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Man Jailed After Using LimeWire For ID Theft
angry tapir sends along this excerpt from PC World:
"A Seattle man has been sentenced to more than three years in prison for using the LimeWire file-sharing service to lift personal information from computers across the US. The man, Frederick Wood, typed words like 'tax return' and 'account' into the LimeWire search box. That allowed him to find and access computers on the LimeWire network with shared folders that contained tax returns and bank account information. ... He used the information to open accounts, create identification cards and make purchases. 'Many of the victims are parents who don't realize that LimeWire is on their home computer,' [said Kathryn Warma of the US Attorney's Office]."
Man jailed for ID theft. This is a good outcome, I'd say.
The Limewire connection is only interesting because it shows social vulnerabilities inherent in the filesharing mechanism. As long as you make it simple to share files and folders, people are going to be lazy and end up sharing files that they never meant to share.
'Many of the victims are parents who don't realize that LimeWire is on their home computer,' [said Kathryn Warma of the US Attorney's Office]."
...shut down by The Man.
Do people not understand how file-sharing works?
Correct
I know someone who did that by typing in *.qdb for the quicken database files, then he proceeded to call the credit card companies and alert them that they had people sharing their info. Although the credit companies were very grateful, he still didn't want to give him his name.
The crime was using it.
Here's a moral equivalent:
Imagine of lots of people left the same forms on their car dashboard for all to see and parked their cars on the public streets. Then I walk along and write that info down in my notebook. So far, I haven't done anything illegal. Or I should say, if I have broken a law, then the laws are broken.
But once I use this information, particularly if I use it fraudulently, then I've committed a crime.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I don't know how they couldn't. The thing is so bloated and slow, and degrades system resources so much, you'd think people would go "Hey, WTF is going on here?" Unless of course they already have tons of malware, and their private info has been lifted by half a dozen botnets already, in which case Limewire is probably the most secure network app they're running.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
This is outrageous! Our rights have been trampled on for the last time! We must rise up and fi....
Wait, wait, wait... are we /.ers for or against doing illegal stuff on P2P networks this week?
Sorry, between defending one illegal P2P activity (music "sharing") and condemning another (ID theft), it's hard to know what's what...
Tip: The mod point you're looking for is "-1 offtopic"
-William Brendel
I mean the guy should go for jail for it, no doubts there - but the fact that it can happen is the real issue that needs to be addressed.
I mean it's not the victim's fault, they probably don't even know what Limewire is, let alone how to use it or how it can be dangerous. It's not Limewire's fault, I mean any method they put in to prevent this will either detract from their service or will just spawn more problems.
And little Billy Downloady just put My Docs as the shared folder so his music goes into the music folder and the movies go into the movies folder. Having no idea that his parents happened to keep sensitive info in there.
I Guess the solution... Encrypt your Data regardless your situation?
Clearly using the information is wrong.
I don't think getting data from a folder someone has publicly shared is wrong.
And before someone uses that lame ass house analogy, it doesn't apply becasue that's not how computer communicate.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Many people from older generations that have not had the time to learn how to use the computer aside from e-mail and online news have no clue. And computers aren't as static as we geeks like to think they are, and they slow down or speed up occasionally, install updates, etc.
For someone who has really no clue how it works and isn't even used to using it, it's very easy to see how they could not notice.
"Many people from older generations that have not had the time to learn how to use the computer aside from e-mail and online news have no clue."
Then why are these idiots letting their kids use their computer?.........No wait.......
Athiesm is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
The thing is so bloated and slow...
Behold the power of Java!
On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
[Reposting this little gem from a few weeks ago]
People kept settinng the Kazaa upload directory to C:\ and you could find anything. Everyone was searching for MP3s, but you could find DOC files in "Documents and Settings".
I forget what I searched for but I got a listing of Word Documents that included "Penis Enlargement Instructions.DOC" or something like that. So naturally I clicked on that one and downloaded it. Figuring, it might be real, because a moron dumb enough to let Kazaa index his documents folder would be the sort of person who responds to spam and shells out money for penis enlargement instructions. And once he's paid for and gotten actual instructions that are obviously bullshit, even if he felt he'd been suckered, he'd at least hold onto the file. Maybe for psychological reasons, or to prove he'd been scammed, I don't know. So they might have to be just barely plausible. And hey, if they are, free penis enlargement instructions, right?
IIRC the dude gives his testimonial, it's so incredible, it will work for you too etc. and then he goes into this procedure where you basically yank on it repeatedly.
Wood was sentenced Tuesday to 39 months in prison and three years of supervised release for wire fraud, accessing a protected computer without authorization to commit fraud, and aggravated identity theft.
What chain of idiocy determined the computers he accessed to be "protected"?
Wood: Hey, do you have any files with names like this?
Computer: Yeah, I do.
Wood: Can I have them plz?
Computer: No problem - here they are for you.
Then why are these idiots letting their kids use their computer?.........No wait.......
