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Telemarketers and Cell Phones?
jjshoe asks: "I have received one bumbling voice mail from a woman who seemed very confused as to why I wasn't there, like her auto dialer transfered her call to my cellphone in time for my voice mail, one missed call, and one in which I actually talked to the woman. My concern is that this all costs me minutes, which of course equals money. What laws are out there for me? What bills are out there waiting to head their way towards becoming laws? What can I do to be compensated for time? After I screamed at the tele-marketer lady she said she would mark me as a wrong number, but I still don't believe this is enough." Considering most tele-marketers use auto-dialers, would it be so hard to grab the definitive list of area-code/extensions that are exclusively used for cellular phones and just apply that to their dial-out lists?
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette's website was the only site I could find that had any information on cellphones and solicitation.
Note the first question from 'JOHN PUHATCH':
Q: Regarding the sole use of wireless phones as an alternative to a land line connection, as I have done for nearly two years: You stated that tele-marketers do not call wireless phones. If only that were the case. Tele-marketing agencies have regularly contacted me on my cell phone concerning everything from vacation homes to long-distance service. My assumption is that these agencies secure my cell phone number by buying information from the plethora of forms and applications that require home telephone numbers but leave no place for a cell phone.And the answer basically amounts to, although we do have some protections, we can still be screwed:
'A: [...]In short, John, you lost your chance at a telemarketing-free life when you filled out those forms with your phone number. May others learn from your mistake.'Does anyone have any advice on things I can do to get these tele-marketers to stop calling on my cellphone?"
Most land-based phone companies allow anonymous-call blocks these days. Are there cellular phone companies doing anything similar?
The margin is great, basically, the costs are carried by the consumer. Additionlly, with the proliferation of plans out there, agreeing to telemarketing calls will part of activation. Win Win for us. You may not like it, but that is the way it is.
I sold out for stock options.
..."Kill 'em all and let god sort'em out"
BTW - Anyone that says "I did this for a living" is a blatant troll. Don't fall for it.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Look on the bright side. If you're billed for the call, there's gonna be a paper trail back to the telemarketer. Charged them a couple hundred bucks an hour for your time.
just ask this guy.
Creationists are a lot like zombies. Slow, but powerful and numerous. And they all want to eat our brains.
My cell phone is my only phone. When you have "home phone" as a required field on most order forms, you have to give out something. Then, later, someone calls to sell you a hotel vacation, or Viagra. You can tell them it's your cell phone, and ask them where you can bill them for your minutes, but they just hang up on you.
These days, I just don't answer blocked ID's, and my voicemail says so. You need a valid caller ID to call me. Yes, it's pathetic and sub-optimal, but it's the system our lawmakers have left us with. Pay to be harassed, or become unavailable.
Of course, I always buy the Viagra, so it's not that bad a deal.
For the time being immediately ask for them to place you on your do not call list and at least they won't call you back.
"keep looking shocked and move closer to the cake"
-Homer Simpson
Last I checked telemarketers weren't allowed to use cellphone ranges for phone spam (unless you somehow opt in, which I'd suppose theres a great chance of).
If I got a call on my cell with some "company" offering services to me, you'd bet that I'd be demanding to speak to management and taking down their name and number.
I think with some phone providers you can actually report those calls to them too and get a possible refund, or get the business blocked.
I tell them I'm on a cellphone and it's illegal for them to call cellphones in accordance with the 1997 Telecom Act, since we end up paying for the minutes. Then I tell them I'm a telecommunications consultant for Qwest/XO/Whoever. I then tell them to take me off the list, ask who they are, and them tell them that I am reporting them to my local Public Utilities Commission.
That should work. (No idea if it REALLY works or if its even correct, but if they're calling my spamming my cellphone, screw 'em.)
"would it be so hard to grab the definitive list of area-code/extensions that are exclusively used for cellular phones and just apply that to their dial-out lists"
Unfortunately, this would not work in most cities, as area codes are used for both mobile and land-line numbers.
When a telemarketer calls, have them put you on their "do not call list." This is a differnt thing than "take me off your list."
Whenever the marketing company buys a new list of numbers, they are required to remove all the numbers that have been placed on their "do not call list."
I have been living without telemarketers for two years now.
You know, here in Washington State (through the Attorney General's office) we have an opt-out list for SPAM. Sign up to the list, and mass-emailers must (required by law) cross check their lists against the list the Attorney General has registered. In theory, a great program.
The with the proposed cell phone registry is just the same as with the e-mail list: It does not work.
.....
A magical phrase is, "Place me on your do not call list."
--
http://www.aikiweb.com - AikiWeb Aikido Information
I've received exactly one telemarketer call on my cell since I got it. My land line gets deluged by them, however. My solution was to turn off the ringer on my land line and use my cell phone as my primary number. No more annoying phone calls peddling crap while I try to eat!
Plus, I can still always use the land phone for outgoing calls.
The state of Missouri has a no-call list you can get your number put on, and when they call you after that, it's a minimum $500 fine for each call.
I recently had a call on my work cell phone. I simply told the operator when she asked for the owner of the house that she had called a mobile phone, there was no house. She thanked me, appologized, and hung up.
Awk! Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight. Pieces of seven... ERROR: General Protection Fault. [Paroty Error.]
What's this? More whining on Ask Slashdot! Can it be true that telemarketers get your phone number when you enter it on forms? I know I never use the batphone number when signing up for pr0n sites, and so far, the only voice mails we get are from Commissioner Gordon. And that's as it should be.
Also, it strikes me that voicemail is an optional service, so no one is really forced into spending any minutes listening to it. Can you confirm, Batman?
If the cellular phone companies are indeed up to no good, then we should set them straight. But I don't want this to be a case of wrongful accusations.
What should we do, Batman?
Even if you mask out mobile numbers for the auto diallers, several telecompanies are providing a combined service that will redirect you home phone to you mobile. In that case you will end up receiving the message on you mobile phone anyway.
In regards to time, I'll usually just say goodbye...
But time is an issue. Just think about spam, commercials, etc... but I believe it would only cloud up things if we should start making new laws. What about using existing laws about harassment.
-:) Oh no - not again.
www.rednebula.com
See http://www.junkbusters.com/ht/en/fcc.html. You can sue for $500 every time a company calls your cell phone. This is a national law--the Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991.
I am a user of Sprint PCS, as is my dad, my mom, my sister, and my girlfriend. Each one of use regularly receive calls that flash an "Unkown ID" on the caller id screen, and every time we answer the call it quickly hangs up. Each time it does this I am charged a minute. While I have plentiful minutes, how about the people that regularly go over their minutes? Is the PCS company using autodialers to generate revenue?
Being someone that installs and services auto-dialers I can say for a fact that if you get a marketing call on a cell phone it is a mistake. It is illegal for them to call your cell phone because of the very fact that it directly costs you money. I have not had a marketer call me in 2 years because I have only a cell phone. The people who make number lists for auto dialers cross-reference their list with a list of cell phone number blocks. Most of the time the mistakes are made by small in-house call centers.
Life is Short and Hard like a body building Elf
IIRC, I read somewhere that the reason that telemarketers don't call cell phones is because most plans are "per-minute", meaning that time you spend on the phone is time that's costing you, unlike the flat-fee for unlimited phone usage on your house phone.
Because of this, telemarketers could be held monetarily liable for the minutes (which equal $$$ in mobile phone plans) that you "lost" talking to them.
Watch the Teaser Trailer for "The Lightning Thief" Her
Actually, you can tell them to put you on a do not call list per telemarketer. Then, if that telemarketer calls you again, you can sue them in small claims court for your minutes and damages. Some skip tracing should help you find the offending company so that you can recover the money. It is even better if it is a local outfit calling you.
You will never stop receiving unsolicited bulk advertising in any medium until it is cheaper to not send unsolicited bulk advertising to you in that medium.
This includes cellphones, mail, email, pagers, and banner ads.
Anytime I receive a call on my cellphone from a telemarketer, I say: "This is a cellphone" and hang up.
What you need to do is ensure that your cellphone provider realises you want to use your cellphone to not receive advertising. If you do receive it, of course tell the person it's a cellphone and hang up, but then contact your phone provider and tell them you just lost a minute to a telemarketer, and you want that minute credited to your account.
Ask also to have a free service that blocks telemarketing calls (ie: as the submitter mentions, a way to block calls from callers who've masked their phone number).
fifth sigma, inc.
I purchaced a phone and plan from SprintPCS only a month ago and recived a very simular voice mail. Sounds like telemarketing spam is soon to hit cell phones. Why is this not illegal?
- what is the definition of simultanagnosia?! I've been meaning to look it up!
If all you have is your cellphone and no home phone # like me, get a dedicated Voicemail number, they're like $5 a month and you can make it seem like its your home number with an answering machine. Give this number out as your home number on everything, then just check it every so often. Don't ever give out your cell number. It's cheaper than having a home phone line and you can give it to everyone, even credit card companies, which are the worst telemarketing offenders.
-BlingBlings Flossin it
A guy I work with gets calls a few times a week (usually at odd hours, so he gets voicemail.) The calls usually are along the lines of "Hey this is -firstname- from -companyname-, the state says it is ok to dig. Thanks, seeya." When he does answer, the people don't seem to want to talk and tell him who they were expecting to get.
We to this day don't know who the callers are trying to get, but there sure are a lot of callers, and whoever is supposed to get the calls sure digs a lot of big holes.
Someone probably has a document in their customers hands with the wrong cellphone number on it. Makes for a good laugh every now and then.
-Pete
Soccer Goal Plans
yeah, john wayne was, but I forgot which movie.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Since this is a practice that costs the person being called, it seems that it would fall under the same type of law as junk faxes. But then, so would spam. I haven't yet gotten a telemarketing call on my cell phone, but it would make me pretty irate. And when I get irate my elected representatives hear about it. Which is probably the only way to get the law updated.
"Suppose you were an idiot..... And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeate myself."
According to the TCPA (Telephone Consumer Protection Act), it is illegal for a business to dial mobile phone numbers for unsolicited telemarketing. Unless there are some weird circumstances on how they got hold of your phone number, you've just earned yourself $500-$1500. Congratulations! You now just need to figure out how to claim it :)
A good resource for this kind of thing is Junkbusters
From what I've been told it is illegal to set aside a area code or prefix for cell phones and pagers. It "is an invasion of privcy". What crap if they used specific area codes for cell phones and pagers then they wouldn't have to keep spliting up area codes for regular customers.
Yeah, I've got a list of phone numbers they can take off their lists: all of them.
Seriously, why don't these people just stop calling and get a real job? Who honestly welcomes a call from a telemarketer? Has anyone ever bought anything sold by a telemarketer? If so,what is your address so I can beat you senseless for encouraging them?
Nathan's blog
Actually, the real question is: why do you have to pay when someone calls you? The answer is simple: the phone system is broken. Fix it, and solve all the problems at once without any kind of bill or lawsuit. Easier said than done, but Europe, Asia, Africa and South America managed it (not sure about Australia). Granted, they leapfrogged the US by going to GSM directly. That's not a reason to stay behind.
Nobox: Only simple products.
In the IS department of course. So the laws, at least of 5 years ago, went as such:
- Some states, such as Florida, have a state-wide do-not-call list you can get on.
- Dialing of randomly or sequentially generated numbers is prohibited, you must get them from a list somewhere. Although the place I worked for did it anyhow at the request of clients.
- If you ask them to place them on their do-not-call list they must.
- UPON REQUEST THEY MUST MAIL YOU A COPY OF THEIR DO-NOT-CALL POLICY. Ask, I bet it will stump 99% of the telemarketers.
- They can still call you even if you're on that list if they have an "existing business relationship" with you, such as if you have their credit card and they want to sell you insurance.
- House of Representatives,
- Senate
- Congressional
webpages don't have anything listing telemarketers or cell phones in your area of interest.Give your lawmakers a a call!
(202) 224-3121
Crapdot
News from birds. Stuff that splatters.
Me: Hello, Hello?
Telemarketer:Hello sir, I'm calling from [some bank name]. I'm offering credit cards at special low rate.
Me:Yeah, what cards are you offering?
Telemarketer:We offer AmEx, Visa, Mastercard, and Diners Club.
Me: Cool, put me down for all 4!
