Was MS expecting for the mainstream media to pick up this story? Were they expecting this kind of reaction - or did they think that the editors at/. would automatically comply with their demands?
Now, in light of the increasing attention to this story, I wonder what MS's next statement on the issue will be. The more attention it gets, the harder it will be for them to back down - but it will also be all the more necessary for them to do so. This situation can only hurt their current status with the DOJ - especially now that they are in the remedy stage. You just have to know that the judge is watching stuff like this closely.
What I am really waiting for is a reaction out of groups like the ACLU - have they contacted anyone, or are there any indications that they are going to make a support statement for/.? They are the most vocal about protecting the First Amendment - especially in David & Goliath situations like this one.
Its nice to see that you are continuing to live up to your reputation of attempting to squash any open discussions of your business practices.
Instead of pulling out the DMCA and trying to use it to control, take a look at some of the comments that were made. At the *very* good points that developers and other IT people made about your release. And consider them an independent discussion of your business. The people who were discussing you are in a large part the people who are also your customers, your developers, and the very community with which you want to be having open discussions.
The best thing you could do at this point is to retract your letter, *apologize* and perhaps contact the Slashdot crew about an 'Ask Microsoft' regular feature. You might be surprised at some of our questions -- and who knows, you may surprise us in a *good* way with some of your answers.
Its nice to see that metallica really appreciates their fans.
There is a concert up in Dallas in a few weeks - several bands, including Metallica, are playing. I really wanted to go - I like some of the other headliners. But I will be damned before I let one penny of my money go to support Metallica ever again...
As for anyone who is still making Metallica available through Napster - removed the MP3's. Don't distribute their music. Not because they are suing, but because they have proven themselves to be unworthy of their fans.
I have to admit that I was a little surprised (not in a good way) that posts from the whole Hellmouth series were being published.
Then I thought about some of the things that were said - the feelings that were expressed (I had some A/C posts in the threads somewhere)and the experiences shared. I realized that I didn't just want my words heard by the Slashdot community. That's preaching to the converted. There is a whole, wide world out there that has to learn of the impact of growing up a geek can be - and the scars that it leaves.
I am still a little ambivalent about the whole thing -- but I have enough trust in Rob & Co to let them run with this ball and see where it takes us.
I would suggest that the money go to youth outreach groups - ones that could make a difference for younger versions of all of us.
An almost final thought: a little warning would have been nice that this was coming out. As hurtful as some of the responses were - I think a lot of that was out of surprise, and perhaps, a feeling that perhaps Slashdot might be using its community to promote their own agendas. And then again, the whole thing involved JonKatz -- which causes AutoFlame/Trollz.
Final note: I bought the book yesterday. And sent it to my parents. I never could make them understand why my highschool years were hell. Hopefully the thousands of words in this book will paint the picture.
This is mostly referring to ISP's (I know, backbones *are* mentioned) - and where I live, the major DSL provider is SWBell, which is a semi-regulated provider. (Semi-regulated by the government). Telephone companies keep track of all sorts of data about us - all the calls we receive, all of the calls that we make. What they can do with that information is extremely limited. They are prohibited from selling or making that information available, unless its requested by a law enforcement agency.
Would those regulations also apply information that they may/could gather through a DSL-style connection? And if they currently do not, should they be expanded to do so?
The concept is rather scary - as long as a company can make money by infringing on people's privacy, those companies will have no issue to continue to track/monitor and sell information.
As much as I am against governmental regulation, some federal guidelines may be necessary in order to keep these companies in line.
Pinkerton is a major company. They have not only devoted hundreds of thousands of dollars into developing this program, but they are also putting their company name behind it.
They are using this to break into a new area - an area where they can police (because they are a security company) without having to employ security guards. Where they can pass on information that they receive, regardless of the source, with no liability at all to them. Whatever service agreement they make with the school system will project them from any legal backlashes.
What it is going to end up taking is a court case - a court case where some poor kid (given the statistics) has had his or her life turned upside down and backwards by some anonymous report because he/she listens to NiN or Ministry, runs a counterstrike server at home, and realizes that black is cool cause it goes with *everything.*
And the above will only happen IF the PARENTS of that kid decide to back him/her and go to bat for them. Many parents are just as scared of the school system as the kid is -- or honestly believe what the school is telling them, because they dont understand their child's motivation either.
The worst part is that once again people are going to have to be hurt by something before they realize its bad - much like a toddler burning their hand on a stove to find out that its hot.
