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Wal-Mart Asked to Drop Christian Video Game
doug141 writes "Liberal and progressive Christian groups say a new computer game in which players must either convert or kill non-Christians is the wrong gift to give this holiday season and that Wal-Mart, a major video game retailer, should yank it off its shelves.Players can choose to join the Antichrist's team, but of course they can never win on [his] side. The enemy team includes fictional rock stars and folks with Muslim-sounding names, while the righteous include gospel singers, missionaries, healers and medics."
Is it like a critical fairy tale believer?
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Lions = 1 , Christians = 0
does it have a 100ft robotic Jesus with spinning cross attack?
How about the star of David Ion canon?
Christianity is finally growing a pair.
I think that's about all I can say about this.
But you are mowing down your enemy with a gun. It pushes a message of religious intolerance.
Kind of like the current state of Many religions. Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc... all kill for the sake of their god, They just are catching up to what he christians did the past 500 years.
Killing a group of schoolchildren because they would not wear the stupid veil. Yeah, that's a peaceful religion!
All of you except the buddists are sick individuals that use your beliefs as a reason to kill murder and rape.
Wow, that's so divorced from reality.
When I read the description of the game in the article, I told myself "I cannot believe it". So you can imagine where I stand on the issue of faith...
I'm holding out until it comes out for the Wii
...ass-hat would make a game like this in the first place, and what the fsck was Wal-Mart thinking when they agreed to sell it ?
Intellectuals across the nation have asked that all retail stores take America's Army off their shelves and that americasarmy.com be shut down.
I have read the article and still can't tell whether the game makers are actually serious or not. I laughed with the it's ok to kill as long as you prey really hard - satire worthy of Stephen Colbert. Either way, I think, the game designers are worthy of our greatest of laughter.
Can't wait for a reaction of Jack Thompson on this one...
It's not like anyone is going to bomb us for being hateful and derisive of other people and their beliefs. Right?
They're just mad because sales-wise it's been 'crucifying' another religious game starring a rabbi.
Sounds like a pretty awful game, tasteless and cliched but worst of all unbalanced...the anti-christ team can't even win. But why give them the handy excuse of being censored for its impending failure? I say let them sell it, and let the free kill them.
Plus, all media must be protected...even, and especially, the shitty stuff like this.
What's the problem? Practically every interesting game has some "objectionable" content. This is yet another attempt at censorship. The only "twist" to this story is that instead of the "holy-rollers" complaining, it is the "anti-holy-rollers" who now have a bee in their bonnet. Sort of "dog bites man" if you will.
If Wal-Mart listened to the complaint every fringe group, Wal-Mart would have to go out of business. But hey, maybe that's the hidden agenda of these various whiners.
They are the Antichrist! They can never win.
That's what happens when you become a stinking hypocrite! Christians history is full of blood, other people's blood. Reminds me of the letter a knight sent to his mother (or was it the king?) telling him that muslims' blood is reaching the horses' knees during the crusades.
Syllable 0.62 is here at last!!!
Besides, who wouldn't want to dominate the world for seven years of darkness? I call Marilyn Manson as my right hand man!
"Live as if you'll die tomorrow." Ridiculous. You could die later today.
It's funny to me how religious followers are always offended when someone pokes fun at their beliefs, but then they have no problem being judgemental, insulting and forget they are part of one of the most violent and viscious organizations in history. (see: Crusades, Persecution, Inquisition...) Personally I would have made it so the anti christ could win. When you won every corner would suddenly have a starbucks, HMA's would be worse than Stalin, everyone would be driving a gas guzzling SUV and our president would be satan himself... ... wait a sec... crap...
The game is designed to be a classic battle between good and evil,
but it does not gratuitously depict violence or death. http://www.leftbehindgames.com/pages/controversy.
and it does look really bad. It does come across as nothing more than "covert or die". If taken in context, the game works just fine. There is nothing PC about religion and trying to apply PC centric ideals to a game based on religion and one groups belief of the end times is even dumber than any game can be.
The books, yes I read them - I love most end time fiction (whether is religious or not - Zelazny wrote some good stuff). The books deal with a society where the surviving members of society are either members of the new world order and subscribe to that order's church or are denied rights, and eventually killed out of hand. Christians are set as the opposing force, after all its a book from Christians about a story in Bible. Throughout the series they convert many people from various religions and non-beliefs. Though many times that never convert and directly or indirectly stop them. It isn't all happy go lucky and neither will be the game.
I look at it this way, if those Christian readers who take offense at the game were not offended by the books then they are just hypocritical. Does making it a game, itself just another work of fiction, present it in a way that that is more offensive than print? I guess seeing a visual representation does the trick for many people. I know many who can read murder novels, even graphic ones, but take offense at seeing dead bodies on the TV. Hell, there are many who can read about sex but damn if they would watch it.
Look, the first rule is no one is forcing anyone to buy it. The second rule is, you have the right to be offended but you do not have the right to suppress what offends you. The third rule is, get over it.
Leave the game in the stores. There are far more more violent and offensive games that have come out and they are still sold. If we change the rules because the game is based on religious themes how long before we change the rules for everything else?
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Off course the geek reply would be to make a patch - somewhere - available, in which the "non-christians" win
Or, even better, where the "opposition" could convert as well.
Or, even better, where the names of non-christians and christians was reversed?
Seriously though, this seems to be on the same scale as those hedious games in which neo-nazi's kill jews...
My guess is, though, that this game will be short lived: who wants to play a game in which only one side (the "non Carpatia" side) can win?
To develop a game where the christians invade the muslims homeland. They rape, plunder, and pillage their lands and people and then leave it for dead. Such a far out scenario would cause such controversy. Oh wait...
"It pushes a message of religious intolerance."
;)
Talk about realism in video games! I'm amazed! How did they get it so life-like?
They don't dislike the 'Left Behind' book and game series because it's inaccurate. They dislike it because it's TOO accurate. It shows how religious people really think and act. Okay, so maybe the Pastor at the local church doesn't use a gun to convert people, but the message is the same: Convert to my religion or burn in everlasting flames. And maybe if they left it at a statement, it wouldn't be so bad. But we still have clergy that do completely immoral and unethical things, sometimes not even to further their cause, but for personal gain. And they get away with it.
I used to call myself Christian, but not really name which type (Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, etc). Now, I say I believe sort of like they do, but with a few major differences:
God doesn't care what religion you are, so long as you are a good person.
God doesn't care what name you call him by.
The Bible was written by man, not God. It was then translated by man, not God. Several times. It is a tool to guide you to the correct path, and nothing more. All holy books serve this same purpose, no matter the religion. Church is also such a tool. (I won't get into corruption, that's a long debate.)
Instead of merely tolerating other religions, I embrace them. They are God's methods of helping us be better people.
So far, I'm pretty much alone in my religion. I don't imagine I'll be setting up a church any time soon.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
And if so, which side is he on? The devil-spawned "Christian" fundamentalists' or the devil-spawned baby-slaying heathens'?
And who cares? Let's just kill them all and let God sort them out (in the game of course)
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
As a person of faith, I have to say stuff like this is terrifying and it makes you wonder if orthodoxy *anything* is good and acceptable. I am talking about Orthodox Christians like those who apparently created this game. Orthodox Muslims or Orthodox Jews are in the same camp in my eyes as it seems like Orthodoxy has gone through a change of sorts where it used to mean one who adhered to traditional, established faith. However, it has seemed to pervert over the last few years into an intolerant form of belief where non-believers must be killed, eliminated or otherwise marginalized. The Orthodox Christians here in the USA have certainly caused this country problems as well as pretty much screwed things up internationally, while the Orthodox Jews are persecuting the Palestinians and the Orthodox Muslims are perverting their own brand of religion, sewing hate and violence not just internationally, but in their own home countries.
they so stole the idea from the Simpsons.
Don't Tread on Me
I'm guessing a Christian who does not feel it imperative to impose their beliefs and values (for US "regressive" Christians typically the belief that the King James translation of the Bible is the only true words of God, and a selected subset of old testament values combined with some values from an imaginary 50's America) on other people.
Which of course make it hypocritical to campaign for the ban of a video-game portraying different values. Of course the values of the video game seems to be that it is good to impose your values on other people.
the gameplay really sucks anyway, so maybe the game will do more harm to the cause they are trying to promote than good....
At any rate, didn't a parody of a game similiar in mechanics to this appear on the Simpsons like 10 years ago?
Monstar L
By "Marilyn Manson" I think you mean "Dick Cheney."
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
Is Wal-Mart actively promoting some religious idea or merely delivering a product for which there is demand? It pains me when people forget that freedom OF religion does not mean freedom FROM religion, regardless of the religion or ideas. It's even worse when people decide to use something like supply and demand to promote their dislike for "big businesses" like Wal-Mart and go on a near religious crusade of their own to undermine the very ideals our constitution guarantees
Anything you say will be held against you.
Does this mean that Medieval 2: Total War, where one also converts or exterminates ones enemies, or [Doom|Quake] [1-4] should also be banned, or....? The list would be endless.
The plot outline of the game is tawdry, but banning is far to good for it. I think it's just an excuse to drum up sales for something that will be a cut price game by March next year.
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
That's what real life's for!
Red to red, black to black. Switch it on, but stand well back.
Some masochist at Arstechnica decided to review the thing: http://arstechnica.com/reviews/games/leftbehind.ar s
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
I thought it would be a cold day in their Hell before I did but...
Unfortunately, creating this game is Constitutionally protected free speech, and selling it is completely up to Wal-Mart and other retailers. I think it was done in very poor taste but should be treated no differently than GTA or any other games that are similarly in bad taste.
Clones are people two.
Look, I'm Jewish, and think this type of game is terrible, but Walmart is not the only seller of this game. Why single out Walmart?
...doesn't mean it has anything to do with truly following Christ. A lot of people call themselves Christian, but don't really practice "daily dying to their self."
Sad, but typical.
Interesting because I know someone at my university who will probably buy this game. He commented about playing fable and how he doesn't take the evil branch because, "I don't think going to heaven and saying 'Hey God, I like killing people in a video game,' is a good idea." But you know, killing them in a game where he's doing it in God's name certainly is!
"Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
Hasn't "convert or die" been the motto of christianity for centuries now?
Everyone here is playing right into the Christians hands...
Fact: Christians have not killed any Muslims in Iraq or Afghanistan or Palestine.
Erm....
Sounds like a cool game.
If the bible thumpers cant take a joke and realize its JUST A DAMNED GAME, then screw them. ( and i dont even like video games.. but i understand its just recreation )
All this 'political correctness' nonsense and 'cant hurt someones feelings' garbage has gotten way out of hand.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Make some games based on the eschatology of other religions.
The devils greatest achivement.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
It has a multiplayer!!! I'm buying a copy right now I can't wait to kill some christians then I'm going to kill some anti-chrisians. Miltary and spirtual forces at my finger tips i won't need to PVP in wow for weeks.
- DenialX
first.... was it developed here or outsourced to India?
I'd actually like to see this thing in action. Who cares what the slant or "message" may be? It's up to intelligent people to decide for themselves what they like, think or believe. And we'll never evolve as a people, a species or a culture if we constantly go about trying to stop people from seeing and thinking things.
It was only yesterday when I had a moment of reflection on my own changes in perceptions of things. I was born in 1968 and was very young when I first saw Star Wars. During that same area in time, I saw a black bell on a daycare building and thought to myself, "That bell looks like Darth Vader!" I now think that Darth Vader looks like a bell. The difference in perception is pretty clear to me but it also goes to show how minds change, develop and evolve over time and with life's experience.
So yes. Let it be. Let kids play games where they are evangelical Christians or characters from greek or other ancient mythology and legend. You cannot really condemn one game without condemning them all.
Here's one take on the game I'd like to hear: Who is that nut always trying to get violent video games banned? Yeah, that guy. What's his take on the game? "Convert or Die!" sounds pretty gruesome to me...
If I didn't know my history well enough to know that this country was founded by atheistic-leaning deists so that a variety of religious could (and did) immigrate here to practice their religion without being murdered by the government for it, I would ask "why are we selling such insane tripe?"
Alas, while "this country was not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" (as George Washington once said), the nation was attractive in its design of keeping religion and government separate, thus attracting the craziest religious wackos Europe had to offer.
And so today, we have the descendants of those WASPs (and their non-Bible-reading, believers-in-anything, unthinking Catholic parallels) running the nation and pushing -- of all things -- a video game that, against one of the 10 commandments ("thou shalt not kill"), has you running around murdering unbelievers. But then, who ever said religious people were consistent and non-hypocritical?
The game is popular enough to show up on Wal-Mart shelves, and because Wal-Mart carries the game, it is clear that the intended market for the game are the lower classes -- just the sort of people who believe most-strongly in the nonsense that is all deistic belief (whether Christian, Islamic, Buddhist, atheist, or any other belief in the existence/non-existence of a god).
The U.S. is one frighteningly-ignorant nation sometimes.
* This message sponsored by the Church of the FSM. *
Is Capitalism Good for the Poor?
Yea, promoting people praying to Jesus over Allah / Mohammad or the almighty Al Gore is SO tasteless. Give me a fucking break. The only way you could say that it's tasteless is if they actually PROMOTED killing non-Christians (which they don't, it's merely a possible course of action -- which any time in real life killing someone is always a possible course of action........just not reccomended unless you want to go to a Federal "pound-me-in-the-ass" prison).
I'm ordering this video game right now. This is the most offensively awsome thing to ever come out.
I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
pure extremist fucks like these exist very much inside the country. Get rid of them first before fighting terrorism outside.
Bah, forget banning it. What would be better is some total game mods - for example, one that would enable you to send your gay, atheist, science teachers in to battle Bible-bashing Christian bigots! That would rock!
I know of lots of games where "Arabian" countries are the bad guys. You can kill them then and its OK? Most RTS games use obvious characteristics of that easily assignable to regions of the world, either race based or religious but why no offense there?
the game does give the players an out, they don't have to kill anyone and actually lose score if they do so how does the game teach that its okay to kill non-believers? It doesn't, but that doesn't make a good story and we can sit in our coffee shops with our macbooks sipping lattes while mocking Christians and other people of faith can we?
Giving children games where people are getting killed, regardless if its religious based, historical, or fiction, isn't the brightest idea. Yet if we are going to hold one group, or in this case one small segment of a larger group, to certain standards why don't we hold everyone to them? Is it only okay because we believe we can browbeat certain groups or another?
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Hopefully you folks who advocate banning the game can clear things up in my confused mind.
In fantasy land...
BAD to kill imaginary non-believers.
OK to kill imaginary space aliens.
BAD OR OK to kill non-believing aliens?
OK to kill Prussians, Germans, and Japanese.
BAD to kill Jews.
BAD OR OK to kill Japanese Jews?
In real life?
OK to kill little old ladies and teens while serving warrants.
BAD to kill Muslims who advocate blowing up MORE non-believers.
BAD OR OK to kill a Muslim who advocates blowing up non-believers while serving a warrant?
"It's where the Christians don't believe in Mohammad that the "disconnect" occurs."
They don't "believe" in him? In what way? The Christian Bible was written before Mohamed was even born! As to belief or non-belief... I don't know of a Christian who doesn't believe Muhammad existed. No serious person doesn't believe in Mohamed.
Oh, here's something to get all upset over... Jesus was born long after the Torah was written, but Jewish scholars do believe the Jesus existed.
No offense, but you seem to be living in a weird alternate reality. It doesn't match anything on planet earth. And trust me, I've traveled all over this earth.
I wonder if Dr. Wang would approve of this game.
It can't be any worse than Racist Checkers.
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
by and large they aren't produced by people purporting to represent a peaceful religion.
