Slashdot Mirror
More Linux Activity in German Government
"9 more cities in Rheinland-Pfalz, including the capital Mainz, are seriously considering to replace most, if not all of their Microsoft software with Linux after their current contracts expire in early 2004, noting that there are many other cities in a similar situation, and with similar plans.
Meanwhile, the police in Niedersachsen (german) is busy rolling out RedHat Linux on 11,620 desktops and 120 servers, running both standard Linux software and a custom information system called "Nivadis" based on WebLogic and Oracle running on Itanium servers, citing savings of about EUR 20 Mio compared with a Windows-based solution.
In a less desktop-related project, the state Mecklenburg-Vorpommern started a project with SuSE, IBM and others porting a mission-critical system called ProFiskal from Reliant Unix to Linux on zSeries, again citing cost as the primary reason, but also noting the benefits of using open standards for both software developers and users."
If these initial deployments are successful, and the organizations see real benefits from their switch to Linux then it could be the start of a wave of Linux deployments across Europe, at least in public organizations such as these.
.... So we can only hope it goes well!
However, if there are problems with some of them it could hold up the acceptance of Linux (etc.) for some while
It would be funny if the rest of world used Linux while the United States uses Windows. It would be just like the current state of measurement in this world, where the United States uses imperial and the rest of the world uses metric.
Making a killing from "licencing fees" on all those illegal Linux boxes
Just my stab at SCO for the day.
what kind of plugin do i need to run linux on that?
AC writes "The decision of the bavarian capital city Munich to switch their political systems to Communism has caused a lot of discussion, and has been widely regarded as an important step for Communism in Germany. And even if the Nazis tried hard to make their offerings more attractive since, including a special license contract killing that could save the public sector 'a lot of money' according to interior minister Bill Gatez, it looks as if Munich was only the beginning."
It's easy when you know how.
The more they cut prices in order to stave off linux, the more evident it is how overpriced their list prices are. Instead of trying to compete on price, they should be trying to compete on features such as easy management, and security...
Unfortunately for Microsoft, security isn't exactly their strength, and neither is easy management now that Linux has matured so much.
More like Capitalist (Microsoft) vs Socialist (Linux).
Sure, mod me down, but you still know it's true.
While historically (as short as that may be), people
ventured to America for myriad reasons; political,
religious, economic, prosperity etc. Many of those
things aren't really tangible except in the minds of
the people. The first time in America's history,
people migrate to Russia, Europe and China for
technological freedom among other associative
properties like jobs. I'm certainly keeping my
options open, getting a CE degree what good is
it in America when all the jobs are going overseas?
Maybe there is some use to the two years of foriegn language required in US academic institutions.
And thanks to Munich FFII Germany has the strongest anti-swpat movement...
In Munich they demontrated together with a social democrat politician Lochner-Fischer (Member of Bavarian House of representatives) that capaigned for Linux! See this picture with her election campaign banners.
Also European MEP Wolfgang Kreissl-Dorfler hold a speech at FFII demo munich.
German Wiki page about Munich demo
Note: As a Northern German I don't like Bavarian culture, but Munich is special, less ultra-conservative than the rest of Bavaria. As an European I am proud of the leading role of Europe in the current silent Open Source revolution.
Which part of billions of dollars in Linux revenue don't you understand?
Trusted Computing FAQ | Free Dawit Isaak!
... since here (Germany) exists (at least from my point of view) the tradition to invest large amounts of money in 'government software projects' that turn out to be scrap in the end. If it works fine, this for sure will boost the acceptance of LINUX since the public sector (still) is an important customer to deal with. CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
Surely Capitalism should be contrasted to Communism as opposed to Socialism? One can have a capitalist and socialist system. eg the Labour party in the UK is socialist (ok, you can stop laughing now) yet the system is still capitalist.
A better comparison would be between conservatism (sticking to the old ways) and socialism (supposedly fairer and more inclusive of society).
Or are you referring to the future profits that will bring to someone?
BOO! TERRO
...citing savings of about EUR 20 Mio compared with a Windows-based solution.
Is that 20 M Euros or 20 Mibi-Euros? Either 20.000.000 EUR or 20.971.520 EUR. It's important to know these things.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
More like Coercive (Microsoft) vs. Cooperative (Linux).
All them little Marxists at IBM seem to be in agreement. ;-)
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
So it's more like free speech vs. government / corporation power. Liberalism if you will. Very soon quite a few corporations will be as powerful as governments anyway and some already are.
We are all individualists!
If you're on an NT-descended Windows, look in the event viewer. The cause of the problem may be there. Also check the task manager: if you see mozilla there, kill it and restart the app. Winamp 2.91 freezes on me like that sometimes. I have to kill the program through the task manager, and then it mysteriously starts without a hitch.
We were a former colony and have been using metric units for a long time. People would laugh if you used Farenheit.
This is indeed only the beginning. People all over the globe are becoming sick of paying big bucks for buggy OSes. (Particularly the kind of OS that forces reboots for program crashes.)
Microsoft better get their act together if they intend on staying competitive. Linux is slowly eroding their market share.
!@#$% whole-grain cereal. When I want fiber, I eat some wicker furniture. - G. Carlin
How is Microsoft coercive? No-one's forcing you to buy and use their software.
BOO! TERRO
Trusted Computing FAQ | Free Dawit Isaak!
1) Why are you here refreshing Slashdot at 2.30 in the morning. 2) There are other countries besides your own. Guess what, we all live in different timezones. Just proves that Americans assume the world revolves around them.
http://www.lochner-fischer.de/themel/linux1.htm
Lets's have a look at the source code....(http://www.lochner-fischer.de/the/thefri
which isn't totally owned by the industry and where the goverment strives to work in the interest of their citizens. The situation in the US is much worse they even start wars just to give some companies more revenues. This makes me wonder when France starts to adopt Linux.
