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It's obviously not less than a prius idling as the prius generally doesn't idle (if it's sitting still the engine is off). So what is the prius doing that it creates more CO2? Running the tiny gas engine at top rpm as hard as it can?

Obviously, didn't you know Prius' get worse fuel efficiency than a Hummer? :P http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/DUST%20PDF%20VERSION.pdf

He's probably refering to this:

http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/

Resisting the urge to make a comment pertaining to a particular "smug" southpark episode... I'd still like to point out that I've read in a more than one places (including I think a slashdot article a bit back which cited the same data I'm posting here) about how the Prius from construction to disassembly at End Of Life, is a TERRIBLE car for the environment.

In fact a little bit of research (not saying this is accurate, just something to think about) leads me to a report comparing the overall cost per mile taking into account manufacturing, repairs, and consumables (ie gas and oil and batteries if applicable). The industry average that they came up with is $2.281 per mile. The Prius costs $3.249 per mile as compared to the most expensive (a Maybach $11.582) vs the cheapest (Scion xB $.478). As another example, the Corvette costs $3.158 per mile.

By their math (again, not saying it's correct, could be FUD for all I know) I'd be better off buying a Corvette than a Prius. Now to be perfectly honest I disagree with a lot of their math, HOWEVER that isn't the only source I've read it from. Their numbers may be FUDdy but Other sites reach some of the same conclusions albeit in less objective way.

I am not what you'd consider an environmentally conscious person. It isn't that I drive a huge truck (VW GTI which gets fairly good gas millage out of it's 1.8L Turbocharged engine and is fast to boot). The fact is there's far more to a car's environmental impact than strictly going by MPG. And thus, your argument that there's more than just cost that dictates how good something is for the environment... well take it with a grain of salt is all...

And then of course there's other cars that get very close to the Prius in gas mileage, that cost a lot less, and don't have polluting batteries in them...

I'm actually not against the Prius, I think it was an important first step in the American psyche that we are open to listening to alternative energy ideas, it was IMHO the first successful/popular hybrid car which shows that Americans are willing to shell out for a greener (if only in theory) car. Which means the Big Three will shell out money for R&D. I just don't like people getting up on their high horse because they own a Prius.

50% gasoline engine-powered, 50% flintstones foot-powered? No thanks!

Really, though, Toyota is talking about margins here. In other words, profit. Well, hybrids cost quite a bit more than their "conventional" counterparts. So much more, in fact, that you need to own one for much longer than is typical in order to *break even* through fuel savings.

And, according to this report by CNW, hybrids aren't nearly as helpful when it comes to energy savings as one might like to think. Indeed, my Xterra is more energy-friendly than most hybrids based on that report....

Maybe by 2020 things will change. Or maybe not.

So... if I recycle, I can afford to throw more shit into the neighborhood stream? You realize that argument is bullshit, right? Just because he pays more doesn't mean he is doing a better job. He's still using more energy per square foot of space than most American homes, with absolutely no reason to do so other than "I've got the money!"

I've seen this claim before. If this is "for certain", then I suppose it should be easy for you to produce some actual evidence to back it up. And please, don't bother linking to this discredited study.

This is actually an incredibly old study from a CNW market research which is shady for-hire "market research" group that promotes the views of the client (Think about all those Microsoft-funded studies depicted Linux being incredibly expensive).

http://www.cnwmr.com/

http://www.cnwmarketingresearch.com/

Here is what they ACTUALLY used for the lifetimes:

• Accord Hybrid - 117,000
• Prius - 109,000
• Civic Hybrid - 113,000
• Escape Hybrid - 127,000
• Insight - 109,000
• Hummer H1 - 379,000

So, not only did they lowball the Prius at 109k, they put the H1 down for 379,000 miles. If you read the explanation of expected life, the author says:

Finally, the "Estimated Life in Miles" is based on historical data as well as manufacturer information and real-world life-cycle information that average the miles over comparable historic models as well as a CNW analysis of repair and replacement as well as scrappage records. In effect, the miles figure here is a realistic approximation of the likely life-cycle of the individual models. Note that there are clearly many consumers who have driven further and clocked more miles for some of these vehicles, but this information takes into account historic accident and disposal records for individual demographic groups and how long these vehicles are likely to last.

So, basically, they have some kind of formula that they're not going to share with us. But just trust them.

This paper is really a hoot. You can get it from http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/Dust% 20Zip%20Folder.zip
The first 300 or so pages are the explanation and tables. Then there's another 60 pages of the author answering emails. Yet nowhere in those 60 pages can I find anyone apparently asking for hard evidence that the 109k/379k numbers are anywhere in the ballpark. You would think more than a couple of people asked that. But maybe I missed it. Did I mention this went on for 60 pages?

And then the next 120 pages are disclosures, articles, correspondance, photos of cars, editorial cartoons and song lyrics. I am NOT joking.

Google is your friend http://cnwmr.com/ Does this guy, Art Spinella, really live aboard the "chiquita" in Bandon, Oregon? And do we have any questions that this guy works http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/waveviiisummary/Purcha seProcessExecutiveSummaryWaveIX.pdf for Detroit?

Google is your friend http://cnwmr.com/ Does this guy, Art Spinella, really live aboard the "chiquita" in Bandon, Oregon? And do we have any questions that this guy works http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/waveviiisummary/Purcha seProcessExecutiveSummaryWaveIX.pdf for Detroit?

CNW Marketing is an automotive marketing "research" practise.

From their website:
Company Background

Founded in 1984, CNW Marketing/Research began as Coastal NW Publishing Company. Through the years, clients and subscribers have spread from the Great Northwest to include every state of the union (except Alabama), Australia, Europe, Asia and Canada. Clients include major automobile manufacturers, banks and lending institutions, Wall Street brokerage firms and consultants. Besides publishing LTR/8+ (America's most quoted source of leasing information), CNW publishes new and used vehicle industry reference guides and study summaries, a monthly Retail Automotive Summary of sales and trends, as well as our online research distribution center, CNW by WEB. CNW holds an annual conference in Los Angeles in connection with Time Inc. Mr. Spinella is available for Executive Sessions for a limited number of clients.

And not some crappy press release.

Link to the company that wrote the report: CNW Marketing
The report is behind the 'Dust zip folder.zip' link. The ZIP contains a 15 MB Word file [1]. There's also an Excel spreadsheet containing only the final numbers (cost/mile).

Looking at their website, and their decision to publish the report as a bloody Word file, does not fill me with confidence that they know what they're talking about. Maclink Plus is currently choking on the Word doc, so can't say anything about the content of that file yet.

My personal favourite:

Why don't you do business in Alabama?

We recognize 49 states and the District of Columbia. We do not accept business from Alabama. It'll take more than one beer for any further details.