In other words, you have groups like Focus on the Family and the like going after every semi-violent video game for destroying culture and humanity, but when the game is about a Christian gunning down non-believers, well, gunning down non-Christians apparently is one of the few things in life that doesn't make baby Jesus cry.
That is what was so important about getting a progressive Christian group on board the protest. Otherwise, it's just that wacko leftist radicalist group "Campaign to Defend the Constitution" attacking upstanding Christians for creating and distributing (presumably for a fair personal profit nonetheless, correct me if I'm wrong) a game that is essentially all about killing or converting anyone not like you in religious belief.
I do wonder what dog the Campaign to Defend the Constitution has in this fight. If you go to their web site http://www.defconamerica.org/our-issues/Campaign to Defend the Constitution, it looks as if most of their issues deal with the separation of church and state. Now, I'm actually a pretty staunch separation of church and state libertarian, but that's exactly why their involvement rubs me the wrong way--the government did not produce, is not selling or otherwise promoting this game. If the game sucks, or enough people find its themes objectionable, then such games will be (once again) relegated to small fundie independent programmers that pretty much everyone ignores or makes fun of because the games suck and the themes are laughable, but it's just strange to find a group with a mission purportedly involving the separation of church and state jump into a campaign against a private software developer to get a business to pull a game from their shelves.
Finally, is anyone getting sick of the "hidden agenda" attack? I know I am.
Happy goldfish bowl to you.
...it's good for the Christian community to get a taste of its own methods for once.
Maybe next time they'll leave the Snoop Dogg CDs alone.
Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
I couldn't agree more. It is time for some anti-christian (and all people who use belief to puss thier infriority into superiority) backlash. I think it is time to hear "to the lions" ringing in the ears of those arrogant enough to have faith in anything. Look, I am all for the masses believing in the prince of peace and turn the other cheek, but unfortunately, christians are the reason america has taken a turn for the violent. If you believe in an afterlife - you scare the fuck out of me. You don't have the same commitment to THIS life that I do.
But I do know about Christian theology. It's my understanding that Jews accept Jesus as a teacher, but *not* as God. Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet, but not as God. Of course, I disagree with them. I believe that Jesus was a real, live person walking on earth about 2,000 years ago, and that he was also God of the universe.
Slashdot is not known for editorial accuracy. I doubt that Muslims are the non-Christian "star" of the books. Pragmatically speaking, it seems to me that if all Christians are missing, then the 1.2 billion Muslims will be relatively more prevalent. The blurb reads "muslim-sounding" names - showing how ignorant we Americans are. Since we're the population minority in the world, almost everyone has a "foreign-sounding" name.
According to one line of Christian theology, all Christians are removed from earth by God during what is called the rapture. After this, there are *no* Christians until some people rediscover what the Bible teaches. During this season of time, people can become Christians, and the idea is that these new believers have a compelling reason to challenge others to become Christians, because at the end of that short period of time, everyone who chooses to reject Christ will be separated from all that is good, gentle, loving and peaceful for all of eternity.
Here's the deal. Either Jesus Christ is God, or He's not. If someone teaches that He is not God, according to Christian teaching, and because of the law of non-contradiction, Jesus cannot simultaneously be God and "not God" in the same time and relationship. Since Judaism, Islam, and Christianity teach different things about Jesus, man's relationship to God and how it may be possible to reconcile to God, logically either all three beliefs are wrong, or one is right and the others cannot be right.
Christian tolerance teaches me to tolerate people's rights to choose whatever religious belief they want, even if they are wrong. Christian love teaches me to tell people who God is, and how to reconcile relationship with Him, because I want everyone to have the kind of relationship with God that I have.
Respectfully,
Anomaly
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?
I was really hoping that the game would be like GTA, where you have to say grace before stealing a car or something, but here's the screen shots for it:
m
http://www.leftbehindgames.com/pages/the_games.ht
It kinda looks like a updated version of Syndicate Wars, I wonder if converting people works like the persuasion gun in SW.
I've actually heard from a few friends of mine that tested the game that it actually is fun. Yes, I know it's hard to believe but according to them, even though it's a Christian-themed game, it actually is entertaining. Just as long as it provides the player with amusement and entertainment, I really don't mind what kind of game it is.
Also, many stores have sold games like Doom, Duke Nukem, and Grand Theft Auto... so why wouldn't they be allowed to sell a Christian-themed game? Sounds like people might be scared of a little theistic gameplay more-so than unwanted sex scenes and mass amounts of gore.
Does the phrase "the Crusades" ring any bells here?
How about the cultural damage done to such peoples as the Celts, Native Americans, and Southeast Asians, among many others?
What's their problem with this game, evangelism, murder, or the propogation of fabricated cultural stereotypes?
Because the game was about christians first off and muslims aren't really christians now are they? Your other point was about Christians being a peacefull people, well I've met a number of muslims that are peaceful and don't kill, and I've seem alot of wacked out Christians. Christians are peacefull yet Bush who claims to be one is fighting a war in Iraq? Have you read history books and learned about the Crusades? There are no peacful religions besides the people who do nothing. When converting a group of people you are going to face adversity, if you are trying to attack someones current beliefs, and this runs thick just as much in both religions. You also generalize Muslims as terrorists, but did you know that their are different groups of Muslims in the world Muslim meaning the "one who submits (to God)" of course theres more too it then that, but you have to understand that these people do have a simular faith. The Qur'an is kind of like the book of latter day saints it follows the bible and then muhammad added to that because according to his followers he was a profit. Muhammad didn't even hate Judaism and Christianity according to wiki he "said that he had been sent by God in order to complete and perfect those teachings."
There is alot more, Muhammed did fight a war, but I believe it was initially started because Christians in Mecca were afraid of the growing Islam religion(which is what I think you were getting at instead of Muslim) and persecuted the Islamic people. Muhammad fought back and won. Also remember that the Qur'an like most of the other books of the Bible was written after the death of Muhammad. Who knows what really happend, as the people who write history make history. But my point is, that you seem to be judging the Islamic religion based on your own hatered, and I would not doubt that you would wish them dead just as much as some Islamic extreamists(which Christians have enough of) bomb, kill, and hate. Next time you generalize like that think about how a Christian society(can't tell me Bush hasn't thrown god into the mix a few times) can go and start a war and kill thousands of people and be considered peaceful people? Most are but there is the generalization again. It goes both ways, so be prejudice towards violance but don't go around saying that because hes from the middle east and has a weird name he wants to kill you. Because there are alot of people from America that probably want to kill him.
Sorry if its one big rant with bad grammer you can mod me down but I just needed to get that off my chest. Oh and I know my spelling sucks, but at least I'm getting help.
After all, Christianity is the religion of peace.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Damn, I heard they had a pretty good two-for-one offer, Left Behind: Eternal Forces and Nigger Hunt for $29.95.
Most people who play these type of games, like GTA, Doom, SOCOM, etc., know that it's just a game. They don't believe what is happening on the screen.
These people playing this game, reading the 'Left Behind' books, & watching the crappy movies, truly believe in the Rapture and what they are doing on screen is "right". That's what makes this a little more scary.
If anyone needs me, I'll be in the Angry Dome.
Cool. Can the good guys cruise for male prostitutes and score meth?
an ill wind that blows no good
"It's OK to be a bigot if you don't walk around all day claiming NOT to be one (like Christians)"
Just like it's ok to walk around killing people as long as you don't claim to be a pacifict. (sarcasm)
Moral relativism at it's most bankrupt.
I really think the war on terror should be re-focused. We hould have a "war on fundamentalism". Christian Fundamentalists are often just as bigotted as Fundamentalist Muslims. The only thing that keeps the CF's from killing is a legal structure setup by moderates. If the rule of law were relaxed in the Bible belt you can bet there would be Muslim hunting season. Neither side is willing to consider any middle ground -- they both should be exterminated.
It's interesting the attitude Slashdotters take on various video games. In every other case, video games don't have an effect on children, but in this case the game is influencing hatred and intolerance. GTA includes violence towards prostitutes and innocent bystanders, but that couldn't possibly have an effect on children... It's the parents responsibility right? Why is this game different? By the way, I am a fundamentalist Christian. I find both the book series and the game to be offensive, but is it really _worse_ than GTA or Bully or any of the other potentially offensive games that have come out? Is it really better to depict people being killed for no reason whatsoever than to depict them being killed for having some philosophical or theological difference from the protagonist?
I can't recommend Slacktivist highly enough. He's a true evangelical associated with a seminary and has been writing "Left Behind Fridays" dissecting the first book for over a year. (He also discusses many other things.)
For those who have only seen screeching TV evangelicals, Fred ("Slacktivist") is an old school one. As he has repeatedly said, he reaches out through hospitality. Here, I see you are tired. Let me offer you a chair. Are you hungry, let me check my kitchen. You're free to ask him how he can be so pleasant and helpful and he'll tell you about Christ. You're equally free to enjoy his hospitality and then move on.
It should go without saying that he's appalled by this game.
P.S., I'm now more Buddhist than anything else, but I wouldn't hesitate to go to a weekly sermon by him. I rarely come away from his blog without fresh insights.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
I have no problem with them treating prayer as a good thing. I have a problem with them treating everyone that isn't like them as less than human. I also have a problem with them saying that its ok to kill as long as you pray afterwards. For the record, I am not a big fan of FPS or games like GTA where killing is also just treated as a matter of course.
Clones are people two.
Imagine a game where kids got to play white police officers and Ku Klux Klan members during the 1950's, and their mission was to use violence to get black people to stop trying to sit at the front of the bus or use white-only public restrooms. Would a game like that have ever made it to the shelves in the first place? Why tolerate this then? Having been someone who has suffered quite a bit from the fact that my own personal beliefs differ from those prevailing in my local culture, I submit that people have no more control over what they believe with respect to religious ideas than they do over the color of their skin. Why is is okay to advocate killing people because they were born with a tendency to believe differently than the majority, while it is not okay to advocate killing people because they were born with a race that is different than the majority?
The Bible says you are supposed to murder homosexuals and misbehaved children. (This is just getting started, by the way. I am in too much a hurry to find references where God commands the murder those who worship other gods or those work on the Sabbath.) Do not say you actually do what the Bible states you should do because I am sure you are far too moral to even contemplate enacting its numerous violent precepts.
On a lighter note, some have written up ideas on how to make the Left Behind games more violent, based on the contents of the Bible. Enjoy!
Why bother.
To summarize briefly, the crusades were attempts by "Christians" in the 10th through 12th centuries A.D. to reclaim land in the Middle East that had been conquered by Muslims / Arabs. The crusades were brutal and evil. Many people were forced to "convert" to Christianity. If they refused, they were put to death. This is blatantly unbiblical...and perhaps that is the best summary of the issue. The idea of conquering a land through war and violence in the Name of Christ is completely unbiblical. The crusades may have been done by so-called Christians...but many of the actions that took place in the crusades were completely antithetical to everything the Christian faith should stand for.
Most of the people involved in the crusades were not truly Christians...even though they claimed to be. The Name of Christ was abused, misused, and blasphemed by the actions of many of the crusaders. The crusades took place from approximately 1095 to 1230 A.D. That was between 775 and 910 years ago. Should the unbiblical and un-Christ-like actions of supposed Christians 1000 years ago still be held against Christians today? I don't think so.
If you did any kind of study on the subject you would know this. Yet you still throw out this crap.
Rod: "Convert the heathen!" Bart: "Got 'em!" Tod: "No, you just winged him and made him a Unitarian."
Hard Hat Area: Sig Construction Zone
This game was mentioned on Penny Arcade a while back...
Congratulation, you sir are a good person at heart.
Gods love is for everyone.
peace be with you
...get in the car!
You'll have to buy the expansion pack to add all the minority groups you'd want to show who's who. Until then, you'll have to sate your bloodlust with the major groups.
He already has responded
"Thompson has also criticized a Christian video game based on the Left Behind series. In Left Behind: Eternal Forces, players participate in "battles raging in the streets of New York," according to the game's fact sheet. They engage in "physical and spiritual warfare: using the power of prayer to strengthen your troops in combat and wield modern military weaponry throughout the game world." Thompson claims that the makers of the game are sacrificing their values. He said, "Because of the Christian context, somehow it's OK? It's not OK. The context is irrelevant. It's a mass-killing game." Left Behind author Tim LaHaye disagrees, saying "Rather than forbid young people from viewing their favorite pastime, I prefer to give them something that's positive." The dispute over the game has caused Thompson to sever ties with Tyndale House, which publishes both the Left Behind books and Thompson's book, Out of Harm's Way. Thompson has not seen the game, which he says has "personally broken my heart," but claims, "I don't have to meet Abraham Lincoln to know that he was the 16th president of the United States.""
Technoli
I agree. I'm perfectly cool with letting the Christians kill Muslims in their video game, as long as they don't complain about me beating hookers in mine.
If you're still having questions about this whole "Freedom of Speech" thing, and you're looking for extremists to side with, give Jack Thompson a call. I'm sure he can find something in this game to get offended about. Or call DHS.
You want to exterminate people because you think they want to exterminate other people. Interesting. In reality your just a bigot yourself.
to participate?
Think about it - in Grand Theft Auto, you routinely kill innocent people and police officers, beat women, commit various crimes, and do terrible things that all (well, most of us) would never do in real life for fun. Yet this game receives the greatest protection from the Slashdot community because, after all, what we do in a violent video game doesn't define what we do in real life, right?
Along comes this "Christian" game (as a Christian myself - well, Mormon, but I most certainly consider myself Chrisitian and couldn't care less what the Southern Baptists, et. al. believe - I would never consider purchasing this trash) and suddenly it's a terrible sign of what's wrong with the country, the people, etc.
I say let Wal-Mart sell the 3 copies of this game they'll sell and let the publisher of the game take a bath on it. It looks like total crap, it's offensive, but if we're going to protect other violent video games filled with scenarious we'd never condone in real life, then why not this one?
I don't want anyone, telling me what kind of video game I can play, no matter how distasteful it is. If you don't like it don't buy it. Why do people feel they can thrust their moral beliefs on me? Put an ESRB rating of adult on it and kiss my $$. They tell me how video games are corrupting my mind, well too bad, it's my mind to corrupt. I don't tell anyone to ban pudding, because it's making them fat, if they want to be fat, it's their body, so be it. The problem doesn't lie in what's available to corrupt me, their has always been things to corrupt people, the problem lie's in people's inability to discriminate between what's right and wrong, or the will to resist.
Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit!
No, by unfortunately I mean its unfortunate that preaching hatred and bigotry is protected. Antisemitism, racism, sexism and religious hatred (and I mean true versions of these, not just saying that what Israel is doing is wrong, but saying that Jews are the root of all problems) are wrong. I find it unfortunate to have to protect oppressiveness like this in order to protect my right to speak and act freely.
Clones are people two.
"cast. A bunch of cowards who will slit your throat if you don't convert to their religious beliefs." Kindof like the crusades you mean? Or abortion clinic bombers? There are nutjobs from every religion, and all the Muslims I know are caring people just like the majority of non-Muslims I know.
Everyone here is jumping on the misleading article concerning this game. The fact is that killing is strongly discouraged in this game. Now, I am not completely supporting it (there are some pretty hokey aspects in my opinion), but we need to get the facts straight here. This game is not like most RTS games out there. You are actually penalized for killing the opponent's people because the goal is to convert everyone.
Each unit in the game has a "spirit" score that determines which side they are on. If they have a spirit score above 60, they are a Christian and therefore on your side. If their spirit score is below 40, they are the enemy and will try to kill or subvert you. Anyone between 60 and 40 is neutral and can be converted. If any of your units kills another unit, they lose spirit points. Only through prayer and inspirational music (who defines inspirational anyway, but I digress...) and good sermons can you increase the spirit points. The whole system is designed to discourage combat, but it realizes that in any conflict, sometimes you don't have much of a choice. If someone comes at you with a gun, you either die or your fight back to protect yourself. This is where the combat comes in. This is not a game of convert-or-die. Also, the anti-christ team can "win", but this means that all of the units left in the game are going to hell (according to the game's rules) -- so in essence it is a loss.