Owner of a Mensa membership card.
Ah, should have said sales, not revenue ;-). But then again, those are just the sales at two companies. There are large numbers of small business worldwide living off Linux.
Trusted Computing FAQ | Free Dawit Isaak!
Microsoft has adopted an extremely powerful public relations method, but it is a self-destructive one: Microsoft has declared that its software dies, regardless of how many users it has.
Linux, in contrast, offers software that lives forever, if an organization wants to support it. This makes a big difference to large organizations. There are many, many situations where a 350 MHz Pentium I computer running some data entry system is just fine, especially when it has been completely debugged and is giving no trouble.
When Microsoft enforces software death, those organizations must disturb something that is working well. As you can imagine, they are extremely reluctant to do so. The issue is often not money. The issue is often management capability. There is plenty of work to do without disturbing something that is working well.
From the IT World article:
"The cost of licensing Microsoft products and the lack of support for some of them, such as the NT operating system, which is still used widely in many city administrations, are among the chief reasons for the nine German cities to mull a switch from the U.S. software giant to providers of open-source products, he said." [My emphasis, of course.]
Not only do Microsoft's products regularly die, but Microsoft has a schedule of assisted suicide: Windows Desktop Product Life Cycle Support and Availability Policies for Businesses. Bill Gates has become the Dr. Jack Kevorkian of software. Mr. Gates has, for example, decreed the death of Windows 98, which is used by at least 50,000,000 people throughout the world.
Alternatively, in English:
;-)
Rheinland-Pfalz => Rhineland Palatinate
Niedersachsen => Lower Saxony
Mecklenburg-Vorpommern => Mecklenburg and Western Pomerania
Next you'll be spelling Hanover with two ns
SuSE ? Redhat ? Mandrake ? Lindows ? Does anyone has an idea on which company will get the deal ?
However I think Microsoft will win the battle : this company is associated with Siemens (a local hardware manufacturer) and can cut this price iff 90%. No company can compete with it anyway.
Essentially, communism is a utopic regime. Realistically, socialism is as close to communist doctrins as any country has gone.
Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
That is a "problem" with the shop - not with Microsoft's software.
Besides, if your workplace has a policy of only using software from a single manufacture - it makes sense to have a homogeneous envirnoment, you know - it's just that: a company policy. You do your work with the tools you've been given. Or do you perhaps complain about the color of your computer or your cubicle walls too?
Or people who buy an OEM boxen and have Windows XP shoved in their face on first boot?
So, you would like to coerce technically less adept people into making decisions about their operating system or even coerce them into installing it?
If you insist on having Linux on your box, it's not really that hard to shove in a RedHat 9 disc and boot...
BOO! TERRO
even if Microsoft tried hard to make their offerings more attractive since, including a special license contract that could save the public sector 'a lot of money' according to interior minister Otto Schily, it looks as if Munich was only the beginning."
IMHO I think this is somewhat of a political move coming out of Germany, combined with the fact that MS has had MAJOR problems within the past few months with worms and all...
Now when I say political I mean maybe Germany doesn't want to spend their money on US products based on the tension between the US and Germany that started with the war somehow. It would also be benificial to Germany if say they were to choose SuSE for a distro of choice, maybe that would become a Euro standard distro of sorts. Something similar to what US companies think of when Linux comes to mind... Redhat. Sure geeks think of other distros, but have you ever mentioned Slackware, or Stampede to a CEO? Chances are he's heard of Redhat but not Slack, Debian, etc.
Let's not forget that nice little letter that went out earlier this month to the Dept. of Homeland Sec., which vendors asked the US gov to reconsider their use of MS products. Hell if US companies are turning their backs on MS, then why would foreigners want to use it.
MoFscker
Don't forget that many people are effectively forced into buying Windows.
I work at a small-to-medium sized company (about 1500 people, 250 of which use computers) that uses both Windows and Linux. We like open software, but when decisions have to be made about vertical applications specific to our organization, or when we consider practical facts of life like suppliers sending documents in office formats or computer suppliers not wanting to sell systems without Windows license, we are certainly driven towards Windows all the time.
Driven so strongly that you could call it forcing.
We use Mozilla, we use StarOffice, we use Apache, we use OpenLDAP and a Linux IMAP server, we use an open-source calendaring system (webCalendar), but for how long?
What if the next application insists on Outlook and Office for integration (this threat really exists, as the supplier of that application is a Microsoft shop)?
Maybe when you are a hobbyist at home, no-one is forcing you to buy Windows. Maybe if you are a large corporation or government agency that can develop its own software or can force open-software compatability when buying things, you are not forced.
But a big section in the middle really IS forced to buy Windows. And Microsoft, realizing that, is increasing their activity precisely on that sector.
can anyone say haliburton?
Finnar, dom super och sticker oss med kniv
zigenare snattar och for ett javla liv
araber har analsex med vara vackra barn
och judarna ager allt i halva stan
En neger medfor smitta och har kuk som en banan
han alskar blonda flickor och gor alltid dom med barn
kineser ger oss skitmat av ratta, katt och hund
var inbundenhet och radsla haller oss pa vakt varenda stund
http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=capitalism
'nough said
I think this is common in all places of the Aerth. However, the Green Party proposed a Bundesstiftung Open Source. This may be very intresting as far as Open Source programmers don't have to work according to the V-Model of software development.
No, you were correct. Revenue is sales, profit is what the other poster is referring to.
That my friend, is the effect of coercion - if not directly on you as the user, then certainly as a consequence of coercive pressure on the manufacturer/OEM/vendor.
But, your handle marks you 9/10ths troll already.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Not everyone lives on your timezone. In Finland it is 13:45.
FY for fan, for en lecker dikt!
