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I just googled "Scott Roeder's defense fund". Also, don't stay on Army of God's website too long; it gave me a headache.

http://www.kansas.com/2009/10/25/1026175/auction-planned-for-roeder-defense.html
http://www.armyofgod.com/POCScottRoederLawyerHelp.html

See http://www.targetofopportunity.com/ see http://www.armyofgod.com/

I have a 2yr old and he thinks Train set is Sentient. So I don't really think this is any kind of breakthrough.

I remember feeling guilt about picking an unblemished apple over a bruised one. I must have developed my empathy skills fairly quickly though; only a few months later I was already trying to create a new species of flightless insects.

It seems that the membership of certain organisations are still in the infantile stages though.

OTOH, if birth control is widely available, pre natal care is available to all comers, and food, shelter, and education is given to all children, without question or exception, then one can imagine a world in which every child would be wanted. Likewise, if maximum information and open debate were seen as a asset, and everyone was encouraged to have their say, all everyone was honestly listened to, and no one would retaliate based on personal superstitions, then one could imagine a world in which everyone could be open and honest with their opinions.

In the real world, though, significant militant groups enjoy killing people who disagree with their superstitions. For example, groups have felt the right to kill people who believe differently from them, following a tradition that killed the man that believed that the heart pumped the blood. Clearly when the righteous feel the right to kill based on beliefs, anonymity is necessary.

But I will be a rebel and say that even in a perfect world where all superstition was gone, both anonymity and abortion would still have a place. No matter how careful and care full we are, there will still be that one case where a family might have to choose between the mother and unborn child.

Really? Because I thought that was exactly what James Kopp did.

For perspective on the "ethics" of "Christians":

According to statistics gathered by the National Abortion Federation, an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 7 murders, 17 attempted murders, 3 kidnappings, 375 death threats, 655 anthrax threats, 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 89 attempted bombings or arsons, 1347 incidences of trespassing, 1213 incidences of vandalism, and 100 attacks with butyric acid, in addition to other disruptive and violent occurrences.

Let's be honest now -- there are plenty of Christians that sit around planning ways to kill the nonbelievers. Just like there are Muslims that sit around thinking of ways to kill heretics, just like there are communist radicals and anarcho-syndicalists that plan murders of democratic leaders, etc. Humans are violent monsters, and ideologies make them even more monstrous than usual. Christians are no better than other group of murderous thugs on this planet. And if you don't believe me, visit an abortion clinic sometime and check out how serious the security is. That's the kind of climate of fear that Christian terrorists create.

Still not convinced? A wonder group of faithful men and women. These guys are just great, huh? Are you sure that Christians are never violent and don't use violence as a means of political and social change? If you think I'm blowing what they do out of proportion, just check out the Army of God website. They make absolutely no bones about it: they support and encourage the murder of doctors. Or David Lewis Rice, who murdered an attorney for (as he saw it) spreading atheism. The list goes on and on.

the fact that just yesterday 15 Christians were killed in Nigeria in retaliation for cartoons published in Denmark shows that this type of violence is not being dealt with and is an on-going problem

Other than the fact that 'that sort of crime' happens quite regularly, justice apparently moves swiftly in your world.

Does the fact that the American South has problems with "general lawlessness, abject corruption and violent crime" excuse the killing of abortionists?

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where I excused anything. The article you posted completely ignores the fact that there are many, many other issues at stake in Nigeria, and arbitrarily determines that those deaths must be as a result of 'religious violence'. You can't have one without the other: you feel happy to condemn Muslims because of acts x, y and z, and yet you don't need to condemn Christians because of x, y and z. You miss the point that I'm not blaming clinic bombers becase they are Christian, likewise I don't blame Muslim church burners because they are Muslim. If the church was such an affront to their religion, it wouldn't take a cartoon published to incite them to burn it down. They burned down the church because they were an angry mob, and angry mobs do stupid, and sometimes, evil, shit like that. If you want to do so, then fine, do so, but you're gonna have to wear Christians wearing the blame when the Army Of God http://www.armyofgod.com/ makes it their mission to 'kill abortionists for God'.

My take is neither is acceptable. Yours is that my example is brushed aside, because most of the people who commit such crimes have been tried and convicted, and you pull out a stupid example of something happening yesterday and rant and rave that 'nothing has been done!'

You only give out this "root causes" nonsense because you think that perhaps the terrorists have some good ideas---you dislike globalization, or you don't like the idea of American military hegemony.

You say that People generally become terrorists because they are upset about something., and go on to say that we should address the reasons that they're upset.

Fair enough. How, then, do you propose to deal with the Army of God? Shall we outlaw abortion, because it tweaks some people so hard they feel the need to murder real live adult humans to make their point about the sanctity of life?

--grendel drago

Actually a better, far more realistic scenario...

Say you (or your sister) were a pregnant college girl walking in to get an abortion, and the local "right-to-life"thugs decided to video tape you and use that to identify and/or harass you.

Oh, you agree with the right-to-life thugs? Well what if the abortion clinic uses the same cameras to video tape and identify you and sends some pro-choice thugs over to firebomb your favorite church. Or gives the video to the police to "investigate" you.

Any technology is likely to be misused by people wanting to discredit, harass, or abuse their enemies.

-philip.