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ZD "Objective Reporting" Not Just For Linux
I thought I'd post this in the YRO section for a couple of reasons. One is that it's starting to reverberate, and has generated at least one counter-editorial. But the second is a larger point. Half-Life and similar games are marketed to adults, not children; the 20-30 year old age group purchases almost all of these types of games. Yet attackers want to restrict the sales of these games to anyone on the basis that they're unsuitable for children. The fact that Family PC misjudged the game's release date when making up their article (remember, this had to be written months ago to make it to publication now, they probably forecast that the new game would be on sale by now) makes the attack more obvious, but these sorts of attacks happen all the time from the "save the children" crowd. (Family PC makes most of their income from advertising filtering software and similar snake-oil parental protective measures.) This is how you whip up the troops to go censor the internet or whatever other target you have in mind.
The ZD-type magazines have been fairly good, but the fact that they make up stuff casts doubt on anything they say. Sorry, I'm just not that trusting. I'm sure an 17 yr old COULD go in and buy it without incident, but still, that's not the point - they lied. However, I do agree that 17 year olds playing Half Life, and some other violent games is a bad idea - i've seen a lot of super-violent 17 year olds, and they're a scary sight. Just keep some of the obvious guns and gore away from them if their parents deem fit.
Visit
That said, I hope they get what's coming to them, but I don't think this is the end of any of this sort of propaganda. :/
---
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
Quine "quine?
Ziff-Davis is the most biased source for news/reviews/whatever anywhere. Examples:
:D
Games advertised in EGM get the best reviews every time. Same thing with their other magazines, advertised stuff gets great reviews, guaranteed.
The recent Linux vs. NT security "test." Installing a bloated service pack was OK, but they didn't install 21 RPMs that all together were less than the service pack wasn't done because it was "no enterprise would want to install all that." I wonder how much Microsoft paid them for THAT one.
(etc.)
For truthful reporting, don't buy Ziff-Davis.
emufreak
www.kontek.net/pp
I personally think that it is the parents responsibilty to keep track of their kids activities on the internet, and if the parents aren't capable of doing that, they shouldn't be allowed to whine and place artificial restrictions on the parents that ARE able to monitor their kids. Nuff said.
mov ax, 13h
int 10h
From the Shugashack
Subj: Re: Letter to the editor from Subscriber James Gillespie,North Fort
Date: 10/12/1999 9:31:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: fpcletters@zdnetonebox.com (FamilyPC Letters)
Reply-to: emily_friedlander@zd.com
To: JWGflorida@aol.com
Mr. Gillespie,
Thanks for bringing this error to our attention. It was a typo on an editor's part that through a series of edits,
made it to print. Watch for the correction in our January issue.
Thanks again,
Emily Friedlander
Even though, I must say that is really some shady reporting!
To begin with, I'd like to state that I disagree with the whole game rating system. However, given that it exists, and that there are whiny parents and activists out there, I do feel it is much better than not even selling these games in your walmart or whatever.
The problem is, in order for these people to feel secure, that have to feel that the system is working properly most of the time, and I have to say flat out, that I have never seen a kid getting carded when they bought one of the games marked "mature". Naturally, this will cause people who believe in the system to lose their faith, and they will make an outcry that we should just ban these games outright.
Having said that I think stores like CompUSA have a very real responsibility to watch who the sell games like this to. There are certain things that kids just shouldn't be buying. There'd be WAY more outrage if the game contained sexual content, rather than violent content, but the principles of mature-viewing are the same in both cases.
Just a little food for thought.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
This kind of story is why I don't like seeing "anti-/." stories out there. I'm over 30 and much of that youthful zeal is gone, so I frequently cringe at the loud and uninformed zealotry of some of my fellow /.ers, but usually, I think, their on line ranting is harmless and it is giving a place for a sort of populist rage to vent safely. Meanwhile, almost every thread has a few particles of true insight, information, and wisdom.
I happily put up with the flames to find those insights I would have missed.
One of the things I like about sites for nerds, linuxers, et. al., is the way they (we) subvert the mass media of the industry. The recent PCWeek debacle ("If I had installed the RedHat patches, I would have missed 'Baywatch.'" -- see the story on Linux Today) is a fine example of this. This story is another.
Okay, so individuals (including me) sometimes type faster than we think. So what? We think eventually. And we don't let lies go unchallenged.
Never be afraid to point out a falsehood! ZD deserves very little journalistic respect. This has nothing to do with the perceived OS bias, and everything to do with poor standards of fact checking and a complete lack of journalistic integrity.
Keep your eyes open. Catch them in the act...
I am curious are there any games that can be purtchessed that are AO rated. I mean a little full frontal nudity in quake might be good or artistic to take a break from senseless killing.
