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Dude, that's pure BS, today probably less than 1% of cars run Waze and yet it helps tremendously with traffic recognition, to the point that Google bought them primarily to feed better traffic info into maps. If you figure the average age of the US vehicle fleet is 11.4 years that means you turn over ~4% of the fleet each year resulting in a huge network effect year one and a stupid high effect by year 5.

Think of the kind of computer or phone you had 5 or 10 years ago. Do you want a 5-10 year old device hard-wired into your car 5-10 years from now?

This is a primarily US site. Most people here don't expect their cars to last that long.

I'm sure that was largely a dig at US car companies, but it still deserves to be smacked down with actual data.

The average age of cars on tho road in the US is 11.4 years and increasing, and while I can't find a primary source or up-to-date information on the median age, around that as well (almost certainly more than 10 years old).

So statistically speaking, not only to people in the US expect their car to last that long so they can get a better resale price, but most people are actually driving cars that are older than that.

The upcoming F-150 will push Ford's pickups closer to a 30 mpg highway rating

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20131223/OEM04/312239954/ford-rolls-dice-with-aluminum-f-150#ixzz2ogVVCODu

Yes, I read that part, but... "closer to a 30 mpg highway rating" is meaningless, and contains no data. If they improve by another half a mile per tank of gas, they would technically be "closer" and the statement would be true.

I want to know "how much closer", preferably with a comparison to an otherwise identical steel vehicle, so we can see what a truck intended to haul heavy loads gets in terms of mileage from using soft aluminum instead of solid steel for its construction.

Let's convert how much energy is wasted in tesla's sleep mode compared to a fossil fuel car: According to yahoo answers, 1 gallon of gasoline = 34.7 kWh.

Energy consumed by a model s in a month = 30 x 1.1 = 33 kWh Converting 33 kWh to equivalent gallons of gasoline = 33 / 34.7 = 0.95 gallons

The tesla wastes the equivalent of 1 gallon gasoline/month while parked!

I hope Tesla keeps working on reducing the amount of energy wasted. But lets use those same numbers for cars that actually get driven and see how the Tesla compares:

Given the average US driver drives 13476 miles per year, which is 1123 miles per month. And the average new car gets 24.9 miles per gallon. Therefore the kWh equivalent for the average ICE car is: 1123/24.9*34.7 = 1564 kWh / month

Whereas the Tesla consumes 38 kWh/100 miles. So for the Tesla we have: 38/100 * 1123 = 427 kWh driving per month, plus 33 kWh wasted per month gives a grand total of 460 kWh / month.

In other words, for people that actually drive their cars, the Tesla uses less than 1/3 of the energy of an ICE. Which seems relevant to the conversation.

Now, to be fair. I bet that people drive their Teslas more aggressively and get less than the EPA 38 kWh/100 miles. And there is the drain of accessories, etc. But that is a lot of headroom, I doubt any of the similar sized ICEs ever come close to the Tesla in energy efficiency.

1. I agree, give me an extra $70k and I'm not buying a model S with it, but if you gave me $200k I might... Right now it's not a good fit for my needs. Maybe that truck he's planning on around 2017 or so....
2. About those batteries they're buying off the shelf... That might change...
3. There's more reasons to buy a Model S than 'faux shit about the environment'. They range from stupid(IMO) gimmies like access to the carpool lanes even with only 1 passenger in California to being able to avoid gas stations(if you have a particular dislike) to being able to drive your car right into your warehouse(not a good idea with gas cars), and it's actually competitive with the other cars in it's price range for luxury.
4. Nearly all car manufacturers got their start building premium vehicles. Especially new tech ones.
5. Back to the battery packs - Tesla produced it's first car using a Lotus Elise body. Really, the core Tesla development at that point was the drivetrain - engine and systems. With the Model S they used their own designed from scratch body. With each model Tesla is taking more of the production 'in house'. Musk may be obscenely wealthy, but he doesn't quite have Scrooge McDuck's money vaults to establish all the production systems from day 1.
6. His buying of massive quantities of cells, as is, allows the companies that DO produce them to invest more in said cell production technology, automating more, increasing efficiency of scale, etc...

The average age of a car in the US is currently 11.4 years. Mine is 12 years and I have absolutely no reason to buy another car. I can afford it, easily, but I'm not going to.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20130806/RETAIL/130809922/

Here's what the Tesla site says:
http://www.teslamotors.com/advocacy_texas

Here's the Dallas Observer's discussion:
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2013/09/tesla_crushed_by_car_dealer_lo.php

And Auto News:
http://www.autonews.com/article/20130909/RETAIL07/130909878/how-texas-dealers-slammed-the-door-on-tesla

Could you put that into a car analogy for us?

