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Their headline is something like "EU Parliament Stops Software Patents.

It might be appropriate to put emphasis on the most important word in the headline of heise.de.

"European Parliament turns down pure software patents."

This reads different!

According to this message (again, German) the bill has passed the EP but got some major changes. E.g. no patents for business ideas, algorithms. Computer patents only when connected to engineering and the "respective forces of nature."

Please could everyone calm down. Look for posts by Halo1 and JPHM, and read this

The story gives a completely wrong impression. Have a look at this FFII news: EU Parliament Votes for Real Limits on Patentability - the fact is, the majority voted for drastic changes of the directive and against the original draft - so actually this is very good for all of us opposing patentability of software.

Hey editors, please change the story so that not everybody claims we european get a US-like patent law system, this is (not yet) the case!

A lot of the comments here indicate that people think that this is a universally bad thing - in fact, the draft directive was so heavily amended by MEPs in support of the proposals of the FFII and related organisations, that the resulting document is actually quite supportive of realistic limits on software patents.

Full details here . Check it out!

A lot of the comments here indicate that people think that this is a universally bad thing - in fact, the draft directive was so heavily amended by MEPs in support of the proposals of the FFII and related organisations, that the resulting document is actually quite supportive of realistic limits on software patents.

Full details here . Check it out!

Europarl votes for Real Limits on Patentability

FFII News -- For Immediate Release -- Please Redistribute
See http://swpat.ffii.org/#news

Now we will have to see whether the European Commission is committed to "harmonisation and clarification" or only to patent owner interests.

Yesterday's threats uttered by Bolkestein against the European Parliament suggest the latter.

The detailed results are available on our site

http://swpat.ffii.org/news/03/plen0923/

It will now be our job to help the European Parliament assert itself against attempts by Bolkestein and patent lawyers wearing the hat of national governments to crush the directive project.

The current text has some remaining contraditions in it, but basically the thrust has been turned around. It has become our directive which we must help the European Parliament to defend. This is also a question of the European Parliament's role in an emerging democratic Europe. On the whole this is very good news for the EU.

--
Hartmut Pilch, FFII & Eurolinux Alliance tel. +49-89-18979927
Protecting Innovation against Patent Inflation http://swpat.ffii.org/
270,000 votes 2000 firms against software patents http://noepatents.org/

Europarl votes for Real Limits on Patentability

FFII News -- For Immediate Release -- Please Redistribute
See http://swpat.ffii.org/#news

Now we will have to see whether the European Commission is committed to "harmonisation and clarification" or only to patent owner interests.

Yesterday's threats uttered by Bolkestein against the European Parliament suggest the latter.

The detailed results are available on our site

http://swpat.ffii.org/news/03/plen0923/

It will now be our job to help the European Parliament assert itself against attempts by Bolkestein and patent lawyers wearing the hat of national governments to crush the directive project.

The current text has some remaining contraditions in it, but basically the thrust has been turned around. It has become our directive which we must help the European Parliament to defend. This is also a question of the European Parliament's role in an emerging democratic Europe. On the whole this is very good news for the EU.

--
Hartmut Pilch, FFII & Eurolinux Alliance tel. +49-89-18979927
Protecting Innovation against Patent Inflation http://swpat.ffii.org/
270,000 votes 2000 firms against software patents http://noepatents.org/

BTW: sorry about the formatting, but it's not too bad if you narrow the page.

The speeches by Framm, Boussa, Andersson, Cappato, Gebhardt, Boogert, Courtrand and McCormick show just how strongly the message got through.

This is a real credit to all the people who contacted their MEPs -- read what McCormick (not actually McCarthy) has to say about you!

Don't believe Wuermeling. He's full of it. The directive will NOT have the effects he's claiming in his letter (which is actually a form letter, with minor customisations for the recipient).

They didnt' explain to you in school what a quote is

D4C5CE writes "The European Parliament's...

I think it's you who needs to learn to read.

BTW, Arlene McCarthy is the bitch that started this whole software patents shit, so you obiously have no frking clue what you are talking about, go read(if you can) and inform yourself a bit before posting missinformed such bull shit:

http://swpat.ffii.org/players/amccarthy/index.en.h tml
http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/index .en.html

\\k

They didnt' explain to you in school what a quote is

D4C5CE writes "The European Parliament's...

I think it's you who needs to learn to read.

