Hey, Sig, take a minute to read Hruntings post. There is really a point there: A recording and the ideas behind it *are* separate things.
If I have an idea about how to make a car and fulfil that by adding material and work, I have something beyond my idea: A car.
If I have an idea for a recipie and then add the ingredients and the time to cook it, I have something beyond my idea: a dish
If I have an idea for a book and then add the material and the work to actually write it, I have a product: a book
AND if I have an idea for a song and add the work to get a studio, musicians, material (instruments, DAT-tape, etc) and my own work, again I have a product:a recording.
Some people are succesfull in getting paid (or at least recognized), simply for having ideas. Wether this is this is a godgiven right or not is an intresting subject, but beside the point. However, everybody deserves the right to get paid or credited for their *work*
It should be up to the artist (or writer, or coder ) to decide the terms on which they release their *work* to the public. That should not be decided by record companies OR the slashdot readers.
If an artist sells the right to their *work* to a record company, its *their choice*.
If you really believe in the superiority of "free music", download mp3's that really are free, don't get the "pirated" mp3's claiming that you know better that the artist how they shoud release their songs.
This is (presumably) not a question of "benign" vs "evil" infringement. The question is wether it is a trademark infringement AT ALL.
US IP law has absolutely nothing to do with domains outside.us
Most words of any language are trademarked somewhere. Many of them are trademarked multiple times for different areas ("Linux" for example) A trademark on Coke as a beverage is not a generic right to the word "coke" anymore than Microsoft can prevent a glass manufacturer from selling "windows"
Perhaps I'm "married to NT" (or rather, have customers that are)
After doing a bit of database heavy development in ms-sql 7 and Oracle 8 the former actually wins big time. (and I was very prejudiced against ms-sql before)
ms-sql has flaws naturally, but they are mostly flaws in NT, not in the database server.
When we ported some functionality from ms-sql to oracle, instead of setting the permissions in one place (user NN has the right to excute these procedures and nothing else, everything else is reserved for the admin) we had to grant NN table rights in seven different places. Guess which method is more likely to leave security holes?
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Microsofts back office products are great When your time costs more than the licence fees
Windows and office etc is a completely different matter though. They are rather cheap (unless compared to free(beer) products) but end up costing you a ton of money in maintenance.
Please don't flame me but I've fallen in love with MS SQL Server after using it in a coupla projects.
Why? Mostly because the transactions and the stored procedures.
For one web project we had a real SQL guru writing procedures for every "legal" action. Life was *so* easy for those of us doing the web coding and *so* hard for anybody trying to abuse the system.
For once M$ has added useful features instead of talking paperclips.
In the case of books I have meant publishers themselves. They can organize their internet-assisted mail-order much easier than Amazon -- if cost of distribution is driven into the ground, why waste money on middleman like Amazon?
The publishers logistics are built for large scale deliveries to middlemen, not for consumer delivery. As long as there are physical products from different sources involved, there is a place for middlemen. Principles about patents aside, Amazon actually offers something more than a mere search engine. A search engine will only show me what I ask for, not related items. (unless someone builds a "meta-amazon" SE)
When company can't distingush itself in the eyes of consumers, no advertising will help
I repeat: The ads are there because they *work* Even the most brain dead diaper commercial is actually carefully manufactured to pay off. Pepsi and Coke monitor the effects of their advertising closely. Believe me: *They* *actually* *work*
Of course Amazon might die. There is no telling which dotcom will make it and which won't. The internet boom has given them a chance to expand faster than otherwise possible, but that just affects the time scale, not the principle. In the end, good business models survive and bad ones disappear.
The "internet boom" depends on investors believing in the boom. As more and more media is reporting "the internet boom is coming to an end" investors (ruled by their basic flock mentality) will believe that.
If a trusted source says "Stocks are overrated" the stocks fall. If a trusted source says "the dollar is insecure" the dollar falls. And if a trusted source says "The internet boom is over" then it is over.
Some dotcoms will survive, some will be eaten by those who do. I personally think that Amazon will be among the survivors if they play their cards right. "Books worldwide by web order" actually is a sound business idea. Once the boom is over they can cut down on advertising (since they already have a brand name) and live on sales rather than stock.
The company that sells 10*N books still has an avantage over the company that sells N books.