...

( ducks and runs for cover )

How about this: Anyone who can afford one of these will simply go to another state to pick up the keys.

Here's what the Tesla site says: http://www.teslamotors.com/advocacy_texas

Here's the Dallas Observer's discussion: http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2013/09/tesla_crushed_by_car_dealer_lo.php

And Auto News: http://www.autonews.com/article/20130909/RETAIL07/130909878/how-texas-dealers-slammed-the-door-on-tesla

Could you put that into a car analogy for us?

...

( ducks and runs for cover )

Here's what the Tesla site says:
http://www.teslamotors.com/advocacy_texas

Here's the Dallas Observer's discussion:
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2013/09/tesla_crushed_by_car_dealer_lo.php

And Auto News:
http://www.autonews.com/article/20130909/RETAIL07/130909878/how-texas-dealers-slammed-the-door-on-tesla

Because private corporations by definition can't intimidate people by force, since only people intimidated, beaten up or killed by the evil government lose their freedom.

Being intimidated, beaten up or killed by private corporations doesn't restrict your freedom at all

ref: Colorado Labor Wars Iron and Coal Police, a privatized law enforcement entity Henry Ford's Service Department - which didn't repari customers' cars but beat the crap out of union organizers

Remember, if your are beaten or shot at by a government employee, it is evil tyranny. If you are beaten or shot at by a private security force, you are feeling the pains of FREEDOM.

It is only bad if the government does it.

It's interesting the way people can write passionate opinions complete with sarcasm ... to defend a point that no one was disputing.

Because private corporations by definition can't intimidate people by force, since only people intimidated, beaten up or killed by the evil government lose their freedom.

Being intimidated, beaten up or killed by private corporations doesn't restrict your freedom at all

ref:
Colorado Labor Wars
Iron and Coal Police, a privatized law enforcement entity
Henry Ford's Service Department - which didn't repari customers' cars but beat the crap out of union organizers

Remember, if your are beaten or shot at by a government employee, it is evil tyranny. If you are beaten or shot at by a private security force, you are feeling the pains of FREEDOM.

It is only bad if the government does it.

I know that tin foil is now available in new Holiday Colors, but you can occasionally put your new hat away.

Cash for Clunkers was not a plot by the overlords to ruin the used car market. It was designed to clear out the excess inventory of the automakers in an stalled market. Whether you believe it was worth the money is a value-judgement: it cost $2.9 billion, replaced ~700k cars as you said, and put the assembly lines of GM, Toyota and Ford nearly immediately back to work. After which they claim to have had a record year at GM.

As for the impact to the used car industry, the Reuters summary of the industry study stated:

--The US used cars market had total revenue of $237.9 billion in 2009

And this report shows there is a gap in the 3-5 year old used car availability:

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120829/RETAIL04/120829883/gm-sees-its-cpo-sales-flat-this-year-industry-sales-up-5

But between GM, Ford and Toyota, they'll sell more used cars in a year than were destroyed. It's simply not the devestated market that Conservative Talk Radio would have one believe.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/05/idUS208328+05-Apr-2011+BW20110405

Sure there is, but that's not what NASA is for.

No, they're for stuff like testing Toyota's brakes.

That's absolutely right though, there have been reports of "unintended acceleration" in cars as long as there have been cars, and the problem is caused by a person accidentally pressing the gas when intending to press the brake, and then instead of recognizing the error, flooring the car by pressing what they still believe to be the brake to the floor to counter the "unintended acceleration" they are experiencing.

A friend of mine suffered a serious brain injury when an old lady plowed into a crowd of students at a bus stop at high velocity. She claimed she was a victim of a spontaneous acceleration malfunction in the car, but the people on the scene who helped her out of her car said her foot was still flooring the gas when they opened the door, well after she ran over everybody. The front end was off the ground from hitting a low wall, so the wheels were just spinning, the engine racing.

