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Input Solutions for Repetitive Stress Victims?
simiproject asks: "I provide IT consulting for a 30-person organization. Recently, I have been trying to find an acceptable keyboard/mouse solution for a staff member who experiences sharp pains in her thumb, hand and arm when using her mouse. She had been using one of those 3M joystick mice and felt it only made her situation worse since it required even more extension of her thumb. Holding a pen or stylus won't work since that requires gripping. I switched her to a trackball mouse and that helped a little but not much. However, trying to find a solution that doesn't require using the thumb is like shopping in a bizarro world where we just didn't evolve with that opposing digit. I'd be interested in what practical input solutions Slashdot has for a computer user with limited hand mobility. Voice recognition? Laptop-like touch pads (I've looked but haven't found any)?"
Next question?
No Thumb Needed.
e /
http://www.zerosign.net/index.php/powerglove-mous
Same sorta thing came up with my supervisor...
Long story short....He had to relearn how he used his mouse to avoid problems.
It came to this because quite frankly no one designed something to suit his individual finger mobilty limit, mainly due to the fact that just about everyone in this situation is unique, each having their own limits, tonerances, and ability.
You never have to use your thumb. A number of Dell and IBM laptops have them. I will not buy a laptop that does not have Synaptics touchpad.
Rocket Your humble build servant.
I'm not certain at all that this would work, because I know nothing about her thumb or hand condition. It's basically held like a gun, with your index finger pulling the "trigger" (left click) and your thumb moving the trackball. I only suggest it because it is fairly different from most other setups in how you hold your hand, and so it might work for her. Worst case scenario you only spent about 11$, and then you can play with it yourself. Yes, I own one, and actually rather like it. Biggest drawback is you have set it down and take your finger out to type, but you quickly get used to it.
Finger Mouse
What works for me: I use a laptop and find the mouse pad less troublesome than a mouse. I also set the mouse pad to respond to single and double clicks so I and can move and tap with minimum effort.
This keyboard saved my wrists. It eliminates the twisting and straining to reach the back space and enter keys. http://www.typematrix.com/
Switch mousing hands, worked like a charm for me. While I'll never be as fast or accurate now that I'm a lefty, it's more than adequate for typical office software. I did have to give up the FPSes though.
She could go for the reflective dot on the forhead and webcam tracking software, but this was too geeky even for me. Check her Star Trek quotient before impelmenting.
There's voice recognition tools that are designed with that kind of disability in mind. The first I can think of would be Dragon: Naturally Speaking
Buy a cheap USB joystick and have it emulate a mouse using Joy2Mouse. It's quite similar to the buttons on some laptops, and is what I use at work. As for a keyboard, try one of those split keyboards, personally I like the Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000.
Hold the stylus between 2 fingers? Tape the stylus or pen to her finger? or glue it to a glove, rubber thimble or somthing? I'm sure there are ways to attach a stylus to her hand without a requirement for constantly holding it.
09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
I had a sore thumb and a sore wrist. The following worked for me: I got a big fat trackball, the Kensington Expert Mouse, and made it a left handed mouse for my right hand. That way I click with the side of my hand rather than with my thumb or fingers. Several years without hand pain have followed.
How did you not manage to find any laptop-like touch pads? Did it occur to you to go to this awesome new site, type in "touch pads", and click "I'm feeling lucky"? You would have gotten here.
I've had this sig for three days.
http://www.evoluent.com/
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details /US/EN,CRID=2150,CONTENTID=5006
If avoiding using the thumb is a requirement the Kensington Expert Mouse is a possibility. The top buttons could be used by the fingers instead of the thumb.
A friend of mine has an external touch-pad he uses on a small bench type CNC milling machine. So, they do exist, but where to get them I cannot advise...
The following idea may be a little weird, but have you thought of trying a clips a watcom stylus to her finger? That way she does not have to use her thumb to hold it.
Another idea is a touch screen.
How about having her see an ocupational therapist?
adesso
Just the first two found from a googling. Trackpad or touchscreen would seem the obvious solutions to me.cirque
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
Just buy a touch screen for her pc.
Better than a touchpad and for officework. almost better than a mouse.
Logitech makes a sort of trackball they call a "marble mouse". Perhaps it's the kind you've already tried, but I thought it was worth a mention. You can see some info from their site. The bottom line it that it's a trackball that you operate with your index (and/or middle) finger rather than your thumb (as is traditional). I still use my thumb to click buttons, but it's a lot less work. If that's an issue, you can probably configure the computer to reverse left and right clicks, which would make the action even less frequent. I found it a bit akward to use at first, but I got used to it pretty quickly.
"You call it a new way of thinking; I call it regression to ignorance!" -- Operation Ivy
I find most desktop keyboards are subpar and almost all laptop keyboards to be horrible.
;D
Here's what I use and as a sufferer of RSS, I highly recommend the Goldtouch keyboards
http://www.sforh.com/keyboards/split.html
I use one with my laptop and it is great. I have also had some luck with,
1) icing my wrists as there seems to be swelling,
2) having a chiropractor adjust the vertebrae between my shoulder blades as they tend to get screwed up by the leaning/hunching over as my RSS is in both hands and getting my wrist bones adjusted
3) using the split keyboard and an ergo mouse - original mouseman + (ball) which are hard to come by these days so I stocked up
Seriously. He should try putting the mouse on the floor and moving it around with his foot. Manipulating mouse buttons doesn't really require a lot of manual dexterity.
On the whole, though, this is a very tricky issue. A friend of mine has really bad repeat stress injury and there's no easy way to "fix" it. The way to get better is to cease doing the activity that messed you up to begin with. In this modern world it seems a little inconceivable that you'd go without using a computer -- perhaps for years -- but that might be what it takes. Lousy, but would he rather stay injured the rest of hia life?
Breakfast served all day!
I don't know why you had such a hard time finding one, I found one here and here. They are somewhat expensive, but you didn't state that price was a concern. Otherwise, most old laptop touchpads have PS2 interfaces, so if you're an elite hardware hacker (or play one on TV), you could do some kind of cool mod and post it on the internet. Good luck soldering ribbon cables, though.
There are mice out there that are wireless and have gyroscopes in them. You hold them in the air, and by turning them you move the mouse cursor. Something like that might be worth a try, though I really have no clue if it would help with RSI.
The TouchStream keyboard/trackpad combos look pretty sweet if you ask me; back when they were in production I thought I might get one. But they weree horrendiously expensive, and are even more so now because they aren't made anymore. Ebay has a couple, but not for under $400 with 6 bids and 3+ days to go.
"I'd be interested in what practical input solutions Slashdot has for a computer user with limited hand mobility. "
1-see doctor.
2-Get one of those squeezable balls and exercise with it on a daily basis.
3-use the other hand.
I used to work with a guy who had wrist problems, which isn't quite the same. But still, he swore by a Data Hand keyboard. I tried to use them, and well, way to weird for me. If set up properly one of the fingers will work as your mouse, so you don't need one separate. When used properly you can also type WAY fast.
I developed tendonitis in both hands two years ago, and there are a number of solutions I've found. The HeadmouseExtreme by Origin Instruments http://orin.com/access/headmouse/index.htm, the Tracker Pro by Madentec http://madentec.com/products/comaccess/tracker/abo ut-tpro.html, and the SmartNav by NaturalPoint http://naturalpoint.com/smartnav/products/at/at_ov erview.html are all head pointing devices that use near IR to track a reflective dot you stick on your head.
The first two cost around $1000, and the SmartNav costs between $200 and $400 but my favorite by far is the Headmouse Extreme. It and the Tracker Pro work on any machine just like a USB mouse, while the SmartNav doesn't work with Linux and requires special software.
I use a Kinesis Savant Elite triple-action footswitch http://orin.com/access/headmouse/index.htm to do my mouse clicking for me.
"Laptop-like touch pads (I've looked but haven't found any)?" Is it really that hard to type "USB touchpad" into a search engine? I came up with a long list of links, casually clicked on the first couple, and they had them.
Contact the GSA's CITA (http://www.gsa.gov/Portal/gsa/ep/contentView.do?c ontentId=9815&contentType=GSA_OVERVIEW) and let them know what issues you are having. They can probably tell you about some devices you haven't heard about before.
s e.html
http://www.utoronto.ca/atrc/reference/tech/altmou
http://web.mit.edu/atic/www/tools/mice.html
~Gildas (too lazy to log in)
I'm a lefty and I prefer to work my mouse with the left hand. But at school so many machines were set up with the mouse on the right and junk on the left (i.e. not easy to switch the mouse over) that I learned to be ambidextrous with the mouse. She should give it a try. Also, make sure all ergonomic stuff is OK, especially keyboard height. Her wrists should be straight and her elbows should be at 90 degrees or less.
--- Often in error; never in doubt!
Turned this up:
http://www.cirque.com/products/desktop_easy.htm
There are undoubtedly other make/model options, but this is a surefire way to not use one's thumb.
Also, depending on the type of work the user does with the computer, you may also be able to consider installation of a touch screen overlay for the monitor...
- SK
As somebody who went as far as learning how to type Dvorak to relieve RSI type problems (and now I type like a gimp on 99.9999% of the PCs on the planet), the highest impact reliever I got was switching my mousing hand. The re-training is very minimal - you shouldn't get too much resistance.
Man...victimized by a 3M joystick mouse. What is the IT world coming to?! :P
I have nothing to do with CarpalTunnelFix.com, except I follow this guy's exercise routines. They work for me, so I'm wondering if anyone has had success with following the recommendations on the carpal tunnel site?
A few years ago I had a similar problem (still recurs a little) and a colleague who had previously taken 6 months off work due to RSI suggested I try left hand mousing (Yes I am right handed normally). So, it was worth a try, because my arm used to be permanently numb, and yes, within about 30 mins of it feeling awkward, I was fine, and still am - I regularly swap mousing hands, especially for any drafting work (my log drawing work involved intense use of scroll wheel).
I found no need to do anything like swap buttons or anything like that, I just moved it over and carried on, slowly at first, then as I said, about 30 mins later, never looked back.
It may not be a cure all - but it certainly helped me, but I recomend you seek medical advice if you have any severe problems like this. (std. disclaimer)
I have several ideas for this, but none are cheap or easy For one, you could try getting a touchscreen. You could build a remote-tracking device, and teach her to point with the remote (similar to the Wii >.>) Have you looked into modifying something like a wacom tablet? I don't think it would be that hard to put the guts of the stylus into the finger of a glove or something...
Show this to your friends and family that don't know what a real hacker is
... you get her to start mousing left handed. This aint rocket surgery!
Buy a symmetrical 5-button mouse (like the excellent MS "Intellimouse Optical") and put it on the left side of her desk, with a cloth-topped neoprene mouse pad.
Sure, she'll bitch and moan. She'll say she can't do anything left-handed, but within a week she will be at 75%, and after a month she'll be at 95% of her right hand's abilities.
I had the same issue, and tried a bunch of different setups before finally admitting I simply had to give the right hand and arm a rest, and accepted that I would simply have to mouse left handed.
Most importantly, do NOT switch the mouse button functions around: it is far better to learn to mouse left-handed with a mouse which is set up for right handers! This may sound dumb - but of course, left handers do NOT switch their buttons around, because when they use someone elses PC, the buttons are "normal" - and if they were used to "lefty buttons" then they'd be right-clicking all the time.
So, the left-handed user should learn to Left Click with their middle finger, and right click with their index finger.
I particularly did not want to learn to mouse left handed as I have a destroyed left elbow with only about 5 degrees of rotation through the Radial Head. I resisted until my right hand would go into spasms for periods of 5 minutes or so. Finally I relented and taught myself left-hand mousing.
Hey, and guess what? It's actually bloody easy, and this from a guy who couldn't even kick a soccer ball with his left foot.
How many escape pods are there? "NONE,SIR!" You counted them? "TWICE, SIR!"
I'm not a Doctor, but don't humans have two fucking thumbs?
I mouse with my left hand whenever my right wrist doesn't feel right.
[insert masturbation joke here]
-Peter
http://www.naturalpoint.com/ cost $199 - $399
e =10&pid=174&dept=12 cost ???
http://www.cameramouse.com/ cost $299 - $429
http://web.mit.edu/atic/www/tools/mice.html $45 touchpad - $299
http://www.enablemart.com/productdetail.aspx?stor
They actually did make small touchpads that hooked up to the ps/2 port of a computer. I know because I had one for my IBM L40SX, which had no internal pointing device, being originally designed for DOS. They were designed to make people without touchpads on their laptops feel special, I think. Some companies still make them: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00008XPAR/103-76 63121-8304644?v=glance&n=172282
They also make models with integrated keyboards:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtool s/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1388856&Sku=A68-1016&SRCC ODE=PRICEGRABBER&CMP=OTC-PRICEGRABBER&ci_srccode=c ii_5784816&cpncode=08-10505924-2
Synaptics among others sell the laptop-style touchpads (seperate and w/ kb). With their software, you can configure it to tap, click and drag, right click area, etc. (never need to touch the mouse buttons). Some learning curve but better than pain.
If I understand the question correctly.
Switch hands. Don't like it? Tough. Beats having a repetitive stress injury.
Think about all you do in a day with your dominant hand.
My input device of choice is the Logitech Marble Mouse. You use your index and middle finger to move the trackball and thumb and ring finger to left/right click.
Only downside no real scroll function.
IMAGE VERIFICATION IS EVIL!
No one mentioned this yet, but how about touchsreens? Although the displays are typically not very good resolution, they are very intuitive to use and are adequite for most office tasks. You could just use your pointer finger to select things on the screen, thus you'd put zero stress on your thumb.
When I had a similar problem several years ago, I simply switched to using the mouse with my left hand to give the right a break. It worked.
High-tech gadgetry may help, but the human factors are key; for example, even the best ergonomic devices won't prevent damage if one's technique is poor.
The thumb is an odd place to have pain when using a mouse, which suggests that there's something happening here that replacing the mouse will not correct. Maybe ensure that the posture, workspace, and keyboard/mouse technique are ergonomically sound (well, as sound as such unnatural activity can be).
In my experience, once pain of this type has developed, it can be very difficult to conquer without dramatically reducing computer use for a period of months. But here are some things that have helped me:
- Use programs that don't require much mouse input. I'm a programmer, and I realize that this is often not an option in non-programming jobs. However, the real RSI killer is the mouse, not the keyboard. If the hands can be kept on the keyboard almost all of the time, the reduction in stress is dramatic.
Most non-geek users ignore keyboard shortcuts even in the programs they use heavily; maybe you could explore the shortcuts available to this user and recommend a heavier reliance on them.
- Wear wrist braces. I've found that preemptively wearing wrist braces when I know I'll be spending huge amounts of time typing and mousing makes a dramatic difference. I tend to slump in my chair and use the mouse at a stressful angle. A wrist brace makes that next to impossible; I must sit up straight in order to reach the mouse at all. Since this user's pain is already entrenched, wrist braces won't necessarily improve it, but might stabilize the intensity.
- Exercise the tendons and wrists. I've found that my wrists and hands are more resistant to pain if they're well-conditioned. My solution is to split large amounts of firewood with a maul (a very grip- and forearm-intensive activity), which I realize is not realistic for most people. But any exercise designed to improve the strength of one's grip helps.
I'm sorry I couldn't suggest any miraculous solutions, but it's a tough problem. In my experience, the best way to avoid this type of pain is to reduce computer use until the pain goes away, then wear wrist braces as the computer use increases to its former levels. For me, this practice has prevented signifciant pain from re-developing after my initially bouts with it, which were very serious.
There are several keyboards out there on the market that have a built-in laptop style trackpad and they're pretty cheap.
I've bought a few for small office server closet type situations in the past and they work fairly well.
Instead of looking in the mice section at Newegg/ajump/whoever, look in the keyboard section instead.
Cut off her thumb! No more problem.
I reserve the right to think for myself. Others' opinions are optional. Puppy on lap = typos...not illiteracy.