...its just that lately it seems to be a bit
scarce at ZD publications. I regularly read
a variety of ZD publications and have lately
come to feel that they are of questionable
value for anything but the broadest news and
announcements. Anchordesk in particular seems
to be taking its cue from the tabloids and
doing its best to bring this...creative...
angle of news reporting to the tech world. More
and more I am leaning towards sources like
Slashdot because they are self correcting. By
their very nature, they tend to adjust towards
reality in the information they present. Since
the content is representative of a large group
of opinions, you get not only a feeling for what
the average opinion is, but also what the counter
points are. It's not perfect, it is prone to
groupthink and filtration in some cases, but I
feel that it provides a better source of news and
views then what we are seeing from many of the
more traditional mediums. At least with the
Slashdot model, the people providing the bulk
of the information (the Slashdot community) are
separate from the people with a financial stake
in having more hits on the site (Andover.net).
IMHO this makes a big difference.
Do they want the age limit changed to 18 (or 21, or 25 or whatever), or do they have proof that the 17-year-old was sent by younger friends/siblings, or what? This makes no sense.
"Somebody exploded a letter-bomb today
Its an interesting time for journalism and journalists right now. Especially for those publications that deal with technology related issues. With the increasing speed of developements, the proliferation of information sources and the raw speed at which a story can propogate and grow on the Internet, journalistic integrity is having a tough time weeding out the fake stuff.
Slashdot itself is most certainly not immune to this effect and has on more than one occasion contributed to the spread of an incorrect of exagerated story, perhaps causing other more traditional media sources to pick up on the story themselves.
Unfortunately at this point in time, we can't have both lightning fast information reporting with 100% accuracy. The two are inversely related.
Hotnutz.com
>However, um, the game isn't even done yet,
>let alone gold or on the shelves."
Hey, it's a good thing time doesn't exist. Now we can get our games before they're made. Excuse me, I'm going down to staples to pick up my copy of Quake 4...
I like FamilyPC but they have a habit of reviewing software that is never actually even released. For example the latest issue (November 1999) includes a list of recommended games that parents might want to buy for their kids. Among the games they recommend is Sierra's Babylon 5 game which was canceled last month. Not only do they recommend it but they put a little graphic next to the recomendation to indicate FamilyPC staff have actually played the game and give it a score of 89 out of 100.
on a list far away in another time, some catholic mother suggested: "Adults should not be allowed to do anything that children aren't" - I didn't even bother to replay that if that were the case, there wouldn't BE any children :))
Chuck
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
I used to buy every computer magazine, and within the last year stopped buying the stupidest of them because they just weren't worth it. I get PCWeek for free, subscribe to Maximum PC, and usually buy Wired and PC Magazine at the newsstand. (Linux journal has been hard to find)
Yesterday I noticed that the newest PC Week and Wired had just come out. I went over to the Magazine rack and picked 'em both up (mostly out of habit). Then I thought for a second and realized that PC Mag is put out by Ziff Davis. I reflected for a second about the many things they've done recently and put the damn thing right back where it was. Last month's issue is most likely the last one I'll ever buy, and I'm a pretty mainstream tech guy. I know I don't matter to them because most of their money is from MS advertising, but I hope that a number of people defect and their distribution numbers go down and hurt 'em just a little. Ziff Davis no longer deserves my hard earned money.
I know, i thought it said "17 year-old" too.
stupid prepositions.
is that now it's in ink (or pixels). Even if retracted, someone somewhere will quote it as another "documented" case of the system not working, so let's make another (presumably even worse) system. Way too often being in print = being the truth for too many.
Yesterday, as I put my vcr on rewind after watching "The Last Broadcast" -(shameless plug for a GREAT movie better than Blair witch project (avail. at Hollywood video)) I caught a ZDNet spokesperson talking about Y2K preparedness and how ZDNet was THE company tracking all the preparedness of everyone and how THEY had all the answers. After this yo-yo said that all big companies have fixed their problems and small companies are the only ones with anything to worry about, I shut it off. I would have to form the opinion that these guys are pretty cheesey, and I wouldn't take much of anything they say as real, or factual. In fact, if they said it- I would probably have to do like I do to all the other articles I read, and prove it.
My dogma ran over your Karma....My Karma's a Greyhound: ugly, but strong. -You may think you know what, but I know who
The first issue, whether FamilyPC conconcted they story, can be solved by producing "Tricia". Tricia presumably has her receipt and the game although not the expansion pack as claimed. It's fair to assume she bought the Half-Life: Game of the Year edition and the game title was an editorial misfire. Cash or not, the receipt will tell.
.plan update all the way through to a second thought. This has nothing to do with Sierra, Valve, or Gearbox; the OpFor pack will be M-rated. CompUSA is responsible but, even so, hasn't broken a law as there isn't a penal enforcement component to the industry agreement. It's a kind of good-faith compromise.
Regardless, I think Mr. Pitchford did have a mental lapse and should have taken his reservations at the top of the
That's the point of the FamilyPC sidebar: legislation with teeth. An argument for media content enforcement indistinguishable from, say, tobacco laws. Why play into it, Randy? Why hold yourself as evidence for your opposition?
Just pointing something out: CompUSA has only a moral obligation to obey the ratings of the game publishers. There is absolutely no law requiring them to verify the age of the purchaser--and likewise, no punishment for selling it to them.
