Slashdot Mirror
Digging Into the WikiLeaks Cables
A number of readers have sent in new WikiLeaks stories today, many of which focus on the content of the leaked diplomatic cables. The documents showed how the US government bullied and manipulated other countries to gain support for its Copenhagen climate treaty (though behavior from the US wasn't all negative), how copyright negotiations largely meet the expectations of critics like Michael Geist, and how Intel threatened to move jobs out of Russia if the Russian government didn't loosen encryption regulations. Perhaps the biggest new piece of information is a list of facilities the US considers 'vital to security.' Meanwhile, the drama surrounding WikiLeaks continues; Julian Assange's Swiss bank account has been frozen and the UK has received an arrest warrant for the man himself; the effort to mirror the site has gained support from Pirate Parties in Australia, in the UK and elsewhere; and PayPal was hit with a DDoS for their decision not to accept donations for WikiLeaks.
You said it.
I'm waiting to read the news "Julian Assange has been arrested"
everyone always calls each other by their title and the way to convince people is to tell them it's the right thing to do
this is the second or third huge US government leak and so far there is no smoking gun about baby killers or a fascist conspiracy to kill democracy
...don't seem to understand that the takedown of Wikileaks is a triumph of world government. It's literally the new world order responding to a threat and removing it. And they're cheering it on...
In February 2009 the State Department asked all US missions abroad to list all installations whose loss could critically affect US national security.
Did they list the Kaaba in Mecca? ;)
...and I'll say it again. Releasing the information was, at best, arguably illegal only on a case-by-case basis, as much of it was (supposedly) public information anyhow. The backlash against its release should have zero to do with the actual content released and 100% with the act of releasing of information in general. Reactions from the Swedish GA (siezing the opportunity), the Swiss banks (fearful of entanglement), PayPal (fearful of the Fed. Gov?), etc are far overblown and are missing the point, which should be an U.S. legal one anyway.
It's always confirmation bias!
I'd really like to comment on this but I afraid of the consequences. I'd like to work someday and possibly travel to the US. I'd rather just pretend I don't know what's happening. Besides, none of this really affects me. It's about the past and from where I stand today nothing from any of the actions they have taken has changed my life in any way. At least now yet.
[J]
I thought a proper Swiss bank account didn’t even have record of who its owner was. Maybe he did it wrong.
Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
Its like someone switched the plot to consensus reality with that of a cheap cyber punk novel. Oh well, at least its not a Phillip K Dick story... yet. Wake me up when they finally immanentize the eschaton.
.. if indeed it was hit and if really for the reason implied.
Chile two days ago.
I hope everyone posts informative information so U.S. Senator Joe Lieberman can continue with his fascism.
Yours In Osh,
K. Trout
I'm waiting to read the news "Julian Assange has been arrested"
I think it is more likely we will hear about his tragic fatal auto accident, or suicide by 41 self administered hammer-blows to the head.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
For me both this and the Afghan war wikileaks showed that journalism is working again. It seems that after the failures that led to Iraq the media really is doing a better job. Most everything in the leaks was rumored. Also its nice to see the USA is doing pretty much what it claims to be doing. Of course what's also interesting is no one is even attempting to deny these facts. Wikileaks has become the most reliable source we have on many topics. The government freak out is just what corporate America and then consumer America had to deal with a 15 and 10 years ago. Welcome to the internet age.
The most interesting topic is what this reveals about Pakistan and Afghanistan. Its time to level with everyone involved and I hope the congress has a vigerous debate about Afghan policy this time around.
Time to walk the walk. Close any Amazon or Amazon-owned (Paypal, eBay, Skype, etc.) accounts you may have. Make sure you explain why you are doing so.
Res publica non dominetur
"copyright negotiations largely meet expectations" is misleading. More like, "confirm that the US has been bullying other countries into changing their laws to suit US interests".
Tell them that you support Wikileaks and that you want answers about what the cables reveal the US Goverment is doing. That what the US is doing against Wikileaks in response to this is wrong and unAmerican. The response by the US Government is embarrassing.. it confirms that we really do all of these backhanded actions that the cables say.
https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
I haven't been on the 'Wikileaks is a terrorist organization' bandwagon, understanding that it's important that crimes not be covered up. However, when I read earlier today about the leak of the list of vital US facilities, I had to wonder just what they're thinking. I honestly can't figure out how the release of that benefits the public in any way. Yet it provides information that anyone seeking to harm the US would find quite valuable.
I don't think information should be made public for the sake of making it public. There are some things that are better off kept secret.
Is the fact that for the first time in my life, I am literally afraid of my Govt if I go to see a website and that I fully expect to be traced, put in a database, and labeled as some subversive. For going to a web address.
Former UK Foreign Secretary Sir Malcolm Rifkind said WikiLeaks' actions were "verging on the criminal".
Since when do we arrest people for doing things that are almost illegal?
Instead of these stories being posted when they actually happened and were submitted, we get them into one aggregated post weeks later. Sigh.
Then the editorial is oddly US bashing when most of the cables actually show the US acting responsibly, or at least not worse than any other country.
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
But the summary in the article is very inaccurate. The actual article refernced makes a lot of innuendo, but doesn't actually show any "bullying and manipulating" at all. It says that US diplomats were asked to find evidence of "UN treaty circumvention" and "deals between nations." Well, yes, that seems to be something diplomats should do. And it suggested that the US made some offers of foreign aid in response to countries doing what we want. Well, yes, that's how foreign aid works.
The article seems to be detailing diplomacy as usual.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
This is really a momentous time in history. For the first time since the Cold War ended, there is a serious international political conflict in which everyone everywhere may see that they have some economic or intellectual stake.
After September 11th, I heard many older people in New York say, "I hoped not to live long enough to see this." Well, I'm grateful to be alive now to see this. It is a very important conflict.
Why would anybody be surprised that the USA bullies or manipulates other countries for its own benefit? Its what any top power has done, and what any aspiring power wants to do.
Considering the US is the richest, mightiest, most powerful and most influential country in the history of world, its more of a surprise it hasn't used more of its powers to control the world. The rest of the world should be glad the United States is such a benevolent power and overall force for good in the world.
"In the history of the world?" Uh, how are you measuring that? I can think of at least three other Empires that, by any reasonable standards, have exercised far more control over a far greater geographic area.
I think that most parts of Central and South America have a very different view of the US's benevolence than you do. We have a sixty plus year history down there of overthrowing democratically elected leaders that our corporate overlords don't like. We don't just meddle to spread democracy, we also meddle to protect our economic interests. At the barest whiff that some country in our sphere of influence might be thinking about nationalizing anything, we send in the CIA and military advisers at the very least.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
You mean that Wikileaks exposed the fact that the US used coercive force to get other states to agree to a treaty that the US will benefit from? I mean seriously. it is a common and accepted for of statecraft and diplomacy to use the offer of aid or the threat of less aid to get a state to make an agreement. When it's used, everyone involved knows that it's being used and why. It's no secret. In fact, any university course on international institutions is going to spend time on this very thing. I mean really. Now they are just "exposing" common tools of statecraft that have been used for centuries in an attempt to embarrass the United States. It's starting to get kind of sad. And I know I'm going to take a karma hit for this.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
"Bullying and Manipulating" - Trumped up words for saying our diplomats are engaging in...DIPLOMACY. If they aren't doing whatever they can to make the best possible deals for our country without significantly jeopardizing our international relationships then they aren't doing their jobs. Next people are going to be surprised the used car salesman they bought from didn't convince them to buy that convertible for the purely altruistic reason of wanting to help them out with the ladies.
Is the utter lack of a reason for which they are prosecuting this guy.