Telemarketer: Pause... Umm, we only give you the one with the best rate.
Me:Oh, Ok, put me down for all 4.
Telemarketer:Pause. Ok, sir, I just need you to answer a few questions... Is your household income over $1000.00 per month?
Me: Nope.
Telemarketer:Ok, um household is EVERYONE in the home. Is it less that $1000.00?
Me: Yep, we make around $750.00 per month.
Telemarketer: Is this Mr. Mike Douglas?
Me: Nope.
Telemarketer: Who is this?
Me: Who is this?
Telemarketer: My name is Mike Pringle.
Me: What are you selling?
Telemarketer: I'm offering credit cards. Who is this?
Me: This is Mike Pringles. I'm Offering you a low low rate credit card, would you be intrested?
Telemarketer hangs up.
Solid Gold!
Not _all_ European ideas are bad ones. :)
-_Quinn
Reality Maintenance Group, Silver City Construction Co., Ltd.
wait till they start sending you SMS messages. its easy as hell to crapflood your phone with automated text messages.
four-oh-four
The Missouri no call list is fantastic. I've extolled its virtues to many of my friends and neighbors. Since both of my land lines (a personal line and a fax line that SWBT doesn't know is a business line...heheh...) are on the attorney general's list, I've recieved very few telemarketing calls. And the ones I've received were probably from companies that are exempt - credit card companies, for example.
Plus, Missouri prosecutes violators. Gotta love that.
However, as far as I know, the Missouri law does not cover cell phones. In fact, we tried to put our cell on the list, the no-call folks called back and said that since it was a cell, it couldn't be on the list. But - as other posters have pointed out - I believe that in my area cell phones are automatically off of call lists anyway. And in the case of my specific area, the *area* *code* may be the same as land lines, but the *exchange* (that second set of 3 numbers) is different for cells. Thus marking cell numbers and putting them out of bounds for telemarketers.
We've not recieved one solitary telemarketing call on our cell.
But as always, milage varies.
Consigned to flames of woe.
I live in Los Angeles, and cell phones have the same area codes as residential phones. If they're just dialing numbers, what tells them a particular number is a cell phone? Is there a list of prefixes that are reserved for cell phones?
That's not so easy as a lot of people forward their home phone to their cell phones. I do always take in telling the telemarketer who thought they were calling home that they have called me on my cell phone and that it's costing me money to talk to them. Some guy actually told me to send him a bill.
Lazy not Coward.
I tried to sign-up for Hollywood Video dvd rental card and put down my cell number but since the area code for the cell was different then the area of my address, "the man" said it was their policy not to accept cell phone numbers as home numbers. I told him it was my only phone. That didn't help.
So I boycott Hollywood Video.
-chris in MD
The poster raises a number of important points.
America, you're better off wrote J.W. Goethe, but in this case I disagree. In all of Europe, cell phone numbers can easily be identified as they have their own area code. While that may not prevent unsolicited calls (which are illegal in some if not all European states anyway), the simple fact that the caller pays for call and airtime usually will. Which - in my opinion - is only fair and makes my cell phone much more useful.
Just my 0.02
Alex -- No soup for you. Come back, one year!
Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder
Introducing those changes should help you.
It is illegal and fineable for telemarketers to call any cellular phone numbers known to the industry. So there is yer answer boys and girls.. IF you get a marketer calling, just say are you aware that this is a cell number that you are calling? If they say no, then throw the book at them, inform them that this is a cell number and you MUST cease and desist this call and put the number on their no-call list... I've had two such calls and both were stopped short by the previous statement.
First rule of holes; When in one, stop digging.
I love getting marketing calls on my cellphone. Possibly because we don't pay for incoming calls in the UK and possibly because I find it an intellectual challenge to keep them on the phone for as long as possible (in the knowledge that it's probably costing them 15p/minute to talk to me).
;-)
Yes, I have a lot of time on my hands.
Why on earth do Americans pay to receive phone calls?
Telemarketing to a number where the recipient has to pay by the minute is illegal under the Telephone Consumer Protection Act. See the U.S. Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Part I, Sec 227.
I got rid of my land line 3 years ago in favor of a cell phone and haven't had a single telemarketing call since then. I'm pretty surprised that you have; they're liable for a $500 fine for each such call placed.
Sumner
rage, rage against the dying of the light
# Telemarketers are people too. Although many telemarketers are colored, most of them are just like you and me. Please do not verbally abuse them - you won't hurt the industry, just somebody (not unlike myself) who is trying to make ends meet.
I'm sick of hearing this. No one forced them to be telemarketers. If they don't like the harassment they should GET ANOTHER JOB
I worked for a call center for a short while and on occasion we would need to make outgoing calls if requested by customers. Any outgoing calls to cell phone numbers were automatically disabled and could not be made even by the executive manager of the call center. I say this because it demonstrates that it is possible to avoid calling just cellular phones.
The outgoing call system did have a few false positives (marking a number as cellular when it was not) but I never did see a false negative.
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
Don't some cell service providers give you the first minute free? If so 1) Do not answer anonymous calls, 2) If that fails, hang up within 60 seconds of screaming at them.
You can also follow the telemarketing guidelines set forth by Junkbusters including their script in hopes of getting some sort of compliance out of them.
..in civilized countries we pay for making phone calls, not for receiving them.
- We don't pay for incoming calls. The result is the calling party pays the bill - and calling cell phones during the day can be expensive - circa 30p (40c)
/min. - We have a regulated scheme by which you can opt out of all telemarketing calls - the telephone preference service Click to sign up now. Companies calling numbers listed on the TPS face a 2000 GBP fine.
So you have two things to pursue. Campaign for the calling party to pay the cost of their call, and campaign for the government to legislate to make one country wide telemarketing opt-out list with fines for companies that ignore your request. Sadly I don't see either happening in the US any time soon.It was in his epic work Dallas does John Wayne. The original quote was "stuff all those penises up my ass and let me sort them out".
Anyone know of plans like this in the USA? Why isn't this widespread? I'd love to have a plan like that.
-=-=-=-=- osjedi uses Debian GNU/Linux. -=-=-=-=-
Ehm, scuse me, BUT when I lived in the states I couldn't get over how I had to pay for someone to call ME.
Here's my advise. Go live somewhere which has some logic like Europe (and probably every other continent in the world), where when you receive a call, only one person pays - the caller - and not the caller AND the receiver.
What a dumb ass (some americanisms stick) policy that is.
--- don't die an ignoramus. culture yourself
http://antitelemarketer.com/
:)
I'm not connected with this site in any way, but I've used info from there to rid myself of 90% of telemarketing calls. And I've had some fun with telemorons in the process.
everything in moderation
When I had a land line phone, if that number rang four times, it would automagically forward into my cell phone. If you listened to this while it happened, you heard some type of little click.
The county jail uses some sorta automated call out system, announcing that "inmate x" (recorded voice by inmate)is trying to get in touch with you, do you want to accept the collect call for $1.95 (or some other vigorously offensive amount for what is really just a local phone call.)
For some reason, that little click made on forwarding was enough for the computer to think I accepted the damn collect call...so I would pick up my cell phone and someone would say:
"yo? snake?"
"no...sorry...you got the wrong number."
"sheeeeeeeeeeet" (inmate hangsup)
This happened to me a bunch of times...and there was no fucking way i could get out of paying the 1.95 or whatever it was (without a huge amount of work.) Furthermore, when I did answer my landline, and refused the call, the inmate would continue trying back over and over again (since there was no way to tell him that he got the wrong number.) Finally, it truly pisses me off that some company out there is making a killing off those incarcerated (and their friends/families) simply to make what is in most instances a local phone call. Look: americans have had unlimited local calling for years, and many businesses have it now too. Why can't the county jail? (The minimal cost of the line and the phone is likely paid already by the county.)
NY has so many phone customers, they had to start using 917 for landlines, which used to be only used for cell phones. Since then, I've gotten a few spam calls.
-
ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only
Zap telemarketers free: Put the sound file on this web page at the beginning of your voice message on your answering machine. The telemarketer's equipment will hang up and delete your phone number. Kewl (if it works!).
http://home.attbi.com/~dakine/defeat.htm
I noticed Radio Shack has been advertising this device TeleZapper for $49 which sends a "disconnected" tone up the line everytime you answer a phone call so telemarketers with autodialers automatically tag your phone number as disconnected. Anyone have one of these things? I guess it'd be difficult to tell how well it works if number of spam calls received is still > 0.
A few resouces on the web to look at for the laws are:
Your local Attorney General's Office. The New Hampshire AG's office has some info about telemarketers here.
The FTC has a bunch of links here.
More here.
I can't put my finger on it right now, but it is illegal for a telemarketer to call a cell phone. The problem lies in tracking down who it is to sue if you want to pursue that route.
Hope this helps.
In the U.S., ask what company is calling. Then say "Put me on your do not call list." Say nothing more. That is very effective, since they can be sued in small claims court if they call back. Use exactly that language and nothing else, the sentence has legal meaning. This works perfectly for me.
Where else do you pay for incoming calls
Ummm, excuse me? Did I read this correctly?
So THAT is what the TPS reports are for...
Hmmm
Please(optional) put me on your do not call list.
I thought that telemarketers were required to use directories of numbers to do their business, that they couldn't just dial sequential numbers.
Otherwise, why the heck do I pay extra each month for an unlisted number?
When a telemarketer calls just say "Hold on a sec I'm drivin..." then scream and hang up the phone. My cell happens to have a little flap I slam shut to end the call with that added sound effect.
In toronto (possibly canada) the cell phone carriers own certain prefixes... for example 416-738 will ALWAYS be a telus mobility cell phone .....
When I first went shopping for a mobile phone back in 1999, this was actually one of my biggest concerns--that I had to pay if a telemarketer called me. So I looked around, and most of Sprint PCS' plans included a "first incoming minute free" feature; if a telemarketer called, you had a minute to hang up without being charged.
Of course, as Sprint seems to do so often with any redeeming quality, they got rid of this feature from new plans; you could only keep getting the first minute free if you never changed plans. Unfortunately for me, I realized too late that I had signed up for a larger plan than I needed, so when I cut down my minutes, I no longer had the first incoming minute free.
(They used a similar technique with Night and Weekend minutes. These used to start at 7pm, then 8pm, now 9pm. As long as you don't ever change anything about your plan, you are fine; if you decide to sign up for their cheaper new plans, you get screwed.)
Since they don't warn you that your service will become more limited if you switch plans, this catches most people by surprise. (Unfortunately, that's how I found out about losing my first incoming minute free.)
Check out http://www.stopjunkcalls.com/script.htm and they will give you the run down of what your supposed to do. Im sure that after you have been awarded a couple thousand from various telemarketers, the rest will probably start to get the idea. ;)
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'm curious as to why you get charged for answering calls to your phone?? Ahhh, right, you're in one of those countries? Heh heh, you probably still think that pagers are useful devices too huh? Good luck man, all I can say is, don't answer your mobile
Just tell the telemarketer that calls that you are on a cell phone and don't appreciate them calling it. They will quickly remove your phone number from their list and hang up.
In the States we pay for incoming wireless calls.... Welcome to the land of the free! --M
In Colorado, it's http://coloradonocall.com. The thing JUST started up this month. Whoo hoo!
...18...19...20 Submit
Yeah, apologies for that last post. I couldn't resist
A little immature though.
Sheit. Good luck man
As a follow-up to my own post, here's the website of the Colorado No-Call list:
http://www.coloradonocall.com/index.cfm
It's free and it was completely effectively in stopping unsolicited phone calls (except, as noted, political calls and charities).
Telemarketing is EVIL. It should be outlawed. It's more annoying than noisu internet pop-ups, because you have to move to the phone, annoying crap.
I recently switched to cell phone only, giving up my dependence on a land line. When people ask for my phone number I go through the following routine (which assumes I don't want to give them my data):
Question to whoever: Why do I have to give you my number?
Salesperson Bob's Answer: Oh, uh, we just need it to, uh...
I tell Bob: No.
I keep my phone and they don't get any info on me. I am probally there to get a item, not give them anything.
Question to whoever: Why do I have to give you my number?
Salesperson Bob's Answer: We have to have it for corporate.
I tell Bob: No
Bob Replies: I need the phone number or I can't complete your order.