That would be a very large debate. But hey, if "parenting" consists of "taking kids to daycare" and when they are older "taking kids to school" and when they are older "buying kids a car," it's no wonder they let their kids use "their" computer.
Yet another damn good reason not to let your kids have free reign on your computer that you also use for banking and filing your taxes.
Ignorance is no excuse.. If someone came to town, handed me a strange object with no instructions and left me to myself then I in turn push a button that then wipes out a city. Yeah that's an oops, but my ignorance doesn't forgive me for killing thousands of people... It just makes me cool~
the guy's sentence had nothing to do with limewire or even downloading. If he had downloaded said tax records for just a laugh, he would be free. He has been jailed for fraud pure and simple.
Don't we hate "X but on the internet" patent claims? Then why are "X with a very loose connection the internet" stories okay?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Frederick Wood: did he think passing off boxes of junk as computers would never fail?
First craigslist victim: you wrote a check without checking the product?
Prosecutor: what 'protected computer' was accessed? Do you have a different definition of protected?
ID theft Victims: what are you thinking putting sensitive information on a computer used by teenagers?
You're confusing ignorance with stupidity. Everyone is ignorant, nobody knows everything. Anyone who assails the intelligence of someone because they don't posess a certain bit of knowledge that they do is stupid.
Free Martian Whores!
Well, no, most people barely understand how their computer works at all. They can kind of drag their way through Windows, but only because they only need to access a few things and they've more or less memorised where to click for those things are. Move their icons around and suddenly it's a huge crisis for them.
Additionally, many households only have one computer. Mom and Dad use the computer sometimes, then little Susie gets on and installs Limewire, accepts all the defaults, and next thing you know, Mom and Dad's files are being shared with the world.
Or maybe the person is just clueless, and doesn't understand the concept of folders and directories. They want to share their music, their music is on the hard drive, they know the hard drive is C:, so that's what they share.
Really there are any number of reasons this could happen, either from sheer idiocy, to ignorance, to total accident. Back in the the day, 2001 or so, I used to search for things like "resume.doc", or random Windows DLLs, in Kazaa, then I knew who was sharing things they probably shouldn't. Then you could do "More files from this user," or whatever the option was, and come up with all kinds of interesting stuff. Never occured to me to search for tax returns, but then, I wasn't really trying to do anything malicious either. The point is that people sharing practically their entire hard drive, without even realising it, has been going on a long, long time.
mirrorshades radio -- darkwave, industrial, futurepop, ebm.
From the article: "Warma's advice to people who want to avoid becoming victims of this kind of identity theft was to "get Limewire off your computers." Even the added security features in the most recent version can be circumvented, she said.
"I think it's a horrible idea for people to have peer-to-peer software on their computers unless they're a very sophisticated user," she said. "
Next story please.
PS: Captcha is "audited". I encourage everyone to contribute the the research of the development of /.'s AI, data-mining, captcha generation algorithm.
You are truly a horrible person! Teasing all of us with a long post, referring to free penis enlargement instructions, then not posting up the said instructions. You sir, are pure Evil!
If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
I'm still amazed how many people think it's a great idea to have their resume on their personal website, along with their date of birth, address and believe it or not I've actually seen people put their SSN on their resumes.
For a bunch of techies on Slashdot it's hard to understand. It's like a car mechanic saying, "How could you not know your valves needed adjusting by how the engine was running? Now your motor is destroyed" and the customer's answer is "What's a valve?" I bet the auto mechanic web forums are full of people laughing at the "dumb" end users of expensive, ruined machines.
There are a whole combination of technical details to know with file sharing - Windows shares, file system permissions, why you shouldn't run applications as admin by default, IP, port address translation (if you have a typical NATing home router). Even if you think you understand the software, how can you be sure you're 100% safe when you install software that's DESIGNED to open up your computer to the world?
I've posted on here a few times on this very topic, although I'm probably preaching to the choir. People are stupid like you wouldn't believe.
I've done this before, not for nefarious reasons but more as a proof-of-concept to convince myself that people really are this stupid.
Obviously I never did anything illegal – merely downloading the sensitive files isn't illegal AFAIK, since they're publicly sharing them (even if unknowingly). Attempting to log into someone's PayPal account (to see if the password had been changed or the account locked out) was probably somewhat borderline; I never tried to log into any of the credit or banking accounts. Most of the login details were no good, but I was able to log into people's e-mail accounts, several different instant messenger accounts, even a couple of RapidShare Premium accounts. (One e-mail account even appeared to be actively used – recent dates on messages, which I didn't read although I saw the subjects. As a gesture of helpfulness I sent an e-mail from the account to itself in which I informed them that their login details were being shared on LimeWire!)
So yes, this doesn't surprise me in the least.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
No, they do not. Many people think that they are searching some sort of repository of files that was set up specifically to be searched. They do not realize that they are searching other people's hard drives, and other people are searching theirs. Even when they realize that people are downloading from them many people think that the downloading is restricted to music files. The idea that their entire hard drive may be open for searching is alien to some people.
Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
Actually it is usually the children that install Limewire to get free music and video games. Most parents don't know what Limewire is, and share the computer with their children. When they notice a slow down on the Internet they think it is a virus or just Windows as usual. Not knowing that Limewire is sharing their "MyDocuments" folder including all of their personal documents and files in that folder.
My son, for example, uses a PC different from mine. So mine does not get infected with viruses or get all of the files shared via Limewire or some other program. But then I am Tech Savvy enough to know what Limewire and other file sharing programs are, and take them off of my system.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
You'd be surprised the number of places I've seen Limewire up and running, where it shouldn't have been. I picked up a little work in a small office, and their manager's desktop was also the server for a few other things. They said "Oh, it's always a little slow", and it had been like that for years. Turns out a few years ago, Limewire had been installed and had been running ever since. They attributed it to someone who used to work nights, and downloaded music all night.
Luckily there was no sensitive data on any directories it was sharing, but if I recall correctly the old behavior was to share all of C drive, or at least look for directories that had music files in them.
I took it off (obviously), and cleaned up a few not terribly malicious malwares, and it was back up to a reasonable speed.
Most non-technical people will attribute a "slow" computer to just being old, even if the specs of the machine are fine, it just has too much crap on it. One computer I worked on had a dozen or so toolbars, and other assorted privacy concerns. They weren't necessarily malware, but do you need the Yahoo, Google, AOL and Ask toolbar on your computer, if you never use any of them? :)
There's a PC (2.8Ghz, 512Mb RAM, WinXP) that I'm working on now, that had so much crap installed that it was useless. Like, literally 5 minutes to open Firefox just after booting. After I removed the crap, it worked reasonably as long as you didn't have too many windows open. It's getting a memory upgrade today, and then getting delivered back to the customer.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
With all that crap in the MS system tray, it's a wonder anyone has any idea when new things appear on their machine.
Ze Atomic Device! It iz Ztolen!
"the old behavior was to share all of C drive"
How such functionality could ever get into a released product is beyond me. That is absurd, and incredibly insecure, and to be honest the creators of Limewire should be the ones going to court and to jail for releasing such shoddy software.
Also, all of the p2p software I have encountered only shares what you explicitly tell it to share, often defaulting to its own downloads directory.
If he had downloaded said tax records for just a laugh, he would be free.
I've heard this argument on Slashdot before.
Like every time a geek is sentenced to do hard time after being caught poking his nose into somewhere it didn't belong.
There are a bare handful of reasons why you could claim to be legally in possession of a someone else's tax records - and none of them are likely to involve a download over the P2P nets.
Most parents know that being computer literate is an important part of their childrens' education. They probably bought the computer in the first place for their kids to use so they would learn more about computers than their forebears.
All generalizations are false, including this one. Mark Twain
I don't know how they couldn't. The thing is so bloated and slow, and degrades system resources so much, you'd think people would go "Hey, WTF is going on here?"
No, they won't LimeWire hardly uses any significant system resources unless your computer is from the 90s.
Ignorance isn't an excuse. I know what my kid does and I monitor her network and phone traffic carefully. It also helps that I'm the one maintaining her computer and to a lesser extent phone. That being said however, I also know her friends and even what televsion shows she watches. I know I'm in IT and most of the rest of the world isn't, but at the same time... It IS fairly easy to Google something and find out.
Thank you for putting it in a way I could understand. I had no idea what this discussion was all about until you came along with a car analogy.
My cousin fought a constant battle with her son over this. "No, you will *not* install Kazaa on my computer. Yes, I know your computer is 'non-functional'. Perhaps there is a reason for this. If you 'knew what you were doing', your computer would not be pwnd and bot-netted by every script-kiddie on the planet. Again. STAY THE HECK OFF MY COMPUTER!"
Many people have one directory (perhaps called My Documents) that they use for everything. The files that they download are mixed in with their bank statements, Christmas card lists, and everything else.
Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
This Post took 170 seconds, 270 Megabites of ram, and over 54,880,000,000,000 cpu cycles to post, all thanks to the power of JAVA!
O.o
Those two things are essentially the same thing.
The only difference is that you justify one and not the other by claiming it's alright to steal from a large company but not an individual.
No, they are -not- essentially the same thing. The victim of fraud's loss is concrete/real, but it's hard to make the same argument for the record labels, where the item in question is not actually taken away from the victim.
You may have a point, but i still don't see how they could get their bank records , because , by default Limewire only shares the 'Shared folder' .
So , they either put their bank records in the Shared folder , or they changed the settings to include other folders.
What i mean to say is : Limewire already put effort into making sure you don't accidentally share files .
That being said , considering the amount of junk you get when typing 'tax return' , i must admire the persistence of the identity thief.
Slipping shoelaces ?