As far as the Crusades, Inquisition, etc., if you actually look at what transpired there, it had very little to do with true Christianity. None of the acts carried out in the name of Christ were actually in keeping with his teachings. Many causes are subverted by those who take matters into their own hands. Sometimes it is because they are too zealous. Sometimes it is because they can use the system to serve their own purposes. Just because terrible things have been done in the name of Christ does not mean that Christianity is in itself evil. All of the Christians I know (including myself) abhor what happened in the Crusades. The Crusaders didn't just kill non-believers when they sacked Jerusalem. They killed everyone: Muslims, Jews, and Christians. It was an act of barbarous and hideous evil that sickens me every time I think about it.
The problem was not Christianity, but the tightly held monopoly of the Church of Rome that kept its people in the dark about the truths of scripture while allowing corrupt people to wield incredible power. The crusaders were told that they would be "forgiven of all sins" if they went on the crusade, and in their ignorance, they did not know that Jesus gave forgiveness freely for sins confessed (you don't even need a priest). Thus the religion was subverted and misused to the profit of greedy men. As I said, it had very little to do with the religion of Christianity and everything to do with the corruption of man.
I believe in de-evolution. God made the world perfect, man fell, and its been going downhill ever since!
Every Christian I know (I'm not Christian but my mother is a pastor), is all for war of any kind. They hide behind some false sense of superiority because they are "righteous". They spout out phrases like "Thou shalt not kill" but send their children to war to murder because someone disagrees with them. They murdered entire populations of indigenous people (Native Americans for ex.) because they could not understand their silly religion. Christians == Murderers in my eyes so I see a game where Christians gun down non-believers as truth. I am not speaking about all Christians. There are a few that believe the Bible is just a message and is not to be taken literally. But the majority are all hypocritical murderers. As my mother told me along time ago, "It's ok not to believe in the bible. Just believe in the message." And that message is basically "Love and treat each other as you wish to be loved and treated."
Freedom is a state of mind. A mind is a state of being. Stay the fuck out of my mind and my being. - Corporate Avenger
I personally think the game is bullshit, but 'muslim sounding names'??? There are hundreds of thousands of Christians with 'muslim sounding names'. They live in places like Bethlehem, Jerusalem, Basra, Bagdad, Detroit, New York,.... Those of you old enough may remember Danny Thomas or his daughter Marlo. Danny (stage name) was born Amos Alphonsus Muzyad Yakhoob. Certainly a 'muslim sounding name' (except maybe the 'Alphonsus'). I'd class the 'Thomas' family - whatever they call themselves - as good, honorable Christians who have contributed to the good of the world. Including St. Jude's Hospital, one of the most famous institutions helping anyone who need it. BTW, I'm Jewish. Let's not confuse Christianity with jingostic, not-my-color/ethnic/ bigotry. I have actually met a couple of people (who claim to be christians) in my life (55+) that actually seem to live up to the ideals of the various versions. Not many, but some.
If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now, when?
Sorry, dude, but there's no such thing as a "satanist". "Satan" is a Christian construct. All Satanists are actually dumber-than-average Christians who like to wear black.
I remember reading about this game when it was in the making... and I told my girlfriend about it and she wanted a copy, not because shes christian, but because you could play on the side of the anti-christ and KILL christians. Im surprised that people assume this is an 'acceptable' game for the family because of its religious nature, like good pious people never raped tortured and murdered innocents. This game is definitely a mature one, if Jack Thompson doesn't want to lose face about his tirade against violent videogames, he should be against this one as well.
here...
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2 006/12/12/MNG8TMU1KQ1.DTL
http://www.walmart.com/cservice/cu_commentsonline
Here's what I sent to them.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/
So you haven't received any complaints about this game?
Well here's one. I find this totally offensive. For a company with such a high profile to be peddling crap like this and feeding the fires of racial and religious intolerance is totally unacceptable and completely reprehensible.
You have to be out of your minds to think this is a good way to make money. You can be sure you're never going to see a single dollar from my wallet not for this product or any other that you might choose to sell from here on. I'm sure there's thousands more reading this article and your response to it that are reacting the same way.
Perhaps you can buy the rights to sell dvds of the OJ interview "if i did it" and package it with this game as the ultimate bad taste christmas gift set.
My 8 yr old neighbor boy became concerned about the disappearance of the believers in the opening movie. He asked Jesus into his heart to be his Lord and Savior when he saw that people were disappearing and going to Heaven. He did not want to miss out on that event which may happen any day.
Throw the Christians to the lions. Fa la la la, la la la la.
OK, who else has some words to add?
Friends don't let friends line-dance.
That's pretty much a given among secular scholars, along with the JEDHP theory of Biblical authorship. Those with something else to prove than the truth, however, tend to disagree with both speculations.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
Agnosts and Atheists are the main victims when religions clash. Is that represented in the game as well ?
I would buy a game where every religion is the ennemy of peace and progress.
you play an atheist who lost his family to religious zealots and they all died for no reason whatsoever except to a false god, then you have to destroy every critical religious centers in every country starting with the vatican, then mosquee then whatever places judaism needs to be hit. A purging of all evil that prevents people to interact normally with each other
And just so racism is not implied, you were born from a half-native-americain/italian/arab father with an africain/jewish/pakistanese mother that was born in japan and raised by wolves. Did a forget someone?
that sounds pretty stupid no? remove religions= remove stupidity
Since when was there any mention of "treating everyone that isn't like them as less than human"? They are treating them as enemies -- I hardly think you'll claim that by treating the British as enemies during the Revolution that we treated them as less than human. Also, the game doesn't say that "it's ok to kill as long as you pray afterwards" -- merely that praying can help redeem you for sins (which, the Bible will tell you that also.....hell I'm fairly certain they have similar things in the Koran too).
I think you need to realize that games aren't (generally) supposed to reflect real life -- it's just a game. No one is saying "go do this in real life". Besides, think of how many killings are probably avoided because of killing in video games -- you get out stress by shooting people / things in a game instead of acting out your violent desires against a real person who's been begging for an ass kicking.
If you really want to swallow that claptrap I'd go for Hal Lindsay's Late Great Planet Earth ahead of the hacktastic writing of LaHaye and Jenkins.
And the whole pre-tribulation thing with Christianity - that's speculation too. You might be in the same world of shit as the rest of us even if your god's non-fiction. Which, given the evidence thus far, seems like a slim and none chance.
P.s. since the generation that sees the rebirth of Israel is the last one to walk the earth, do we get rid of the Christians soon? Israel's been back since 1948.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
christians really will kill you if you don't convert! if you visit las vegas you will be captured and murdered by terrorists! you really can get an insane stunt bonus for jumping a car off the roof of a parking garage! aliens really will come down to earth and conquer us and it's up to duke nukem/master chief/samus aran to save us! that's it! i'm moving to norway!
sarcasm:
-noun
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
All of you except the buddists are sick individuals that use your beliefs as a reason to kill murder and rape.
While I agree partially with your sentiment, what about all the peaceful religious people? They don't get seen much, because the news chooses not to cover people sitting at home with their children hoping and praying that the rioters don't kill anybody. You're talking about the violent 1% (or 5%), and there are violent atheists as well.
I do, however, notice more and more how efficient religious power is as a tool to control people. I think that a massive reeducation about spirituality, Jesus, and the Bible are in order. Why I don't mention the Muslims is that a)I'm not a Muslim, so I'm not in a powerful position to reeducate, and b)dude, there are millions of Muslims in this country who, as a persecuted class, are more conscious, compassionate, and aware than your correlated Judeo-Christian.
Also, the Buddhist religion is also born out of a violent, sexist, oppressive time in history, and therefore contains much falsity. The reason why Christianity and Islam seem so primitive by comparison is because they are under scrutiny. Explain to me how the Buddhist governments (China, anyone?) are any better. Again, it occurs to me how religion is a freaking tool, not the problem, and the solution is education.
The government is constantly a detriment to people's freedom, spiritual growth, and personal creativity. Look at our (at least my) government's relationship with John Lennon (regardless of whether or not they killed him, which I wouldn't put past them). Look at their relationship to Osho. Look at their relationship with the Branch Davidians (Remember the Alamo, forget Waco--a true patriot!). And if you want to pretend that they killed the Branch Davidians because they were stockpiling weapons, I'll send you a videotape with the telephone conversations of Koresh begging the ATF to stop shooting at them and to please let the women and children out.
No such luck.
Please stop stalking me, bro.
No... you're included. Progressive Christianity would never condemn a person simply because they chose to "lie with an animal".
Seriously...
OMG will people STOP attacking Christianity already?? Especially around Christmas. If you people don't like a game where Christians kill or convert non-christians then just DONT BUY IT AND DONT PLAY IT. Don't ask Wal-Mart to stop selling it. NO I refuse to let this country because a communist nation! This is just like that rabid Rabbi that told Seattle Int'l airport to put up some Jewish symbol or he would sue... and they ended up taking down all their Christmas trees... but at least they decided to put them back up the next day LOL. Stupid Rabbi. I just wish people would let us Christians go about our business and stop bothering us.
People are you forgetting that Jesus would clearly condone this game. In the Gospel according to Schwarzenegger it clearly says: "And Jesus walked to the temple mount with his flock to speak with all that prayed there. "Come to me and worship unto the lord and you shall be spaired" Only two of the misguided saw the truth within the words of our lord, and took his robe as Jesus left the mount. Before leaving Jesus turned to the 12 of his flock and said "Bring forth the judgment of my father to the non-believers". Mathew and Mark blocked the door of the temple while the rest opened fire upon the crowed of fallen faith. For two stones Jesus posse brought forth upon the crowed, hot firry wrath, leaving no soul alive. " - Schwarzenegger 6:24
You preach tolerance while showing you have none. You're no different than a Christian who hides behind the bible to justify their own bigotry or the racist who points to the minority of blacks who commit crime to justify denigrating all blacks.
I do not think that I like the concept of Left Behind's new game. But I think their company name speaks volumes, especially from a "Mission Statement", "point of view?" The new, and old testament are ripe with First Person type game plots. A personal favorite is the old testament story of Jacob vs. Laban. One could play the kid crazy in love, or the father trying to rid the kid who just does not get it. Either view point is a humerus "Gripping White Knuckle" event; But I also think that due to its content, children should not read the story, and should not be allowed to ask to many plot related questions.
"Want to know the rest; buy the rights." - OMC
As tasteless as this game is, maybe it will serve a good purpose after all: trivialization of fundamentalist Christianity and all fundamentalist organized religion in general. There, I said it! If all the "Westboro Baptist" style fundies out there think this game is a great idea, then by all means, let them play. All of the worlds major "we are right, you are wrong, convert or suffer forever" religions should be playable options in the game. The subversive underlying message is that all religions are just games. Think of it: Millions of people being gradually desensitized to the religious dogma that otherwise indoctrinates them into thinking it worthwhile and "righteous" to justify hate and spill blood over fairy tales.
I wonder what liberal cooked this one up.
SLashdot isn't a group mind. SOme epople will state their opinion in one subject, but not another.
If a single user says thuis game should be pulled, but then later says 'GTA:Rancho Cucamunga' should not be pulled, then That Person is a hypocrite, not all of slashdot.
It could also mean that person has changed they way they think on the subject as well.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Just in case the end-boss is David Blaine and he animates a giant stone Abraham Lincoln, the way to beat him is to build a giant stone John Wilkes Booth.
Even as a Discordian, I cannot wrap my head around the chaos that would ensue if someone made a mass-marketed game based around the Islamic end times. What with the battle with the Jews and all. Yipes!
Bush: He's Liberal in all the wrong ways.
What's really too bad is that they are capitalizing on the "Left Behind" series, which is IMO a very entertaining and thought-provoking series that is totally unlike this game. I wonder if they could be sued for copyright infringement because of the name?
Prov 9:8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
If this is true to the Left Behind novels, you're going to have a lot of work to do. These novels portray current days as the end times, and describe the book of revelation in a current events manner.
You'll have to rewrite revelation where the other team wins, then do all the coding to make that happen in the game.
Man, you really need that seminar!
I'm a conservative Christian. By this I mean I oppose the sanctioning of homosexual behaviors or lifestyle. I am in favor of the death penalty. I am pro-life and pro-choice (I oppose abortion except in cases where there was no real choice, like cases of rape, incest, or to save the life of the mother).
That said, this game is stupid and should also be opposed. Who says that *real* conservative Christians would ever support this? Neither the bible, nor any Christian church I have ever visited supported the concept of Christianization by force! The crusades were hundreds of years ago, lets all move on now...
Yes, I know there are islands of civilisation on the coasts...
Sorry, but that's a really annoying, oft-repeated stereotype. Do you mean to say that Norfolk, VA is more civilized than Chicago? Care to compare Bridgeport, CT to Minneapolis? There are islands, small and large, all over the country. Did you notice the blue states in the upper Midwest in 2004?
I know what you're thinking... Christians are supposed to turn the other cheek and love their enemy... BUT, in this game, Christians are supposed to be killing non-christians who are ATTACKING THEM. It is okay for a Christian to kill someone who is trying to kill him/her. Forgiveness doesn't mean you should be totally defenseless! I condone this game!
A progressive Christian is someone who actually does what the Bible says to do:
/. suddenly lose all ability to think logically when the subject of religion comes up.
Okay, let's see how well you do.
Love one's neighbor more than one's self
You are mis-quoting scripture and mis-quoting Christ. To wit:
"love your neighbor as yourself" (Lev 19:18)
"love your neighbor as yourself" (Mat 19:19)
"love your neighbor as yourself" (Mat 22:39)
"love your neighbor as yourself" (Mark 12:31)
"love your neighbor as yourself" (Mark 12:33)
"love your neighbor as yourself" (Luke 10:27)
"love your neighbor as yourself" (Rom 13:9)
"love your neighbor as yourself" (Gal 5:14)
"love your neighbor as yourself" (James 2:8)
Nowhere does scripture or Jesus say "love your neighbor more than one's self" and thus imply the self-deprecation and self-denigration that is popular in "progressive" thought. Just because fundamentalist Christians rewrite scripture to bash gays and women does NOT mean you have the right to rewrite scripture to match your own politics.
It's pretty much that simple.
Is it really pretty much that simple? I beg to differ. Take this mandate from Christ, for example:
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple." Lk 14:26, words of Christ.
Do you "do what the Bible says to do", as, by definition, a "progressive" Christian should, in regards to what Jesus said in Lk 14:26? Now here is where we will see the "progressive" Christian start to mimic the fundamentalist Christian in another nasty way by playing the game of "That's what it says, but that's not what it means!"
In short, a "progressive" Christian is a "progressive" with Christian trappings. Likewise, a fundamentalist Christian is a conservative with Christian trappings. Your claims about "doing what the Bible says" are just bunk because the Bible cannot be used as a decent moral guide due to its being both immoral and nonsensical. As for nonsense, consider what was revelaled by the scripture that I quoted in this very post. Jesus said that all the law and the prophets hang on "love your neighbor as yourself", yet he also indicated that you can't be his disciple unless you hate your own life. Hence, you are to love your neighbor as you love yourself, which, since you have to hate your own life, means you don't love your neighbor at all!
I know, I know. "That's what it says, but that's not what it means!" I can only shake my head when normally very intelligent and critical people on
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
Now, no need to experience this in a virtual world, we have already all of this in the real world.
