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Indeed, that is the danger. It should be noted too that there are reasons why the Nordic countries have been so succsessful with socialism. One, they are quite culturally homogenous, so one never feels that outsiders are leaching off of them. Two, they have a culture of cooperation brought about by extremes of climate. That's my theory, anyway.

While these factors may partially explain why Sweden and other Nordic countries have not crashed as spectacularly as other socialist movements (e.g., Germany, France, New Zealand, etc) to call their model a success would be to ignore its many current problems, its historic economic instability, and what is almost certainly a lack of sustainability of the model.

Sweden's real unemployment is estimated to be between 15 and 20%. Although their official stats count just ~6% as being unemployed, this excludes a lot of people on long-term sick leave (which count as being employed -- 16% of public spending pays for this!), welfare recipients, people that simply give up (e.g., students, early retirees, etc), etc.

What's more, many of those who are actually employed are employed by the government (about 30%). Sweden has created almost no new private sector jobs in 50 years. Only 1 of their 50 largest companies was created after 1970. Many of their biggest companies have left the country (e.g., IKEA) or moved their taxable entities outside recently. Despite having a large highly educated population, it is an unfriendly place for entrepreneurship and creates little of it due to labor laws (v. expensive to sack people), high taxation, very high sales taxes, etc.

Their tax revenues are significantly more than 50% of GDP (their middle class pay a much higher rate of tax than we do here). The Swedish people pay much higher taxes than we do across the board. They don't have a lot of wealthy people so they've been forced to raise taxes on the middle class to sustain these benefits. Some may try to excuse it as simply being a product of a welfare state, but it is a very real economic burden on their economy. For instance, their GDP per capita has fallen dramatically relative to the rest of the OECD since 1950.

Consider, for instance, that the difference in disposable income (after taxes and all social transfers) between the poorer 30 decile of income and the richest 80 decile is just 12K Krona per month (about $1500). This itself represents a small change in lifestyle but consider just how wide that gap is: the entire middle class (from poorest full-time working class and the upper middle class). There is very little incentive to work hard, to risk a stable job for a new one that might pay better, to take a new job if you get laid off (cushy benefits), to show up to work, to take a more stressful job, and to take business risks, etc. What has happened is that people are working less and less (and, ironically, many of those that want to work can't find it), taking more sick leave, etc. In fact, if you look at the number of hours worked in their economy it has fallen dramatically.

To further stress their system, Sweden's retirees is set to increase to roughly 54% of their working age people by 2050, i.e., 1 senior-pensioner for every ~2 working people (much of it happening soon). They've also acquired a significant number of foreign immigrants (many of them no longer of Nordic heritage) -- roughly 10% of the country now (who are heavily unemployed). The system is already showing signs of stress and tax payer unrest (at least 65B in overseas tax avoidance, rising non-market work, etc). Sweden an

The other factor you're not addressing, is the simple correlation between progressive taxes on the high end and quality of living, especially violent crime. You seem fond of bringing up small, anecdotal cases. Do explain to me Sweden, with high gun ownership rates and low wealth disparity managed not by an estate tax now, but by a direct, flat tax on total wealth every year. Why is it that they have one of the lowest rates of violent crime and one of the best standards of living? Note, their unemployment rate is about the same as the US.

Ahhh, does little baby want to pack up his toys and go home? Regardless of whether or not you'll respond to me (and risk getting destroyed, again), here is some more information for your edification.

Who knows, maybe you'll think twice before blindly spouting off the miracle that is Sweden...

An absolute comparison of income

Sweden's poorest 10% actually does slightly worse than their counterpart in the US in real dollar terms (PPP adjusted) even after taxes and most subsidies are taken into account. What's more, virtually every economic group above it, especially at the median and above, does significantly better.

If you're unconvinced that absolute measures of poverty "matter"..