Companies spend money on advertising, not just to spend money, but to gain more customers and thereby gain the advantage of scale.
One of these days, you won't be able to raise cash simply by adding an e to your name. That day will be the day when the small dotcoms perish and the big ones grow even bigger.
I have absolutely no chance of looking at even a fraction of all published material. Online or off.
My only hope is to have some help searching sources and filtering out the goodies. Papers have done this for ages. They find intresting stories and sell me a compilation (together with some added content of their own)
Book publishers do the same. There are many crap books out there. Who hasn't thought of writing a book some time? I don't have the time or money to read everything, just to catch some books that I like. Instead I trust the publishers to find the gems. I know very well that I miss some authors that noone dares to publish. So? There is no chance that I'll catch everything.
/. works the same way as your average paper. It is just that the process of searching, filtering and adding comment is distributed among thousands of members.
What does an online bookstore give me? The same as a normal one. A preselection of titles to save me some time. Maybe I'll find this King Novella and note somewhere in the back of my head that King is worth (or not worth) reading. I'll also note that the site that published it gave me a hint. Perhaps I'll return for more. Perhaps the writer and publisher gained my attention. Perhaps I'll trust that publisher to select titles for me in the future too. Then we both won something.
The corporate drones are dinosaurs, and the doomsday asteroid has already hit. Sure they might straggle on for a while, and they can still make life uncomfortable for the fleet-footed fuzzies underfoot, but in the end they are doomed.
Oh but there is just one problem: Some of these dinosaurs *do* get it. They put the net into their old little toolbox of "old media", comersials, lawsuits, lobbying and what other means of influence they have.
Who do you think is more powerful: A bunch of geeks equipped with their techical skill and the net OR A bunch of global companies equipped with their political and legal skill, tons of money, political connections AND the net?
This is such a bad tecnology that only the really clueless will buy it. Anyone tried editing the "server name" string? No problem. Oops I'm suddenly a different customer in 7val's eyes.
Session tracking is not evil by itself. Abused tracking is, of course, but this is such a clumsy method that it is not likely to spread.
I dont want my (imaginary) son not to drink, because he fears my punishment. I want him to: a) Dont get into trouble because of premature drinking. b) Grow up to a person able to make his own wise decisions.
The same goes for porn. I dont want him to take sneak views of porn since I would punish him if I caught him. I want him to realize that porn is a relly perverted form of sexuality, and that by looking at a porn site he is supporting a really dirty business.
If I caught my teenage son watching porn I would not punish him. I would simply ask how he would feel if it was his sister or friend on that picture.
I really don't think that porn hurts the viewer much. (and the very young children accidentally exposed to porn will simply not understand what they are seeing) It *does* hurt the people involved though. *That* is why I'd like t block it. I dont want them to get any ad revenue from me. Period.
Linux users will laugh at you for using such a "stupid" language, and Windows Delphi programmers will insult you for using such a "stupid" OS.
No Stupid Linux users will laugh at you for using such a "stupid" language, and stupid Windows Delphi programmers will insult you for using such a "stupid" OS.
Users and programmers with any clue will use whats best for the job.
Those who discard a good tool as "Stupid" will soon have to learn that their new boss won't let them call customers "stupid" because they "don't want fries with that"
Delphi is my platform of choice for Win development.
Sure, there are other languages better suited for different jobs. For an allrounder, though, Delphi rules.
Why? Combine a low lerarning threshold with decent power and you have a winner. Sure VB is easier, but you end up wanting more juice. Sure C++ is a lot more powerful, but debugging (esp other peoples code) is a nightmare. Sure perl is nice, up to 20 lines of code...
What Linux is lacking is RAD tools to quickly put a dummy-proof layer between the code and the user.
Wear your seatbelt, a helmet, and a condom -- take responsibility for yourself, and don't come stealing my money to pay your medical bills.
I've got some news for you: Accidents and diseases is not something that just happens to people who "don't run [their] life right" Life is not fair. Noone can afford treatment for a serious condition without some form of insurance. I actually believe that the government is better suited to handle that insurance, since it is in their best interest to keep me well, voting for them and paying my taxes.
Wouldn't this be a "Ask Slashdot"?
on
Database Nation
·
· Score: 2
(Not a real reply, griffjon, but your post triggered me)
There seems to be a double standard here on/.