I tell Bob: Let me speak to a manager.
I again keep my phone number giving them nothing. If I have to give a number or I can not purchase the item, then I go somewhere else. Yet again, I am there for an item not to pander to their database whims.
If you give them your phone, then you might as well give them your address. After all, they are probally going to ask for that too. So now you have spam on two fronts (phone and smail).
Sometimes they ask for my email. So...
Salesperson Bob: I need your email address.
Answer: Sure thing. It is G... double E... T... B... double E... N... T... @hotmail.com
Somehow telling them double E just bypasses some section of the brain and they fail to realise I am telling them to get bent!
The wages of sin are unreported and back taxes are hell to pay.
Yeah, I could never understand why American cell phones worked like that. In the UK, the prefix 07 is reserved for mobile phones, pagers, and personal number services. Normal area codes all start with 01 or 02. It works quite well.
junkbusters.com
It's against the law for telemarketers to call a cellphone. If I remember right from a class I took, it's specifically prohibited in the Telecom Act (Don't remember the year). Just ask who they are, tell them you're on a cell phone, and report them. Works for me. Whenever I do that, the person on the other end gets all apologetic. It's pretty funny. ;)
They call my cell phone at least 2 times a day. Funny how it's only Verizon telemarketers that call my Verizon cell phone.
... if you don't know who it is (or it's blocked) don't answer it.
Always check your caller ID
Actually, I have found that rudeness and shortcircuting of the preprogrammed speach does help with telemarketing, when coupled with an unlisted number. These firms keep notes about the person called, which profiles work best, which don't work so well.
For example, I have an 11 character polish last name. Very hard for your average telemarketer to prounounce. So one time, somebody called and while they were trying to pronounce my name (hello mr........) I just short circuted their speech before they could get a word in, etc. A few days later, they didn't bother using my last name, just my first name.
I also tend to be obscene with them, if I'm in an evil mood.
And I have noticed that the telemarketing calls have gone way way way down.
Gentoo Sucks
I know that at least in Oregon, area codes can not be separate between cell phones and land line phones as that would put land lines at an unfair advantage of not needing to dial an area code for a local call. So separating them by area code will not work. Reserving a range of digits in the first three of the seven digits should work and would be easy to do when creating new area codes so that people don't have to change their old numbers.
Imagine the scene. A young woman living in her apartment by herself. The phone rings. She picks it up and it goes silent.
Again, several times a night. The phone rings. She picks it up. No-one on the other end.
How the HELL is this method of 'advertising' different from the actions of a depraved stalker?
"Why did they cancel my favorite Sci-Fi show? I downloaded ALL the episodes!"
Same thing in France. Mobile phone numbers begin with 06 (and we've got reserved numbers too : 08 for commercial number phones and ISPs; 1 for emergency numbers - 15, 17, 18 ; 36 for various services - for example the Minitel, a splendid 1200 baud dumb terminal that many millions of French people own) Receiving calls is not charged. I think blocking undesired calls is possible too. The caller's number always appear on your phone's (wireless or not) screen anyway. [but you can protect your identity for free too.] I didn't even imagine received calls were charged in US, a alleged liberal country.
In Australia, mobile phone users don't get charged for receiving phone calls. I have a work and a personal phone, i've put my personal phone on a pay-as-you-go plan, with zero ongoing costs (i.e. no monthly charge). So if I make no outgoing calls on my personal phone, I incur no charges.
I believe that the market penetration of mobile phones in Australia is one of the highest in the world on a per capita basis.
Go Aussie.
I'm still waiting for the inevitable news story that some guy is driving in their car, answers their cell phone which turns out to be a telemarketer solicitation and ends up crashing into a supermodel's car because he wasn't paying attention to the road.
GMD
watch this
Many wireless airtime plans in the U.S. (where we don't do "calling party pays"... eesh... yet another case where we are "inferior" to the Europeans) have a feature where the first incoming minute is free. This is to allow for things like wrong numbers, but it can also be used against telemarketers... just hang up on them. Find out if your wireless carrier has airtime plans with this feature.
I have used TPS for a landline several years ago, it always worked well, it cost me about 10 minutes and one USPS stamp. I would typically have to send the letter about once a year to keep them away.
Since then I have cancelling my land line and now use my cell only, I do not use the TPS anymore and only once in the past 4 years I have received a call. I am under the impression that Qwest sells their customer information to telemarketers, I may be wrong but that is what I like to believe. So fuck them! I no longer subscribe to the medium that provides a means for telemarketers to get to me. I wish more people would do the same. The phone companies will not do anything about it until they begin losing money.
Do what I do. Most places with auto-dailers have more outgoing calls than people, so it takes them 5 seconds or so to get to the call. When you answer and get no response in 3-4 seconds, just hang up. Still costs a little, but I've found it works. I also don't answer calls sometimes from private numbers as well as anything that comes up 800 or 888 on call display.
A guy I work with gets calls a few times a week (usually at odd hours, so he gets voicemail.) The calls usually are along the lines of "Hey this is -firstname- from -companyname-, the state says it is ok to dig. Thanks, seeya." When he does answer, the people don't seem to want to talk and tell him who they were expecting to get.
Hmmm. Very fishy. Maybe it's mafia hitmen who are following the advice of those public safety tips and making sure to avoid buried powerlines before they go digging any graves!
GMD
watch this
It's Pittsburgh, not Pittsburg.
Regards,
Spock_NPA
..live. And many who die deserve life. In the end, all telemarketers should be shot, however.
Most people from outside a ridiculously small area cannot reach me by telephone. Why? Either I don't answer 'Out of Area' or 'Private' calls, or I'm deluged with moronic fools who insist that they're going to give me a great deal on a septic tank cleaning. (I *have* *no* septic tank.)
On occasion, I have to pick up the phone. Thus, I tend to play with the pathetic saps on the other end. (Try getting real jobs, you hosers.)
My favorite annoyance tactic still remains answering the phone as 'House of Feanor' and then screaming bloodthirsty oaths about the rape of the Silmarils. (I suppose Master Tolkien is going to have a nice long chat with me in the afterlife about doing so. But maybe he'll be amused. I can always hope..)
Getting back on topic, I don't have a cell phone. People annoy me enough without needing to annoy me on the go! But, somehow, I doubt that any real legal action could suceed against cell-based telemarketers. Not every cell number is in a convenient little package that can be looked at and compared. Thus, on occasion, the scum of the Earth will end up hitting cell phones, and I'm sure they'd weasel their way out of legalities with 'But gubna, I didna know it was a cell phone!'. As friends of mine can attest, noting that you are on a cell phone usually gets them to stop.
If not, consider impersonating one of the eldar. At the least, you'll end up having some fun. Now, if I could find a telemarketer who would return the favor by damning me for slaying my kin and stealing their ships..
It would be fun when a telemarketer calls my house to tell them I recently said to block my number..... Then I'll sue!
Hacker Media
I let VoiceStream customer service know about it b/c I wasn't sure what the call was, then it happened again while I was around to answer and I understood.
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
'soon the best option for most of us will be to block all incoming international calls. '
Won't work. International call centres buy bulk connections from the telcos and can appear to be located locally.
only in the USA is the cellphone system so fucked up that you get charged for incoming calls. it's hardly the telemarketeers fault if they decide to exploit this ludicrous situation and annoy you for FREE. you fucking idiots DESERVE it. sort out your cellphone networks!
That was classic intercourse!
Defeat Telemarketers
If you have the time read the rest of this guys site he has a lot of good stuff about getting telemarketers off your back.Am I the only one that finds totally astonishing that the poor people in the US actually pay to RECEIVE calls on a mobile?
Sheesh! If thats progress you can stick it!
I was thinking about setting up a 1-900 number for forms that require a phone number. I'd charge them like $10/min or something similar, and that way I'd be more than happy to have the tele-marketer explain everything to me, in minute detail, twice.
$0.02 (CDN)
Like they say, we've got the best politicians money can buy here
I can't report on how well it works as I've been on the list for 3 days now. See http://host.ntg.com/donotcall/ for details. Here's a sample from the site:
...Time is the best teacher, unfortunately it kills all of its students.
Over on this side of the big pond, the cost of calling mobile telephones is still orders of magnitude higher than making national or local calls, and in some instances comparable (or even more expensive, if you use some of the specialist long-distance carriers) to making international calls. Example: Calls to mobiles are charged at anywhere from 18.90 to 26.05 pence per minute including tax during the daytime. Compare this to international rate calls to the USA at 14.00 and Australia at 22.00 pence per minute. (Source: BT price list). The cost alone is usually sufficient to put people of making calls to mobiles. SMS (text messaging) spam is become more popular though.
The UK Direct Marketing Association, which is the self regulatory body for direct marketeers in the UK run a scheme called the Telephone Preference Service or 'TPS'. From personal experience, I have found this scheme to be particularly effective against junk callers.
The same bunch also run a postal-mail and fax opt-out service, which is apparently also fairly successful, and an Email service, which I'm somewhat sceptical about (not giving my addressesout anyway, I shouldn't be on their lists). (and most of my spam comes from the USA anyhow) Under the Telecommunications (Data Protection and Privacy Regulations) 1999 it is an offence for any company engaged in direct marketing to call numbers listed on the TPS. Those who do can be 'shopped' straight away on the TPS site. One difference I noticed with the USA version of the TPS is that in the USA, you can still be called by local traders, charities and religious groups, AND your number only registers for five years. In the UK, local traders, charities and religious groups are included in the act.
I got a cell phone awhile ago and then got my land line to forward my calls to the cell because I am rarely home. I rarely received telemarketer calls at home because I tell them to blacklist me and report violators to the ftc.
Then I just this car loan from chase and the bastards sold my info to telemarketers. Now I get these ghost calls about once a day where the call gets forwarded to my cell(unlisted number) rings once and disconnects. This annoys the hell out of me! There is no way for me to find out who they are so that I can track them down and kill them like the dogs they are(or at least dos their servers).
There ought to be a law... actually soon they will be implementing a do not call list in wisconsin. Until then anyone have any good ideas on how I can exact some revenge on these bastards?
We have the best government that money can buy.
If you reverse the situation, you make everyone with cell phones happier ("Hey, my cell phone bill just went WAY down!") but you anger all the non-cell phone users ("What are all these extra charges on my bill?").
Since I have no control over, or awareness of, the type of phone the other party has or the charges associated with it, I would have no way of knowing beforehand what my bill was going to be for that call if I had to pay for making the outbound call. If I call a non-cell phone, the call is covered by my monthly "rent" of the phone line. It seems reasonable that any non-long distance call should also be covered by that same "rent" of the line, since that's the line that I'm using. If the receiving party chooses to use a mobile service, they should pay the premium for that privilege, and not penalize someone else. I shouldn't have to pay more money for my call, because someone else decides to use a more expensive service. They should pay the difference.
Basically, if you get an unlisted or anonymous phone call, the caller has to say their name *before* the call goes through. It gets electronically recorded & then repeated back to whoever answers the phone. The answerer then has the option to accept the call or hang up. Why not something similar for cell phones? Mine already has Caller ID, this wouldn't be a stretch (and I would gladly pay extra for this feature).
...I can tell you that the marks dig their own graves.
All cellphone numbers start with 07. Other ranges of numbers are reserved for various things.
And what happens when you run out of 07 numbers? Don't tell me "it'll never happen".
You can opt out of all junk phone calls by joining the Telephone Preference System.
You can do so here in Texas via the No Call List. Not sure what's it's like in the other states. What's it like in the other Euro-States(France, Germany, etc)?(as an aside, since the Europian Union get's a seat in the UN for each of their states, when will the USA get a seat for each of our 50 states?!?!)
You don't pay for receiving calls, unless you are out of the country... It seems absolutely crazy to charge to receive calls, as this would cause the penetration of mobiles to drop dramatically as it would exclude poor people
Don't you have that "crazy" per-minute charge for local calls on your land lines? We don't here. Anyway, there's so many minutes included with my calling plan that I've never paid an extra charge.
In the netherlands it's even better, there's a mobile operator that actually pays you 0,03 euro per minute when someone calls you.
Yeah, did you get the memo?