He has done nothing illegal, or at least, nothing that is illegal in the US or UK. The BBC article pushes on with those bogus charges, which they perfectly know are crap.
It's a sad world, when the best source for news is 4chan.
I think this was already known publicly. I don't think that we knew the specifics, but in recent times governments have been complaining about that sort of behavior.
Additionally, it doesn't take a genius to see that what the US negotiators are likely looking at is what we've got in the US or more, which pretty strongly suggests that other nations would have to change their laws to suit our interests.
However, it is worth noting that the US exports a lot of IP of various sorts, and we have been ripped off for quite a bit of it over the years. I don't think that justifies the particular provisions we're looking for, but it is hardly a shock that we'd want to deal with that problem.
Particularly in China where misappropriation of our IP is endemic and where the authorities seem to completely ignore the problem.
The new world order now thinks it's cute to dump your employers secrets on the Internet. Of course last week they were all for net privacy and never, never have they ever been for dumping THEIR secrets on the Internet. It's just so cute to be a trend setter...
I've been afraid since 9/11.
I had Arab classmates in grad school that I purposefully lost contact with because I was afraid that if I were associated with them, I could never a get job - at least one with a security clearance (I was trying to get a job with a defense contractor at the time.). My plans never came to be and in the meantime, my Arab ex-classmates are now in upper management at big multinational IT firms.
I'm unemployed with no job prospects and on wife support.
Yup, fear of our Government is hurting our economy and the employment of our country.
Paranoid? My wife has a couple of nurse friends - white women from old American families - who are searched every time at airports because - drum roll - they are married to a Turk and an Arab respectively.
So you ever have candid conversations with coworkers, friends, your spouse and so on about other people? Conversations where you drop pretense, say what you really think, what you really mean. Do you find that these conversations are often beneficial? Now, would you still have that same kind of conversation if you know it would be given, verbatim, to the person(s) you were talking about?
There you go then.
As an example when we get a new student in at work, I've explained to them on various occasions when they were going to be dealing with someone who was an asshole, or someone who is incapable of following simple directions, and so on. I couldn't have those conversations if the person was listening in. I mean there isn't any way I could let a student know they are dealing with an asshole, no matter how diplomatic I was the asshole would get mad. It is important that I can have a candid conversation with the students about this, it makes them able to do their job more effectively. But I couldn't do it if I had to record my conversations and hand them over to the parties involved.
Also it appears that Assanage doesn't want to acknowledge this. He was asked a very good, pointed, question in regards to this (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/robertcolvile/100066669/is-julian-assange-a-coward-or-a-hypocrite/). Rather than provide a defense, give reasons why he feels that the good of his actions outweigh the harm, he just blows it off angrily because he doesn't like the question. Seems like he isn't willing to consider the consequences, the downside of his actions (all actions have a downside, everything has a cost).
If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to hide.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Do the Governments know where Assange is? So I heard he's hopping from one airport to another, do you think that's true? And perhaps also the safest thing for avoiding being arrested?
See http://www.targetofopportunity.com/ see http://www.armyofgod.com/
I forgot the beard, RMS... Apologies
I am absolutely appalled at the general stance that has been taken by most of the conservative media. For some time I have been teetering on the edge of my seat over Sarah Palin and my opinion of her. Now that she has advocated that we declare Wikileaks a terrorist organization I can no longer stomach her. I strongly support the 1st amendment and I strongly support liberty as a value that should be at the pinnacle of every endeavor this nation pursues! We are already ignoring several constitutional precedents with things like TSA, DHS, Federal Reserve, and hate laws.
A secretive government is a corrupt one. If we dealing honestly with other nations then we would have no need for secrecy. Secrecy and privacy for the the individual is all we should be focused on. NOT PRIVACY FOR A CORRUPT GOVERNMENT!!!!!
Bin Laden didn't kill anybody. Neither did Charles Manson.
This was an account with the Swiss Postal service (which also operates as a bank in Switzerland). Since he does not live (permanently) in Switzerland he should not have had an account to begin with so they closed it. He still has access to the funds he just can not accept anymore payments or transfers. I've taken and extended vacation in Switzerland and when I tried to open account (to avoid credit card fees from my US bank) I was told the exact same thing. I'm sure he can walk down to any of the commercial banks and open an account provided he meets the balance requirements.
Assange is knowingly buying and/or accepting stolen information/property. It would be one thing if it were a word-of-mouth transaction or if he was truly whistle-blowing, however it's accepting stolen property with the sole intent to profit from it or to subvert a government or company. His source, for the classified US info anyway, should be brought up on treason charges and the prosecutors should seek the death penalty....most people would do it for the money, but this person(s) leaked information with the sole purpose of undermining the US govt and to do harm to its people and allies.
Talking about a South American country, the leaks about Brazil puts the US in a better light than the public discourse of your government. I was quite surprized by how incompetent your "coutry level PR" is.
Rethinking email
Fucking US diplomats trying to convince people to do things that suit US interests. If only there was another way to solve our disagreements other than diplomacy! Can't someone show us another way?! =P
I liked the slashdigest format. I hope it will catch on.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
Tell them you support WIkileaks :)
Government is the business holding the unique right to employ physical force, or threat thereof, against YOU as their means to an end. Spending our entire lives under the rule of other men, we come to view physical force and threats of physical force as a normal, everyday mode of interaction. The relationship between government and the common man is so engrained in our everyday lives, we don't even think about it anymore. But the most dangerous thing we can do is to forget that our relationship with government is one of coercion, not voluntary association as government endlessly claims. We are NOT the government, and we never have been; otherwise we wouldn't need to fight over it, would we? If "we" are the government, then surely "we" are already perfectly happy with it, right?
Wikileaks is helping to remember (or admit) this critical fact. The elite who run the business of government do NOT work for you and me; they work precisely for themselves, and for that reason it is wise to always distrust government.
not leave people worried that backing WikiLeaks is backing a rapist?
morons you mean. morons who get their news from american mainstream media, and believe them.
....
...
there is no sexual assault. calling something sexual assault only makes it a sexual assault, in fox news. actually any moron watching it may be deserving bullshit, however
assange had sex with two different women. BOTH of the women stated that sex was voluntary. BEFORE, and AFTER the stuff hit the court.
the ironic part is, this issue didnt become a 'policeworthy' issue, until the two women learned that assange slept with both of them. when they learned this, they suddenly decided to seek counsel from the police, and went to police to see what their options are. naturally, the issue was right what the bloodsuckers in usa wanted, and despite the local prosecution dropped the case, their lapdogs in other places in sweden reopened it in their district.
so basically, everything is just two bitches not being able to stomach the fact that a guy they were screwing slept with someone else.
what is appalling is, there being MORONS who buy out the shit american mainstream media and government craps out. what is more appalling is, that there are actually people in a place like slashdot doing that too.
maybe i have too much expectations from this place, in regard to iq and cognitive power level of the participants
Read radical news here
It's not your government you should fear, it's the vigilantes who will target anyone who is "UnAmerican" who you should fear.
Tell that to the guy who blew the whistle and leaked the information. WikiLeaks merely made available what information was given to it. You know, kind of like how whistle blowers used to hand information over to journalists? There are people doing bad things, people willing to take risks to make those bad things come out in the open and then people willing to have a website that shows the bad things that people leaked. You're mad at the wrong people.
that shows how intelligent conservatives are. really, no offense, but one has to be stupid to back something that they doggedly opposed for so long, when just some emotional trigger is invoked.
Read radical news here
We, the people, of the United States of America are the Government. This is our responsibility. This reflects on each of us individually.