Everyone is 100% for their own privacy. At the same time it is claimed "If the information is accessible, it is OK to use it", "Information wants to be free" etc
The net (or the electronic society to use a Katz-ism) is making more and more information accessible and searchable. That includes info about YOU as well as about software specs.
The information is out there. And if we can lobby for laws to restrict it's use (in the name of privacy) so can the corporations (in the name of protection of property)
You might argue that personal info is different from other info and deserves special protection. I agree. However, as shown in the DeCSS case and others: If protection can be circumvented, it will.
If you are anonymous, you have no rights (since rights are given to people, not computer sessions) If you are logged in you will leave a trail.
On a more direct reply:
What the heck does a bouncing ball has to do with privacy? If someone knows that I went to an exibition, that tells them... That I went to the exibition. Nothing more. Is your idea of privacy the same as absolute non-interaction? Cause that is the alternative.
Let's keep the two issues separate: Databases as a threat to privacy is one thing, "ID spoofing" is another.
It does not matter if someone ruins my life by calling someone, saying "Hi I'm guran, shut down my account please" or "Hi I'm 123-456-789-0, shut down my account please"
Since when are usernames, or SS# alone an acceptable form of identification?
People growl at the thought of having to edit a text file to make an adjustment or configuration. Geeks say "Awesome - text file" and whine to people to just learn how to do it.
Why the heck does not more developers mix GUI and text?
*Store* everything in editable format (preferably XML style). Easily accessible for the admin. Throw a GUI shell over it. Make some labeled drop downs and checkboxen to explain the effect of the settings and to provide a non-expert way to fiddle with the file. Make damn sure that the connection between GUI and text is documented.
My favorite windows text editor (Kedit) is a good example of how to mix GUI and text. Every setting, keypress and menu command has a command line equivalent. My hands seldom leave the keyboard, since it is much faster for me to do a command line "c/foo/bar/all *" then to fire up a searh and replace dialog and type "foo" in one edit space, "bar" in another and check the appropriate options (every line, every instance on each line). However, a newbie would certainly use the menu.
Hey, has anyone defined a DTD for.ini-files? After that it would be rather easy to make a generalized.ini-file GUI.
Non-citizens (businesses, institutions) may not provide to a third party information specific to a private citizen without the express written consent of the private citizen.
Won't do I'm afraid. To begin with it would make the phone book illegal. The same for e-mail lookup services. It would simply be to hard to get personal data for valid reasons.
OTOH it would be quite easy to go around such a law. So we can't sell our info to marketing companies? Well, then we will sell the marketing service itself. So we cant buy that information? Lets buy the company that has the information. (or if they are too big to be bought, let them split out a database branch, that can be sold).
I have no big problem with *correct* info about me used in the *intended* way. What I want is for it to be very dangerous for a company to use or sell incorrect data, or to use it against the terms I once agreed to. Thereby restricting database marketing to really profitable areas, not the "throw out a million hooks and something will catch" schemes.
If there is one principle that should be put into law as quickly as possible, it is:
Everyone is entitled to monitor any record about themselves
Then continue with principles like:
Every person or company who uses database records to contact you or in any other way influence your life is required to disclose (at their expence) the source of their information.
And
Every company or person that is providing data about a third paty on a comersial basis is responsible for the accuracy of that data
Good software is written so that a stupid lump of metal and silicon, using nothing but its own specifications and my code, can do what I intended for every possible input. There should be no cause for the computer to second guess my intent; If there is an exception to the general rule, I should have stated that clearly in my code.
A good law should be written so that a judge, using nothing but the constitution and applicable law, can give intended ruling for every possible situation. There should be no need for a judge (or jury) to second guess the "intent" or "spirit" of the law; If there is an exception, it should be clearly stated in the law.
Of course one must remember that laws deal with human beings instead of bits, but the likeness in criteria still stands.
And I hear that bad data gets sent to dev/null in Texas...
Scenario: Somebody registers YOUR name, they make money out of things YOU have done. They trade on YOUR brand, on YOUR image
Registering YOUR name: It is not MY name in the sense of MY exclusive property. If two companies or organisations would not be able to share the same name, we would have to use serial numbers instead.