1. Pretend that you're really interested in the product.
2. Get them to drag out a long explanation of the product, and keep them on the phone as long as possible.
3. When the person asks for some info, or for a credit card, act really surprised and demand to see a supervisor.
4. When the supervisor comes on the phone to ask what the problem is, say, "Oh, I was just waiting for her to take my order." The other person should come back on the line shortly, possibly annoyed.
5. Continue to mess with her a little longer, as long as she'll stay on the line. But DON'T BUY ANYTHING. The idea is to totally throw off her numbers for that hour, so her performance figures get wrecked, and really tick her off in the process. If you can get her to lose her temper, you get extra points. If she gets so pissed off she yells audibly and gets fired, you've reduced the telemarketer population by one and deserve a medal!
This was accomplished in hilarious form by someone who posted the story to the web; I wish I remembered the URL! But as long as they're costing you minutes, you might as well get some enjoyment out of it...
Driving from Texas to California via Kansas and Denver, got stuck in a surprise snowstorm. After 3 hours of first gear (in an MR2 with summer tires!) and no place to pull off and put on my chains, finally did a 360, a 180, and another 180, and decided my luck had run out, so I dumped it off the side in a snowbank. No damage, not hurt, but decided it was time to get my money's worth from AAA. While waiting for them to call back, a telemarketer called! "Hello Mr Smith, how are you doing today?" I said I was stuck in a snowback. "Oh, you live in the mountains? We have a special offer today on credit card insurance..." and I hung up. Clueless.
Infuriate left and right
They shouldn't be able to tell that you were lying from the number if they genuinely don't know when they are calling a cellphone or a landline.
This idea was invented by Shampoo.
Telemarketers are people too. Although many telemarketers are colored, most of them are just like you and me. So, if I ask them if they are colored, then I can verbally abuse them? Should I also take this to assume that every one on /. is not colored.
I hope this is a grammer mistake.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
You're right. Despite the seeming ubiquity of cellphones in the US, they've achieved nowhere near the penetration they have in the UK. This is probably one of the reasons why.
And the brethren went away edified.
I've worked for a telemarketing place for a summer to pay for my University costs, and I found out the most effective to make sure they never call you back.
1) Tell them to put you on a DO NOT CALL list
2) Tell them your are dead, this puts you on deceased list and they never ever call you back
3) another way that I use which is extremely funny, is to put your bills name (ie, name of person on your phone bill) as your dog/cats name.
For example, my dog's name is "Sparky" so whenever I receive a caller asking for "Sparky Smith" you *know* it's a spammer. From my experience it works like a charm like you won't believe!!!
thanks for listening!
A buddy of mine comes up with some good anti-telemarketer lines. A couple of weeks ago he was called up by someone hocking the local paper.
Telemarketer: Hello, would you like to recieve the [local paper]?
Guy: I... can't read.
[pause]
Telemarketer: At all?
of course, that doesn't stop you from being called in the first place ^_^
--
Twinbee is lovely character. Perhaps you will enjoy with him?
I don't see why people are getting so bugged by telemarketing calls on cell phones as compared to regular phones.
The argument seems to be "it costs me money", however that's not universally the case at all. With plans that include thousands of minutes that's not necessarily the case. Also, most incoming calls are free for the first minute, so unless you actually hang around and listen to them for significant time, it's not a problem...
Isn't it more about the intrusion? And isn't the intrusion exactly the same on land lines?
I think that existing laws are sufficient for protection. The correct response, when somone calls either on the land or cell phone is "What company do you represent?" followed by "Please put me on your do not call list." Make a note of the company and when they called.
If they call back within 10 years, you can get $500.
Simply hanging up is actually more harmful than not... Telemarketing companies share information on when their calls are answered, so you are more likely to get more calls around the same time if you answer them at all, even if you hang up right away.
We started doing this back in 1995. We were getting 5 to 10 calls per week, every week-day night at around 7pm, when we were having dinner and relaxing from the day. We now get 5 to 10 calls per year.
Remember, people call trying to sell you something because it works. *NEVER* *EVER* buy anything from a telemarketer. *ALWAYS* ask to be put on their do not call list.
If you want to take it to the next level, keep track of companies that call, and if any of them are ones you do business with, or plan to do business with, don't do business with them. Send them a letter to that effect.
The only way spam and telemarketing will stop is if it no longer works.
Sean
I have two phones plugged into my Pipeline 75, and get probably one a day or so. PacBell (California) provides 12000 minutes (200 hours) per month with the basic service; after that it's 3 cents the first minute and 1 cent per minute afterwards. Any idea if this counts towards that $500? That would be a lot of fun!
Infuriate left and right
The site also has a lot of other information on the list and how they are enforcing it and who to report violations to. As stated on the website in their FAQ, there are only four types of telemarketing the list does not block, they are: I can say from experience that since I signed up, I have not had any telemarketing calls in violation of the law. I registered my home and cell phone number, but now it states that the numbers should be residential (I'm not sure if/how they even check.) However, both my numbers still are on the list.
I would definitely encourage anyone in Indiana to sign up, and report any offenders. I doubt a normal person would see the money, but here's what they do to companies in violation: Even if I didn't see any of the money it'd be nice to see telemarketers taken for a ride
I'm not sure if other states have similar practices, but it's worth checking into.
Colored what? Pink? Purple? Or is it one of those color-by-number things? Is it like this one act I saw in Chicago, at Charybdis, where a German guy smeared tempera paints all over the naked bodies of volunteers and then took photos? Man, that was something to see; the pictures were fantastic and everyone had a good time. Too bad that place got shut down by the Alderman.
Let me know, because I'm dying of curiosity.
Finding God in a Dog
Nextel has a rate plan (at least in my area) where all incoming calls are free.
I'd gladly have 300 minutes a month if I said "Call me back on my cell". Plan starts at $60.00. Not quite so feasable when you use your cell phone for making LD calls though.
-techwolf
I don't do this for karma, I do it for cash. It's much better.
What in the world is the deal? Doesn't everyone have plan's with 100's of minutes on these days? Especially if you are using the phone as a replacement for a land-line, for the price of a land-line you should be able to get lot's of minutes.
When you do get a call, just say you are not interested, don't call back, and hang up. It's less then a minute, so you only get charged for one minute and life goes on.
What's the big deal?
-Brent
2) Hit the Direct Marketing Assocaion's web site for consumers and jump through the hoops to get on their "Telephone Preference List". This is a list of people maintained by the Direct Marketing Association who do not wish to receive telemarketing calls. It won't cut them all out but it will cut down on the volume. While you're there, they also have a "Direct Mail Preference List" which will likewise cut down on the amount of junk mail you receive. (They also have a spam preference list but most spammers are too slimey to bother with the DMA. I surprised more spammers haven't bought the no spam list just to get the valid e-mail addresses from the list and then spam people anyway).
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
The European Union is hardly equivalent to the 'United States of Europe'. All European countries have an independent foreign policy and continue - and hopefully will for a long time - to be independent countries.
True Story:
:)
In 1995, I was fresh out of college with a relatively useless liberal arts degree.
A friend of mine had a little web company, and he was giving me piecemeal work - html, content sorting, stuff like that - after finding out that I was pretty comfortable with computers and learned things quickly.
Still, I was poor. Canned-beans-three-meals-a-day poor.
We (a roomate and I) moved into a new apartment a few months later. Our new phone number apparently belonged to an IT consultant before it came into our possession. We used to get five or six calls a week from headhunters looking to hire him for various jobs.
One day, I started talking to one of the headhunters. Ten minutes later, I had an interview for a $25 an hour job, despite my lackluster qualifications and limited experience. A week later, I was hired.
In the seven years since then, I've learned a lot more, worked a lot of contracting gigs, and eventually started my own consulting company. We're not huge, just a few guys, but we make a decent living and do a vast majority of our work in bath robes.
See, telemarketers aren't always bad.
Kuroth
att is starting to do this. They probably think it's ok because they're only spamming their own customers, but it still pisses me off to no end when I get one. There sales guy I usually work with has had a few complaints but his higher-ups haven't figured out yet what to do with people who insist on not getting any spam. Go figure.
There is a new law in Colorado which you can get on a no call list. If you are on this list and a solicitor calls you it is a $10,000 fine.
Each minute of airtime costs money, but most plans now offer domestic long distance and roaming for free. This can actually save you money if you make a lot of long distance calls.
The law states that a telemarketer or an advertisement gency cannot contact you if it will result in costing you money. For that very reason you do not see spam coming out of your fax machine. Since cell phone usage ends up wasting your minutes, if a telemarketer contacts you on that they are breaking the law. You can sue the immediately.
Another thought. Most phone services allow first incoming minute free. Thus you can hang up on them without any cost to you.
"Just how bis is your penis? I would just like to before you try to fuck me over."
Ask something like that or other various vulgarities, it's quite fun. Who knows you may get lucky and get a freak on the line.
Ah, so that's why we're putting new cover sheets on our TPS reports!
All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
Although many telemarketers are colored, most of them are just like you and me. Please do not verbally abuse them - you won't hurt the industry, just somebody (not unlike myself) who is trying to make ends meet.
I'm not going to dignify that "colored" remark with a reply...
However, your insinuation that telemarketers are just good, honest folk trying to make a living is a bit bizarre. I worked briefly (very briefly -- I quit after two weeks) at a telemarketing firm selling pay channels (HBO, etc.). We got paid a reasonably hourly wage, given what we were doing. However, the real way to make money is through commissions. Telemarketers make money by selling people on their product. They are salespeople. I'm not claiming that they are filthy rich salespeople. But they are more like used car salesmen than they are like the average slashdot reader.
GMD
watch this
Telemarketers are people who need to take responsibility for their actions. In fact the only reason that telemarketing works is that many people are too timid to hang up.
I am not endorsing verbal abuse, but if I receive an unsolicited phone call then my time is being stolen from me. I don't see why I need to be civil; even my declaration of my intent to hang up is just more of my time.
If someone else feels the need to verbally abuse the telemarketer I am not going to complain. If the telemarketer doesn't like it then they can find a job where they aren't stealing time from hundreds of people a day. If no one was willing to telemarket then this abhorent industry would wither and die.
It wouldn't surprise me.
One of the most eye-opening experiences of my life was when I was working late one night, at a Gov't office, in a major Canadian city. I went to the washroom, and the paper-towel dispenser happened to be open. Printed on the inside of the dispenser was instructions on how to change the roll. In English, and what looked like Spanish or Portugese. Either way, it was whatever language all of the janitorial staff were speaking.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
This is kind of funny.
Sprint PCS has so many accounts (and so many that are not being paid) that they are totally jacked up on how to handle it all.
I get a file from them to run on my dialer every day of over 900,000 accounts that are bad. Usually 9 or 10 thousand of those accounts have no good phone number on them. (We wont call the cell phone)
If I ever decide I want to get a cell phone but I don't want to be held accountable for the bill - I will be going w/them.
.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
While Slashdot has it's shares of trolls in the various technical discussions, this is one of the most appalling comments I've ever seen moderated this high. In the same post, Portugal is called a third-world country (third-world?! while I wouldn't personally consider India a third-world country by normal definitions, I'll concede that some may) and in apparent attempt to defend telemarketers a blatantly racist remark is thrown in for good measure.
Sheesh, people! Read the post before moderating it up and don't get blinded by the 'fancy' HTML table.
--Yep, same thing here in Sweden, about 3 cents to be exact (per minute).
and I quote
"Telemarketers are people too. Although many telemarketers are colored,..."
fuck you negro, I *am* colored, but I aint no god damned telemarketer.
From a telephone conversation between Bob, a telemarker for a cemetary outside Louisville, Kentucky, and comedian Tom Mabe:
Tom Mabe: Hello?
Bob : Is Mr. or Mrs. Mabe in please?
Mabe : This is Mr. Mabe [sounds of Mabe crying]
Bob: Hi, Mr. Mabe. This is Bob, and I'm calling you from Evergreen Cemetary. How are you today?
Mabe: Not that good.
Bob: Oh, I'm sorry. The reason I'm calling you today is to offer you some peace of mind through pre-arranged burial plots. You can rest assured that all of the details can be taken care of for you. [Sounds of Mabe sobbing.] Sir?
Mabe: Bob, you're not going to believe this. I lost my job on Thursday. Company closed shop. My-my wife left me.
Bob: Oh, I'm sorry.