Read Page 22

See page 17

Evidence of Sweden's declining economic status. The average Swede has lost purchasing power over the past 20 years and this effect is particularly evident when compared against the rest of Europe. They've slipped from #4 to #18 from 1970 to 1998 (an absolute loss of 17 points vs the OED average of 100).

Swedish Egalitarianism between 1903 and 2004


Evidence that Sweden had much less economic disparity before their welfare state was created due to collapse of capital markets (as opposed to the "because" that you want to believe) and that they've, in fact, followed similar economic trends.

Economist overview of Swedish economy and growing discontent amongst Swedes

A balanced article in the Economist about some not so well known facts about the Swedish economy. For instance, although they report 6% unemployment officially, they have a ton of people that actually long-term unemployed and living off the system (e.g., long term sick leave). Reliable estimates put their true unemployment closer to 15-17%. What's more, 30% of the country works for the government.

They also point out that Sweden has created virtually no new net jobs in private industry since 1950.

Only 1 of Sweden's 50 largest companies was founded after 1970. Entrepreneurship (and even self-employment) are much lower in Sweden than most of the US and even Europe.

Sweden's problem with entrepreneurship

An article discussing some of the problems and statisics relating to Swedish entrepreneu

Swedish pronounciation, letter by letter

Scroll down for å, ä, ö and read/listen. :-)

Would that the unwitting slavery of the "free world" due to corrupt money systems were a more salient topic for presidential debate than slugs and kilograms, and yards and meters! And for an added bonus, a corollary topic to the hoped-for topic of debate would be our infamous and balooning national debt.

fractional reserve banking as economic parasitism: a scientific, mathematical, & historical expose, critique & manifesto

http://econpapers.hhs.se/paper/wpawuwpma/0203005.h tm

Actually, the money would be spent on accountants, tax attourneys and lobbyists to avoid the tax.

Just out of curiosity, how is (was) the money spent in Finland, France, Iceland, Luxembourg, Norway, Spain, Sweden, or Switzerland, which had a wealth tax as of 1999? (See The Wealth Tax and Economic Growth, by Asa Hansson of the Lund University Department of Economics.)

see fractional reserve banking as economic parasitism

Abstract: This paper looks at the history of money and its modern form from a scientific and mathematical point of view. The approach here is to emphasize simplicity. A straightforward model and algebraic formula for a large economy analogous to the ideal gas law of thermodynamics is proposed. It may be something like a new ``F=ma'' rule of the emerging econophysics field. Some implications of the equation are outlined, derived, and proved. The phenomena of counterfeiting, inflation and deflation are analyzed for interrelations. Analogies of the economy to an ecosystem or energy system are advanced. The fundamental legitimacy of ``expansion of the money supply'' in particular is re-examined and challenged. From the hypotheses a major (admittedly radical) conclusion is that the modern international ``fractional reserve banking system'' is actually equivalent to ``legalized economic parasitism by private bankers.'' This is the case because, contrary to conventional wisdom, the proceeds of inflation are not actually spendable by the state. Also possible are forms of ``economic warfare'' based on the principles. Alternative systems are proposed to remediate this catastrophic flaw.

Fractional Reserve Banking as Economic Parasitism: A Scientific, Mathematical & Historical Expose, Critique, and Manifesto
in Macroeconomics from Economics Working Paper Archive at WUSTL
Vladimir Z. Nuri

Abstract: This paper looks at the history of money and its modern form from a scientific and mathematical point of view. The approach here is to emphasize simplicity. A straightforward model and algebraic formula for a large economy analogous to the ideal gas law of thermodynamics is proposed. It may be something like a new ``F=ma'' rule of the emerging econophysics field. Some implications of the equation are outlined, derived, and proved. The phenomena of counterfeiting, inflation and deflation are analyzed for interrelations. Analogies of the economy to an ecosystem or energy system are advanced. The fundamental legitimacy of ``expansion of the money supply'' in particular is re-examined and challenged. From the hypotheses a major (admittedly radical) conclusion is that the modern international ``fractional reserve banking system'' is actually equivalent to ``legalized economic parasitism by private bankers.'' This is the case because, contrary to conventional wisdom, the proceeds of inflation are not actually spendable by the state. Also possible are forms of ``economic warfare'' based on the principles. Alternative systems are proposed to remediate this catastrophic flaw.