Making money out of things YOU have done. That is not the same thing. Copyright, trademark or patent infringement are allready criminal. There is no need for a law that says "Oh yeah, the same applies to the web"
Trading on YOUR brand, on YOUR image Again a separete offence. In your Manchester United example: Writing/posting/shouting "Manchester United sucks" is no offence. (or every fan club would be criminal). Registering manchesterunited.co.uk is not neccessarily wrong. After all it was a page *about* united, even if it was not *by* them.
What *would* be wrong (and probably illegal) is to pretend that you are representing someone else. A slashdot.com site pretending to be slashdot.org would be wrong. So would a www.mikrosoft.com site selling similar software.
How would you like me to register www.slashdot.com and use it to vent my frustrations against everything/. stands for?
Why don't you post your frustrations as AC or after writing "This will certainly be moderated down but..." like the rest of us:-)
Slashdot Mirror
Hey, Sig, take a minute to read Hruntings post. There is really a point there: A recording and the ideas behind it *are* separate things.
If I have an idea about how to make a car and fulfil that by adding material and work, I have something beyond my idea: A car.
If I have an idea for a recipie and then add the ingredients and the time to cook it, I have something beyond my idea: a dish
If I have an idea for a book and then add the material and the work to actually write it, I have a product: a book
AND if I have an idea for a song and add the work to get a studio, musicians, material (instruments, DAT-tape, etc) and my own work, again I have a product:a recording.
Some people are succesfull in getting paid (or at least recognized), simply for having ideas. Wether this is this is a godgiven right or not is an intresting subject, but beside the point. However, everybody deserves the right to get paid or credited for their *work*
It should be up to the artist (or writer, or coder ) to decide the terms on which they release their *work* to the public. That should not be decided by record companies OR the slashdot readers.
If an artist sells the right to their *work* to a record company, its *their choice*.
If you really believe in the superiority of "free music", download mp3's that really are free, don't get the "pirated" mp3's claiming that you know better that the artist how they shoud release their songs.
(Note: I don't claim to live as I learn...)
And, yes, the enterprise manager *is* a piece of junk. Especially the latest version.
US IP law has absolutely nothing to do with domains outside .us
Most words of any language are trademarked somewhere. Many of them are trademarked multiple times for different areas ("Linux" for example)
A trademark on Coke as a beverage is not a generic right to the word "coke" anymore than Microsoft can prevent a glass manufacturer from selling "windows"
After doing a bit of database heavy development in ms-sql 7 and Oracle 8 the former actually wins big time. (and I was very prejudiced against ms-sql before)
ms-sql has flaws naturally, but they are mostly flaws in NT, not in the database server.
When we ported some functionality from ms-sql to oracle, instead of setting the permissions in one place (user NN has the right to excute these procedures and nothing else, everything else is reserved for the admin) we had to grant NN table rights in seven different places. Guess which method is more likely to leave security holes?
I've said it before and I'll say it again:
Microsofts back office products are great When your time costs more than the licence fees
Windows and office etc is a completely different matter though. They are rather cheap (unless compared to free(beer) products) but end up costing you a ton of money in maintenance.
Why? Mostly because the transactions and the stored procedures.
For one web project we had a real SQL guru writing procedures for every "legal" action. Life was *so* easy for those of us doing the web coding and *so* hard for anybody trying to abuse the system.
For once M$ has added useful features instead of talking paperclips.
The publishers logistics are built for large scale deliveries to middlemen, not for consumer delivery. As long as there are physical products from different sources involved, there is a place for middlemen. Principles about patents aside, Amazon actually offers something more than a mere search engine. A search engine will only show me what I ask for, not related items. (unless someone builds a "meta-amazon" SE)
When company can't distingush itself in the eyes of consumers, no advertising will help
I repeat: The ads are there because they *work* Even the most brain dead diaper commercial is actually carefully manufactured to pay off.
Pepsi and Coke monitor the effects of their advertising closely. Believe me: *They* *actually* *work*
Of course Amazon might die. There is no telling which dotcom will make it and which won't. The internet boom has given them a chance to expand faster than otherwise possible, but that just affects the time scale, not the principle. In the end, good business models survive and bad ones disappear.
If a trusted source says "Stocks are overrated" the stocks fall. If a trusted source says "the dollar is insecure" the dollar falls. And if a trusted source says "The internet boom is over" then it is over.