Come on folks, somebody cue the 'Blame America' crowd right now! We need more posts about how much the United States is a bully and sucks don't we? Isn't that a sure way for you to feel some smug satisfaction in the bloviated bits many of seem to post here under the guise of enlightenment? Maybe John Perry Barlow and the EFF can say that this is the front line in the war of free speech but it is not. In fact this whole drama filled event and illegal release of material shows a frankness in our diplomats that is refreshing. It seems that most of you that are yelling the loudest for transparency are conveniently forgetting that whomever uploaded this information did not have permission to do so. Would you mind if someone went through your trash or if a house guest went through your bureau and posted your bank accounts, social security number, the like online? Would you mind if they looked at your email or social networking accounts you have and decided that your wife or husband might need to know about those improper chats you had that bordered on infidelity? So for those of you who happen to be the ones who live in Europe or Asia and dislike the United States because no matter how messed up our system is it is still_better_than_yours and you like to think that big brother United States is the sole evil in the world, try looking in your backyard. In most other countries the release of something like would be a death sentence. There sure are not a lot of leaks coming from China, Russia, Iran, or Venezuela. In fact no matter what these "cables" (what the hell, this isn't 1947!) say, it shows our government is at least engaged, and trying to do its job. You can be angry that at least our government is trying to work on our behalf, maybe because yours doesn't. If anything this about freedom of the press, not free speech, and generally freedom of the press is upheld however freedom of the press can be abrogated by governments and held from disclosure when information is sensitive, classified, or in the national interest. So in closing, this release was handled wrongly on so many levels, and in reality it does nothing to help anything in the world. And, Mr. Barlow, I respected you once for being an ok songwriter, however if this is the front line of a war on freedom, then perhaps my quill will remain tucked away. The United States is not perfect, and never has been, but we are a messy, ugly, somewhat open, mostly good, sometimes bad, work in progress.
The time for grandstanding and media whoring is over.
anything happens to assange, or his team, death, injury, arrest, all the information they have will come out uncensored, with names in it. all the operatives, double agents, moles, contacts of all secret agencies, will be out there in the open, uncensored, unremoved.
.... if you get the 'producers' reference.
wikileaks has been removing the names from the documents up till this point. if, anyone does something against him, it will be 'springtime with agents in middle east' or something
Read radical news here
I'm waiting to read the news "Julian Assange has been arrested"
I think it is more likely we will hear about his tragic fatal auto accident, or suicide by 41 self administered hammer-blows to the head.
It's more like "Julian Assange has been found dead of three gunshots to his head, his hands handcuffed behind him. USA rules it suicide."
Which Brazil leak, the one about a lack of US state department support quashing the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet deal, or the fact that you guys weren't so into our war on terror? Or is it something else? There are a lot of leaked documents...
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
This is the first time I've seen something that was published by Wikileaks that I don't think should have been. The summary refers to a cable documenting vital points to America's overall infrastructure. Most of the arguments for Wikileaks seem to say that the government should take responsibility for whatever bad things its representatives have communicated to others. However, this leak is something that I don't see as whistleblowing, or showing the government caught saying something they might regret. No, this is an outline of points of interest to keep the country running smoothly, important facilities spanning the entire globe. I can't see any actual good coming from the leak of this particular document.
When I see people saying the publishing of the cables is compromising US security, this is the first thing I have seen where I would agree.
Makes a case for water-boarding him to find the leak. The personalities stuff is old hat if your brain isn't dead, but releasing national defense related information serves no purpose other than enable terrorist. Perhaps that's the real goal of wikileaks. The really sad part of all this, is it's damaging to the name 'WIKI' which has some superb concepts, such as Wikipedia. The common layman will not separate them.
Unfortunately it has turned out to be little more than Assange's personal attack on the US, much of it uncalled for, unhelpful and recklessly endangering of other people's lives.
Can you back any of this up? First of all, how is this "Assange's personal attack on the US"? How is a view into the workings of international diplomacy for the last two years "unhelpful"? And maybe most importantly, how was the release "recklessly endangering of other people's lives", especially considering that Wikileaks went to the governments beforehand asking about names that shouldn't be published, and in fact did withhold some information?
Any thoughts about the feasibility of Clean Slate and other proposals to "remake" the Internet?
I'm not asking for predictions so much as informed thoughts about what the obstacles are to this actually happening. I used to think the Internet was perfectly anonymous, until I encountered (second-hand) the Chinese renrou sousuo yinqing "human flesh search engine"). Cyberspace is bound to physical servers and wires and antennas; can the majority of these be controlled? Is the political will now accumulating for it to happen?
I don't know what possible good purpose Assange thinks will come out of sharing a list of sensitive sites, but I think that whatever credibility had had going into this is now gone. The guy just hates the U.S. and doesn't seem to care who might be hurt by his grudge. I'm usually the 1st guy to jump on the bandwagon when it comes to sticking it to the man, but this guy is just a jerk.
You are totally blocking my view of the wall. - Dogbert
You mean 60 plus years of defending the country against Soviet expansion? Notice how they're content with letting these leftist nuts take power again now that there isn't an aggressively expansionist nation inching towards them? It's funny, up here in Canada, we have quite a few government monopolies.. and I've yet to hear of CIA or military advisers up here to remove them. Or maybe that's just because they're so damn good, right?
I think that most parts of Central and South America have a very different view of the US's benevolence than you do.
Yes, and these leaks tend to confirm that view. In particular they reveal the US State Department was entirely aware that the recent coup in Honduras was illegal. Of course, their public statements were rather different - they tried to obfuscate as much as possible, while providing funding that US law forbade them from giving due to the coup, because it was in their political interest to see the then-President kicked out.
Unfortunately it has turned out to be little more than Assange's personal attack on the US
so your problem is, u.s. being attacked ? then which of the following facts you would like to choose as a counter argument :
a) u.s. is the biggest perpetrator of shit, and whatever happens outside russian, chinese influence zone, is of america's doing. if there is any shit outside russia, china, it will be because of usa. as the leaks show.
b) u.s. sources leaked many documents. what is coming out, are u.s. documents. if you want to see some russian documents, please kindly go become a russian citizen, start working in a top secret office, then leak those documents.
c) it doesnt matter flying fuck which country is being 'attacked', and whether the person doing that 'attack' has a personal grudge against that country. TRUTH IS TRUTH. there is no preference in regard to truth. you cant say 'oh, but you have exposed too much truth about x, stop now' -> this is not a moronic pissing contest. truth, is truth, in whatever amount, against whatever it is exposed. it doesnt matter whether the one exposing has a 'personal agenda' either. TRUTH IS STILL TRUTH.
much of it uncalled for, unhelpful
unhelpful to united states i reckon. i dont give a flying fuck about that. you know, approx 200+ other countries of the world, do not give a fuck either. 7 billion - 250 million people do not give a flying fuck about it too. uncalled for ? well, i find the exposure of filthy plans, bul
Read radical news here
What is happening to him is why super heroes wear a mask...
People keep saying this, but how would imprisoning him discredit anything that wikileaks has published, or keep other sites from doing the very same thing?
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Where? Certainly not Fox, National Review, et. alia.
Best Slashdot Co
When you say "the people" do you mean the peoples of China? Which people are the people? The people who are gang members? Homeless people? Prisoners?
Oh you mean the people whose names might be in that insurance policy that Assange keeps threatening to release?
First off, it's an insult to rape victims around the world to call this "rape". "Rape" in Sweden is what "sex offence" is quickly becoming in the US, where it is conflating serious crimes with non-issues like teenagers texting pics to their boyfriends. But the media loves it because it's hard to escape the stigma of being labeled a sex offender.
So let's see what we have here about Assange's "rape" case. Let me know where you think the "sexual assault" happened. And explain to me how can you turn that into an international arrest warrant to be handled by UK's "serious crimes" division.