I think the regulations that we are seeing be attempted are a natural outgrowth of how John Q Public reacts to things it does not comprehend readily. The Internet is still a great unknown for most of the world - and for most parents/corporations/etc. Since they do not understand the dynamics of how it works, they want it broken down into controllable pieces. In other words, forced into a shape that they can understand.
The difference here is that the Internet can and has grown faster than any government could possibly control it - and that has frightened the public more. The only invention in recent history that has has nearly as much of an impact on societal culture is the TV - and even then what was broadcast was controlled by corporations.
With the internet - all that you need a computer and a phone line. Anyone can put their thoughts, ideas, code, whathave you out for the world to see, comment on, and respond to. Its a nearly uncontrollable maelstrom to the eyes of governmental agencies, and they are going to try and get a grip on it any way they can.
Most of their attempts are going to be completely ineffective as the internet crosses both state and country boundaries. Countries are going to have to reach a global consensus on many issues before any true, enforcable laws can actually take place.
IMHO, what we are seeing now are growing pains of governments. Where those growing pains will lead will depend on who ends up with the most influence on the public through the media. Right now that is companies like Mattel and M$, but don't forget that everyone loves the underdog, and that can be leveraged to get Linux and Open Source projects the exposure they need.
People have gotten focused on using chemicals to solve every day problems. Have ants in your kitchen? Get Raid. Have aphids in your garden? Get a pesticide. But ladybugs EAT aphids. And woods like cedar and others can keep pests out of your home. Not necessarily ants - but other unwelcome guests. But people would rather buy a canned solution because marketing and media have pummeled them into believing that only the most recent new and improved spray/gel/etc can resolve their problems.
The complaints were made by two female students in the class to their parents.
Their parents contacted the school and complained to the principal.
What blows my mind on this is that the student made over references to drugs in his essay, and THAT issue was not addressed.
Also interesting is that the father is absent from all of this, and the mother waited 5 days before trying to hire an attorney to get her son out of jail.
There is an apparent lack of parental concern here as well, which makes the whole thing that much more complicated, and scary.
Either way, this kid is messed for life now. He will never again trust an authority figure. If the school had taken a different tack, this kid could have spent the past week in counseling, perhaps getting these issues addressed and handled. Instead, he has been stuck in an ADULT criminal facility, and whatever problems he had before are probably 10x worse now.
Actually, I assume they are scared that they will be sued or be on the wrong end of a lot of very bad press. Thats something no company can afford.
And as for the press - they survive by creating sensationalist stories that keep the mass audience's attention. There are few newspapers/magazines that maintain any sort of integrity these days -- hence the pleasant shock of Jane's recent threads.
Unfortunately, this is common media exploitation. There will always be an incident where a teenager/child/underage personage is able to rent an X, R or NC-17 rated video, cigarettes, alcohol, buy music listed as M only, a video or other game that has clear labelling as not being "appropriate" for that age group. Statistically this will always happen - its a standard bell curve situation where an outlier (an exception) has been exploited as an 'example' of how our youth is being corrupted in one form or another. These stories are so standard that I think only the names of the product and people involved get switched out now! No wonder the editor at ZD didnt catch it.... she/he probably skimmed over it as boilerplate. The fact is that most retailers are very careful who they sell too - they have a responsibility to verify ages and they are liable if they fail in it. They know they can be sued, and they do not want the publicity or the legals fees. Ultimately, I believe its up to the parents to aware of what games their kids are playing, and exert that mystical parental control over those choices. But no one benefits by having sensationalist stories printed -- except ZDNet's bottom line. (these opinions are my own - and subject to change without notice)
Actually, as audiences mature on certain subjects, the film makers are forced to portray the subjects they are covering with increasing realism.
If you saw a TV show in the 70's dealing in any way with medicine, emergency or otherwise, every problem was treated with lactated ringers (basically a saline IV) and a quick trip to the ER. Didnt matter if it was a trauma, or a medical emergency.
But the American consumer has grown smarter, and now a realistic portrayal actually has to include the relatively correct treatments for the conditions being handled on TV (ER, Chicago Hope, etc).
Right now the American public only really comprehends the equivalent of 'lactated ringers' for hacking... given time and more widespread understanding of programming and ocmputers(it will happen!) movie makers and tv show producers will be forced to create more realistic portrayals of situations/problems and their resolutions.
Will they ever be 100% right? I doubt it. Thats the nature of the beast, though, when it comes to entertainment. And thats also very key to remember: movies seek to entertain, not act as a blow by blow instruction set on how to break into the FBI and have your next door neighbor put on the 10 Most Wanted List cause he called the cops on your last party....