Some dotcoms will survive, some will be eaten by those who do. I personally think that Amazon will be among the survivors if they play their cards right. "Books worldwide by web order" actually is a sound business idea. Once the boom is over they can cut down on advertising (since they already have a brand name) and live on sales rather than stock.
The company that sells 10*N books still has an avantage over the company that sells N books.
Companies spend money on advertising, not just to spend money, but to gain more customers and thereby gain the advantage of scale.
One of these days, you won't be able to raise cash simply by adding an e to your name. That day will be the day when the small dotcoms perish and the big ones grow even bigger.
My only hope is to have some help searching sources and filtering out the goodies. Papers have done this for ages. They find intresting stories and sell me a compilation (together with some added content of their own)
Book publishers do the same. There are many crap books out there. Who hasn't thought of writing a book some time? I don't have the time or money to read everything, just to catch some books that I like. Instead I trust the publishers to find the gems. I know very well that I miss some authors that noone dares to publish. So? There is no chance that I'll catch everything.
What does an online bookstore give me? The same as a normal one. A preselection of titles to save me some time. Maybe I'll find this King Novella and note somewhere in the back of my head that King is worth (or not worth) reading. I'll also note that the site that published it gave me a hint. Perhaps I'll return for more. Perhaps the writer and publisher gained my attention. Perhaps I'll trust that publisher to select titles for me in the future too. Then we both won something.
Oh but there is just one problem: Some of these dinosaurs *do* get it. They put the net into their old little toolbox of "old media", comersials, lawsuits, lobbying and what other means of influence they have.
Who do you think is more powerful:
A bunch of geeks equipped with their techical skill and the net
OR
A bunch of global companies equipped with their political and legal skill, tons of money, political connections AND the net?
This is such a bad tecnology that only the really clueless will buy it. Anyone tried editing the "server name" string? No problem. Oops I'm suddenly a different customer in 7val's eyes.
Session tracking is not evil by itself. Abused tracking is, of course, but this is such a clumsy method that it is not likely to spread.
Oh, officer arrest this man. His face is not covered!!
and:
f=Intolerance
I guess that they are censoring their own site too...
a) Dont get into trouble because of premature drinking.
b) Grow up to a person able to make his own wise decisions.
The same goes for porn. I dont want him to take sneak views of porn since I would punish him if I caught him. I want him to realize that porn is a relly perverted form of sexuality, and that by looking at a porn site he is supporting a really dirty business.
If I caught my teenage son watching porn I would not punish him. I would simply ask how he would feel if it was his sister or friend on that picture.
I really don't think that porn hurts the viewer much. (and the very young children accidentally exposed to porn will simply not understand what they are seeing) It *does* hurt the people involved though. *That* is why I'd like t block it. I dont want them to get any ad revenue from me. Period.
No
Stupid Linux users will laugh at you for using such a "stupid" language, and stupid Windows Delphi programmers will insult you for using such a "stupid" OS.
Users and programmers with any clue will use whats best for the job.
Those who discard a good tool as "Stupid" will soon have to learn that their new boss won't let them call customers "stupid" because they "don't want fries with that"
Hopefully Inprise will do to Delphi as they did to C++ Builder namely release the compiler, but charge for the RAD tools.
And closed source apps on an open source platform is far better than closed source apps on a closed source platform.
Sure, there are other languages better suited for different jobs. For an allrounder, though, Delphi rules.
Why? Combine a low lerarning threshold with decent power and you have a winner. Sure VB is easier, but you end up wanting more juice. Sure C++ is a lot more powerful, but debugging (esp other peoples code) is a nightmare. Sure perl is nice, up to 20 lines of code...
What Linux is lacking is RAD tools to quickly put a dummy-proof layer between the code and the user.
I've got some news for you: Accidents and diseases is not something that just happens to people who "don't run [their] life right"
Life is not fair. Noone can afford treatment for a serious condition without some form of insurance. I actually believe that the government is better suited to handle that insurance, since it is in their best interest to keep me well, voting for them and paying my taxes.
There seems to be a double standard here on /.
Everyone is 100% for their own privacy. At the same time it is claimed "If the information is accessible, it is OK to use it", "Information wants to be free" etc
The net (or the electronic society to use a Katz-ism) is making more and more information accessible and searchable. That includes info about YOU as well as about software specs.