Du e vel en av dom som mordade Anna Lindh?
atalad for flera fall av grov misshandel, narkotikabrott och valdsamt motstand
--Svullo
And you know why? Because most people would still buy Windows machines and as a result it would not be profitable to diversify the range of pre-installed operating systems.
Sure Microsoft has made exclusive deals with the hardware manufacturers: if the OEM wants serious bulk discounts on the Windows, they must sell only Windows computers. But that's business! Blame the OEMs for signing such deals - don't blame Microsoft for doing smart business. RedHat and the others are free to propose similar schemes.
BOO! TERRO
"socialism plus electricity"
In America that is stuff you will sometimes have access to, while at other times you wish you had it.
Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
Maybe not the world, but the internet does.
en av dom?
What our friend Elektroschock fails to mention is, that Bavaria is the most successful state in Germany, with low unemployment, low state debt and good education - especially compared to northern states.
So please spare us the rhetorics about bavarian conservatism and catholicism.
Bavaria feature also a high percentage of IT industry: Apple, Adobe, Microsoft, Suse, Ingram Micro etc. have all their german HQs in Bavaria.
And Bavarians are as corrupt as anyone else.
If you have a problem with people loving their Laptops and Lederhosen, like Scotts like their Kilts and Whiskeys, then you should reeducate yourself with cross cultural understanding.
Bavaria is simple a state/tribe with a high cultural identity plus some some business sense. Plus most foreigners identify Oktoberfest, Lederhosen, the Alps, Jodeln, Beer (Law of purity) and Humpa music with Germany, although these are local bavarian traits.
orangeguru - neither a big fan of Bavaria nor King Stoiber
det var Dick o Bush ju
... Microsoft has recently added BMW boss Helmut Panke to its board of directors [1] - a move to get more insight into the German political system?
And a German Member of Parliament, Ekin Deligoz, recently said (on TV) that she thought it was frightening "if you think about how much money Microsoft invests into their parliament work". [2]
Both links in German language only, unfortunately:
[1] Heise
[2] 3sat
Trusted Computing FAQ | Free Dawit Isaak!
So, you would like to coerce technically less adept people into making decisions about their operating system or even coerce them into installing it?
Heh. Characterizing choice as coercion. I love it.
Best troll ever!
You two, quit it with that foreign shit. If you've got something to say post in English. Especially if you're bashing someone like Bush.
I think one oft-unspoken reason overseas governments contemplate wholesale adoption of open source solutions is that doing so creates a lot of high-end local IT jobs (e.g., software development and support). This offers the prospect of creating more in-country "silicon valleys" and the possibility of local "dot.boom" economies.
Open source may have the advantage of better access to legacy civil documents and lower TCO, but the real motivation of politicians is getting re-elected, and job creation is always a good way to do that.
I hope that after I die the one word people use to describe me is "resurrected."
This also raises the issue of interoperability in-between (the different levels) of authorities.
Given the (low) budgets this may end in a 'victory' for LINUX (within 10 years or so).
CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
Several years ago, I was testing CuSeeMe for my department. I usually went to a Japanese reflector (to avoid all most of the flasher losers). Every now and then some dumb Yank (I'm American too) would get all angry because they could read what was being written by many of Japanese (I installed a program to let me at least see the Japanese characters--couldn't understand it but it was mighty purdy).
"Write in English *@!" they would type.
Remember this was on a Japanese server. Many of the users were very poor writers of English.
Yeah and among the otehr descriptions you see finaly this:
:-) capitalism is a economical system, communism is a ideology and democracy is political system.
... and so you construct a way votings are issued and votes are counted that everybody thinks he has a fair vote ... and you allways wonder who that other dumb guy won the elections.
... that was sarcastic ... if you want to compare democracy ... compare it with republic, monarchy, oligarchy ... dictatorship or what ever. Communism and capitalism and democracy are three words from three only slightly related disjunct cathegories.
Synonyms:
commercialism, competition, democracy , free enterprise, free market, industrialism, laissez faire, mercantilism, private enterprise
Unfortunatlly that s wrong
In other words: in capitalizm you belive that "money" is "power" and that all people having "money" are allowed to use that power "unrestricted".
In communism you believe that the main industries necessary for the community to survive: that is agriculture, heavy industries, energy industry, transportation and mining industries etc. should not belong to individual persons, or "capitalistic" persons but to the commnity, or the state.
In democracy you believe even the dumbest moron is allowed to vote
Erm
angel'o'sphere
inally a person who has
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Replace my Windows with Linux? They can pry it from my cold, dead fingers...
Easy, Mr. Gates, easy...
---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
Ben moi je trouve qu'ils ont raison... Meme si tu as plus de chance de me lire que eux, je les encourage dans leur protestation sur le nombrilisme americain !
Canada, having one of the most active e-governments in the world, is also being actively woo-ed by linux. At the chateau laurier in ottawa I attended the linux conference by IBM and while they did seem to ramble abit, they were being taken very seriously by the people in attendance. I guess the high amount of online government computers for vital functions probably plays a big part in most peoples minds about what sort of security and stability they want when it comes to their servers.
Ich kenne keine Nationen mehr, ich kenne nur noch Linux! (paraphrase of Wilhelm II, I don't know nations anymore, I only know linux)
My TiBook is certainly without M$ Window$!! And don't come tell me PowerBooks are not one of the "major Laptop"!?!?!!!
The point of both the Slashdot story and my grand-parent comment is that Microsoft is killing future profits completely by being aggressive. Supposedly the aggressive behavior is an attempt to get more profit, but in reality it is a strong bid to get zero profits, and fast.
Once the German government switches entirely to Linux, Microsoft will not make another penny from that source. The draconian, one-sided licensing changes would not in themselves be enough to push customers away from Microsoft. It is software death that is perhaps the aggression that is most disliked by customers. The Microsoft license cost is small compared to buying 20,000 new computers because Windows XP won't run on hardware that works well with Windows 98. That's the sort of problem huge organizations face.