Keyboards with a built in trackpoint (the little eraser nub) are available from several companies, including IBM and Unicomp http://www.pckeyboard.com/
The only motion required from a normal home-row typing position is to move your right or left index finger over about 2cm, and the thumbs don't have to be moved, as they naturally rest on the left and right mouse buttons, respectively.
This is very low stress, and the keyboards tend to be good quality. I use this with my IBM laptop for usually upwards of 12 hours a day (IRCaholic), for many years, and have no hand problems.
Karma: \Kar"ma\, n. [Skr.] (Buddhism) One's acts considered as fixing one's lot in the future existence.
I have the same problem myself. After trying numerous things I've found that the Evoluent vertical Mouse 2 works, as the hand is at a completly different angle than a normal mouse, trackball or touchpad. I also use a Futuro RSI wrist strap which limits the movement in the wrist and forces me to keep it at the correct angle etc for the keyboard.
You know, back in the day when we didn't even have mice, we used to work with these things called command lines...
i had one usb keyboard/mouse set not too long ago... i cant recommend on how typing thumbless would be, but since it's only a problem in the thumb... the mouse was usb, but it was wireless. it could be used on a desktop like a normal ball-less mouse, but it had a button on the bottom that put you into a gyro mode where you could point. might work?
Also, don't forget that you can have several mice hooked up at once. In addition to the touchpad, I had a left mouse, a right handed mouse, and one of those stupid 3M mice all hooked up at once. I would just reach for whichever one caused the least amount of pain at the time.
End the end though, no gadget will fix the problem. When someone is in that situation, they seriously need to just spend some time away from the computer. You might not think you can afford to take a month off of work now, but the longer you put it off, the longer it will take to heal up. Eventually, if your wrists/hands take enough punishment, they might not ever heal.
Laptop-like touch pads (I've looked but haven't found any)?
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Well, first link under the google search "touchpad mouse" found this: http://www.askergoworks.com/shopdisplayproducts.a
The google ad supplied link was this: http://www.google.com/url?sa=L&ai=BQGSCbw63RKr6EJ
So you can see, just using the right search term comes up with several. I know I have owned one that looks exactly like the "Easy Cat II" (it may have been the original since I have had it since 1994).
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
Once I took a cheap trackball from Comp USA, got some foot pedals from an old dictation machine. I bought a stereo plug and jack from radio shack, and soldered the connections so the left pedal would close the left button circuit etc.
It worked very nicely.
The only problem was that I was in a very high static environment with very bad grounds. Static discharges would often crash my computer and had blown out three moutherboards over the years. One day I sat down and fried the trackball when my foot touched the pad and discharged. I do not think this would be an issue in a normal environment.
yeah, i'd say a touch pad, if you can find one where a tap on the pad is a click, and not just hitting the buttons (with her thumb). try surplus stores, touchpads seem to be older, (windows 95-ish) i had one, liked alot actually. or perhaps a smaller mouse that she could move with only her fingertips? keeping her thumb un-involved?
or perhaps one of those 'natural' keyboards with the touch pad built in?
i generally use a laptop when i compute (program, gemstone iv, p0rn) and i must say a touchpad is sweet. my worst problem is never the mouse, it's always the keyboard! if she is getting a lot of arm and/or wrist pain, chances are it's the way she is typing. try a very steep (or adjustable pitch) natural keyboard, or a frogpad. i work in an education lab and we have one for demo. it's strange. but yeah, try it.
I haven't used this myself, but the ErgoClick uses the palm for clicking, and thus should relieve a lot of stress from the thumb.
What's kept my RSI problems at bay for the last 13 years is the Kinesis Contoured Keyboard and a BodyBilt chair with linear tracking arms. I cannot recommend these highly enough. They have saved me from being in terrible agony every day.
The chair is rather expensive, but certainly much cheaper than either going on disability or a Vicodin addiction. The Kinesis keyboard takes a bit of getting used to, and all my friends who I have suggested it to, have initially cursed at me over the learning curve. But all of them have also later come back to me and thanked me profusely for saving them from a life of torment.
I know that some people also swear by the DataHand, but that requires a lot more relearning than even the Kinesis. I would have tried that next, however, if the Kinesis keyboard hadn't solved my woes.
|>oug
I switched to using a logitech marbleman trackball with my left hand. No more wrist pain.
While I can't provide a great solution (although I think if you can find a thimble-like mousing device, that would be perfect), have you considered giving her hands a bit of a 'spa treatment'? I think the extra boost provided by a little pampering could go a long way, if not in helping her joints, then in boosting her confidence (and possibly providing some less troublesome skin/nail issues - Every typist insists on a particular nail length, and the right length does make a difference).
Paraffin(sp?) wax applied to sore joints should give her a boost (and there are even home versions of these treatments so she can self-medicate herself), along with general massaging techniques. An additional measure you may want to try is to 'train' her wrists into an appropriate position by using a stuffed animal (preferably a beanie baby or similiar creature, due to their pliability) under her hands to encourage a more approved ergonomic position and keep her wrists above the desk, as well as providing comfort.
There's the rollermouse, among other solutions. A bit on the expensive side at $200, but you see it quite often in administration offices and health care centers here in Sweden, so I suppose it must be good. Of course it's swedish, so that must have had an effect on its ubiquity here.
Simple question - Is she holding the mouse properly? (Don't take this as a condesending question - no one ever teaches people how to hold/use a mouse and ergonomics is very important - humans just aren't naturally designed to sit in chairs all day long). Pain such as this can often be caused by having the arm at the wrong angle causing the wrist to be twisted at an odd angle for long hours.
Instead of just looking at the mouse, I'd suggest looking at her complete desk/chair/keyboard setup. Starting at the bottom and working your way up.
Chair
Her chair should be such that her feet comfortably touch the ground when the knees are bent at about 90 (ie. not dangling and not cramped backwards/stretched forward) and her back is straight and comfortably supported. This should then put her elbows at about level of the desk surface.
Desk
Get her to place her hands on the keyboard with her shoulders relaxed and her forearms should be able to rest along the desk surface (alot of people have their keyboard too close cramping up their shoulders and causing the elbows to stick out and wrists to be twisted... move the keyboard back towards the monitor until its at a good comfortable length). Do the same for the mouse and get her to hold it.
Mouse
Since her arm is now relaxed and stretched out, the base of the mouse should rest under the palm of the hand, with the base of the palm resting on the mousepad, so the fingers naturally stretch forward over the buttons. Alot of people hold mice incorrectly from above and then move it with their wrist. The wrist shouldn't actually move much (it wiggles a bit) but most of the movement actually coming from small movements of the elbow/shoulder (which translate to larger movements of the forearm which transfer through the base of the palm to the mouse - basically her watch should move in sync with the mouse and not sit still).
Once all this is done and correct then you can check if the mouse if comfortable or not (I had one mouse which was too tall (meant for a bigger hand or just bad design) and I noticed the effect after a week as my wrist was tilted back just a fraction too much).
There is actually very little in most Windows applications that you cannot do with keyboard shortcuts. Once people learn them, not only is it much better for their health, but it is actually much faster. Why click on the "Save" icon when you can just press ctrl+s? Combine the use of leyboard shortcuts with the IBM usb keyboard model 31P8950 with "Ultra Nav", which has a touch pad and a pointing stick - use whichever feels better. You should be able to reduce the pointing activity by at least 75%, which, combined with the better pointing device, should help quite a bit.
http://www.contourdesign.com/rollermouse/rollermou se_use.htm
We have several people in my office with such complaints, and they all love the above device. Although the pictures show it being used with the thumb, it can be used with any finger.
works for me. I only use the middle finger for it. I believe you can get a similar pad that will plug into your desktop. then the only problem will be using the thumb on the space bar. (Repetetive stress injuries can heal. It just takes time. Lots of time.)
As someone who experienced RSS while performing mind-numbing work on a large mapping project, I can relate. What I determined is that the wrist pain was actually "referred" pain from nerve pinching in the cervical vertebrae. In other words, the job was a pain in the neck, and the pain showed up in the wrist. I did several things and eliminated the problem over about three weeks. - I got Network Chiropracty treatments once a week to release and realign the spine top to bottom. - I got therapeutic massage once a week to loosen the muscle and fascia in the neck and shoulders. - I practiced simple yoga in the morning to develop some attention to my body posture during the day. I did muscle training to balance the msucle strength in the arm. - I tried several different mice and settled on swapping back and forth between the Intellipoint and a roller ball (slower but different movements). - I slowed up my completion rates while repairing the tissue and nerves. I stopped pushing to match the ridiculous pace the company was looking for- because trying to match was damaging. I stopped worrying about things. That change of pace netted me a Deficient score in the most idiotic employee performance review I've ever been through. With all of that, I left the job recovered and well, and have not had an RSS recurrence since.
I know someone said something about an intellimouse, which are pretty good (I can't stand the scroll-wheel though), but what about all the higher-end Logitech mice (mx500 and up, I have an mx700). Using a laptop mouse, or even a normal mouse for a full day, my hand will start to hurt, but with the Logitech mice, my hand is basically in it's natural resting/cupped position. Almost all the movement is done with the wrist and your thumb is basically dead resting in the grooved side.
For me, changing how I moved the mouse was a consderable help. I'll elaborate...
My desk at home is rather high, so I had to get a higher chair to pull this off. I found it to be more natural, but only after getting one of those spiffy Loogie-tek MX1000 LAZAR RF mice. One has to move the mouse from the shoulder, or the elbow, not the wrist or forearm. My constant use of this little prick (mouse) led me to handling the mouse closer to my left forearm (if my left hand were to rest on the keyboard, my right hand and mouse would be found perpendicular to my left arm, parallel to my chest). This allowed movement almost completely from the shoulder and elbow. My wrist, thumb, and first two fingers felt relief almost instantly.
Can't say World of Warcraft never helped me. Having a good quality, comfortable mouse helped, too.
Informatus Technologicus
I am often working at a stand-up workstation where the keyboard hight is acceptable, but the mousing surface is not, even though both surfaces are the same height. This does cause severe wrist/thumb pain when I cannot avoid the rodent, usually due to web-based apps. I have learned that elevating the mousing surface helped, but positioning the mousing surface on an incline is better. In my case the incline is away from me, but it could be in any direction. The only downside is that the mouse ends up settling to the lowest point. Since I am unable to set up a permanent arrangement, nor do I need one, I attach a mousepad to a clipboard and place this on a stack of store catalogues.
My wife has a similar issue at her home workstation. She requires a slight slope towards her body, and also uses a similar trick of a book and clipboard. I plan to build an adjustable device out of some masonite(pressboard) but have not had time to do woodworking type stuff....basement flooding keeps all other problems and pleasures at bay.
Phil
Laugh, it's good for you!
In both this article and the one about standing vs. sitting at work, I see endless well-intentioned posts from people saying, "this is how you fix your problem." Almost always, it means (and often actually says) "this is how I fixed my problem, so you should do it to."
Bottom line here folks is that what works for you might not work for me. Your ideal mouse isn't mine. Your wrist problems might in fact be caused by the same thing as my back problems and buddy's thumb problems, with the only difference being in how we've adapted to a flawed situation. Alternatively, what caused your thumb problem (and hence what fixed it) might not be even remotely related to what caused my nearly-identical thumb problem, and so the same fix might not work.
The best advice you can get is to start with a standard configuration, identify the problem, and then explore as many potential fixes until you find the one that works. This is not an exact science! There are no single, deterministic solutions to each problem!
So in short, consider every solution offered with a grain of salt--but do consider it.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3485918.stm
The bits on the bus go on and off... on and off... on and off...
I use an Evolution (discontinued) from Kinesis. The trackpad on the keyboard is useful. That and a Wacom on my lap is particulary nice, and while the pen does require some gripping, not much...
Then, learn *nix where more time is spent on the keyboard. The biggest cause of my RSI is the mouse, and CLI solves much of the problem.
Finally, whatever system you use, you have to use it correctly... Posture, breaks, etc.
Space and Computers.
When a doctor diagnoses RSI, they will tell you to "stop doing what you are doing". That is the only way to relieve the problem.
For your "patient" this means that they need to stop mousing with the right hand. The solution is that they need to learn to mouse with the left hand. Once they have "trained" themselves with the left hand (it doesn't take long, from personal experience I can tell you that I was reasonably proficient after a week or two of persisting at this), they will find that they can use this "ambi-mousetris" technique to switch the mouse back and forth and "load share" the mouse between two arms, which has quite a benefit.
Myself for instance, mouse on the right at home, and on the left at work. Seems to (mostly) do the trick, except for extreme situations where I am doing a lot of work. When my RSI flares up I will then use a cold compress on the inflamed tendons and a combination of stretching exercises recommended to me by a phisiotherapist.
f u cn rd ths, u r prbbly a lsy spllr.
Except the 5-button part. Generally they put those extra buttons on the side, which puts some limitation on the way you can cradle the mouse and move it without accidentally brushing one of those damn side-buttons. The extra buttons don't really serve any useful purpose anyway (unless you're gaming, but if you've got a stress injury, it's probably a good idea to find something else to do with your leisure time for a while).
Better to get just the basic Microsoft or Logitech optical wheel mouse. (something like this one) The contoured ones feel great in the store, but your real usage is at a different angle and the contours force into a particular way of holding it. I suggest optical because you can use it directly on the desk, eliminating the high-traction neoprene mouse pad and the inertia of the mouse ball will reduce the force needed for operation. Also you can easily switch between left-handed and right-handed operation without moving a bunch of needless auxiliary gear. On that note, a radio-mouse might be nice, if you can find one without all the bells and whistles.
If you haven't been switching mouse operation from hand to hand periodically, you probably should from time to time. Anyone can learn to mouse ambidextrously. It probably wouldn't hurt to learn keyboard shortcuts for things so you don't need the mouse as much. Whatever you do to vary your usage will cut down on the repetative part of repetetive stress.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
I have been using touch pads like this for yearsa tegory_slc.asp?CatId=1919&Nav=|c:143|&Sort=3&Recs= 10
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/category/c
THey are great and require as much effort as a laptop touchpad, almost none
Unfortunately, you really have to limit use drastically. There is no single magic bullet. That said, this helped me a lot:
Evolient Mouse
Use the other hand.
I reserve the write to mangle english.
Buy her a powerball.
http://www.powerballs.com/
It's a fantastic device that really helps with RSI.
As at least one person above has suggested, switch hands with the mouse. I have extremely nasty problems with my entire left arm (arthritis in shoulder, elbow, and wrist, a very nasty pinched nerve situation in the elbow, along with some soft tissue damage, and of course carpal tunnel in the wrist... I shudder to think what kind of issues I'll have at retirement, since I'm only 24 now...), and was a long-time left-handed mouse user, though I'm actually right-handed. The two biggest things I've done to help out were to switch to using the mouse with the right hand (it only took about a week and a half to get beyond the initial switching problems), and switched to the dvorak keyboard layout (although I have no way to know if there's really a difference from the layout itself, or the fact that I learned it in a way specifically intended to keep my left arm completely stationary while I type).
The idea is to relearn everything you do with the computer with the goal of protecting that injury. If you can do so in a way that protects the other wrist as well (my right arm is almost stationary when I type now as well) so much the better. Once the worst of the issues clears up (if it does) with the original mouse hand, try switching back and forth regularly... when I can, I try to use my left hand for the mouse one day a week to give the right arm a bit of a rest from that so it has less of a tendency to develop problems (two years of full time computer work on that theory and not a single problem yet).
My wife has the exact same problems -- she can spend about three hours a day on a notebook keyboard and touchpad, but cannot go for more than about 30 minutes on a regular keyboard and mouse.
All three of these products have a touchpad controller, and has notebook style keys.
It seems for people with pains in their arms/wrists, a full-stroke regular keyboard may be painful to type on.