BTW, Arlene McCarthy is the bitch that started this whole software patents shit, so you obiously have no frking clue what you are talking about, go read(if you can) and inform yourself a bit before posting missinformed such bull shit:

http://swpat.ffii.org/players/amccarthy/index.en.h tml
http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/index .en.html

\\k

It's supposed to be confusing. Yes, to the unsuspecting computer guy (and MP!) it reads like pure software patents should not be allowed. What it means in reality, you can read on FFII's web site.

Especially read 4. How CEC/JURI ensure Unlimited Patentability: Some Sample Provisions from their Directive Proposal for a translation into real English: For a patent laywer, the term "computer-implemented inventions" means that everything that potentially runs on a computer (like, Software) can now be patented! Compare this to the existing law, which explicitly forbids pure software patents, yet the EPO (European Patent Office) granted ~30,000 software patents, from one-click shopping over email archiving to progress bars (so much for the "don't extend current practice" bit).

What it would mean for Linux et al. if this practice will be officially sanctioned we all know...

Malcolm HARBOUR (EPP-ED, West Midlands) stated that patents played an indispensable role in making the EU the most dynamic knowledge based economy in the world. Patents, he said, help to stimulate investment and encourage invention. Protecting genuine invention and creativity would help business to develop products that people want to buy.

Needless to say, this guy has a page to himself on the FFII site.

My impression from this (admittedly brief) note is that even the most aged and out-of-touch members of the (British) House of Lords would have managed a more coherent debate on this. Still, it's not gone all the megacorps' way.

Thankyou very much for anything you can do.

Thankyou very much for anything you can do.

The amendments include such things as introduction of software claims (amendment 18 from by Mr. Galgani, PPE-DE) and a definition of technical contribution which is exactly the same than the one proposed by the pro-patent European Council intellectual property committee.

For an analysis see:
Analysis of JURI amendments by FFI

I've already posted this in the other thread, there's also an english translation of this (actually several, just modify the url).

Actually, it is. Or at least trying very hard to be. The European Patent Office has been issuing software patents for years, even though it isn't allowed to. They can't be enforced yet, but that will change if the directive passes and is implemented.

Furthermore, the quality of the examination of patent application has decreased drastically for some time now.

Actually, it is. Or at least trying very hard to be. The European Patent Office has been issuing software patents for years, even though it isn't allowed to. They can't be enforced yet, but that will change if the directive passes and is implemented.

Furthermore, the quality of the examination of patent application has decreased drastically for some time now.

This article confirms my suspicion, that the amendment will still allow software to be patented:
Why Amazon One Click Shopping is Patentable under the Proposed EU Directive

And thanks to Elektroschock, which informed me that the amendment is actually proposed by the proponent of software patent.
FFII and other parties are currently lobbying against it

So for everyone who lives in EU and care about IT - let's start doing something about it.

This article confirms my suspicion, that the amendment will still allow software to be patented:
Why Amazon One Click Shopping is Patentable under the Proposed EU Directive

And thanks to Elektroschock, which informed me that the amendment is actually proposed by the proponent of software patent.
FFII and other parties are currently lobbying against it

So for everyone who lives in EU and care about IT - let's start doing something about it.

Se our comments on this amendment, these are the amendments of McCarthy-JURI we protest against because they are fake limits. McCarthy rejected all important amendments that could define the word "technical". Our comments on the 120 amendments that will be voted on wednesday see here.

Se our comments on this amendment, these are the amendments of McCarthy-JURI we protest against because they are fake limits. McCarthy rejected all important amendments that could define the word "technical". Our comments on the 120 amendments that will be voted on wednesday see here.

FFFI has a story about it with regard to this amendet proposal called Why Amazon One Click Shopping is Patentable under the Proposed EU Directive. I guess this will answer your questions.

It is very common that patent protagonists lied to the general public and their collegues. Patent lawyers are like crackers. Cracker circumvent security, patent lawyers circumvent restrictions of patent law. A patent lawyer that cannot file a patent on software patents with the current "JURI amended"-directive proposal would not be worth his money.

Here you find the amendments that will be voted on and FFII's recommendation. FFII and the Eurolinux Alliance are very strong in Brussels and they grow stronger every day. Many parliamentarians listen to us and then the directive protagonists sell the directive as an fulfillment of our concerns, switching rhethorics, but not substance. About 200 people now focus on this issue as activists on our mailing lists. You can subscribe to patent@aful.org or take part in theOnline demonstration or become a member/supporter of FFII or sign the Eurolinux Petition. You can support FFII by donations or even better by contributions. The European Parliament underestimated us. The patent lawyer slaves in Europarl came under strong pressure. We will be a mayor stakeholder in any future debate. The Green Party/EFA Groups impressed by our work even called for Open Source in the EU institutions

The Green/EFA group in the European Parliament has called on the EU, and in particular on the European Parliament, to support free/open-source software by introducing it into their IT systems. In a letter to the Secretary General of the Parliament, Julian Priestley, dated 9 September, the two Green/EFA Co-Presidents Monica Frassoni and Daniel Cohn-Bendit, argue that - as well as supporting Europe's software industry - switching to free and open source software would benefit the Parliament in terms of data continuity, technological independence and budgetary considerations. It would additionally take note of the Parliament's Echelon resolution, which recommended using non-proprietary software to increase technological security.