If a 12-year-old walked into CompUSA and bought Half-life, who cares? Shouldn't the parent of that child be responsible? If you think about it, the only people who are really going to get upset about it are the parents. Then they're going to push for laws requiring an ID to purchase games. However, this will just cause the under-age folks to simply pirate the software since they're the best at that sort of thing anyway.
I say let the kids blow the crap out of people online. If they can't do that, they're only left with reality.
--------------------------
-Riskable
-Riskable
"Those who choose proprietary software will pay for their decision!"
First of all if they wanted to make a big deal, why not have a 12 year old? I mean is Comp USA supposed to card everyone? Most bouncers and bartenders know how to spot a fake-id.. Think Comp USA does? I figure they would card very young looking people, like a 12 year old.. but 17.. Who honestly cares.. I find its amazing that they let 16 year olds drive cars, and in some states own guns but they cant buy violent video games? Geez.
I'm concerned that there is not enough manipulation, or that the current manipulation by media/games is missing the point.
We need games and articles that (accurately) depict programmers as sexy, desirable, stable mates to young women.
Too many young, attractive women are bearing children by young, attractive, athletic, stupid males because of the crappy TV shows.
Somehow, this trend needs to be reversed so future "crops" of children have the intellectual skills needed to keep technology moving forward.
Unfortunately, this is common media exploitation. There will always be an incident where a teenager/child/underage personage is able to rent an X, R or NC-17 rated video, cigarettes, alcohol, buy music listed as M only, a video or other game that has clear labelling as not being "appropriate" for that age group. Statistically this will always happen - its a standard bell curve situation where an outlier (an exception) has been exploited as an 'example' of how our youth is being corrupted in one form or another. These stories are so standard that I think only the names of the product and people involved get switched out now! No wonder the editor at ZD didnt catch it.... she/he probably skimmed over it as boilerplate. The fact is that most retailers are very careful who they sell too - they have a responsibility to verify ages and they are liable if they fail in it. They know they can be sued, and they do not want the publicity or the legals fees. Ultimately, I believe its up to the parents to aware of what games their kids are playing, and exert that mystical parental control over those choices. But no one benefits by having sensationalist stories printed -- except ZDNet's bottom line. (these opinions are my own - and subject to change without notice)
Check out Magic Firesheep!
The whole 'typo' issue aside... Mark me Offtopic if you want.
I find the whole idea of restricting access for everyone to anything, because it is not appropriate for a subset of those interested - nauseating. Posting that idea on slashdot is sure to be marked Redundant, fire away.
How are we to protect ourselves from those seeking to protect us from ourselves?
As with the MPAA, TV ratings and music, is it not the parents responsibility to monitor what their kids are into?
[rant]
I realize that there are plenty of ingenious teens and pre-teens out there, able to pull the wool over their parents eyes - I was one of these myself. But if this is the case, than it is a failing of the parents. How can someone who does not put in enough effort to stay aware, raise a child? How can a child from such a home grow up with any sort of respect for authority (boss, law, peers) if they see their own parents as full of ignorance, incompetance and apathy.
[/rant]
Yes, technology moves fast, and working parents have a hard time keeping up with it - while kids have plenty of disposable time. But really, is it so difficult to talk to your kids, peek in on the lucky few that have their own PCs? Stay aware?
Conversely, as a future parent (God willing), after I approve a game for my kids entertainment, I want them to be able to go and get it themselves. I want the decision about what they can and can not do to be made at home, and not in a board room or a court room.
Frankly, the whole politically correct and sue-happy attitude is starting to trouble me. Cinema managers requiring that parents be present, after they permit their kids to see South Park? Clerks policing who can and can't buy a video game? You can't send a kid to school with aspirin, because it is a drug, and we know what school rules say about dealing drugs in school. Five year olds getting thrown out of kindergarten for kissing a classmate on the cheek...
It looks like this (video game availability over the counter) is going to become another instance of parents abdicating control to some organized, rightist organization - just to avoid taking the time to explain to their kids why they feel that blasting people's avatars into oblivion is inappropriate.
Feels like we're reaching critical mass here. But unlike the Japanese uranium workers, I'm starting to see red, not blue.
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
Was it the wrong title? Is half-life also M rated? If it isn't than that would be two mistakes, not one, and I can't believe that they'd make that many mistakes.
Don't get wrong, I'd be willing to believe it was a mistake. I'd like someone to explain this one to me. Go for it.
As Jean Liuse Gassie(I mutilated is name, sorry) the founder of Be said "in america, we can watch people getting there heads blown off, but we can't watch people giving blowjobs" (or somthing like that)
The truth is, there's nothing Wrong with sex at all, what would happen to little Johny if he saw two women making out? Oh, No!! he might become aroused!!! AHHHH.
I mean, come on what does porn actualy *do* to kids? nothing!
I personaly don't think that images of violance do any harm to little kids ether, but some do. However, I really doubt it's less damaging then sexual content.
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
THQ is a half-assed outfit.
Acclaim games will always suck.
Movie-Based Games will always suck (except Goldeneye).