So at the time, I did a lot of looking into "spontaneous" or "unintended" acceleration disorders, and here are some things I found:

- Despite a lot of lawsuits and accident investigations, there were no instances of lawsuits over "unintended acceleration" problems where any mechanic, engineer, or other inspector could find any physical cause for such machine-actuated acceleration when examining the vehicles after the accidents.
- While geography, weather, traffic conditions, etc. varied tremendously across different accident that were blamed on "unintended acceleration," there was a very strong correlation that the age of the drivers involved tended to be much higher than average.
- Cases of "unintended acceleration" occur across all makes and all models, but there is a concentration among Buick, Lincoln, Cadillac, Audi - cars favored by older drivers.
- In cars with "black box" crash-data recorders involved in "unintended acceleration" accidents, despite almost unanimous claims by the operators that the car accelerated despite them fully depressing the brake pedal, the black box did not record any push on the brake pedal at all- just flooring the accelerator.
- In 1989 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration investigated and released a report on unintended acceleration accidents, which found no evidence that any of them were due to anything other than operator error.

Maybe there's some new engineering problem with Toyotas that actually causes this, and I wouldn't place any bets on how lawsuits will turn out. But I'd sure bet you've hit the nail on the head with your PEBAAC idea regarding the true cause. Now that it's in the news, there are bound to be a lot more cases reported.

So who the fuck is CNW Marketing and why should their study be given any credence?

While Ford wants to simply offer cosmetic changes to automobiles interiors and exteriors

Ford is showing a 65mpg diesel hybrid - with supplemental solar power, no less. I'm not sure why 50mpg hybrids from GM are a revelation but a 65mpg diesel hybrid from Ford is "cosmetic", but there you go.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID= /20060104/FREE/60103014/1115

What the man said.

Make the consumer identify with the mother brand, not the models that change yearly. Check out Lincoln's parallel path, and their explanation for it:

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID= /20060102/SUB/51229028/1023

"We think it's important to build the brand image, so changing to this alpha system really helps put Lincoln more in the spotlight as a brand," spokeswoman Sara Tatchio said. "It also indicates a certain level of luxury."

Gah, will the next Intel D model also sport a GTI version? Cause I want it bad!

2) platinum can be, and is, recycled. petrol can't [in any meaningfull way, AFAIK - and I'm a Chemical Engineer].

Get one of the TDI models from VW. Over 1000 km a tank and the diesel is cheaper than gasoline. Their torque keeps them reasonably quick on the highway, and they are comfortable. Also the new engines help with the noise and smell issues associated with diesel power.

Unfortunately the hybrids really do seem over rated, though rumour has it vw is developing a diesel hybrid.

Here are some bigger, better images:
http://www.autonews.com/files/2003tokyo/toyota/pma .htm
http://grm.m.walla.co.il/archive/87536-12.jpg

I like to call it the Toyota Tachikoma :-)

I work in the Manufacturing industry and we are probably the worse hit by the "China factor." And what's it all about? ... Instant gratification! Manufacturers only care about short term profits, not long term survivability. What's going to happen when China closes the borders? You think they're going to throw out all the MAchine Tool technology, CNC technology, or any manufacturing technology patents just because we say so? No, they are going to backward engineer the technology and assimilate it into their technology with no questions asked. Check it out here

We gladly move over there because labor is so much cheaper that we can get product made for 10% of what it costs to manufacture in the US. Let's pose this question, do you want lower your wages to 10% to keep manufacturing in the US? Cause that's the only solution we have since China's entry into the WTO and it's pegging the Waun at .8:1 to the US dollar.

But, you all can just keep being consumers worrying more about the brand of shoes on your feet then what language you'll be speaking in 20 or 30 years.

Check out www.samnow.org.

-Al

Why stop with a V6, when you can get a Volkswagen V10

Believed to largely be caused by an overapplication of technology to engine management VW is currently involved in its biggest recall ever. Autonews article I love technology as much as the next geek but a the automakers are going a little overboard in some cases and aren't able to deal with the increased service costs of these vehicles.

Especially once exchange rates are taken into account

It's that simple, imagine, people getting paid anywhere between US$50,000 & millions to buggerise arround on computers half the day & gossip the other half of the day.

I wonder what percentage of that input actually produces anything of substance. I'd say less than 5%

Lets face it the average Mexican fruitpicker in California is more productive than the average Californian IT worker.

Really I don't see any justification for the average IT worker in the US earning more than double the US minimum wage. Even then IMAO they are only getting that extra over the minimum wage, as compo for wasting their time for studying such as unproductive stuff at college for 4 years, or whatever.

Maybe its about time they realised that the .com & Y2K scams have come their course & the boom days are over.

Or they could simply deflate the inflated US$, which more than anything else is killing US competitiveness.

No wonder GM is planning to sell Holden Utes ('ute' is short for utility) as El Caminos & Holden Monaros as Pontiac GTOs in the USA. Here's a Monaro ad video