Sony VAIO keyboard
IBM Keyboard with UltraNav
Adesso keyboard
Since use of the thumb is a big issue, I'd suggest showing her a built-in usability function that comes with windows, MouseKeys. When turned on it converts the number keys into mouse function keys (movement, single click, double click, drag, drop, etc). Now normally this is used to avoid all use of the mouse, but can be a little slow moving the cursor around. In your case thought it would allow moving the mouse with the right hand and using the left hand to do the clicking/dragging. Personally I use it a lot just because using the keyboard keys is a lot less stressful than clicking the mouse keys because you don't have to grip in order to push the buttons and there's less strain, especially when you have a lot of repeated clicking in a short period. There's of course a period of adjustment before it becomes second nature to use Mousekeys but it's a no cost, effective solution. And you can toggle it on and off just using the NUM Lock key so you still have access to the number pad for number entry.
p /mousekeys.aspx
i ning/windows95/mouse.html
Here is a link to Microsofts description of how to turn them on:
http://www.microsoft.com/enable/training/windowsx
and a nice tutorial on what keys do what and tweaks:
http://www.disability.uiuc.edu/infotechaccess/tra
Track balls are rough on the thumb. I now have osteo-arthritus as a result of using a track ball for several years. Aside from having switched to split keyboards about 10 years ago due to CTS issues, I've now switched to game grade mouses. This is for two reasons. First, the mouses are 'lighter'; i.e. less drag. Secondarily due to the increased sensitivity I can move from one side of a dual mon display (2360x1024 aggregate resolution) to the opposite side in 1.5" of side motion. There is very little stress on the thumb or the wrist even when actually gaming.
It's repetitive stress so stop the repetitive part!
For this user at least: I found using any one device all day led to problems. By using different keyboards and pointers over the course of the day; the pain mostly stays away. I don't even use ergonomic keyboards; just decent ones with different sizes and touch. Mice I use good ergonomic ones but with varied shapes and sometimes a trackpad.
To get to the pain to go away in the first place I had to use the computer a lot less for a few months but it seemed a small price to pay.
The OOS literature is all about physical therapy and workarounds, but I believe OOS to be best treated by treating the stress in the workplace.
Get her a boss that recognises her contribution and/or a job that is interesting and satisfying. The mouse-use problem will fade.
I don't know what trackball you tried, I use a logitechtrackman wheel, and it really is less stress than others. bc it has a much friendlier shape, and uses the thumb, and leaves the 3 fingers for the scroll and the buttons ...
...
:( )or whereever your country's physiologists reside)
just a suggestion
if not that, send her to the gym to see a professional
1) use the other hand
./, here's mine: think CTS. 1) look at her chair height and wrist position (chair high enough, wrist straight and not leaning on an edge. mouse in natural work position not elevated, lowered or off in the next cube); 2) is she gripping the mouse or lightly framing it (if you grab the cord there should be play in the mouse). Is she using a gel rest, or a wrist guard? Is she otherwise fit and healthy? Has she seen a doctor?
2) book some quality time with an Occupational Therapist.
I favour the latter. I believe that this person is going to continue to have these problems no matter what pointer she uses until the actual problem (which IMO has nothing to do with using a mouse per se) is fixed. An OT can look at the way she positions her wrist, arm and shoulder as well as checking many other variables. The thumb is the kicker. When I use a mouse my thumb rests lightly against the side of the mouse and only moves a few millimeters with respect to my palm. I could easily use my mouse with my thumb in a cast or with no thumb at all if I taped a pencil to my wrist.
Most alternatives will increase the stress on the wrist, thumb or shoulder. Touch pad: thumb and shoulder; Thumb ball: thumb; Pen: wrist and shoulder etc.
Since you are asking medical advice on
But what kind?
I can imagine why a thumb-based trackball solution would make her situation worse.
The best trackball I've used is the MS Trackball Explorer. It's just one of the best.
That trackball uses a ball that's about 2 1/2" in diameter under the index and middle fingers, and has two buttons on the right side for your ring finger and pinky, along with a 2 button + scroll wheel combo on the left side. Sure, the thumb is now responsible for the left click, but with the MS software you can swap those assignments around, and she could just let her thumb rest 90% of the time.
Also, I would suggest observing her setup, you want to make sure her keyboard/mouse aren't 3 miles apart, the closer the better, and that she's not in a bad wrist position.
When I started getting pains from using a keyboard too much, I bought a MS Natural Ergonomic Pro 4000 keyboard, from Newegg. WHile a tad pricey, it was probably the best investment I've made. I like it so much I take it with me to the campus computer labs. As simple as that.
Also, you can find lots of ergonomic guides on the web to see how to improve that employee's situation. Sometimes the hardware isn't at fault, simply the posture the user puts him/herself in.
---- I am certain of only one thing : I know nothing else.
(I have no affiliation with the company that makes/sells it)
...how about Touch Screen.
Wincopy
but it got me thinking... has anyone tried using a Theremin as pointer control?
While I doubt it would be all that useful, it would definately be cool.
-Qyiet
I know Microsoft is a bad word but I use a Microsoft Trackball Explorer. I liked the original one more, but the new one isn't bad. I've had arm/wrist problems for years because of the mouse. The only thing that's worked is a trackball where I can use my fingers to move the ball and my thumb only pushes buttons. This trackball never makes my wrists hurt, though typing too much still will. I also use a Microsoft split keyboard, the "normal" keyboards make my arms almost completely useless after a few hours.
Hairy palm make switching easy
I was just coming here to suggest the same thing.
I switched my mousing to my left hand a few weeks ago, and it was quite simple (much simpler than, say, switching the keyboard to dvorak, which I'm also doing). You get used to it quickly, and gain insight into the difficulties computer newbies face. Frustrated that your mom can't seem to even use the mouse? Use your mouse left-handed for a while. THAT is what it's like to be learning it for the first time.
As for FPS, don't give up on them. ^_^ What better way to train your left hand to control the mouse? Sure, you're not going to be taking anyone down in a deathmatch for a while, but you'll be able to fend off the lesser bots in a surprisingly short time. Giving up WASD is tough, though; IJKL just doesn't feel the same.
Don't put advice in your sig.
You've been victimized by the keyboard?
Give me a break.
I suppose you're probably going to sue Dell, huh?
Everyone's a victim these days, it seems.
I would recommend the person to try some of the solutions from Naturalpoint. I'm using the TrackIR myself in flight simulators to control the view, but the product was originally designed as a mouse replacement. It works very well and completely eliminates the need to use the hands to control the pointer.
How is she holding the mouse? I know I use my thumb when holding a normal mouse, but I certainly don't have to. I can curl my thumb right up into my palm and still use the mouse quite effectively.
I don't mean to be rude at all, but I've found 99.9% of such pains to be from people holding the mouse, or typing, in strange positions. Maybe her desk is at the wrong height, mouse too far away from her. There's quite a few things I can think of right off the top of my head.
I know people around my work complain of neck pain on occasion. I come around and they all have their monitors pointed at the desk. I ask them why that is, and they alway tell me the same thing "never thought about that".
Still the trackball or touchpad seems to be the more obvious answer for people who have pains in their thumbs.
FreeBSD.org - The power to serve
Had shooting pains up & down my right forearm, triggered by excessive use of the trackpoint on an IBM Thinkpad 600E.
/. comments too.)
"No Problem," I thought, "I have two index fingers. I'll just switch to using my left hand to operate the pointing device."
Before long, I had shooting pains up & down my left forearm too. Brilliant.
(modern osteopathic technique is the greatest. Pay special attention to the page on vision. See this tree of my
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
www.teslabox.com
Use your feet to click your mouse.
Seriously. Get a Smart Joy adapter and a Reload Pedal, and remap the joystick input to mouse click... though you may have to unscrew the top and cut the spring in half for easier clicking, like I did. Alternatively, get a mouse with very large buttons, remove the trackball / tape over the sensor, and leave it on the floor as a secondary mouse. Both sets of clicks will register.
The key to RSI, is to not find one "optimal" solution. Switch keyboards and mice throughout the day. Change your position completely. Walk over and talk to someone about a spec they had written. Put your feet up. Take your feet down. Really, the reason we get RSI is because we do one thing repeatedly. No matter how ergonomic that one sitting position or wrist angle may be, if you stay fixed in that position eventually your ligaments and joints will break down. Change position, take coffee breaks, mouse lefty for a little, turn your body to the side... anything to keep from falling into the trap of the one perfect body position.
The ______ Agenda
My problem was solved by setting the numeric keypad (using Windows 2000) to control the mouse. I use the mouse (with my left hand) to move the pointer, but when I need to click, I press the "5" button on the numeric keypad with my right index finger. Separating the two actions like this has made my problem go away.
t m
This site is great:
http://labmice.techtarget.com/articles/keyboard.h
My wife tried a different approach which works great for her: She wired up 3 microswitches, attached to a 2x4, such that the wires are "dot-or'd" directly into the wiring of an ordinary mouse. It's a heck of a lot cheaper than a footpad. But it's really the same fundamental solution (separating the clicking motion from the hand that's moving the mouse).
... which is effective for me, but I expect the reader's mileage to vary according to his or her specific circumstances.
I bought one of those mouse mats with a translucent gel wrist support. I found my trusty scissors and cut off the unnecessary mat part (i.e. the flat section that the rodent scurries about on when it is not collecting dust and crap) and threw it in the bin, leaving just the wrist support itself, which I use in combination with a very compact Microsoft Notebook Optical Mouse. Works for me...
Most people I know with limited use of their hands prefer this Kensington trackball. Some other solutions/sources here.
My temporary mousing solution for when I injured a few of my fingers was to turn the mouse backwards. Then you can just rest the palm of your hand on the top of the mouse without gripping at all, and you click by gently twisting your arm to the right. The only downside is that you have to get used to the cursor moving the opposite way to normal.
I was an RSI sufferer. As well as following all the usual doctor's advice, I did a little experimentation to come up with a comfortable trackball, and discovered that the angle - and thus height - of the trackball could easily be adjusted with large styrofoam wedges taped underneath it.
:v)
The idea (assuming a right-hander) is to raise the left-hand edge of the thumb trackball until the top of the ball is about 80mm or 3 inches above the desk. The exact height depends on the size of the user's hand, but the general idea is to have the hand as vertical as is comfortable. Experiment with duct tape until things are in the right position, then build a more sturdy and aesthetic solution to suit.
I attached the whole assemblage to a mouse pad with a gel wrist rest, which helps hold the whole thing in position and stops it all toppling over as well as making the wrist comfy.
Operation of the buttons and scroll wheel is very easy, even with the trackball tilted at this angle. Do allow enough access to the underside if our trackball design requires you to poke the ball out from underneath for cleaning!
Vik
Hoverstop.com might be worth a look. They sell a mouse that looks and operates normally except it vibrates gently after a period of inactivity. This is to remind the user to remove their hand from the device. The manufacturers claim that this reduces stress and helps people with RSI and similar problems. Hillos
I use this at work:
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/evolution.htm
This keyboard is split in half (completely) so each half may be mounted on a chair's arms. I recommend the model with a touchpad on both sides; this way I'm able to click with one hand while moving the pointer with the other. I can then alternate if I need some variation.
Adjusting to the keyboard was fairly easy; it would obviously be quite difficult for someone who doesn't touch type. Still, since I program daily (and hunting for keys is a bigger chore than with a standard keyboard) I have finally learned by touch the number and symbol positions and am better of for it. My only complaints are the touchpad buttons are unusually stiff and there is no third mouse button (quite handy in Linux).
Overall, it was a quick transition and my occurrences of arm/wrist pain have significantly decreased. Additionally, I found that my typing speed has increased by at least an estimated 50%. Very satisfied.
-IOVAR Web Dev Platform
Cirque cue cat worked for me.
Sorry, this is a bit stream-of-conciousness, but it's past my bedtime...
s /US/EN,CRID=2150,CONTENTID=5002y board
Here's the rub. There generally isn't a quick fix. I had a similar RSI problem. I was able to find relief with a combination of the following:
Goldtouch split keyboard (cheap on ebay, and you can still type on flat keyboards in a pinch)
http://www.goldtouch.com/
Logitech Thumb Trackball (you really don't move the thumb much with it)
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/detail
IMak Keyboard and Wrist Rests (I love their stuff)
http://www.imakproducts.com/
Under desk keyboard and mouse tray (generic off ebay)
IMak Pil-o-splint
helps you relax your hands when you sleep, often people clench their hands while the sleep
And last, I learned dvorak
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_Simplified_Ke
Posture is also VERY important. If you slouch when you type, nothing will help.
The most important thing though was the rest my hands received by forcing myself to learn Dvorak and thus type at 5 words per minute instead of my former blazing speed.
Unfortunately, computer related injuries form over time from repeated stress. The general rule is healing time takes as long as it took to injure yourself.
Good luck.
Oh yeah, I'm not a doc, so this isn't medical advice. Go see a doc. IMHO, it's a bad idea to get surgery for this though.
A while ago I was suffering sharp pains in my wrist, which started going to my thumb. What I did was use a small hand towel rolled up(I'm cheap) and rested my wrist on it. Also I have a chair with arm support, so I raise the arm + chair very slightly over the level the mousepad is and am able to comfortably rest my elbow on the arm, drastically minimizing the pressure on my wrist. I didn't even have to cut down on FPSes, but I probably could have healed it up faster if I hadn't kept playing so much(it took 3-4 months). The main problem, as I see it, is that your wrist is under alot of pressure, epsecially if your mousepad is close to the edge of whatever you have it on. Also I found that running some hot water on my wrist for 2 minutes every once in awhile provided some good, immediate relief (IANADoctor). I think that a wristpad + elbow support would help most ppl, but YMMV.
15 minute break every 2 hours for stretching and moving around. Therapist usually have some workout program that can be done at work. A massage if possible once a week is also doing wonders here at my workplace.
Emphasize keyboard shortcuts. It's a transition for the user but staying off the mouse can help a lot. This is really the number one solution.
Mouse preference is very user specific. You may have to try several items before finding something that works.
The key to using touchpads or trackballs in this circumstance is that the driver should provide a "click and hold" button. This allows the user to do a drag and drop without actually keeping the button depressed which can be quite hard on the thumb.
Some alternative mice that may work include:
http://www.contourdesign.com/rollermouse
http://www.aerobicmouse.com/
The 3M Mouse helps a lot with wrist position but the default configuration is in fact very hard on the thumb. The driver that comes with it does not allow you to reprogram the buttons. However, if you can find an older MS Intellimouse driver it will allow you to reprogram the buttons if you plug the mouse into a PS/2 port. You then configure the 3M Mouse like this:
Scroll Button (3) -> Button 1Button 1 -> Button 2
Button 2 -> Button 3
This gives you "squeeze to click" which is much easier on the thumb. Instruct the user not to use Button 2 (the one on the right hand side on top of the mouse). This requires you to roll the thumb outward which is a very bad motion (thumbs were made for grasping).
I saw this http://www.sforh.com/pointing/headmouse-extreme.ht ml demonstrated when I was at UVa just as it was about to go commercial. Probably better for severely diabled but very, very slick. They even had the test subject "typing" by looking at the keys on a virtual keyboard.
Maybe a litle pricey, but if I can just master sleeping with my eyes open I might have to pick one of these up for the office...
This sig intentionally left blank.
I explicitly use sexual references in this post so you don't get hung up on the double entendres...
It's _repetitive_ strain. It's soft tissue injury caused by using your wrists too much. Without changing the mouse/keyboard I have (I've tried many different types - rollerball, pen, touch pad, etc. ) I found it comes down to rest and little more.
You must have breaks, and you must consciously relax your wrists.
Also remember that your time on computer at home hurts you too; so does _any_ other wrist related activity like foosball, making lemon juice, using a screwdriver, choking the monkey, doing circle-work on the bottom paddock, etc.
Wearing wrist guards to bed is a good idea if you sleep in strange positions, too. I tend to wake up on my bent wrists a lot.
http://pcblues.com - Digits and Wood
I visited a doctor years ago regarding the same problem - except the pain would sometimes extend up my arm to the elbow. Bad news. It effected fly fishing and would sometimes hurt making a left hand turn in the car. Sometimes a hard cover book would be too much weight for my hand.
I started alternating devices and heights of the device. The following has kept me doctor and pain free for six years now:
This sounds like a pain but it's not. When I notice pain - after about six months now (was originally just a week per configuration) - I switch.