I define Christian science fiction as using current scientific explanations for Biblical events and prophecies. The "Left Behind" series is the premier example of this genre. C.S. Lewis wrote a fair amount of this too. I'd say the Narnia series is not quite there, though the lion has a resurrection. All these convolution explanations of Biblical miracles you read around Christmas and Easter time are borderline too.
Christians = 1, Fundamentalists = 0
I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
...or Fundamentalist Christians. You know, those that most people around here love to hate? Interesting that the word Fundamentalist would be dropped and Progressive used instead. Christianity has never been about killing - that doesn't quite fit in with Love God and Love One's Neighbor - the two greatest commandments. It's not Christ that goes and makes people do stuff like the Crusades - it's the flawed human nature and politics. For instance, Christians didn't overtake and conquer Rome - they were as surprised at the politically motivated turn-around of policy as anyone else. This game is truly sad. Christians are not above anyone, have no right to judge anyone or curse anyone, but by their true nature as intended by Christ, Christians are effectively servants to all. It's the pride of politics that causes the problems we've seen and currently see. And it's the mistaken perceptions created by this flawed outlook that has created the background that made this game possible. It is a slap in the face of all Christians. Sure, it's Just A Game - but must violent games are fairly generic. Bad guys vs Good guys. This one takes a step into specifics and fuels a perception of Christianity that is both erroneous, harmful and sad. While a Christian bears the message of Christ - he/she is merely the messenger - the recipient of that message is free to take it or leave it and the Christian should never think he/she must force the person to believe - that's not how faith works. A Christian would just as soon feed, house and cloth a down and out Muslim no strings attached than cause any harm to him or her. Christians are instructed to love our enemies! How does that fit in with this game? Governments go to war, but a Christian's purpose is peace and love - something the 60's would have been proud of. :) A violent game based on Christianity - or any religion for that matter - is just bad taste and taking things too far and the game should indeed be canned. Gamers have as much responsibility as anyone on taste and they should know better than this and this truly is a big disappointment.
Sounds fun! I'll see if I can get it at WM, or at least torrent it =P
As for the bad-guys-can't-win part, well, we'll have to do like Ender did.. heh
"Luck is my middle name," said Rincewind, indistinctly. "Mind you, my first name is Bad." -- Terry Pratchett
The game is just stupid. It's a company profiting from the name of a book to make money making yet another shooter. Nothing else. Oh - for the record, I consider myself a pretty conservative Christian, with a rather literal belief in the Bible, and still manage to try to be a decent person, to everyone. I'm really unsure where the public/political 'conservative' Christian has ended up with their beliefs and their standards.
-- I really need to bleed off some of this
They explain it very well in the promotional video on their site. No way should this game be yanked from Wal-Mart, as the "liberal" and the "progressive" would have it. I'm going out right now to Wal-Mart and buying my copy!
Unfortunately, creating this game is Constitutionally protected free speech
No, this is the fortunate part.
and selling it is completely up to Wal-Mart and other retailers.
True. But Wal-Mart has a record of not selling items that might lead to... how to phrase it... moral outrage?(*) Especially since this game is presenting itself as "Christian," and thus if it was at Wal-Mart some oblivious parents might buy it for their children, assuming it to be a very different game than it actually is.
A lot of people get mixed up about "free speech" and "free market" on this score: Free speech means you are allowed to say whatever you want. Free market means that society can make a deliberate choice to ignore what you say. Moral outrage and disgust are market forces (just ask Tom Cruise how MI3 did :P), whether you like it or not, and market forces restricting where something can be sold do not limit free speech.
For example: Wal-Mart does not sell pornography. If they chose to, it would be their right, but a lot of people who shop there would probably be offended by it and would shop there less -- moral outrage as a market force. Since there is still a sizable part of the population that is interested in buying pornography, other retailers handle the demand for such things, and free speech is not impinged upon.
All of which is just to say, there's nothing wrong with asking Wal-Mart not to sell this game. (Heck, even in GTA the game isn't pretending that killing hookers is the Good Christian Thing To Do. The whole appeal of something like GTA is that this isn't how you behave, or ever should behave, in real life.)
(*) (Meaning the items themselves don't cause moral outrage. It's fine if their production methods cause moral outrage.)
I am the man with no sig!
"I find your lack of faith disturb-ding-ding-ding..." When I was a kid, a Sunday school teacher asked us to imagine our souls as the cheez-it crackers in front of us. She went on to make some sort of nonsensical metaphor out of it, but to this day, I imagine that if souls exist, they look like cheez-it crackers. I suppose that God/Satan merely have a mad case of the munchies.
Latvians have a pretty similar one too Dievturba, check it out on Wikipedia. Its my favorite one this week!
Folk in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster wouldn't have much to argue about either, bless his noodley appendages.
Even the fiercest Discordians and Slackers wouldn't kill you for those beliefs, though they might feel tempted to murder you for wearing too loud a shirt in a built up area.
On the other hand for having such radical ideas, throughout history the Christian Church would have sought you out and killed you to protect its meme.
Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
I've heard Ned Flanders has the most devastating powers of this game...
He's done everything the Bible says - even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!
Some of the character classes that are available in the game:
Televangelist: You get XP for getting folks to send in their social security benefits to "buy Bibles for Africans". Character starts with a broadcast license and a Makeup Kit +3
Street Corner Lunatic: You get XP based on how fast people scurry past to avoid you. Character starts off with a Sandwich Board of Hysteria and 50 Pamphlets of Harassment.
Perverted Priest: Each boy you molest gains you XP. Innate abilities include Charm Children and Lie To Parish.
Sanctimonious Believer: Gets XP for passing judgment on others. You lose XP if people point out your own failings. Character starts off with a Bible of Convenience +3.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
Liberals are again calling for (self) censorship.
Such open minds.
Reminds me of Algore and his bitch.
the author of a wired magazine article on the game makes a very good point. the game is no where near as graphic as the description given in the book of Revelation and other fundamentalist sources for the endtime frenzy. when the author contacted the game makers about this they replied that while the bible was more graphic they didnt want to make the game too violent and thereby inappropriate for children so...its okay to believe this stuff literally is going to happen to people, but its not something you want your children to watch...just what kind of god are these people worshipping? heres the link: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,72071-0.html
Didn't you get the memo? Well, just in case, here it is:
Agenda:
1. Shopping
2. Gifts for cousins
3. Personal Time
4. Annihilation of the not-we
Thanks!
I think you should think about that.
The word "Apostle", from the Greek apostello "to send forth", "to dispatch", has etymologically a very general sense. Apostolos (Apostle) means one who is sent forth, dispatched--in other words, who is entrusted with a mission, rather, a foreign mission. It has, however, a stronger sense than the word messenger, and means as much as a delegate. In the classical writers the word is not frequent. In the Greek version of the Old Testament it occurs once, in III Kings, xiv, 6 (cf. ibid., xii, 24). In the New Testament, on the contrary. it occurs, according to Bruder's Concordance, about eighty times, and denotes often not all the disciples of the Lord, but some of them specially called. It is obvious that our Lord, who spoke an Aramaic dialect, gave to some of his disciples an Aramaic title, the Greek equivalent of which was "Apostle". It seems to us that there is no reasonable doubt about the Aramaic word being seliah, by which also the later Jews, and probably already the Jews before Christ, denoted "those who were despatched from the mother city by the rulers of the race on any foreign mission, especially such as were charged with collecting the tribute paid to the temple service" (Lightfoot, "Galatians", London, 1896, p. 93). The word apostle would be an exact rendering of the root of the word seliah,= apostello.
It is at once evident that in a Christian sense, everyone who had received a mission from God, or Christ, to man could be called "Apostle". In fact, however, it was reserved to those of the disciples who received this title from Christ. At the same time, like other honourable titles, it was occasionally applied to those who in some way realized the fundamental idea of the name. The word also has various meanings.
* The name Apostle denotes principally one of the twelve disciples who, on a solemn occasion, were called by Christ to a special mission. In the Gospels, however, those disciples are often designated by the expressions of mathetai (the disciples) or dodeka (the Twelve) and, after the treason and death of Judas, even of hendeka (the Eleven). In the Synoptics the name Apostle occurs but seldom with this meaning; only once in Matthew and Mark. But in other books of the New Testament, chiefly in the Epistles of St. Paul and in the Acts, this use of the word is current. Saul of Tarsus, being miraculously converted, and called to preach the Gospel to the heathens, claimed with much insistency this title and its rights.
* In the Epistle to the Hebrews (iii, 1) the name is applied even to Christ, in the original meaning of a delegate sent from God to preach revealed truth to the world.
* The word Apostle has also in the New Testament a larger meaning, and denotes some inferior disciples who, under the direction of the Apostles, preached the Gospel, or contributed to its diffusion; thus Barnabas (Acts 14:4, 14), probably Andronicus and Junias (Romans 16:7), Epaphroditus (Phil., ii, 25), two unknown Christians who were delegated for the collection in Corinth (2 Corinthians 7:23). We know not why the honourable name of Apostle is not given to such illustrious missionaries as Timothy, Titus, and others who would equally merit it.
As the island of our knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance.
that if two people both lead the same 'good' life, one is a theist and one an atheist - the atheist is the better person.
One could argue that a believer does the right thing due to either the threat of a smiting, or a reward in heaven. An atheist doing the same act is performing a truly altruistic act, knowing he could either have got away with the alternative and will receive nothing in return.
As far as I can tell, the word translated "slaves" in some translations of the Torah and "servants" in others is the closest Biblical Hebrew word to what Modern English calls "employees".
The problem is that so many people can ignore these mistranslations. People believe this book with all of their being. I must assume that most of them have never read it. People talk about muslim suicide bombers, but there are plenty of Christian terrorists as well. People bombing abortion clinics for example.
die444die
I too am impressed with his resolve and the conviction he has to his principles.
Every time I read his opinion on a game, he always notes that he does not have first-hand experience with it.
Yes, even now.
In this day and age of uncertainty, he always manages to stay true to his character. I salute you, sir!
Throughout history, people have been using various religious faiths to justify whatever they want to do, because they can leverage the people's support for the faith to gain support for their own cause. In the case of Christianity, people have used the guise of converting people to Christianity as a justification for slavery and execution of enemies. They can justify making the people slaves because they can claim this is necessary to convert them to Christianity and save them. They can justify the execution of people by saying they are eliminating sin from the world. It doesn't matter if they have no basis in true Christianity. The practice is done by fake members of all faiths, not just fake Christians. This game probably disturbs real Christians because it makes them look bad. However, the game sounds like it is historically accurate. Accurate, not as a portrayal of true Christianity, but as a portrayal of the abuse of Christianity by early propagandists.
How would the Christians feel if us non-Christians put out a "War on Christmas" video game where Christians were hunted down and Trees, Lights, and presents destroyed for additional points?
But is there a God Mode?
Reviews with a twist! http://www.sardonicbastard.com
Although media reports vary, Christianity isn't a convert-or-kill kind of religion; in fact killing is only allow in the protection of the innocent. And this game sounds a lot like a virtual crusade.
:(
If someone wanted to make a *Muslim* game like this, sure- the Koran actually suggests that if non-Muslims won't convert and become slaves, they're to be killed.
Something odd happened at Medina; after Medina Muhommad became very violent, but I'm not aware that anyone knows what happened. Anyway, that's how you snag one religion, and modify it into a killing machine.
--- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov
Read Deuteronomy 13 and then mod parent up.
die444die
Just going off of the Wikipedia entries, the total deaths attributable to their respective regimes are the matter of much debate. Going only off of the official records from the times, Stalin's regime was directly responsible for about 3 million deaths. But another 6 or 8 million died in the famine in Ukraine (more a result of collectivism than the hand of God). But all that is fuzzy- the range of estimates anywhere from the official 3 million up to 60 million. The account for Mao is even fuzzier- it doesn't appear to be possible to say anything more definitive than "tens of millions". Whether they were any better or worse than Theocratic regimes doesn't interest me much, though. The fact is that they were all butchers.
Sig cannot be found.
http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3560086/Left.Behind.Et ernal.Forces-RELOADED
so some christians like this game, and feel good about murder which is great, and the corporation that makes the game is making money, sending free discs out through churchgroups and such as well, to reach a larger demographic with thier spyware.
5
more info about the ad placement here:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/6/21/113545/73
to me religion is just a business like any other and this is just further proof.
It isn't bigotry to point out that blind faith is not wisdom, or is it bigotry to point out that blind faith appeals to the stupid and ignorant, nor is it bigotry to point out that blind faith is conducive to pograms. There is not rational basis for belief in the Christian faith, and it's okay to mock that; it certainly is a position of power comfortable enough to withstand mockery. It is merely whining to cry bigot when people express their exasperation at the hypocrisy and dominance of a religion that is used so often in our contemporary culture to justify intolerance, up to and including the bombings of abortion clinics, hateful speech at funerals--and not at all least sanctimonious and ill-informed blather about the inability of nonbelievers to have morals, ethics, or a happy life without dragging along Christianity's tired old sack of crap. I'm with Desmond Morris and others who think it's high time we nonbelievers start holding your sanctimonious, arrogant, believing feet to the fire. If you're so goody-goody, then quit running around hurting people--or stop those who are. As your good book says, tend to that log in your eye, clean up your own house before you come messing about mine. I'm fed, we're fed up. If you don't like it, go pray for me. Or get bent. Whichever you prefer.
Lol, I never get tired of that one. What are you reading this for! I said [nt].
Klein bottle for rent - inquire within.
Finally! A game Jack Thompson can enjoy!!!! Actually, I think his head may explode. Christianity and violence?!?!?!
I will forever be a student.
By taking up arms and revenging yourself, you are in effect saying you do not believe in the just God, who will judge us based on our deeds. If you feel you have to take things in your own hands, you clearly do not believe in God.
And this is exactly why the dichotomy between "this world" and the establishment of kingdom of heaven within each one of us.
This is why Jesus says so many times to his followers and especially accusers "I am not of this world".
As the island of our knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance.
...as Stalin was a closet Orthodox for much of, if not his entire, life.
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
You might check out the writings of Bishop John Shelby Spong. He writes in great detail with great wit and intelligence on these very thoughts.
You are not alone. More believe like you than you think.
Me, I believe all of it, except in God, and embracing religion.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
Oh yes, the concept of this game could never happen. I mean as we all know christians have never been known to be violent or to push their religion on anyone else. Not like the salem witch trials or the crusades or anything. They would never try to push their beliefs on anyone else, you know, like going to another country to preach to "the savages" or standing outside movie theaters of movies that go aginst their beliefs and shun the people going to them. And for another thing... Christians are all about love and tolerance so they would never turn their back on a pregnant teen as a sinner and they would also never tell their congreations to burn any book, CD, and/or movie that they deem goes aginst God. Sheesh, what do you try and take some Christians for? Self rightious hipocrits....oh wait...christians have done all of the above. My bad. Honestly, I do not think that this game is really on the mark in current society because there is a large, non-christian community out there, but if we let it, this country could turn into a Chruch run country and they WILL dictate everything to us. We just have to make sure that does not happen.
I'm a Christian and I find that amazingly offensive. That and blinded. Honestly. Ew.
Jeez. That's embarrassing to me and (actual Christians, not talking about legalistic, self-righteous mono-theist-maniacs) Christians as a whole. I mean, obviously I believe there's one God. That's my religion, but I think the best way of spreading it is probably NOT by going 'ZOMG!!`1oneone KILL TEH HEATHUN ADN TEH DEVUL ROCK MUSIXC!!'
Honestly. Ow. I'd like to apologize for this game.
Copyright. The law doesn't forbid people to retranslate the Bible or Dante's Comedy and issue a new study edition. Anything since 1923, on the other hand...