Games based on licenses (spawn, McKids, etc) will suck worse than a broken hoover.
I do have to agree with you on the "Linux VS. NT" test, as they borked it all up. Although I really don't think they were "paid" by micro$haft, they most likely fixed the outcome to stay in microsoft's favor. Considering all the "alternative OS" crap they've been mentioning, Microsoft's gotta be pretty peeved at their little llamas.
For official Magazines, here's my picks:
PC: Maximum PC. they like linux, and are pretty straight-up. They even interviewed Linus Torvalds in their last issue of Boot (when they were still called that).
Linux: either Linux Magazine or Maximum Linux.
PC Gaming: PC Accelerator. good, and funny.
Console Gaming: GameFan. They're also keen on emulation (as seen by www.vintagegaming.com)
DavesClassics is dead. Long live Zophar.net
I think that the Save the Children crowd is the scariest political phenomena of the last few decades.
Personally violence disgusts me and I think there is too much in the media. I particular like gratuitous violence that has little or nothing to do with the plot. So i have made the incredible step of avoiding veiwing such violent content. I have plenty of friends IRL and online that serve as my personal guide to movies and games. The capalert site is also great for this in movies( i also find it hilarious; read the review of Tarzan for a real laugh)
The Save the Children crowd don't seem to think that controlling their own viewing and the veiwing of their children is enough. Itshould be enough for anyone, but they want more. They want access to all content they disapprove of limited for everyone. To meet this goal they use children as an excuse and then try to whip up outrage that children may have access to these things, and thus we must give over our rights to Save the Children.
Articles like the false one in Family PC serve their politial agenda. I don't care for that, but the fact that the magazine is guilty of sloppy editing or outright falshood makes me smile. It highlights the inherent sloppy thinking and deception in this political movement.
If they really want to do something about kids and these games why not make a site like CAPAlert for games? That might give people information that they can use to avoid games they would dissapprove of and even *gasp* monitor their own child's PC.
But they don't want that. They want to control my PC, and yours. I won't let them, I hope you won't either.
--- If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask the question.
THQ is a half-assed outfit.
Acclaim games will always suck.
Movie-Based Games will always suck (except Goldeneye).
Games based on licenses (spawn, McKids, etc) will suck worse than a broken hoover.
I do have to agree with you on the "Linux VS. NT" test, as they borked it all up. Although I really don't think they were "paid" by micro$haft, they most likely fixed the outcome to stay in microsoft's favor. Considering all the "alternative OS" crap they've been mentioning, Microsoft's gotta be pretty peeved at their little llamas.
For official Magazines, here's my picks:
PC: Maximum PC. they like linux, and are pretty straight-up. They even interviewed Linus Torvalds in their last issue of Boot (when they were still called that).
Linux: either Linux Magazine or Maximum Linux.
PC Gaming: PC Accelerator. good, and funny.
Console Gaming: GameFan. They're also keen on emulation (as seen by www.vintagegaming.com)
DavesClassics is dead. Long live Zophar.net
Excuse me, I'm going down to staples to pick up my copy of Quake 4...
Why?
Quake 5 is much cooler anyway. Don't waste your money on 4.
We're going down, in a spiral to the ground
Okay, so, this is either a world class editoral error ("What? You mean that's the wrong game?/It isn't out?") Or some really sad reporting. Noting that no one in the Press is immune to sleazy reporting if pushed, I'm not really stunned.
The point about game devlopers being pushed to adhere to some semblance of standards is well made, generally either make up your own and adhere to em, or the government will do it for you.
I saw a story on some news show last night about how an 18 year old can legally buy a Barret light .50 sniper rifle and purchase armor piercing rounds through mail order. Is Half-life really the primary issue regarding our safety from other peoples' homicidal kids. I suppose we look at things more subtly, "The kid won't know how to use the damn thing if we don't let him play Half-life."
see topic.
That's funny to hear, 'cuz the way i read ZD's crap their bias is against Microsoft products. Either way, their articles are untruthful, unresearched and as far as i'm concerned, unread.
P.S. If they'd put Halflife instead of Halflife: Opposing Force I might believe their lie about a misprint. I've worked for a news organization before and when you mess up you don't acidentally add words, you leave them out.
...I think it's quite possible they made a calculated risk, given that the game would probably be out by now when they wrote the article. They assumed that the reader would find it more interesting because it would be about current games, not some year-old game.
However, in the case that this failed, which it did, they have the backup plan of saying, "Someone mistakingly added the the 'opposing forces', assuming it was the full title of Half-Life."
It's pretty important in journalism to get the scoop (for news items) and also to be current in the 'information' you present. I wouldn't put this kind of thing above anyone.