I am ignorant and I do not know the difference between ignorance and stupidity. Although I know that your assailling of my intelligence because I do not posess this bit of knowledge makes you stupid!
Yes, but only with computers can you get away with your ignorance
... the defense : "I did not know it was a crime to steal stuff before 9:00 P.M." will not work, because none should ignore the law.
If your car has the "break" light flashing in the dashboard for 2 years, and you don't get your car checked, and one day you're totally out of break fluid and you run over a pregnant mother, you will be held responsible and you won't be able to claim it's not your fault because you don't know anything about cars.(P.S.: I don't know anything about cars, but I know I'd be responsible )
If you steal a 52inch plasma T.V. from a home in broad daylight and you get arrested by the cops,
If I get stomach pain, I get a doctor to look at me, because if I ignore the issue, I won't be able to complain to GOD that I am dead because I wasn't a Doctor posting stuff on doctor's forums and that it isn't fair, nor that it is not my fault cuz I didn't know and that he should give me my life back.
So...... When I don't know how to fix my car, I don't ignore the problem, hope for the best, knowing I can claim ignorance and ignore the safety threat that I am to other people out there, I get a mechanic to fix it
Why not the same for people using computers, don't know anything about them, call a tech. By making them accountable for their own ignorance it would solve a large part of the problem. Example : I bet there wouldn't be anymore SPAMS or almost none because people would no longer be part of large botnets if they we're prosecuted for sending the spams.
Isn't slashdot great? You never know what you'll learn.
Free Martian Whores!
True! Keep up the good work.
People are not stupid, they are ignorant.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Geeks really fuck up this one: a computer does not have power of attorney. An openly accessible computer does not grant you any legal rights or protections.
So, what person gave you the right to use the Slashdot server, Mr. Anonymous Coward who didn't log in?
There is little technical difference between a web server that openly says "please come in, look around, and make changes" to a Limewire service saying essentially the same thing.
The only "legal" difference I can see is the "reasonable man rule:" What conclusion would a reasonable person who had a working knowledge of Limewire, as this person did, and a reasonable layperson-level knowledge about what information most people consider sensitive come to if he saw this information in an "open" area of a computer with Limewire on it?
In most cases, and probably in this one, the answer would be "this guy is an idiot, he probably didn't mean for me to see that, I better not use it, forward it, or publicize it or its existance, and I better make reasonable efforts to make sure I don't keep a copy myself. I might also be courteous and let the person know he's left the barn door open."
It's the same conclusion a reasonable person would make if he saw the same information on a car dashboard in a public street.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
No. Taking stuff from an unlocked car would still be theft.
The car analogy relies on copying information, not taking physical property. It also relies on the information being "in plain view" from "a public street."
Merely copying the information is not a crime. Using it might be. Using it fraudulently almost always is.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Then you'd best lock up Bill Gates and the Windows 95 development team, because it did pretty much the same thing.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
You are still responsible for your sons use of his computer....
Being a computer tech. and mechanic, I can say yes, we do.
I learned (from you!) that crack whores "fuck good". And that anyone who voluntarily stays in fucking Springfield, ILLINOIS, is an inbred, ignorant IDIOT. Congrats!
By definition, half of all people are dumber than the median. From your post I'm guessing you don't realize how much that, and an understanding of where the median is, and what the curve looks like, horrifies some of us.
Can't sleep. Clowns will eat me.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Actually it is usually the children that install Limewire to get free music and video games. Most parents don't know what Limewire is, and share the computer with their children. When they notice a slow down on the Internet they think it is a virus or just Windows as usual.
No, it's even worse than that. Some parents, as the article explains, don't even know that it's *there.* While some see the program glaringly in front of them and ignore it as fodder, there are kids that install it *against* their parent's will. While they might not know *exactly* what it is, they do know about the illegality of downloading media from the Internet.
Frankly, I don't even tell the clients I've worked with that this is an option. I'd rather not promote software I'm vehemently against. Not that I have anything against P2P; I just hate LimeWire and it's ilk.
NOTE: If that PC is a Pentium IV, it should run extremely well with those specs...unless their applications are somewhat resource-intensive. I used Photoshop on a machine spec'ed out like that with no problems.
So you think that people are "stupid" because they don't know how to effectively secure their digital assets? This is akin to a security analyst calling you stupid for lacking knowledge of 0-day vuln's...and then rooting your box to exploit that lack of knowledge. (Maybe you do, but there are plenty of tech professionals that don't.)
i.e. the script kiddies (or criminals) that drop trojans and other nefarious oddities and do massive damage to people's computers daily.
Just sayin'.
Which I monitor and use OpenDNS to block the bad web sites he shouldn't go to either.
From time to time he'll click on an ad, and then I have to remove the adware or spyware that it installed. He uses Opera instead of Firefox, and it still gets exploited.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Well I tell friends and relatives not to let their children install file sharing programs like Kazaa, Limewire, etc.
