Of course if there was no fragile meat bags on board, we wouldn't need all these systems that keep breaking down in the first place. And if the few remaining systems did break down, well it won't kill anyone either.
I think you where misinformed. H2O2 is not really a good fuel on its own. Too heavy for starters for so little energy. But its less safe mostly because its also unstable.
Like all mono propellants, it can break down to a more stable less energetic configuration without the need of getting mixed with anything. So say the fuel tank wasn't cleaned properly? Well we get H202 decomposition which liberates O2 and heat. Now its hotter and it decomposes faster, which produces more heat and faster decomposition.... I have personally seen this with my own monopropellant rocket.
Can you handle H202 safely? Yes. But you can also do that just fine with LH2 with the added benefit its pretty safe till you mix it with oxygen, and its has much more energy per kg. An important feature for long endurance flights.
Radiating heat goes to the 4th power. So at 273K (0C) a panel in space radiates 314 watts per m2. However at 4K we radiate a mere 14.5 micro watts. So to radiate 1 watt we would need a square panel 262 meters a side (69000m2). Even worse space is radiating the same amount of heat back at you. So you in fact would not get rid of any heat. In fact i think this particular system needed to be colder than 4K. So no passive system can do it.
And that has a totally different neutron economy to a LFTR. 2.3 neutrons, minus one is tight. Every detail matters. Like what trace isotopes you have in the construction materials.
Breeding ratio for Th *fuel* is totally relevant. For every mole of 233U burnt, you need to convert at least a mole of 232Th to 233Pa. Otherwise you need Uranium in there somewhere. And yes this is considered part of the fuel cycle. As in current PWR mostly use a once through fuel cycle. That is what everyone calls it. Because that what it is. Breeders is specifically defined as a reactor that breeds as much or more fuel than it burns.
233Pa removal helps with the neutron economy. Since your reactor is not infinite in size, and since there are other things that absorb neutrons and that neutron reflectors are not 100%. Keeping enough neutrons around to sustain fission is not as straight forward as it looks. When you need to ensure that at least one of these 2.3 neutrons are absorb by 232Th, its gets much harder. Given that 233Pa has a much higher neutron absorption cross section and that 234Pa is quite undesirable due to the creation of 234U, a nasty gamma emitter. It is constantly suggested to remove 233Pa in situ to solve some of the serious problems that 232Th cycles have.
I am amazed at the profound misconceptions that a couple of naysayers have been able to propagate..
Oh please. The last LFTR post a while back was "the waste is so safe you can eat it". There is a prevailing belief that LFTR are magic and stop nuclear being nuclear. Its wrong.
Also, your graphite red herring is not only irrelevant, but false. This has been studied, and graphite does not burn in air.
Tell that to the people directly involved with Chernobyl. You seem to have forgotten some basic chemistry, that is reaction rates, and even what reactions happens, are temperature dependent.
No concern to you, is not the same as not a concern. These concerns where raised/pointed out in scientific papers on LFTR.
but I agree, this is the wrong way to go about minimising it's use and to screw up active experiments like this could be quite dangerous and could do more harm if infected animals escape and release manufactured or natural diseases into the reach of wild populations.
You have been watching too many movies. The security protocols that you need to have anything like this makes it so ridiculously expensive that there are not really any independent facilities like that at any university in the world. ie the few that have them, have them in combination with large hospitals or someone like the CDC. And there are just a handful world wide.
Does anyone think these funded projects will not get funding and a new set of animals to test on again?
In this case, probably. Its almost certainly someones PhD thesis down the toilet. Getting ethics approval for a new set of experiments will still take the months/years that it often can. Mixing up labels will mean that significant time spent producing the right F1/F2 lines will take more time.
Remember this was a university where what the experiments are is fairly public, hence why they knew to go there. Not some big pharma secret animal testing lab.
What about:
- i am against animal cruelty so all experimentation and ALL EXPERIMENTS' results must be public.
For university research, this is the case. Well paywalls often are there. But that is changing. Slowly.
Also to do these experiments you need to get ethics approval and journals often require proof of this as well nowdays, but i don't know if these are publicly available generally. A few colleagues have complained that it is often much harder to get approval for animals than for Homo sapiens, because they can't consent to the experiment. Even for things as simple as touch screen cognitive experiments.
Some article about the hydrogen economy was discussing the wows of getting something so dangerous accepted for cars. They did point out that gasoline would probably never pass safety concerns today.
