Domain: amanwithapencil.com
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Comments · 6
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Here's to hoping - Europe as well?
There used to be a great document at http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe.html that detailed the situation in 2007 for the UK. Thankfully, there's archive.org
http://web.archive.org/web/20100702205054/http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe.html
Adobe even replied to some inquiries, and you can see some of their excuses in:
http://web.archive.org/web/20100526120202/http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe_spin.htmlThe UK, just as Australia and Europe, were - and still are (at one point it was even cheaper to get the boxed version than to get the download version) - basically being screwed over (and good luck checking that - their various international websites make it a pain in the ass to compare pricing) and the only reason for this is that the market will pay anyway.
Why? Because 1. It's Adobe's products. If you have an interest in them, you're probably in an industry where you have little choice, so you'd probably pay twice the price and limit yourself to some grumbling on twitter, and 2. you probably earn the price of these products back on just a handful of jobs, after which you'd only have to worry about the upgrade pricing.It's one market I wouldn't mind Apple upsetting, not one bit.
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Re:Gushing, ignoring the important issues
There's always the European market. Especially since 'round here Adobe software is even more expensive.
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Can't rape the willing...
...really, the only reason 'IT' companies get away with it is... because we let them. Adobe nearly stated as much. See:
http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe.html
See also the 'spin' page for very common arguments (read: excuses) for why pricing in the EU (and other countries) is higher, along with debunking statements:
http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe_spin.htmlI do have to admit that Adobe has since then adjusted pricing a bit more favorably...
I don't have current numbers, only from half a year ago; no good, and comparing their store prices takes a good 2 hours just to navigate, make sure you select the correct product (English language), etc. .. all non-parallel because their store gets confused when you are trying to see pricing for products in 2 different tabs.) ...but it's still a pretty good chunk above the U.S. pricing. -
Can't rape the willing...
...really, the only reason 'IT' companies get away with it is... because we let them. Adobe nearly stated as much. See:
http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe.html
See also the 'spin' page for very common arguments (read: excuses) for why pricing in the EU (and other countries) is higher, along with debunking statements:
http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe_spin.htmlI do have to admit that Adobe has since then adjusted pricing a bit more favorably...
I don't have current numbers, only from half a year ago; no good, and comparing their store prices takes a good 2 hours just to navigate, make sure you select the correct product (English language), etc. .. all non-parallel because their store gets confused when you are trying to see pricing for products in 2 different tabs.) ...but it's still a pretty good chunk above the U.S. pricing. -
Too Expensive - Especially 'abroad'
Of course it's too expensive - it's what people will pay for it, and it's what people will pay for it because it's the defacto standard and they have no proper choice.
Yes, yes, I know.. you can use The Gimp! Or Paint Shop Pro! And while many home users most certainly could - no, they do not give a rats' ass about CMYK separation - they also hear that it is -the- choice among professionals.. and will thus go for it anyway. And professionals don't really need Photoshop most of the time either. What CG shop uses CMYK? What web developer uses the Panorama stitching function? Come on, give me a few anecdotal cases, and I'll show you thousands that make drop-shadows for buttons.
Until something or somebody can break through that defacto standard stuff, Photoshop (as buggy, archaic, and overpriced as it is) will remain the #1 choice... and will remain as expensive as it is.In fact, things got more expensive... Compared to April 2008 for the same CS3 products ('same' in name, not in featureset, I suppose).
CS4 Design Standard: $1399 vs $1199
CS4 Web Premium: $1699 vs $1599
Contribute CS4: $199 vs $169
Photoshop CS4: $699 vs $649But if you think that's bad, be glad you - at least, if you're in North America/United States - don't have to pay the "You love us so much, we'll let you to pay extra!"-charge. This is for the NL store as of September 22, exchange rate USD / EUR: 0.677620 (xe.net, indicative only), all prices excluding VAT (BTW) sourced from Adobe online store, all prices calculated back to dollars.
PRODUCT / USD US / USD NL
CS4 Design Standard / $1399 / $1873
CS4 Design Premium / $1799 / $2950
CS4 Web Standard / $999 / $1474
CS4 Web Premium / $1699 / $2507
CS4 Production Premium / $1699 / $2802
CS4 Master Collection / $2499 / $4131
After Effects CS4 / $999 / $1622
Contribute CS4 / $199 / $294
DreamWeaver CS4 / $399 / $663
Fireworks CS4 / $299 / $441
Flash CS4 / $699 / $1032
Illustrator CS4 / $599 / $958
InCopy CS4 / $249 / $367
InDesign CS4 / $699 / $1105
Photoshop CS4 / $699 / $1017
Photoshop CS4 Extended / $999 / $1578
Premiere Pro CS4 / $799 / $1253
Soundbooth CS4 / $199 / $294On average, that's a price increase that seems to have no good reason* of 53.76% on average, with DreamWeaver CS4 taking the crown at 66% and CS4 Design Standard as the least increase at 34%.
* I should qualify the 'no good reason' bit, as otherwise there will be a slew of responses on why there's a price increase.. localization, local support, bla-dee-bla. Thankfully, I don't have to qualify it myself - another person made an excellent set of pages on this matter, and I suggest those who feel like posting such reasons first read them:
http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe.html - Adobe is ripping off European (and other non-US) customers
It deals with the most common 'reasons' and debunks them. I'll add one - most of the products do not have native Dutch versions and those that do are hardly sold. It's slightly dated (being for the CS3 launch), but the same things still apply. It also gives one very true answer that the author dug up from an interview, and serves as the basis for my earlier "You love us so much" statement:Burkett said that the second criterion Adobe uses to establish pricing is "market research that establishes the value customers place on the products"; in other words, what the market will bear.
"We do testing in each region and get feedback from customers," Burkett explained. "We have not found that the value fluctuates much over the years. The value associated with CS3 is incredible, and customers react to that. What I've been hearing from customers is that they see the value and appreciate it."
I don't have anything against Adobe, or their products**, but I most certainly do take issue with their pricing in the various markets. Oh, and I also take
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So can Europeans buy from you in America?
If not.. then your argument is moot; especially for software.
No, Europeans can't just go ahead and buy the much cheaper version of a CS3 product from the American store - Adobe just won't have it. Heck, if you're in Germany, you can't buy in Belgium.
So it's not just that Europeans are willing to pay it - they often don't have a choice (presuming that they have already established that the Adobe product is the only viable product).
I've looked into the numbers (I haven an ODF for the curious), and you can expect several English CS3 products to go for -more than twice- the price of the U.S. English version in Europe, if you take into account the exchange rate. Europeans used to feel shafted thanks to the "$100 -> 100" thing that was played, but now they add some extra on top.
I agree with the GPP poster, though - they get away with it because Europeans let them get away with it.