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Again you completely ignore every single thing I wrote. Are ANY of my facts untrue? Do you see the gobs of Linux boxes in the B&M stores? If every single store in the fucking USA wouldn't touch your product with a 20 foot barge pole, even though it is cheaper than the alternatives, you really should be looking in the mirror at what you are doing wrong.

And funny you should mention FSF, which of course is headed up by RMS, the most left wing radical zealot on the face of the planet. do you know what "PC" he runs? I do, it is a Loongson Netbook, because it is the ONLY machine on the entire planet that will meet his radical idea of "free", why do you people still take advice from that nut? Why do you think Linus won't release the kernel under GPL V3? Because he has become too radical for even Linus, that's why.

As for how long to install Office and other apps? About a half hour, usually less. Between Ninite and Almzea (which says it is for unattended XP discs but is actually much better at making unattended software installers) I can click a button and walk away, come back in a hour it is ready for pick up. Add in the 25 minutes or so for an unattended Windows installation I can easily whip off 4 or 5 in a day without having to even rush. Thanks to the fact that in all Windows versions from SP3 up you can put in the key after install it really is a joke how easy it is.

Now here is a question for you? How much time did you waste researching products before purchase? 5 hours? 6? And when was the last time you fired up bash...hmmm? Last month? Last week? Today? the reason I bring those up is to point out the stupid hoops Linux users have deluded themselves into jumping for "free is for freedom man!". The hilarious part is most have deluded themselves into thinking the general public will put up with that bullshit, such as the Linux user that told me with a straight face I should force Joe and Sally average to "embrace the power!" of CLI. damn, that still cracks me up.

But here are some very basic questions you should ask yourself: Why is my product dead last? why will no B&M stores carry it? Why in 15 years has it gone virtually nowhere on the desktop? Why did my brand new product get its ass stomped by a decade old XP in netbooks, a form factor it was practically built for? Why do so many go to the trouble and risk of pirating MSFT, when they can have my product for free?

Ask those questions and I'm sure that it will come down to the same answer I came to long ago: It is because your product is a server OS that is a royal PITA on the desktop. And as for the "it will lock in developers" argument? So you are admitting that MSFT can build a better product, since they have made it trivial to support their product, while yours can't even get its shit together enough to come up with a way to put a fucking penguin on the box? STOP thinking like a hacker, think like a customer. Ever hear the customer is always right? Your product is NOT ready for desktops, because you can't even walk into walmart, one of the largest chains on the entire planet, and buy a simple AIO printer or USB device without playing paperweight roulette.

But you don't like a stable ABI? Fine, riddle me this: How exactly do you propose to get drivers on CDs and penguins on boxes without it? I already pointed out your putting kernel numbers, which would be like expecting Windows users to know which kernel and patch level their PC was up to, is a complete waste of time, because by the time the device hits market it will already be far out of date. So what is your answer? Because without solving this fundamental problem your OS is going exactly nowhere fast. Nobody but you care about "free as in freedom man!" as evidenced by the fact that everyone is carrying iPods made by a company that makes MSFT look cute and fuzzy by comparison. Apple never met a lockin they didn't like, yet they are gaining and already several times more popular than your free OS o

Actually with nearly 15 years in the PC repair biz I can tell you with authority that a good 97+% of users pick the default install, which is why i have to clean out toolbars and why Ninite is a blessing.

Now if you want to tweak the hell out of the program and THEN have it automated, the tool you are looking for is NOT Ninite but Almeza. It is $30 but has a 30 day free trail. I haven't tried it on Vista/Win7 yet, but on XP it made the most awesome software install discs. Open Office, Klite Mega Codec pack, anything you wanted to serious tweak and then automate Almeza was the way to go, I just haven't had time to give it a spin on Win7. If you do let me know how it goes.

But you are complaining Ninite is a hammer and you want a band saw. Ninite is made for the average home user who just don't want to do the "toolbar tango" and I can tell you from experience a good 97+% have no clue what all those options are, hence why they always use default. If you are a power user you may want something more complex, and that is where Almeza comes in. Almeza also has features Ninite don't like making auto-installing CDs/DVDs. So to me it is all about having the right tool for the job, Ninite for basics and Almeza if you want total customization.

Sorry, never thought to take screens. I was just the poor schmuck that had to fix the damned thing, it was the boss that cared to see if it "beat the record". I just wanted to get the slow ass thing done. If I would have had my way we would have never seen how many viruses was on it, because I would have saved a few things with a Linux LiveCD and then nuked the OS.