The Swedes are making it up as they go along
"Apparently having consensual sex in Sweden without a condom is punishable by a term of imprisonment of a minimum of two years for rape. That is the basis for a reinstitution of rape charges against WikiLeaks figurehead Julian Assange that is destined to make Sweden and its justice system the laughing stock of the world and dramatically damage its reputation as a model of modernity."
Government monopolies are fine, as long as the "right people" own them. It's when "the people" own and control them that we send in the goons. I guess you didn't notice that we DID try to stage another coup down in Venezuela recently? And we ordered Morales thrown out of the Bolivian congress, which he was. Too bad for us he was then elected president, eh?
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Ok, I'm all for freedom of information, but the places list has me befuddled. It accomplishes nothing except show what the US thinks it needs to protect better. Now add on, that the guy who wants to show all this information (Assange) is hiding from an arrest warrant. I go back to the old adage there is nothing such as altruism. Everyone, including Assange, is looking for an edge to gain position in the world, just like the mainstream media, and the governments out there. You think Assange doesn't want power, then you are just kidding yourself.
Just realise the reality of the situation..... There is no reality.
first, 'swedish police department' doesnt deal justice. they implement prosecutors' orders, which is a part of judiciary. just like in any country.
/. uids and log off from the site.
second, one prosecutor dropped the case, another prosecutor, mysteriously, DESPITE it has been out of its jurisdiction and already handled, reopened the case. then, they had issued a warrant for assange TO GET HIS TESTIMONY. not to arrest him, not to do anything else. but interestingly, despite they were obliged to contact assange by swedish law, and the exact location of assange was known to entire swedish judiciary, that prosecutor's office had opted out to VIOLATE swedish law, by not contacting assange. they just directly went to press, saying that we issued a warrant to have him come here and issue a testimony.
then, interpol took that, and turned that testimony warrant to an ARREST warrant.
in the meantime, fox news and all those other news channels in america, who are used to fool morons, has been pumping up 'rape' bullshit to morons. the morons who believed them of course.
and now today someone comes up saying that rape charges came out of swedish 'police department'. wow. judiciary in sweden, apparently changes day to day, by what bullshit fox serves americans.
the 2 idiots who modded you up, please hand in your
Read radical news here
Really? How is it that we are more interested in taking down Wikileaks founder Assange than say... Osama Bin Laden, who *actually* is a terrorist?
Why is it that anyone the USA doesn't like gets branded as a terrorist? Doesn't that worry you? How far away is the day that free speach is labeled a terrorist act?
I mean, seriously -- right now in China, you go to jail for speaking out against the government and we then proclaim that China isn't "free".
But in the "free" USA, if you speak out against the government, Amazon disowns you, the government *wants* to arrest you and your website is taken down. hrrmmmm. While China may be more extreme, the basic policies between the USA and China are not all that different. Which is to say, if you're a rabble-rouser, or you in any way embarass us, we'll take you down.
I am concered that I see posts on slashdot saying that Assange needs to be treated as a traitor. Go after Robert Novack first. If the media were doing its job, we wouldn't need Wikileaks.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
-Particularly in China where misappropriation of our IP is endemic and where the authorities seem to completely ignore the problem.
It isn't entirely clear that they consider it a problem.
VLC Remote for iPhone and Android
Here's where I'll be reviewing the cables for swpat stuff:
http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Cablegate_info_on_software_patents
Is all IP-related stuff really in the cables tagged "KIPR"? Or is that just a generality? Can cables have multiple tags or is the tag only for the "main" topic of the cable? (I mean, if a cable talks mostly about some other topic but mentions patents, will it have only the other topic's tag or will it also have the KIPR tag?)
Expert in software patents or patent law? Contribute to the ESP wiki!
CYBER-BULLYING!! *queue outrage*
Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
When modding "Informative", please make sure it both has a source and IS actually informative.
I would seriously like to know how many government officials are hired to sway opinion in this thread. Moderate this +1 funny if you're paid to astroturf, restrain from modding if anything else. I don't think Slashdot keeps moddingIP logs.
Can I light a sig ?
Any so-called "leak" site that gets national attention in the mass media is unlikely to have genuine leaks, only PR tricks. If CIA types wanted this guy shut up he would have been shut up immediately and without a mention in the press. Right now he's useful.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." - William Casey, former CIA director, at his first staff meeting in 1981
"Ninety-five percent of the work of intelligence agencies around the world is disinformation and deception." - Andreas von Bülow, former parliamentary official responsible for the budget for Germany's intelligence agencies, December 2001
"Well, you see, the deceased had a very thick head and a high tolerance for pain. Even so, we can tell that by the thirteenth blow, the deceased must have been getting very dizzy. That is why it looks as though there was a tremendous struggle. You can see where he must have tripped and crashed through the table, here, and gotten himself back up, only to hurtle through the drywall into the bathroom, here. He then tried to clean the blood off of his head by repeatedly dunking his head in the toilet, so he could aim his hammer blows better in the bathroom mirror. Unfortunately, he must have become disoriented at this point and repeatedly smashed his head into the mirror, at which point he decided to leave the bathroom and make his way to the balcony, where he gave up on bludgeoning himself to death, tied his hands behind his back, and jumped over the edge. Suicide, obviously, what else could it be?"
You mean 60 plus years of defending the country against Soviet expansion?
So, democracy is only for those people who vote the "right way" (i.e. not for commies)?
I checked out wikileaks about a year or so ago. Back then it actually looked like a typical wiki and contained all sorts of leaked documents about scandals, companies and governments from all over the world. Here's an example: http://web.archive.org/web/20080113120942/wikileaks.org/wiki/Wikileaks
I checked it out again today and it now looks more like a blog than a wiki. All I could see was 5 links: "Cablegate: 250,000 US Embassy Diplomatic Cables", "All released leaks archived", "War Diary: Iraq War Logs", "War Diary: Afghanistan War Logs", and "Video: Collateral Murder."
I find it interesting that 4 of the links seem to be directed at implicating or embarassing the US and the rest of the site content is now a bunch of torrent files in a 7z file.
Is this related to recent DDOS attacks on their site? Can a regular wikileaks reader shed some light on this?
With the Paypal DDOS, the attempt to characterize this as terrorism has widened from targeting Assange to targeting everyone supporting the movement.
Those behind the DDOS attack are doing the work of the police, or, I think more and more, ARE the police. In any case, there is absolutely no way of knowing whom is really behind that, or who is taking over, and when.
DDOS attacks have consistently been condemned on Slashdot. Still, it is assumed they are done by anarchist teenagers. I believe this less and less.
Considering the US is the richest, mightiest, most powerful and most influential country in the history of world
Have you read a snigle history book? I mean, a book that relate history older than 100 years?
Write boring code, not shiny code!
looking through the leaks for 12/5, specifically the ones from the american embassy in germany, i find the names of the german companies involved with trading with iran redacted (name replace by xxxxxx). who would want to do this? worried about corporate vengeance?
I don't want to give the impression that the Molybdenum-99 story is one of the wikileaks leaks. It may be, but I don't know. The story I head on the radio had to do with the fact that some team in South Africa invented a way to produce Molybdenum-99 without needing to use highly-enriched uranium.
There is no such thing as luck. Luck is nothing but an absence of bad luck.
Did anyone else read the headline as a followup by the govt? First they disable the DNS for Wikileaks; now they are digging up their cables to prevent them from having access physically!
I'd show you, but I'm all out of nukes.
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
One one hand we have the group of people elected, or appointed by those elected, under the terms of a constitution which begins "We The People".