The information is out there. And if we can lobby for laws to restrict it's use (in the name of privacy) so can the corporations (in the name of protection of property)
You might argue that personal info is different from other info and deserves special protection. I agree. However, as shown in the DeCSS case and others: If protection can be circumvented, it will.
If you are anonymous, you have no rights (since rights are given to people, not computer sessions) If you are logged in you will leave a trail.
On a more direct reply:
What the heck does a bouncing ball has to do with privacy? If someone knows that I went to an exibition, that tells them... That I went to the exibition. Nothing more. Is your idea of privacy the same as absolute non-interaction? Cause that is the alternative.
Databases as a threat to privacy is one thing, "ID spoofing" is another.
It does not matter if someone ruins my life by calling someone, saying "Hi I'm guran, shut down my account please" or "Hi I'm 123-456-789-0, shut down my account please"
Since when are usernames, or SS# alone an acceptable form of identification?
Why the heck does not more developers mix GUI and text?
*Store* everything in editable format (preferably XML style). Easily accessible for the admin. Throw a GUI shell over it. Make some labeled drop downs and checkboxen to explain the effect of the settings and to provide a non-expert way to fiddle with the file. Make damn sure that the connection between GUI and text is documented.
My favorite windows text editor (Kedit) is a good example of how to mix GUI and text. Every setting, keypress and menu command has a command line equivalent. My hands seldom leave the keyboard, since it is much faster for me to do a command line "c/foo/bar/all *" then to fire up a searh and replace dialog and type "foo" in one edit space, "bar" in another and check the appropriate options (every line, every instance on each line). However, a newbie would certainly use the menu.
Hey, has anyone defined a DTD for .ini-files? After that it would be rather easy to make a generalized .ini-file GUI.
(or has that been done allready?)
Won't do I'm afraid. To begin with it would make the phone book illegal. The same for e-mail lookup services. It would simply be to hard to get personal data for valid reasons.
OTOH it would be quite easy to go around such a law. So we can't sell our info to marketing companies? Well, then we will sell the marketing service itself. So we cant buy that information? Lets buy the company that has the information. (or if they are too big to be bought, let them split out a database branch, that can be sold).
I have no big problem with *correct* info about me used in the *intended* way. What I want is for it to be very dangerous for a company to use or sell incorrect data, or to use it against the terms I once agreed to. Thereby restricting database marketing to really profitable areas, not the "throw out a million hooks and something will catch" schemes.
Everyone is entitled to monitor any record about themselves
Then continue with principles like:
Every person or company who uses database records to contact you or in any other way influence your life is required to disclose (at their expence) the source of their information.
And
Every company or person that is providing data about a third paty on a comersial basis is responsible for the accuracy of that data
There should be no cause for the computer to second guess my intent; If there is an exception to the general rule, I should have stated that clearly in my code.
A good law should be written so that a judge, using nothing but the constitution and applicable law, can give intended ruling for every possible situation.
There should be no need for a judge (or jury) to second guess the "intent" or "spirit" of the law; If there is an exception, it should be clearly stated in the law.
Of course one must remember that laws deal with human beings instead of bits, but the likeness in criteria still stands.
And I hear that bad data gets sent to dev/null in Texas...
Registering YOUR name:
It is not MY name in the sense of MY exclusive property. If two companies or organisations would not be able to share the same name, we would have to use serial numbers instead.
Making money out of things YOU have done.
That is not the same thing. Copyright, trademark or patent infringement are allready criminal. There is no need for a law that says "Oh yeah, the same applies to the web"
Trading on YOUR brand, on YOUR image
Again a separete offence. In your Manchester United example: Writing/posting/shouting "Manchester United sucks" is no offence. (or every fan club would be criminal). Registering manchesterunited.co.uk is not neccessarily wrong. After all it was a page *about* united, even if it was not *by* them.
What *would* be wrong (and probably illegal) is to pretend that you are representing someone else. A slashdot.com site pretending to be slashdot.org would be wrong. So would a www.mikrosoft.com site selling similar software.
How would you like me to register www.slashdot.com and use it to vent my frustrations against everything /. stands for?
Why don't you post your frustrations as AC or after writing "This will certainly be moderated down but..." like the rest of us :-)