Mabe: And I'm sitting- But this- this is so bizarre. I was sitting here contemplating suicide, and I was praying, asking God for a sign.
Bob: Yeah, but I'm just calling you because your name is on the list.
Mabe: But no, you don't understand, just five minutes ago I was- I was just praying and asking God for a sign, and you called.
Bob: Yeah, but I'm just doing my job.
Mabe: I know, I know, but- something's in control, I don't know what it is. You're the Angel of Death, man!
Bob: Listen, is there anybody that I can call for you?
Mabe: I've been working for this company for about six years now, and we just got a bigger house. We have a two bedroom house. And I lost my job. The company, they just shut down. My wife, she's just frustrated, she's back in Vermont. And- things aren't working.
Bob: Do you have any kids we can call, we can contact?
Mabe: He's six years old. He's at his grandmother's house. I mean- just five minutes ago I was praying, saying, God, help me through this, give me a sign of some sort- And you called.
Bob: No, no. I'm not that sign.
Mabe: You're the Angel of Death.
Bob: Look, I can call someone and have somebody come right over there for you.
Mabe: No, I'm glad that you called. I could use your services here. I mean, how much is this stuff?
Bob: Well, you know, we have different price ranges for different sorts of plots.
Mabe: Is it, is it- So it is kind of expensive, though, some of it?
Bob: No, it's very affordable. And this way you could take care of all of it.
Mabe: Do you do financing down there?
Bob: Mr. Mabe, you know, you just got done saying that you're thinking of taking your life. Do you have, I don't know, a credit card? Or a checking account?
Mabe: Hold on. [sounds of Mabe crying.]
Bob: Let me ask you this: if I got the paperwork out to you, say, this afternoon, do you think maybe you could hold off until tomorrow?
You fools, many cell companies gave you the first incoming minute for free a few years ago. Case and point, my dad got his plan in 1999 with Sprint PCS. He rarely uses the phone so he has no incentive to change plans. He still gets a free incoming minute on all calls. It's great.
-dk
Last time someone telemarketed me, I went into the Monty Python & The Holy Grail French Taunter bit.
"YOU TINY MINDED WIPER OF OTHER PEOPLES' BOTTOMS! NOW GO AWAY OR I SHALL TAUNT YOU A SECOND TIME."
Silence. Then this tiny little female voice with a wry slant said, "Next you're going to tell me you're already got one, right?" Made my day (and probably hers) and we ended up chatting. Too bad she lived 6 states away. ^_~
if the answer isn't violence, neither is your silence / freedom of expression doesn't make it alright
Why not ban ALL telemarketing, junk mail, and spam. NOBODY Likes this crap, and it's a huge waste of resources. Of course that'll put a lot of people out of jobs, but there's got to be SOMETHING these people can do that actually benefits society...
Shift happens. Fire it up.
Here in Oregon, it can take 3 months for the State's NCL to be updated and sent out to the telemarketers, who must buy it. But I think the above poster was saying that his credit card company, who is selling his name, claimed it would take THEM 3 months to put him on their NCL. And someone else said that was illegal.
Are you saying your Missouri State NCL didn't work for you? That is surprising. For me, it took a few months to eliminate all the calls, but when the conversation went "Have you heard of the Oregon No Call List? Well, this number is on it and you can be fined $20,000 each time you call me." Then I didn't ever get another call from that company. Now I can answer my phone at dinner time without fear.
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.
...like you.
In the front of my bellsouth phone book it says
What the penalities are for telemarketing who continue to call you
You can sue the telemarketer, on your own with an attorney, in small claims court, if you have received more than 1 call within a 12-month period from teh same telemarketer in violation of these requirements. You may be entitled to $500.00 in damages for each violation and attorneys' fees.
This is what happened to Miss Cleo.. heh
Let me guess, Mommy and Daddy paying all your bills for you? Or are they just paying for your college education?
Yes. They are rude people who think they have a right to interrupt me and violate my privacy because they are too lazy to get an honest job. I am so sick of people saying "they're only trying to earn a living," refering to telemarketers. Elephant poachers are only trying to make a living. That doesn't excuse them! I have taken all the precautions to avoid telemarkets, and, for the most part, I only receive a call once every few months (and that is usually a wrong number). However, I still take it upon myself to give the caller the hardest time I can. My reasoning is this -- if everyone was incredibly mean and rude to telemarketers, few people would be willing to do the work and the cost of labor would be prohibitively high. Don't even get me started about the jackasses that actually buy something from telemarketers. If they would all just stop the problem would disappear.
..forcing every cellular company to make the first minute on incoming calls free. I used to have this on Sprint PCS and it was fantastic, particularly for those few occasions when I would have just enough time to tell a telemarketer where to stick it before I could hang up and still be under 1 minute. This would make the telemarketers happy because they could still call people, and most people would be happy because they could hang up before being charged anything. The only problem is figuring out how this is good for the cellular companies...
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
I got a separate voicemail account with its own phone number, and give that out as my "home" number. (A pager would also work.) This is an additional expense, but not as much as a land line (which some people don't have), and telemarketers never leave a message. Some of them are able to page or email/text-message you when you get voicemail. If you have your home and mobile numbers forward-on-busy and forward-on-no-answer to the voicemail, then you have a single voicemail box and no telemarketing.
Oh, and if you get a call (at home, where you don't pay for incoming) and there's more than a second pause after you say "hello", just hang up immediately. It works and it's free.
Sometimes when you say this, they will tell you at warp speed that in order to be added to their no call list, you can call a 1-800 number to request it. They are speaking as fast as they can because they will hang up on you at the end of the sentence, leaving you still on their call list. You need to cut them off right away and tell them on on uncertain terms that *they* will personally take you off the call list right now.
In general, 'put me on your do not call list' is highly effective'. Without adding myself to any state or national registries, it's cut my telemarketing hassles dramatically.
Also, don't thank them for anything, not even a 'no, thank you'. They don't deserve any courtesy. And I don't buy any of the crap about 'making ends meet'. The checker at the grocery store is making ends meet. The garbage man is making ends meet. Telemarketers get paid to harass people.
Regarding the original cell phone thread, I've never received a single telemarketing call to my cell phone in about two years. I've also never given the number to a single company.
Sprint has been sending out mailers to customers on old plans recommending which new plan they should be on based on their usage. My old plan, which I almost never go over, is the original $29.95/month plan. Their cheapest plan now is $39.95. They actually recommended I move to the $39.95 plan as the best value for me. When I first saw it, I thought they were discontinuing my old plan and forcing me to pick a new one. I was rather pissed at the tactic. Instead I became annoyed that they would try to trick me into a more expensive plan.
i seem to recall a law that said each time a telemarketer calls back after you tell them not to you can win $500 per occruance. that should cover the bills.
I would be willing to bet that if each time a person got a telemarketing call they politely hung up on the telemarketers and then immediately called their elected representatives and complained, the elected representatives would be swamped with so many calls they could not get their "regular" business done.
How long then do you think it would take the polticians to get on the ball and pass some legislation with real teeth?
(as an aside, since the Europian Union get's a seat in the UN for each of their states, when will the USA get a seat for each of our 50 states?!?!)
Probably around the time you start paying for them. At the moment you can't seem to handle the membership fees for just one country.
Good thing you've got Ted Turner to pay the for you.
"Considering most tele-marketers use auto-dialers, would it be so hard to grab the definitive list of area-code/extensions that are exclusively used for cellular phones and just apply that to their dial-out lists?"
Actually they are required by law to add the NPA NXX that is handed out to cell providers. These are resricted number blocks just like the NPA 976 is restricted. So yeah it probably was a fluke.
I like things that are sweet and not things that are lame. --
The European Union has recently decided (in all its wisdom) that not being able to move your phone number from one operator to another (extensions and all) is unfair obstruction of competition.
Thus the easy way of telling apart different mobile operators is about to go. This will mean that mobile to mobile calls will have to be charged differently. After all you newer know which network you are calling. A reception fee is a possible and even probable solution.
And yes. I hate the idea as much as you do. Who calls land lines anymore if they can avoid it? With mobile penetration (sex in a car?) well over 70% I can avoid for everything except calling some companies.
Generally, Greece is not infested with spammers. So imagine my surprise today when I received spam via text message to my cellphone! Is SMS spam an issue elsewhere in Europe/the world as well?
The competition for cell phone customers is intense, and it shouldn't be difficult to find a plan where you can safely ignore telemarketers.
Check out Chad's News
I'm wondering how much cell plans cost around the world. Are plans in other countries as cheap as they are in the USA? I know I see people complaining about how it's backwards in the USA that we get charged for receiving calls, but I don't really care, because I don't use nearly all of my minutes anyway.
Country: USA
Price: $35 USD
Minutes: 250 anytime, 2750 nights and weekends. Long distance included for calls anywhere in the lower 48 states.
Typically, I use less than 200 minutes per month. Most of my friends have similar plans... the most basic plan you can get (that I have found), is $20 USD per month for 20 minutes. I feel it's worth the extra $15 USD for all the minutes. Of course, the minutes came in handy when my girlfriend and I were apart for 3 months...
He said, "You'll be able to tell your grandchildren that you helped assemble the first NT supercomputer," and I cringed.
... are available, theres no way for a telemarketer to distinguish these from normal land lines.
I'm sure it seems crazy to Europeans, but the balance in North America is that local calls from your landline (i.e. in the same city) cost exactly $0.00 no matter how long the call is. The system here is completetely built up around it and it won't change for a long time.
NO! This is not a solution! This would only increase the problem by making it "okay" for telemarketers to call you, because you're not paying by the minute for them to call you. Some assmuncher politician would use this as an excuse to alter the TCPA to allow marketroids to dial you on your cell phones. NO!
In Israel each cellular company has it's own prefix.
Incoming calls are never charged, and the minute cost of a call is determined by prefix - 02,03,04,07,08,09 = land lines, 05,06 = cellular (each provider has a set of area codes), 1 = special calls (emergency + services), 01x = internaltional calls (x = provider).
Domestic calls cost about 3c/min in peak time and 0.5c/min at night.
International calls to the US cost 10c/min.
Cellular calls cost 13.2c/min from a land line.
Make even shorter URLs - 8LN.org
For now, I use the passive approach:
When they ask, "When would be a good time to call you back?", I say, "Tomorrow evening" or "2 months from now" or whatever is appropriate for the situation, depending on who is calling and for what. For instance, RESPs can wait for two months, but telephone services usually only wait for up to two days. Either way, you get a break.
Then, when they call back I tell them the same thing. Over and over again. Endlessly. After a few calls, you can get them trained to phone back at a specific date and time, and make plans to be out for that time. Then you get to say "Oh, yeah, I was out. Sorry about that. Can you call again in another 2 months?"
I'd love to do that, but unfortunately my sister's cell phone shows up as a "blocked id"
she should either configure her phone properly,
or RTFM and learn how to unlock when she dials you. The first time she can't call you, she learn.
There are laws in the US regarding telemarketing to cellular phones. In short, you can't, because it costs the receiver money. It costs you money to answer your phone and say "Go away".
They were trying to contact you on a landline that does not cost you per-minute. You CHOSE to forward calls made to a service that wouldn't cost you money to one that would. That's your fault, not theirs.
Uh hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
I was under the impression that telemarketers were doing it for the money :) But that is a natural AC mistake, I can't expect too much from someone who doesn't have the moxy to put a name on their opinion.
Cry me a puddle. If I was nice to telemarketers I'd get dozens of calls a day. If everyone was a complete bastard to all telemarketers then the entire industry would disappear, leaving the world a better place.
And the only reason you get paid more telemarketing than working at McDonalds is because of the crap one you have to take from the people whose time you are stealing. If you can deal with it then keep the job, but don't whine about it.
You must be a telemarketer because you seem to be apologizing for this completely amoral industry. My suggestion is to grin and bear it, because this won't be the last time you take crap from someone about it.
You're right. Despite the seeming ubiquity of cellphones in the US, they've achieved nowhere near the penetration they have in the UK. This is probably one of the reasons why.
Also, there is no need to. Crappy as the local Telco's in the US are they are nowhere near as bad as the state-run monopolies that most of the rest of the world has to put up with. In most countries in Europe you have to pay per minute while you are dialed in, for example.