It is very common that patent protagonists lied to the general public and their collegues. Patent lawyers are like crackers. Cracker circumvent security, patent lawyers circumvent restrictions of patent law. A patent lawyer that cannot file a patent on software patents with the current "JURI amended"-directive proposal would not be worth his money.

Here you find the amendments that will be voted on and FFII's recommendation. FFII and the Eurolinux Alliance are very strong in Brussels and they grow stronger every day. Many parliamentarians listen to us and then the directive protagonists sell the directive as an fulfillment of our concerns, switching rhethorics, but not substance. About 200 people now focus on this issue as activists on our mailing lists. You can subscribe to patent@aful.org or take part in theOnline demonstration or become a member/supporter of FFII or sign the Eurolinux Petition. You can support FFII by donations or even better by contributions. The European Parliament underestimated us. The patent lawyer slaves in Europarl came under strong pressure. We will be a mayor stakeholder in any future debate. The Green Party/EFA Groups impressed by our work even called for Open Source in the EU institutions

The Green/EFA group in the European Parliament has called on the EU, and in particular on the European Parliament, to support free/open-source software by introducing it into their IT systems. In a letter to the Secretary General of the Parliament, Julian Priestley, dated 9 September, the two Green/EFA Co-Presidents Monica Frassoni and Daniel Cohn-Bendit, argue that - as well as supporting Europe's software industry - switching to free and open source software would benefit the Parliament in terms of data continuity, technological independence and budgetary considerations. It would additionally take note of the Parliament's Echelon resolution, which recommended using non-proprietary software to increase technological security.

It is very common that patent protagonists lied to the general public and their collegues. Patent lawyers are like crackers. Cracker circumvent security, patent lawyers circumvent restrictions of patent law. A patent lawyer that cannot file a patent on software patents with the current "JURI amended"-directive proposal would not be worth his money.

Here you find the amendments that will be voted on and FFII's recommendation. FFII and the Eurolinux Alliance are very strong in Brussels and they grow stronger every day. Many parliamentarians listen to us and then the directive protagonists sell the directive as an fulfillment of our concerns, switching rhethorics, but not substance. About 200 people now focus on this issue as activists on our mailing lists. You can subscribe to patent@aful.org or take part in theOnline demonstration or become a member/supporter of FFII or sign the Eurolinux Petition. You can support FFII by donations or even better by contributions. The European Parliament underestimated us. The patent lawyer slaves in Europarl came under strong pressure. We will be a mayor stakeholder in any future debate. The Green Party/EFA Groups impressed by our work even called for Open Source in the EU institutions

The Green/EFA group in the European Parliament has called on the EU, and in particular on the European Parliament, to support free/open-source software by introducing it into their IT systems. In a letter to the Secretary General of the Parliament, Julian Priestley, dated 9 September, the two Green/EFA Co-Presidents Monica Frassoni and Daniel Cohn-Bendit, argue that - as well as supporting Europe's software industry - switching to free and open source software would benefit the Parliament in terms of data continuity, technological independence and budgetary considerations. It would additionally take note of the Parliament's Echelon resolution, which recommended using non-proprietary software to increase technological security.

An analysis of these amendments is available here

I got the news that the Finns have adopted the FFII's thoughts about this issue and will vote against SW-patents.
Let's just hope that there are more people that will "get it" soon.

I tried to include the letter but the lameness filter thought that there were too many whitespaces. *sigh*
It's probably somewhere on FFII's homepage anyway.

.haeger

The Green/EFA group in the European Parliament has called on the EU, and in particular on the European Parliament, to support free/open-source software by introducing it into their IT systems. In a letter to the Secretary General of the Parliament, Julian Priestley, dated 9 September, the two Green/EFA Co-Presidents Monica Frassoni and Daniel Cohn-Bendit, argue that - as well as supporting Europe's software industry - switching to free and open source software would benefit the Parliament in terms of data continuity, technological independence and budgetary considerations. It would additionally take note of the Parliament's Echelon resolution, which recommended using non-proprietary software to increase technological security.