The solution here is using different muscles and tendons. By alternating input device and hand - as well as forearm - position the stress is from repetetive motion is better distributed.
Your friend's mileage may differ but this. You should also encourage her to use keyboard shortcuts as much as possible. Consider the repetition saved if she uses CTRL-S, CTRL-O and CTRL-W instead of the mouse. Combining keyboard shortcut use with alternative input devices and positioning could be a simple mechanical solution that's also inexpensive and something she can take charge of.
The Luddites were ahead of their time.
Tis certainly part of the problem.
If a physical therapist can recommend and watch over some other forms of excercise, you can start to balance out and strengthen other muscles and possibly attentuate or eliminate the problems. It did work for me, though I realize if it gets bad enough that it is difficult to get over.
Most people have horrible posture when typing, resting their arms on corners, extending their hands far out to the right (past the vestigal number pad) to mouse, keeping their head at an awkward angle that distorts their spine's natural curves..
First off, she should listen to her body. If something hurts, stop doing it. This is the fair warning that her body is giving her. She can take breaks-- walk once around the building, refill her water glass, stretch in place, shake her hands. Use a timer in Outlook that goes off every twenty minutes at first until the symptoms show continued improvement.
Second, she should avoid Repetive Motions as much as possible. Break the habit. Mix things up frequently.
* Switch mousing hands regularly.
* Always rest hands in the lap.
* Adjust or fix the lighting. (reduces muscle tension and eye strain)
* Adjust the monitor height.
* Switch out the effing keyboard for something without an attached number pad.
* Get a keyboard that is the right size for her body frame.
* Attach multiple mice to her system for instant switching.
* Get an adjustable keyboard tray.
* Learn and use keyboard shortcuts.
* Change positions several times a day.
* Get an adjustable monitor stand. (and replace the monster CRT with an LCD)
* Automate her crap work.
Touchpad mice let her use her thumb, pinky, palm, even her knuckles if her hand is being too sensitive. It's easy enough to attach both a touchpad and a normal (but ergonomic) mouse to the system so that she can switch between them according to the action/gesture and what her hand is feeling that moment.
I'm pissed that I missed the boat on the Touchstream keyboard/mice/touchpads, but the TypeMatrix keyboards are a great second-place winner. The keyboards come in a small and large size, with the small one suitable for most people. They also fit correct posture more naturally, by getting rid of the oh-so-stupid staggered key layout, and by separating the left and right sizes a little, and adding extra enter/backspace keys in the center for good measure.
I got one for someone at our work with chronic pain, and she had no problem adjusting to the new layout in hours. Her condition has improved a lot, and she credits the keyboard and better lighting. (I tried to get her to use a touchpad mouse, but it completely ignored her touch.)
At my desk, I have the TypeMatrix keyboard, a regular mouse for precision-work, and a Cirque touchpad for normal mousing. (The touchpad is 9 years old, and still works great.) I put a large box on the side table so that I can also stand and use my personal laptop for the 40% of my work that is internet crap and web-development. When I'm web browsing (er, researching), I can actually kick back in my chair, and do everything just with the touchpad. Change positions!
(I have considered the Kenesis split keyboard but it was too big and pricey for me at the time. I call it a fine third choice.)
Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts.
I had problems with my right hand until I bought a Wacom tablet to replace it with. It feels much more natural.
I would give it a shot.
For the office-worker, rsi is all about _which_ muscles get used and for how long. You can give these people all sorts of new input tools but if they try to use the different tools _in_the_same_way_ they're not going to get much benefit. You can't put a new tool (like a trackball) in front of someone and expect that it will just suddenly use different of their muscles. Your 'user' doesn't know what to do to fix her problem, and she's likely going to try to do the same things with the same muscles as when she had a mouse (like holding the trackball with her finger-tips). And if she's having all this trouble with the mouse then she prolly wasn't ever shown how to properly use that device either!
There is a growing industry of "ergonomics consultants" and while I wish their knowledge was common-sense to everyone, it's not. These people can help a great deal. USE THEIR SERVICES. How your user sits at her desk is crucial - the height of her desk, the height of her keyboard, the angle of her upper arms when she's typing, the angle of her knees, the angle of her neck, etc, etc, etc. It's all connected. Does she spend a lot of time on the phone? Where does she place her feet? Does her chair provide good lower back support? etc etc etc.
From my twenty-years' experience in tech/user support & physical therapy, the two most crucial considerations are 1) her upper arms are nearly vertical, and 2) her toes touch the floor while her knees are bent 90 - 100 degrees. But your big breakthrough will come when you or a human-interface consultant shows/teaches/coerces/trains this person to use _different_ muscles while still accomplishing what she needs to do.
Another aproach to this problem is to use a software package like RSIguard that can do "auto-clicking". You just point to whatever, and it will click automatically when you pause. It sounds strange, and it takes some getting used to, but it really can aleviate the pain.
Try lowering (or raising) the table. It's important that the arms are in a relaxed position when using the mouse. Also, as someone already suggested, try switching hands.
I recently built a new work table back home. It is a few centimeters higher than a normal table and I immidiately got pains in my neck and shoulders. After adjusting my chair the pains have gone away.
> You've gotta sin to get saved.
A lady in our office uses something called a Nomus. It's developed by a Swedish company and is like a laptop track-pad, but with endstops for left and right that continue to move the cursor. It has buttons for left and right handed use and doesn't require any settings to be changed to change hands.
I hate it, but she loves it and says it relieves her neck, arm and hand pains.
I know you've said that a stylus is too much gripping, but how bad is her condition really? Can she hold a normal pen, and write with it? If so, you'll find that the stylus solution really is quite good. As an absolute positioning system for a mouse, you'll find that it can save a lot of arm movement in getting to what you want, and this translates directly to lessened pain. This is what my partner now uses exclusively rather than normal mouses. Voice recognition is a good option, particularly if she cannot type or write at all. Current PC systems seem to work very well, make fewer mistakes, and allow you to correct the mistakes they made a lot faster than in the past. Maybe this is what she needs. It probably won't replace a mouse though, just a keyboard. Navigating a web page by voice is neither fun nor efficient. All up, it really depends on the current condition of her arms. Although I've given this advice before, it's still relevant. Get software that kicks her off her computer regularly, say at 30 min intervals. If it really is a repeated-strain injury, giving her body a little extra time to rest and mend itself between damaging stints will be much better in both the short and long term!
We use these at work, and a lot of people found it helped them:
http://www.evoluent.com/vmouse2right.htm
The Fingerworks Touchstream keyboard is ideal... it's a combined keyboad/mouse built from two touchpads, and uses 'multi-touch' technology for gestures and mousing. So for mousing you touch two fingers on the right-hand pad, to click you touch a third finger. It's also highly configurable, and great for RSI because there's no force involved in typing and there's no repetitive switching from keyboard to mouse.
Sadly they don't make them any more, so the only way to get one is second-hand. They turn up on ebay from time to time. There are two on there at the moment, in fact. Expect to pay $500+, though.
http://www.cirque.com/products/desktop_easy.htm
Pop off the numpad keys and stick this in place with velcro.
Tapping does the clicking if you don't want to use the thumb buttons.
and use microsoft natural keyboard 4000 and a digitizer pad instead of a mouse. it really helps a lot.
also guitar playing has helped to strenghten my wrists.
Conservatism: The fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is your inferior is being treated as your equal.
It has to be the future of twitch games!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5167938.stm
Give the Mighty Mouse by Apple a try. You can use the entire mose as mousebutton. I never use my thumb at all when I'm working with that mouse.
On the downside, you still have to lift your index-finger to right-click. Give the user a mac and even that can be substituted by a control-click.
You should all be sad that Fingerworks keyboards are no longer for sale. (They were essentially two large touch-pads that you could type on, and use gestures on, including full mouse controls.) I heard Apple bought the tech, but nothing seems to have come of that. For a few months after they went out of business, the keyboards were selling for a thousand dollars each (they retailed for three fifty) on eBay, but I held on to mine like it was... well, like it was worth more than a thousand dollars, which it is. It is, quite frankly, God's personal gift to power-users. Using it, my wrist pain completely (one hundred percent) subsided, and my ability to communicate commands to my computer went up by a couple orders of magnitude. It was a totally natural way of sending commands to my OS and programs, completely customizable, perfect for programmers (which I used to be) because it had all the special characters conveniently mapped under the right hand (using a left-hand modifier). The one small gripe I had was that the tiny bumps which helped keep hands in the proper position weren't quite enough, I would have opted for a little bit of texture or something.
If you can find one, buy it and guard it with your life.
Everything from ergonomic keyboards and mice to foot pedals and eye-control: ...
Fentek Industries
Kinesis Corporation
AbilityHub
Solutions for Humans
"Good news, everyone!"
Specifically, this one
I used to spend 8 hours a day sitting on my specially-ordered ergonomic chair, tapping away at my ergonomic keybaord, wearing wrist supports, popping pain killers, and contemplating quitting my job because I had RSI in both wrists so badly my hands actually burned with pain. I started the excercises listed for wrist pain in that book one weekend, and when I came back to work on Monday, I chucked my wrist supports into my desk drawer, along with my painkillers, and never used them again. The chair went back to the suppliers a few days later.
RSI is *not* caused by too much movement - the body exists for no other purpose than movement, and it was "designed" for a hell of a lot more movement than we give it by sitting in chairs all day. The cause of RSI is *bad* movement: Movement in a bad posture, using the wrong muscle groups, etc. A primary cause of my burning hands was that I typed with my hands bent back so the tendons in my forearm were scraping over the bones, rubbing them raw: sitting up straighter so my hands naturally bent forward/downward eliminated 90% of my pain overnight.
The problem is with the body, not the office equipment. So don't waste your money on a new mouse: Fix the real problem.
So.. it has come to this
This is probably not practical for your situation, but I found that if I started working from home, with a laptop, I could get in to all sorts of positions, and vary them, to release pressure. I can lie down with the laptop on my lap, I can crunch in to a ball, I can sit in a big comfy chair, I can sit on my bed, etc. This has kept RSI at bay for a year or so now - it's as much about the flexibility of being able to move around as much as anything else - if I stay in the same position too long (a couple of hours) now, then it starts to creep back.
:-/
Make sure she gets professional help - my physio gave me a bunch of useful exercises, and did some massage to break down scar tissue. Make sure she insists that her doctor refers her - my doctor tried to convince me that what I really needed was some ibuprofen and a week off work
-sheriff
Score:-1, Funny
Where'd you look? Google provided about 656,000 results.
These trackpads have been pretty openly available for the past many years. Just in case google is down, here's a direct link to a seller.
Those who know, do not speak. Those who speak, do not know. ~Lao Tzu
I'm using the mousetrapper (http://www.mousetrapper.se) and it's really helping. (No affiliation)
Track Ir is actually trought to be used in online games, especially in simulations where you would like to use the hands for steering input and the head for looking around in your vehicle.
AFAIK it emulates the mouse (because most simulations use the mouse for moving the view angle) and therefore shouldn't need any special drivers for applications.
this might be geeky but it might be worth a try (i am really not sure if it is usable as mouse, in games, it works like a charm).
Dasher is, albeit still in development, a very promising input tool for people with disabilities of varying degree, from Carpal Tunnel Syndrome to Quadraplegy (it has already been used to type complete BSc thesises), and it promises to soon provide a speedup in typing speed even for normal users. Check it out.
No, I'm not affiliated with the project in any way, I only had my nose poked at it by a friend. And I must say, it's impressive. And it is FOSS.
You can get a lot of the info. & details of the exercises from the website: http://www.egoscue.com/
So.. it has come to this
Tell her not to use a mouse, and to use software that doesn't need a mouse.
... people with RSI ;-)
Is this still slashdot?
Actually, no seriously.
Tools like mutt, vi, bash, etc. actually tend to cause less RSI per amount of work done.
They take practice to get used to, so they're only useful for people who need to get a LOT of work done and are therefore better off and willing to invest the time, or
Most RSIs aren't caused by the device being used. They're caused by poor workstation ergonomics in general. Start with her posture. Is she sitting with her feet flat on the floor, knees bent at about 90 degrees? Are her chair arms removed or set as low as possible? Ideally, she shouldn't rest her elbows, wrists, or the heels of her hands on anything while typing. When typing, her elbows should be close to her body and bent at about 90 degrees also. Given the posture constraints, her keyboard and mouse height will likely have to be adjusted. It's important to adjust the height of the equipment, not the height of the chair. Raising the chair will raise her legs, causing her to adjust her posture away from the optimum. For sensitive users, such as this person seems to be, you need to throw away all those wrist rests, pads, and other items that may put pressure on or near the carpal tunnel area. Even those swoopy microsoft keyboard, with the huge, non-removable wrist rest aren't very good for truly sensitive types. Correct posture of the legs, back, arms, and wrists is the real solution.
I had huge problems with my wrists, for years. I finally went to work for a company big enough to have an ergonomics specialist. When I mentioned it to my boss, he immediately called her, and she came to my office to assess the situation. After a *long* lecture about posture, she took away all my so-called ergonomic gear. She then had the facilities guys come install a height-adjustable keyboard tray and bring me a new chair (Aeron, w00t!). Once everything was adjusted, the problem pretty quickly went away on its own. The only thing that I do now that's exceptional is that I use a trackpoint keyboard at home (from http://pckeyboards.com/).
Since most left handed people are more adept at using their right hand than righties are adept with their left hand, a left handed person can switch to mousing with their right hand (relatively) easily. Personally, when I had a tech support job, I quickly learned to mouse with my right hand just as easily as I do with my left hand, because I had to work on many people's computers, who were, of coure, mostly right handed.
To this day (about 4 years after I stopped doing this regularly) I can operate a mouse just as easily with both my hands. Typing is still a drag, though (I type with one hand, in a weird [yet fast] way).
When I had tendonitis due to bad mousing, I just used my right hand, and it rocked.
this little silly pain made me learn how to use my left hand for the mouse. I have also learned to reduce any movements that are unnecessary so I made all my pointing devices super sensitive and fast. This means I only have to use the tip of my left index finger to move the mouse cursor between my G, B, and H keys (which is more comfy and less stressfull than reaching to the mouse or the touchpad below the keyboard). But hey, you gotta watch out - while writing this, for the first time after five years with this right to left hand switch, my left hand seems to hurt as well?!?! Or is it only psychological?! ;-)
The easiest way to switch is to make sure the buttons are inverted. This has to do with how our brains are hardwired. Hundreds of years of the development of piano playing technique attest to this.
Try the following in a moment of idleness: start tapping on a table with your right hand, one finger at the timee from thumb to pinky and back.
Try synchronizing that movement with your left hand, first using the same finger at the same time. Compare that to synchornizing fingers according to their position (i.e. both leftmost fingers first). The results would make obvious what is the easiest practice (it is not gratuitous that you actually have the option to define your mouse lefthanded).
Countless hours of practice when one is learning to play any keyboard instrument (at least in the classical tradition, where you need full finger independence) try to teach your brain and hand to behave in a way akin to the one you are recommending. In the other hand the first lesson you will do is playing "in mirror", this can be done by a 5 year old without much fuss.
Left handed people should not make allowances for right handed people, specially when it takes a couple of minutes to configure the mouse correctly, which is the way nature intended, and that makes the switch much faster and easier.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
First off, all the above suggestions are great. Yes, I've had enough problems that I haven't actually been able to touch a computer (let alone anything else), so I've been there.
- Try to learn to mouse with your left hand. It'll be annoying at first, but the way I made myself get over it was start up a game and then don't let go. I had it down within a couple of hours. Don't change the buttons around, though!
- Keyboard shortcuts
- Learn to type correctly
- Correct desk/chair
- Drink lots of coffee and tea, preferably from a cantine away from the desk
Finally - powerball. Though it's more the physical therapy direction, I've seen it help lots of people. Maybe she should try that? http://www.powerballs.com/.
Good luck!