Mmmm.. Donuts
She might not be part of the usu telemarketing ....
Not that I like them but you could be jumping to conclusions.
Here, Ali makes it look so easy. Just a casually tossed out word here or there, and chaos erupts.
I think I'll resist. But I'll also have to admire.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Don't be too hard on them, according to this CNN story, a mountaineer was saved by a telemarketer who called him while he was stuck on a mountain.
...third-world countries like India and Portugal...
A contry that is in the EU, joined the Euro currency, is organizing the European 2004 football (soccer to you) championship, organized World Expo'98, is one of the world's country with the largest cellular phone penetration, and it's a 3rd world country?
Well, in some ways, perhaps it is... But at the very least, tele-marketing is illegal to do without consent, and we don't pay a (euro)cent for receiving phone calls.
And if I ever get called (which never happened to me or mostly anyone I met) by telemarketers, I can just hangup the phone, and not answer when that number comes up again (which, once again, 99.99% of phones send call ID).
And btw, most of the spam I receive is for US companies. "Call 201-555-1234 to be removed from our mailing list"... 201-555-1234 of which coutry? Where's the coutry code?
Sorry about the slight OT.
Pedro
Putting the cost of making the caller is just exactly a solution to the problem, if you make it enough. How much spam would there be if it cost 10 cents (say) to send an email? Not much, I guess.
Making the person who is causing the trouble pay for it is in general a much better way of solving the problem than legislating it out of existence.
Other solutions that work for me - I was an IT contractor and in the IT frenzy I used to get a lot of agent calls are:
Multiple numbers. It's very cheap to have multiple numbers on phones here, and they can have different ring tones or be forwarded differently. We have one `company' number which goes to whoever is meant to be answering company calls, and then each of us has a public number (which we tell agents ) and a private number which we tell no-one. Forwarding calls within our telco is free, so we just set things up as we like.
voicemail. Also free for us, and quite often I set the public and/or company numbers just to go to voicemail and then, maybe, listen to it later.
But mostly, thre fact that it actually costs people to make a call means that only people who actually want to talk to you will call.
I don't think you should take it on faith that there IS a loophole there in the law. Other posters here who have read the telemarketing law have said that it allows for ONE mistake in a years time. There is no grace period for them to keep calling you while they put you on their list, and their Don't Call List can't expire after a year. I guess the loophole is that they could "accidently" call you once per year, but it sounds like the story they are giving you is bogus and doesn't absolve them of $500 per infraction. IINAL and I have not even personally read the law in question.
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.
If cell phones had distinct prefixes, such as 965, 935, etc. and the user had to pay any charges to call a cell phone, such as long distance, the problem would not be as great.
Some countries do this now and it puts the burden of calling on the caller. Voice spamers would have no excuse for calls to cell phones.
Nate
I think what the guy is most concerned about is having to listen to that pathetic marketing on his voicemail. Something that he pays for!! The editor misses the point IMHO
Add a sub-agreement to any forms you fill out indicating that your information will not be shared with a third party. Just write it somewheres in a blank area and get the person you're filling the form out for to sign it. My father went in to buy a vehicle one time, and that's what he did. If in doubt, or if this you find adding this agreement cumbersome, spell your name wrong. When you receive mail or a telemarketer calls, look at your name on the mail or ask the telemarketer to spell your name. If it's incorrect, you know your info has been sold.
"So, is your mother really proud of you? I mean, having chosen a career in telemarketing and all."
Of course I know telemarketers are people too, but they are bad people and deserve the abuse I give them. Unless they find other jobs there is no reason why they wouldn't be verbally abused and looked down on.
I'm sorry, but they are down there with physical professional torturers. It may not be their fault and it may be the result of circustances beyond their control but I'd rather they picked up a social security check. I'd pitch in a dollar a month for that.
The solution is simple - refuse telemarketing jobs WITHOUT EXCEPTION AND WITHOUT ANY REASONING TO THE CONTRARY.
Utterly untrue. The telemarketers sell their services to companies in the US. They have offices in the US and assets in the US that can be seized and garnished.
Most domestic telemarketers violate the law.
True, but the only reason they get away with it is that the authorities don't deal with the problem very seriously. If illegal junk marketing calls were treated in the same way as drug dealers the industry would be dead PDQ.
Please do not verbally abuse them - you won't hurt the industry, just somebody (not unlike myself) who is trying to make ends meet
Again, wrong. Don't feel the slightest twinge of conscience as you tell the miserable heap of offal what a loathsesome turd they are. It is a damn sight cheaper than therapy. People suffer from far too much tension and lack ways to chanel their aggression in socially useful ways.
My favorite is too ask them to hold the line while I play one of a selection of .wav files I keep stored for the purpose. These cover a range of dramatic scenes, my favorite being the 'missus threatening to jump out of the window' which the telemarketer gets to hear. I had to stop playing that after the cops came round one time to see what was up.
These days I don't get much chance to play them as the telemarketers have mostly put me on there 'be really sure not to call list'.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
Each ad sent cost the reciever money so it was evneutally banned.. Thankfully.
.... use up my 'free' minutes getting crap...
Now cell phones
What about internet spam when you pay per use for your link? Same thing.. use up the 'free' time permonth on incoming spam..
Internet spam costs business money due to network useage, ( ya know, bandwidth isnt free.. ) and the time people have to spend dealing with it.. ( being a sysadm i spend a good 5 hours a week as i have 12000 users ).
This doesnt even talk about pornograpic images sent blindly.. if it was in the paper mail they would be in jail..
Somehow this all has to stop..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Why you guys in the US use the same types of telephone numbers for cell and land-line phones. In every country I've lived in, a mobile number is distinctly different (usually more digits), and the prefixes are usually recognisable. Thus, in the UK or here in Australia for instance the telemarketer has to be aware that a mobile number is being called (and be prepared to wear the cost).
If your phone number is 555-1212, then write it down like this:
555-NOSPAM-1212
Everyone on Slashdot seems to believe it works with email addresses... it must work everywhere, right?
-- Terry
and only slightly off-topic: It never fails to astound me that you guys have to pay by the minute to receive calls, whether you want them or not. As a matter of interest, I wonder how many countries in the world (apart from the US) where this is the practice?
Here in Brazil, my cellphone provider has a deal where the customers GET credits when somebody calls their phone. So whenever a telemarketer calls me I usually tell them to wait a minute and just put the phone away without hanging up...
-mz
I just found out recently that junk faxes are legal in Missouri as a court decided the previous law was un-constitutional. I haven't been able to find out much information, but faxes come at 2am from some nearly untraceable company in Florida that doesn't care one bit if they call me in the middle of the night.
Anyone have any insight about what can be done?
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Colorado recently enacted (law went into effect Monday) a No-call list that is maintained by an outside company. Lots of amusing tidbits in this and this article, including that 790,000 people have signed up for the list (sign-up was available before the law took effect), and that 600 complaints were received in the first two days the law was in effect. Fines don't come into place until the third offense, but the AG has already warned some companies to stop.
The Colorado No-call list can be joined here or by calling 1-888-249-9097.
Unfortunately, if you don't already live in Colorado, most of the residents don't want you to move here (if you live here you know what I mean).
Denver Isuzu Suzuki
Telemarketer: We'd like to give you free, any room in your house, a carpet shampoo!
Me: I have hardwood floors. (Substitute "I'm in Jail right now" for laughs)
Telemarketer: How about your furniture?
Me: Leather.
Or:
TeleM: We'd like to give you 5 pounds of fresh meat, delivered to your door! ...And a devout member of the OTC (The Church of Satan) and the NRA.
Me: I'm vegetarian. And I don't like people coming to my door.
TeleM: How about frozen vegetables?
Me:
TeleM: *click*
TeleM: We'd like to offer you our exclusive low long distance rates!
Me: I don't call anyone.
TeleM: You don't have any family in other parts of the country?
Me: I did, but they were slaughtered by pirates off the coast of China...(supressing a sob)*sniff*
"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." Mark Twain
In Europe you pay a huge fee to call a cell phone. In the US the subscriber pays. This sux if you get spam calls and the mobile co did not offer first minute free.
In theory calling cell phones is ilegal in the US. This is not easy to check for however since a single area code can have mobile numbers and land lines.
Now for the part nobody mentioned yet, the problem is about to get much harder as under the new regime any number can be for a land line or a mobile. Furthermore it wil be possible to map numbers from one area code onto a completely different area code.
Essentially in the future your telephone number will be capable of being used anywhere, at least in the US (eventually worldwide).
What this means is that the companies that track SS7 signalling info are going to have to provide info on what kind of line the call eventually maps to. There could also be a role for a national do not call list - possibly organized by a private company.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
First things first.
;-)
You must prove they called you on purpose. The burden of proof is on you. It isn't like you get that second call and viola! you get a check. There is court time involved.
You must also ask to speak with a supervisor. If a non-supervisor talks to you claiming they are a super that is good enough for you - you have no way of knowing. But you have the right to request a supervisors help, and you you must in order to guarantee you will win your case.
While working for the local "Enquirer" newspaper here in "Cincinnati" [hint hint], I learned that when a sales rep takes your number down to be put on the DNC list they can legally just throw them away because sales reps are known to screw up the process. You won't win in court claiming "well John promised me..."
Also some other tips:
The caller won't give you their full name. They don't have to because they have the same right to privacy that you enjoy (remember, it's the company that insists on calling you - they just want to get paid).
The FTC has strict rules against cursing on the phone. You can yell at them and say what you want, but they have to show restraint or you can win up to $10,000 dollars, sometimes more.
Lastly: It's bad business to call cell phones - how can you even tell if they want your product
We had special lists which help pager and cell numbers- we ran it across our main lists to remove them. That is the only good thing we did there.
The best thing was when I got an auto-dial number which for some reason just had a local TV station's audio play 24/7. It was great to listen to TV while not doing anything.
Get your Unix fortune now!
Indiana has a list that individuals can be put on that makes it illegal for telemarketers to call. Residents must call an 800 number (888-834-9969) or fill out a brief form on the Attorney General's website to be put on the list that goes into effect a few times a year. Although telemarketers are mad about the decision and are taking legal action against the state as we speak.
You've GOT to be kidding? WHO actually buys? Oh yes, I forgot, the entire telemarketing industry exists just because there's a large group of people who enjoy calling people at home just for kicks.
Let's do some database querys and see who buys.
58 (Dialer) Busy
77 (Dialer) Dialer too busy
4653 (Dialer) No Answer
2088 (Dialer) No Signal
86156 (Dialer) Not in service
13289 (Dialer) Voice Mail
75742 Answering Machine
512 Busy
4053 Callback
11133 Client Hung Up
6725 Failed Qualification Questions
1615 No Call State
22323 Not in service
66396 Refused
7644 Sale
1866 Spanish
41270 Wrong Number
Oh look at that. You have 7644 'who the hell buys that' people who bought something over the phone, and that's just 3 months of stats, with 20 agents on the phone.
There are many other stipulations to the do not call list. If the person is in your locality, and has a product that they can show you, lets say season tickets to the football team in your area, there's no do not call list to put you on, they can call you all they want until you tell them you don't want them. Asking to be put on a do not call list with a firm of that nature will do nothing.
It works great -- I've received about 2 unsolicited calls in 5 years.
One simple rule for its versus it's
I often work from home, so have no option but to answer the phone when it rings during those shifts. (and the definition of shifts is pretty blurry w/ my employer).
As a coder, it costs me time to look away from the monitor, pick up the phone, and then (about half the time here) hangup b/c of no answer, and deal w/ a useless meatsack the other half of the time.
I object to the notion that any legislation imposing limits applied to phone-spammers should specify any different limits on land-lines vs cels.
Bottom line is that I don't pay my phone bill to provide a marketing opportunity for anyone. Now, if phone-spammers want to subsidize my phonebill, I'd be interested in discussing that (but I'd certainly send them packing regardless of the terms.)
It's my damn castle. Stay on the other side of the moat.
If targeting cel spam w/ legislation is successful, then I wonder how many landline users would migrate as a result. I'd consider it for that, plus its a superior way to call the cops when crouched in the saferoom cradling the shotgun.
Still, losing the landline makes PPV on Dish a PITA.
Even worse, I wonder about the impact on the already troubled telecom industry (not that I have pity, but hey, we all need connectivity.)