Wow. I thought the entire rock stars are evil thing was stereotyping and satirizing some of the more fundamnetalist Christians. Little did I know... But these guys aren't even trying - theres no BLOOD!!! I mean come on!!!! And no mention of evil homosexuals, people who play D&D, the ACLU, unbaptized babies, Catholic priests...
Also obvious, people with Muslim-sounding names are Muslim. No, no clearly it doesn't endorse prejudice. I'm just giving up on this one though. Theres just no point in trying anymore. Theres so much prejudice against Islam around the world that people don't even recognize it as prejudice anymore.
I mean wow. Just wow. Someone actually coded this. Someone with brains enough to code. Wow.
On the flip side this game seems so over the top it'd probably be entertaining to play. Though I'll wait for the expansion which features Pat Robertson and gang taking out Hugo Chavez and assaulting non-believers with the power of his speech.
I typed a whole lot more here and then just deleted it. Theres just no point really. Fucking Slashdot posting this in the morning - now I get to be depressed the whole day. I don't believe in a god. If there was one there'd be no stupid people.
Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
I always thought that GOD was god. Where do some people get off saying that Jesus is God? Jesus and God can't BOTH be god, and if they could then why would God need the Jesus-figure for himself if he never has to prove himself to humans? Hell, why even bother with the Rapture if, once again, God never has to prove himself to mankind? And didn't Jesus really only care about people following the messages that he taught, not who did or did not believe such and such in specific?
This is why I usually try to stay out of talking religion with anyone. It doesn't make sense. No amount of explanation can make it make sense since it's been so widely interpreted and, let's not forget, practically everybody _knows_ theirs is the only Correct God. Everything in absolutes.
I have my belief, and I'm sticking with it: "don't do stupid shit."
Number of abortion providers murdered in the last 15 years: < 25 (http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm)
i d=5772&t=Archive)
Number of people killed by Muslim suicide bombers on Tuesday: > 60 (http://www.thedenverdailynews.com/?page=details&
I'm not going to defend anyone who kills an abortion doctor, or imply that each one wasn't a terrible tragedy. The truth of the matter, however, is that the scale of the two problems just doesn't compare at all.
Also, for what it's worth, I do believe the bible with all of my being, and I have in fact read it. Actually, I've not only read it, I've studied it enough to understand the source of the apparent contradictions, and why they aren't really contradictions. In fact, under real scrutiny the Bible holds up better than just about any other work of comparable size out there.
"If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for everyone else."
the enemy of my enemy is my 'gag and stammer'
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
So, you took the pill, huh?
In fact they are contradictions and much of the time they are caused because the thing was edited left and right. Also some of the books in the new testament were written to "clarify" books of the old testament but since the bible tells us that god pretty much stopped talking to people after moses, those people were just making some shit up - their interpretation of the earlier evens which frankly just don't mesh.
Also, there are many examples of mistranslation, both intentional and accidental. There are many books on the subject.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
*sigh*. The Constitution guarantees free speech under the law, not free speech at Wal-Mart. They aren't saying the game should be illegal; they're saying Wal-Mart should be ashamed to sell it and pull it off their shelves. Big difference.
Many people don't believe this book with all of their being. Most of them have never read it.
-- *~()____) This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
Stalin as a child went to seminary school to become an orthodox priest. He never did finish due to personal problems, but it is something to keep in mind when you look at Stalin as a person.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
I can see there's a lot of Wisdom in this lawsuit.
Oops - I just realized He never mentioned guns. So I guess you were right. My bad.
I love games with good stories. How is this any different from God of War? Besides the fact there are some silly people who might believe it.
I think the more we fictionalize the Bible, the sooner people will stop taking it so damn seriously, and what is wrong with that?
Kill or convert... really, what better way to make people realize that radical Christianity isn't that far from radical Islam?
Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
(Posting anonymously to keep what little karma I may have.)
I don't think that this points out that Christian extremists are any less crazy than Muslim extremists, just that they tend not to kill themselves when they are promoting their agenda. How many troops have been interviewed who view this foray into Iraq as being like another Crusade? How much of the extremist American public views it as such? Is an extremist Christian killing a Muslim in Iraq any better than an extremist Muslim killing a Christian in Iraq? (The answer to this, if I were to listen to any mainstream media, would be that yes, it is.) If we're to take that into account, how many people have American Christian extremists slaughtered (albeit in another country) because they think they have a higher calling? The death toll for civilians in Iraq is many thousands, I'm sure even if only *some* of them were due to extremists (not counting extremist policy from a president who thinks that *god* is directing him to kill dark people in another country), we can start to see similarities in scale.
Look up "monk translation insertions" sometime. Even if the books were a thousand years old the script would have to be touched up by monks as the pages became worn from use. Also the oldest copy of the bible is partial and dates from 3rd century as far as I know. (http://www.allabouttruth.org/oldest-known-copy-of -the-bible-faq.htm)
Religious books were recopied every hundred years or so. The copies we have today have been copied dozens of times by monks who often "modernized" concepts to be in line with the politics of the current day. Also what they perceived as inconsistencies in the original work were "corrected".
Many Christian histories had this problem at least when compared to the record of Jewish scholars. Jewish scholars had an entire class of specialists that maintain documents and compare scrolls for discrepancies and drift. I remember from some research projects that Jewish histories were well respected for maintaining original accuracy while Christian monasteries had a reputation for "inserting" new materials into transcriptions.
The following is an except from http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/bib-docu.ht ml to back up my assertion on the reliability of Jewish histories. I don't have time to find reliable references for the "drift" in Christian lore, but Google seemed to have a lot of links.
The scribe was considered a professional person in antiquity. No printing presses existed, so people were trained to copy documents. The task was usually undertaken by a devout Jew. The Scribes believed they were dealing with the very Word of God and were therefore extremely careful in copying. They did not just hastily write things down. The earliest complete copy of the Hebrew Old Testament dates from c. 900 A.D....to just use one of those pools from Populous that converts people? ;)
"There are people who do not love their fellow human being, and I _hate_ people like that!" - Tom Lehrer
The tactics you describe in the game are certainly NOT Christian, but sound more like the Turks when the swept through North Africa, and tried to invade Europe through Spain. The Q'ran gives a so-called Infidel one chance to renounce their old religion, and accept Allah, or die. So, let's call this what it is - an Islamic attempt to make Christians look like Muslim.
Emphasis mine. I think that it is pretty literal of an interpretation of the Bible mixed with some of the ideas about how forces existing in the world might react. I think it is hilarious that the "Global Community Peacekeepers" are the ones causing war and attacking the believers.
that what is considered core Buddhist beliefs are generally pretty nice. But just the same way that there are inhumane christian beliefs there are inhumane buddhist beliefs. It doesn't take much for a brain to malfunction, and there are over 6 billion of them. Plus, take into account group conciousness, which tends to be far more volatile in certain situations, and you have a low level of predictability about how all people will interpret what is (or should be) an internally applied practice.
I only was refuting your claim that everyone "except buddhists" is f-ed up. I think the small amount of core integration people feel they need before they classify themselves as religious or spiritual belies the idea the "good christian" or "good buddhist" meme.
Please stop stalking me, bro.
How many Christians do you think that this stuff is okay? Very few if any, I would think.
True christianity does not promote hate crimes:
Matthew 26(NIV):
BOQ
51 With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear. 52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?
EOQ
God clearly does not need Christians to be violent to carry out His plans.
This kind of stuff "does not further", to quite Siddhartha.
"The best laid plans of mice and men gang oft agley..." - ROBERT BURNS
Paraphrase:
:-p
Christians are good for Jesus
Atheists are good for nothing
I really wish people would stop associating misguided movements like the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas with the "Christian Right". These are Hypocrites and nothing else. Christian Right implies Christian Conservative. By their very nature all Christians are conservative meaning that they tend to look at morality as being important. That however does not mean that they try to force their beliefs on people or condemn people. In fact the book of Romans pretty much forbids that.
People who "hate" homosexuals are misguided and do not represent the beliefs of the Christian Faith. Just because they go around calling themselves Christians doesn't mean they even understand what that means. Jesus taught that while there is right and wrong you should definitely embrace sinners (seeing that we all are sinners) and not judge them. So please stop associating the "Christian Right" with the haters who call themselves as such.
Let's start with her.
For anybody that wants to try this thing out for themselves, there's a game demo available for download, although it doesn't seem to be available on the official site anymore (I think GamersHell.com is a reputable site, but you might want to run an AV scan on the binary first).
I tried playing the demo a few months ago. Overall, I thought it was pretty crappy, but it was kind of amusing and there were some game mechanics which I thought was pretty neat. For example, in most RTS games "converting" units to your side is a special thing which happens fairly rarely, while in Left Behind its a central game mechanic.
From TFA: "Left Behind Games' president, Jeffrey Frichner, says the game actually is pacifist because players lose "spirit points" every time they gun down nonbelievers rather than convert them." Oh, okay, well I guess that's ok then.. "They can earn spirit points again by having their character pray." Much cooler, God is Forgiving (tm) so you can just gun them all down and pray a little every time. In the name of *BANG!* God *BANG!* rest in peace.
"... either convert or kill non-Christians" ,
LoL, well that's exactly what christians have done for centurys in the past!
If they could still get away with doing it today, it would still be going on, I can guarantee it.
Do you get to torture the subjects too ontill they 'repent'? (and if they don't you get to slay them. Classic christian fun!)
These books and films scared the living shiite out of me when I was a kid. They coerced me into fundamentalist Christianity, to the point where we would fight with kids we couldn't 'convert'. How is this different than militant Islam? Now, they have made it into a game for kids to brainwash them. Well, if any parent actually wants their kids playing this game, it's probably already too late for them. :(
Banning the sales is one thing, EDUCATING the public is another.
The whole Left Behind thing should have been banned when it first came out. Governing by rule of theocratical terror...wait... aren't we living in that world now? For anyone who's read the books or seen the films, the parallels are frightening. This from a conservative Republican who's a recovering-Fundie.
Sorry man... the Internet pooped on me.
but since the bible tells us that god pretty much stopped talking to people after moses,
Who do you think Jesus is?
Also some of the books in the new testament were written to "clarify" books of the old testament [...] those people were just making some shit up
Jesus used the religious documents of the Old Testament to try to prove that he was indeed the prophesied Messiah.
Now, go pick out some specific books. I'm sure that in a book that you say is nothing but centuries of compounded mistranslations, you could be prepared to discuss one of them.
DATABASE WOW WOW
Brian Lehrer had the Left Behind authors, Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins, on his show November 27 to talk about the Left Behind series, their new book series, and the video game. Within the first 10 minutes, the authors clearly state that all non-believers will be slaughtered during the end times, including but not limited to Jews and Muslims. Their idea of not being biblical literalists is that they don't think Jesus will actually be mowing them down with a sword in his mouth. So, the game doesn't seem to stray too far from the authors' intents.
I think of myself as an antagnostic, my wife is a secular Jew, I live in New York, and I listen to the Devil's music, so I probably have every right to be offended by the books and the game, but I think they're funny in a campy way, similar to Jack Chick tracts. I'm going to pick up a used copy for my Satanist brother just to tweak him. I don't think the game should be banned any more than any other violent game, and it's good to know how all those Ned Flanders types really feel about the rest of us in their heart of hearts.
It got me to thinking that I should create my own spiritually inspired video game. It'll be a giant pray button that takes over the screen, and you can't minimize it or quit it. Why would you want to do anything else?
I think this game is retarded as much as the next bloke. As a firm believer in humanity over religion and science over spirituality, I think this game is hilarious and will probably be terrible. But those of you out there who disagree with the Christian religion (as I do) are wrongly lashing out at the context of the game.
You know, if I didn't know better, I'd say the entire point of this game being made was to prove a point to everyone who says games do not influence people. If you guys cry fowl on this game, you lose the right to defend games like GTA.
You guys should know better. Logic people, logic. A lot of you sound just as bad as radical Christians when talking about this game. Slashdot groupthink: So long as I agree with it, it is O.K.! If I don't, BOOOOO HISSSS BOOOO. This kind of thing isn't about agreement or disagreement. It's about what is right and what is wrong. And what is right here is simple: Freedom of expression and speech. This ideal is the most important thing, no matter what the subject matter is.
P.S. I'm totally going to buy this game and play it with my friends turning it into quite possibly the most hilarious drinking game of all time.
The word "hate" is a clear mis-translation typical of a text that has had to forge the muddy waters of several languages, 2,000 years, and numerous cultural misunderstandings.
The one and only way to know that this is a "mis-translation" is to have the original autographa. Even the most staunch Christian apologists admit that the original autographa do not exist.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
Um... you do realize that this is an Evangelical game made by Christians, yes? The Christians are the good guys. It's based on the bestselling Left Behind series, and the Christians in the game are fighting a defensive war against the forces of the anti-Christ.
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
To reverse the cliche, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. Personally, I don't see much difference between these Christian extremists and the Muslim extremists we're supposedly fighting in Bush's "War on Terra'". These Christians are terrorists in that the worldview they expouse is a violent one, in which non-believers are proselytized by the sword.
That said, now that they have their violent video game of Christian "love", perhaps these lunatics will leave the rest of ours alone. I'm not holding my breath though... after all, it is "do as I say, not as I do", in the bizarro world of Christianity.
We want some answers and all that we get
Some kind of shit about a terrorist threat
- Ministry
So, what is Jesus's problem? Inferiority complex? I must beg for his forgiveness or he will damn me to hell?
You damn yourself to hell.
By His Grace are we saved, although all of humanity falls short in the eyes of God.
man invented religion, not the other way around
Hmm. Were you there at the time?
There area lot of things that science simply cannot prove - the existence of an Almighty, for example. However, there are many things that science cannot disprove - such as the existence of an Almighty. Those who say that one does not exist are no more rational than those who say that He does.
DATABASE WOW WOW
Maybe it's just me, but I don't get why everyone is up in arms over this game. Killing cops, women, innocent bystanders, etc. in video games is a-okay, but killing non-Christians crosses a line? I'm really not offended by any of the previous examples, I just don't understand what the difference is.
First I have a couple terms to make:
Old Testament == Old covenant.
New Testament == New Covenant.
Mosaic Law, Laws given by Moses from God for Israel.
Divine Law - Laws given by God to govern all human action.
Each covenant was sealed with blood. Old covenant - bunch of animals cut in half, circumcision, that stuff. New covenant, sealed by Blood of Christ.
The new covenant washes over the old testament, discard the old, in with the new. We knew in the OT that a new covenant was to be established and a Messiah was to come (Jews are still waiting). With the new messiah came a new covenant, not in contradiction with the Old Covenant, but purifying it as we move towards a new Eden -see Matthew 5: 17,19 and Definately Hebrews 8. Christ and Paul both spoke on God's law as they were often confronted by the Jewish leaders of the time as to what laws to follow. So we have to read the scriptures that relate to the Law that is set up through Christ. Which is where we get the breakdown of love the Lord and Love your neighbor -see Galatians 6:2 and Matthew 22:37-40 "By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.".
Also all but one of the 10 commandments are repeated in the New Testament, with the exception of remember the sabbath but it says that they "are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself.". But of the Mosaic law the NT specifically mentions a couple issues in Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9, and 1 Timothy 1:10. Now a key thing to note is that homosexuals are lumped with adulterers, prostitutes, greedy people, drunkards, slanderers, and swindlers. But special emphasis today seems to be put on Homosexuals, maybe because it is a hot topic, trendy or something. This is a brief version of my version of the cliffs notes of the NT view on this. It is by no means comprehensive. There is a ton of stuff in the NT and I am a Soli Scriptura Person but as such I need to take in context all of scripture rather than using pieces out of context to serve a personal vendetta. To really understand you will need to do a lot of study of the New testament so you can get things in context. This is why we have pastors and theologians. Just the same as there are Politicians and Philosophers. Some ideas are complex to delve into but simple to live by. God's Law isn't to hurt us but to keep us from making dangerous mistakes, most every one of the 10 commandments has real and dire consequences, not just spiritual. They are more guidelines to live a good and healthy life. Hope this helped.