The Green/EFA group in the European Parliament has called on the EU, and in particular on the European Parliament, to support free/open-source software by introducing it into their IT systems. In a letter to the Secretary General of the Parliament, Julian Priestley, dated 9 September, the two Green/EFA Co-Presidents Monica Frassoni and Daniel Cohn-Bendit, argue that - as well as supporting Europe's software industry - switching to free and open source software would benefit the Parliament in terms of data continuity, technological independence and budgetary considerations. It would additionally take note of the Parliament's Echelon resolution, which recommended using non-proprietary software to increase technological security.

Don't forget, there is a public demonstration going on in Strasburg tomorrow in front of the EU Parliament.

There's lots of information on the ffii website backing up the idea that software patents don't foster innovation.

The STAC case shows if anything that established players can ride over the patent system when it suits them to maintain market dominance. They also use patents to raise barriers to entry for smaller players.

We DO notice what is going on, it's just that we cannot do anything legal to stop it.

I've had this feeling for a long while now, that a revolution is brewing. It's time (again) to take the power back to the people.

Have a look at the software patent site of the FFII (Foundation for a Free Infomation Infrastructure), especially their FAQ and the article Why are Software Patents so Trivial?.

Have a look at the software patent site of the FFII (Foundation for a Free Infomation Infrastructure), especially their FAQ and the article Why are Software Patents so Trivial?.

Have a look at the software patent site of the FFII (Foundation for a Free Infomation Infrastructure), especially their FAQ and the article Why are Software Patents so Trivial?.

Read here

Once everybody is on the Internet do you figure they will no longer want their garbage taken our or their pensions or defense from terrorists

or negotiated trade pacts or prisons?

And thanks to Munich FFII Germany has the strongest anti-swpat movement...

In Munich they demontrated together with a social democrat politician Lochner-Fischer (Member of Bavarian House of representatives) that capaigned for Linux! See this picture with her election campaign banners.

Also European MEP Wolfgang Kreissl-Dorfler hold a speech at FFII demo munich.

German Wiki page about Munich demo

Note: As a Northern German I don't like Bavarian culture, but Munich is special, less ultra-conservative than the rest of Bavaria. As an European I am proud of the leading role of Europe in the current silent Open Source revolution.

Id you know a European language it is very helpful if you could translate part of the thing on Sunday. (Erik needs this by monday morning. There are persons working on it, help is needed help for it, subscribe to the translations mailing list and the info page for more info).

Once doing that whetted your appetite for coming to Strasbourg (there is a demo), help is also appreciated of distributing this inside the parliament (write to europarl ATt ffii DOtT org or call +49-174-7313590, sleeping between 1 am and 9 am CET).

Also note that before there are some supporting events in Greece, Stuttgart and Berlin.

Id you know a European language it is very helpful if you could translate part of the thing on Sunday. (Erik needs this by monday morning. There are persons working on it, help is needed help for it, subscribe to the translations mailing list and the info page for more info).

Once doing that whetted your appetite for coming to Strasbourg (there is a demo), help is also appreciated of distributing this inside the parliament (write to europarl ATt ffii DOtT org or call +49-174-7313590, sleeping between 1 am and 9 am CET).

Also note that before there are some supporting events in Greece, Stuttgart and Berlin.

The correct links are

http://swpat.ffii.org/papiere/eubsa-swpat0202/plen 0309/index.en.html
http://swpat.ffii.org/papiere/eubsa-swpat0202/plen 0309/kond/index.en.html

(Just remove the space in the one of the original posting)

From four personal letters I wrote to my MEPs I received two answers. Please _do_ write you MEPs, be polite and describe the facts clearly - most of them do not know what the impact of this directive would be as they don't have the IT background.

Tell them that the implications of this directive are far reaching and would have a negative impact on most EU providers, IT and software companies - including everyone running a web shop. The only groups clearly profiting from it are the ones most vocal behind it - patent lawyers and large foreign companies with an already filled-up-to-the-brink patent portfolio.

Tell them that it would affect more people than just the IT industry, software designers, programmers, e.g. AFAIK Baking bread - controlling an oven for baking bread by a computer (not some special control mechanism, but the general method!) is already patented in 11 EU countries by an IP company from Hongkong - only that this and others 'logic' patents are currently not enforceable (because they were issued in plain violation of applicable law) but will become so if the directive goes through unchanged!