read about the REAL matrix.. 60 page scientific paper, meticulously researched: FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING AS ECONOMIC PARASITISM

"Bzzzt! Actually, there's strong statistical evidence that trade barriers make the people protected by them poorer. America historically has been a leader in lowering trade barriers, and that's part of why we're so rich."

I use nine alternative indexes of trade policy to investigate whether the evidence supports the view that, with other things given, TFP growth is faster in more open economies. The regressions reported here are robust to the use of openness indicator, estimation technique, time period and functional form, and suggest that more open countries have indeed experienced faster productivity growth.

I disagree- the US became a super power because of World War II; it was a watershed event for this country. While the rest of the world was taking turns blowing up each others factories, decimating their populations, and sowing the seeds of political strife we were ramping up capacity, production, and developing business. The US is a super power for one simple reason- economic power. Think about it- we don't have the largest population, the most educated population, or even the longest life expectancy. We just out spend (usually on R&D) every other country in the world on defense; we even subsidize other country's purchase of our arms, regardless of ethics, to protect our economic interests. Money is the master of (ORWELL=offense)"defense"(/ORWELL). Why are your tax dollars spent in this fashion? Corporate lobbyists own our government.

At the end of the day though, what matters to a country is manufacturing, products, such as software, cars, widgets, etc. It doesn't matter to a country how well your software streamlines production, how many widgets marketing & sales can distribute, or how efficient the line can be if you're not paying employees in your own country to then buy those widgets. Third world countries are smart to follow in Japans footsteps. I know that this is a complicated issue, but I sometimes feel that the relentless American profit machine is its' own worst enemy.

I disagree- the US became a super power because of World War II; it was a watershed event for this country. While the rest of the world was taking turns blowing up each others factories, decimating their populations, and sowing the seeds of political strife we were ramping up capacity, production, and developing business. The US is a super power for one simple reason- economic power. Think about it- we don't have the largest population, the most educated population, or even the longest life expectancy. We just out spend (usually on R&D) every other country in the world on defense; we even subsidize other country's purchase of our arms, regardless of ethics, to protect our economic interests. Money is the master of (ORWELL=offense)"defense"(/ORWELL). Why are your tax dollars spent in this fashion? Corporate lobbyists own our government.

At the end of the day though, what matters to a country is manufacturing, products, such as software, cars, widgets, etc. It doesn't matter to a country how well your software streamlines production, how many widgets marketing & sales can distribute, or how efficient the line can be if you're not paying employees in your own country to then buy those widgets. Third world countries are smart to follow in Japans footsteps. I know that this is a complicated issue, but I sometimes feel that the relentless American profit machine is its' own worst enemy.

I disagree- the US became a super power because of World War II; it was a watershed event for this country. While the rest of the world was taking turns blowing up each others factories, decimating their populations, and sowing the seeds of political strife we were ramping up capacity, production, and developing business. The US is a super power for one simple reason- economic power. Think about it- we don't have the largest population, the most educated population, or even the longest life expectancy. We just out spend (usually on R&D) every other country in the world on defense; we even subsidize other country's purchase of our arms, regardless of ethics, to protect our economic interests. Money is the master of (ORWELL=offense)"defense"(/ORWELL). Why are your tax dollars spent in this fashion? Corporate lobbyists own our government.

At the end of the day though, what matters to a country is manufacturing, products, such as software, cars, widgets, etc. It doesn't matter to a country how well your software streamlines production, how many widgets marketing & sales can distribute, or how efficient the line can be if you're not paying employees in your own country to then buy those widgets. Third world countries are smart to follow in Japans footsteps. I know that this is a complicated issue, but I sometimes feel that the relentless American profit machine is its' own worst enemy.