Most of the time I have to clean up their system of malware is when their son or daughter downloaded a bunch of music files and software and then just ran everything they downloaded. Including a trojan infected antivirus software that doesn't find the malware because they downloaded it via a P2P network.
I just get a free AV software like AVG, Spybot Search and Destroy, Adware, Avast, BitDefender Free, etc because it is a home system and qualifies for free AV software and boot into Safe Mode and then scan in safe mode, or use MSCONFIG to disable all startup programs but the AV software and then scan using them. Usually I have to uninstall all of the crap their kids installed that they downloaded from P2P networks. I tell them not to let their kids use P2P networks anymore, but few listen to me and they get infected again.
I've tried to show them FOSS alternatives like OpenOffice.Org, GNUCash, GIMP, Paint.Net, etc which some of them end up using instead of downloading commercial versions from P2P networks.
But eventually it gets so bad, that I refuse to support them until their children stop using P2P networks.
Even music files can contain trojans and exploits in them, and most are in self extracting EXE files that contain a virus in them when run, some have ads for other web sites in them, and others require an unlock password for the RAR or ZIP file and they have to get it by a web site that infects them with a virus but gives them the password to the archived file to unzip or unrar it.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
STaying anonymous this time to prevent getting arrested....
I used to do the same thing! It's amazing how much info you can pull and FAST! Sick really in all tenses of the word.
I think I was bored and looked for a *.ttf's(or something like that for Turbo Tax File) and *.xls & *.mdb because back then people who used access had no clue, and everyone just as today used excel like a db app.
don't give your children administrator privleges on your 'puter!!!!!!! I mean come on, you might aswell entrust them with your carkeys and credit information, and stikk them in a room full of strangers. give it they might still be able to install some programs, and not all of them that good but from what I remember this is not the case with limewire. and while your at it why not put up a firewall and restrict the internet access for all users. Maybe even turn of the port that limewire runs on, if the kid is smart enough to jump through all the hops to get limewire installed and running, he also knows how to restrict the sharing. Don't get me wrong I am all for letting kids to dangerous things ( http://www.ted.com/talks/gever_tulley_on_5_dangerous_things_for_kids.html) but teach them why it's dangerous, lay down some rules and do it with them.
I did this (search for .tax on Limewire), and (apparently) some accountants share their client's tax records.
So I called one or two, and said "I'm just being a Good Samaritan, and telling you that your tax records are online. To prove I mean no harm, you can see my phone number - I am not hiding anything or doing anything wrong."
And I got REEMED. CHEWED OUT. screw 'em. Shoot the messenger!
Geez, I would have helped them fix the problem! But noooooo.
Pointing this out is probably about as useless as pissing in the ocean to make the water level rise, but people are not stupid for not understanding how file-sharing works, they are ignorant.
Similarly, you seem to think you had permission to download sensitive files because they were shared publicly. Legally you did not, because, as you yourself pointed out, the files were possibly shared unknowingly. Using the standard of a reasonable person (for common law, at least. I'm playing the numbers and assuming you live in a common law jurisdiction), would a reasonable person conclude that your target intended to share sensitive information? No - like you, they would conclude it was an accident born of ignorance. Luckily, that does not make you stupid, just ignorant
This is great new *feature* in Limewire! If you're ever sued by the RIAA you can just claim "Your honor, I was just using Limewire to share my tax return information! I had no idea it would scan my other folders and share my music and movies too!"
Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
Let this be a lesson to the in-numeral clueless computer users (appliance operators) who share the entire contents of the hard drive to "file sharing" software, you got what you deserved.
"I bow to no man" - Riddick
(I am not the GP)
I can't cite the law at where you live, mostly because I live in a different place (I live in Finland and here it is illegal too), but think of it like this:
The mailman accidentally gives you mail that was supposed to go to your neighbor. I am pretty sure that where-ever you live, you aren't allowed to read it even though you yourself acquired it without breaking any law. It's the same thing, only that you accidentally now opened the mail... You still aren't allowed to read it. Of course, if you did it by accident, it happens. But when you realize "I just opened my neighbor's mail", you should stop reading.
No. Ignorance is not knowing how to do something right. Stupidity is not caring enough to do something right.
Separate user accounts separating kids and tax information are about as basic as knowing when the oil needs changing or locking your car doors. Yes, if you do your taxes on a computer, you should spend enough time to learn the very basics.
"Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns" -Journal of Political Econom
A friend once mentioned how he saw somebody who was driving an exotic sports car down the street do something that made the transmission make a horrible grinding noise while bringing the car to a sudden dead stop, and rendered the car unrestartable (they probably tried to put the manual transmission in reverse while doing around 40km/h).
Dude, you are almost passively entertaining. Kinda off topic, and completely factually wrong, but entertaining.
But if it will appease you, I've donated everything but my last $10 to Slashdot. That wasn't very hard, since I don't have $10 to my name right now.