Wasn't this a video game on the Simpsons? Convert the heathens or something along those lines?
- Kal`Goblez
I'm a lurker who just had to say something here. Bring up anything about Christians and there's automatically a lot of feelings that people have either for or against, regardless of what the article is actually about. Fine. Have your opinion, but don't flame the other side just for not agreeing with you, you're just hurting your point. "If you buy this game you're going to hell!" is just as bad as "Christians are idiots and no one with a brain would believe what they say they do." I believe in free speech and will defend your right to flame away, sure. Just be aware that you're not helping your case and tend to just sound hypocritical. So, if anyone cares, here's my hopefully rational take on TFA: First, Walmart can and should sell the game if they feel it's a good business decision. Walmart has never claimed to be a "Christian" or for that matter "Muslim" organization and as such should not have to agree with organizations which do claim those affiliations. The only reason they should take it off their shelves is if they feel they can't sell it. Second, those Christian organizations which are upset about the game also have every right to express that opinion, and should do so if that's what they believe is in line with their beliefs. Free speech is still relevant even when the opinions expressed seem ridiculous to another group of people. Period. Third, the game is not actually a "Convert or Die", that's just a blown up opinion that sounds scary enough to talk about. The writers are very clear that killing is wrong in the game and will hurt your chances of winning, not help them. While you can use weapons, they are meant in defense if you're playing the Christian side. Not so with the Anti-christ side, which are clearly meant to show that "only bad guys kill people". The goal of the game is to convert, certainly, but not as a crusade or inquisition. What you have to realize is that in this version of Christian end time theology, literally anyone who does not believe in Jesus as God by the time Earth's "timer" runs out, will be doomed to an eternity without God, a horrible unthinkable thought. These Christians are trying to save people in what is to them a very real danger, and the game is meant to reflect that, not a convert at gunpoint mentality. I'm not saying that this game is doing a great job at showing it, but that is the thought behind the process. Way, way behind, as the "game" concept seems to be overshadowing the "Christian" concept here quite a bit, and I think that's what's causing most of the trouble. Fourth, about the non-PC elements of the game, the "Muslim sounding names" etc: well, it is trying to tell the story related in the Left Behind series, in which much of the action takes place in the Middle East. In the book, as in the Christian belief, there are people from that area of the world on BOTH sides. And the main villain is, as I recall, Romanian. However, the game seems to be focusing on the main characters, who happen to be American...mostly. (There are several very prominent characters on the Christian side who are from various other countries, though it's not clear how featured they are in the game.) If this really is a racial split, than I'm disappointed but I can't comment on it since we really don't know yet. So I'd advise a hold fire on that for a second. As to Muslims not being allowed on the Christian side (and here I'm talking about religion, not race) it makes sense that if you don't believe that this end time view is going to happen, then you are not qualified to be on the Christian side if it did happen, right? Stop complaining about this point, it's not anti-tolerant, it's just a realistic viewpoint saying that if this end time happens, the only ones expecting it will be the ones who believe it will happen. And for the Anti-christ side not being able to win: this is again a conflict between the "game" and "Christian" ideas that this company is trying to put together. True, it might make a better game for the other side to be able to win (and technical
If you want to feel better, go watch Borat.
It's essentially the same argument.
- RG>
Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
I have sometimes mused about what a Quaker video game might be like. Specifically, how could one modify the Quake engine to make a Quaker video game... then insanity ensues.
It's extremely hard to describe what Quakers ("The Religious Society of Friends") are. They have deep roots in Christianity, but they reject the concept of any centralized creeds or doctrine or ceremony. The effect of this is that they are extremely diverse, and hard to define.
I sometimes attend the Friends meeting in my area, though I'm not a member. They are the oddest most eclectic group of people I've ever encountered in one place. There are Christians. There are Athiests. There are agnostics. There are hippy-ish love-and-peace types. There is even a Buddhist attender. They are bound together basically by respect for the quaker "peace testimony" (though one is not required to be a pacifist to be a Quaker, most consider it an ideal), and a belief that humans have within them an "inner light". Different people interpret what this "inner light" is and what it means in different ways, and for the most part everyone tries to respect everyone else's perspective.
There are quaker meetings ranging from the Evangelical all the way to the Unitarian. Most fall some place in between.
Quaker's tend to be fairly oriented towards social activism (especially in the area of anti-war and anti-poverty movements). Tom Fox (peace worker held hostage and murdered in Iraq) was a Quaker, for example.
Many quaker meetings consist of nothing more than sitting silently and meditating/praying/thinking together with the group (and occasionally anyone who feels so moved getting up and saying a few words). It's a simple yet powerful thing.
One of the main problem with translating these "spiritual" elements of life into a video game is that the "economics" of it is entirely different. Video games are individualistic to the extreme: you as the player are pretty much the only thing in the virtual universe that matters. You want bigger guns to do more damage, and stronger armour to take less damage, and all other resources are towards progressing those ends. Or some analog of those things. This just gets goofy when the analog is "more spirit" and "more conversions": in the end it's still all about you the player getting your team into heaven. The only games that come close to side stepping this issue are games with imersive story lines that give the player the sense of belonging to a world in which one begins to feel that the self is a part of a greater whole. You still have the weapons/armour/skill economy, but at least it feels like it has more significance than taking down a boss (though taking down a boss can be pretty satisfying in its own way at times too!). I think of games like some in the Ultima series, and perhaps even the original Deus Ex. Hmm, this later game I could actually imagine being played entirely without killing and still be "fun", and have a decent story to get involved with... interesting.
The First Amendment prohibits *government* from censoring speech. If it were the government trying to push this title off the shelves, I'd agree with you.
But this isn't state censorship. This a group of private citizens leveraging their power as consumers to get another private actor (Walmart) to stop spreading a message the group disagrees with. Private actors do *not* have tolerate every idea out there; if they did, we would cease to have a marketplace of ideas where the truth wins out. The First Amendment *contemplates* private citizens attempting to promote their favored ideas and suppress ideas they think are wrong--that's called deliberative democracy.
Always remember the private/state distinction when you think of free speech.
Games For Windows Magazine's latest podcast is covering this story -- interesting and in-depth commentary. 1UP Coverage: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3155898 Actual Podcast Download: http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3148397
games journalism blog
There are many books on the subject.
And I'm sure you have read them all.
The statement that the Bible is full of contradictions is the same as the comment that the Muslim religion is warlike; both statements are stated as fact, but in fact were overheard, matched what the hearer wanted to hear, and thus became fact to them. If someone read the bible with the intent of disproving it, they will not have a hard time. However, someone with sincerity of heart, who wants to learn from God, WILL get to know him. Jesus recognized this when he praised God for hiding the truth from the Intelligent ones and revealing them to babes. This is why I'm not shocked to read posts such as yours.
As a rule, I never trust dark brown ketchup.
The author of http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=211702&t hreshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=17234934 that post, which I replied to, used the term "hidden agenda" and was clearly speculating that liberals having a hidden agenda (which party bashes Wal-Mart? Democrats, except if Wal-Mart employees say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas", then it's the Religious Right, but most of the year it's Democrats).
Maybe you should hop off your partisan high-horse before posting again. The point I was trying to make was bi-partisan.
Happy goldfish bowl to you.
I think this is one of the first times a video game soundtrack is actually in iTunes....
/ viewAlbum?id=193140985&s=143441
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa
I would say that the Crusades were not "Christian". The Crusades were antithetical to every Christian belief I can think of.
- Old referring to the covenant (or agreement) of the Law.
- New referring to the covenant of grace through (mod me down) Jesus Christ.
That should clear up many discrepancies that you describe. Course there's plenty more to argue but I have to finish writing this paper on ethnic democracy in Israel, so we'll chat later.To make a point of the many contradictions existing between the old and new testaments is to miss the point: There's supposed to be a lot that's different in the messianic era of postjudaic tradition.
It boils down to a simple theology:
1. God creates free will
2. Creation abuses free will, God upset
3. God sends messianic figure to equalize cosmic scales of crime and punishment
Traditional Judaism takes place in #2 where God's not too happy, Christianity is #3 where He's settled down.
Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
Good thing your "will" was strong enough to dismiss it "out of hand," which as I'm sure you know means that you ignored it without even thinking about it. Don't present yourself as a thinker who doesn't think about things; it weakens any argument you make.
Here's a demo of the game: Left Behind: Eternal Forces demo
go play it and then comment.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
First of all the Crusades were brought on by crhistians, my point had nothing to do with if was part of christian ethics. My point was that you can be Christian and go kill people, and that it was a part of that history. So Christians as a generalization is as peacful as Islam in that regard, with people on the extreem side and people not. You do not associate Christianity with the Crusades, so why should we associate Islam on 9/11? The actions of the few should not reflect the thoughts/beliefs of the many(this is not in regards to Islam or Christianity but everyone I'm just tired of people making assumptions as the parent did). Maybe my original post was not clear.
Let's take a quick look at the here and now.
Most of the world's murder, pain and suffering is being perpetrated by fervent religious believers. You can argue who's worse: maniacs or fanatics, but the bottom line is that religion is bringing Hell to Earth, right now.
Of course, here in the good ol' U.S.&A, our religious fanatics are cute and cuddly, like this piece of work in Utah who's up on charges of involvement in serial rapes because that's what his religion told him to do.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Quick! Somebody call Jack Thompson!
I am a Christian, and one that avoids being associated with the "fundamentalists" and "right", having more of a left-middle political standpoint. I will avoid commenting on some of the drivel that has been posted on this thread in intolerance of Christians masquerading as "tolerance of all cultures". As a group we are tolerated as poorly as telemarketers. But that is understandable given the influences that people have today. A Christian has to be tolerant of the rest of the world, but the rest of the world is intolerant by default to a Christian. The game sounds out of order from the description. Killing a non-Christian is wrong if the only reason for killing them is their faith. I fully support Walmart's decision to not sell it, although I doubt it's for the violence factor (seeing as many other violent games are sold without a problem), but more likely for its weird interpretation of one of the books of the Bible.
You can't have faith in something that you've seen, or that is absolute. Faith implies that what it is you believe can't be proven. You can say, "I have faith that planes can fly.", and this means nothing because we already know that they can fly. Having faith is believing that God exists or that Jesus is God's son or that the Chargers will win the Superbowl. You can't prove it, but you're not likely to be swayed that it isn't true.
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it by not dying. - Woody Allen
But what will? brb, bible study. afk, crusade. brb, bathroom. brb, confession.
I vote for the excluded middle:
3) The Bible is comprised of many different manuscripts from many different authors over many different times from both oral and written traditions and was subsequently altered by accident or volition by other humans at many different times for many different reasons.
Hence, the Bible is full of vague, nonsensical, and contradictory things.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
Is the head of Wal-Mart an ancient Hebrew scholar, by any chance?
Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
It's more like someone that actually tries to follow Jesus' teachings from the Bible. Much of what passes for "Christian" is more
akin to Dogma- more like the leaven of the Pharisees than anything else unless you count what the Zealots had in mind...
It's a stupid game, from the sounds of it- I'd not want the thing on the shelves any more than I would want Postal 2 or the
eventually out Postal 3 on Wal-Mart's shelves. And, if they'd ban one of the Postals from their shelves they should ban this
one for the very same reasons.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
The review at the Onion AV Club gave it a D.
As to the protest, I would like to remind you that Christianity does not have a monopoly on obnoxious advocates trying to ram the prejudices of their worldview down everybody's throat.
Thank you and good night.
So what you are saying, is that EA needs to stop beating their employees?
Parent has an excellent point - the old testament != Christianity. While the Old Testament is still read, it isn't taken literally and anything that the New Testament says "overwrites" the Old. Nowhere did Christ say "kill the infidel."
n/t
The other thing, I'll probably get the game 'cause I think it looks fun and it might loosely portray actual events that might happen. (I don't find it hard to believe that one day Christians will again be killed for their belief in America as they are in other countries.) The Bible seems to say that in Revelation. From what I understand from reading the FAQ on the games website the Christians aren't the ones doing the killing.
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Anyone know if they have multiplayer so I can kill my Christian friend?
Since this site is very one-sided on the topic, I'll try to contribute a couple points of view from the other side.
1. The post's cute little tag line, "from the the-crusades-were-fun dept." Really exemplifies ignorance through mockery. The Crusaders share more similarities with Hitler's "Mein Kampf" than this silly tag line is willing to admit. Just like Hitler cherry picked his beliefs from the Bible, so did many of those involved in the Crusades. Some of the Crusaders were in fact well educated secularists who were bored and joined merely for the adventure. The bottom line is that the Crusades are brought up by fools who haven't studied the Bible, to make a point that what the Christians believed in (the Bible) caused the Crusades. Are we to believe that someone who chooses to remain ignorant on the subject has intellectual superiority over those who commit their life to studying the subject? No, of course not! Yet, such sophism is becoming the norm in the realms of the elite.
2. Personally, I find the "Left Behind" video game to be quite complimentary to that of the "Jesus Camp" so-called-documentary, because they both grossly mis-characterize Christians in a way that's misleading and dishonest.
But you can have faith in the consistency of your perceptions. So far, in my 22 years, I've never seen gravity not work. But I must take it on faith that it will continue to do so. I'd say there's a good chance it will happen, but I don't actually know any of the relevant physics to start figuring the probabilities. So from the evidence I have, I use my faith to guide my daily life, not jumping off of buildings, for example. I don't believe that anyone's actually proven that gravity will continue to work tomorrow, but I'm not likely to be swayed that it isn't true.
Ignorance is not linguistic drift.
Much as I hate to resort to the ol' lookup, at some point it becomes clear that reference to a dictionary is necessary. Thus, taking the first definition of the world "tolerance" from Dictionary.com, we have "a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry." By definition, I can't tolerate what you believe if I believe the same thing, because your beliefs do not differ from mine. Whether Christianity is right or wrong does not even enter the picture. As for whether Christians believe that, at some level, Christianity is right, there really is no question. If they thought that Christianity was wrong, they wouldn't be calling themselves Christians, now would they? Whether a person's reasons for calling themselves Christian are sound and whether their beliefs are true are completely separate questions from whether they are tolerant of those who disagree, but for whatever reason a great many people choose to call themselves Christian and thus presumably do believe in at least some of the tenets of Christianity. To the extent that those tenets which they believe in are not shared by others, yes, a Christian does believe that other people are wrong. This is also exactly the extent to which a Christian can tolerate the religious beliefs of other people.
Though I believe in Christ, I don't go around converting others, especially not at gunpoint. I don't tell others they'll burn in hell. I try to bring others to my faith by being active in it and being a decent person, and by witnessing in subtle ways.
However, this game is called Left Behind: Eternal Forces. Not Crusade 2006, not Grand Theft Torquemauto, not anything like that. It is set in the Tribulation, post-Rapture. Those who were upstanding Christians have already left. Those who are Christians now were either unbelievers or weak, and have realized the faith because they understood what just happened. Because of the Rapture, it's pretty certain (unless you willfully blind yourself) that Christianity, and in particular the book of Revelation, was correct.
Given this setup, it's entirely reasonable to believe that those who don't convert to Christianity will suffer greatly. And therefore, it's doing a favor — with good reason, because we know Revelation is right and is happening — to forcibly convert others, or at best prevent them from keeping others in the dark.
I would never approve of such a game set in the present. But if we know that Revalation is not only true but is to be literally interpreted and is happening now, the rules change a lot.
Yes, it appears that we are in agreement with each other.
I hate it when I find out I've been fighting with someone who agrees with me!