On the other hand, we have a group of self appointed, possibly reckless people who serve only an ideology regardless of the practical consequences.
When these two groups come into conflict, I will back the one that is representative of the people - whose representatives are elected by the people, and has checks and balances between it's own branches. Not the one that acts out of its own whims and, in fact, is already fractious.
History tells us that there can be no such thing as democracy as long as we have individuals who are empowered to rule over us. Power corrupts. So it should be worth noting that we now have the ability to dispense with empowered leaders and yet not devolve into anarchy, mob rule, or demagoguery. It is called Metagovernment, and it is absolutely fascinating that so few of the so-called technophiles here on Slashdot are working on it.
Don't we care? Is there some reason why we don't see a need to promote open source governance? Is it because it is not perfect? Is that really a good enough reason to let governments continue to stomp on citizens?
The US exporting useless IP that other countries find a nuisance and a tax is nobody's fault but their own. If they want to stop being ripped off, they should go back to doing real manufacturing and quit trying to bully other countries to change their laws. If they do that, they may even have a chance of competing with China in the long term.
It's an excellent cross reference to see what's really going on in any country on that list. If the US suddenly gives a shit about the Congo, check the news. The mine they rely on is now under threat. If next door there are millions of people being hacked to death with machetes, and we don't care, check the list. There is no useful resource we are exploiting. It's to illustrate that the United States does not operate on principle, but on self-interest, as every state does.
Unfortunately, Assange seems to be overplaying his hand. His only way out of prison time is to reveal something truly new and corrupt enough to get world outrage focused on the United States instead of himself. Then he will have the international support he needs to stay a free man.
He's either building up to this moment, or his arrogance has done him in.
Actually, another tactic may be that he's forcing them to breach the poison pill contract he has established. If he gets picked up and releases the encrypted file keys, it could unleash holy terror worldwide as all of the information they have redacted so far is suddenly unleashed. If there's enough in there to cause a slew of double agents to be exposed internationally, then he'll again have a better chance of staying alive if not free, and he will have collapsed the covert policies that have been running the world since the 20th Century.
Yep - just as freedom of expression is usually reserved for those who agree with the government.
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
If you really advocate this then I want to see you follow it. You need to speak candidly with everyone, all the time. You need to keep no secrets from anyone, ever. If you aren't willing to do that, and I would be surprised if you are (I sure am not) then you need to ask yourself why you think it should apply to everyone else.
Please remember that governing without secrets means exposing the names and addresses of everyone in witness protection, opening up all criminal investigations as they are on going, opening up all people's tax records for all to see and so on. These are all pieces of information the government has, that it keeps secrets. They'd all have to be public if you want "governing without secrets. Period."
What it comes down to is we can debate what secrets the government should and shouldn't have. Clearly they shouldn't be able to keep anything and everything secret. However it is likewise clear that not everything should be completely open.
"It inevitably prompts the question as to exactly what positive benefit Wikileaks was intending in releasing this document [the list of sites of 'vital importance' to the USA], he adds."
Yeah, this. I don't get it. Why release this stuff?
The stuff before was routine diplomatic chatter that sometimes included some amazingly frank but often unsurprising information. Some Saudis are providing plenty of funds for terrorism world-wide? Yeah, like that's a big surprise. China is almost as frustrated with North Korea as the rest of the world? Yeah, no big surprise there either. In fact, it's reassuring to know that. There is loads of other useful information that has been released, including some really distasteful and dirty stuff (like pressuring the German government not to prosecute a CIA team that illegally detained, transported, and interrogated the wrong person) and that is good to know. The public should be informed. But to release a list of specific sites of strategic importance? I don't see the "whistleblower" or journalistic value in doing something like that. It's like releasing a ready-made "hit list" for potential terrorists to pick from, and I don't see any other useful reason for doing so. Yeah, there is a lot of additional information that needs to be known to make use of it, and a lot of the information is fricking obvious to anyone with half a brain (e.g., yes, cobalt is a strategic metal, and where exactly do they mine that stuff anyway? Or, yes, a freaking HUGE amount of electrical power and natural gas is imported to the US from Canada, and interrupting that supply would be bad), but why make the job easy for them?
As far as I'm concerned, this is crossing a line from "important for the public to know and inconvenient for the politicians -- not particularly harmful" to "harmful with no particular rationale for release". What journalistic value is there in releasing this stuff? So we can debate whether this or that mine is more important? Or whether this or that submarine cable is more important? I can't understand what WikiLeaks or the journalists that subsequently published the list were thinking. I think it is a mistake.
The story of the US empire isn't so much of officially taking over territory as it is one of making darn sure that the person in charge of other countries is under our control. That's why most of the bad guys we're fighting now are ex-CIA assets.
Central and South America are precisely the sort of thing I'm referring to. It would be reasonable to argue that the US empire had at its height control over the vast majority of Latin America as well as a good portion of Asia and Africa. For instance, you could consider Iran to be part of the US empire before 1979. Ditto for Chile before Pinochet was ousted. And so on.
I am officially gone from
hahahahahaha.
... who did kidnappings ? agents, spies. who is effecting the occupation as of now, agents, spies, soldiers, government officials ....
...
who fabricated the bullshit that allowed bush & co to invade iraq ? agents, spies
so these are innocent then
i know it. because this is the official declaration of wikileaks, and the reason for encrypted insurance files all over the internet. that file, is whole file, uncensored.
Read radical news here
You should note that Wikileaks redacts their releases and gets advice from more mainstream sources on what to redact. If that's as fringe as crashing planes into buildings, I really don't want to hear your opinions on any news source. Most of these docs are innocuous in any case. "Tell us about President so-and-so" is what most of them end up being.
Well it seems they are doing a poor job of redaction and/or not getting advice from reputable mainstream sources, for example the release of sites supply critical medicines. Was that really necessary?
The Associated Press reports:
In the message, marked "secret," Clinton asked U.S. diplomatic posts to help update a list of sites around the world "which, if destroyed, disrupted or exploited, would likely have an immediate and deleterious effect on the United States."
The list was considered so confidential, the posts were advised to come up with it on their own: "Posts are not/not being asked to consult with host governments in respect to this request," Clinton wrote.
The locations cited in the diplomatic cable from U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton range from undersea communications lines to suppliers of food, medicine and manufacturing materials.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_wikileaks_secret_sites
Everyone who lives in democracies outside the US (heck, might as well try inside the US too) - please contact your local politicians - especially those who support or claim to support personal freedom - and ask them to set up Wikileaks mirrors. This will serve the dual purpose of 1) bringing to the fore the freedom of speech issue by bringing in parties with strong legal protections and the resources to back them up (there must be some opposition party in your country willing to score points off the government in this way), and 2) letting you sort out who the hypocrites are and who is really willing to stand behind free speech. There are days when it seems the quote attributed to Voltaire about disagreeing with what people say but willing to fight to the death for their freedom to say it appears in the sigfile of every douchebag pseudo-libertarian out there - this is where we find out who really believes in these principles.
If you do live in the U.S., please consider contacting your local Tea Party rep - I know, the politicians who have taken control of this supposedly anti-establishment movement at the top are fascist control freaks, but some of the grassroots may have more principles.
All diplomats are in the intelligence business. That's how it works. Diplomats report back to their countries what goes on. Goes even further than that in that spies are often covered as diplomats since a diplomatic passport makes for immunity to prosecution (you can kick them out but not charge them). Further, the State Department has its own intelligence agency: INR, Intelligence and Research.
You might not like it, but that is how it is and has been that way for a long time. While I wouldn't say it is advertised, it isn't as though it is a secret.
anything happens to assange, or his team, death, injury, arrest, all the information they have will come out uncensored, with names in it. all the operatives, double agents, moles, contacts of all secret agencies, will be out there in the open, uncensored, unremoved.