Hannah
I know someone who uses a keyboard from Maltron ( http://www.maltron.com/ ) and within a few months they went from being able to type for 5 minutes and not hold a mouse to being able to type for several hours with easily use a mouse. If they go back to a normal keyboard the pain returns within 30 minutes, but the Malton keyboard (specifically the Maltron Ergonomic 3d) never causes any pain. Takes a week or so of use to get used to the layout of it though. They do ones with trackballs built in, but I don't know much about those and how good the trackball is for input.
Or you could just buy a stand alone wrist rest...
Firehed - Unfortunately, thanks to medical breakthroughs, common sense is not as common as it once was.
NaturalPoint's SmartNAV system enables mousing with your head/neck. There is a IR emitter and camera that you mount/place on your monitor, and it tracks a reflective dot that you either wear, stick to glasses, or put on a hat (the kit comes with a hat with integrated reflective dot). Clicking is accomplished by the software mapping convenient keys on your keyboard, or by voice activation.
The system is suprisingly sensitive and intuitive, with a little practice it becomes second nature to point with your head. For the record I'm not an employee of NP, but I am right in the middle of a product review on the SmartNAV3 AT package (and will be posting it at FresHDV in the very near future). I have to admit that I did not anticipate that it would be a very intuitive system. And I've been pleasantly suprised. The system is not cheap, but the relief for those plagued by RSI is well worth the cost. What's great is NaturalPoint offers a evaluation period, you can return the product within like 30 days if you aren't happy with it. It would be well worth looking into for your co-worker.
How about teaching her how to use keyboard shortcuts? Most apps work just fine without a mouse (even Windows - just learn "CTRL-Esc", etc).
No sig today...
I own laptop with a Synaptics touchpad, and while i like it for mobile use, I always plug in an optical mouse when I can. You don't have to use your thumb, but I find it stressful to use more than 30 minutes or so. They are just not designed for prolonged and ergonomic use, though perhaps that is different on stand alone touch pads.
Firehed - Unfortunately, thanks to medical breakthroughs, common sense is not as common as it once was.
... causing harm is victimizing the user.
There has been very little thought about important aspects of ergonomics when designing most keyboards and mice.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I switched hands too (from right to left) and that worked like a charm till I got pain in my left arm. Because the problem never went away in my right arm, despite exclusively using my left, I had no arms left. I sought professional help (which I strongly recommend to the poster's client) and they showed me why switch is a BAD idea. Because your primary arm is dominant its muscles also tense up when using your other arm thus it is never truly relieved. So you are not only causing a new problem in your second arm but also supporting your existing problemen in your primary arm (or shoulder-side or wrist). I was told this and then hooked up to a muscle-tension meter so I could verify this for myself.
I have had great help from a specialized practice. It consisted of a multi-disciplinary approach including: psychologist, physiotherapist and mensendieck. My problems have not disappeared but I have learned technics to managed them.
Seriously: Don't switch! Get professional help!
Let her change hands. I did it myself and am now better in using my 'off' hand. I played stupid games like Minesweeper to train it.
Then do something about the pain and damage. Physical therapy worked fine for me. Physical therapists know a lot more about muscles and joints than your average medical practitioner.
Also, do something about the underlying causes. Probably the physical therapist can advise her best, otherwise get a ergonomist.
But get her to do something about the complaints! Just providing her with another way of input is not enough.
RSI is normally caused by a combination of factors at least that's what our consultant tells us, and I find her very good at het job).
As far as I've seen RSi can get out of hand badlt and sometimes just never go away if not treated well. I would say, do not try to solve things by yourself, and do not ask people that could know some stuff but are not authoritive.
Call in a pro. That would be best for your user. Works for my company.
I've used Data Hand on and off for about 18 months now, and I feel that it helps. Its mouse replacement is crappy, but I find that using the keyboard part alleviates the sharp pain I get in my fingertips, which indirectly but significantly helps the pain I get from using a regular mouse. The key is to learn keyboard shortcuts and cut down on mouse use. Use a browser like Opera which lets you surf exclusively using the keyboard. Data Hand is not trivial to learn, and it takes weeks to get used to before you can start approaching your old productivity. When the alternative is chronic disability, however, I feel it has been worth it. Besides, remember that the keyboard layout is almost the same as on a flat keyboard, so a touch typist will be able to make use of his or her old skills.
The Horse
The innovative computer mouse called Horse, developed together with Erasmus MC, Erasmus University Hospital Rotterdam, reduces complaints well as the risk of Repetitive Strain Injury (RSI). The Horse prevents over exertion of certain muscles in arms and hands, a major source of NSAH. Years of research have resulted in this concept which has been patented while the design has been registered.
See the information here: http://www.hippus.nl/en/main/
Good luck
I switched the mouse to my left hand when I got serious pain in my right hand. It took about two hours before my left hand hurt as much as my right. I know people who do this and don't have a problem, so it's personal and she should try this. I've tried a trackball, but that made things worse, but again I know people who benefitted from it.
Try a mouse pen. You can try the Wacom tablet, which has a wireless mouse. One thing that really helped was that when I didn't use the mouse (pen), I moved my right arm to the left, to the keyboard, in a resting position, which I didn't do when using the mouse (but like you do when pausing from writing with a pen). This is one of the main problems: when not using the mouse, you still keep your hand on it, and probably tightly fixed, cramped. When you realise this, you suddenly can do this when using a normal mouse.
There are more pen mice, like the Wow-Pen and the PenMouse. I don't know how well they work. The problem is that this is very personal, and what works for me doesn't have to work for you. And these mice are not cheap. But for me this is an investment in my future (as it keeps me working), so I don't mind spending money on it.
Another thing is the keyboard. I've tried a Trust natural (split) keyboard. It was a terrible thing, bad keys. Then I bought the Goldtouch split keyboard, which you can adjust in height and angle. This keyboard doesn't have a numeric keyboard, which is good, as this means that the mouse (on the right side) can be positioned more to the left. The more the mouse is placed out of center, the worse it is for you. The keys of the Goldtouch are excellent. The Microsoft Natural keyboard is bad because it is so wide to the right side (though it is solid and good quality). If you need a numeric keyboard, buy a separate.
I'm back to using a normal optical 2-button mouse with scroll-wheel, although I think I'm going to try another pen mouse. The Goldtouch keyboard is still my favourite. As typing is maybe less of a problem, she might try to learn to use the keyboard more extensively. Blind people only rely on this, so it should be possible to do this for most of the work.
There was a guy who had some kind of a mobility problem. He had a solution that involved using a mouse to point, and clicking with his foot. This was done through a simple switch that was spliced into the mouse. It was an old-school Sun mouse, IIRC.
It was a home-brew solution, but it worked well. I don't know how hard something like that would be to rig up, but I assume it was pretty easy.
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This product here by targus is a sort of a pointing device like the ones you'd find on IBM and Toshiba laptops a few years ago before trackpads took over completely. It's meant to be a "presenter pointing device" and its shape allows use with one hand, with or without desk and although oposable thumbs help, you can use any other finger to move the cursor.
interestingly enough, I've seen them on sale for EUR59, or bundled with a laptop carrying bag for EUR99. On this online shop they retail for US$44. grrr.
I have one of these. Sadly they're no longer in production since Apple bought them out.
I have had similar problems, and solved them by not using the mouse. Many programs such as outlook and word can be used mouse-less via keyboard shortcuts.
I used to have problems all the way from shoulder to fingers on my right hand till I switched to a left handed keyboard. Having the keypad on the left meant I could use the mouse in the space it takes on a normal keyboard and stretch less, that small difference was enough to cure my RSI.
I'm still using everything righthanded so much less change than actually switching hands, just takes a while getting used to the keypad being on the 'wrong' side.
"In both this article and the one about standing vs. sitting at work, I see endless well-intentioned posts from people saying, "this is how you fix your problem." Almost always, it means (and often actually says) "this is how I fixed my problem, so you should do it to.""
The tone of your post suggests you believe this to be a problem and that people who have had this problem and solved it shouldn't answer. Are you therefore proposing that answers should only come from (a) people who have no experience resolving this kind of problem and (b) people who have 100% understanding of this individual's specific circumstances and absolute certainty as to the cause of their problem?
Personally I'd consider answers from the first group to have less relevance than answers from the people to which you object, and I'm pretty sure the second group is non-existent.
Most people only have two hands. If you end up RSI-ing your other hand too, then what do you do?
(I grew up with a left-handed, computer-owning Dad, so I actually got quite good at operating the mouse with the wrong hand. However, once I got old enough to have my own computer I quickly lost the knack, which is a shame.)
Although you may well use your thumbs to squeeze your mouse, you don't really need to, we only do so out of habit.
I personally use a tiny wireless optical mouse (they usually refer to them as targetted at laptop users on the road, but it has all the standard, fully-functional 3btn+scroll mouse features. And I use it with my hand flat (when not hitting the scroll wheel, I even just hold it with just my two fingers in a sort of relaxed peace-sign pose), no thumbs involved whatsoever. It takes some getting used to when you've grown accustomed to a mouse you could use as a shot-put in a pinch, since it feels so light and fragile, but the smaller ones can actually take more abuse (designed for chucking in a bag and travelling around with you, after all).
Someone else already mentioned this, but I also recommend switching mouse-hands. Within a day you'll stop feeling painfully frustrated, and within a week you'll get back to your normal speed with it. And, that leaves your dominant hand free to write with, meaning you don't need to keep switching tools in one hand while your nondominant hand sits limp and useless at your side.
And, finally, as yet another person mentioned - The keyboard and mouse doesn't cause RSI. Your posture and workspace layout does. Correct that, and (if you haven't already caused permanant damage) the symptoms will slowly fade and vanish. If you only deal with a workaround while keeping the same terrible workspace, your next Ask Slashdot will talk about elbow, shoulder, and neck pain rather than just wrist pain.
In addition to looking for a mouse replacement, look at alternatives to using the mouse at all. What options are available will depend upon the OS. I use Linux at work, and use Ion as my window manager. For most of the operations I do I can avoid using the mouse entirely. Avoding moving between keyboard and mouse makes a big difference. The only thing I use my mouse for on a regular basis is firefox, and with properly designed web UIs you can navigate from the keyboard pretty heavily.
For a mouse replacement I use the Kensington Expert Mouse, which is a trackball with a nice large ball and four buttons located around the ball. If I'm using my fingertips to move the ball I can reach any of the buttons with my fingers.
In my experience (only 20+ years or so ;-) it's not really the keyboard use that causes the problems, it's using the mouse. Unless the work is such that a mouse is absolutely essential you may want to start with working on keyboard shortcuts - it's also much faster.
/remove/ the use of a mouse, but it'll certainly minimise it. I've had carpal problems for a while until I did just that, but it does very much depend on how far the problem has progressed. Especially when users leave it too late it's sometimes almost impossible to recover without abandoning computer use altogether, and believe me, not doing that will get pretty darn ugly - I've seen it up close a few times. Nothing is worth the near disbablement that results.
The problem is of course that Windows as a GUI is pretty crap without a mouse, but even that is manageable.
It won't
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Insert
I went through a similar situation with my hand and did a fair amount of research a couple years back. Have you tried roller mouse http://www.rollermouse.com./ A co-worker with Osteoarthritis loves it. It worked well for me but I found a combination of a vertical mouse and a Kinesis Advantage keyboard works best for me. I have always wanted to try one of the hands free IR based systems such as the ones offered at http://www.naturalpoint.com/ (Note: used for example purposes, not meant as an endorsement).
"I myself am made entirely of flaws, stitched together with good intentions."
I didn't read all three pages of comments, so with any luck this has not been covered... When I had Carpal Tunnel I switched to the ...
>>> Logitech Trackman Marble FX.
This device is a trackball but it has an angled housing which makes using it feel very natural. I have recommended it to many folks who also have pain in their hands and arms and for everyone it has solved the problem.
The catch?
They don't make them any more. Go to eBay and buy a used one.
why not try a touchscreen?
sic transit gloria mundi
In 1994, I had RSI to the point that I couldn't turn a doorknob or zip my pants. First off -- check your nutrition. For me, 100-200mg B6 a day helped A LOT. I'm now in remission, and on the computer all day, every dayWhenever my RSIs act up I pop some extra B6. (this is not a prescription, nor am I a doctor -- this is what worked FOR ME). Second -- I stave off my RSI by swapping between various devices all day. I use my laptop a lot, with a trackpad, when doing 3D art, I'm using my dual processor desktop computer with a mouse, and when I'm doing Illustrator or Photoshop work, I'm on a pen tablet. It may be that some tasks are more suited for varying devices, and changing where the stress points are (and still taking frequent breaks, and popping my vitamins) helps a whole lot. Third -- wrist braces. It's not the braces so much as the constant reminder to be careful :)
Swapping between various input devices -- trackball, trackpad, mouse, keypad/keyboard navigation, voice navigation, and maybe pen tablet -- would probably take a lot of the stress off the particular areas of problem without creating new areas of problems.
After 1994 I've never had so bad an RSI issue. I also no longer type people's term papers at rush rates at 80+ wpm ;) I get to the point of some mild pain and twitching, and then I take preventive measures before I get to paralysis and numbness.
Being in the middle of a problem probably warrants agressive measures. If it's just at the point of "some pain" then it's probably much easier to treat. Don't let it get to the point of numbness and paralysis though!
It may be warranted to take anti inflammatories or (cortico)steroids -- talk to a doctor &/or a neurologist.
---- I'm out of your mind!
Apart from the ergonomic descriptions already given, I would recommend:
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/ for keyboards (the contoured are my personal choice)
http://www.mousetrak.com/ for mice
Both have worked well for me since I developed an RSI working back in the dot-com days. About 2 weeks worth of adjustment to the new devices and no problems since.
I've got an E-Quill AirO2bic vertical mouse. It's basically a mouse turned on its side, with a 'quill well' (marketing lingo for 'hand rest'). This lets you move the mouse around without using your thumb for grip at all. Probably best if you visit the site. They'll give you a better description, with pictures.
It's perhaps a bit expensive, for all you're getting, but I found it helpful, so there you go. Worth the cost for a bit of comfort.
What about switching hands? If she's right-handed, switch the mouse to the left, keyboard right. It would take a while to adjust, but it would also give her the opportunity to adopt good technique for using that hand from the start, and hopefully not suffer a recurrence. I considered doing this myself while suffering pain in my mousing hand and wrist for a long time, but managed to eliminate the pain by other means.
RTFM; please, I beg you.
How about checking to see if there are any obvious, physical causes of the pain, and treating them? Specifically, I mean myofasical trigger points. Trigger points can cause chronic pain and other dysfunctions in the body, and can persist for years if not treated. I had numbness and tingling in both hands (left first, then right several months later) that I finally discovered was caused by trigger points in my scalene muscles (these tight muscles in the front and sides of my neck were either directly or indirectly putting pressure on the nerves to my hand). I highly recommend The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook by Claire and Amber Davies. Very well-written, with clear illustrations and directions for finding and treating almost all of the major muscles in the body. I'm nearly symptom-free, and expect to be fully recovered within another week or two. Please be aware that I am in no way affiliated with the authors nor the publisher.
Of course, it's quite possible that something else is causing the pain, but trigger points are more common than most people think, and they're quite easy and inexpensive to diagnose and treat.
Nohands footmouse http://www.footmouse.com/ It worked for me... kinda. Several years ago I bought two of these and both broke after two months of normal use. These things should be built using machined steel, not crappy plastic. Now workrave does the best job of keeping the pain on manageable level....
who experiences sharp pains in her thumb, hand and arm when using her mouse.
Stop squeezing so goddam hard and it will stop biting her!
Please sign petition to restore sanity to our banking system!!!
http://financialpetition.org/
... switch to emacs! If you're running X, also switch to ratpoison. No mouse required!
http://outcampaign.org/
Also called IBM space saver with trackpoint.
You can find them on ebay but they are stupid expensive.
I've got one, works good, key action is not as nice as a Model M, but I don't like to take my hands off the keyboard to push the mouse cursor around.
You still have to use the thumb to click or space bar.