Now as far as that "PC driver's license" thing? I don't think you've really thought that through. My neighbor, a retired NASA engineer, had something insightful about such a thing when I asked why he didn't just fix his own boxes. He said he did, during the days of his Commodore 128 ( he would love to have another one, if anybody knows where I could pick one up) when he could be confident that he knew what each piece of code would do along the path, but the things are just so complex now that he says it just isn't worth his time to keep up.

And I think that hits the nail on the head better than any 'teach the user" BS, because time is simply too short and too many attack vectors exist. I mean you got your 0 day, your driveby, your OS specific bugs, browser bugs, media player bugs, the list could go on forever. With a vehicle there are only x number of ways to screw up. With a networked computer the ways to get pwned is almost limitless, so having a license in the end really wouldn't do much, as no matter how well you educated the user they would get bit by something you never thought up.

That is why ultimately I go with a "don't think" approach, which I find works really well. That is I try to automate as much as possible, so thinking isn't required to be safe. Firefox with ABP (to cut down on ad related attack vectors) and Windows autoupdates, I have Comodo AV/Firewall set to do the same as well as scanning twice weekly on a schedule they can live with, same with Spybot, Kilte Mega to keep them from downloading dodgy codecs, etc. I have found by using this approach I can cut down a good 85% of the infections. Now they pretty much have to ignore the warnings and do it anyway to get hosed. And with Almeza I can have many of the installs automated so I don't have to waste MY time installing. All in all I would say this is a better approach than trying to educate the user enough that they can stop all of today's malware attack vectors. Because the PCs of today are just too complex for the average Joe to keep up with.

Actually I've found you can get most of that speed back by using a really good registry cleaner like the one built into tuneup utilities. This is the freeware full version of the 2k7 edition, but if you like it I would suggest buying the 2K9 as it is even nicer.

That said i would also recommend monthly disc imaging which will give you a way to roll back effectively if you end up with an app that leaves behind a bunch of crap. And of course a disc image of a clean install with all drivers and patches and basic apps is certainly less time consuming than having to deal with a yearly clean install. After restoring from the clean image you can then do the full patches using something like autopatcher with Multiset taking care of automating any new "must have" software.

I have found with these little tricks you can greatly extend the life of your Windows OS without the need to do a clean install. By using these tricks along with keeping my data on a separate drive so I don't have to worry about backups before rollbacks I have been using the same install of Win2K that I am typing this on since 2000 when it replaced WinME(EEEK!) and simply haven't had to deal with Windows rot. I simply roll back when I have a nasty uninstaller and use Tuneup to clean out any junk registry entries and this old workhorse still makes a good Nettop even after all these years. And it is certainly easier than doing a yearly reinstall.

Uuuhhhhh....You Do know nobody actually does that,right? They just take it to a guy like me who uses something like driverpack and then uses something like Almeza to install the programs. Makes my job real easy and the customers are happy. I actually use a driver disc on DVD, but the guy puts out updates often on Rapidshare and since I haven't downloaded the last .rar for the latest I'd rather it not be Slashdotted.

And I know the Linux guys will hate me for saying this, but you really want to know why Linux didn't gain squat even with a super turkey like Vista as competition? Because of the trinity of shopping-Best Buy, Staples, Walmart. You see almost nothing you buy in those three stores actually works in Linux. The few things that do will require major research to make sure that you don't get the "wrong" model, and from nearly 15 years in the PC biz I can tell you folks don't research anything that costs less than a car. And no matter how popular online shopping is to us geeks, ordinary folks like walking into those stores and going "Oooh...Sale!" and putting stuff in their cart. And the odds are when they get that stuff home it won't work in Linux.

Which makes sense, actually. Linus can talk about desktops ALL he wants, but as in anything all you have to do is follow the money to see that talk of desktops is bullshit. Red Hat, IBM, Oracle, all the companies that spend major bucks on development and support for Linux spend it on server not on desktop. That is why things in the server market "just work" in Linux. By contrast unless you can write your own drivers a lot of times with the consumer level stuff in Linux just "don't work". And please let go of that "It's not our fault, they won't write drivers for us" because that is also bullshit. It is COMPLETELY your fault, because there is no stable ABI and writing a binary driver for Linux and having it work long term is like trying to hit a dartboard with a bumblebee. And give it up the vast majority of companies will NEVER release their specs and code under GPL, okay? Not going to happen.