Of course, fundamentally, licensing and software death are not as important as the fact that Microsoft's international government customers are under the control of a foreign company controlled in part by a foreign government that runs the biggest spy organizations that have ever existed. Who was using the Microsoft security vulnerabilities before they became publicly known?
Anglo-Saxons are also Germanic.
I really hope this movement will change the opinions of most teachers here.
In our schools here in Germany, they teach you the
'work' with Windows as it is the industry standard and got no alternatives.
At least at our school we got one teacher who really is pro-linux. He uses Debian, doesnt like Microsoft, is happy about the current movement and teaches the histroy of Linux, installation of Debian and configuration/installation of various services.
And beleive me, thats thousand times more interesting than clicking through a Windows application installer...
--
One by one the penguins steal my sanity...
management purchases are for. They already have Office + Exchange locking in lots of folks. Just as alternatives to those begin looking realistic, might as well tie them to accounting...
Blogging because I can...
Capitalism vs. Socialistism
Even though you meant it as an insult and this line has been FUDed to death it still bears looking at.
MS got nailed for being a monopolists. That is that one company is in control. Worse yet, it is because they throw there weight around and make other companies do what they want. And if they do not do it, then MS would put them out of business (death penalty).
That is not capitalism.
Linux and BSD is offered for free. But only at its' code. The real money (and costs) in any OS is not the code, but in the support. That is offered for free by enthusiasts, but also for money by companies. In fact, it is in service that companies such as Redhat and SUSE are making profits. Others are trying to but still digging out of the dotcom line of thought (Mandrake). And others tought that they could do an MS approach (sell the binary and offer no real support) to Linux (Caldera being the most infamous), but in a competitive environment, it is impossible due to the fact that Linux is offered freely.
BTW, Linux keeps winning awards for support. Since it is offered for free via enthusiast, the capitalists companies have to work harder to make sure that they offer more for lower costs. But hey, that is what true capitalism does.
Linux is the most pure capitalism play, where only bottled water is more pure (pune intended).
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
The Market is taking off anytime soon over here. I just had a 2 hour talk on the phone with one of the large players on the german internet bookmarket. One thing that everyone with knowlege of the material predicted shows clearly:
The people are fed up with proprietary software inable to takle proprietary problems and won't take MS & co. any much longer. The market is clearly shifting to a much more service oriented one with OSS taking a lead in that area and Germany, as many thought would happend, is one of the first to adapt to that. I'm kinda glad I saw that coming 2 years ago.
It's just like John 'Maddog' Hall said at the Keynote at Linuxtag this year: Software needs to be free, the solutions built with it need be proprietary.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
The project proper will not be contracted out before 2004, folks, even if the press would like to use the hype for more. What exactly will be done, and what Office suite will be used isn't decided yet. So keep cool.
open (SIG, "</dev/zero"); $sig = <SIG>; close SIG;
"... More like Capitalist (Microsoft) vs Socialist (Linux). ..."
Sorry, but You probably know nothing about socialism. Ask to someone who live (or lived) in eastern europe (before 1989)
Pretty much what ever they need.
Until apps are ported or replaced,wine will suffice.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
You meant Monopoly capitalism (MS, software patents) against Free Market (Linux, Open Source, Open Standards)?!
But let's not forget that part of this tradition is to always involve the Deutsche Telekom AG as contracter, which always done to make sure that it really get screwed up.
(For the non-German readers: The Deutsche Telekom is the leading telecommunications provider in Germany, and developed from the government-run post and telecommunications authorities. Since privatization it uses its still nearly-monopoly to annoy everybody whop wants a phone landline with bad service.
The Telekom also does IT projects and was involved in several major screw-ups: Last year, the failure of a 10-year project to put all the different states' policy IT systems on a compatible standard, and this year the miss of the deadline for the new radio transmitter based truck toll system, now costing Germany hundreds of illions of Euros in lost toll income. (Of course, in all these, the Telekom was only one contractor, but still, to me, a paatern emerges.)
Luckily, up to my knowledge, they don't engage in Linux.)
Forbannat vara dig, din horunga av en amerikan.
Vi tar for fan inte ta korrex av et pucko som dig eller dina.
Please quit holding the idioacy of some against all Americans. We're really not as ignorant as some seem to think, at least in comparison to everyone else in the world.
Isn't stereotyping other people the sort of thing Americans get such a bad wrap for?
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
You know, over here we don't take kindly to you freedom-hating frenchmen (or those weird french-speaking canadians)!
Never understood this argument.
I can see keeping Mr. Softy for user desktops--I deem the likelihood of _any_ open source office suite offering the level of integration you get with MSOffice anytime soon to be less than great.
But for server-side products, why pay the MS tax?
The "you're a socialist for not playing along with my platform lock-in" sounds like a sheer whining to me.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Congratulations.
Mod down this racist piece of shit!
It's simple economics. Why send money out of the country when you don't have to? That is truly a testament to the power of Microsoft's monopoly.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Or will you tell me that there will be no Bush, Clinton or Kennedy in office in the next 20 years?
This is probably only the tip of the iceburg. Apparently if you haven't yet seen Micro$oft's EULA's that they now include in all their updates, you have missed the boat off this island.
They now are installing software to "check your license validity" with all the updates, and you have to agree to this in order to install and use the updates.
I happened to paruse the EULA's with Directx 9 and Media Player 9, and both of them contain these requirements that you click through and allow them to spy on you, and what you have in your computer. On one machine, I allowed it and had Sygate installed to catch stuff, and sure enough, some stuff was trying to get out to the internet as soon as stuff was finished loading. I didn't have time or a way of looking at the packets, and what DLL's were doing it but suffice to say my suspicions were raised when the machine starts up and takes an unusual amount of time to boot, and my HD light was on for a really long time.