It took a real world war to end the airplane's patent wars. - Fâché Rouge -
Tylenol is not the solution, it's a way to make the problem much worse then it is. At first painkillers let you forget about your pain and continue with your bad posture, then they stop working and you have to spend endless nights coping with never ending pain...
Brain control the sucker.. or for you 1337: use neuromotor prosthesis.
Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5167938.stm/
Unbelivably IBM appears to have removed the image from the purchase site here, but this keyboard wit h and integrated Trackpoint device is what my entire development team uses.
I tried putting in a direct URL, but IBM's terrible store front site does not seem to work when you link externally.
So here's how you get to it..
1) ibm.com
2) Products
3) Upgrades, accessories & parts
4) Keyboards & mice
5) IBM Keyboard with Integrated Pointing Device - USB - US English
it rocks.
Maybe this individual is experiencing pain because of lack of exercise in certain areas of the body? I can speak from personal experience here that not getting adequate exercise can lead to RSI-related issues.
A couple things that have helped me:
0. Eliminate the source of aggravation. For me it was using a computer at the wrong height, keyboard wrong height, reaching too far for the mouse, etc.
1. Workrave, or Anti-RSI for the Mac. Software like this reminds me you to take breaks on a regular schedule in case you get so involved in your work you forget about the world around you. Workrave even shows exercises on screen so you can follow along. Brings us to next point.
2. Exercise. Do some regular stretches for the areas that are bothering you. Not sure what to do? Look online for exercises for RSI.
At one point in my IT career I had RSI so bad I missed about a week of work. At that point I tried doing physiotherapy but I didn't really find the exercises or treatments I was offered did much for me.
Then I went to a yoga class and had almost immediate relief. I started going once a week to classes and overall my back pain and wrist pains were reduced signficantly.
Another thing that has helped alot specifically in the area of the wrists is indoor rock climbing. It really strengthens upper body, shoulders, forearms, fingers, etc.
I have been suffering from RSI for about a year now and found some things that help.
Voice control software. I use ViaVoice myself. It is a real pain to train, but once done it is very good for emails, documents and the like. Probably too unwieldy for a total replacement, but it can reduce the typing load.
RSIGuard a handy program that forces you to take breaks based on how much you have used the mouse or keyboard. Simple idea, but it is so easy to forget to take breaks.
Aerobic Mouse or Quill Mouse. If gripping a pointing device is the problem this is great. Its like a vertical mouse and your hand sits in a tray on the side of it. You can move it around and keep the hand relaxed.
Don't forget the monstrosity which is the Kensington "Expert Mouse" trackball. The 2" diameter ball is generally used with all your fingers, and doesn't really need the thumb to be used effectively. Probably a little more traditional/more easily acceptable than a foot mouse.
p ert+mouse
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=kensington+ex
The thing that makes the biggest difference for me is icing my hands, wrists and forearms *nightly* with packages of frozen peas. Do not use any towels wrapped around them, use the packages directly. Place one on the bottom and one on the top of your arm. Use your other hand to apply light pressure. I think I spend about 15 minutes on each arm (5 mins hands, 5 mins wrists, 5 mins forearm). Also, I do this on rare days when I don't use the computer.
It may take you a while to get used to, but it relieves the pain and inflammation tremendously. Everyone is different and has different problems, but I am always surprised at how little this is encouraged.
Of course, this should not be the only thing you do. I'll include my other advice, even if some of it is repitition (groans):
Listen to your body. The pain is telling you there is a problem. You need to address the situation and not try and ignore it.
My brother-in-law is a tuba player, who is experimenting with electronic music. After playing around with a loop pedal, he wanted to do his looping and effects on a computer, but he had no way to control it because both of his hands were busy playing the tuba. So we took an old shoe, and cut a hole in the sole. Then we mounted a small laptop cordless mouse in it. We had to turn the resolution way down, but he can point with his foot, and click with this big toe. It took him a bit of time to learn to use it, but my wife, who is an organist, learned to use it pretty quickly.
Just a strange suggestion
For further reading:
What, me worry?
- Avoiding RSI
- Some tips
- Preventing and healing* Carpal Tunnel Syndrome & Repetitive Stress Injuries
- Posture for a Healthy Back
My 2 cents, W.She needs to see an orthopedic surgeon NOW!!!!!!
I have the same problem: changing hands is initially awkward, but it helps.
Check her posture ... any reaching forward aggravates the tendons. Ergonomics must be perfect.
A keyboard with integrated touchpad would allow her to use fingertips instead of thumb ... might help.
She needs to REST NOW or this can turn into a permenent problem! And a wrist splint that immobilizes the thumb (the low-cost equivalent is to tape the thumb to the hand). Wearing wrist braces as much as possible
Taking painkillers is counterproductive unless you take painkillers AND rest ... painkillers without rest allows you to continue damaging the tendons and by the time the damage is so great the painkillers don't work, the tendons might be beyond recovery.
Buy all this crap that you're seeing mentioned -- some of it will be good, I'm sure. But start by getting her a good chair -- one with back support and NO ARMS. A stenno chair. A strong, well made one (Hint: You CANNOT find one at Office Max) will cost about $200-$250.
At the same time, measure her desk. Her arms should be at 90 degree angles. It's very possible she's typing at a writing height desk. That means her shoulders are up, and her arms are stretched out. The solution is not jacking up her cahir or giving her a box for her feet, it's getting her the right desk for the job. Spend some money on her. Get on with a corner facing her which is well rounded, and with supports that let you set the desk height for her.
Work on that stuff at the same time as all the nifty gadgets.
Meanwhile, unless she's allergic to it, she should start taking ibuprofen in reasonable quantities.
Remember how RSI's work. Every day you do damage to yourself. Every night you heal. When the damage exceeds the healing, you get worse and worse. When the healing exceeds the damage, you get better and better. You don't need to fix things in a day. Making things somewhat better will (over time) make the problem go away.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to make it MUCH better, very quickly. Just that ultimately, things are going to be ok, and she need not worry that this is going to happen for a long time, so long as the trend, after all the two of you do to help the situation, is always toward less pain. If that's the trend, then soon there will be no pain.
I am a student that works in the Adaptive Technologies for Information and Computing (ATIC) Lab at MIT. You can find our website at http://web.mit.edu/atic/www/
Our website lists plenty of pointing devices but like you said, they require the use of a thumb. What I would recommend is that your friend obtain voice recognition software like one user of our lab who also has wrist problems. For example, use Dragon NaturallySpeaking for text entry and navigation:
http://web.mit.edu/atic/www/tools/voice.html
Feel free to browse around the website for information about RSI and ergonomics. Unfortunately, the lab is only open to MIT students and faculty.
This is what they look like:m lookup/_31P8950?OpenDocument&sourcesite=lenovo
n t.do?lndocid=MIGR-45867
:)
http://www5.pc.ibm.com/lk/products.nsf/$wwwpartnu
and, here is a chart listing all the available part#'s; you are looking for the "marketing" part number for your product:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/docume
One thing to note is that IBM/Lenovo will not provide warranty on the product unless it is associated with a laptop or desktop computer (or server)... it really makes it a pain in the *** to deal with specially if you were the unlucky recipient of a keyboard that was DOA. I had my vendor fax in the invoice to IBM/Lenovo and they added it to my laptop's warranty and I was only then able to get a replacement
Otherwise, the keyboard is great; thin and light weight, full size keyboard with keypad. It has two pointing devices: a touch pad and a track point (the little pencil eraser like stuffed between the GHB keys...(no pun intended)... and two of each left and right mouse buttons... comes with a two port usb hub for your usb dongles and memory keys... the only thing this keyboard would be missing would be bluetooth and backlit keys.In the box you will find a useless driver cd and a set of rubber tips for the track point.
I've found out the hard way that increasing the mouse sensitivity increased the pain in my wrist.
My orginal thought was that it would improve my efficiency however it ended up stressing the smaller muscles in my hand. I reduced the sensitity so that from corner to corner on the screen is about 10cm-15cm on the desk and my pain went away in a couple of days. So now my larger shoulder and forarm muscles are used which can handle more stress.
I just wish it didn't take me two weeks to figure it out.
-Todd
Trackpoint... takes about a month or so to get used to (which most people hate it during), but after that, you wont ever want anything else, and - no thumb strain & very little finger usage to get it to move.
If you've tried the Trackpoint knockoffs, they are no comparison either (most suck).
If you can find one anywhere, I'd get the person a touchstream. It's well worth the money imho, as I have never had pain while using it. They are VERY expensive now, but not as expensive as surgery. The company is not around anymore, so eBay is about your only choice. btw, it's both a keyboard and a mouse in the same surface.
If you use the mouse more than you type (like I do) a tablet can really help. It solved my wrist problems. The $100 model is all you need.
Serious question...
I just have some old Intellimouse Explorer at work and I never use my mouse. The hand just rests on top and the thumb sits on the side and doesn't grip or anything.
I can't remember the name of the company, but they produce a wireless gyroscopic mouse (which can also be used as a regular optical mouse). You hold it kind of like a pistol's trigger, and just move your arm (or wrist, I can't really remember unfortunately) to move the cursor around the screen. It comes with a desktop charger, so you don't have to worry about constantly changing the batteries. Hope this helps some.
RSI is a very, very complex issue - and the chances are that your co-worker's problems aren't caused by her hands or wrists at all. Much or most of what is called "RSI" is related to musculoskeletal/postural problems much higher up the body - usually around the shoulders, neck, and upper arm, where nerves and blood vessels pass from the trunk to the upper arm.
5 510999?v=glance
Most of the problems can be traced to postural issues, but they vary from person to person, so it's impossible to suggest a specific solution without a) being there and b) being a trained physio.
I'd suggest two things:
1) Get a physiotherapist with experience with RSI-type injuries (often called "work-related upper-limb disorders" in the profession these days) to see her and prescribe a course of exercise. Stretching and nerve-glide exercises can be of enormous help. The physio will also be able to give an informed idea as to what habits or postural issues are causing the problem.
2) Get a full ergonomic review of her workstation. Various people have already covered this. I know one person whose RSI was entirely cured by moving their monitor six inches right.
She might also find that a course on the Alexander Technique or Feldenkrais helps - or she might find it's as much use as a chocolate teapot. Mileage varies wildly with those techniques.
For more information on the subject, I'd heartily recommend "It's Not Carpal Tunnel Syndrome" - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/096
Use a USB trackpad (Cirque makes a good one, the CueCat) and use break software like workpace (www.workpace.com).
Pain in the thumb could be the corpal tunnel. That can lead to bad things I don't even want to think about. Whenever a friend of mine experiences such pain, I make an effort to talk them into making a change.
So, in short: do your best to get her to change. Switching to the left hand, use a foot mouse, or an old Alps touch pad in her lap (with tapping, not clicking) instead of a mouse on the desk. In my experience, people don't typically use good judgement here. They wait until the pain forces them to change, at which point there can already be permament damage. My rule: if typing or mousing hurts, don't do it. If you can, tell your boss you need a holiday, and take a few days off.
I was a bit luckier. As a programmer, Emacs key sequences trashed my hands and I stupidly ignored the pain until it was unbearable. I had ulnar nerve entrapments in both elbows, with significant damage. The good news is that ulnar nerve underpayments have more room to swell than carpal tunnel underpayments in the wrists, so it's easier to heal. Also, there are good ways to type that help a lot (I now use a laptop in my lap, pushed pretty far away, and make only small motions with my fingers).
When I could no longer type, my employer kindly provided a quite office for me, and paid for the machines and software I needed, and also let me take a few months to become productive again. I used Dragon Dictate for 3 years to write code for Synplicity. The original HDL Analyst was written by dication, rather than typing.
If your friend types a lot of documents, she should get Naturally Speaking, which is very productive and easy to learn. This can lower hand stress a ton. If she's a programmer, it's much harder. What I did was train about 1,600 voice commands into Dragon Dictate to drive Emacs. Then, I could code and use the bash shell all by voice.
However, this is very hard. You have to learn hundreds of voice commands and have to be fluent with them. If you know 1,600 words of a foreign language, you are close to being fluent, and certainly can carry a conversation. It takes months of hard work, not weeks. Also, learning to program while talking is surprisingly difficult. The words your saying seem to interfere with the same part of the brain that writes code. When I type code, I can hear words in my head as I type. Try coding while talking. It's just hard. I would say that learning to code while talking is harder than learning to type fast.
Hope this helps... If you want more advice from a successful programmer using voice entry, e-mail me at bill@billrocks.org. You'll need to answer a challenge question to get past my challenge/response filter.
Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy.
posting anonymously so this will probably get ignored in the noise,
I have strained both arms and shoulders and had a bout of RSS and CS (carpels) and a short simaltanious bout of "tenis elbow" from doing to much IT work and moving. Acumessage-and a 2 two week leave from heavy computing worked like no other solution. Idebenone. I have used iSpeak, ViaVoice, and Naturally speaking while being in a world of pain doing grad work, only a stop gap-got a soar voice from using them. A older keyboard such as the IBM buckling spring some people I know swear by because it's more comfortable to work at. Now that I'm past the primary condition the only thing preventing a relapse not working at it fore more than 2-2 1/2 hourse at a time before doing something else. Seriously-RSS is not incurable disease, and from a organizaion and public health perspective it's probably easier to sell your client(s) on getting a nice fealing message (free from the gradstudents here at the School of Intergtrageted and Oriental Medicine) than some fancy schmancy hardware software stuff.
Is this a trick question? The solution is simple. Use the left hand. (Or right, if you are lefty.) Takes about a day to learn, and requires no change in hardware. In order to reduce stress after recovery, switch hands on a regular basis. TMD
-- Fortes Fortuna Adjuvat --
I had problems for years. I started doing stretches, taking more frequent breaks and I also bought http://www.evoluent.com/vmouse2.html
It's expensive but it was worth every penny.
One contributor above wisely pointed out that each repetitive strain injury varies from one individual to another, as we all tend to do to activities with our own unique motions. Working as a journalist, I would have these problems off and on. Usually, the key issue causing pain was the use of a mouse.
I tried a few different things, and found that trackball devices really helped. Ultimately, using a trackball with a very large ball was the best solution. I'm using one of the Kensington multi-button trackballs now on my desktop computer. It's easier to rest your hand on the large ball, and move the cursor using gentler hand motions. Smaller balls tend to be more "twitchy" when using them, and as a result the user will tense up the hand more while using it.
Another nice thing, is that the buttons can be individually programmed, so you can move the primary-clicking-button to another button on the trackball, so she won't have to use her thumb for a while.
It can take up to a couple of weeks for strain injury inflammation to subside. So it may be a while before the sufferer actually begins to feel a positive difference. If the strain injury is advanced enough, constantly switching from one thing to another in short order may actually make the pain feel worse. If the problem is so bad that nothing seems to be working, she needs to see a doctor and do some physical therapy to reduce/repair the damage.
I long ago switched to the Dvorak keyboard layout. For writing, it's great! But for programming or data entry, it may be less convenient. I enjoy using this layout as it works nicely for what I'm doing (writing and programming), and I found it entertaining to try and teach myself the layout. Note: Unless you can get yourself a quality Dvorak keyboard (I've never found one), you better get used to touch typing!
Mechanically, keyboards can also make a difference. Soft touch keyboards such as the ones Apple uses on their Powerbooks are great. The funky angled keyboards don't make much difference if you still have to pound the keys down to get a hit.
Whew! This water sure is cold!
Perhaps a new root cause analysis is needed? My gripping hand problems were fixed by adjusting the alignment of my 2 top vertebrae. My grip strength returned immediately and my pain was gone. Better get a NUCCA specialist (national upper cervical something or other); a regular chiropractor probably doesn't have the specialized training.
Cirque makes laptop like touchpads.
Some years ago, I was having a lot of trouble typing. Everything up from my elbows killed.
I switched to a Comfort Keyboard. It took a bit of adjustment and it was damn expensive (looks like they've come down to closer to $200), but it worked great.
After about six or seven months, I ended up switching back to a normal keyboard just because I switched workstations and was being lazy. The pain never came back though, so I just continued on with a regular keyboard.
-William Shatner can be neither created nor destroyed.