Then in fact the reason for his death would more than likley be someone who wanted to see the un-redacted documents. Governments today are too gentrified to kill someone as in the public spotlight as Assange.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Could we be seeing the beginnings of collective efforts that become so powerful that superpowers try to fight them... and LOSE? We talk about Chinese control of the internet, and worry about net neutrality, but I wonder if we're not all sitting on a sleeping giant, one that's already grown past a point of no return and has yet to truly swing its club.
I actually do try to live my life this way, excepting omission, which is still something I'm working on weeding out. It isn't easy, but it only takes a tiny amount of discipline applied consistently. But the end result is, you're not going to catch me being two-faced unless I'm being weak. And I'm working on the latter part.
We ought to operate the government the same way. We should not tell our allies one thing to their face and say something different in cables behind their backs. Vis-a-vis enemies, as well. We can be completely honest at all times, again with a bit of discipline and constant application.
As for witness protection, so be it. Those lists WILL be leaked someday anyway. We need to redesign the system to tolerate it, or we'll have their blood on our hands. That's the final evaluation of it, and there's genuinely no room for debate. The only, tiny hope is that the people in the protection program will die of natural causes before the information age catches up to that system. And God help their kids when it does.
So, in that light, the only secret needing kept by the government should be the last few they are working on eliminating. It does take time and effort, but this is our government. It can be designed as we wish it to be.
If you were really afraid of that why are you posting here? Are you from the state department, trying to scare people from viewing them? Sorry pal, not going to work. They are perfectly safe.
The fact is that nothing will happen to anyone who views this. The fact that the guy who leaked them isn't even in any real trouble yet should in fact be incredible reassuring that reading them will bring you no harm.
The only person really in trouble currently is the leaker. Some would like Assange to be but he's going to be free to do what he likes, no matter how some in the government grumble about him.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
With all the things that have been happening with regards to this story, I imagine you will start to see a new paradigm regarding Government and the Internet. Law regarding the internet, especially international, is largely non-existent, and even more so regarding the resources to enforce such laws. The laws that do exist are reactionary, and usually are extremely specific. The web has become more complex in terms of its capabilities that current law seems like me at my senior prom: awkward and inadequate.
Look at it this way: With probably just a USB stick, worth the price of a big mac, and a gmail account, someone just shook the entire world of international politics (An exaggeration, but you get the point). How do governments, who have largely treated the Internet with a laissez faire attitude, possibly police it, short of taking control and monitoring the entire web? That option, while not impossible, seems extremely unlikely.
If nothing else, this event is an awakening call to those in power: The internet can give-ith, and can take-ith away.
The story of every successful empire isn't so much of officially taking over territory as it is one of making darn sure that the person in charge of other countries is under our control.
Fixed that for you. And even if we figure in all the regimes where we influence things, we are in no way the equal of the Roman or British empires, in terms of our world wide influence.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
There have been a couple of posts now saying "consensual sex without a condom is rape." Which is completely not what happened. What happened was there was agreement to sex with a condom. Once that condition is no longer met you lose the consent.
He made it the list of potential candidates. Don't forget to rate him. It might make prosecuting him into oblivion a bit harder.
Nothing in this list in unknown or surprising ...
The associated press article says otherwise. It specifically states that some medical suppliers (ex. vaccines, anti-venom, etc) were not widely know.
That FTFY is factually incorrect.
Some examples of empires that would typically and frequently take over other people's territories: Roman, Mongol, Russian, British, and Spanish.
A US empire that did similar to those guys would have had as official Territories places like the Philippines, Chile, Nicaragua, Iraq, Iran, and Guatemala. Those territories would have much the same role in the US government as Puerto Rico.
I am officially gone from
Maybe so, it's still not rape and very far from rape. Should not warrant an international arrest effort. In fact it is quite ridiculous it's been allowed to progress to that level.
If the girl I picked up last night and "agreed" to have sex based on that she looked great, can I claim rape and have her jailed for TWO FUCKING YEARS because I realized in the morning it was all makeup and padding and therefore nullifying my "consent" ?
The quote in that article is quite telling. In Sweden you really need a lawyer to find out if you've been raped.
The ones where the US is pressing Brazil to aplly terrorist charges on real terorists. I (and nearly everybody here) assumed the terrorists were made up.
Of course, charging people of "terrorism" is still bad. It is just less bad when the terrorists are real.
Rethinking email
What journalistic value is there in releasing this stuff?
If it has no value, how come the leak is making it to the headlines every day?
You can add blackmail to the queue!
another insurance. if he gets killed, governments will be held responsible. especially, u.s.. it will directly put u.s. govt in the place of a total oppressor in the eyes of 7 billion in this planet (minus 250 m). and there will be no remedying that. all the behavior set, choices of all the world people will change.
Read radical news here
anything happens to assange, or his team, death, injury, arrest, all the information they have will come out uncensored, with names in it. all the operatives, double agents, moles, contacts of all secret agencies, will be out there in the open, uncensored, unremoved.
Then in fact the reason for his death would more than likley be someone who wanted to see the un-redacted documents
The "insurance policy" idea also assumes that the wikileaks staff is in some sort of suicide pact. More likely it will function like a bully and his gang, take out the bully and the gang backs down.
When the Swiss [banks] turn their backs on you, you're pretty much hosed.
""In the history of the world?" Uh, how are you measuring that? I can think of at least three other Empires that, by any reasonable standards, have exercised far more control over a far greater geographic area."
I think US military technology and reach probably says more about its power than the landmass the US controls. There is no other nation in the history of the world with as much power as the US presently has. That might change soon but it is silly to imply that older Empires employing lesser technology somehow surpass US "power" simply because they conquered more land hundreds of years ago.
Julian Assange has access to the funds - great. Did he set anyone else up as a signatory or were they just planning on using internet/telephone banking?
Because if the bank won't hand the money back unless and until Assange himself shows up to claim it, it may as well be gone. Let's face it, he ain't flying anywhere now.
Right, like the Democratic elections that brought forth Hitler. Democracy is not magical. If people vote in leaders who aid a foreign government that has thousands of ICBM's targeting your city and has repeatedly threatened to "crush" you in some way or another, it's your responsibility, in defense of your nation, to act accordingly.
That's funny; why do they still let you speak then?
While the treatment of WikiLeaks and Julian Assange is important, it's USUALLY misdirection, to divert public attention.
How effective is the (replacment) EO 13526 http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2010/pdf/E9-31418.pdf or http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information
Was it followed by State and DoD? Have NIST/FISMA security guidelines been properly implemented (even yet)?
Are there actual timing considerations, when-leaked, vs when EO 13526 went into force? (Signed: December 29, 2009)
WHY would there be no "alarms" when a PFC accesses an enormous number of documents?
Someplace between a half-million and 3 million people with full access to these documents BEFORE they got to WikiLeaks?
What about "the State Department's Risk Scoring tool"?
STREUFERT: "...the continuous monitoring has something that is an assessment capacity of the organization to deal with outside risk that is never longer than a month and scanning data in fact could be as fresh as 24 hours old." (but are they looking at the RIGHT THINGS)?
