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Jaguar's Hybrid Jet-Powered Concept Car
An anonymous reader writes "Jaguar has developed a hybrid car that runs on gas turbines. The range extended vehicle usually uses four electric motors (one on each wheel) plus a lithium-ion battery pack for propulsion, but can achieve a performance boost from a pair of gas turbines mounted in the rear. Cnet UK reports the car can do 0-60 mph in 3.4 sec. (and 50-90 mph in 2.3 sec.) and reach 205 mph while emitting less CO2 than a Toyota Prius."
It uses "two 70kW (94bhp) micro gas turbines". Aren't these small enough and powerful enough to be used for a jet pack?
iPhone 4! iPhone 4! I want an iPhone 4! Wait I mean Jet Pack! Jet Pack! I want a Jet Pack!
Its awesome that it can run on diesel, biofuel, natural gas, or LP. I wonder if it can run on a combination, or if you can only have one type of fuel at a time.
Also, I wonder what happens if one or more of the electric motors goes bad or stop working for any reason.
This thing has a dozen or so moving parts. Granted, the turbines move pretty damn fast but electric motors and generators are extremely reliable. Four indepenent motors and two turbines menas we have redundancy on top of that.
I'm a little suspicious of the emission claims though. How much of that is from plugin? I can't imagine turbine->electric->battery->motors is an efficient drive train.
THe 'early adopters' in car's world, the afficcinados, like Jeremy Clarkson will not go for a boring hybrid unless it gives them better thrill than a conventional gas guzzling supercar.
If this car is really fun to drive, it will be in demand, the markup on luxury is usually quite high, which means there's budget to develop something more mainstream with similar tech...
The summary left out the following important words before quoting performance figures: "Jaguar believes..."
"Jaguar has developed a hybrid car that runs on gas turbines."
How many miles-per-gas-turbine does it get and how many gas turbines are needed to fill the tank?
The electrics are by Lucas.
now all we need are options for machine guns and spike throwers. Having each wheel with its own motor makes for some good safety enhancements but how are they handling the weight of motors at wheels?
Hopefully within three to five years more and more range extenders will become available, I just want it in a form other than sedan or sports car; read: cuv/suv
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Cnet UK reports the car can do 0-60 mph in 3.4 sec. (and 50-90 mph in 2.3 sec.) and reach 205 mph while emitting less CO2 than a Toyota Prius."
After reading the article I think what it actually means is that it can be driven in electric only mode at slower speeds and emssions lower than the Prius or let the gas turbines kick in for a lot of power, but you won't be getting 28g/km when you do this. What we don't have is a figure for emissions in sustained normal driving, which are probably going to be similar or worse than the Prius
Is the jet engine going to sound like a jet engine? This may turn out to be a problem.
Gas turbines are powerful for their weight, but not exactly economical in fuel use. The power-to-weight ratio makes them suitable for aircraft, but for cars they are just a thirsty show-off.
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
Lets hope it works better then the old Chrysler Turbine car, and the exhaust gasses don't get too hot.
But is it monkey navigated?!
C17H21NO4
Chrome finish for the wheels = FAIL.
Gas turbines are powerful for their weight, but not exactly economical in fuel use.
A friend of mine was a tank commander in the US army. He complained about the reliability of the gas turbine engines in the M1 Abrams tanks. When they break down, oil gets into the turbine, and spews itself around.
Over the radio, when your tank breaks down, you say, "I shit the bed."
On the other hand, he was really impressed with the German Leopard tank. It just uses a turbo diesel engine, so it is not so sexy, but seems to get the job done.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
rich people with money to burn.
One that runs on bank notes comes to mind.
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
...if anything would've changed had Parnelli Jones not lost a ball bearing in 1967.
Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. - John 14:6 NLT
The parts falling off this car,
are of the finest British workmanship!
...tends to be that by definition, they only kick in when something is broken.
I used to climb a little bit. We'd be up on a thousand feet of exposure with just a thin nylon harness and some carefully tied rope. Now I'm a firefighter and have done some rope rescue classes. We don't even go on a steep hill without a far more complex (and heavy) harness system. It seemed ridiculous to me, but it was explained that if the usual way of doing things had worked then we wouldn't have been called in. Something has gone wrong, and we can't always know what it was.
