I never said that all of the blame should be on the producers. I said a lot of it can. And, the macronutrients you mention are not necessarily the most important, just the most referenced. There are tons of other nutrients that we have no idea about that are likely destroyed by processing. Scientists are still discovering them and likely will for many, many years.
I agree that most of the population should know how to read a label, but how many actually do? I've actually heard people say they don't know what foods are carbohydrates and what foods are proteins. After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I tried to explain it in as non-confusing terms as possible.
Perhaps I should have said that ignorance is the worst sin.
You and I actually do agree on most points, believe it or not.:) Your last statement is spot on, and something that people just don't understand. I see too many people eating simply for the tastes they've been conditioned for and refusing to eat the healthy stuff (they think it's "yucky," I guess), even when they're experiencing major health problems because of it. It's quite frustrating. Helping people fix their nutrition issues is as much psychological as it is physical.
I know a very intelligent, great guy who refuses to eat anything but fatty meats and processed carbs like mashed potatoes and pasta. This guy will not even look at vegetables, and drinks only orange juice, and wonders why he has major gastrointestinal problems. He just has no understanding of what he's doing to himself. However, he'll come around.:)
You're partially right. People *do* have a responsibility for what they eat. However, food producers are businesses, and that means making food as cheaply as possible and selling it for as much profit as possible.
Looking at the ingredients in much of today's foods, and understanding about what these ingredients do to the body, is a mighty task that most people are not inclined to do. Yeah, many people are lazy, but how much blame can we place on the manufacturers who strip out all the healthy parts of the foods (such as enzymes, fiber, and phytonutrients), inject artificial flavors and colors, replace natural sweeteners with high fructose corn syrup, etc etc, just to make foods cheaper? We can place a lot of blame there. We cannot expect every mom and dad buying their kids, and themselves, food to have PhDs in nutrition or to understand scientific studies. Food manufacturers must be held to task on the garbage they produce.
Most of the degenerative diseases in modern Western society, are caused not by bad eating and exercise habits but by the nutrition-less foods produced for our convenience.
There is a lot of blame to be spread around, but not all of it lies on the individual buying and eating that Twinkie or Krispy Kreme donut. The biggest problem is the ignorance people have regarding what it is they are actually buying. I honestly believe that if more people understood just how bad most food you get in the grocery stores really is, they'd stop buying it. I study nutrition and I constantly try to educate my friends and family on what I learn. Sometimes they listen to what I have to tell them and they see improvements in their health and weight, sometimes they don't listen at all.
Everyone owes it to themselves to take more initiative and learn about the ingredients in the foods they buy and not to blindly trust some corporation that more than likely doesn't give a rats ass about whether you get proper nutrition or not. All they care about is keeping their business profitable and making their shareholders happy.
You, sir or madam, are an asshat, if I may say so.
The US has a problem with teen drinking and all its associated problems not because some parents allow their children a sip, or cup, of wine or beer with dinner. These parents are actually the responsible ones! They know that their kids are going to be exposed to alcohol, and drugs, etc, at some point in their lives and they understand that teaching the kids that a little drink, every once in a while, is well, OK. You can take a stand against abuse, while engaging your children to be more responsible at the same time.
Drinking is so rampant because this nation has a history of trying to put such a clamp on it! Prohibition was an effort to make people give up the vice of drinking, so guess what, it just went underground and got worse. The more you tell someone, especially a rebellious teen, "you can't do that" the more they want to do it! If Americans didn't have knee-jerk reactions to every little thing "just to protect the kids" then I bet there wouldn't be so many problems with drug and alcohol abuse, kids having sex, teen pregnancy, etc. These kids do these things because they keep getting it rammed into their heads that it's wrong, and guess what kids do when they want to piss off their parents or to rebel against society and conformity?
You cannot say that any person, teen or not, who ever has a drink or smokes weed at any point in their lives will end up on the path of alcoholism or drug addiction. That is generalization and you know it. My parents allowed me to drink beer when I was a kid, probably starting at around 12 or 13 and guess what, I drink very rarely, don't do any drugs and don't smoke! Sure, I experimented with pot, hard liquor and all that, but it was just that, a short experiment that turned out more boring than anything else because I'd already experienced it. It wasn't anything special nor was it all that exciting. If my parents had been hardasses about me not doing it, then I can definitely say that I would have done more just to piss them off and perhaps fallen into the addiction trap.