You are right on the money with this - especially about how MS does not openly talk about anything unless its gone through Marketing and Legal.
But this isnt something that is limited to just MS. Its a failing of most major corporations today. I worked for years for GE (and there is NO bigger company in the world than it) and that was not only true for communications into and out of the company, but also even within departments and differing areas of responsibility.
The culture that has formed in most companies is a harsh survival of the fittest where only those who can backstab the best and cover their tracks are able to not only survive but thrive. Individual skill and merit tend to fall by the wayside, and no one individual (unless its Jack himself) is allowed to get the limelight.
With the Open Source community, its vastly different. Not only are individual achievements recognized, but they give a sense of ownership and responsibility to the community that utilizes them.
Should we be surprised that a company that is being hurt by one part of the government is lobbying to have that part's budget removed? Not at all -- chemical companies such as Dow and Union Carbide and pharmaceutical companies such as Bohringer Ingleheim do it all the time. But they are far better at maintaining a lower profile that MS has been.
Overall, it definately brings into question how money from companies should be allowed to be spent in support of various political causes. Perhaps a cap of $100 per person or company donation per year would start to reign these forces in.
What will be interesting is how they will handle the changing and sliding concepts/phraseology between languages. Language is more than a verbal construct, its a representation of a culture.
Classic cases of well intentioned translations that lost a little something: Come alive with the Pepsi Generation was released in China as 'Pepsi Brings Back Your Dead Ancestors!'
chevy nova's didnt do too well in Mexico either.. no va... no go
Slashdot Mirror
Was MS expecting for the mainstream media to pick up this story? Were they expecting this kind of reaction - or did they think that the editors at /. would automatically comply with their demands?
/.? They are the most vocal about protecting the First Amendment - especially in David & Goliath situations like this one.
Now, in light of the increasing attention to this story, I wonder what MS's next statement on the issue will be. The more attention it gets, the harder it will be for them to back down - but it will also be all the more necessary for them to do so. This situation can only hurt their current status with the DOJ - especially now that they are in the remedy stage. You just have to know that the judge is watching stuff like this closely.
What I am really waiting for is a reaction out of groups like the ACLU - have they contacted anyone, or are there any indications that they are going to make a support statement for
Dear Microsoft -
Its nice to see that you are continuing to live up to your reputation of attempting to squash any open discussions of your business practices.
Instead of pulling out the DMCA and trying to use it to control, take a look at some of the comments that were made. At the *very* good points that developers and other IT people made about your release. And consider them an independent discussion of your business. The people who were discussing you are in a large part the people who are also your customers, your developers, and the very community with which you want to be having open discussions.
The best thing you could do at this point is to retract your letter, *apologize* and perhaps contact the Slashdot crew about an 'Ask Microsoft' regular feature. You might be surprised at some of our questions -- and who knows, you may surprise us in a *good* way with some of your answers.
Its nice to see that metallica really appreciates their fans.
There is a concert up in Dallas in a few weeks - several bands, including Metallica, are playing. I really wanted to go - I like some of the other headliners. But I will be damned before I let one penny of my money go to support Metallica ever again...
As for anyone who is still making Metallica available through Napster - removed the MP3's. Don't distribute their music. Not because they
are suing, but because they have proven themselves to be unworthy of their fans.
Just my 2 cents...
I have to admit that I was a little surprised (not in a good way) that posts from the whole Hellmouth series were being published.
Then I thought about some of the things that were said - the feelings that were expressed (I had some A/C posts in the threads somewhere)and the experiences shared. I realized that I didn't just want my words heard by the Slashdot community. That's preaching to the converted. There is a whole, wide world out there that has to learn of the impact of growing up a geek can be - and the scars that it leaves.
I am still a little ambivalent about the whole thing -- but I have enough trust in Rob & Co to let them run with this ball and see where it takes us.
I would suggest that the money go to youth outreach groups - ones that could make a difference for younger versions of all of us.
An almost final thought: a little warning would have been nice that this was coming out. As hurtful as some of the responses were - I think a lot of that was out of surprise, and perhaps, a feeling that perhaps Slashdot might be using its community to promote their own agendas. And then again, the whole thing involved JonKatz -- which causes AutoFlame/Trollz.
Final note: I bought the book yesterday. And sent it to my parents. I never could make them understand why my highschool years were hell. Hopefully the thousands of words in this book will paint the picture.