The same problem exists, to us, for cars like the Prius. Lots of very high voltage cables running through parts of the car we would usually cut through to get someone out. In theory, there are safety systems that will cut power to those cables after an accident. In practice, what if the accident affected those cut-off systems? There's a manual cut-off -- I'd have to check the reference material we have, but I think it's under the back seat. If I could get to something under the back seat, I wouldn't need to cut the car apart.
When things are broken, they're ...well....broken. The safety systems may or may not be affected. I think the issue in this case is that broken at 65 miles per hour is one thing, and broken at 205 miles per hour is something else entirely.
I think if a car that was moving that fast being propelled by four independent motors suddenly found itself being propelled by thrust that was no longer balanced and centered -- I wouldn't want to be down range for quite some distance.
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
"Basically, all the normal concept car goodies are here, which is a good thing because Jaguar has no plans to build this car."
Meta will eat itself
Looks like a Lambo and a Lotus had a baby, then added turbines.
I will admit, having an electric motor dedicated to each wheel allows for some great control. With the physics of how electric motors typically work, you can also get crazy-huge horsepower & torque across nearly the whole range of the motor (assuming it's an induction motor). I can't imagine what the maintenance requirements/costs would be.
However, if this car actually makes it into production, I'd bet it will go the way of the Tesla Roadster: few made, high price (but that's a given), and hard to own/operate. It might also get butchered (visually speaking) between concept and production (remember the Chevy Volt concept car?).
(((dB)))
In the 1960s Chrysler developed a turbine engine and drove a car across the country on it. They also had a test program with a limited group. Driving it was similar to a diesel, in that it had a startup procedure one had to follow, but it otherwise operated normally. It got significantly better mileage than cars of the day with excellent performance, but it killed gearboxes rapidly.
More recently and more similarly to this project, Langford Performance Engineering of Wellingborough England modified the Ford S-Max seven seat crossover vehicle into a series hybrid plug in vehicle with a [capstone] C30 turbine, achieving over 80 mpg equivalent in early test driving. This made it a series hybrid like the upcoming Chevy Volt, but more efficient.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Dammit!
That is all.
Dave
a Chrysler!
Hyperbole. This car cannot do 0-62 in 3.whatever whilst emitting less than a Prius.
If you drive it like a Prius, you can get it to emit less CO2 than a Prius.
PS look at all the innovation going on with these new cars having to reduce CO2 emissions. Don't hear any of the AGW denialist doomsayers mentioning the innovation spur, do you.
Really Jaguar is just copying this guy here with his jet turbine powered VW Beetle
Bank notes come from paper. Paper comes from wood. I bet this old Ford would run on bank notes. Does Congress drive them?
Someone had to say it.
Excellent. Now if Megalon or Gigan dare to show their ugly heads around here Godzilla and this new "Jet-Jaguar" will be ready to take them on. The article doesn't mention how large this model can grow to, though?
Parent is referring to the STP turbine car....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_turbine#Racing_Cars
Jaguar was bought by the Indian company TATA, famous for its Tata-Nano car, also known as a scooter with a sheet metal bubble! May be they will merge these two technologies and attach the gas turbine to Nano! Or they can just pack a TataNano in the trunk (boot for you Brits) as a spare vehicle instead of a spare tire. The possibilities are endless!
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
"Cnet UK reports the car can do 0-60 mph in 3.4 sec. (and 50-90 mph in 2.3 sec.) and reach 205 mph while emitting less CO2 than a Toyota Prius."
I didn't know a Prius could do 205 mph.
Does anyone else this these wheels would look sweet on my 2001 Saturn?
GM had jet cars in the 50's: 50's Jet Car
Chrysler had one in the 60's: 60's Jet Car
...and Ford had the Mustang 429 Super Cobra Jet!
The only big difference between those cars and this Jag seems to be mileage - but, what would you expect 40-50 years later?