But hey, worship me as a multi-millionaire, I'm cool with that. We can discuss my newest business plan that I'd love to have you and your friends invest in. Because of the sensitivity of it, I'll need cash in small, unmarked, non-sequential bills. Meet me at the park bench at midnight. Be sure you aren't followed, or your investment is forfeit. You know, standard terms.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
For a bunch of techies on Slashdot it's hard to understand. It's like a car mechanic saying, "How could you not know your valves needed adjusting by how the engine was running? Now your motor is destroyed"
I whole-heartedly agree. However, how many people are willing to tinker under the hood of their car, or make modifications to it? Most people don't even bother to perform basic maintenance, such as checking tyre pressure.
The difference with computers is that everyone with a little bit of knowledge thinks they're an expert. Installing an application is, conceptually, not that different to say, performing an oil change. Both aren't that particularly difficult, but they require some knowledge, and if you get it wrong, the results can be disastrous.
Along your theme, it's amazing how many cars have been brought to me in the last year by friends where a professional mechanic said it wasn't safe to drive, and presented with a quote of over $1,000 USD, just to find out that it was perfectly safe.
One in particular, I went item by item down the list of "repairs" only to find that it needed new spark plugs. The shop had completely overlooked the rack and pinion being worn beyond use (i.e., unsafe to drive), and the brakes leaking (i.e., unsafe to drive). They would have repaired their list, charged over $1,000, and handed back a death trap.
The real repairs were more than the value of the vehicle, and it now sits in a junk yard.
I've noticed that women are well targeted for these repairs, but it's not exclusive to them.
I went to have new tires mounted on my car. I generally do my own repairs, but I don't have a mounting nor balancing machine, so tires have to be done by a shop. I bring my own tires though. Last time I had two tires put on, they were very insistent that my front brakes were terribly worn. I thanked them for their advice, and picked up a new set of front pads on my way home ($35 vs $150). I did the front brakes at my leisure, just to find that the front pads weren't worn beyond 50%. Since I had already bought the pads, I went ahead and put the new ones on, and now the old worn pads (still 50% good) sit by my toolbox, in case someone needs them.
Shops love people saying "Fix whatever is wrong.". That's an open invitation to rape the customer. It's better to become aware of how your vehicle works, or make friends with someone who is honest. My friends will usually come to me first. Sometimes I'll send them back to the shop with the ok to do the work, but not usually. The last "urgent" brake job, I told the person to come back to me in 6 months or so, and I'd re-evaluate their brake condition. With all new parts (new pads, new rotors, per the shop quote), the price would have been $250 and a handshake. The shop wanted $1,500. I know they'll come back to me in 6 months because I'm honest.
My field is IT, but I've been working on cars for over 20 years. I don't charge for my work, but they always pay what they believe my time to have been worth, which has always been fair. It's a good way to make a few bucks on the weekends. :) It's not terribly regular work, but it's honest work for honest pay.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
Then you'd best lock up Bill Gates and the Windows 95 development team, because it did pretty much the same thing.
Except, of course, that bit where it would require admin credentials to access...
I concur, it still amazes me how many fall for that "old PC is slow" crap, when it is often their own or their loved ones total stupidity. I had a customer bring in a Toshiba laptop a couple of years ago. He wanted to know if we could "get it to run a little longer" so he could buy a new one. I thought it was a damned nice laptop, early Core Duo, 2Gb of RAM, 80Gb HDD, at least according to the specs.
When I began to fire it up I knew there was trouble when the thrashing began before it even reached the "WinXP" boot screen. My boss at the time refused to let me just wipe it, because he wanted to see if it would "beat his record" of 2378 viruses on one machine. Oh boy, did it ever beat the record. Final total before I gave up and wiped the thing was 3754 viruses. And that don't count the toolbars and all the crap he had in the taskbar.
It turned out this guy was what we at the shop called a "click whore" in that ANYTHING he downloaded or saw, he would click on. I mean anything. Mp3.exe, avi.exe, he had Limewire+Gnucleus+bearshare, all running at the same time, and especially if you added the word "lesbian" to anything, like a 5Mb "hot_lesbians.avi.exe" damned if he wouldn't click on it. Now I know that those that have that stupid "don't show known extensions" will get caught occasionally, but the P2P apps would show him ahead of time the .exe and damned if he wouldn't click anyway.
And you are SO right about businesses. I have walked into so many SMB shops that had P2P running and didn't even have a clue it was there. Like you some of these apps had been running for years without anybody even using them, just sitting there and sucking bandwidth. Many here would "blame the parents" but I have found that there are so many that use computers day to day that look at them as a "magic box" that it just ain't funny. As long as the "magic box" continues to run, they are just grateful and will put up with the slowdowns until it gets too much to bear. But for so many if the "magic box" works that is the only thing they care about.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
But that doesn't make it okay for somebody to aquire bank information and impersonate whoever owned the computer. Only sociopaths would think that the dude who is gonna be locked up should be set free.