This is mostly referring to ISP's (I know,
backbones *are* mentioned) -
and where I live, the major DSL provider is
SWBell, which is a semi-regulated provider.
(Semi-regulated by the government). Telephone
companies keep track of all sorts of data
about us - all the calls we receive, all of
the calls that we make. What they can do with that information is extremely limited. They are prohibited
from selling or making that information available,
unless its requested by a law enforcement agency.
Would those regulations also apply information
that they may/could gather through a DSL-style
connection? And if they currently do not, should
they be expanded to do so?
The concept is rather scary - as long as a company can make money by infringing on people's
privacy, those companies will have no issue to
continue to track/monitor and sell information.
As much as I am against governmental regulation,
some federal guidelines may be necessary in order
to keep these companies in line.
Just my 2 cents... on a sleepy Friday morning...
Pinkerton is a major company. They have not only devoted hundreds of thousands of dollars into developing this program, but they are also putting their company name behind it.
They are using this to break into a new area - an area where they can police (because they are a security company) without having to employ security guards. Where they can pass on information that they receive, regardless of the source, with no liability at all to them. Whatever service agreement they make with the school system will project them from any legal backlashes.
What it is going to end up taking is a court case - a court case where some poor kid (given the statistics) has had his or her life turned upside down and backwards by some anonymous report because he/she listens to NiN or Ministry, runs a counterstrike server at home, and realizes that black is cool cause it goes with *everything.*
And the above will only happen IF the PARENTS of that kid decide to back him/her and go to bat for them. Many parents are just as scared of the school system as the kid is -- or honestly believe what the school is telling them, because they dont understand their child's motivation either.
The worst part is that once again people are going to have to be hurt by something before they realize its bad - much like a toddler burning their hand on a stove to find out that its hot.
Just my 2 cents.
Should this actually have to go to court,
Amazon will find that it will be hard for
them to get much sympathy from the community at
large.
In fact, they now can accurately be portrayed
as the bad guys on both sides: both limiting
technology & (potentially) illegally appropriating it.
Just my 2 cents...
I think the regulations that we are seeing be attempted are a natural outgrowth of how John Q Public reacts to things it does not comprehend readily. The Internet is still a great unknown for most of the world - and for most parents/corporations/etc. Since they do not understand the dynamics of how it works, they want it broken down into controllable pieces. In other words, forced into a shape that they can understand.
The difference here is that the Internet can and has grown faster than any government could possibly control it - and that has frightened the public more. The only invention in recent history that has has nearly as much of an impact on societal culture is the TV - and even then what was broadcast was controlled by corporations.
With the internet - all that you need a computer and a phone line. Anyone can put their thoughts, ideas, code, whathave you out for the world to see, comment on, and respond to. Its a nearly uncontrollable maelstrom to the eyes of governmental agencies, and they are going to try and get a grip on it any way they can.
Most of their attempts are going to be completely ineffective as the internet crosses both state and country boundaries. Countries are going to have to reach a global consensus on many issues before any true, enforcable laws can actually take place.
IMHO, what we are seeing now are growing pains of governments. Where those growing pains will lead will depend on who ends up with the most influence on the public through the media. Right now that is companies like Mattel and M$, but don't forget that everyone loves the underdog, and that can be leveraged to get Linux and Open Source projects the exposure they need.
People have gotten focused on using chemicals to
solve every day problems.
Have ants in your kitchen? Get Raid.
Have aphids in your garden? Get a pesticide.
But ladybugs EAT aphids.
And woods like cedar and others can keep
pests out of your home. Not necessarily ants -
but other unwelcome guests.
But people would rather buy a canned solution
because marketing and media have pummeled them
into believing that only the most recent new
and improved spray/gel/etc can resolve their
problems.
The complaints were made by two female students in the class to their parents.
Their parents contacted the school and complained to the principal.
What blows my mind on this is that the student made over references to drugs in his essay, and THAT issue was not addressed.
Also interesting is that the father is absent from all of this, and the mother waited 5 days before trying to hire an attorney to get her son out of jail.
There is an apparent lack of parental concern here as well, which makes the whole thing that much more complicated, and scary.
Either way, this kid is messed for life now. He will never again trust an authority figure. If the school had taken a different tack, this kid could have spent the past week in counseling, perhaps getting these issues addressed and handled. Instead, he has been stuck in an ADULT criminal facility, and whatever problems he had before are probably 10x worse now.
Zero tolerance.. what a wonderful thing...
I smell a new service release coming out REALLY SOON now....