You say that the person you replied to is reprehensible but it is in fact you, who are so jaded and willing to cast your soapbox-level disgust around with ease who are reprehensible. Your "patients" who are so sick with the illnesses caused by their vices were likely the people who had social mores rammed down their necks and they never had the breathing room to make up their own minds. They have no concept of "moderation" because they never learned what is OK. To many people, it's either all or nothing. You either don't do it at all, or there's no hope for you. You seem to be that kind of thinker. Sad, really.
Every one of my friends throughout high school and after who are heavy drinkers or drug addicts nearly to a one all came from families that took fanatic positions against it all. Now, that is not the case with all of them. Several were allowed to do whatever they want, and this is on the other end of the spectrum, as their parents didn't seem to really give a damn at all as long as the trouble didn't come home with the kids. Out of sight, out of mind.
I see it around me all the time, when parents try to teach their children to avoid all the "bad stuff" but without ever really teaching them why it's considered bad, it "just is." I see it with my nephews and nieces, the kids of coworkers, etc. The kids do all the "bad stuff" because they know it ticks off their mom and dad and all the cool kids do it.
The poster you replied to is actually more responsible than the parent who beats their children when they catch them with a beer, a pack of cigarettes, or porn. He (I think) is teaching his son that a little bit is OK and hopefully the kid will understand that a little *is* OK. You cannot shield kids from everything life has to offer, good or bad, or they grow up not having an understanding of themselves or the world around them. I could give plenty of examples, but I won't.
I bet this kid is gonna grow up just fine. And if not, then let's not forget that we still have responsibility for our own choices.
meh.
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I never said that all of the blame should be on the producers. I said a lot of it can. And, the macronutrients you mention are not necessarily the most important, just the most referenced. There are tons of other nutrients that we have no idea about that are likely destroyed by processing. Scientists are still discovering them and likely will for many, many years.
:) Your last statement is spot on, and something that people just don't understand. I see too many people eating simply for the tastes they've been conditioned for and refusing to eat the healthy stuff (they think it's "yucky," I guess), even when they're experiencing major health problems because of it. It's quite frustrating. Helping people fix their nutrition issues is as much psychological as it is physical.
:)
I agree that most of the population should know how to read a label, but how many actually do? I've actually heard people say they don't know what foods are carbohydrates and what foods are proteins. After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I tried to explain it in as non-confusing terms as possible.
Perhaps I should have said that ignorance is the worst sin.
You and I actually do agree on most points, believe it or not.
I know a very intelligent, great guy who refuses to eat anything but fatty meats and processed carbs like mashed potatoes and pasta. This guy will not even look at vegetables, and drinks only orange juice, and wonders why he has major gastrointestinal problems. He just has no understanding of what he's doing to himself. However, he'll come around.
You're partially right. People *do* have a responsibility for what they eat. However, food producers are businesses, and that means making food as cheaply as possible and selling it for as much profit as possible.
Looking at the ingredients in much of today's foods, and understanding about what these ingredients do to the body, is a mighty task that most people are not inclined to do. Yeah, many people are lazy, but how much blame can we place on the manufacturers who strip out all the healthy parts of the foods (such as enzymes, fiber, and phytonutrients), inject artificial flavors and colors, replace natural sweeteners with high fructose corn syrup, etc etc, just to make foods cheaper? We can place a lot of blame there. We cannot expect every mom and dad buying their kids, and themselves, food to have PhDs in nutrition or to understand scientific studies. Food manufacturers must be held to task on the garbage they produce.
Most of the degenerative diseases in modern Western society, are caused not by bad eating and exercise habits but by the nutrition-less foods produced for our convenience.