So if you want to know why MSFT can release a pile of poo and Apple can "fart in your general direction" while having crazy prices and Linux can't catch a break, that's why. The stuff consumers want to buy won't work without research they'll never do. This makes returns 400-600% higher when selling a Linux machines over Windows, which makes Linux a more expensive proposition from a retail standpoint than Windows. Sorry, that is the truth and that is just the way things are.

Thank you. I appreciate the fact that unlike so many on Slashdot you have given a fair answe instead of labeling me a troll while blasting the "M$FT Monopoly". Here is a simple couple of tests you can do which will show you why I don't carry Linux at my shop. Have you EVER had to "open up bash and type" to fix a problem? I have often found that is the ONLY answer you get for many problems in Linux. Which is understandable, as Linux is a primarily server OS that is admined by people with IT experience that have no trouble with CLI. If your answer is yes, then it is not ready for my home consumers and SMBs. They have grown used to having a GUI and frankly CLI is too dangerous and difficult for them.

Second is the "hairyfeet challenge" which so far the best score is 6 out of 9, which still equals 3 pissed off customers. And as for the other poster whining that " I shouldn't take the PC back" because they got burned by a Windows only device? if I took that attitude I would be out of business in 6 months or less. Word of mouth can make or break a repair shop, and burning my customers doesn't build up good will. Ready for the "hairyfeet challenge? Here goes-

Open up three tabs in your browser. From this moment until the end of the challenge you are a virtual shopper and three of my customers shopping in the stores I'm about to name after buying a Kubuntu box from me. You must NOT do research before purchase! Consumers don't do research before a sale on anything less expensive than a car, and if you want to increase accuracy of the challenge buy the cheapest whenever possible, as consumers buy on features/price most of the time. Here is where you are shopping- In the first tab go to Walmart.com, second Bestbuy.com, third Staples.com. These are the "big three" and where my customers shop for gadgets. Next place on of each of these items in your virtual cart-An all in one printer, a Wifi USB card, and a USB TV Tuner. There are the three most asked about items here. Now go to Ubuntu forums and see if your items are supported. If you wish top increase accuracy you will not avoid brands like Lexmark as a consumer who isn't familiar with Linux would have no idea to avoid them.

How many carts were you able to get out of the store with 100% support? if you are lucky you got out with one cart, and that is if you "cheated" by avoiding Lexmark that the average consumer wouldn't remember to do even if you warned them beforehand. And THAT is why I can't support and sell Linux in my shop. Because those other two carts would be bringing their PC back to "fix" and when I couldn't do so I would have to return their money or risk losing business. Trying to bundle you will simply go bankrupt. I can add value to a PC purchased from me by virtue of the software and tweaks applied before you pick it up. The only difference between an all in one I carry and the one at Walmart is that Walmart will undercut me by 30% or more because they can buy them by the trainload and I can not. The margins on such items are so bad that short of buying them by the trainload I would end up losing money.

So it really isn't being "old fashioned" it is simply the bottom line, nothing more. I have my business to make money, not to be an advocate for one company or another. I can't afford to bundle as I will lose to Walmart, just as I have bought many of the supplies of hardware from fellow shops that were stupid enough to get into the laptop game and were chewed up by the Walmart and Staples ability to sell "loss leaders" which they make up with other items that they simply didn't have to sell. With Windows my after sale support costs are virtually zero. This is because I have a nice Almeza cd that automates the installation of antivirus, antispyware, oxygen office, etc. Time required to use? About 5 minutes of my time, followed by 30 of letting it run auto updates. So when a customer walks out my door with their new PC the only calls I'll be getting from them is "can you build/look at my (insert family me

And as a PC repairman I can say that autorun isn't even in the top 5 of ways an average Windows machine that crosses my desk gets boned. Hell I wouldn't even put it in the top ten. Maybe somewhere in the top twenty. The number 1 2 and 3 are 1-Hot_Lesbos.mpg.exe 2-Lame_pop_song.mp3.exe 3-here are those pics I promised! ( unsolicited email attachment from friend with password protected zip file).

Honestly the guy that put "do not show file extensions for known file types" as the default should have gotten a really good firing. That and the fact that on 95-XP if you choose to uncheck the "do not show file extensions" checkbox and hit rename explorer automatically will pick the ENTIRE file, including the extension. Which means if you let them see the extension you end up with a bunch of files renamed with no file extension that the user then has no clue what5 to do with or how to open. That was just some really stupid UI design.