Switching input devices is useful, but not a solution - no matter what someone uses, they can strain particular muscles doing it. It's not only "workstation ergonomics," either, as it is not just limited to the workstation! Workstation ergonomics are important, of course, but she won't be able to correct postural imbalances there without correcting them in all the other areas of her life.
;)
The point of a new input device should be to lessen pain and rest the particular muscles that are most damaged. There are plenty of good suggestions here. But I think it's VERY important for her to start dealing with this as a long-term whole-body problem NOW. This is true for *anybody* with pain at the computer, especially if it's early enough to go away after some rest. It's not worth it to not deal with it.
As a starting point, I definitely recommend the book "It's Not Carpal Tunnel Syndrome! RSI Theory & Therapy for Computer Professionals," by Suparna Damany and Jack Bellis. I also recommend joining the Sorehand mailing list: http://www.ucsf.edu/sorehand/
She should try lots of different things to find out what helps her - and the same for any other staff members with a problem. I hope this message has been helpful - seven years lurking on Slashdot and this is the only post I've ever felt the need to comment about.
Try looking at the Zero Tension Mouse: http://www.zerotensionmouse.com/ and perhaps exercises from ART: http://www.activerelease.com/
Take and aspirin and stop whining. I can't believe how much of cry-babies we've become in this country. It doesn't matter in the least though. Soon the Chinese and other less "Whiny" people will ascend to become the dominant nation/culture and all us Whiny, Cry-Baby Americans will become second-class citizens in a world dominated by people who display the kind of "Pioneer Spirit" that are forefathers had.
We're becoming a nation of pussies and cry-babies! It's pathetic! No wonder the world despises us.
I'm so sick of hearing about stuff like this. We should be ashamed of ourselves.
If you get an injury from using a mouse you are pathetic. PERIOD!
Makes me want to puke. Deal with the pain a little. Christ...as you age you have aches and pains. It's normal. Stop bitching and moaning about it.
Lame ass!
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
eom
I had lots of RSI problems in my right arm. I use the mouse for normal computer use but sometimes I'll do some heavy bouts of FPS and other mouse-driven games. So my arm started getting numb/stuck from the wrist, some days even the shoulder would feel stiff (even as I type it's not 100% the same but no big deal).
My solution? I started doing my regular mouse work using the mouse in the left hand. I can't play FPS left-handed so I still use my right hand for that, but after I convinced myself that it was either learning to use the other hand or totally fuck up my arm, it took me about 2 weeks to get it right.
Plus, I get the added bonus that I automatically, without thinking, start doing some stuff with my left hand, like stirring a cup of coffee, picking up stuff, etc.
My RSI once got so bad that I began to have real problems because of it - not being able to turn doorknobs, not being able to use my hands first thing in the morning because they were so numb. What helped me was this book:
5 /qid=1152891127/ref=pd_bbs_5/103-2080030-5875051?i e=UTF8
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572240393/sr=8-
Get her this book, and have the bosses allocate an hour a day - half in the morning and half in the afternoon - to doing the exercises. Have her take it slow and steady. I saw solid results in only a few days, and near-complete recovery in a few weeks. Of course, this is one of those things you must keep up, or the symptoms will come back.
How about finding a mouse where you control the pointer with one hand, and put the buttons elsewhere, on the unaffected hand?
This sig no verb.
If you want a very different keyboard/mouse, I'd suggest DataHand. It is terrible for playing games (primarily due to 8-directional mouse) but it's unlikely you'll be playing computer games if you have RSI. You only use thumbs for mode shifts and most of those can be locked on. Furthermore, you can reprogram the keys if you buy the Pro model.
I use a ThinkPlus USB Keyboard with UltraNav (pointer nub and scroll pad). Google it. About a hundred bucks in the US. I have had carpel tunnel release surgery which didn't do much. Using the mouse aggravates my stress injury more than keyboard typing. Unfortunately I still have to deal with all those other peoples computers in my line of work.
After untold decades, I finally started developing significant finger, hand and wrist pain. I tried moving to a logitech thumb-operated trackball, and while it causes some stress as well, I've found that having multiple mice to switch between makes a lot of difference, as each causes different stress -- so by switching between devices you can spread the stress around so that no one group of ligaments/joints/nerves or whatever get a chance to get overstressed. FYI, I've never had a problem having multiple USB mice operational simultaneously.
Probably even more effective for me is the following: Every mouse I have, I've opened up, and removed various springs or plastic bits which cause the mouse buttons and scroll wheels to have more tension. With the circuit-mounted button switches, simply by over-depressing them using a small screwdriver, you can change the internal spring to supply less resistence force. On my more expensive mouse, the plastic that makes the buttons is continuous with the body of the mouse. I had to actually cut those off, and then epoxy them back on to provide for more independent movement. I have yet to lose a mouse on the operating table. And it's made a great difference to me.
I have a plan to one day make mouse pedals, which (unlike the version posted in this discussion) would have two single axis pedals, so that one dimension of mouse position is precisely controlled by each foot. And a software driver would map the mouse buttons to the keyboard. I think this would be the most natural interface. The one-axis-per-foot control may seem like it would be confusing, but after a few days, I think it would become the most natural thing in the world -- that's what those neural networks in the brain are for.
1) The touchpad on the average laptop doesn't require or encourage the use of the thumb. I'm sure you can find a keyboard or add-on with this interface. So there you go, a natural control that doesn't involve the thumb.
2) Send the woman to a _good_ physical therepist. Carpal Tunnel and other repetitive stress injuries can be effectively banished by (VERY SIMPLE) proper exercise and a surprisingly few visits to a competent professional. Hell, after my physical therapist showed me the three exercises and how to aleviate the symptoms _I've_ done it to/for my friends.
Don't get me wrong. Once the damage is there it _hurts_ to fix it. The person has to be _willing_ to do the exercises and face several sessions of agressive treatment. But most repetitive stress injuries are fixed by a agressive program of "walk it off dude".
Contrapositively, if the problem is actually the onset of arthritis or the result of physical insult, then the circumstances may be different. I'm getting old and I jammed my thumb by accident. It took months for the joint to heal, and it really only healed because I regularly stretched the joint (grab end of thumb with the other hand and then pick up/dangle the whole arm by the thumb until you feel the joint open, etc) [e.g. self-applied traction] has slowly let my joint recover. (And yes, this hurt, but it was a different/better kind of hurt.)
The sad fact is that sometimes you have to hurt yourself to heal yourself. People who are unwilling or unable to do this _will_ degenerate. People who _are_ willing may _still_ degenerate, but they will do better.
The "real" answer to repetetive stress injuries is to change your bad behavior and, just like dealing with heart disease, do the necessary and unplesant exercises or give up and succumb.
Don't get on my case for being insensitive. I'm old, and I have recently had my knee crushed by a car (tibial-platau fracture and crushed joint surface). I've also had a hideously painful colon surgery. I know from problems. There are things you can fix and things you cannot. But the sad fact is that usually you can not get better without sufering some pain. All my life my, now quite elderly, mother has complained about dentists "going too deep and hurting (her)". As a consequence now, in her later life, her teeth are literally falling appart. She was too squeamish to get things really fixed. She would only tolerate cosmeic fixes. Now she is irreperally harmed.
Changing the mouse for a repetitive stress injury is, frankly, a cosmetic fix. No matter what you change, the problem will recur or spread if the worker doesn't (or cannot) actually fix the underlying problem.
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
There was some sort of air keyboard online somewhere. Can't remember the name or site, but it's basically a keyboard that ain't... It's really some gizmo that sits on top of the wrists of the person typing as they type like on a real keyboard, but do so in mid air... not actually touching anything. It records their movements or something and remembers how they move to hit various keys, etc. interesting stuff.
The person experiencing the pain should change their usage habits. Take frequent breaks, and start doing some basic hand and wrist exercises. Finger rolls, wrist rotations, use one of those stress balls, massage the fingers, palm, wrist, and forearm. Most people do very little for mobility of the joints in their hands and they wonder why they have problems. If I sit at a desk 8 hours a day with my wrist pressing on the table, and move my fingers only enough to tap keys and move a mouse from side to side, I end up in pain, too. But if I take a few breaks, care for my plants, clean up the desk, and do some of those exercises every hour or so, I have no problems.
Check out the Twiddler its a cording keyboard, and mouse combo, with a few weeks of use you typing should be up to par, or with time greater as there are all sorts of programing options available.
http://www.handykey.com/
Here. I'm thinking about getting one of these myself, and found these reviews helpful. A few are from people that suffer(ed?) from RSI.
I use hand braces (futuro brand). They sell them at Rite-aid or Walgreens. I also use a split keyboard. When I don't use the braces my wrists and hands hurt (insert joke here ). A split keyboard helps, but the braces eliminate any pain. I notice that if I use the braces then it helps with other things when I'm not wearing the braces that can be painful like opening cans or gripping things.
At my company, I often see people walking around with wrist braces. Perhaps your employee would be best served with a $20 wrist brace from the drugstore?
No, I will not work for your startup
sitting in the chair, feet on ground, back straight ... have her rotate her shoulders in circles for about 15 seconds, then relax them. bring the hands forward to a comfortable typing position and WITHOUT TENSING the shoulders, measure how high they are from the floor. That is the correct KEYBOARD height for her, and it's probably going to be surprisingly low. I'm 5'5", and my best desk height is about 24 inches, or I need a chair with a footrest, like a drafting chair.
I will also bet that her mousepad is too far away or too far to one side, forcing an odd angle arm and wrist angle for mousing. A mouse that is too big, or with too sharp a curve, can also force odd wrist and hand movements. One good way to test is to have the user flop their hand over the mouse. The hand should cover the mouse, and the fingers should drape naturally and the palm rest on the desk.
NaturalPoint (http://www.naturalpoint.com/) is a hands-free pointing device. It's basically an ir camera and an ir-reflective dot. The dot is dorky, so I spent an extra $20 for the baseball cap. It works great, unless you're near a window with direct sunlight. Then the camera goes nuts. But I do all my mousing by moving my head, and clicking with my feet (I forget where I got the foot clicker, but the NaturalPOint website should point you in the right direction).
An MD specializing in "repetitive stress" injury practicing workplace medicine knows that the *only* solution to ending the pain associated with computer input devices is to stop using her hands at work. That is Medicine's best results-based evidence. It is her best chance to resolve her pain. Your employee should stop doing any work that requires use of the hands in a repetitive manner, at home, work or play.
/. The problem is not an employee's input device or injury affecting IT productivity. Ask the question what are the qualities IT values and how best those affected by injury IT could capture by other means.
If the person whom is in your employ is allowed the freedom to apply Medicine's "best advice", there is the chance over time the pain will get better. It can go away, completely in some individuals, if caught early. It can comeback again if a return to using the hands for work is tried too soon. Some people are cured after a couple years not keyboarding - can go back and can continue keyboarding pain-free again.
During the period that there are ongoing pathological symptoms and pain, _NO_ alternative device manipulated by hand will provide a solution to your IT input problem and relieve your employee's chronic workplace injury. You can change the problem with gadgets that offer to provide a promise, but that is what you are buying.
Differential diagnoses need to be ruled-out for repetitive stress injuries that are completely unrelated to keyboarding, like gout and other diseases. Surgeons sometimes must intervene to relieve pain associated with the severe cases of repetitive stress for which there is no other choice to provide the patient relief and return a quality of life. Surgery is not a solution to your problem (IT input) it is a reflection of the degree of injury for which there no longer is any hope for her condition to improve. Surgical intervention can and does cure a small percentage of people and they are able to resume a full and complete worklife. Surgical intervention may provide no relief and the procedure can leave a small percentage of patients in worse pain than before the surgery. Quality of Life for them can mean changing careers. Surgery is an irreversible decision, that is not without its risks.
IT input is a commodity, available in the open market. If in this employee circumstance she is either irreplacable or highly valued, you are asking the wrong question here on
Perchance there exists a solution, without the brute force imposition of restraint in its asking.
I can't use a mouse either, but more because of pain in my back and shoulders. For years I've used an Easy Cat attached with Velcro just above the numeric keypad. Once attached, you can recline in your chair, bringing your mouse with you. In this position, you can hover your hand motionless over the pad using your ring finger and pinky for support. The thumb rarely moves because the left button is positioned directly below. Or you can tap the pad for left or right mouse clicks. http://www.cirque.com/products/desktop_easy.htm
I have recommended this product (RSIGuard) for people and they have been quite happy with it. The program allows the user to program other keys for different functions and can be set up so that no clicking at all is required (in some cases). By changing the typical mouse patterns that a person uses, it can completely change how they interract with the computer. I actually had a user tell me that they were liberated from the pain after using it.
I have a contoured keyboard with a built-in touchpad.
Note the main problem people have with touchpads is the default touch-to-click --it happens too easily.
But the touchpad driver lets that feature be adjusted (less sensitivity) or even completely disabled (my preference; the buttons that accompany the pad are quite sufficient). I especially like the efficiency of not having to move the hand very far, from the keys to the pad, and back.
Here's a Google search.
For those who have two attached mice (or a mouse and trackball) you can use this utility to quickly swap the mouse buttons without hitting the control panel:
u ttons/SwapMouseButtons.html?
http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/mtpsoft/swapmouseb
"...I'd be interested in what practical input solutions Slashdot has..." clearly you've come to the wrong place for pactical solutions ... however, if you need someone to tell you that you should avoid all input devices in general since the government is tracking your every move then i'm sure you'll find what you're looking for
One factor will not not solve it alone. Some software will help a lot though.
The points by some others are dead on. Pain is signal from your body that its damaged. It needs to heal, first of all. In case you haven't noticed them, #1 & #2 have already been stated.
1. A pointer is basically tough on you - learn keyboard shortcuts, make sure you are in an ergonomically appropriate position - but keep varying it - it is abolutely step 1. My body always lets me know when I've been using the mouse too much.
2. Exercise - take breaks & do something else, look up stretching & strengthening exercises, and see a physiotherapist if you can. Medication is only a temporary relief and masks the problem - accumulated damage. My wife says that since she started over-the-head stretching its cleared up her carpal tunnel, and she'd switched to a trackball too. (The trackball hurts my thumb after a short while, but some people it works for. Same as with that joystick mouse). If your boss and the software won't accomodate you, then it is a safety issue!
3. One thing that really helped me was MouseTool. YOU DON'T HAVE TO PRESS THE MOUSE BUTTON, NOR GRIP THE MOUSE! Just resting your hand on the mouse is enough.
It automatically clicks when you move and then stop the mouse, or you can use a keyboard hotkey, etc etc. The default works great for me and not having to grip the mouse and keep clicking really REALLY helps.
It was by Jeff Roush, there's a commercial version of it now at quilmouse. You can still find a free version various places, although it has a few incompatibilities sometimes. I'm pretty sure the original was GPL. There's a Windows, Linux version and a Mac version may be available by now too.
Not that you can, and should, combine this program with other solutions... one factor will not not solve it alone.
I've supported people with arthritic thumb joints and this is a real problem.
I love the concept of Mousekeys (Control Panel | Accessibility | Mouse tab | Enable).
The problem is in the execution. Even with the fastest settings (set both scrollbars to the maximum right setting and then use your CTRL button), both the initial cursor speed and the acceleration are abysmally slow.
The previously suggested Logic Marble Mouse is my favorite, but with a twist. Have your user try using their first finger to operate the left mouse button and their index finger to operate the marble.
This will entail zero motion of the thumb joint!
Tell your user that like riding a bike, this may be a bit awkward at first, but with ten to fifteen minutes of practice, they should be able to move as quickly as they would like.
Good luck
-Leon Leon Roomberg www.roomberg.com
P.S. (If anyone has a routine or solution to dramatically speed up mousekeys, feel free to email my junk address of xxxlroomberg2xxx@xxxnetscape.net without the "x"s. Please put "MOUSEKEYS" in the subject line so I don't trash your email. [And yes, I tried googling for an answer without success.])
Live Long and Prosper - Thanks Leonard. You are missed.
