delayed for X hours". They come to me and ask me what it means. When in the body of the message it will say something like "Connection Timed out" and "The message was auto generated by Email Server Software".
It's like the "Push" and "Pull" signs on doors, when they already have a handle that is only made for pulling, or when there is a rectangle of metal for pushing on.
When things are spelled out in plain english, the average person doesn't even read it! This issue affects everyone, from Cashiers all the way to IT managers.
Ok, I'm done with my rant.
Does anyone have any ideas on improving this situation?
I haven't used anything besides linux in the *nix os area, but I can see why this happens.
Linux is saying "we're better than microsoft".
FreeBSD says "We're faster than Linux".
NetBSD says "We'll run on your watch, and your toaster and...".
OpenBSD says "We're almost uncrackable and better than FreeBSD, so we're better than linux too!".
This is just like music. Everyone has their preference, and some like almost all of them.
Let's look at it this way. We're all basically all Unix. So, we should unite against Microsoft! Ok, now I got that out of my system.
BSD, Linux, Solarix, etc, became so solid because their developers concentrated on the quality/features/stability of the project. Be it a kernel, server daemon or utility.
I think if we look at similar, but seperate projects, such as the xBSDs and linux, we can see something we should be doing and learn. "Can't we all just get along?" Even if the sayer (Rodney King, of LA, California) of the quote isn't the best example, it applies in this case.
I think linux will eventually have a dist much like OpenBSD, with it's auditing and all. Probabl Debian.
OpenBSD plants the seed in everyone head that there box is ultra secure and you have nothing to worry about. Then system administrators have a blind outlook that there box is so secure and that they can sloppily leave uneccessary services open. OpenBSD developers are only human and can make mistakes and overlook certain aspects. So its foolish to think the way u think. I have a OpenBSD and i still take time "secure the system" cause u can never be sure. None the less i applaud OpenBSD for being the first vendor and currently the only vendor for auditing there software.
The thing is, according to the article, and from other posts, there aren't any exploits to close in the initial install config.
I haven't used openBSD, so I can't tell for sure. Kinda like "IANAL".;)
Sure, the "next exploit is waiting to be discovered", and nothing is 100% secure, but it just so happens that it's going to get discovered much faster on Linux or NT than it is on OpenBSD. And the less often exploits are discovered, the less chance that someone will break in.
The whole idea of the audits is to find the hole before it is found, thus making fewer holes to exploit.
I haven't used openBSD, but I will eventually. I have used linux since kernel 2.0.35. Everyone always laments about the newbies and their redhat/mandrake/etc distros and all the daemons available to crack into.
I think this article might start more people (hopefully the distro makers) on this very good habbit.
Actually, you only need to get a line that isn't split/modified_for_phone. As stated in the article. "I ordered 1 pair of dry, unloaded, unconditioned, copper pair from my office to each location"
I wonder if it's that cheap in areas where dls is already available.
With dsl modems so expensive, I don't think it'll be very popular.
Does anyone know the prices for the pci dsl modems? Will they work with linux? Or, do we need to get the external hub and then connect it t o an existing ethernet like before?
Slashdot Mirror
Ha ha ha, very funny.
"I hate learning new languages all the time"
That is the key. They are trying to leverage the vast numbers of VB programmers out there and putting them on unix.
I'll bet that VB programmers might prefer creating/coding in VB on linux instead of windows. Because they won't have to deal with the instability of windows until the debug phase.
Now, you can say that you might miss a windows bug during the coding process that will really hurt at the debugging phase. That's all the more reason to test the correctness of your code every so often, for each platform you're coding. Which in this case is Unix and Windows. Nevermind the 20+ unixen out there, that's not really feasable, I understand. Although, less than 3 is ok.
Ok, so a lot of us started out in Basic. Are we still using basic? Have we moved over to more powerful languages? I know there will be people who won't go past basic. But they won't have to stay on windows because of that fact.
BTW, I've never used VB, and very little in basic.
How different is this from "X was designed on Windows! It sucks!"?
If you look deeper into this issue, it sure makes you think. Doesn't it?
It looks to me that the current solutions are:
1) Very Expensive
2) Hard to work with
3) Hard to change (you don't have the source code, and couldn't even pay anyone other than the origional coders to update it)
All of these things make moving to a new system appealing. And moving to Linux just makes the foundation a lot more stable, not to mention the built in remote administration capabilities.
Reasons to upgrade to Linux:
1) He's already training the staff in Linux and networking
2) Free Databases
3) Free languages
No
Not for the love of Linux, but to fix an industry wide problem. It just happens to use a Unix variant -- Linux.
It seems that there are already a couple projects headed in this direction. Once they are mature enough, they will adapt for each locale easily enough.
Probably the best solution would be to have a generic interface, and let Consultants create external programs handle the locale's particulars. They could even distribute that with the main app.
Uhmm...
Don't forget that the cray has _16_ compared to the 8 G4s.
Don't forget, there is still the Meta-Code in the processor. Just imaging...
P4 2G SP2...
Nah, It'll never happen...
You should also take into account the relative sizes of the two companies.
Intel is much bigger than AMD, and (I don't have the numbers in front of me) Intel's 77% is probably bigger than AMD's 138%.
FlameBait?!!
;)
Damn! If I had mod points, I'd give him a +1 funny!