Refs: http://gcn.com/articles/2010/03/03/rsa-futue-of-fisma.aspx
http://www.govinfosecurity.com/podcasts.php?podcastID=276 [John Streufert, State Department Deputy CIO and CISO]
http://www.darkreading.com/database-security/167901020/security/news/224200410/ninth-state-department-insider-found-guilty-of-illegal-database-access.html [Ninth State Department Insider Found Guilty Of Illegal Database Access - Mar 25, 2010]
For investigation:
http://www.state.gov/m/pri/rls/plans/146301.htm
> For example, weekly reports to senior management are now routed through Microsoft
> SharePoint websites instead of by paper or individual emails. -- August 30, 2010
In case you think this is "picking on Microsoft" ...
http://www.federaltimes.com/article/20101205/IT03/12050306/
> Besides limiting access to Net Centric Diplomacy, the State Department has recently
> suspended SIPRNet access to two classified sites, ClassNet and SharePoint, according
> to the White House. In an apparent reference to those actions, State Department
> spokesman P.J. Crowley said last week that access to diplomatic cables has been narrowed
> across the government "for the time being."
I did consider our military and technological might, but I feel that it must be considered in the context of other extant powers' military and technological might. As the "What have the Romans done for us" bit in Life of Brian humorously demonstrates, the Romans had a fairly large technological edge themselves. We have about the same edge in military power over our rivals that the British did at the height of their empire.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
What's wrong with trying to stage a coup against a tyrant that explicitly threatens your nation, its citizens and its businesses? Nothing. I guess that's how you join the league of the "Wrong" people. I've never seen an industry in Canada threaten to destroy the US or capitalism; so maybe you're onto something.
"The People" are not your favourite little bands of South American thugs, believe it or not. The people are broader and what happens when the opposition movements in those countries flee? Whose productivity will "The People" leech off?
I don't have a favorite band of thugs. The bands of thugs were all installed by the US. I was talking about free and fair democratic elections of people like Salvadore Allende in Chile.
Who explicitly threatened our nation, it's citizens, or businesses?
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
After all, if these documents were copyrighted, well, there would be all sorts of treaties and legal tools available to go after Wikileaks. And there isn't anything that really stops Congress from changing US copyright law to include all classified documents produced by the US Government.
If you only care about your own country, I guess it's a fine attitude to take. Just don't be all up in arms about 9/11 when it comes (and it will come with this attitude).
What's your real name? Address? Social Security number? Checking account number? Sexual preference? Birthdate? Do you have any STDs? Post a nude photo on the internet. What's your credit score? Where do you work?
Writers imply. Readers infer.
So we've gone from not being two-faced to living as a celebrity?
Besides, every single one of my coworkers knows all of the above, save the nudity, and that's probably to their benefit.
I've already stated that we need to be as honest as possible at all times, as individuals, and that this ramps up significantly for governments. Both types of parties need to strive for as few as possible.
there is an entire crew running the datacenter. if assange doesnt assure them regularly - voila.
im sure similar setups have been put in place for all crew. if everyone vanished from sight, there would be some random person somewhere, unknown, releasing the key.
Read radical news here
If the purportedly democratic nations of the world that are supposedly governed by the people and meant to be representing the people are unable to protect a citizen of a purportedly democratic nation - a citizen under an international arrest warrant because of the prosecution's nonacceptance of his offer of testimony that was given in accordance with legally established and legally accepted methods, a citizen charged with a fabricated crime consisting of a nonsensical redefinition of rape and nothing else, anywhere - and if they instead not only turn a blind eye but encourage and perhaps even abet his demise, then they are just as guilty and not democratic at all.
Of course the government of the United States of America is not among such democratic nations nor is the current USA a republic in anything but name, that is by now abundantly clear. Australia? Switzerland? Sweden? The United Kingdom? France? The way things seem to going they might not be any better than the US.
The damning evidence of the cables is in the massive reaction that is taking place, and keep in mind that little has been released so far.
What can we do? How can we join the fight for freedom? There's the insurance file at http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5723136/b9f0899e6537431b462ffcb16d9398ad but what else can one do? I am asking for suggestions. The bank accounts are being closed, the drop-off box revoked. How can anyone willing participate in this modern fight against blatant but highly polished totalitarianism?
One cannot sustain freedom without responsibility nor can one sustain responsibility without freedom.
Actually that's not why he was charged with rape. The rape charge is by the second woman, where he allegedly ignored her appeals to stop after the condom broke during sex.
Become your own source: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5723136/b9f0899e6537431b462ffcb16d9398ad (use the magnet link).
Any conservative against the current "cablegate" is a conservative in name only. I'm a "rightist" myself (but not easily defined as a conservative, more of a mix of things).
Not just any conservatives but any libertarians or any liberals or any and all against totalitarianism are fakes if they do not stand against what is happening.
One cannot sustain freedom without responsibility nor can one sustain responsibility without freedom.
So if you’re Al-Qaeda, do you support Assange by donating funds to encourage his efforts, or do you assassinate him, leave credit for it assumed to be pro-Western interests, then watch what gets released in the thermonuclear insurance file?
And did Assange really put dangerous information in the file, or is it a bluff? If he’s already dead, would he really want harm and loss of life to befall many through the release of unredacted dangerous information?
Or would the release of the encryption keys simply play the world’s greatest RickRoll, ever?
What a curiously bureaucratic interpretation. You don't lose consent by a technicality. Both partners consent to have sex with the understandings of the risks involved. If the condom breaks it's simply "consensual sex, with a condom, which happens to break".
Given a choice between the most damaging items being leaked slowly, a few at a time, every week, for the next several months
vs. killing off Assange (or whatever) and causing the whole thing to go public all at once...
They might choose the latter. Sure it would be bad for a little while, but eventually it would blow over and people would lose interest.
I'd really like to comment on this but I afraid of the consequences. I'd like to work someday and possibly travel to the US. I'd rather just pretend I don't know what's happening. Besides, none of this really affects me. It's about the past and from where I stand today nothing from any of the actions they have taken has changed my life in any way. At least now yet.
Do I misunderstand or are you saying you recognize the totalitarianism for what it is but would like to keep enjoying the bread and circus for as long as it lasts? I'm not going to call you any names, your attitude is very understandable. Totalitarianism is scary. I became afraid of my own supposedly democratic nation yesterday (not the US), it was illuminating, likely overblown (see what I did there?) but still illuminating.
Honestly without malice: to stay safe you should not make the kind of post that as you have, you should carefully not vote for anyone who has such notions, not sign up for or support anything at all because everything can be misconstrued, never discuss things with friends or acquaintances. The list goes on forever no matter how absurd, you might want to steal, memorize, and burn, a copy of 1984 to acclimatize yourself. I'm not being mean, to be "safe" requires such efforts and in addition simple luck because everyone is a criminal and now everyone is also a terrorist.
Your situation is also the main component of how totalitarianism always works, no matter if it is a boot covered in blood and shit pressing down on your face, or instead; a fashionable beautiful and highly polished stiletto heel pinning down your every move, always, for you and any descendants for eternity, unless finally enough people rebel if at all possible.
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5723136/b9f0899e6537431b462ffcb16d9398ad is all I can do right now as far as I know but certainly much more is required. And this is no longer just about some diplomatic gossip, it is no longer just about the US. It is about freedom. It is about the US, Switzerland, France, Australia, the United Kingdom, Sweden, and maybe the entire western world, maybe absolutely every "democratic" nation that was meant to stand for something better than the rest that clearly aren't democratic. It is about the future of the world as we have known it and the ideals we and any representatives were supposed to have and cherish.
One cannot sustain freedom without responsibility nor can one sustain responsibility without freedom.
It's not rape because he didn't have a condom, it's rape because he had a condom on that broke during intercourse, the woman claims she told him to stop, and he didn't. In my book, if the woman tells you to stop and you don't, then yes, that does qualify as rape. Of course to this date only Assange and the woman in question know what actually happened that night, but there's definitely grounds for the police to suspect him of rape.