Talk about the "New World Order" or what???!!!!!!!! Bastards.
I'm very closely scrutinizing my Laptop since it has Windows XP Pro on it, and already discovered NOT to trust the Microsoft firewall that comes with XP!!! Apparently they might be caught with the pants down if you have Sygate, or ZD's firewalls, and if people are actually willing to try them also.
I have to try the new browsers soon as I'm going back to experimenting with Linux and BeOS (rogue versions and my legit Pro 5 ed).
Cheers;
Jeff
All content in this message is copyright (c) 2008. All rights reserved. RIAA is prohibited here.
This Swede is scaring me! Oh no! But I don't care. As a Swede too, I've decided that I'm going to move from Sweden as soon as I can afford it. Why? Sweden has a terrible welfare, the worlds highest taxes, and a really weak currency. All that adds up to that Sweden is a terrible country.
But the worst part is the snob attitude that all the inhabitants seem to have... As if our voice is more meaningfull because "we're independent" and "have the best welfare" (we used to -- 30 years ago!). You know as well as I that Sweden is a tiny country with only nine million people. There's nothing special about Sweden at all! We can't do jack shit to influence the world and politics. Please continue with your anti americanism and wall ourselves in to spare us from the rest of the world with our stupid politics and views.
Du ska fan tacka USA for att du inte ar en inavlad slav i Nazi Tyskland din javla skit...
And being grateful means that I'm not allowed to criticize them?
One day I'll find out why "socialist" appears to be a dirty word on Slashdot. One day.
Replace my Windows with Linux? They can pry it from my cold, dead fingers...
And some day you can look as pathetic and forlorn as the BeOS, Amiga, and OS/2 die-hards. That's quite a dream you have there.
Oh, bullshit.
I was one of those Americans (From the US even, as a Mexican, Canadian, Brazillian, etc, would point out - they're Americans, too) who read the article, and you know what? I'm in complete agreement with the moves toward Linux and further am in the process of standardizing the servers I manage at work - on SuSE of all things. I'm not doing this out of some rebellious anti-allegiance or anything else so immature - I'm doing this because of all the distros I've tried, which is pretty much all of them, I like SuSE best and can teach others to use it when I leave. I mean, RedHat's allright, and I'm glad to hear that they are making money - they are a Linux company after all, but I go with what works best for the needs of the organization I work for.
In other words, it's the rational choice and, despite your apparent flame, there are millions upon millions of people in the US who are capable of making rational decisions independent of any jingoism being preached upon them by the media, etc. I'm more than happy to say "Fuck Microsoft" no matter what country it has its headquarters in - I live about six hours drive from Redmond, in fact. So when you flame an entire country claiming that we are all a bunch of jingoistic uber-patriotic idiots, you become what you accuse us of. Shame on you!
political_news.c: warning: comparison is always true due to limited range of data type
If it was approximately 2:30 Sunday where the original poster was when he posted at 6:10 Sunday Slashdot Time (-0700), then he's probably a bloody Samoan. This just proves those fat bastards assume the world revolves around them.
No, the above 33 rants proves you are a windoze fanatic...
Your website shouldn't be 'DrunkenIdiot.com' - should just be 'FuckenIdiot.com'.
Okay, so apparently slashdot displays times using a timezone that depends on whether or not you are logged in, causing great confusion among pinheads. Samoa, I apologize.
(Support costs are a red herring. Auto companies don't re-engineer cars after the warranty/recall period, and they don't even stock parts after a decade or so. There is a large network of independent mechanics and parts vendors which support old vehicles long after the maker has stopped spending a cent on them. There is no reason that Microsoft couldn't do something similar with old software.)
We're looking at the same thing with software. The upgrade treadmill and patch-compatibility problems drive people nuts and impose huge costs, and they're looking to get off. But upgrades and maintenance are the only way that Microsoft can have a consistent and growing revenue stream; Microsoft's business model is directly opposed to the interest of their customers. Something's got to give under all this pressure, and right now the bulging inner tube poking through the rip in the tire sidewall has a smiling penguin on it.
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
And everybody not having enough money to lobby will be named "serf" while the other depending how much money thay have will be named "count", "duke", "baron" and "king". There is a reason some country are in democraty/republic. One of such was to have each citizen equal to each other independantly to possession/birth/religion. Your "too bad" for me is really a synonym of what has became far too bad in our society. And this is something innecceptable.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
It's is reference to the movie "Bowling for Columbine" where the leader of the National Rifles and Gun Associations (Charles Heston I think) states exactly that.
Taking in that context I think it's a joke.
A simple economic motion and the entire domino theory is proven, only the trouble starts in Western Europe this time instead of repeating itself in Eastern Europe.
One wise little action and the entire connotation of the word 'Munich' changed. I'm sure Chamberlain's descendants are breathing a collective sigh of relief.
If we continue marching backward through time what else do we see happening in Munich?
Germany was hundreds of principalities with no sense of nationalism until the fire of the French revolution followed by Napolean drove them to it. Perhaps we should all be seeing Darl McBride in a triangular hat feather and his hand tucked into his pants?
One has to look at Micrsoft's behavior in the same sort of manner as the German barons of the East Elbe during the beginning of the 19th century. Tax farmers, they are, treating the peasants as chattel. And the end of this whole mess is started by one rebel in the Baltic. Isn't the German/English meaning just delicious - those East Elbe tax farmers were known as "Junkers".
The parallels are there - history DOES repeat itself, although in this case instead of a GNU like recursion we're seeing a strange sort of historical palindrome metaphor.
I am very easy to get along with, but I don't have time to waste being nice to people who are being stupid. -Theo
Build your own computers, and that problem is gone. As for Office formats, that's a load of FUD; you can read those with open-source software.
swept through europe a long time ago, it is now haunting America. w00t!
it is pretty tough but we as a company we are steadily moving small to medium size companies off of microsoft/mac and onto linux we start with 'one person' then a department then another and another till the company is off -- the selling points are better applications, more stability and cheaper
More like Tyrannical Captialism for Microsoft.