"Apple people love their Macs. Granted, it's in the way that a parent can be fiercely devoted to their severely retarded firstborn, but that's how it is. And a magazine that makes money by helping Apple sell more Macs isn't likely to print an article titled Doh! I Wish I Had a Commandline! "
"If you got him alone, you'd have to start by explaining that the PC case is not a "CPU" "
Am I the only one that thought these things were funny?
Having been promoted to the MIS department of my company, (Lettershop/Fulfillment) and replacing one of the better Mac Heads arround. (We have a one person MIS Dept...) I can only laugh.
He actually does pretty well with most issues. I might be able to convert him to Linux/Unix.
Our Linux and NT servers *both* have uptimes in the months, with Linux beating NT in this category. But, with the Macs, they have to be restarted nightly!
I am in the process of migrating our Mac QuickMail and AppleShare IP 6.1 servers over to linux.
I was talking to someone demonstrating MacOS X at LinuxWorld/Comdex last year and he said... "Once we got Apache working on it, we shipped."
And the Mac people have been claiming that they were more secure because they didn't have a command line... I wonder what they're saying now.
"We're more secure because... Oh, Damn!"
Because with most AOLers on IRC and the web, they usually don't read instructions on how to subscribe or they TALK IN ALL CAPS, or demand for help in the worst possible way.
This is the attitude you will see twards most AOL people from the Internet croud. Bacause this is what the VAST majority is composed.
Mike
IIRC, this is only for write enabled mounts.
How can you fsck up a read only mount???
The problem with this is the asumption that your code won't be included with their project, and will be maintained seperately.
That is part of the open sourceness of a project.
Mike
But it wouldn't be fought as much as a profitless system such as the origional poster proposed.
You can have your cake (the unlimited TLDs) and profit too (imagine $5 domains?)
With this delay, and 3Dfx's obvious performance shortcommings, nVidia is going to continue gaining their lead.
>>oops, my bad. I thought by attacking GNU/Linux that he must have been a BSD bigot.
Didn't you even read his message?
C'mon people, it's this kind of thing that is so common and frustrating when you try to teach people.
It's like when someone gets a message from the mail server that says "Your message has been delayed for X hours". They come to me and ask me what it means. When in the body of the message it will say something like "Connection Timed out" and "The message was auto generated by Email Server Software".
It's like the "Push" and "Pull" signs on doors, when they already have a handle that is only made for pulling, or when there is a rectangle of metal for pushing on.
When things are spelled out in plain english, the average person doesn't even read it! This issue affects everyone, from Cashiers all the way to IT managers.
Ok, I'm done with my rant.
Does anyone have any ideas on improving this situation?
Mike
Windows Scripting Host comes with ie5 on ALL platforms. IE, win95, 98, NT, etc.
I know several people that own athlons with DDR GeForce 256s, with no probelms.
IIRC, the problem was with the irongate chipset.
Anyone have a mod point? Mod the parent to this message up! I laughed the second I saw the last line!
Mike
I'd like to know. What does ipfilter in "stateful" mode do that ipchains doesn't?
True, very true.
I haven't used anything besides linux in the *nix os area, but I can see why this happens.
Linux is saying "we're better than microsoft".
FreeBSD says "We're faster than Linux".
NetBSD says "We'll run on your watch, and your toaster and...".
OpenBSD says "We're almost uncrackable and better than FreeBSD, so we're better than linux too!".
This is just like music. Everyone has their preference, and some like almost all of them.
Let's look at it this way. We're all basically all Unix. So, we should unite against Microsoft! Ok, now I got that out of my system.
BSD, Linux, Solarix, etc, became so solid because their developers concentrated on the quality/features/stability of the project. Be it a kernel, server daemon or utility.
I think if we look at similar, but seperate projects, such as the xBSDs and linux, we can see something we should be doing and learn. "Can't we all just get along?" Even if the sayer (Rodney King, of LA, California) of the quote isn't the best example, it applies in this case.
I think linux will eventually have a dist much like OpenBSD, with it's auditing and all. Probabl Debian.
Mike
The thing is, according to the article, and from other posts, there aren't any exploits to close in the initial install config.
I haven't used openBSD, so I can't tell for sure. Kinda like "IANAL". ;)
The whole idea of the audits is to find the hole before it is found, thus making fewer holes to exploit.
I haven't used openBSD, but I will eventually. I have used linux since kernel 2.0.35. Everyone always laments about the newbies and their redhat/mandrake/etc distros and all the daemons available to crack into.
I think this article might start more people (hopefully the distro makers) on this very good habbit.
Mike
No, he rented/leased a dry (read, no dial tone) copper cable for $20/mo.
He bought a pair of dsl switches for $700.
He is a local isp on the smallish side, previously only offering dial up service.
He connected his home and a local hostital that was already one of his customers.
Lets see, what did I miss?
I wonder how much they cost. Hopefully, they're more reasonable than the xdsl switches.
Be warned, they use shockwave, I don't know if they have an unshocked site. :|
Actually, you only need to get a line that isn't split/modified_for_phone. As stated in the article. "I ordered 1 pair of dry, unloaded, unconditioned, copper pair from my office to each location"
I wonder if it's that cheap in areas where dls is already available.
With dsl modems so expensive, I don't think it'll be very popular.
Does anyone know the prices for the pci dsl modems? Will they work with linux? Or, do we need to get the external hub and then connect it t o an existing ethernet like before?