Oh and for the PC repair guys out there that are having to wipe and reinstall Windows a lot, or like me build a lot of new XP machines, I would recommend Almeza Multiset to make you life a whole lot easier. I have a lot of programs like Oxygen Office and Klite Mega Codec Pack that I give my customers so when they get the box they can just flip the switch and go. With Almeza I only have to install and configure a program once and Almeza will make a nice unattended install CD with whatever programs I choose set the way I want them, be it FF3 with ABP, OO.o, whatever. All I do is pick "install all" and go have a smoke and when I return she is ready to go. I am not connected with the company in any way, it is just the best $39.99 I've spent when it comes to having to work on Windows.

That is why you make your money selling the "full package" treatment.I take those couple of hundred bucks worth of parts and sell it for $500 and have customers sending their family and friends to get boxes built from me. Why? Because when you get an XP PC from me you get a "just flip the switch and go" solution.

First I find out what they are going to use it for and tailor the hardware to their requirements. Then when they power it on the find it has antivirus and spybot already installed and set to do their nightly scans and updates when they aren't using it, they have Oxygen Office and Gnucash already to go for any office work they need to do, they have Firefox with ABP already installed for ad free web browsing, they have Klite Mega Codec pack so any video format they run into "just works" out of the box, I give them Songbird for their music needs, and if they bring the discs for anything proprietary they own(cameras, printers, etc) i install that too. That way when they get home all they do is "plug in and go" and they are quite happy to pay for that convenience.

So it is all about providing that extra bit of effort, adding that extra value. Of course they don't need to know that thanks to Almeza Multiset, or as I like to call it the PC guy's little helper, it is all pretty much "stick in the disc, hit go and go have a smoke" but what matters to them is that they don't have to fool with it. No hours installing stuff, or dealing with crapware, they just flip the switch and enjoy. So if you feel bad about charging for the time pick up a copy of Almeza, make you a few unattended CDs with it, and then offer Packages with your repairs. You'd be surprised how many folks are happy to pay to have the PC just "do what they want" out of the box with no fuss. And it will give your customers a reason to rave about you to their friends/family/coworkers. And more business in this economy is always a good thing ;-)

Uhhhh......I wasn't actually talking about using it to make WINDOWS unattended disks. Although it has that feature so does WinXP ISO Builder, Nlite, etc. I was talking about all the OTHER software that they end up needing. All the stuff like Spybot and Adaware, Klite Codec pack, FF3 and Opera, etc. All the little crap that adds hours to a full reinstall.

But if you DID want to use it for Windows reinstalls(I would rather use a tweaked Nlite that only needs their key put in and automates the rest) then you DO know that it is trivial to change the XP Key after install, right? But like I said this tool isn't for that. It may have that feature but that isn't where it really shines. Where it shines is in installing all the crap you have to stick on after you get to that clean desktop the first time. Let me show you how much time it saves, by using it along with one of my other favorite tools-

Come up to clean desktop. Install their drivers from backup. Launch autopatcher disc and use it to run all patches, along with DirectX, Dotnet, Java, and Flash. Come back 20 minutes later and reboot. On reboot stick in Almeza disc, of which I have two(one for home users with stuff like the various messengers and one for business which just gives the basics) look at my little sheet of which programs the user had installed, add a couple I think they'd enjoy, hit go. 10 minutes later all I have to do is transfer their folders and settings and I'm done. A hell of a lot quicker than doing it the old fashioned way, huh?

With an Nlite OEM XP disc, a disc with a fully loaded autopatcher, and the Almeza disc I can get 90% of the machines that walk through my door done with just those three. Then all I need to do is let the ANTI-spyware and AV do updates and hand it over. But like I said, they have a trial that is free on their website. Use Nlite for creating unattended Windows discs, it has much more options. But for unattended software installations I have yet to find anything that even gets close.

Have you ever tried Almeza Multiset? If you have to deal with Windows often it really is a Godsend. With Multiset I only have to install software ONE time on my test machine and it makes a nice software unattended installation. It will remember all the checkboxes I check, all the buttons I push, and all the tweaks I do to the software as I install it. Then I simply burn the software to a CD/DVD and voila! No more sitting there for hours going "clicky clicky next next next". It is WELL worth the money, believe me.

They have a trial on their website. Try it and I bet you'll like it. One piece of advice though. It was designed for single .EXEs, like what you get with FF and Opera. So if you want to install something like MS Office with it simply drag the folders off the office disc into the correct folder during CD/DVD creation. Since it simply drops the contents into a folder for you to burn later this is trivial to do. And since you can choose between having it install all the software on a CD/DVD or picking and choosing what you want you can tailor the install for the client. I cut down my Windows software installs from 3 hours to under 10 minutes with this baby. Trust me, it is REALLY worth having in your toolbox!