Same the world over, the source of the problem usually being a combination of corporate lies ("our software will make you more productive!") and the fact that the high up people making the decisions often know very little about the subject they are making decisions for.
Bush and Blair ate my sig!
In a nutshell.
Office formats, yes.
Office integration, no.
When an application interfaces with Word or Excel that does not mean it works with Staroffice or Openoffice. Could be working, but usually isn't.
But I don't think you will understand this.
And you know why? Because most people would still buy Windows machines and as a result it would not be profitable to diversify the range of pre-installed operating systems.
All I asked Dell for was a laptop with no OS installed. They refused to offer it. How does that require a significant non-profitable investment? They can allow the buyer to slash $50-$150 off the retail price (which Dell makes no money on anyway).
Sure Microsoft has made exclusive deals with the hardware manufacturers: if the OEM wants serious bulk discounts on the Windows, they must sell only Windows computers. But that's business!
They sure have. So exclusive that the FTC has forced Microsoft to add a refund clause to the Windows EULA (see first paragraph).
So exclusive that Dell refuses to honor the refund clause, despite all force of law requiring them to comply.
I'm doing my part as a participant of capitalism by taking them to court for non-compliance.
http://www.bluelinux.org/ might be the next stunner for linux on the desktop, if you think about it, mandrake and redhat.. mandake is trying to be everything, a developer os, a server os and a user OS at once, giving you bloat, unneeded services, longer boot time with services no desktop user is going to use, etc.. redhat, server os, why is it on the desktop? Lindows, no. just.. no. SusE, dunno on this one, I've never ventured into it at all. maybe it'll be a little unheard of distro that might help linux get on the desktop, it has the stuff. since it's targeted towards education (desktop users, basically) it's perfect for a desktop OS. who knows? we'll see what will come out on top.. the next decade is going to be VERY interesting. well, we'll find out in 2013. ;)
So what you are saying, is that anyone can practice the "sharp business" tactics that MS employs. Large discounts in exchange for exclusive preload installs. This tactic almost guarentees the dominant player will become a monopoly in the preload market. Can I ask how RedHat or Sun or IBM can use these same tactics? To "break in" they have to become the dominant player first - and MS is already there locking them out. Quality of product or a growing base of "private installs" has nothing to do with it. As long as that "growing base" is less than dominant, then MS will totally "own" the preinstall market, which slows (or even totally blocks) the growth of any other OS.
MS got there first and has carefully crafted it's "business plans" to guarentee they stay there, regardless of changing customer needs or desires. The very fact that other operating systems *do* manage to get installed and have a growing base is a measure of how fed up people are. They have a much bigger hurdle to jump (it doesn't come nicely preinstalled) when moving to an alternative to MS.
I am amazed at people that spout the "anybody else could do it if they really wanted to" line when it comes to the MS monopoly in the preinstall market - as you do. Either your logic or understanding of the market econonomics is totally flawed, or you are a simply a troll spouting some nonsensical MS party line.
Why is this modded up as +4? Can you buy a Powerbook without OSX?
Hey, dumbass, ever heard the phrase "vote with your dollars"? Not everything is disjoint.
Because you're dirty, hippy.
That's why CrossOver Office exists. You CAN run Microsoft Office 2000 and most of XP on Linux now, so this argument as far as Microsoft is concerned is invalid.
But I do see your point.
I recently looked at purchasing a Linux laptop. I talked with Sony, IBM, HP, Dell, and Qli Tech.
None (except Qli, of course) would sell me a Linux laptop. Not even one without any OS.
Indeed, one (either HP or Dell; I'm currently thinking HP) outright said, "Microsoft does not allow us to sell computers without an operating system."
What the hell business is it of Microsoft's what the hardware vendors do w.r.t. selling the vendors' hardware ?! Sure, it may or may not make sense for the vendor to sell an OS-less PC from a demand standpoint, but why should an OS vendor be able to force a hardware vendor to do anything? Especially since a no-software PC would be potentially hundreds of dollars cheaper, making it more popular, especially to cash-strapped businesses who already have licenses they could use when they discard the old PCs, or coming from a deal with Microsoft?
I can see it from Microsoft's point of view just fine--if they can get the vendor to do it. It makes sure they get some cash if the end user installs a "pirated" version of Windows. It also gives them an extra kickback, since the user company likely has a deal with Microsoft for the desktop OS licenses (i.e. the end user business pays twice). It also adds extra cost to the TCO of running another OS on the desktop, since they have to pay Microsoft for it, and would have to install the OS themselves.
Bottom line: great deal for Microsoft, a not-so good deal for the hardware vendor, and the end user gets screwed (increased cost for switching to or just using another OS if they stay with a known, trusted (and potentially contracted) vendor; have to pay twice plus if they're going to use Microsoft software).
Why do the vendors do it? Well, if they don't follow what Microsoft says, they have to pay (and thus charge the consumer) more (up to hundreds of dollars again for the retail copy!) per computer they sell. Since most users (90+%) only know and use Windows, and since that monopoly is very entrenched, the vendors must sell Windows, or be only a small-scale vendor (like Qli) and fight to squeak by while the Big Vendors (who sell Windows to the unwashed masses) subsist of narrow margins and high volume (and drive down your price and margins, since you have to compete with them as well).
So, since you (the PC vendor) want to have the high volume (and the profits that go with that, keeping you afloat), you swallow what Microsoft pushes on you (which most end users don't care about anyway, since they only know and use Microsoft software), and get the privilege of selling discounted copies of Windows with every PC, and your users never know of alternatives to Microsoft. Sure, some new businesses occasionally pop up and might look promising (OS/2, BeOS, Linux...), but they tend to quickly go out of business, and the end users might only be vaguely aware of their existance, since you and your Big Volume Vendor competition only sell Windows to the desktop user.