India and Portugal are not what I would call third world countries.
Oh....and I am pretty sure that colored people are just like you and me.
I think you may need to educate yourself about the world a bit.
To Do: 1. Take over world 2. Pick up Milk and Bread on the way home
to land lines? True it costs you money when someone calls your cell phone, but guess what, it also costs you money when they call your land line... If it didn't cost you money you wouldn't get the calls because the phone company would shut you off for not paying your phone bill. I think there should be two options:
1 Free phone line w/ advertising
2 Billed phone line wo/ advertising
And this solves the telesales problem pretty neatly. Calls to mobiles are more than 5x more expensive than calls to landlines, which is ample to put them off the idea.
Over 80% of the UK population has a mobile now -- I really pity you guys over the pond...
Nah, that's a lie. In Britain, we're used to being ripped off for everything. It's nice to see you paying more for once :-P
Considering most tele-marketers use auto-dialers, would it be so hard to grab the definitive list of area-code/extensions that are exclusively used for cellular phones and just apply that to their dial-out lists?
Its not that hard to block out those numbers. What is probably a pain is getting those numbers to begin with. Plus, if no one raises hell, or just says "don't call me" it will never happen.
The world moves for love. It kneels before it in awe.
Are you american?
I remember something I heard about five years ago (I think in Colorado) where a guy started recording all his calls from telemarketers. He would guide the calls into a perverted personal quest with explicit probing questions like "are you wearing any underwear...what color...", and as the caller would respond, the questions became more intense.
He took his favorite top 10 messages, and made a CD and sold them as a joke album in local stores. Some local radio stations picked up copies and were playing them during the morning rush-hour.
As I recall, he was able to disclose the "call was being recorded" and was clear that "the caller could hang up if they wish". I guess this was enough to cover himeself legally. Some of the calls really got pretty detailed and disgusting...until the unfortunate caller couldn't stand any more and eventually hung up.
Anyone heard of this?
Suncoast Linux - Sarasota, FL
The Colorado No-call list can be joined here [coloradonocall.com] or by calling 1-888-249-9097.
An Oklahoma law just went into effect establishing the same thing. Does anybody know where to join this list? (oklahomanocall.com doesn't work)
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
I will go through this one more time.
You call a friend. You tell him to call your cell. You are next door to him.
According to your plan, this is a free call, as all local calls are free in North America.
Now, explain to me how they are going to make money on the cellphone system in this fashion, and don't forget the pay-as-you-go systems that would only require a single "refill" for the life of the phone if it only received incoming calls. And try to keep it under 100 words.
Thank you.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Not _all_ European ideas are bad ones. :)
I'm particularly fond of that Linux idea.
I don't know if this would work for cell phones, but it worked for my land line:
1) Change your phone number. Request that your new number is unlisted (meaning one cannot request it from directory services, and it's not in The Book).
2) Do not give your new phone number to anyone but friends, family, and others you trust -- explain to them it is unlisted and not to share your phone number without checking with you first. Do NOT give it to your credit card company. Do not give it to your electric company. Do not give it to your bank. Do not enter it in web forms, contest forms, or any other kind of form. Do not give it to strangers. Do not give it to the paper boy. Treat it at least as preciously as your Social Security or debit card number.
3) For god's sake, don't give it to Dunn and Bradstreet!
4) Should you get a telemarketing call (random dialers can still hit you), follow the junkbuster procedures for recording information about the call and have you put on the DNC list so you can sue if they call again.
Does it work? I didn't get any telemarketing calls for four years -- zero, zilch, nada, none -- until I got a DUNS number from Dunn and Bradstreet. I got three calls over a period of five months (various companies trying to sell goods and services to my "small business"), bitched up a storm trying to get my number removed from their public listing, then finally changed my number again.
Pain in the ass? Yeah, a little. Worth it? OH YES! I can jump out of the shower, shampoo dripping on the carpet, with confidence that when I pick the phone up there will be someone on the other end of the line I do want to talk to.
Well, telemarketers use a machine to dial a bunch of numbers. Much of the time no one answers, or the line is busy, or they get an answering machine. A computer listens for these cases and will hang up when it encounters one and try the next number. In the meantime, the telemarketers just sit and wait. When someone picks up and says "Hello", the machine connects that line to a telemarketer. That telemarketer may not realize that he was connected, as he could have been sitting and waiting for a while. Usually we get impatient and say "Hello" a second time and then the telemarketer realizes they have been connected and jumps in with their sales pitch.
Now, if you always say "Hello" only once the machine will connect you but the telemarketer often doesn't realize he has a customer. If you sit there and be very quiet you can often hear the telemarketers talking amongst themselves. One of my friends heard a very racey conversation this way.
Thus, the free phone sex.
Are you sure it wasn't french?
My work cell phone has a simple number - if you make one up for my area code, you've probably got it.
Some woman gave her credit card company a fake phone number before she skipped town, leaving a large bill piled up. The fake number she gave them was my cell phone number.
Those bastards were calling a couple of dozen times a day demanding to speak to whatever her name was, and assumed that I was trying to trick them when I kept trying to tell them I had no idea who they were talking about. Every time I tried to explain what was going on, they would just keep yelling, threatening, and swearing. If I hung up, they would call back within 60 seconds.
It was made worse, because I work nights, and have to be reachable in case of emergencies via that cell phone.
Eventually they stopped calling after a month or two - I guess they managed to track her down.
Instead of asking slashdot for the most trivial shit why not fucking use google. You would have found the answer to your question in about a minute. What a fucking brilliant idea.
I'm a hitman, just making a living the only way I know how. Please don't insult by suggestioning I use my abilities in another profession where I might do some good, or learn another skill. I am only human, and doing anything other than calling people is beyond me.
What?
Yeah, funny, a lot of telemarketers are from the midwest, because they have a neutral accent. The midwest, while slowly becoming more diverse as far as race, it is still dominated by people of European descent. Most telemarketers that call me sound to be from the south; however.
What?
Verizon offers it. Anything that comes up on your caller ID as unknown name ,unknown number will be caught at the phone company. The caller will then be dropped into a voice box asking them to identify themselves. If they do so your phone will ring and it will be verizon asking you to accept the call. You then choose to accept it, deny it, drop them into your voice mail, or choose an option that sends a prerecorded message targeted at telemarketers that you are not interested and to put your number on their do not call list. Once again, Your phone will ring 'only' if he caller chooses to go through the auth process.
I have not gotten a single telemarking call since. Futhermore, You can ask verizon to block all phone calls originating from automated calling devices. See if your telco offers a similar option. Best $4.00 a month I ever spent.
Peter
www.alphalinux.org
Me: (after some looking to see where the ringing was coming from, opening the little door, and picking up) Um... Hello?
Telemarketer: Good afternoon. This is the Seattle Times we have a very special...
Me: Do you realize you've reached an elevator?
Telemarketer: (puzzled pause) Uh...Sir, let me check if we have your correct address...
Me: It's the 17th floor.. no wait.. the 18th.. no, wait.. now it's the 19th...
(And so on)
Apparently some office building are rigged so that even the elevator extensions have direct-dial...
A man, a plan, a canal: Suez!
And the other day I bought a can of Pringles and it was printed in both English and Spanish. Do you have a point? Did you ever think that perhaps the company, in some twisted scheme to make more of a profit, may sell their product to Spanish-speaking countries and not limit themselves to just the US/Canadian market?
I had 4 unknown number calls tonight. I finally answered #4 and had to say hello half a dozen times before some guy came on. He said he was from MCI and wanted to cut my telephone bill in half. I didn't let him finished. I asked if they were the ones that called here 3 other times that evening. He said he didn't know. I told him I wasn't interested in switching to MCI and asked to be put on their DO NOT CALL LIST. He said there wasn't such a thing. I informed him that they were required to by law. He said that wasn't possible because he was never told that in training. I asked for his super. He hung up on me. This shit is really aggravating.
The really stupid thing in this matter is that you have to pay for calls made TO you...
;)
Move to Sweden, here we don't pay for somebody elses phone calls...
Did you already add the "Help, I'm stuck on a mountaintop, and my minutes are up" spiel to your .wav collection. You should. It's hilarous ;-)
Say no to software patents.
Change your call plan to free incoming and realize thats all you can do about it. Don't give out your cell phone number any more either, dingleberry.
...All I can say is that my life is pretty strange...
Why not abuse the telemarketers? They are being incredibly rude, and they are abusing you by calling you.
I usually just tell them to put me on the no-call list, but if I am in a bad mood, they give me a chance to vent.
I once had a telemarketer call who was very persistent. I told him the got go f*ck himself. He hung up on me.
A while later, his supervisor called to chew me out for making his employee unhappy. I told *him* to go f*ck himself and hung up.
Never heard from them again.
This "its just their job" stuff shouldn't work for them any more than it did for the Waffen SS.
I don't work for immoral companies (I could make a lot of money selling my skills to organized crime, for example), and neither should they.
My current approach is to use my Fax number whenever I need to give a home phone number. Its amazing how many calls my Fax gets that never leave a fax message. Hee hee hee
The only good weather is bad weather.
In Denmark, it's solved even more elegantly.
Telemarketing is simply not allowed-- on home nor on mobile phones.
Since moving here from the US, the phone has become so much less of a nuisance.
how's that for a solution?
-Dennis
I work for a telemarketing company. (There are no IT jobs in Winnipeg, it's a cesspool) Our policy is to only put someone on our Do Not Call list if they say the words "Don't Call", "Do Not Call", or something very similar. Just saying "Not Interested" won't get you off our list; you'll get called when we have something new to offer. Once you've indicated you want out of our list, we indicate that you may still recieve mail or calls from us up to 90 days because we as telemarketers cannot stop mail or calls already scheduled. We then tell you how to opt out of all solicitations and not just ours, and include the snail mail address:
Mail Preference Service
Direct Marketing Association
PO Box 9008
Farmingdale, NY 11735-9008
You write them and indicate you want to be removed from all solicitations.
Hope this helps.
Neutiquam erro
Note 1: As many of you probably know, Colorado just enacted a no-call list. It was shot down the first time on a more or less party-line vote (the democrats voted for it, republicans voted against it) but in the face of enormous popularity with the voters was enacted the second time. It went into effect July 1st (that is, people signed up by a certain date can no longer be called as of last Monday) and so many people signed up they kept overloading the system. If someone calls you, you can file a complaint; after (I think it was 3?) complains they look into it. You can also take the company to small claims court for up to $500. Can't offer any hard numbers, but I can tell you that the number of calls I've been getting is WAY down this week....
Second, a bit of humor from one of my favorite comic strips (Ozy and Millie):
Telemarketer: Could I interest you in aluminum siding?
Lewellyn: Well, you won't have to try very hard! Alluminum siding has a deceptively interesting history. It was first invented.." etc etc
Telemarketer: (hangs up)
Twenties Retirement
Firstly, paying for incoming calls on cell phones is the most stupidest thing that I have ever heard of on this side of the world - I am from South Africa and we follow the WORLD trend. To my knowledge, you guys are the only ones who have options that include paying for incoming calls. HAHAHA. Yeah, typical Americans - coming back to a previous Slashdot article on how backward the Americans are with cellular technology and trends. So yeah, paying for incoming unwanted calls from telemarketers is your own fault in anycase. Deal with it!
That doesn't suddenly make charging to RECEIVE a call on a wireless device alright - I think it's INSANE. No wonder the wireless penetration in the US is so low.
So what you have fixed rate local calls - in Australia we pay like 0.15AUD (8c US) for local calls no matter how long they go for and we have a decent cellular charging system as well...
So if we can have the best of both worlds, I don't see why other countries can't.
Basic summary: telemarketing and fax-ads require advance permission of the receipient (which be revoked any time, without affecting any other contractual relationships). And it outlaws UCE and UBE as well.
Violations of this law are misdemeanors (IIRC) and can be fined up to 36336 Euro. You don't have to sue, you just need to notify the government.
And yes, telemarketing and (homegrown) spam are no problems in Austria.
I thought those green couch cell phones are like fixed cost per month local regardless of usage. Now, this sounds like a reason NOT to get their service? Will this service be exempt from the no-cell-call list?
jjshoe asks: "...My concern is that this all costs me minutes, which of course equals money. What laws are out there for me?