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
> Players can choose to join the Antichrist's team,
...all praise His holy and good name! What a guy! Even the Bible admits the vast majority will go to Hell. Praise His kind and beneficent name! Only the vast majority of people living in unending agony, not actually all of them. Oh, my Sweet Lord, ooh you are so big. Blah blah blah what's on Dr. Phil tonight?
> but of course they can never win on [his] side.
No, but you can give God a Pyrrhic victory as he and the 3 people who didn't go to Hell look down on the vast, vast, teaming multitudes screaming in unending agony for all eternity.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
I have a question, and I know you all have it, too. What is up Satan's ass?! All he wants to do is fuck us up, the dick-licker! Now the Lord said, "I am the light of the world." Now, He could as easily have said, "I am King Shit of Fuck Mountain. Why would you fuck with me?!" -Reverend Winton Dupree
well yes in a way, Jesus does paraphrase some stuff from the old testament but really, old testament gives you laws to follow, and christ's death freed us from those damning laws. because I beleive in christ my "fines" for the old laws have been paid for. but Jesus doen't preach lies and adultry and stealling he preaches to love thy neighbour. which inherently does not mean steal from him, sleep with his wife or lie to him. Religion gives you do's and don'ts, christ gives us faith. If you focus on doing good you are less likely to be doing evil. if you focus on not stealing and not lieing, your more likely to slip up. whats that saying about the brain not distinguishing don't from do?
Of course, the following passage was deleted from the scriptures by unanimous consent of the church elders:
Actually, the original meaning of "lies" (untruth) has been lost in translation... In modern practice, it's NOT cool to tell your buddy that you're going to the gym, when you are, in fact, going to a friend's house to watch football on his 60" plasma TV w/surround sound. Your girlfriend, now that another story...It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
...so out of touch with Christianity it isn't funny. Ever heard of Constantine, the Roman Emperor? He tried to force conversions to Christianity on his populace too. Christianity is never about being purely nominal, it is about a belief from the heart. Forcing God's hand (only He can change the heart) by killing those who don't convert out of fear or convenience is stupid and wrong (murder). I wouldn't mind if this game WAS another GTA clone, but to parade it as a 'Christian' game is making me see red.
There are a lot of Christians and/or atheists/agnostics on here who have spouted a lot of heresies and compromises to do with Christianity, which were quite annoying to read seeing as they were modded as 'insightful', etc.
The Bible is not 'contradicting' itself. To say it is contradicting itself is like giving up on understanding a computer program after browsing quickly over it. Not gonna work. Also, there is a whole thesis waiting to debunk the so-called contradictions myths. Maybe one has already been written, but it's out of context for this site...
Also, Christianity prompts people to seek the right to bear arms, in self defence only. An offensive war is a morally bankrupt war, and so the Iraq war is not only wrong, it is distinctly evil. That's why you can reconcile bearing arms to deploring abortion, etc.
Homosexuality under God's government is punishable by death. So are all the other sins humans commit every day. However, by His grace, we don't have to die if we merely believe in Jesus as Saviour and Lord of all. Technically though, in a Christian country, homosexuality should be banned by law, as that is what the Bible says. Still, hate crimes against homosexuals are just bad. A Christian needs to treat them with the same love or compassion as a murderer, rapist, or child molester, etc.
Isn't it funny how the God's Word, the Bible, preaches moderation in all things, yet people are so willing to dismiss it as a hotbed for radicals...
Really? Because I thought that was exactly what James Kopp did.
For perspective on the "ethics" of "Christians":
Let's be honest now -- there are plenty of Christians that sit around planning ways to kill the nonbelievers. Just like there are Muslims that sit around thinking of ways to kill heretics, just like there are communist radicals and anarcho-syndicalists that plan murders of democratic leaders, etc. Humans are violent monsters, and ideologies make them even more monstrous than usual. Christians are no better than other group of murderous thugs on this planet. And if you don't believe me, visit an abortion clinic sometime and check out how serious the security is. That's the kind of climate of fear that Christian terrorists create.
Still not convinced? A wonder group of faithful men and women. These guys are just great, huh? Are you sure that Christians are never violent and don't use violence as a means of political and social change? If you think I'm blowing what they do out of proportion, just check out the Army of God website. They make absolutely no bones about it: they support and encourage the murder of doctors. Or David Lewis Rice, who murdered an attorney for (as he saw it) spreading atheism. The list goes on and on.
This game sounds awesome! They just need to add in being able to torture people until they confess they worship the devil and be able to kill them in horrible manners, and it will be fully historically correct.
Is it any surprise that a Christian game promotes hatred, while a Jewish game promotes understanding God?
was what god told his people to do. and yes the nephilim had children and there were also women. so yes kill them. In case you are misundertanding what these characters are, they are when the 1/3 of the angels that satan seduced to come with him, had sex with human women and produced offspring. these offspring were "the Giants" that were in the land when the Jews didn't want to go back to the promise land. they may have even been the Greek Titans. but they were not entirely Human.
Gods plan for redemtion included Humans not Hybrids. and ussually when the people didn't kill off all the women and children, those that were left alive tried to kill of the Jews (Gods People) later on. Satans plan was to destroy the Humans and taint the blood line so Jesus could never exist.
There was a demo for this game back in August or September, which I downloaded for some reason. It's really boring, especially for an RTS game. You'd think you'd get some sadistic pleasure out of converting everyone to your cause and the game's old-style values (i.e. female units cannot train to become 'workers'), but the mechanics are just boring.
Let christians have their game, the rest of us will be playing something better.
thats funny, he got "flame baited" for saying something against Muslims yet people that say things against Christians get "Insightful"
1) Because its hypocritical. There is no way that it would be ok if we had a game where a bunch of Atheists/Muslims/Jews go around killing Christians who don't convert to their way of thinking. 2) For those who liken this to GTA or Doom, you're putting two and two together and coming up with five. Yes they are both about killing, yes they are both violent and destructive, but the difference is that those games don't encourage intolerance. The aim of GTA isn't to "kill all prostitutes if they don't become nuns" or "kill all police officers who don't become drug dealers". Those games are about killing people "who are in your way". I'm not condoning that by any stretch, but what I'm saying is that this game is something entirely different and it adds a whole new element of "hate". 3) This game is prejudice and if we allow this type of thing now then where will it end? Do you think that if this game is considered "OK" that there won't be retaliatory games made? 4) It's bad enough that we can't accept each others differences in the real world, but now you want to bring that intolerance to video games too?
Cant wait for the Hot Coffee mod!
www.shortman.com.au - top shorted stocks on the ASX
Whenever discussions about beliefs (of any sort, religious or not) arise anywhere, I tend to point people to the following website:
http://www.arachnoid.com/levels/index.html
It has a nice overview of how humans perceive the world, or better yet, how everyone's worldview is formed. Not knowing these distinctions can be fatal to your intellectual development. Those who founded this country realized the power of thought, speech, science, etc. and the fact that certain types of speech can generate beliefs which are not backed by any sort of factual/scientific knowledge. This is why they probably produced the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (my belief).
It is the height of hubris for some individual, commercial or governmental entity to demand political correctness/tolerance from Wal-Mart because their beliefs differ from mine, or the 1200 people who posted on this thread (again, my belief, since the game doesn't harm me in any sort of physical way - and it is free to try and convert me into anything, if it can...).
Ultimately, all religions converge on the one and only one issue that plagues humans to this day, and will probably continue to plague us forever - "Does god exist?". Well, I have no idea - however, I _believe_ in the _belief_ that God does exist. Note I did not say I believe that God exists - which would imply some 'truthiness' or (false, weasly) authority in my statement (of which there isn't any).
And I'll tell you why God exists - because there is no freaking way I will ever be able to know the answer to every question that ever bugged me, or why things are the way they are, why electricity flows from positive to negative, why a pile of carbon-based compounds is called a 'human', etc etc. God knows the answers, and if I can get closer to God by educating myself in the ways that God (and other humans like me, and better than me, for the last N thousand years) created for me, whether it be computer science (which is what I studied), physics, chemistry, language and/or all combined, then that's what I'll do.
What I won't do is ask you to believe any of what I said. 'Cause I could be lying too.
So now, you can believe what you will.
'A lie if repeated often enough, becomes the truth.' - Goebbels
Why do I have to respect Christian beliefs? Sorry, but they're ridiculous, just as a serious belief in the Flying Spaghetti monster is ridiculous. "Ridiculous" is really an oversimplification: they're cruel, xenophobic, self-destructive, anti-love, anti-science... (no, this doesn't apply to every interpretation of the Bible, just the more popular ones in America today. Even the more "civilized" interpretations leave a lot to be desired.)
Why am I required to respect such beliefs? Do YOU respect the beliefs of a Satanist who believes in absolute anarchy, amorality, and survival of the fittest?
The Bible is a collection of myths, and a myth is nothing more than a fancy (i.e. pretentious) fairy tale. I am not arguing for a Christian genocide. I do not go out of my way to discriminate against Christians (unless one says something specific to piss me off, e.g. ranting about how homosexuality should be re-criminalized.) I don't burn crosses on their lawn. I believe that most Christian beliefs are morally, socially, emotionally, and/or intellectually harmful. What's wrong with that? Just where the FUCK do you get off trying to call me a bigot?
Do you hesitate to criticize religious/cultural beliefs that state that a girl's clitoris must be cut off at an early age? Or criticize a Biblically-founded belief in a geocentric universe?
The New Testament is really no different than the Odyssey or even Aesop's Fables; THAT is what the GP was saying. That isn't bigotry; it's a very reasonable opinion. Now, calling him a bigot; attacking anyone who DARES question YOUR favorite myth... now that just might qualify as bigotry.
Just what is wrong with saying that he respects Peter Pan just as much as the Bible? I wager that many Christians would say the same about Peter Pan and the Koran.
Rejection of Christianity does not automatically make you a bigot or a whiney 13 year old. Rejection of Christianity does indeed usually include putting it on the status of, say, Aesop's Fables--some halfway interesting moral allegory, but riddled with dangerously questionable moral statements and encased in an allegorical story that absolutely was not meant to be taken seriously.
Rejection of Christianity doesn't mean that you are required to hate all Christians or actively work against them; it just means that you've analyzed their beliefs and rejected them. Just what is wrong with that? Why do I have to "respect" beliefs that I disagree with in the strongest possible terms (young earth, creationism, omnipotent god that could save me if he wanted to but instead has apparently damned me to hell by giving me a rational mind, omnipotent God that created evil/allowed it to happen (if he's truly omnipotent, THEN IT'S THE SAME THING, PEOPLE!) and yet accepts no responsibility for it, anti-homosexuality, anti-sex in general, condoned/encouraged hatred, etc.) ?
No, sorry, it's just plain irresponsible and dishonest for me to pretend to respect beliefs that I despise. As I said in another reply, do you "respect" the beliefs of an African tribal who thinks that all girls must have their clitorises cut off at a young age? Or the geocentric beliefs that the Catholic church advocated for many hundreds of years to the detriment of free thinkers everywhere (who knows how far Galileo would have gotten? Perhaps he would have invented calculus many decades before Newton did...) Or the amoral beliefs of a pure survival-of-the-fittest anarchist? Or how about the beliefs of a terrorist suicide bomber? Can I criticize those beliefs, or would I be branded a bigot or a 13 year old for that, too?
There are some specific Christian beliefs that I do respect... the love and kindness bits, mostly. But THEY sure as fuck don't respect ME and my polygamous activities (yeah, I've had threesomes. With my longtime girlfriend whom I love dearly and will marry some day. Cue the jokes...) so why should I respect THEIR backwards, love-hating beliefs? I don't. I won't pretend to. And I'd rather be called a bigot or a 13 year old than to bow down and say it's OK to do or say something that I think is completely wrong.
Don't get me wrong; I don't begrudge them of their *right* to do it in an (allegedly) free country such as this... as the saying goes, I would die to protect their right to do so. But this kind of "respect" people like you are advocating is the absolute DEATH of rationality and progress...
The Bible is an entertaining story, but it's not any more important or valuable than other myths, such as the Odyssey, and anyone who views it as being literally truthful is a damn fool. There, that's my opinion
And I'm an amoral, lecherous, unwitting tool of Satan. That's their opinion.
As long as we're willing to tolerate each other (note that "tolerate" is not the same thing as "respect") and play nicely, neither of these opinions qualify as bigotry.
Totally worth modding up... wish I could.
i love you.
good post.
music - http://www.subatomicglue.com
>> A progressive Christian is someone who actually does what the Bible says to do:
the problem with this statement is that the bible says many many things, many which contradict each other.
there's love. sure...
there's also a lot of intolerance (do we hate gays or love them... do we kill nonbelievers or reach out to them..)
just saying your statement, while i get what you're saying, isn't all that solid...
you should reword it to "A progressive Christian is someone who does what the good parts of the Bible says to do: "
which of course means picking and choosing and doing the completely arbitrary thing (we can't trust everyone to pick and choose the same thing, cause frankly some of us are nutjobs)...
music - http://www.subatomicglue.com
"Unfortunately, creating this game is Constitutionally protected free speech,"
I hope you mean 'Fortunatly'. Do you realy want people to be able to stop you from doing something because they feel it is in 'Bad Taste'?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Before, middle and end.
also, it's only 144,000 people.
"it's doing a favor -- with good reason, because we know Revelation is right and is happening -- to forcibly convert others, or at best prevent them from keeping others in the dark."
Stupidest. logic. ever.
BY killing them you remove the chance that they will repent.
The commandment is: Thou Shall Not Kill.
not Thou Shall Not Kill, Except in The time Of Rapture.
Of course,the ten commandment are old testiment and have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FOLLOWING OF CHRIST.
Christ gave only 1 commandment.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
the old testiment has nothing to do with Christ, right?
Where does Christ say to kill people? hmmm, no where.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The article makes no mention of the element of surprise being a part of the game mechanics. If you're playing the good guys, your choices are limited to converting or gunning down the evil secretary-general of the UN (scary ! he might try to pass a resolution at you or something) and his hordes of homosexual muslim rockers. From Hell.
So, let's say I'm part of the wrong crowd, roaming in the streets, eager to rock out with my cock out (as gay rockers do). The way the game is set, I pretty much expect Christians to be there, looking to either shoot or convert me. Well, it sure doesn't sound like the Spanish Inquisition I know !
Amen. (Yes, I belong to a traditional sect of a monotheistic faith.) How many games have people fighting religious fanatics? C+C Generals America's Army Every modern-combat shooter Halo etc... Sometimes, Slashdot's atheism (forget secularism) can drive me crazy (but I respect their opinion).
What you have just done is similar to (say) taking the text out of a proposed bill which would make x, y, and z illegal - all of which most people will find offensive on their own - in exclusion of the context of the rest of the bill - that the bill only applies to those (say) participating in the illicit trade of human babies (or whatever).
In other words, you're not taking it in context of the whole text.
In short, these were commands given to the Israelites at that time, usually for a specific situation - not different than a command from God saying something like, "everyone over 40 doesn't get to see the promised land" (which actually happened). That doesn't mean that everyone today is disbarred from such things, or anything like that. It was a contextual mandate - law - specific to the circumstances and culture of the time.
This is understood within Christianity as a given, particularly as the New Testament and specifically because of the 'golden rule'/'greatest commandment' make it known that the law of the old testament (which doesn't even include the whole old testament - I'm not a bible type, so I couldn't tell you if your cited information is a part of that) is to be taken into account as long as it complies with "love your neighbor as yourself". Did Christ not 'free' the adulteress when a bunch of guys wanted to stone her?
And even if you're right, and these things are applicable outside the context of that particular story in Jewish history: would not the more important thing be how the practicioners of the faith behave as a whole right now, and not what their holy writ may be interpreted to say, completely outside the mainstream or even fringe understanding? How many Christian charities are there compared to secular ones, and how differently do they perform? Quite admirably. How many Christian-on-Muslim genocides have there been in the world (under modern Christendom)? None which I can immediately think of. Let your fruits be your witness and all that, as they say.