It was a TV show. MSNBC? I think the "light" in the name is an attempt to differentiate it from the big browning machine guns. The real focus of the story was terrorism. They talked about being able to shoot down helicopters and hitting stuff in the white house from the Washington monument. You could plink the prez's helo from anywhere in D.C. I wonder how he sleeps at night. Anyway, how am I to know that the whole story wasn't just another attempt to be up-to-date and relevant? (Just like the Family Computing article). They may have just assumed that you could get your hands on one of those by the time the story aired ;)
The argument I've always seen for the labeling of software (and music, etc.) when it's first proposed is that it will simply be a tool for parents to decide what to buy for their children. The reasonable person then says "well, that's reasonable" and they go ahead and do it.
Now, apparently, the game ratings need to be followed by the store clerks, who, quite often, wouldn't be old enough to buy the games themselves.
What? Where did that come from? Is it a voluntary bit of information or a hard and fast rule? Are they looking to provide parents some control over their children, or are they trying to control everyone?
I can tell you that the first time someone cards me when trying to buy a video game, I'm going to kill everyone in the store. I'll kill all the children in the store TWICE.
So in order to protect the children from my violent rampage, lawmakers best not make it a legal requirement to check ID for the purchace of a video game. Think of the children!
-LF
Please note: This article contains sarcasm.
I agree. Making these kinds of rules (and, as I'm sure they hope, laws) is just a way of avoiding responsibility. Sure parents can't know everything their children are doing, but they still feel the SYSTEM should take care of their children for them. "There should be laws! I shouldn't have to worry about what my kid is doing all the time..." It really doesn't make a lot sense, but it sells magazines and it drives the press. Print an article like that and a thousand parents jump on it - "One less thing for me to worry about. I agree with that."
Hate to bring up Columbine, but its not the video games or the internet that caused that. It's the parents assuming the Video Game Rating System would take care of things and that they had nothing to worry about, and there was no further need to pay attention to their kids.
And whose daughter was that they sent in? The writer's daughter? "Honey, see if they'll let you buy this game?" If you don't want your kids to buy these games, the last thing you do is send them in to buy them, unless of course its just to write a story...
Well, not really. But basically I'm more surprised when journalists get something right, not when they get it wrong. Think how polluted your kids minds are with all the sensationalist crap the media imposes on them. Relentless, non-stop past 'em on the walls, spam them on every webpage and on every media circuit ads hurt kids more than any video game will. Journalists are just there to sell the sensation to get the ad dollars in. Any preachyness on their part to truth and integrity is crap. It's just another form of advertisment, sell themselves to the ad makers who are handing out the bucks. Welcome to the 21st century.
I mean, the dang things are nearly impossible to use correctly without training, and they cost 5K!
No psycho is going to spend 5K on a gun that only holds a few rounds and can't be accurately aimed without lying down and looking through a scope.
Nope, they're gonna want a TEC-9 or the like, which just proves that they're morons. And any 18yr old that has 5K will spend it on a car WAY before they buy sniper rifles that take 15 minutes to assemble before use . . .
*I've* never seen Lara Croft sit down at a keyboard.
I'm pretty sure I saw her using a laptop during one of those inter-level movies. Uh, not that I've memorized everything she does, mind you.
I have played Half-life, Doom, Quake, Duke3d, etc. for years and I haven't been brainwashed. Now shut the f**k up before I kick your a** you liberal censoring p***y b***h. People like you should be shot with a BFG9000 at point-blank range.
The .plan file now gives a HTTP Error 403 - Forbidden. /.ed or did someone put the pressure on to pull it?
We're they tired of being
So have I. In Britain we call them "the army". You can sign up at 16. So what's the fuss over 18-rated games when you can start killing for real two years younger?
Today's BBC story about the UK's "child soldiers"
Heck, in the UK you can leave school and get married at 16- if your parents agree. At least with the army you get out after 3 years of non-stop violence...
--
Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
Forget Bin Laden's expensive camps in the Afghani highlands. Young terrorists can hone their sniper skills to a razor's edge on the latest in VR training devices: Half-Life,Opfor.
You completely missed the point, my fellow AC'er.
The issue is, people freak over a 17 year old buying Half Life and they're OK with 18 yr olds buying large sniper rifles?
That is rather ridiculous. Which would YOU want in the hands of a warped mind? *grin*
What a timely comment! I just finished Slant by Greg Bear last night, and one of my favorite quotes was something like "Would you rather have your child watch real sex or fake violence?" (horribly paraphrased). Of course, in the book this question actually made senators withdraw censorship legislation, but we can hope, right?
This is all culled from the Softbank web site, at http://www.softbank.co.jp/. Read on and be frightened:
For more, see these news releases:
There may be objective news sources (I don't know), but ZD is not one of them.
--Bantik
Ruby on Rails resources and more at idolhands.com
I certainly understand your willingness to compete with women if they're 100% of your solution set; that just creates more of a "target-rich environment", as Maverick was wont to say in "Top Gun".
But the bi girls will like you better if you don't chase the guys away. If you wanna ignore half the race as playmates, that's *your* problem :-)
-=Maggie Leber=-
*I've* never seen Lara Croft sit down at a keyboard.
I'm pretty sure I saw her using a laptop during one of those inter-level movies.