In addition to hunting down alternatives for the one person that is experiencing problems, you might want to also take a proactive approach with everyone else (including yourself and your superiors). There is much more to preventing RSI than simply using the "right" keyboard and mouse. This is a good area to consult with an expert.
A company I used to work for hired someone from the Physical Therapy department at the local hospital to give a group presentation on ergonomics and RSI. The presenter then visited each person at their desk to help get chairs, desk, computers, phones, headsets, etc. adjusted in the best way possible. Although no-one was complaining of RSI at the time, there were lots of desk and chair adjustments made and lots of headsets, footrests, wrist supports, etc. purchased.
We also had a box with a variety of alternative input devices that everyone was welcome to try (e.g. Microsoft "Natural" keyboard, a split keyboard, a trackball, a variety of mouse shapes, etc).
If you have troubles pushing this thorough your management, you might make headway by pointing out that proactive measures are useful in preventing and defending future claims.
Hi,
Here's a big list of pointer device alternatives:
http://www.billbuxton.com/InputSources.html
You might want to consider using a glove - although they're not cheap. There are also some projects that work with a camera and a set of colorerd markers on your head (such as glasses) so that you move the pointer by moving your head, the so called Head-Pointers. Examples:
http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/headpointer
Cheers, - J
"I don't mind God, it's his fan club I can't stand!" E8
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet. Microsoft Easyball Mouse
Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?
There's a guy where I work with serious RSI injuries who can't use his hands hardly at all, and started his own eye-tracking camera company out of frustration. He works all day using that instead of a mouse. I watched him do it, and it's quite impressive, really. He says that blinking to click the mouse is much better than the foot pedal for him, since your "blink muscles" are designed to be constantly making that motion anyway, as opposed to holding your foot in the same awkward position all day and stamping thousands of times. Of course, I don't know how he avoids inadvertent clicks, but I suppose it's a question of blink duration. He uses voice recognition software in lieu of typing, and is a perfectly successful coder.
Patient : Dr it hurts when I do this ...
Doctor : Well don't do that.
It's a joke, but in all honestly it isn't a joke. If you have RSI, how about stop looking for less painful ways to continue to aggravate it and take some time off. Completely off - I'm not talking about staying home and playing on the computer for 10 hours a day (EverCrack monkeys - yea I am looking at you.) I mean off the keyboard. The company I work for gives us four weeks off per year and they damn well expect us to use it - it isn't so we can go to Disneyland or whatever (well in a way it is) - it is so we can do exactly that : take some time off and let our bodies decompress, destress, and give all the RSI some time to heal. You will never get better if you continue to wear at it - but take a month off and stay off the keyboard for four weeks, see if you don't feel like a whole new person when you come back.
You would think it was obvious, but evidently not. Take some time away from the machine. Get some sunshine in your face. Rest. Relax. Get better.
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
I don't care if she has a medical problem or is just stupid - if someone can't use a mouse they don't deserve to exist in the job market. Tell her to get out on the street and see if her thumbs hurt there. That's the American Way!
Switch hands. Takes a little getting used to, but you can get another ten years out of the other hand.
Cut out square shapes of rubber grippy (the kind you put at the bottom of kitchen drawers) and layer them over a mouse. You'll lose the ability to manipulate the thumbwheel but you can control the mouse with a few fingers.
I did this about 10 years ago for the same reason. It fixed my wrist/hand issues, improved my left-hand dexterity (if you'll pardon the word), and also provides passive security for my computer (righties go berzerk trying to use a left-handed mouse).
-- We all have enough strength to endure the misfortunes of other people. La Rochefoucauld
Have her use her non-dominant hand. Problem solved.
We designed the CLI for people like this.
I use the mouse to navigate while browsing and I try not to use the scrollwheel. Rather use PgUp and PgDn (or just the arrow keys) to scroll up and down. Use Alt-Tab to switch taks, Ctrl-P to print and Ctrl-B to enbold text.
I've found that I'm much more productive since learning to navigate menus (even the start menu with Ctrl-ESC).
Applications developers that don't offer keyboard shortcuts for their applications should be shot!
--deckert
And by that, licensing the technology to whatever firm is interested in it? I have been experiencing the same RSI as said person. With proper workout and different patterns of movement I have been able to resolve the problem in fewer than 3 months. However, as work continues, I will not be able to actually apply different movement patterns anymore, therefore I require new technology. Who is in for open source development of such technology with proper licensing so that we still get our share, apart from the recognition, from it? Regards, Carsten PS: If you like to contact me, feel free to mail me at carstenklein (at) yahoo (dot) de
I've been fighting RSI for about 5 years now. I have the 3M mouse, and from what I can tell, that's as good as it gets. I find that touchpads are worse even than mice because they don't have any give.
It might be time to just give up on the mouse. You can navigate around windows without one, but it takes a lot of work to figure out how to do it. Most OSes also have a keyboard mouse mode where you can move the pointer with the keypad. This should be a lot easier on the arms but it's insanely slow.
The problem with voice recognition is that it's hard to talk constantly for 8 hours. Your vocal chords wear out pretty quickly and you end up with a whole other set of problems. The same goes for switching mouse hands. I did that years ago, and it just moved my RSI from one arm to the other. I now wish I had one arm that didn't hurt so that I could sleep on that side.
My solution has been threefold:
Switching hands is suggested by several posters, and I found this to be easier than I'd anticipated. But note that nearly all desktop keyboards are assymetrical -- the numeric keybad, cursor, and other special keys are nearly always on the right side, which creates two problems:
(1) If a touch typist aligns the "home row" (ASDF JKL;) with the chair and monitor, as most guidelines suggest, it's a much longer reach to the mouse for a right hander. My impression is that mouse-related RSI is much more common among right-handed users of desktop computers.
(2) If the "entire keyboard device" is aligned with the chair and monitor -- which is often required by the width of the typing surface (especially so-called keyboard trays) or chosen implicitly by the user because it "looks correct," then the body is misaligned, because the home row is too far to the left.
Thus I strongly recommend that right-handers switch to the left hand for mousing, but not the converse. Related suggestions:
* Desktop keyboards with centrally-located pointing devices (track pads, track points) seem desirable for those who can learn to use them
* Laptop users are often advised to attach a "real" keyboard and mouse for sustained work. I believe this can be very bad advice for a right hander -- although there is the issue of optimizing the angle of view to the display. I believe I solved this problem by positioning a flat panel display *above* the laptop display, so I have a dual display oriented vertically.
Good luck!
DAU
I prefer laptops with a stick in the middle of the keyboard (Dell and Thinkpads have these). Moving the arm out from the keyboard to move a mouse gives me "mouse arm" after a while. I find trackpads to clumsy, and these "mouse trap" devices that some swear by, they ain't for me.
... stuck.
Now, the stick isn't perfect. It keeps recalibrating all the time, and when it does, you have to let it go for half a minute or more (so that it can find the center position). And sometimes the recalibration gets wrong and it is as if it gets stuck in a "low gear". There doesn't really seem to be any way to adjust this recalibration behaviour. Also, since the stick is in the keyboard, I am always looking down on the screen. Colleagues of mine put their laptops in a frame that it gets them up from the desk a bit, but then they have to use external keyboards and mice, and since I haven't found any external keyboards with sticks I am
Have an Ergonomics Analyst come to her work place and do a thorough analysis, and make sure that she follows their recommendations. The best advice you could ever get will be from an ergo analyst. all of the rest of us on /. are just past, present or future victims.
cheers
ram
I had pretty much the same problem some time ago. I switched to using my left hand for the mouse, but even that hurt after a while. So I got a touchpad from cirque. They are about 40 bucks for the USB version (I don't recommend the older ps2/serial versions that I used earlier, unless you want to play around with getting the driver correctly installed). Also, I got a Comfort Keyboard (about $300), and I don't use my thumbs for the space bar, I use my index fingers. I found the book Repetitive Strain Injury to be very useful in general (for good posture, input habits and exercises for healing the tendons), though it didn't specifically address this problem.Link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0471595330.
:)
Now I can use a regular mouse again, but I have meanwhile learned to use a trackpad with either hand, a mouse with either hand, and any weird keyboard
Hope that helps.
BTW: It is amazing how bad touch-typing is for your hands. I completely changed my typing habits, and as a result I don't type fast (while using lots of backspace). I think through what I want to write and then type it slowly but accurately. It has done wonders for my hands.
The right answer is Occupational Therapy or the Alexander Technique. This is a use issue. The user is doing something wrong and is just as likely to cause themselves stress with a foot mouse.
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/
Check out the Vertical Mouse 2
I have this and a Contoured Keyboard.
My experience with the Vertical Mouse 2 is that it takes a little bit of time to get used to, but it is a wonderful product. It has relieved the pain in my right hand.
Plus it keeps people off of my computer because they don't have the time to get used to my setup.
it works to relieve knotted muscles that press on nerves and cause tingling/numbness.
there are two types of acupuncture: Yin (feminine / low-energy type -- very relaxing and non-intense), and Yuan (masculine, powerful, high-energy type -- also very relaxing but very intense, as it causes fasciculation -- this means the muscle jumps around on its own with the needle stimuls, this jumping lets it release toxins).
you want the Yuan type of acupuncture
Orthopedic surgeons do more diagnosing and physical therapy referrals than they do surgery.
Although I have under the care of a board-certified orthopedic surgeon for years for multiple problems with forearms, wrists and hands ... he only mentioned surgery as a last-ditch alternative, and said the results of the surgery (not for carpal tunnel) were unimpressive: 6 months in a cast, a year of PT, and for a 30% chance of improvement, 40% chance of no change, and a 30% chance of being worse. His recommendations were rest, improved ergonomics, and a change of jobs.
A separate tough pad worked vry well for me. It can easily be moved around and used both with the left and right hands. The trick is to turn off all the special feature for drag & drop and taps. You can still drag by using a button with the pad. Being able to move with multiple finger strokes takes all the stress out of use.
Thank a veteran -- George
Sometimes I express myself poorly, but this time I feel as if you must have worked very hard to misinterpret what I was saying.
/. which start out, "everyone out there does 'x' wrong, except for me." This is all I caution against.
I'm not objecting to anything, other than the claim that any given solution that worked for any given individual is the definitive, end-all solution. There are a large number of posts in any ergonomic discussion on
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
I experience severe wrist and arm problems a couple years ago. My ergo department let me experiment with a lot of different solutions including the foot mouse. I found it very tedious and difficult to use for programming. It was very hard to do any exact pointing and I found myself with my feet tensed up, leaning back in my chair trying to get the cursor where I wanted it. This was making my back ache and wasn't particularly relieving my wrist pain. I finally settled on the roller mouse http://www.contourdesign.com/rollermouse/ The design slips under a standard keyboard and provides a sliding roller near the spacebar. I found I could quickly point the cursor just about anywhere with minimal wrist movement. It has really contributed to my quality of computer life. I liked it enough to get one at home too. Your mileage will vary.
Time off is a great idea, but something that also really needs to be explored is the underlying causes of the RSI.
I was a yoga teacher for 3 years, which made me very aware of how people used their bodies (posture, alignment, etc) -- and I noticed that all the people who complained of RSI had these shoulders that were very tight and lifted much closer to their ears than usual. It was obvious that their bodies were under a great deal of strain even when they were not doing tasks with their hands.
Stress and tension tends to make people tighten up their shoulders, and that tension is then transferred to the wrists and hands, since everything is connected. I remember when my girlfriend was traveling every week for business (as an IBM consultant) -- the stress from the constant traveling made her right shoulder amazingly rock-hard and tight, and her right hand and wrist developed RSI. Aggressive treatment with massage and chiropractic care worked wonders, and she is now pain-free.
Musicians are generally so relaxed when they play, that they rarely get RSI, even over long careers with many hours of practicing. If repetitive movement was really the cause, then every musician would eventually get it, as soon as they practiced the right number of hours to get it.
The cause is really related more to excessive stress and bad posture combined with overuse. The key is to be aggressive about the treatment and work on the RSI before it really becomes a problem, and not "work through it" until it becomes really serious. Yoga, massage, meditation, posture improvement, exercise in general, and chiropractic care are all really good places to start.
Any program worth its salt has keyboard equivalents; she should abandon the mouse if at all possible until the true cause of (and possible cure for) her pain is discovered.
... losing the use of ones hands. Awful!
If the user is able to make that transition (some folks don't adapt to change that well) I would also recommend her looking at the Dvorak keyboard layout, and possibly a different keyboard as well (Kinesis, TypeMatrix, etc.)
Also, as another poster mentioned, there are foot solutions (Kinesis makes one, for example, though I've never tried it).
Let's all remember that the standard (US English, i.e., worldwide) keyboard layout was invented some 130 years ago, and purposefully designed to slow down the typist so they wouldn't jam the individual dyes that made up a typewriter.
August Dvorak's solution came some 60 years after that, and may have caught on except for WWII, which caused most typewriter manufacturers to switch to guns. By the time the war was over, they'd had enough of re-tooling, and here we are another 60 years later, still with a dumb layout.
Here are a couple of other links on alternative keyboard layouts, courtesy of altkeyboards:
Dvorak Tutorial: http://www.gigliwood.com/abcd/
General Info: http://www.theworldofstuff.com/dvorak
Humorous History: http://dvzine.org/
Another Input Solution: http://www.datahand.com/
Best of luck to your employee. Losing the use of ones hands is like
Get the Microsoft Natural Keyboard 4000.
As a purely Open Source user in a purely Open Source environment, I do get to hear lots of funny jokes about my eeevil keyboard, but the important part is that this keyboard lets you type in an almost natural position. Long story short, i owe a lot the little stack of keyboards I bought for all places I am working at.
I read/scanned the entries for this post.
:P
I think you are all wrong.
I use wrist tensors aka wrist bands.
Not too tight, not to loose.
I have been doing this for at least 6 years.
No pain. Endurance level has gone through the roof.
oh, and martial arts training helps too. heh heh.
The human wrist is weak...very weak.
You might try the http://www.evoluent.com/vmouse2.htmlEvoluent Verticle Mouse
I have the classic thumb and first two finger numbness RSI. This mouse made a big differnce for me. It's not too expensive either. It's light enough that you don't have to grip it to move it around and you don't have to use your thumb for buttons. It's even usable if I have to wear my wrist braces (when I get too ambitions and over do it working on my project car).
I have used these things (Crique) for a long time.
...
Unfortunatly I stopped because they are just a peice of crap and don't work.
Now I used to not care because work bought them. Oh it broke, buy me another. But that really got old after a while and work thought it got old too.
The stand-alone mouse, shown in the link:
The main problem is it is too light. You click or hold-click and the damn thing flips up under your thumb. You have to map the upper right corner (light grey area) to hold-click. The fliping problem made me never use the stand-alone version. It really is unusable.
The keyboard version:
This is the standalone version integrated into the ergo (split) keyboard. This is pretty nice for as long as it works, which is about 1 year. Then the left button goes. You can forget hold-clicking. The button will not send a steady "hold" signal to the PC. Once again you have to map the upper right corner (light grey area) to hold-click via the driver. After about 2 years the things just stops working reliably all together.
This happened with ALL 3 of the ketboards I used.
Now the driver is a windows based drvier. So, if you use Vista (I'd assume) or Linux you are SOL. I think their might have been a Linux driver once upon a time, but
Anyhow, I enjoyed using these (4 total) over the 5 years I had them. But at $80 a pop it costs work. Now I just use a trackball.
Here you go. I've made a couple of these modified mouses in the past few years. It forces the hand into a more neutral position, removing the over-clenching that is a source of most problems.
http://liquidctv.com/mousecrop.jpg
What's required: Cloth, glue gun.
I also stiffened the buttons by putting a stack of electrical tape closer to the fulcrum point. No joke, a couple weeks on this thing and your problems will be over. Then you can switch back if you like.
Keyboard: I'm hunting and pecking on a flat Qwerty right now (better for games), but when I do development work, I use a Kinesis+Dvorak+stiffer springs (I got the springs from a box of ballpoint pens).
Ergonomic input is all about a) tactile resistance and b) neutral (flat) hand position instead of clenching.