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Hamas refuses to live with Israel under all circumstances, and refuses negotiations under all circumstances. Hamas chooses violence, and only violence. It's in the Hamas charter. Go read it yourself.

What is it exactly that Arabs want that Israel will not give them?

And good luck in your struggle. Maybe some day you can be free and less tolerant of other people's cowardice and determination to live by the sword.

Saying Israel is a "de-facto Apartheid" is a little, tad, bit, extreme. People of different backgrounds and cultures chose to live separately, and set up different residential areas. Jews and Arabs live side by side in Israel, without a forced segregation.

So maybe you should snap out of this illusion that peace is right around the corner, and it only takes some Israeli gut to make it. There's a lot more to do in the Arab nations for peace than there is in Israel.

"Before the 20th century, most Jews in Palestine belonged to old Yishuv, or community, that had settled more for religious than for political reasons. There was little if any conflict between them and the Arab population. Tensions began after the first Zionist settlers arrived in the 1880's...when [they] purchased land from absentee Arab owners, leading to dispossession of the peasants who had cultivated it." Don Peretz, "The Arab-Israeli Dispute."

"Before the 20th century, most Jews in Palestine belonged to old Yishuv, or community, that had settled more for religious than for political reasons. There was little if any conflict between them and the Arab population. Tensions began after the first Zionist settlers arrived in the 1880's...when [they] purchased land from absentee Arab owners, leading to dispossession of the peasants who had cultivated it." Don Peretz, "The Arab-Israeli Dispute."

'we're not going to give up support of the only true democracy in the region, Israel.'

"Arab rejection was...based on the fact that, while the population of the Jewish state was to be [only half] Jewish with the Jews owning less than 10% of the Jewish state land area, the Jews were to be established as the ruling body - a settlement which no self-respecting people would accept without protest, to say the least...The action of the United Nations conflicted with the basic principles for which the world organization was established, namely, to uphold the right of all peoples to self-determination. By denying the Palestine Arabs, who formed the two-thirds majority of the country, the right to decide for themselves, the United Nations had violated its own charter." Sami Hadawi, "Bitter Harvest."

Quoted from here

Israel? Democracy? ROFLMFAO!

If you are an Muslim Israel must be the least democratic place on the entire fu*king planet to live.

I didn't know that about the chapters. Amazing how ill informed we all are about international politics even when said politics are a manifest risk to our own lives.

If 242 isn't chapter VII then it bloody ought to be. If Israels illegal occupation of Palestine had been ended in 1967 as Iraqs occupation of Kuwait was ended the WTC would probably still be standing.

It amazes me how the media portrays Israels attacks on civilian Palestinians.

If the 1st Battalion of the 227th Aviation Regiment were to fly their Apaches over residential, Catholic, areas of Belfast and start indescriminately firing UNGUIDED rockets in retaliation to Real IRA attrocities would it be reported in the same way?

I fuc*ing doubt it.

(BTW whoever it was that posted the link to http://www.cactus48.com/truth.html last week thank you. Always wondered what was going on there, although I fear I was happier in my ignorance, certainly less worried for my life.)

Al Queda has ably demonstrated the sort of resolve that won Scotland its independence

'for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.'

this is spirit that won the US its independence.

Whether we agree with their methods or not it is undeniable that they are willing to die for freedom from perceived oppresion.

(As a side note the techniques Bruce used during the Wars of Independence were brutal and definitely in contravention of the Geneva convention, I imagine it was little better during the American War of Independence.)

The cause of these attacks was Israel.

Israels flagrant disregard for international laws, treaties and opinion has placed our citizens in untimely graves. It is time Israel was put in its place. Israel is a child state and needs to be soundly spanked and sent to its room before its behaviour spirals completely out of control.

Don't get the impression that I condone terrorism, I do not (my sister lives in Belfast), however the pragmatist in me recognises that trying to swat thousands of flies (terrorists) is futile, far more effective to remove the steaming pile of dog sh*te (Israels illegal occupation of Palestine) that is attracting them.

As to the 'Brit' thing, I felt uncomfortable, as a Scot, lumping myself in with the English like that even though it was the appropriate way to phrase it.