A great many people, including some of history's most successful scientists, have their pet irrational beliefs

Yep - amazingly Roger Penrose has some wierd beliefs. On Edge.org there is a neat summary of his very special brand of Pseudo-science - and this from a man widely aclaimed as a genius.

However that does not let him off the hook - nor others peddling Pseudo-Science, nor allow complacency when it comes to other kooks (UFOs? - Pah-leez!)...

The scientific method is the most important belief system ever invented - it allows us to overcome our inate need to explain things any which way.... and the proof of its excellence is obvious when you look at the Technological Civilisation we have built. This only happened once we conquered the hide bound teachings of religion.

I hope and pray that God will deliver us from the folly of believing in him and his works - we need to grow up and be responsible for our own lives, our culture, our impact upon the world and the realisation that the future can not be devined or foretold - that we have even more power over fate, because we live in a civilisation that can make decisions and create our own future - the way we want it to be.

That to me is better than being told to expect the foretellings of loonies, to hope for devine intervention, or saviour from ourselves by UFOs toting space aliens.

Time to grow up....

I am SOOO glad I grew up and was educated in New Zealand - it's the most secular country on the planet and it shows in the education rankings found here. The one for the US is here - check out your own country ranking here.

A great many people, including some of history's most successful scientists, have their pet irrational beliefs

Yep - amazingly Roger Penrose has some wierd beliefs. On Edge.org there is a neat summary of his very special brand of Pseudo-science - and this from a man widely aclaimed as a genius.

However that does not let him off the hook - nor others peddling Pseudo-Science, nor allow complacency when it comes to other kooks (UFOs? - Pah-leez!)...

The scientific method is the most important belief system ever invented - it allows us to overcome our inate need to explain things any which way.... and the proof of its excellence is obvious when you look at the Technological Civilisation we have built. This only happened once we conquered the hide bound teachings of religion.

I hope and pray that God will deliver us from the folly of believing in him and his works - we need to grow up and be responsible for our own lives, our culture, our impact upon the world and the realisation that the future can not be devined or foretold - that we have even more power over fate, because we live in a civilisation that can make decisions and create our own future - the way we want it to be.

That to me is better than being told to expect the foretellings of loonies, to hope for devine intervention, or saviour from ourselves by UFOs toting space aliens.

Time to grow up....

I am SOOO glad I grew up and was educated in New Zealand - it's the most secular country on the planet and it shows in the education rankings found here. The one for the US is here - check out your own country ranking here.

A great many people, including some of history's most successful scientists, have their pet irrational beliefs

Yep - amazingly Roger Penrose has some wierd beliefs. On Edge.org there is a neat summary of his very special brand of Pseudo-science - and this from a man widely aclaimed as a genius.

However that does not let him off the hook - nor others peddling Pseudo-Science, nor allow complacency when it comes to other kooks (UFOs? - Pah-leez!)...

The scientific method is the most important belief system ever invented - it allows us to overcome our inate need to explain things any which way.... and the proof of its excellence is obvious when you look at the Technological Civilisation we have built. This only happened once we conquered the hide bound teachings of religion.

I hope and pray that God will deliver us from the folly of believing in him and his works - we need to grow up and be responsible for our own lives, our culture, our impact upon the world and the realisation that the future can not be devined or foretold - that we have even more power over fate, because we live in a civilisation that can make decisions and create our own future - the way we want it to be.

That to me is better than being told to expect the foretellings of loonies, to hope for devine intervention, or saviour from ourselves by UFOs toting space aliens.

Time to grow up....

I am SOOO glad I grew up and was educated in New Zealand - it's the most secular country on the planet and it shows in the education rankings found here. The one for the US is here - check out your own country ranking here.