At the end of the first level of TR2. (Disclaimer: I just finished the level yesterday, so it's fresh in my mind)
np: King Crimson "In The Court Of The Crimson King"
150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for slashdot.sig (129323052 bytes).
what a suprise -- a member of a group that yaps constantly about hate spouts words of hate herself.
Yep. Well, we'll let you know when we are yapping about whining to let you have chance at that one too.
I'm not 17, but I was 3 years ago. Whats with the BS about 17 year olds too young to play quake? I guess you all are like, "well 17 year olds can't play but its cool for 18 year olds to play." What kind of BS is that? The age difference between 17 and 18 is ONE year, less then that if its the day before their 18th birthday. When you age from 17 to 18 on your birthday, you don't change and turn around in one day. Whats the difference between a 17 and an 18 year old playing half life? 1 Year and not much else maturity wise. When I was 17 I acted 18 and when I was 18 I acted 17, wanna know how thats possible? Because 17 and 18 year olds act just the same.
Mark me Offtopic if you want.
Ah, that old trick. Nothing is surer to get you marked up than to request being marked down. Go ahead and mark this as flamebait, moderators! You moderators suck! I dare you to mark this down!
No, wait.. -2, argh!!! Glub, blub, blop...
The main focus of the pro-ratings enforcement editor seems to be that "industry spokespeople" are merely enforcing an agreed upon ratings system. For those that recall, when the ratings system was first put in place, it was explicitly mentioned that it would not be used to restrict the purchase of games.
Funny how these things work. Ratings are a vehicle that provide an easy target for censorship. Once you can get sales restricted to age groups, none of the major publishers and game company VCs will put money towards a game that isn't rated G. The vast majority of small shops that produce real games (aka games with mature content) will fold or be forced to sell out. It's a very simple process and it's worked before with motion pictures.
Particularly disturbing is the implication that the industry spokespeople actually exist and that they represent the wishes of the consumer and the development shops. When was the last time you saw all the gaming companies agree on something?
Kill the censors, before they make everything "kid safe".
Unbreakable toys can be used to break other toys.
They have lots of nice plausible deniability in that they can simply call it a typo and claim it was some other version of Half Life.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
The show had someone shooting holes through safes and manhole covers. We all know that men are filled with glee when we have the power to penetrate. Ask any feminist. I believe any hormone soaked male would pay 5k to have the ability to push his penis through a manhole cover or the wall of a safe. Hence, a car is no contest against the ultimate phallic extension: .50 sniper rifle! Weee!
It's not that the parents need to monitor *every* single thing the child is doing (Gawd, that'd be horrible! I *hated* being watched over the shoulder)
My brother (who, funnily, is 17 and went through his share of violent games and turned out fairly normal other than having too much passion for C++..) shares the same view as I do. We hate parental monitoring not because we hate our parents, but because the idea is stifling.
I think the parental duty needs to reach deeper. They need to firsthand establish a value system in their kids where the kids will "learn" and "think" for themselves and come to the conclusion that "hey this is not a good idea". With that rooted, I think the parents will have much better time dealing with the kids. My parents don't know all the games we played, but we, in turn, never got into the gore-fest and porn-littered games. It just never appealed to us. They already know that we play "violent" games but that we take take full responsibility for our actions. Establishing that kind of value is more important than freaking out over one kid buying a M rated game.
Sorry for this severely off-topic post. I couldn't resist.
Sure, they might still buy armor-piercing rounds, but they'd be far more likely to purchase a weapon which could be conveniently and safely hidden inside their letterman's jacket.
However, you can't learn how to use any kind of weapon by playing Half-life on your computer. To suggest that is to delude one's self. It takes hands-on experience to learn how to load the weapon, release the safety, aim and pull the trigger.
Generally speaking, while video games may lead to eyestrain and repetitive motion disorders, they are not deadly weapons.
who is that guy?
what a jerk!
-I go to Rice, so figure out my email address
then you're just as bad off as the average Family PC reader. Slashdot is just like every other news source - you don't see all the sides. Granted, Slashdot has the *potential* to be a relatively unbiased source due to the commenting system, etc. but it attracts a certain type of (mostly) like-minded people that usually take one side of an issue and laugh about it. It's not a heterogeneous community at all, really. I mean, having Bill Gates of Borg as the Microsoft icon is clue #1 that there's a message on Slashdot, that there's a bias. Let's not kid ourselves.
They lied. Pure and simple.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
If you read the rest of todays BluesNews you'll see that the finger script is broken.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Obviously, the innumerable hard fought battles for the freedom of speech/creativity will never be enough. If you're inclined to do something, write them some mail, inform the public, and keep up their reputation as a lousy news source. Maybe, they might learn the lesson of the Amish - do their moralistic thing without pushing it the the rest of the world like a hard-up crack dealer.
Maybe they should have named it PC(polcorrect) Family instead.
I wouldn't consider myself a pacifist, but i certainly dont beleive that violence is the way to solve a problem.