Actually, I assume they are scared that they will be sued or be on the wrong end of a lot of very bad press. Thats something no company can afford.
And as for the press - they survive by creating sensationalist stories that keep the mass audience's attention. There are few newspapers/magazines that maintain any sort of integrity these days -- hence the pleasant shock of Jane's recent threads.
Unfortunately, this is common media exploitation. There will always be an incident where a teenager/child/underage personage is able to rent an X, R or NC-17 rated video, cigarettes, alcohol, buy music listed as M only, a video or other game that has clear labelling as not being "appropriate" for that age group. Statistically this will always happen - its a standard bell curve situation where an outlier (an exception) has been exploited as an 'example' of how our youth is being corrupted in one form or another. These stories are so standard that I think only the names of the product and people involved get switched out now! No wonder the editor at ZD didnt catch it.... she/he probably skimmed over it as boilerplate. The fact is that most retailers are very careful who they sell too - they have a responsibility to verify ages and they are liable if they fail in it. They know they can be sued, and they do not want the publicity or the legals fees. Ultimately, I believe its up to the parents to aware of what games their kids are playing, and exert that mystical parental control over those choices. But no one benefits by having sensationalist stories printed -- except ZDNet's bottom line. (these opinions are my own - and subject to change without notice)
Actually, as audiences mature on certain subjects, the film makers are forced to portray the subjects they are covering with increasing realism.
If you saw a TV show in the 70's dealing in any way with medicine, emergency or otherwise, every problem was treated with lactated ringers (basically a saline IV) and a quick trip to the ER. Didnt matter if it was a trauma, or a medical emergency.
But the American consumer has grown smarter, and now a realistic portrayal actually has to include the relatively correct treatments for the conditions being handled on TV (ER, Chicago Hope, etc).
Right now the American public only really comprehends the equivalent of 'lactated ringers' for hacking... given time and more widespread understanding of programming and ocmputers(it will happen!) movie makers and tv show producers will be forced to create more realistic portrayals of situations/problems and their resolutions.
Will they ever be 100% right? I doubt it. Thats the nature of the beast, though, when it comes to entertainment. And thats also very key to remember: movies seek to entertain, not act as a blow by blow instruction set on how to break into the FBI and have your next door neighbor put on the 10 Most Wanted List cause he called the cops on your last party....
try: DJ Kicks: kemistry and storm Planet V compilation (has DJ Die) Photek (modus operendi is very very good) Hope those help
Taking a wild stab at it, I would imagine that #3 is referring to 'sour grapes.'
For those of you *cough* who claim to be too young to catch the reference, its from the Aesop's Fable "The Fox and the Grapes."
Cause back in my day we didnt have any of this namy-pamby dick and jane stuff.. we had aesops fables and we LIKED 'em!
You are right on the money with this - especially about how MS does not openly talk about anything unless its gone through Marketing and Legal.
But this isnt something that is limited to just MS. Its a failing of most major corporations today. I worked for years for GE (and there is NO bigger company in the world than it) and that was not only true for communications into and out of the company, but also even within departments and differing areas of responsibility.
The culture that has formed in most companies is a harsh survival of the fittest where only those who can backstab the best and cover their tracks are able to not only survive but thrive. Individual skill and merit tend to fall by the wayside, and no one individual (unless its Jack himself) is allowed to get the limelight.
With the Open Source community, its vastly different. Not only are individual achievements recognized, but they give a sense of ownership and responsibility to the community that utilizes them.
Should we be surprised that a company that is being hurt by one part of the government is lobbying to have that part's budget removed? Not at all -- chemical companies such as Dow and Union Carbide and pharmaceutical companies such as Bohringer Ingleheim do it all the time. But they are far better at maintaining a lower profile that MS has been.
Overall, it definately brings into question how money from companies should be allowed to be spent in support of various political causes. Perhaps a cap of $100 per person or company donation per year would start to reign these forces in.
What will be interesting is how they will handle the changing and sliding concepts/phraseology between languages. Language is more than a verbal construct, its a representation of a culture.
Classic cases of well intentioned translations that lost a little something:
Come alive with the Pepsi Generation was released in China as 'Pepsi Brings Back Your Dead Ancestors!'
chevy nova's didnt do too well in Mexico either..
no va... no go
It was code talkers in the book and code talkers on the congressional bill that was passed honoring them.
hope that helps =D
(both books are awesome, and if you enjoyed them you may also like Between Silk and Cyanide: A codemaker's war)