A bit like Texans don't like to be lumped in with the rest of America. Or, God forbid, calling a Canadian an American....

IBM helped slaughter Jews

You said, "I'm not an expert on history..."

There is an excellent short book available online that explains the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. It was written by Jews who recognize that there was unfairness by Jews in the formation of Israel. The title is The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict. Here is a quote from the chapter called Conclusion for Jewish Readers: "We know it is hard to accept emotionally, but in this case the Jewish people are in the wrong. We took most of Palestine by force from the Arabs and blamed the victims for resisting their dispossession."

The book says:

"During the 1948 war, 750,000 Palestinians fled in terror or were actively expelled from their ancestral homeland and turned into refugees. The state of Israel then refused to allow them to return and either destroyed their villages entirely or expropriated their land, orchards, houses, businesses and personal possessions for the use of the Jewish population. This was the birth of the state of Israel."

The Palestinians have, ever since, been living in refugee camps.

Why does the U.S. government give huge amounts of money to an already prosperous country? An article written from notes of a speech by San Francisco, California, political science professor Stephen Zunes explains that U.S. weapons manufacturers sell weapons to both Israel and to Arab countries. The article, U.S. Aid to Israel: Interpreting the "Strategic Relationship" says,

According to Zunes, "The Israelis announced back in 1991 that they supported the idea of a freeze in Middle East arms transfers, yet it was the United States that rejected it."

You said, "I'm not an expert on history..."

There is an excellent short book available online that explains the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. It was written by Jews who recognize that there was unfairness by Jews in the formation of Israel. The title is The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict. Here is a quote from the chapter called Conclusion for Jewish Readers: "We know it is hard to accept emotionally, but in this case the Jewish people are in the wrong. We took most of Palestine by force from the Arabs and blamed the victims for resisting their dispossession."

The book says:

"During the 1948 war, 750,000 Palestinians fled in terror or were actively expelled from their ancestral homeland and turned into refugees. The state of Israel then refused to allow them to return and either destroyed their villages entirely or expropriated their land, orchards, houses, businesses and personal possessions for the use of the Jewish population. This was the birth of the state of Israel."

The Palestinians have, ever since, been living in refugee camps.

Why does the U.S. government give huge amounts of money to an already prosperous country? An article written from notes of a speech by San Francisco, California, political science professor Stephen Zunes explains that U.S. weapons manufacturers sell weapons to both Israel and to Arab countries. The article, U.S. Aid to Israel: Interpreting the "Strategic Relationship" says,

According to Zunes, "The Israelis announced back in 1991 that they supported the idea of a freeze in Middle East arms transfers, yet it was the United States that rejected it."

The arab nations in the middle east attacked Israel repeatedly without provocation. Each defeat has made them more and more hostile. Between terrorist actions like the slaughter of the Israeli Olympic team and wars of agression from the First Arab-Israeli War onward, it's easy to be sympathetic to Israel.

And it is easy to make generalizations if one is unknowledgeable about the history of Palestine. I think you should read this in order to understand the roots of the present Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Keep this in mind: In the beginning of the 20th century only one person in 10 living in Palestine is a Jew. Now it is exactly reversed.

Put yourself in the shoes of the Palestinians: you have no american supplied F-16s, no Merkava tanks, no way of waging a Geneva Convention type war. How are you going to fight for your beliefs, your people and your history? Is it a wonder that the only way a desperate people can fight is through suicide bombings?

Please do not immediately label me an anti-semitic. I do not hate Jews, but I do deplore how the Israeli (and specially the Sharon) government's treatment of the Palestinian problem seems to mirror the way Hitler treated the Jewish problem. One has only to read Israeli newspapers to realize that many Israelis themselves are aware of these and actually criticize their own government.

I know many Jews here will agree with me. The problem with Israel is that it is not a nation of Israelis but a Jewish state. For as long as the Israeli government refuses to make itself into a truly representative, truly non-discriminatory nation it will continue to hold the entire world hostage to its ailment.

That is so true, that US-UK-Israel is the axis of evil.

Just read this:

Zionism : The killing of innocent people (jews and palestinians)
Jews for Truth

Greets Vlad!