Karl Marx and his 'desciple Marxists' (Mao, Lenin, etc.) both did and suggested a lot of vile things in the name of the ideal, but you don't see us, as a society, blasting the snot out of Marxism and suggesting it's a vile belief system - no, we're progressive as a society, and we've largely accepted the ideals of Marx throughout the West. Same basic thing.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Why aren't these wackos shouted down by the other Christians? I know several Christians who are embarassed by the right wing, but they don't say anything. They'll speak up and talk back to non-religious because they don't want to be pigeonholed with the kooks, but they won't shout the kooks down. They let the kooks dominate the discussion because they don't want dissention within the church, but they get defensive when we assume that they agree with their more militant brethren. You need to stand up and protest when a "Christian" isn't acting in a Christian way, not close ranks and yell "bigot" when we point out that you're tolerating him. If you don't share the values of the people you're hanging out with, stop hanging out with them.
This is excellent. I love to see or hear about Christians such as you, who can clearly successfully co-exist with non-believers (such as myself). Please, continue on your path.
I never ever said I was upset by this video game and I never "suggested the death of BAZIOLLIONS of people" "to the lions" was a blatantly obvious metaphor for my suggested anti-christian backlash.
:P
I am an agnostic and I live in a "christian" nation. "christian" means you have "faith" in god. "faith" means you believe in something that is unprovable to me/you and that when you die, you go to the happy place and I don't. In my eyes, this makes you insane and arrogant - which is the best description of American foreign policy under a "christian" leader that got elected because he calls himself christian and is willing to desegregate church and state.
p.s. I'l take the flamebait for my OP, but hey it was early and I was cranky
Besides, it brought up the topic. "to the lions" FTW!
what's really needed is a game where you play one of the few uninfected humans left in the world, and you have to survive in a world full of zombies. the zombies are the (genetic and cultural) descendants of people infected by an alien mind-parasite thousands of years ago. the parasite called itself "god" to the gullible primitives it encountered. now the mind-parasite has returned to harvest its crop of food/believers, so it has switched all the infectees over to harvest mode (aka ravenous slaughter mode). you are armed only with a shotgun and rational thought, and the zombies outnumber you by thousands to one.
call it "The Second Coming", and i bet it would be a smash hit.
Imagine you've just had all your knowledge of religion removed, but you retain all of your other memories. You are in a room with all the religious texts of every religion ever conceived present, from whatever is the first to modern day religions such as Christianity, Scientology and zenBuddhism. You need to make some decision about religion before you can leave this room. Which one would you choose? Or would you declare them all to be balderdash?
There are 11 types of people, those who know unary and those who don't.
Maybe God wants one group of people to call him one thing and one group to call him whatever.
Also, maybe it's difficult for humans to articulate using human language the attributes of the supernatural.
At any rate, it's pretty clear that from your "call me this or call me that" example, it does not follow that God is only manifest inside a mortal individual. Also, even if it did follow, many religions believe in a mortal body and an immortal soul. Perhaps God is manifest inside of everybody's immortal soul.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and a great many of the other founding fathers were Masons. They were quite devout in their faith, but the practice they saw work in Masonic lodges they felt was a fine model for the United States, and that's what they did. That is, when you enter a Masonic lodge, you check your religion and politics at the door. You can be thrown out for talking about religion or politics in lodge.
I've seen it work myself. In my lodge in New York there are Turks, Armenians, Greeks, Jews, Druze, Lebanese, Syrians, Catholics, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims and even Protestants. There are any number of combinations in that mix that would have good historical reason to be at each other's throats. But they're not, and get along really quite well. Even right after 9/11, I was sure the next lodge meeting was going to be weird between the muslims and everyone else, but everyone was equally in shock about what happened and we realized we were just brothers who were all suffering.
It's a great thing, and a rare thing, and has been an island of sanity for me amidst all the insanity the last few years.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
Take a minute and actually read Leviticus 20:13. In fact, read the whole chapter. It's all about forbidden sexual relationships. In fact, read Lev. 20:15 two verses later: And if a man should lie with a beast, he shall be put to death, and you should kill the beast. Are you going to honestly suggest that the Torah is going to prohibit a man from telling a falsehood to a beast (and prohibit women from lying with beasts in the next verse)? At any rate, the Hebrew word for telling a falsehood is not used anywhere here. This chapter is all about forbidden sex.
Hopefully now you can see how it can be interpreted "any other way". That other way happens to be the correct way. Your interpretation, while hilarious, is utterly wrong.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me." Kind of closes the door on universalism - at least from Jesus' perspective.
My biggest hang-up with the traditional theology you espouse is that a supposedly loving God is perfectly content to let billions of people suffer in eternal hellfire
1. God's desire is for all people to choose relationship with Him. I'm sure that contentment is not the word that God would choose to describe His feelings about the fate of those who reject Him.
because they had the misfortune to be born to the wrong family, or at the wrong time in history, or in the wrong geograph
2. People DO NOT GO TO HELL because they were born in the wrong time or place. People choose hell because they reject God.
In Romans chapter 1, one thing it says is that God is plainly evident as a result of His creation. People who exist have been exposed to Him through their experience in the universe, and have the opportunity to reach out to Him. In Romans chapter 2 it says that God is evident in the conscience of people. People can respond to the image of God in their conscience. Finally, in Romans chapter 3 it says that people can see God in the life of Jesus Christ.
I firmly believe that any person who earnestly desires relationship with God is able to have that relationship with Him. Specifically, though, the discussion is a bit irrelevant about the "person in Africa who has never heard of God's love" Not to put too fine a point on it - what about you - (parent poster) or YOU (other reader) who *has* heard of God's love. How will you respond?
Respectfully,
Anomaly
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?
Number of abortion providers murdered in the last 15 years: less than 25
6 3768.htm), who stockpiled enough chemical weapons and suit case bombs to kill thousands.
He was caught around the time the "Dirty Bomber" was arrested (who just had some dodgy sketches of a bomb), yet he got no media attention at all.
Number of people killed by Muslim suicide bombers on Tuesday: more than 60
That's hardly a fair comparison. You're comparing abortion related murders in the U.S. and Canada to suicide bombers in Iraq. There is currently a general violence problem in Iraq due to an impotent government & U.S. military.
A fairer comparison would be something like this:
Number of abortion providers murdered in the last 5 years in US & Canada:
A few.
Number of people killed by Muslim suicide bombers in last 5 years in US & Canada:
Zero.
The magnitude of the problems are really comparable.
I'd probably be just as worried about Christian extremists in the U.S. There are lots of these tiny militant christian groups scattered around the U.S, stockpiling weapons. They just don't get the publicity.
Look up "William Krar" (http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s11
Also from the article linked above:
"The Covenant, the Sword and the Arm of the Lord, the CSA, they were in Arkansas, and they were about a 75-80 member right-wing neo-Nazi, paramilitary religious, survivalist group, who like many groups of their type, they didn't like Jews, they didn't like men and women of colour, they didn't trust people who had money, and it was their belief that the blacks and the Jews were going to be the ruination of the world, they had assembled weapons to protect their 300-acre compound. We found a 55-gallon container of cyanide that they had thought about dumping into the water system in Chicago, hoping that they could kill African-Americans. When we suggested of course blacks and white drink out of the same water system, that somewhat befuddled them."
Not alowed to change the book? WTF?!?!?
NIV, King James, New Word, The Good Word version, I must've seen about ten different versions of the bible while I was in prison! There's at least twenty or so different versions of the bible, and each new one is continually dumbed down so nobody has to think for themselves. Jesus spoke in Parables to make people think. Nowdays the new versions just flat-out tell you without leaving room to think. Gimme a break "You can't change the book." It's changed. It's on a 4th grade reading level, now, compared with a 9th grade reading level a couple decades back. From mature words to simple child-like words. It's made by man, and it's being edited by man to control man. And before you say much - I'm a Jew. This just is appalling.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I do not get this. Religion is myths and stories. Just like Hercules, Apollo, Icarus, etc, etc. Now I know just there I have proved myself an Atheist. But and this is a big but, you can worship anyway you want, whoever you want. But this is a computer game, so yeah, it is gonna be violent, and the "Left behind" series, tho a horrible set of Movies with *snicker* Kirk Cameron in them, well the first anyhow, could only stand to watch the first. These games have the ESRB label on them, I don't think poor "Johnny" WILL play this. Cuz ever Christian, "GOOD" Christian knows Violent games are forbidden.. Just like all those parental labels we put on everything. The Real people at fault are the parents, we parents(yeah i got a 2 yr. daughter)think we can just plop our kids in front of a television and they will teach what the kids to know. I am a tele-kid, and a proud one. I take responsibility for my kid, sure I might have the television on, but you know what when my kid has had enough she will turn it off and draw. just like I did. I do not let her see anything too advance (violent, etc. etc.) Really, do we parent REALLY need to have a bunch of witch burners try to tell US what we can and can't watch, play, listen to??? Not in my house, not in my town, not in my country.
i do not suffer from Insanity... I revel in it.
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In other words, Moses issued it about 1500 years before Jesus lived. Hell, even Confucius said it a half century before Jesus lived.
But don't let the facts stop you from taking full credit. And yes I do mean facts in the scientific sense. There are copies of the Torah that are carbon dated to before Jesus lived. Believe what you want about the origins of the Torah. The fact still remains that if Jesus ever uttered those words, he was merely quoting Torah.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
Regarding cheeseburgers and shrimp, the prohibition against eating shrimp is indeed found in Leviticus, and also appears in Deuteronomy.
The prohibition against eating cheeseburgers appears nowhere in the written Torah, but it is derived from a passage that appears in Exodus (twice) and again in Deuteronomy, but not Leviticus. That passage prohibits boiling a baby goat in his mother's milk, but not cheeseburgers per se. To get to the prohibition against eating meat and dairy together, one needs to look to the Oral Torah, where this "baby goat" passage is explained to mean not eating meat and dairy together.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
That should be a hell of a lot of context there for those words to mean anything different from what they say...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Can you kindly point us to a religious authoritative sources (covering 2 or 3 of the most populous Christian sects, lets say Catholics, Orthodox and Lutherans for example) that would validate what you are saying?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
If religion was governed by common sense, it would not exist at all (A virgin had a baby? Death people resucitated? 3 gods for the price of one? )
Thus it is only reasonable that free people (religious or not) should ask what are the theological foundations to ignore some bits of the Bible while following others.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Check out IGN's review here: http://pc.ign.com/articles/745/745956p1.html Personally, I was as outraged as anyone over the seemingly hypocritical nature of the game, so I decided to have some fun and read a few reviews of the game. It seems that the slashdot explaination of the game is a fairly misleading- this isn't an action game where you blast your way through non-believers: it's actually an RTS. Anyone who's played Age of Empires will remember the Priest unit that you can use to convert enemy units... now imagine an entire game based on that principle. The game strongly discourages violence, and the only time you can really get away with killing non-believers is when they attack you. Still a poorly made game, and still tacky to the extreme, but as usual the subject has been blown out of proportion.
"A mind, once expanded by a new idea, never returns to it's original dimensions." -a Super King Buffet fortune cookie
I wish I knew what idiot modded you up. Apparently he doesn't own a dictionary either.
This is NOT what faith means. The first definition of faith in any dictionary, including a late 1800s bible dictionary, says nothing about that.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Fine. You're not my friend anymore...
The battle for attention on Sunday carries over to Slashdot.
Football or Jesus?
[UID-HeinzIntel]
I believe that someone who sees God revealed in creation or conscience will have the opportunity to be introduced to Christ.
I choose to believe that in this world what is really important is that we be good to each other. I don't think it is a coincident that that meshes really well with Jesus' teachings. I also believe that if people are being good to each other how they worship, or that they worship is irrelevant.
This is intriguing to me. Why does it matter whether we are good to one another?
What is your definition of good?
How do you reconcile the contradictions between Hinduism and Christian teaching? Outside of syncretism I don't see how they can coexist. Either one is accurate and not the other or both are wrong.
Can you shed some light here?
Respectfully,
Anomaly
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?
Nice idea . . . disagreeing politely . . . while various Christian groups/people try to legislate my access to birth control, ability to get divorce, ability to get an abortion, deny my children an education including science, require those same children to say the words "one nation under God", tell me I shouldn't work outside the home, that my husband should be my "master"/head of the household, that only Jesus is right, and that I'm a horrible person/will go to hell for not believing a person who's been dead for 2,000 years and claimed to be the "Son of God" . . . What happens when their believes start affecting my life and my ability to left alone . . .
I'm sorry, at some point even the tolerance can't tolerate the intolerant.
"I believe in Jesus" from someone is just fine, but beyond that, there's nothing to discuss . . .
I don't care if they go on birth control, get a divorce, get an abortion, require their children to get an education including science (regardless of the overall impact in America of large numbers of children not learning this - better start learning Mandarin), say any sort of pledge to any sort of diety, work outside the home (if they're women), have equality with their husband/wife, do anything against their belief system except not raining on my parade . . . whether that's accosting me on the street, discussing it at work (would you discuss sexual preferences with this person - if not, don't discuss relgion), legislating, etc. That starts to cross the line . . .
Of course, then there's whole issues that come about from my beliefs, but c'est la vie . . .
...all verses you used was spoken into a specific situation, spoken to the government (of ancient Israel, but it can also be taken as a ideology we should push) or completely unrelated (2 Chronicles 15:13 is what people promised in a specific situation) to what I as a private person can do. Private vengeance, even over evil murderers like abortionists, are not allowed. The vengeance belong to The Lord...
I'd like to ask you to clarify this statement:
Well, first I believe that it is impossible for anyone to understand the nature or motives of God.
On what do you base that belief? I don't mean to be difficult - this is a serious inquiry - how can you *know* that you *can't know*?
my God is better, because I don't force him to live in my god box.
With all due respect, have you not created a different box in which to place your god?
Can your really tell me that there are more similarities between Yahweh and God the Father, than there are between Yahweh and Allah?
In fact, yes I can. The first comparison is simple, because they are the same. The second comparison is one of a personal God with one who is impersonal - fundamentally different in type.
there is a substantial disconnect between Yahweh instructing the Israelites to kill "everything that breathes" (deut 20:16) in the promised land, and Jesus' instruction to "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." (luke 6:31)
Again, respectfully, I disagree with this idea. Those instructions from God to the Israelites were specific commands to a particular people in a specific time. God knew that those who inhabited the land were irredeemable, and as such, if allowed to live, would have corrupted the Israelites - which they did when the Israelites disobeyed.
in so far any religion teaches love and personal improvement through selflessness, they are the same
Philosophically I can agree with this. Theologically, of course, I disagree. For me, theology trumps philosophy. YMMV. Essentially, the problem is at the micro level, not the macro level. Buddhism and Christianity teach that kindness is important. In that, they are the same. When you look at the why of kindness, they are entirely different. In fact, Christianity and Buddhism both teach exclusivity of their belief systems. If they each hold tenets that are contradictory, and each claims exclusivity, how can they both be true? (Or any divergent theological or philosophical systems.)
You then turn to some statements of philosophy:
in the sense that any religion teaches hate, intolerance, and violence, it is a perversion.
It is my assertion that the God wants us to be happy, and wants us to live in harmony.
I believe that the primary purpose of spirituality is not to pay homage, but rather to connect us with our fellow man.
This leads me to ask yet another important question. On what do you base this belief?
it is a relatively rare theology that posits that we worship God for his sake.
Agreed - and it is the theology which I espouse as a follower of Christ.
Respectfully,
Anomaly
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?