---
In this particular instance, I do believe that this has more to do with his connection to Wikipedia than his connection with these two Swedish women, but rape trials are hard enough on the defendant without that kind of stories being spread around.
The first real infowar has started. Who knew that it'd be governments vs. the people?
Which side are you on?
Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
It happens all the time.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
The point is, someone agrees to do have sex with you but you need to use a condom. It breaks and you continue, that's no longer consensual. It's not about technicalities, it's about basic courtesy and respect.
Talk to us about being consistently honest after you have kissed a girl.
People as naive as you should refrain from commenting on politics.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
"copyright negotiations largely meet expectations" is misleading. More like, "confirm that the US has been bullying other countries into changing their laws to suit US interests".
... to suit US corporations interests. Having US governments as puppets to do force corporations agenda on all the world speaks pretty well of US corporations (is a bright, evil plan) and pretty bad on US government and country in general. Making aware voters of what their government is doing under their name is justification enough for defending Wikileaks.
And they're cheering it on...
A conservative could be getting raped by a grizzly bear, and they'd cheer it on as long as it meant that a hippie was going to get punched in the face.
Hell, make the grizzly one certain Mama Grizzly, and I bet you'd get even more enthusiasm out of the crowd.
(shudder...)
Have you read a snigle history book?
No, but I have read a sniglet book.
[ducks]
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Yeah, this is how that "vigorous" debate will go...
SENATOR ASSHAT: So, it seems the Afghan situation is far more complex than it initially seemed...
SENATOR LIEBERMAN: TERRORISM!
SENATOR STUPID: Right then, it's all settled. I'm off to lunch.
So, it's one guy debating himself? Maybe I'm just being overly cynical, but that all sounds like the same guy (Asshat / Lieberman / Stupid)...
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
I read the cable, actually disappointed, I could create such a list after a few hours of googling.
The associated press reported that many things on the list were not surprising but that some of the medical supplier were not widely known at all. Are you confident that having seen the answer already your googling went a bit easier than it would have otherwise been?
:-)
More importantly, isn't it wrong to give such answers to the bad guys regardless of how available the information is? Again, this information seems to serve no good purpose, but possibly evil ones. What is the point of publicizing the source of a rare vaccine?
Its also amusing to see your argument being made on slashdot. Normally when someone ask how to solve a homework problem or how to do their job they get flamed.
So feeling violated, the woman in question held a party for him and tweeted her friends how great a guy he is.
Then she learned about the other woman and both set to get back at him.
No matter how you look at it, this isn't worth two lines at the bottom of Sunday's "what else happened in our neighborhood" page. The fact that it's been allowed to get this far is a testament of how unequal is the balance of justice between men and women.
Not to mention that the richest, mightiest, most powerful and influential country in the world right now is China, the country that holds the majority of the United States' debt. Hell, some of the leaked cables actually confirm this. It's sad that so many American's actually believe the country is still the alpha dog of the world.
"From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
"Apparently having consensual sex in Sweden without a condom is punishable by a term of imprisonment of a minimum of two years for rape."
And how exactly do they keep the Swedish population from extinction? The birth of a baby itself would be evidence of a crime...
posting with a real userid, and showing some spine first ? and he says 'pansy minded'. you dont even have the guts to get a userid and post with your own identity. wimp.
Read radical news here
i was saying that, there are morons out there lacking reading comprehension. however, apparently, you have missed that too.
Read radical news here
I think I may be more disturbed by the government orders to large numbers of people to not read the Wikileaks materials than anything else.
When they start telling people not to read the NY Times it's going over the edge of stupid.
It may be lesser problem to live under an evil government than a stupid one. I really wonder where the pronouncements are coming from?
End MGM. Get prospective parents of boys to Google: Men do complain
Even diplomats who might side with Assange's politics are pissed at his willingness to burn the house down in order to get rid of a rat.
Problem is that the whole house seems to be run by rats. Big, fat rats. And some call it "realism" and approve of it. Disgusting.
Well, Brazil chose to prosecute those people for actual crimes, such as murder and drug trafficking, not for made-up ones like terrorism which is best defined as "you did something illegal to make a political statement and that made us scared and angry".
That's a fairly reasonable position, especially from a country that has just recognized Palestine as an independent state within its 1967 borders. I don't see Kuwait or Saudi Arabia chasing down people within their borders who are financing Al Qaeda as accessories to murder.
Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
You left out the one significant fact that blows your argument. The condom broke and the woman objected to further sex. Apparently, according to her, he continued. That's where the consensual stopped. Consent is retractable. Sweden's big on personal autonomy, however blue-balled some may be. Typical guy blindspot.
Bob isn't a government official, so why must he, as an individual with only those rights and powers granted to an individual, have to act as he asks someone who is granted power over him and other individuals, is asking?
If you really advocate individuals have to treated like institutions and governments, then give them the rights of these institutions and governments:
1) powers of arrest and detainment
2) powers of secrecy declarations
3) powers of life and death
4) powers of law creation and enforcement
5) powers to avoid prosecution (cf limited liabilities incorporation and government immunity)
or remove these powers from the government and institutions.
With great power comes great responsibility.
Either drop the powers, give the powers to everyone, or take the responsibility.
These diplomats are talking for you. Don't you want to know what they're doing with the power you give them?
Why is it that whenever there is some sort of multi-national drama, suddenly the discussion gets shifted to "conservatives are mindless drones of some tinfoil hat New World Order," or "Fox News is partly to blame" or the likes? I seriously wish that Godwin's law could be modified to include the phrases "liberal media bias", "Fox News", "New World Order," sheeple," and "shill" by scourfish (573542)
on Monday December 06, @01:55PM (#34462642)
Why is it that whenever "the powers that be" (banks, government, or other 'big money' threatened parties) are under fire, suddenly a "spin-control flunkie" like you shows up, with a BRAND-NEW 8 digit registered userid here no less (talk about obvious) to try keep the "damage down"? Can you tell us that?? Yes, we know - "the NWO is being threatened and my appointee job is threatened unless I get out there and do 'spin-control' plus rant and rave that 'it's the liberals crying again'" etc.! Yes, those "liberals" have no reason to do that, do they? See Dick Cheney & interpol on GOOGLE for example lately. See Julian Assange being attacked and in my opinion, framed for "rape" (you can't rape the willing, and the women involved were NOT forced into sex. It was consensual!) Clue - you & your kind aren't fooling anyone, get that through your head. You should have been "planted" here long ago, instead of just getting yourself a very new user id here which gives you away alongside your effete rant. Fact is, you're the 2nd such "brand new 8 digit userid" user I've seen today that's in here and in other posts ranting & raving as you have vs. Assange & in favor of the "NWO" & their illegal bribery shenanigans.
As far as force projection capabilities go, no one can come close to us. For instance, China has one aircraft carrier.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Ask a native american how benevolent and good the United States force is in the world, if you can find one.
No, it's bullshit technicalities. You can't simply offload responsibility like that. Reasonable people accept the risk and the vast majority of people probably wouldn't see any point in pulling out after the condom has spilled.
If she physically resisted and and Mr. Assange physically subdues her then there's a problem, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Consent isn't some bureaucratic document with loopholes and fine print, it has to do with how people interact and engage with each other.
Because I'm not Julius Assange? Because I can't afford to get arrested so I keep my mouth shut in public? Because I'm posting outside my own country under an alias?
I have friends who get arrested regularly for speaking out in public against leading politicians. I support them financially and logistically where possible, but I'm not in the position where I can afford to do the same and have my family suffer for it. I didn't care when I was single, but having a family to take care of changes things. I'm vulnerable now.
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
Visa says it has suspended all payments to WikiLeaks pending an investigation of the organization's business.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2010/12/07/wikileaks_17/index.html