I have been playing video games religeoisly (sorry bout the spelling) since DOOM, and have never once settled for a censored or "de-gored" version. I have even played Carmageddon I and II all the way to the end, and so have many of my friends. yet none of us are violent.
i guess what i am trying to say is, computer games arent (for me at least, and many others i'm sure) a way for us to take out our violent urges, and their certainly not a way for us to learn about violence. they are simply something to do! and, if you have ever played a game (violent or not) they can be fun, and a constructive use of time, or would you rather that i stop playing violent games, and take my boredom out on the city streets, join a gang and such?
if a kid is violent, and they play computer games, most of the time it isn't going to be because of the games, look to the parents instead, and leave us adolescent gamers alone, for god's sake!
...then when some nut job goes and blows away a dozen of his classmates or co-workers, there could be legal action that would, 1) identify all of the possible responsible parties, 2) assign a percentage of blame to each party, 3) initiate civil litigation against each. Then we would have more actions where the accused would argue, 1) why they aren't responsible, 2) why the percentage of blame is wrong, 3) counter-sue.
Think of the lawyers billable hours on that ( smell that? that's sarcasm).
Sorry about the rant, but give me a break. Assigning blame for civil actions really misses the point.
DO NOT LEAVE IT IS NOT REAL
That darn Bill of Rights -- standing in the way of progress. 18 year olds were adults last I checked. What other God given rights do you support suppressing? I will own a fscking tank if I so please, as long as I operate it within the limits of the law.
Unbelievable. According to their own press
release in 96', Softbank(owner of ZD)was to
become an advertising mouthpiece for Microsoft
products. My jaw hit the floor awhile ago and it's
still there.
Kudos to Bantik for this most excellent bit of
information.
An enire ******* publishing company for *******
propaganda. *gropes floor to find jaw*.
Has the world come to this, folks? Is it more
common than this? Please follow up if there are
more examples of this with other companies.
everything is in this damn country is so protective. no alcohol 18 is an adult. All these age requirements just show how stupid the Americans are (sorry, I generally like being here, but there are many cases where you could learn something). For example: RESPONSIBILITY. Americans just aren't capable of having responsibility themselves or teach it to their children. Everything is delegated to the lawmakers and lawsuits. But, you won't understand it anyway...
Apart from the obvious lies told by Family PC (i am assuming they are lying, unless they have some really cool time travel equipment... hey it IS a possibility). And doesn't this just convey so many values about morality, it's okay to lie kiddies, but for the love of all things sacred don't play any game that could be concidered VIOLENT.
What is wrong with a girl who is about 17 (again I assume because I can find no reference to her exact age) buying a game that is 17+. Isn't this the same as a couple of 17 yr old guys sneaking into an R18+ movie? Is it really up to the clerks to ask for ID. ("Hey you with the Quake beta, drop the box and show us some ID.")
If Parents really had a problem with there kids playing violent games they wouldn't let them. I remember getting Wolfenstien 3D and my folks telling me flat out, you will not play that game. I didn't play the game.
I know, when I was 15/16 I could walk into the video store and get MA/R movies without any hassle. Clerks just don't care, if the parents have a problem let them deal with it, it is not down the stores to stop people buying.
Then the laws get passed, but only to get their foot into the congressional door and into the tiny space between the ears of the public. Nothing wrong with ratings right? Wrong. Its just a gateway into passing the ideal that lives deep in their heart of hearts, what they don't ever talk about in public - Complete Censorship of anything the moral-masters of this country don't like.
This is just another means to thier final end. Now they're playing the 'this doesn't work either' card. Hey it was YOUR idea, not the game-playing public's.
Yeah, I'm thinking about the children, thinking how pissed they're gonna be after we take away all their games.
One was used to rob a Wells-Fargo armored car not too long ago. Made some neat looking holes in it.
Why? It used to have some substance, now all ya get is nethype done is a women's mag style, eg 6 ways to increase your surfing speed. 12 gadgets you can't live without. Shopping for a car with Jesse. Why your next house will be digital. How to snoop on employees better. Shopping for a house with Jesse. 7 rules for sharp websites. % reasons Microsoft rules. $ pitfalls facing Linuxeers. Shopping for T-1 connections with Jesse.
Wow, that rant came out of nowhere. Anyway, at least you asserted yourself and fed your ego. Hope you feel better because of it.
Hands in my pocket
For those who have forgotten how to use the finger command: (randyp@gearboxsoftware.com is the address)
/home/randyp Shell: /bin/bash
.plan update, but I couldn't
[gearboxsoftware.com]
Login: randyp Name: Randy Pitchford
Directory:
Last login Thu Oct 7 11:29 (CDT) on ttyp0 from randy
No mail.
Project:
Half-Life: Opposing Force
Plan:
********
10/17/99
This is something I don't like to do in a
just ignore this one...
In the November '99 issue of Family PC (Ziff/Davis) on page 121 there's
a sidebar titled "Buyer Beware". This article once again makes a case
against the sales of the type of games that our community is built around.
Here's the quote which really disturbs me:
>>>
> Family PC (Ziff/Davis), Nov. '99, Page 121
>>>
> CompUSA
>
> As soon as we arrived in the games section, Half Life: Opposing Forces
> [sic] (Sierra Studios, www.sierrastudios.com) hit us square in the jaw.
> This shoot-em-up war game received an M rating from the Entertainment
> Software Rating Board (www.esrb.com), meaning that it's designed for
> ages 17 and older. With cash in hand, Tricia walked up to the checkout
> line and bought the software--no questions asked. In fact, the only glitch
> in her purchase came when the cash register needed a new roll of receipt
> tape. Later, at the Customer Service desk, we played the role of
> incredulous parent and complained that nobody questioned Tricia's purchase.
>>>
What I'd like to know is this: How did "Tricia" purchase a copy of our
game (Half-Life: Opposing Force) when it isn't even on the shelves yet?
It's must be an invention of Family PC magazine - an invention designed
to make a negative association with the games we love and to point the
finger at the business of entertainment software design and sales.
The article goes on to jab at Xatrix Entertainment, Software Etc,
Beyond.com and the South Park game after which it appeals to "Mr. President"
for "another press conference." Presumably the objective of the writer
is to influence public policy in ways potentially bad for our industry.
Does anyone know how the law protects a company like Gearbox Software
from the press making such an injurious fabrication with malicious intent?
I am very bothered that something like this can appear in a high-volume
magazine like Family PC from a huge publisher like Ziff/Davis.
I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has some legal experience
with this sort of thing. Could this be considered libelous?
I would also be interested in hearing from someone with CompUSA on how
they might react to this since their sales methods are the primary
target of this article's attack.
-DuvalMagic
+++
R. Pitchford
Game Dev. Axioms
Development:
- Don't automatically shun something just because it's easy. Purists in
this business are only hurting themselves. If a cheap tool or hack trick
gets the job done, the job is still done and end users will often be
just as satisfied with the end result.
+++
I can't see many people(me included) carrying it very far either. those things are very very heavy.
A parents responsibility with their kids is to teach them what should and shouldn't be done in society not to regulate them until they become adults. Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you will feed him for his lifetime. *This is misquoted but still has the same meaning* The ratings system has been both a blessing and a curse since it's start. Parents now have the ability to quickly sum up the age level that a child should be before playing the video games without having to scrutinize over the print and pictures on the box. However there are parents who look at the ratings as an exact age for kids to be before they can rent it. This is an example of a parent not taking the responsibility that they need to. Do the people at the game rating companies know how grown up their kids are and what they can handle? As any of us who were picked on in school can tell you people mature at different rates and a parents role is not to lazily follow a helpful guideline but to use that guideline to decide if their children are mature enough to handle it. After working at a video store for three years I've watched enough parents not even look at a box for a game and just ask the kid for the rating to know that the ratings are being misinterpreted. Our policy on renting M games and R movies to minors is that it is completely up to the account holder. A person must be 18 to open a account and can restrict the rentals of those people on the account who are under 18 but also have complete freedom to give their kids permission to rent anything from Barney to Red Shoe Diaries (very steamy Showtime productions). If the Government listens to the Save the Children people and forces us to refuse rentals to a minor even with parent permission then I shall quit on that day as it will turn us workers into nothing more than babysitters. Did an under 17 year old walk into a store and buy an M rated game without getting carded? I am sure that it has happened before and will happen again no matter what the government says or does about it. Take a stroll around any college campus and look at all the people under 21 who have beer. The law sure worked good in that position, why would it work any better with video games. The main question is why are us /.ers getting so wound up over what could have easily been a typo? Even if that wasn't a typo and the story was fabricated it still doesn't remove the fact that I could take my 15 year old sister to the local software store and have her buy me a copy of Unreal, Quake 2 and the latest Duke Nukem game. An intriguing thought to end the message: How well do you think the kids who's parents act in the Save the Children groups act? Do you think that even the parents who go on spouting their ideals hold them up to their own children? Go watch "What about bob" and see how well the psychiatrist (Richard Dryfuss) handles his own kids and life.
I apologize for the lack of returns and /. and I forgot
paragraphs in the previous message as this
was my first message posted on
to test it first.
I havent seen a game out there yet that contains more violence/gore than can be caught on non-premium cable tv (the grand babysitter). The games are just more interactive.
penguinicide... when jumping out a window just won't do.
When I was 17, 2 years ago in fact, I didn't kill anyone.
In fact, I never even tried. See, I knew the difference between real and pretend.
Didn't Mr. Rogers cover that subject well enough?
>>>Yet attackers want to restrict the sales of these games to anyone on the basis that they're unsuitable for children.
Who said ANYTHING about restricting sales for everyone? Even the most outspoken video game opponents (Sen. Lieberwhatever...) have only pushed for blocking *minors'* access to certain games. They *should* treat the game ratings as you would a movie rating - children under 17 (supposedly) can't get into an R-rated movie without an adult. Why should it be any different with video games?
A brief search of the web returns only one recent armored car robbery, involving a .223 caliber rifle, not the .50 caliber Barrett. Unless you can provide a citation proving your claim, I have to conclude you're mistaken. -- Anonymous (Skeptical!) Coward