There is a lot of blame to be spread around, but not all of it lies on the individual buying and eating that Twinkie or Krispy Kreme donut. The biggest problem is the ignorance people have regarding what it is they are actually buying. I honestly believe that if more people understood just how bad most food you get in the grocery stores really is, they'd stop buying it. I study nutrition and I constantly try to educate my friends and family on what I learn. Sometimes they listen to what I have to tell them and they see improvements in their health and weight, sometimes they don't listen at all.
Everyone owes it to themselves to take more initiative and learn about the ingredients in the foods they buy and not to blindly trust some corporation that more than likely doesn't give a rats ass about whether you get proper nutrition or not. All they care about is keeping their business profitable and making their shareholders happy.
You, sir or madam, are an asshat, if I may say so. The US has a problem with teen drinking and all its associated problems not because some parents allow their children a sip, or cup, of wine or beer with dinner. These parents are actually the responsible ones! They know that their kids are going to be exposed to alcohol, and drugs, etc, at some point in their lives and they understand that teaching the kids that a little drink, every once in a while, is well, OK. You can take a stand against abuse, while engaging your children to be more responsible at the same time. Drinking is so rampant because this nation has a history of trying to put such a clamp on it! Prohibition was an effort to make people give up the vice of drinking, so guess what, it just went underground and got worse. The more you tell someone, especially a rebellious teen, "you can't do that" the more they want to do it! If Americans didn't have knee-jerk reactions to every little thing "just to protect the kids" then I bet there wouldn't be so many problems with drug and alcohol abuse, kids having sex, teen pregnancy, etc. These kids do these things because they keep getting it rammed into their heads that it's wrong, and guess what kids do when they want to piss off their parents or to rebel against society and conformity? You cannot say that any person, teen or not, who ever has a drink or smokes weed at any point in their lives will end up on the path of alcoholism or drug addiction. That is generalization and you know it. My parents allowed me to drink beer when I was a kid, probably starting at around 12 or 13 and guess what, I drink very rarely, don't do any drugs and don't smoke! Sure, I experimented with pot, hard liquor and all that, but it was just that, a short experiment that turned out more boring than anything else because I'd already experienced it. It wasn't anything special nor was it all that exciting. If my parents had been hardasses about me not doing it, then I can definitely say that I would have done more just to piss them off and perhaps fallen into the addiction trap. You say that the person you replied to is reprehensible but it is in fact you, who are so jaded and willing to cast your soapbox-level disgust around with ease who are reprehensible. Your "patients" who are so sick with the illnesses caused by their vices were likely the people who had social mores rammed down their necks and they never had the breathing room to make up their own minds. They have no concept of "moderation" because they never learned what is OK. To many people, it's either all or nothing. You either don't do it at all, or there's no hope for you. You seem to be that kind of thinker. Sad, really. Every one of my friends throughout high school and after who are heavy drinkers or drug addicts nearly to a one all came from families that took fanatic positions against it all. Now, that is not the case with all of them. Several were allowed to do whatever they want, and this is on the other end of the spectrum, as their parents didn't seem to really give a damn at all as long as the trouble didn't come home with the kids. Out of sight, out of mind. I see it around me all the time, when parents try to teach their children to avoid all the "bad stuff" but without ever really teaching them why it's considered bad, it "just is." I see it with my nephews and nieces, the kids of coworkers, etc. The kids do all the "bad stuff" because they know it ticks off their mom and dad and all the cool kids do it. The poster you replied to is actually more responsible than the parent who beats their children when they catch them with a beer, a pack of cigarettes, or porn. He (I think) is teaching his son that a little bit is OK and hopefully the kid will understand that a little *is* OK. You cannot shield kids from everything life has to offer, good or bad, or they grow up not having an understanding of themselves or the world around them. I could give plenty of examples, but I won't. I bet this kid is gonna grow up just fine. And if not, then let's not forget that we still have responsibility for our own choices. meh.
Project Entropia aka Entropian Universe: http://www.entropiauniverse.com/en/rich/5000.html Classless, skill-based system with a tie-in to real world economy.
Try looking at the Zero Tension Mouse: http://www.zerotensionmouse.com/ and perhaps exercises from ART: http://www.activerelease.com/