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See this on Demon's web site for some intresting background on the case.

of a professor (Laurence Godfrey) suing the UK 's largest ISP (Demon) over something posted on USENET. In this case the ISP caved.

Read the story on Wired.

A long, but good, summary of the law and its implications can be found here

Thanks for the warm fuzzies.

Over here we've had the Demon Usenet-hosting debacle to cope with and I'm not happy that an ISP should be liable for anything other than equipment and service provision. As soon as you get governments, courts and corporations involved in the 'Net, you've got problems - all the innocence of one's student days is over.

If you want an example of the sort of depth of argument that does the rounds nowadays, check here.

If you offer something to sell on the internet, and you agree to sell it whilst you are standing in Germany, then you'll probably be subject to German contract law

Except, firstly, that this may be English law but it is possible that it is not German law so you, as the consumer, would have no rights! (How is this dealt with for faxes?) Secondly, there was an EU proposal that would make the jurisdiction of any internet transaction the country of the consumer, i.e. the direct opposite of English law. Of course only enforsable within the EU so I'd have to ask you for your nationality and deal with you differently (what if you lie!?). I guess US companies already have to do this with the silly export restrictions.

It all just goes to show that conventional notions fail in the internet world.

I'm going to stand with one leg on each side of a border, connect through my GSM cell-phone, and sell you something dodgy just to find out how the law is going to deal with that.

But thanks for the clarification. Oh, and I think it is now a Scottish ISP - I'm sure there are somebody who cares... :-)

They object that it will be expensive and impractical to provide the required level of access, and in any case the average PC Plod will need a lot of education in using the intercepts, which Demon don't have the time to give.

Paul.

They object that it will be expensive and impractical to provide the required level of access, and in any case the average PC Plod will need a lot of education in using the intercepts, which Demon don't have the time to give.

Paul.

ISTR that in Germany a couple of Compuserve execs were actually convicted of distributing child porn because they were running a news server.

Also, on Demon's web site you can find out about the libel suit brought by one Dr. Lawrence Godfrey. Someone posted a newsgroup posting libelling LG. Demon refused to delete it when asked, and LG is now sueing Demon for propogating the libel. The law appears to be against Demon, but the problem is that it effectively requires ISPs to remove articles from their News spools on demand.

Good luck with the paper.

Paul.

D'oh! Ya beat me to it, Victor!

I was wondering who would notice... this is an infinite progression. Everything on the Internet is now defamatory, according to Demon, if you take this to it's logical conclusion.

1. Go to http://www.dispatches.demon.net/.
2. Select "Search the Web" from the bottom of that page.
3. Select "Dejanews" from the bottom of that page.
4. Obviously, defamatory articles aren't more then 4 or 5 links away now.

aka Symphonic Dragon

Morally, one would say that the defamer is (and Demon's Acceptable Use Policy for their web space conforms to this: "13. You will be held responsible for and accept responsibility for any defamatory, confidential, secret or other proprietary material available via your Homepages site.").

Historically though, the publisher has a responsibilty also. This is presumably predicated on the notion that someone would read a defamatory statement before it was published - there would be an editor, or a typesetter, or even a scribe who acts as an agent to enable publication. This agent must see the defamatory material beore it is sent out into the big wide world, and as such the publisher can be construed as knowing about it. Also, of course, publishers generally have more money than authors so an aggrieved party is likely to get more dosh out of them.

Obviously (to netizens, anyway) this whole model of responsiblity explodes in a world of direct communication which requires no intermediaries. For those seeking redress, then, they can either sue the author (who might not be known or legally accessible) or the ISP who carried the dafamation on their server. Given the options, it's hardly surprising if ISPs get it in the neck.

This decision is very unfortunate, though - ISPs should have common carrier status like phone companies or the postal service: they are merely a channel, and do not control or have direct responsibility for the content generated by their users.

I feel sorry for Demon here, to be honest - they're just trying to avoid being held in contempt.
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::Anyone else have demon issues??

You mean apart from still paying 10 quid a month for a service most other UK ISPs charge a fiver for, or give away for free?

A static IP address plus fax-to-email and batch FTP is not worth an extra five quid a month (although it is Most Handy, I admit).

Demon need to cut their price to a fiver a month or risk going down the pan.

I'm only sticking with them because I've been with them so long that my email address and web site are now so extensively cross-linked by other web sites and search engines that it would take me two years to get all my traffic back.

According to a "friend in the know" at Telehouse, Scottish Telecom have invested far too much in Demon to let the company sink. Frankly I see little evidence of this- every week I expect Demon's Falco obituary in NTK. Cliff Stanford knew when to quit- nowt to do with Demon needing a telecoms partner; all to do with increased competition.

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::Anyone else have demon issues??

You mean apart from still paying 10 quid a month for a service most other UK ISPs charge a fiver for, or give away for free?

A static IP address plus fax-to-email and batch FTP is not worth an extra five quid a month (although it is Most Handy, I admit).

Demon need to cut their price to a fiver a month or risk going down the pan.

I'm only sticking with them because I've been with them so long that my email address and web site are now so extensively cross-linked by other web sites and search engines that it would take me two years to get all my traffic back.

According to a "friend in the know" at Telehouse, Scottish Telecom have invested far too much in Demon to let the company sink. Frankly I see little evidence of this- every week I expect Demon's Falco obituary in NTK. Cliff Stanford knew when to quit- nowt to do with Demon needing a telecoms partner; all to do with increased competition.

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Currently (99-5-4) there is a case going on in the UK involving Demon internet and a physicist who had a defamatory message posted on its news server. If Demon loses, it will affect all ISP's in the UK and would mean that LucasFilm could easily get it's request for removal of unofficial Star Wars files enforced here.

See http://news.bb c.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid%5F304000/304869 .stm and
http://news.bbc. co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_278000/278482.stm