Either call by phone, FAX or eMail (maybe better FAX as the I-Worm.Swen virus is flooding all mailboxes at the moment) but please make yourself heared!

The correct links are

http://swpat.ffii.org/papiere/eubsa-swpat0202/plen 0309/index.en.html
http://swpat.ffii.org/papiere/eubsa-swpat0202/plen 0309/kond/index.en.html

(Just remove the space in the one of the original posting)

From four personal letters I wrote to my MEPs I received two answers. Please _do_ write you MEPs, be polite and describe the facts clearly - most of them do not know what the impact of this directive would be as they don't have the IT background.

Tell them that the implications of this directive are far reaching and would have a negative impact on most EU providers, IT and software companies - including everyone running a web shop. The only groups clearly profiting from it are the ones most vocal behind it - patent lawyers and large foreign companies with an already filled-up-to-the-brink patent portfolio.

Tell them that it would affect more people than just the IT industry, software designers, programmers, e.g. AFAIK Baking bread - controlling an oven for baking bread by a computer (not some special control mechanism, but the general method!) is already patented in 11 EU countries by an IP company from Hongkong - only that this and others 'logic' patents are currently not enforceable (because they were issued in plain violation of applicable law) but will become so if the directive goes through unchanged!

Either call by phone, FAX or eMail (maybe better FAX as the I-Worm.Swen virus is flooding all mailboxes at the moment) but please make yourself heared!

Similar events will be organized across Europe, in Madrid, Poland, Duesseldorf, Berlin, Paris, ...

Sept 23 there will be a demonstration in Strassbourg. And another Online demo will be started.
http://wiki.ael.be/index.php/InfoStands
http://wiki.ael.be/index.php/OnlineDemo

The poster implicitly assumes that he has unencumbered alternatives to .NET. That may be wrong. Who knows how many patents Python infringes? Perl?

Get used to it. Even though Python was both invented and coded by Guido van Rossum, someone else may hold crucial patents. The only way to be sure is to check all applicable patents. If you don't feel like that either just ignore the question, or fight software patents

Some companies are relatively benign, and IBM is an example of this.

IBM haven't always been benign, aren't everywhere benign, and there's no guarantee at all that they'll always be benign in future.

Sadly, the software patent battle highlighted here and here might halt further development of such great ideas, ideas such as Knoppix.

I don't like software patents, either. But had MS ever actually sued another company over one of their software patents?

No large patent holder has to actually do this. IBM holds the most patents and they said in their "Think" magazine that they get 10X the value from cross-licensing that they do from licensing patents. Considering suing for infringement involves spending money, not necessarily making money, it stands to reason that cross-licensing would still be far more valuable than winning patent infringement lawsuits too.

Also, consider the scare factor.

RMS happened to browse the weekly patent column in the New York Times when he came across a listing for a patent that appeared to cover a data compression method that the GNU project was going to use in a compressor they were about to release. That patent, and the implicit threat of losing an infringement lawsuit, killed this program before it was released. Nobody had to sue the FSF to get this result. Later the GNU project released gzip which went on to become a defacto standard, but it would have been nice if we could compete (as you say) "on actually making and selling software" instead of locking up ideas in an artificial economy so as to kill competition before it has a chance to benefit the end-user. RMS describes the experience and explodes the myth of patents benefitting software developers in his talk (or if you prefer, read the transcript).

"If people had understood how patents would be granted when most of today's ideas were invented and had taken out patents, the industry would be at a complete standstill today. [...] The solution is patenting as much as we can. A future startup with no patents of its own will be forced to pay whatever price the giants choose to impose. That price might be high. Established companies have an interest in excluding future competitors."

Patents push people into an arms race of sorts--as Gates obliquely illustrates, the patent system makes people react out of fear, not what's in the best interests of community or consumers. By creating this system and issuing software patents, the US Government has abdicated any desire to allow consumers to benefit by picking from a healthy competitive marketplace. After hearing what RMS has to say, I don't see how anyone can come away thinking those who don't sue for infringement are substantially better than those who do.

Here's a few MSFT software patents.

Bill Gates started out very critical of software patentability, but now that microsoft are the dominant monopoly rather than the darling new industry players, he's switched sides. Patents are, and have always been, a way for industry incumbents to fight upstarts. The "rewarding inventors" line has always been pure propaganda - for every inventor they reward, many are crushed. That's why one of the first things Americans did when leaving the British Empire was stop honouring British patents.

That said, IBM are the largest software patenters, not microsoft.

No, copyright is not patent, but Microsoft holds both.