*** Don't be dull.***
Having turbines is not the same as being jet propelled, or even jet powered. The word "jet" refers to a high velocity fluid stream - e.g. likes those that are emitted from the back-ends of military fighter aircraft. Those jets throw mass out the back, and as described in Newton's third law, that pushes the aircraft forward. That's not how this car goes (assuming that it's a working prototype).
Jet Jaguar approves of this vehicle.
I read the internet for the articles.
I believe it actually runs off a gas-turbine.
From the TV show, it said it has 4 disadvantages.
1) It uses gas. (and everything else uses diesel, so you have to carry another thing around logistically)
2) It uses a lot of gas. (See above)
3) It generates a LOT of heat. (thus things like heat seeking whatever, can see it on a hot day in a desert...)
4) It is really LOUD. (considering its a tank, that's sayin' something!)
From my perspective, so that does help (if reported accurately) with emissions, however your still dependent on oil, so I see this as a complicated confusing step backwards.
All other issues aside, I wonder how noisy these gas turbine engines are.
Proverbs 21:19
A motor on each wheel. Interesting. But I never got why they can't just use a generator on each wheel and maybe an idler or 2 (or 10 if they have room) that could be dropped when/if needed and just forget the gas engine.
Top Speed has much more information that the article that slashdot linked, as well as an official video from Jaguar.
Also after years of research Jaguar found a way to make a gas turbine leak oil.
No joke.
Jaguar couldn't even engineer a convertible top that doesn't end up hosing down the car's occupants with hydraulic fluid, what chance do they have with a turboshaft engine?
Apparently they designed a really complicated electrohydraulic system to operate the convertible top, including hoses that run to the front of the top to operate, of all things, a hydraulic-driven latch, but they never instrumented the prototype systems to see if the fluid pressure exceeds the working pressure of the hoses during the top-up cycle. It does.
Putting moderation advice in your
... steers like a cow?
Seriously, how heavy is a 200HP elecric motor at each corner going to make it?
don't forget that Tata Motors owns the Jaguar, the same company that gave India the Nano.
I attended the Make Faire in NYC last weekend and there was a dune buggy that was turbine powered on display. It was basically a stock frame where he had removed the engine and drive train. The engine was replaced with a small turbine from a military power generator and in this particular case he used a PTO to go to a hydraulic pump and the 4 wheels were hydraulically driven. The thing was pretty sweet and was definitely something a good mechanical person could build at home. Glad to see a major manufacturer going the same route and doing it up as electric instead. This is the way to go in the future, more power, more efficient.
There was a company in the United states that tried rear mounted turbine engines for power mayber 10 years ago - the company was called Rosin motors (or something like that) - they developed increadible power and gas mileage for the time - their only problem was rear impact testing. If a sufficient enough rear impact happened, then all those "spinning blades" in the turbine became hurling blades - because of this, they never produced a streetable car. They tried many techniques to fix this, but any time they had a concept that would contain the turbines, it was too heavy and the gas mileage was degraded to much. I wounder how Jaguar has gotten around this
Could they use some of the heat to drive a steam-based generator for even more efficiency?
Reminds me of the Rosen Motors concept. They had a flywheel that was used to store enough of a charge to actually start the thing, but it was pretty efficient. I really like the idea, and hope it takes hold.
.. pa-ra-bo-la, pa-ra-bo-la, 2 pi R, 2 pi R, where's your latus rectum, where's your latus rectum, 2 pi R
After working with Gas Turbines I'm excited about the possabilitites. With so many moving parts the internal combustion engine has an efficiency of around 20% of the potential while a turbine uses 80%+ of the potential stored in petro-chemical fuels. The hard part has always been the extremely hot exhaust. It's considered bad form to melt the porche behind you if they pull up too close.
...Turbines to speed!
Am I the only one?
Atomic batteries to power. Turbines to speed.
Wikiquote
YouTube
It's about time someone builds a hybrid car with gas turbines. I've been wondering for years when a car manufacturer will do it. Turbines burn very cleanly, are very efficient when used for appropriate applications, and let's face it: there are few things that sound as cool as a turbine spooling up. :)
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Here's the turbine from Bladon Jets (Isle of Man).
This is the interesting part. Turbine cars have been built before, but the turbine usually cost too much. Bradon claims "low manufacturing costs", but no numbers are given. Here's a video of the engine, and an interview with the designer. It only cost the company a million pounds to get to this point, which is impressive for a startup.