I think the only solution is to move to a country where the operator does not charge you for incoming calls. I still get the annoying telemarketers, but at least all they steal from me is my time not my money.
If time was money we would all be sitting on our arses waiting to get rich.
Does anyone have any advice on things I can do to get these tele-marketers to stop calling on my cellphone?
Move to Taiwan. In Taiwan the caller pays all of the charges incurred by the call including the airtime. All calls to cellphones are technically long distance (as all cellphones have their own area code). If you do not call anyone on your cellphone the charges will be under US$10 per month in most cases.
Cellphone service in the US is a rip-off. Prices are too high and service is terrible. And still the cellphone industry is whining about why they do not have enough customers. Go figure.
All data is speech. All speech is Free.
I work for a telemarketing company, and I can assure you that despite your beliefs, we DO try to avoid calling people who are being charged for the call. We maintain a database of what numbers go where, and when we find an exchange that is used by a cel phone company, we block it. Unfortunately, we can only identifiy these by trial-and-error because there is no public record of which exchanges are used for cel phones. (if you find one, post a link, we'll use it!)
Also, no every telemarketing company operates this way. Lots of telemarketing organizations operate in poor style, or downright illegally. Junk faxes are one example similar to this, costing the consumer money (in toner and paper) for each transmission. Telemarketing a recorded sales message is also against the rules, but I can recall receiving two of these myself.
My advice for you... I've seen a few people here suggest "don't answer". Bad idea. If you don't answer, we WILL call back. Probably quite a few times. And your name will STAY on our client's merketing list, so you WILL get another volley of calls down the road. If you want to make a telemarketer go away, it's very easy to do. Answer, and when you determine it's an unwanted telemarketing call, say the magic words "put me on your do-not-call list". By federal law, the rep must terminate the sales script, is allowed to read an 800 number for you to reach their client at, will thank you for your time, and immediately hang up. (non-proffit organizations and creditors are not included in this requirement) This places your number on the telemarketer's DNC list, stops further calling from that telemarketing organization, and forwards your number back to the client to be blacklisted from their marketing list. This process is permanent for that client, but you will have to do it for about 6 months before all the major companies that use telemarketing to advertise finally get your number on their DNC list. Try it, it really does work.
Im in the UK and registered with TPS, so no marketing calls for me. However, a game I liked to play was to allow them to talk. Respond to their questions. The ask them to hold while I get a pen to write this down. The record so far is 11 minutes before they hung-up.
If you reverse the situation, you make everyone with cell phones happier ("Hey, my cell phone bill just went WAY down!") but you anger all the non-cell phone users ("What are all these extra charges on my bill?").
What, all ten of them living underneath some mountain? Who doesn't have a mobile? Landlines are for Internet (cable doesn't reach everywhere yet, and the price plans for cable cost more than my internet phone usage). I would say there are more in-use mobiles than in-use domestic landlines in northern european countries.
It costs me way less today to ring 12,000 miles to the other side of the world on my mobile than it did on a landline 8 years ago. Admittedly the mobile-to-mobile rate (across different networks) costs the same as that, which seems a bit steep. But that is nationwide so I don't get charged extra if they are at the beach for the weekend. Admittedly they do if the beach is in Spain, but they can choose to turn roving on or off.
Caller:> I'd like a Family Size BBQ Pizza.
Techie:> ehh... (checks customer service manual... must do what ever caller wants...) OK, I guess we can handle that what address do you want it delivered to?
Caller:> (Address)
Techie:> OK, we will get it to you right away
Techie orders and collects pizza, delivers to address
Techie:> That'll be $13.95
Caller:> OK, (hands over fee)
Techie:> You are welcome, at newbie-tech-support we do everything we can to help our customers. In future you might as well cut out the middle man and go straight to pizza hut/ though to be honest Pizza Hut is probably more qualified for your pizza delivery needs. If you have any computer related needs we will be happy to provide qualified assistance.
We use GNU/SunOS.
I shouldn't have to pay more money for my call, because someone else decides to use a more expensive service. They should pay the difference.
If someone wants to call me, they usually want something from me, therefore they pay for it.
-- You ain't seen me, right?
From some of the previous posts I understand that you guys in the States have to pay to receive calls.
Over here in Europe, we only pay to make them...
When I was in the US, the first minute of answered calls was free. So just hang up within the first minute!
All of you are missing one VERY important issue in the European system. True, it is the caller who pays, and true, he know he is calling a celular ( because the prefix is different ).
So, that is why, when calling a cel phone, we use our cel phone. Minutes are then charged at the standard subscription rate ( where you have a number of minutes per month ) and you don't pay a cent more.
I have no idea on the technicalities of how to do this, but setting up your PC to receive faxes... and receive them V E R Y S L O W L Y seems the go. Make a fax take a good 20 minutes to come in. Or more. 300bps fax mode baby!. Make them pay the long distance calls every time.
Correct, you cannot determine a cellphone from a landline using the area code (in ANY state). You can however, tell from the exchange (first 3 digits) - I am sure there are databases out there that will tell you which exchanges are cell phone exchanges.
I'm so glad I live in Europe. Here the caller pays for all the charges in a call to a cell phone. And quite expensive at that (about 20 or 30 cents a minute). I never have and never heard of anyone receiving a telemarketing call in a cell phone...
Same in New Zealand: Local calls are free. But, all cell phones have a specific area code, depending on the operator (021 or 025). Hasn't stopped the adoption of cell phones in NZ
In Australia all mobile phone numbers start with 04 and are then followed by 8 digits. So it is pretty obvious it is a mobile number. Calls are at the callers expense. The only time the phone owner will be charged for receiving a call, is if they are overseas and have international roaming setup. Also it seems the US is the only country to currently have telemarketing as widespread as it is.
It seems absolutely crazy to charge to receive calls, as this would cause the penetration of mobiles to drop dramatically as it would exclude poor people (e.g. many teenagers).
In most parts of the world mobile phones are numbered within psudo area codes, which are clearly identifiable as mobile phones. With no charges for incomming calls.
In the US, probabaly the entire NANP mobile phones look much like normal numbers, unless you start looking at the entire number down to the 7th digit. With the cost to the caller being the same as any other number in the same area code. Hence paying for incoming calls, even though cellular infrastructure is probably cheaper to build and maintain than landlines. Digging a trench, especially in an urban area, is not cheap.
One UK operator offered phones with numbering and charging similar to that in the US, they didn't sell very well.
You could still go down to your local drug store and buy there :)
Not really true anymore. Yeah, it used to be, but now must European countries have internet calling plans where you pay per min, some where you pay per month, and some where there is a combination (e.g. cheaper per month, but pay for peak calls only).
I thought all printing companies were stationary, unless they operated from the back of a lorry.
Oh wait, you meant 'stationery'
'The Spelling Fascist'
They will never know the simple pleasure of a monkey knife fight
Doesn't seem crazy to me. I'm on that sort of tarriff with my phone company in the UK. This I do by paying a larger monthly fee. If I wanted a lower monthly fee, I could pay for local calls. Are you saying that Americans don't have that choice?
Christ, it takes TWO seconds to find laws on this with Google. Been on the net long?
I believe telemarketing is a plague and should plain and simple become illegal. Spam should also be illegal, as any unsollicited publicity. I'm gonna start charging rental space for my mailbox!
Having to use area codes on local calls are not much of
a disadvantage on a cell phone.
Most calls (especially local calls) are not made by actual
dialing (typing) the numbers.
They are made from the cell phones phone book.
And what if you move to a different area?
I guess you need a new phone number for
a _cell_ phone?
The way I see it, in order for telemarketing to be profitable, you have some sort of "make-or-break" ratio, such as selling one product or service per x amount of phone calls. Make a sale, and it allows you to make another x amount of calls.
So, you would think if everbody hates telemarketing, and nobody buys anything from them, they would eventually seise to exist. If XYZ Co. makes a million calls, and no one buys, then they would obviously look for another way to sell their products (or not, most marketers are pinheads). But, telemarketing still exists. This is my theory: THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE BUYING THIS SHIT!. Maybe I'm wrong but there seems to me no other explaination. People are buying things from telemarketers which makes it economiclly feasable for these companies to call another 50,000 people. Maybe we should be mad at the people who buy the stuff and not the telemarketers? Or will telemarketing always exist no matter what the bottom line is?
Salesperson Bob: I need your email address.
Answer: Sure thing. It is G... double E... T... B... double E... N... T... @hotmail.com
Better yet, tell 'em that your e-mail is lover@teensex.com. Or come up with something even more raunchy than that. If they give you any weird looks or complain, hey, they asked you!
If you have to PAY for incomming phone calls, you shoud either:
1) go and fuck your self
2) change company.
"If you loved me, you`d all kill yourselves today"
Spider Jerusalem
I have received 3 telemarketers in the past 2 years on my cellphone (e.g. so-and-so calling on behalf of First Union... man do I regret doing business with them). Every time all I say is "Are you aware you are illegally telemarketing to a cellphone? Do not call this number again."
They then tell me it takes a month for their no-call list to work, and say "is that ok?". The "is that ok" part is key for them - they make it seem like it's the only option, and you have to say yes. Obvious solution: say no, inform them once more that they are breaking the law, and hang up.
Sure, you could follow a script and get lots of info and try to go for money - but I'd rather minimize time spent on telemarketers, and I'd say 1 minute a year total is pretty good.
is competition good, or is duplication of effort bad?
There's non-traditional phone service in the US, too. I use my land-line so little that I got a plan from Verizon for $6 a month ($12 after taxes!) which gives me local calls at $0.08 each for the connection, and for outside of the immediate area and within a 100-mile radius or so, calls for $0.07 a minute.
Brian Fundakowski Feldman
You can register with the Telephone Preference Service (TPS) to get your name off *most* call lists.
I haven't had a cold call in months.
Best wishes,
Mike.
I guess they know how to spell; pity I don't.
http://www.hmso.gov.uk
Your sold the minutes in programs set up that the called pay - they do (must by law) offer caller pays contracts also. Less minutes I would bet - eh.
This would aply to all your callers - no switch at that level yet(caller ID billing anyone? future pf feature? VoIP feature?)
This is the way it always has been and most non-technical people over here will look at you as if you were nuts if you suggested that local calls should be anything but free.
Interesting. Within two months of getting a new phone number I had daily solicitation calls. I started answering my phone with "Sheriff's Office..." I do not claim that I'm a police officer, but imply that the caller called the Sheriff's Office. The solicitor would apologize profusely and promise to take me off their list immediately. I very rarely get any solicitation calls anymore.
MOD THIS UP! IT IS INTERESTING!
/ali
I worked my way through college by selling life insurance over the phone to cold customers (a.k.a. telemarketing). I know that what I did was wrong, but that job taught me volumes about the industry and there are a few things I'd like to share:
Many telemarketing firms are moving overseas. FTC rulings cannot control what happens in third-world countries like India and Portugal. The declining cost of international long distance telephone calls is making this a viable option, and soon the best option for most of us will be to block all incoming international calls.
Most domestic telemarketers violate the law. Indeed, calling people on their cellular phones to advertise services or leave prerecorded messages is in direct violation of many state and federal laws. Unfortunately, most telemarketers are boiler-room operations, and enforcement is a serious problem. Often (as was the case at the firm I worked at) the owner sets up a shell corporation that shields him from legal liability for the company's misdeeds. His plan was to dissolve the company and start a new one if he ever got caught.
Telemarketers are people too. Although many telemarketers are colored, most of them are just like you and me. Please do not verbally abuse them - you won't hurt the industry, just somebody (not unlike myself) who is trying to make ends meet.
U.S. corporations are not accountable to anybody. When federal law is changed to make CEOs and executives of rogue corporations liable for prison time, things might change. Until then, everything from illegal telemarketing to accounting scams will be fair game.
Telemarketers are allowed to circumvent caller ID. A very simple solution to the problem of domestic telemarketing calls would be to force telemarketers to stop blocking outgoing CND services. Unfortunately, our Congress has been paid handsomely so that they could keep this privilege.
Things will inevitably get worse before they get better. My recommendation is to buy a good answering machine and don't pick up "unavailable" calls. This blocks 99% of telemarketers in my experience.