That, my friend, is indirect coercion of the consumer at its penultimate brilliance (only gets better at 100% market ownership), along with direct coercion of the vendors, and is the way monopolies keep their position.
--
Given enough personal experience, all stereotypes are shallow.
Using OpenOffice was an option that I stated a few months ago. Since I'm in part responsible for the software used on the computers available for students I've talked about that with a few of my colleagues.
Unfortunately, since I'm in the chemistry department we need to do lots of data analysis like linear regressions, determine measurement errors and stuff. At the present day, OpenOffice doesn't have a data analysis system. OO spreadsheet can draw a regression line on the graph, but doesn't give me any other data such as the equation, or regression error. So, it isn't for us possible to use OpenOffice without increasing (too much) the work that as to be done.
So, for now I still have to use MS Office once in a while... But, when OOo starts having the data analysis, I'll have no problem using it... For my personal documents, I already use it...
"Eminent" means distinguished. I think you meant "imminent", which means going to happen very soon, or inevitable.
What is there that can be done with an interfacing application that can't be done with a standalone that will work even with ALL VERSIONS of Microsoft Office?
Like it or not, Windows is predominant on the desktop. If you want to teach students basic computer skills, Windows is the pragmatist's choice. Besides, some things are equal for both operating systems, so adjusting to Linux isn't that hard.
Supermarkets have to take back any unwanted packaging, and many consmuners unpack their goods when they pay for them.
Shops have to close early on Saturday afternoons and cannot open on Sundays.
I cannot think of appropriate words to describe the difference in driving techniques on freeways.
America may yet be surprised by "old" Europe.
State elections were held in Bavaria today. The social democrats fell from 28% to 18% and the conservatives achieved a 2/3 majority in the house of representatives. So much for Lochner-Fischer ...
In the US, the most common unit for beer is the "can" or "bottle", which is standardized at 12 fl. oz. Of course, you usually don't want 16 oz of our beer because it is awful if it is not cold enough to freeze your taste buds. At 12 oz, you can drink it before it warms. Most places even serve draft beer in 12 oz mugs.
There is also the "large" size, which is 20 or 22 oz, for only $1 more. But that is for after your taste buds are destroyed.
The one consolation is that better places serve Guinness. If they have it on draft, you are usually stuck with a 12 oz mug. Sometimes they serve a 16 oz can and an empty 12oz mug, but then you cannot pour it properly. The best places (usually Irish pubs) will have Guinness (and Murphy's!) on draft and serve a 16 oz mug and know how to pour it.
Several friends have been to Ireland and say that everywhere serves pints and they know how to pour a Stout.
I spend my life entertaining my brain.
> More like Capitalist (Microsoft) vs Socialist (Linux).
I'd say more like Criminal Thug (Microsoft) vs Honest Free Market Capitalist (Linux).
> How is Microsoft coercive? No-one's forcing you to buy and use their software.
."
Oh, really? Have you been living under a rock?
From the Microsoft strategy paper known as the Halloween Document:
> OSS projects have been able to gain a foothold in many server applications because of the wide utility of highly commoditized, simple protocols. By extending these protocols and developing new protocols, we can deny OSS projects entry into the market.
Microsoft memos from the DOJ case Findings of Fact:
> "We will bind the shell to the Internet Explorer, so that running any other browser is a jolting experience."
> Gates wrote, "Apple let us down on the browser by making Netscape the standard install." Gates then reported that he had already called Apple's CEO (who at the time was Gil Amelio) to ask "how we should announce the cancellation of Mac Office . . .
> In Waldman's [Microsoft executive in charge of Mac Office] words:
> "Sounds like we give them the HTML control for nothing except making IE the "standard browser for Apple?" I think they should be doing this anyway. Though the language of the agreement uses the word "encourage," I think that the spirit is that Apple should be using it everywhere and if they don't do it, then we can use Office as a club."
Microsoft memos from evidence in the Java case:
> "Strategic Objective [to] kill cross-platform Java by grow[ing] the polluted Java market"
> As reported to Bill Gates in April 1997 by the manager responsible for execution of Microsoft's strategy:
"When I met with you last, you had a lot of pretty pointed questions about Java, so I want to make sure I understand your issues/concerns...
> 1. What is our business model for Java?
> 2. How do we wrest control of Java away from Sun?
> 3. How do we turn Java into just the latest, best way to write Windows applications?"
> "At this point its [sic] not good to create MORE noise around our win32 java classes. Instead we should just quietly grow j++ share and assume that people will take advantage of our classes without ever realizing they are building win32-only java apps."
Microsoft has tried to sabotage every major competitor on the PC, from WordPerfect to Netscape, in order to make it impossible for anyone to use PC hardware without also using Microsoft software.
I think the word "coercive" doesn't go far enough.
I would use words like extortionary, fraudulent, and criminal.
Conversion to metric went pretty smoothly here, phased in over 10 years. People still use Imperial sometimes, but its pretty rare. Trying to explain Imperial to my kids is pretty bizarre because I really really hated it. "Yeah, you know 16 ozs to the pound, 14 pounds to the stone. 28 pounds to a Quarter. 112 pounds to a hundredweight and 20 hundredweights to a ton. Nowhere as much fun as: 1000 gm to a kilo and 1000 kilos to a tonne." As for acres, rods, poles, perches ... I never got the hang of that shit -- and a 100metres X 100 metres = 1 hectare is just bliss.
Bitter and proud of it.