LFTR still have decay heat. If your systems fail, passive or otherwise, because of say a 12 meter wall of water. It will have the same problems. Worse in fact, since you need a moderator which is typically graphite. That burns nicely when exposed to air. The Fluoride salts also react with water to form hydrogen and acids. Any core breach is just as bad. And no its not different because the core is suppose to be melted. Decay heat will get it hot enough to melt through the containment vessels.
The long and the short of it is that if your backup cooling systems don't work, your in a world of pain. *All* fission based nuclear reactors suffer from the fact that there is no "instant off" switch. LFTR or otherwise. Its not magic. Though many here seem to think they are.
They have already been built long ago, and all of the fundamental concepts have been proven.
Incorrect. There has never been any breeding. Th fuel cycles need breeding and thus a breeding ratio of 1 or better. This has never been done and numerically looks pretty tight. So tight that in situ reprocessing is typically proposed to remove the 233Pa which acts as a neutron poison. This also has never been done or shown to work in any way. These things would be considered a pretty fundamental part of a LFTR.
Plus, after Leela banged Zap Brannigan, again, willfully...something was just lost.
Did anyone here actually watch the first seasons? That was like the first time She did it. Zap and Amy? Same thing, especially since Amy sleeps with everything. The kind of jokes you are complaining about was what i watched for. From season 1. I re watch them quite regularly and the last season does not stand out as worse or better for that matter. But is well just futurama.
Seriously a lot of people are complaining that the last season did/didn't do this or that. And none of these things are true of the previous seasons either.
I don't really think the newer seasons developed the characters...
Seriously? Well you know its Futurama right, not some other crap TV show that is "deep character development" rubbish, which is really just code for everyone ends up sleeping with everyone eventually. I think you need to change channels.
An example that come to mind is Amy showing up dressed in bondage gear...basically just for the purposes of portraying a scantily-clad woman for a few seconds.
You seem to be implying that there is something wrong with that?
Its also kind of the running gag/thing with Amy from the day she started working with the planet express.
The eyePhone episode is one of the best IMO. Do you remember the first season properly? What where you expecting? Seriously i think a lot of critics know what they think of the "new" stuff long before they see it.
Slashdot Mirror
Of course if there was no fragile meat bags on board, we wouldn't need all these systems that keep breaking down in the first place. And if the few remaining systems did break down, well it won't kill anyone either.
You know a taser would probably work just as well. And less likely to kill yourself in a accident.
I think you where misinformed. H2O2 is not really a good fuel on its own. Too heavy for starters for so little energy. But its less safe mostly because its also unstable.
Like all mono propellants, it can break down to a more stable less energetic configuration without the need of getting mixed with anything. So say the fuel tank wasn't cleaned properly? Well we get H202 decomposition which liberates O2 and heat. Now its hotter and it decomposes faster, which produces more heat and faster decomposition.... I have personally seen this with my own monopropellant rocket.
Can you handle H202 safely? Yes. But you can also do that just fine with LH2 with the added benefit its pretty safe till you mix it with oxygen, and its has much more energy per kg. An important feature for long endurance flights.
In NZ in the 60's. A guy made a .22 in metal work, and then shot the principal.
/. was always off the cliff. You just old enough to notice now.
Radiating heat goes to the 4th power. So at 273K (0C) a panel in space radiates 314 watts per m2. However at 4K we radiate a mere 14.5 micro watts. So to radiate 1 watt we would need a square panel 262 meters a side (69000m2). Even worse space is radiating the same amount of heat back at you. So you in fact would not get rid of any heat. In fact i think this particular system needed to be colder than 4K. So no passive system can do it.
On all my linux installs rsync uses ssh by default. rsh hasn't been installed on anything in years. Is it even included in distributions anymore?
And that has a totally different neutron economy to a LFTR. 2.3 neutrons, minus one is tight. Every detail matters. Like what trace isotopes you have in the construction materials.
233Pa removal helps with the neutron economy. Since your reactor is not infinite in size, and since there are other things that absorb neutrons and that neutron reflectors are not 100%. Keeping enough neutrons around to sustain fission is not as straight forward as it looks. When you need to ensure that at least one of these 2.3 neutrons are absorb by 232Th, its gets much harder. Given that 233Pa has a much higher neutron absorption cross section and that 234Pa is quite undesirable due to the creation of 234U, a nasty gamma emitter. It is constantly suggested to remove 233Pa in situ to solve some of the serious problems that 232Th cycles have.
I am amazed at the profound misconceptions that a couple of naysayers have been able to propagate..
