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...excercising the fundamental right, enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, to "alter or abolish" any government which tramples on my basic rights to Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness and/or stops "deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed". i.e. - i'm seriously considering buying an SSG300 0 and setting up 900m from the Capitol. The tree of liberty from time to time must be watered with the blood of patriots...i'm feeling that it's time for a real revolution. none of this civil disobedience, or ACLU lawsuits, or protests, or sitins, or any of that pussy crap. i'm talking an army of citizens storming Washington, armed to the teeth. anybody else ever have that desire?

We are talking about the most massively unAmerican activity since voluntary compliance income taxes. The government wants me to install software on my computer, specific to a certian insecure comercial operating system I don't trust to begin with. No fucking way. At any rate, I happen to work for the government, and I've also held a few commercial jobs, and speaking on a reletivity scale, the government network has a much better security model than any place I've ever worked

They got M$? They are incompetent, fanatical or not because they can not possibly autit all of M$'s massive core of crap, nor can they trust the tools M$ provides them. M$ has no security at all.

This new uberpatch will NEVER accomplish it's stated goal. IT WILL BE A CARNIVORE that uses your machine's cycles to do it's dirty work. There's an obvious cure for this, the use of free audited operating systems. If they would come out and advise that I'd be much much happier, and NO I don't need your stinking secret patch.

Remember the fourth amendment? You know, security in your personal papers and effects? This is NOT the kind of security the the bill of rights had in mind.

Mr. Ashcoft, I call on you to remember your oath of office to uphold the constitution of the United States of America. Let me remind you exacly what you swore to uphold:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Does this apply to per-minute ISDN?

Talk to a lawyer (perhaps after looking up that section of the U.S. Code to see if you think it's worth it).

Oh, and bookmark that link. Keep it around. It's the law of the land, worth knowing about. You can't just read it in a vacuum (parts of it aren't at all enforceable because of Court rulings, executive orders, the Constitution, or for other legal reasons), but it's worth knowing about if you live in the U.S.

Sumner

Does this apply to per-minute ISDN?

Talk to a lawyer (perhaps after looking up that section of the U.S. Code to see if you think it's worth it).

Oh, and bookmark that link. Keep it around. It's the law of the land, worth knowing about. You can't just read it in a vacuum (parts of it aren't at all enforceable because of Court rulings, executive orders, the Constitution, or for other legal reasons), but it's worth knowing about if you live in the U.S.

Sumner

Huh? Declaration of Independence is a declaration, one-sided document that indicates a position and places no obligation on anyone.

...except that said document takes the position "whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these [rights], it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it," and uses that position to justify the existence of the United States Government. Some people believe that taking this position places certain obligations upon the U.S. government, namely that the government must honor said rights, or else lose its moral authority to govern.

You might want to re-read the Declaration of Independence before making any more broad, sweeping statements about it; it's not just a list of complaints about British rule. It also contains some fundamental declarations about the role of government and the rights of the individual, and those declarations, in principle and practice, remain in force.

Now, before anyone goes and claims that the phrase "separation of church and state" is "right there" in the constitution, perhaps a trip to the U.S. Consitution is in order. It doesn't even have the word "church" in it.

Still insistent that we should have separation of church and state? Fine, then stop prosecuting the Catholic priests for molesting children, as that's a violation of the law, and priests are church officials. They should be separate, shouldn't they?

Although the Declaration of Independence (1776) was written before the Constitution (1787). Besides the Declaration of Independance is not a living document, where as the Constitution is, in my opinion. The DoI was a one-time shot telling the King of England that we (USA) didn't answer to him anymore. And that was the end of it. The Constitution, on the other hand, is the set of rules which govern all of our laws and regulations to this day. This is the reason Congress would amend the Constitution. Amending the Delcaration of Independence would be quite silly and pointless.

Although the Declaration of Independence (1776) was written before the Constitution (1787). Besides the Declaration of Independance is not a living document, where as the Constitution is, in my opinion. The DoI was a one-time shot telling the King of England that we (USA) didn't answer to him anymore. And that was the end of it. The Constitution, on the other hand, is the set of rules which govern all of our laws and regulations to this day. This is the reason Congress would amend the Constitution. Amending the Delcaration of Independence would be quite silly and pointless.

• the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,
  
• that all men are created equal
  
• that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights
  
• with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence
  

• the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,
  
• that all men are created equal
  
• that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights
  
• with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence
  

• the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,
  
• that all men are created equal
  
• that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights
  
• with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence
  

That would take a revolution, and not in just one country. Maybe it's time for that to happen again. Maybe we should read the Declaration of Independence, and contemplate whether what Jefferson wrote then describes what we have now. Here is a link.http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hall/charters _of_freedom/declaration/declaration_transcription. html