Hopefully a small light swould pop up saying "Please do not press this button again"
Uhhhh....he was talking about Win95. Remember Win95? The one that pretty much had no security at all? Pretty much any of the Win9X branch from Win95-WinME were a bad joke on security and permissions. I mean when you can bypass physical security by simply hitting the escape key i can't imagine their network security was any better. Plus with DOS accessible underneath I bet it would be trivial to simply feed it some DOS commands to bypass pretty much anything you wanted bypassed. IF he was talking WinNT I might agree, but Win95?
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
My apologies, I missed the 95 part of in. In this case GP is just plain wrong, since administrative shares are only available on WinNT-family OSes, and were never present in Win9x at all.
Simple.
Ground the kid for defying his parents.
Confiscate his computer and work it over with a sledgehammer.
Seriously though, disobedience should be a punishable offense. I had my computer "seized and forfeited" once, and I behaved better after that.
Network admins motto;
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity"
1. Legal interpretation aside, this guy practically turned himself in leaving such an obvious digital trail. Had he been intercepting the mail he would have been much harder to track down. Unless it can be shown that making the act of viewing documents illegal will reduce the incidence of identity theft, it would seem the preservation of freedom on this topic remains in our best interest.
2. Before grabbing document x (most likely shared by mistake), ask yourself whether you want to be on the shortlist with morally-challenged folks like this guy.
"Sorry for the flame, /., but people that are blind enough to believe laws are some sort of unchangeable and divine Truth need be burned."
"Thou shall not murder" Except when one will not get caught.
"Thou shall not commit adultery" As long as Hilary's in town.
"Thou shall not steal" Unless it's the RIAA.
"Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor" Yes I did see mmaniaci dipping from the till.
"Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's possessions" Hmmm nice tools. He won't mind if I "borrow" them.
I see this every week, though I've never repaired more than 500+ on just one disk, do you have any screenshots to share? :), but makes me think, is it really hard to push for a "PC Driving License"? I mean, not because theres no kid harmed means there is no harm done, be it the interwebz bandwidth or the wasted energy on CPU cycles.
To make matters worse, it seems that 'the older generation' are being convinced into purcahsing lesss secure operating systems. Case in point: I built my mother in law a debian based desktop machine (she only wanted to use facebook). Yet, somehow she was convinced to purchase a laptop (she only uses the machine at a desk) with Windows Vista. She now has 'a virus' and has had to pay PC World money to fix it.
Idiot. And to think my son shares genes with her...don't tell my missus I said that.
Many ppl on limewire share the c drive. I'm shocked this hasn't happened long ago. Honestly search for 'passwords' and you get people's personal pw list in a nice txt. The only thing protecting them is 1trillion other files named password promising porn.
Is it up to parental responsibility now?
McHammer: I'm pointing at you! Angelina Jolie, Keano Reeves, Laurence-Curtis "Cowboy" Fishburne, STAND UP! Let me go on record as saying that there is no place in decent society for fakes, charlatans and tricksters like you who prey on the gullibility of innocent people. You're beneath the contempt of this court. And believe me, if my hands were not tied by the unalterable fetters of the law, a law which has become in my view far too permissive and inadequate in it's standards of punishment, I would invoke the tradition of our illustrious forebearers, reach back to a sterner, purer justice and have you burned at the stake!"
McHammer: Oh, my God! The trolls of Goatse and GNAA!
Stantz: Friends of yours?
McHammer: I tried them for phile shar1ng. I gave them The Giver and a court-ordered denial-DNS remedy of their domains.
Families live together longer than they ever did before. The New World Order tries to keep everyone stuck together to restrict their travel by means of economic warfare and commercial sham markets.
I am apauled at how a bunch of self-knighted nerds could get on slashdot and troll their filth that anyone that uses a computer is stupid. Legislators are stupid and put the blame on people that are blameless, and that is the reason this discussion has eschewed blame because they want to conceal the fact that any data that is Government-important should not blame the people that didn't know.
I don't make any sense. Taxes are private law, issued from a cloaked king's bench, not public. Taxes are proprietary and limit propert rights, and decided by whomever has a controlling interest in the property at question. Most taxes today are unlawful because nowhere was such present at the signing of a contract to agree to convert lawful use to any such taxable event. Good Day, sir.
Sorry, never thought to take screens. I was just the poor schmuck that had to fix the damned thing, it was the boss that cared to see if it "beat the record". I just wanted to get the slow ass thing done. If I would have had my way we would have never seen how many viruses was on it, because I would have saved a few things with a Linux LiveCD and then nuked the OS.
Now as far as that "PC driver's license" thing? I don't think you've really thought that through. My neighbor, a retired NASA engineer, had something insightful about such a thing when I asked why he didn't just fix his own boxes. He said he did, during the days of his Commodore 128 ( he would love to have another one, if anybody knows where I could pick one up) when he could be confident that he knew what each piece of code would do along the path, but the things are just so complex now that he says it just isn't worth his time to keep up.