Oh please. The last LFTR post a while back was "the waste is so safe you can eat it". There is a prevailing belief that LFTR are magic and stop nuclear being nuclear. Its wrong.
Also, your graphite red herring is not only irrelevant, but false. This has been studied, and graphite does not burn in air.
Tell that to the people directly involved with Chernobyl. You seem to have forgotten some basic chemistry, that is reaction rates, and even what reactions happens, are temperature dependent.
No concern to you, is not the same as not a concern. These concerns where raised/pointed out in scientific papers on LFTR.
but I agree, this is the wrong way to go about minimising it's use and to screw up active experiments like this could be quite dangerous and could do more harm if infected animals escape and release manufactured or natural diseases into the reach of wild populations.
You have been watching too many movies. The security protocols that you need to have anything like this makes it so ridiculously expensive that there are not really any independent facilities like that at any university in the world. ie the few that have them, have them in combination with large hospitals or someone like the CDC. And there are just a handful world wide.
Does anyone think these funded projects will not get funding and a new set of animals to test on again?
In this case, probably. Its almost certainly someones PhD thesis down the toilet. Getting ethics approval for a new set of experiments will still take the months/years that it often can. Mixing up labels will mean that significant time spent producing the right F1/F2 lines will take more time.
Remember this was a university where what the experiments are is fairly public, hence why they knew to go there. Not some big pharma secret animal testing lab.
What about: - i am against animal cruelty so all experimentation and ALL EXPERIMENTS' results must be public.
For university research, this is the case. Well paywalls often are there. But that is changing. Slowly.
Also to do these experiments you need to get ethics approval and journals often require proof of this as well nowdays, but i don't know if these are publicly available generally. A few colleagues have complained that it is often much harder to get approval for animals than for Homo sapiens, because they can't consent to the experiment. Even for things as simple as touch screen cognitive experiments.
Its practically legally required. The last animal that the modern medicine is tested on is Homo sapiens of course.
Some article about the hydrogen economy was discussing the wows of getting something so dangerous accepted for cars. They did point out that gasoline would probably never pass safety concerns today.
Citations required.
I WOULD NOT TRADE DURING A PANIC.
That's what everyone says, until they panic.
What do you think was happening in the previous decades? Hint. Same *%&$ different decade.
LFTR still have decay heat. If your systems fail, passive or otherwise, because of say a 12 meter wall of water. It will have the same problems. Worse in fact, since you need a moderator which is typically graphite. That burns nicely when exposed to air. The Fluoride salts also react with water to form hydrogen and acids. Any core breach is just as bad. And no its not different because the core is suppose to be melted. Decay heat will get it hot enough to melt through the containment vessels.
The long and the short of it is that if your backup cooling systems don't work, your in a world of pain. *All* fission based nuclear reactors suffer from the fact that there is no "instant off" switch. LFTR or otherwise. Its not magic. Though many here seem to think they are.
They have already been built long ago, and all of the fundamental concepts have been proven.
Incorrect. There has never been any breeding. Th fuel cycles need breeding and thus a breeding ratio of 1 or better. This has never been done and numerically looks pretty tight. So tight that in situ reprocessing is typically proposed to remove the 233Pa which acts as a neutron poison. This also has never been done or shown to work in any way. These things would be considered a pretty fundamental part of a LFTR.
Plus, after Leela banged Zap Brannigan, again, willfully...something was just lost.
Did anyone here actually watch the first seasons? That was like the first time She did it. Zap and Amy? Same thing, especially since Amy sleeps with everything. The kind of jokes you are complaining about was what i watched for. From season 1. I re watch them quite regularly and the last season does not stand out as worse or better for that matter. But is well just futurama.
Seriously a lot of people are complaining that the last season did/didn't do this or that. And none of these things are true of the previous seasons either.
I don't really think the newer seasons developed the characters...
Seriously? Well you know its Futurama right, not some other crap TV show that is "deep character development" rubbish, which is really just code for everyone ends up sleeping with everyone eventually. I think you need to change channels.
An example that come to mind is Amy showing up dressed in bondage gear...basically just for the purposes of portraying a scantily-clad woman for a few seconds.
You seem to be implying that there is something wrong with that?
Its also kind of the running gag/thing with Amy from the day she started working with the planet express.
The eyePhone episode is one of the best IMO. Do you remember the first season properly? What where you expecting? Seriously i think a lot of critics know what they think of the "new" stuff long before they see it.
But wait... won't the market fix it!