The turbine wheel is made in one piece, by electric discharge machining in an oil bath. That helps to keep the cost down.
I've always thought that NASCAR in particular could reduce the thickness of their rulebook considerably by putting the teams on a fuel allowance for the race. If the cars start going too fast to be safe, pull back the fuel they are allowed to get.
This vigilante in Gotham City has had one for decades.
mark
Finally someone is paying attention to me: "series hybrids means we can finally use turbines: gas turbines are the most efficient engine. [wikipedia.org] While a gasoline engine is only 20-30% efficient, [wikipedia.org] a gas turbine is over 80% efficient. [wikipedia.org] In 1999 GM made a EV1 Series hybrid using a turbine generator. The vehicle achieved up to 100mpg while charging the battery [wikipedia.org] using 90s technology and a 220 lbs turbine (modern turbines are much smaller [wikipedia.org]) "
Now I really am +5, Interesting
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
FTA: Cnet UK reports the car can do 0-60 mph in 3.4 sec. (and 50-90 mph in 2.3 sec.) and reach 205 mph while emitting less CO2 than a Toyota Prius.
And thus provides the owner with a larger penis.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
When things are broken, they're ...well....broken. The safety systems may or may not be affected. I think the issue in this case is that broken at 65 miles per hour is one thing, and broken at 205 miles per hour is something else entirely.
I think if a car that was moving that fast being propelled by four independent motors suddenly found itself being propelled by thrust that was no longer balanced and centered -- I wouldn't want to be down range for quite some distance.
If your going to have a failure at 205 mph, I don't think it matters if your being propelled by unbalanced thrust or a traditional Internal Combustion engine. It's going to be bad.
If you drop a Corola from an air-plane and you put fire on it, it will have the same 205 mph and same emiting.
It might be as fast as a Pagani, but, does it run Linux for the on-board computer? That would make it most efficient! Remember the Linux Motorcycle? E-motorcycle TTX02 from Mavizen.
Comparing with a Prius is not really saying much. They're only slightly more efficient than any other normal car. The real alternative is quite different.
I didn't know a Prius could go 205 mph :-P
-- This
Lambo was a tractor manufacturer. Then one day Mr Lambo bought a Ferrari & wasn't impressed & took it back, Mr Ferrari refused to improve the Ferrari as Mr Lambo requested, so Mr Lambo stormed off in a huff yelling 'bugger you, I can do a better job building supercars myself'
You know happens if an electrical substation is on fire? It burns. Firefighters do not attempt to put it out.
How do I know this? I AM a firefighter.
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
There are many cars, and I certainly don't study them all. The hybrids have been (and remain) a concern for us. If your description is true -- and I hope it is, than that's one less.
I don't think it changes my point any, but it's good information.
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
You'd be mistaken. Hybrid cars produce as much as 300 volts.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/hybrid-technology/hybrid-car-voltage.htm/printable
I believe it tends to be low amperage, but I'm not certain. It's the voltage that will let the charge get across those thin gloves though.
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
Don't confuse "jet engines" (thrust) with gas turbines (rotary power). It certainly sounds as if the turbines deliver power to the generator(s?) and possibly the wheels. As far as I can tell this is not "jet" tech, but "turbo-prop" engineering, using the spinning turbine to drive something via gears.
Note that Chrysler built about 50 turbine cars in the 60's but buyers didn't like the engine noise.
Airbags are everywhere now.
First thing we do in a powered extrication is secure the battery cables. After 60 seconds the airbags at least shouldn't deploy as a result of a broken or shorted sensor wire. That doesn't completely make them safe - those charges can still be dangerous as hell if you cut into them. When we can take the time (and usually we can) we have reference material available for most cars, otherwise, we count on our padded gear, hardhats, eye protection, and good karma.
At the end of the day, it's just not a safe thing to do. If I forget, I just have to look at the inside pocket of my turnout gear. On it, a patch says quite clearly "Firefighting is an inherently dangerous activity and cannot be made safe."
We have a saying in the fire service....God hates cowards.
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln