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Manitoba Hydro operates one coal fired unit in Brandon MB that is used only during system emergencies

According to https://www.hydro.mb.ca/corpor... , they exported $139 million to the US last year. They expect to export $16 billion in the next twenty years. They have plenty of capacity to go around. The new dam will only add to that capacity. 60-100 years is a long time to manufacture more efficiency into the system. As long as the entities involved are interested in doing so, hydroelectricity looks like it will remain a viable option for awhile.. that means someone needs to pay the cost of it though.

MB is already far ahead, as they actually transmit power from their dams as DC. https://www.hydro.mb.ca/corpor...

I picked up a pair of cheap Asus EEE boxes. Not quite beefy enough to run a modern version of Windows (indeed that is how I got them), but for OpenBSD paired in failover and purposed as my original post said? Remarkable! Only 32 bit Atoms inside but more than enough ooomph for their purposes. They are also dirt cheap to operate as far as electricity goes (though that isn't much of an issue here our electricity is only 7.183 kw/h)

Manitoba Hydro built, maintains and operates two microwave networks that run from Winnipeg to the north. They use them to control northern dams from the central control office in Winnipeg. I know someone who was involved in the implementation of remote switching of manually operated dams back in the 70's who was actively involved with the microwave system. He said the latency is VERY low. They can switch things almost instantly from Winnipeg, over 1000km away.

They have used it in the past (maybe still do) to send TV and radio signals to repeaters up north so the folks up there could watch live TV/hear live radio. They also use it for phones as well until quite recently (upgraded to fibre optics since). Which is why the phone company (MTS) helped pay for/build it too. Much cheaper than running thousands of kilometers of copper. The guy I know had a friend in the control office in Winnipeg who sent up various Winnipeg radio stations over the microwave on a subcarrier of the CBC TV signal. Apparently the CBC never even noticed hehe. I think they had to modify their radios, but there were all electronics specialists anyways working on the remote switching stuff, so it was peanuts for them.

I'm not sure where the poster is located or where his remote sites are, but perhaps there's a utility company that might have some spare capacity on an existing microwave network they'd be willing to sell?

Yeah, like Manitoba Hydro.

http://hydro.mb.ca/

Winter gets you cold, cold, cold temperatures. Hydro power here costs you 5c/kWh and much cheaper for larger users. Want it even cheaper, get up north to Thompson - closer to the source.

Yet, no large data centers here. And in a "town" of 600,000+ people.

Iceland's not alone. Manitoba, Canada is shaping up as another region that is an getting attention from data center builders due to its climate and energy profile. Large power customers in Winnipeg paid an average of 3.6 cents per kilowatt hour in 2007, cheaper than the average rate in virtually every state in the U.S. except Idaho. That's all clean, green power from Manitoba Hydro, which operates 14 hydroelectric generating stations and also buys the output of a 99-megawatt wind farm.

It did not say anything about having plenty extra to sell. It did not say anything about the ability to produce much more, and in fact, most good hydroelectric sites are already producing. There aren't any more.

It didn't say anything at all about solar and wind.

Canada does not have spare Hydroelectric power, at least not is usable markets

Hydro Canada does supply about 60% of the nations power

Hydrogen and stored electricity are both a pain in the ass to deal with, and both generated via coal-fired power plants.

So I'm much rather see such developments done in northern Quebec or Ontario.

Actually, I think you're pointing at the wrong Province here (though you have a good idea). What you actually want is Manitoba. Manitoba Hydro has tons of cheap electricity. They have oodles of hydro-electric dams across the province as the province is lined with lakes and rivers. They're even expanding into wind-power b/c (lo and behold) being on the cold windy plains is pretty conducive to giant windmills.

For anyone who's been to Manitoba, there is simply no lack of space and no lack of energy. It is centrally-located, so North American support is ideal. 8 am in the maritimes is 6 am local, 5 pm on the west coast in only 7 pm local, so the work day can easily be covered in overlapping shifts. And of course, the distance is equal to everyone in North America.

It's very cold in the winter, so cooling costs are not a concern for 4-6 months (if anything, the server rooms would need to be slightly heated :). Oh yeah, I should also mention that Manitoba labour costs lag well behind Ontario, Quebec, Alberta and BC. Winnipeg (the capital) is a big city (750,000) with all of the big city amenities, so setting up here (even exporting staff) will be pleasantly surprising.

Plus, Manitoba is pretty low on the natural disasters front. Saskatchewan gets regular twisters, but Manitoba has very few. There are no earthquakes, no hurricanes (obv), no tsunamis, none of the big stuff. Primary risks are snow-storms and floods, which are both easy to mitigate (redundancy, support network and "higher ground").

Fact is, I'm kind of surprised that big software companies haven't shipped operations to Manitoba. The Cost of Living is significantly lower (10-25% then the aforementioned provinces) and the location is conducive to working with companies on both coasts. With new technologies providing inexpensive communication costs, what does it matter that your programmers are 2 time zones away? It's nice to have bodies nearby, but you can just roll out the "vid-phones" (Skype, Messenger, whatever) and save big on the labour (and overhead, office space is also cheaper). All without the long list of "downsides" to off-shoring. You're not dealing with language issues or time zone issues or education issues.

They ought to move them to Brandon, MB Canada. (1 hour from the US Border). They have an abundance of Cheap Electricity and it doesn't cost much to Keep your office cool most of the year.

DC is good for short-haul power distribution

Please tell that to Manitoba Hydro. :)

"The two transmission lines, each nearly 900 km long, operate at +/- 450 kV and +/- 500 kV DC, with converter stations at Gillam and Sundance, and the receiving terminal near Rosser. The combined capacity of the two HVDC lines is 3420 MW, or about 68% of the total generation capacity in the province."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manitoba_Hydro#Transm ission
http://www.hydro.mb.ca/our_facilities/ts_nelson.sh tml

Why do you use DC for long-haul lines? Because the high voltage AC lines act line gigantic antennas. They started at AC and had to convert everything to DC because of that. It is a big problem converting that much power back and forth from DC to AC, but it is better than having most of it gone to space.

Well, except for the 1,000,000V@3600A DC line. http://www.hydro.mb.ca/our_facilities/ts_nelson.sh tml

Reason? RF losses.

Time to move your operations to Winnipeg, Canada. The power never stops flowing (in the 12 years I've lived here, I only remember two power failures in my residential neighbourhood). I really don't understand why there aren't network server operations set up in reliable power centres such as these.

This isn't something that we can just implement anywhere that wants to save a few kilowatts. Toronto's downtown is directly beside one of the largest lakes in North America. It surely would be something to look at especially for coastal cities. What they say is, given a big enough water body, if you go deep enough the temperature will be about 4 degrees celsius. It really doesn't sound all that different to me than what we've been doing here for years with geothermal heat pumps to heat buildings in Winter.

I didn't quite get your analogy between the lake and the back of my hand though. You mean because any heat given off will be released near the bottom instead of heating the top of the lake?

P.S. My ISP is terrible. Had to wait an hour and a half for it come back to life so I could reply. If anyone in Manitoba is considering switching to MTS from Shaw. DON'T! By far the worst provider I've ever had the displeasure of dealing with.

Any time that a company is given a monopoly over a certain resource, regulation is needed to make sure they use the public resource consistent with the public interest. Then again, I come from Manitoba, where Manitoba Hydro is a crown corporation (government held), makes heaps of money, and sells a lot of power to the US. We often have minor power failures (a few seconds each) during thunderstorms, but otherwise the power is stable. Power is dirt cheap (5.16 cents per kW.h over 175kW.h), and available Manitoba wide (even the far north town of Churchill). MB Hydro makes so much money for the gov't, I doubt we'd ever see it privatized or deregulated.

Ok, then what is this and this and this and this and this?