Linux adoption in Canada is sadly lacking. The Federal Government may be looking at it, but industry and Provincial Governments are staying really close to Microsoft. Numerous reports and 'findings of fact' have concluded that it is bad bad bad. Usually the consultants are made up of people working for Microsoft, Gartner, or Microsoft and Gartner. The 'serious' people you mention...were they perhaps worried about job security and their lack of Linux skills rather than actual adoption?
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
1. Bavaria is mostly CDU/CSU state, and this parties actually were about to support the US with the war. (just today they won state parlament elections with overwhelming 60% majority (next nearest about 20%)
2. It does totaly make sense to pay less to foreign company for the product and give this money to the locals who will support the system.
3. As to the other distros, as I understand they do not really make much effort to become certifyied for enterprise scale applications. SuSE and Mandrake did.
...a stunned silence fell upon the hall.
The first city to change over and develop any specialist software for the German local government environment will have an opportunity to defray some of its costs by selling the application to other government bodies. After all their own apps don't have to be GPLed.
Bitter and proud of it.
I thought the parent post was over the top ... but this just reveals it as total crap.
Bitter and proud of it.
The worst mistake I see around is that many assume one thing implies another different thing without evidence. Free markets don't imply freedom of speech. Everything would be a lot better if it did, but you don't have to look far to find booming capitalist dictatorships in history. As far as I can see Democracy seems to work best under capitalism (and may even need it), but capitalism does not need democracy.
My 2c. But I'll sell it to you for 1.5c comrade.
Bitter and proud of it.
Australia is pretty much all metric now. About the only thing that is still measured in imperial units is peoples height. Mainly because "5 foot fuck all" and "6 footer" sounds much better than "152 centimeters fuck all" and "a 183 centimeter-er".
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
The rest of the world has better spelling though.
It's a MUCH older quote than "Bowling for Columbine". Gun advocates have been using it for decades.
These anecdotes don't really speak much for linux, but more against Microsoft in Canadian education.
In elementary school we had a lab full of PowerMacs (well, the lab got put in eventually - I had to work with an Apple II or something equally slow).
In high school, all of the labs had Windows 95/98. However, the file server and I think proxy ran Netware. The windows computers happened to be the worst setups ever - running copied versions of other lab computers that were already screwed up. No defrag in two years, and two years of software students installed (clueless student - comet and spyware). The tech guy only knew how to work with windows and netware, and his hours were cut by the government.
In university, all of the servers are non-microsoft afaik. The computer science server runs Tru64 unix, and the comp. sci.-only labs have thin clients. All of the general purpose labs however do run windows. But they are only used for internet, email, and word processing.
So windows is being used (in those situations, and *probably* many others), but only for general purpose labs. They really ought to try a thin client & server method; I'm finding it works out quite well in my comp sci classes. (would it be cost justified to turn 60 computers running windows 98 and office into 60 thin clients, one powerful server, and the manhours to get it setup correctly?). I think microsoft might be on the way out in canadian education.
Walmart makes as much as Austria, apparantly.
Big difference between theory and implementations. You wouldn't use Stalin as an example of what communism is supposed to be about, would you?
Not by calling them whores.
What's so bad about being lazy? What if there was a war and nobody showed up?
I live about six hours drive from Redmond, in fact.
Hmmm. You must live in Seattle and take WA 520 to Redmond. :)
Mod parent troll or framebait.
What is the imperial unit for the magnetic field or the permittivity? What about the disintegration rate (activity) in nuclear physics, or the mole in chemistry, etc, etc. These and many other units are old (say 100-150 years old) and DO NOT HAVE Imperial equivalents.
The metric system was "adopted" by the UK in the XIX century as part of negotiations with the French to ensure the meridian 0 passed through Greenwich, not Paris.
The British actually enacted the agreement into law (people have been taken to court for that) but was not widely enforced until recently.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Yeah right. Like IBM and Oracle are German companies.
MS has got no right to police my computer. If they want that right, though luck because I will not install any of their products for only that reason (which I have not done for 8 years).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Tomorrow you will have a visit of the companies that sold you your TV, fridge, sofa and bed.
They have the right tp check you bought legally all the stuff. Good luck findg proof of purchase of all of them.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Kaiser Wilhelm of WWI fame? One of the worst political figures in German history? Why quote such a character?
Imagine how much harder physics would be if electrons had feelings! -Feynman, maybe
Does anyone know why the 114ml "discrepancy"?
Lemme guess. The pilgrims took a pint with them, spilt some on the way, and, made a real mess of things?
Oh, thats right- people are pathologically hypersensitive around here.
The linux affect started quite some time ago, and simply reflects the kind of change and adoption of new operating systems that occured from cpm to dos and dos to windows. Microsoft is not being ignorant in what they are doing, everything they are doing is planned and calculated to generate the maximum short term profit. Microsoft new it was going to lose against Linux years ago, compulsary registration substantially increased licence fees etc. were not about increasing customers but about extracting the maximum amount of profit possible from their existing customers. Their only in intent is squeeze the maximum amount of profit possible for as long as possible from Windows NT and MS Office. All their annoucement's about new products are becoming nothing more than vapourware in order to maintain some sort of marketability in the longevity of their current product range. As such any investment in MS products now is a poor medium term investment unless they declare their willingness to port their existing product range to Linux, which of course they can't do without initiating a Linux stampede. What would be interesting would be a betting pool on when MS annouces ports MS Office to Linux (before open office etc. to much damage to MS office and TCO is calculated with the cost of retraining in MS software - Linux in Government = Linux training in schools)
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Bwahahahaha, and you believe that? Puhlease.
The meme police, They live inside of my head
The Governments are in big biz pockets. Heaven forbid something that's stable and works should make it onto their desktops for free. Thats what taxpayers are for!!! I tried online tax payment 3 years ago with Linux and Netscape. I had higher encryption levels than required but couldn't connect. Government help desk drone states, " Ummm, whats Linux?" Tried again last week, different drone - same comment.
The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs back 123456789