And I think that hits the nail on the head better than any 'teach the user" BS, because time is simply too short and too many attack vectors exist. I mean you got your 0 day, your driveby, your OS specific bugs, browser bugs, media player bugs, the list could go on forever. With a vehicle there are only x number of ways to screw up. With a networked computer the ways to get pwned is almost limitless, so having a license in the end really wouldn't do much, as no matter how well you educated the user they would get bit by something you never thought up.
That is why ultimately I go with a "don't think" approach, which I find works really well. That is I try to automate as much as possible, so thinking isn't required to be safe. Firefox with ABP (to cut down on ad related attack vectors) and Windows autoupdates, I have Comodo AV/Firewall set to do the same as well as scanning twice weekly on a schedule they can live with, same with Spybot, Kilte Mega to keep them from downloading dodgy codecs, etc. I have found by using this approach I can cut down a good 85% of the infections. Now they pretty much have to ignore the warnings and do it anyway to get hosed. And with Almeza I can have many of the installs automated so I don't have to waste MY time installing. All in all I would say this is a better approach than trying to educate the user enough that they can stop all of today's malware attack vectors. Because the PCs of today are just too complex for the average Joe to keep up with.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
If you have a kid, you should NEVER SHARE A COMPUTER with it. It is not practical to expect parents to monitor everything a kid does on a computer, or to ensure any level of security on a computer used by a kid.
Get your kids their own computers and assume they are sharing that computer with a hacker and all of 4chan. Prohibit the use of the computer for any financial transaction. A kid's computer is only "safe" if there is nothing worth stealing on that computer.
Er, share a computer with "it"? Your compassion in reference to gender is stunning. It can be practical for the critical younger years to monitor what is done, and I sure as hell would not allow rights to install or even execute from an external source the software in question. Sorry, but my kids don't need Limewire to finish their homework, which is 99% of my justification for them even having a computer at all.
On top of that, (besides me) who is going to take the time to properly internally firewall off "4chanNet" running in your kids bedrooms from "ParentNet"? Average Linksys noob barely gets past the wifi config, let alone DMZ segments. If you're telling me to assume, then their machine has already been malwared, infected, trojaned, zombied, and added to a botnet, and I sure as hell ain't gonna share the same LAN segment with that shit..
Just control what is installed and running everywhere in your home, that's all. It's not that damn hard to control and configure user and access rights, nor is it that hard to show your children iTunes and instill some sense of morality and actually pay for shit by earning it.
Your definitions are incorrect. If you make up your own definitions to words, you will have a hard time communicating effectively.
So what's the alternative oh great and wise one?
Home schooling?
Quit work and raise your kids in a homeless shelter?
Tell me, please. I'm in need of enlightenment.
-john
My mother was an auto mechanic. Mechanics always get a surprise when they try that trick on her. (she has a very short temper.:P)
Space Shuttle was a program that strapped humans to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math
That's great. :) I love seeing women doing stuff that they're "not suppose to do". In the last few weeks, I've worked on several cars where the owners (mostly women) had been given huge quotes for "essential" work, yet found that it was unnecessary.
The last one was a car that was occasionally overheating. It "needed" a water pump, where they would also replace the timing belt and thermostat. (the pump is behind the timing belt. Weird car.). I gave it a proper evaluation, which took more than the 30 seconds the others had given it, and found it to just be the thermostat. It does have other problems, but those were nonessential. So far it's been evaluated by 4 other mechanics, but she made the mistake of repeating what the others had told her. I not only evaluated the problem, but explained to her how the cooling system worked, and why it was happening.
She happened to have the shop manual, so after explaining it, I flipped through the pages to where it talked about the thermostat, They not only talked about evaluating the symptoms and testing it in detail (cold water, then hot water, and monitor it's response), and how different behaviors would make the car behave. Basically, it's sticking partly open.
Most of the others were hugely over priced easy repairs. I'm amazed how shops will try to take advantage of people. My friends appreciate having me around. Even if I can't do the work (time or equipment constraints), they can now go to another shop and say "I *ONLY* want this done."
I used to get a huge laugh out of a local Sears. My mom would go down to get tires or whatever. I will have checked it over carefully first. They'd quote her $300 in repairs. She'd bring it home, and I'd check out the repairs that they said were necessary, and they weren't. Next trip (many months later), she'd get a new quote for $300 in repairs, but they were always for something different. It was pretty clear that they had already figured $300 was a decent price point, where most customers would pay without getting too nervous about the bill. Lately they've been over $1000. I don't know where they think the money is coming from, but I guess at least some people are falling for it. It's driven friends, and friends of friends, to me to check the quote first. But hey, I can honestly say once it was a legitimate quote. That was pretty easy though, the car was beyond it's life expectancy (and the duct tape was wearing out). They could have listed almost anything, and I would have agreed with it. I recommended a tow to the junk yard as the best option. The necessary repairs were more than the car was worth, and it would take me weeks to make it serviceable again.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.