Domain: larouchepub.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to larouchepub.com.
Comments · 30
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Re:Who is submitter Chris Reeve
Re: "We can view the Universe through different lenses... Electricity and Magnetism could be one of them... ? It just seems we are too eager to label things as crackpot. Often times the 'crackpots' have been right."
Astronomer and cosmologist, Martín López Corredoira, has importantly noted:
"A superficial view may lead us to think that we live in the golden age of science but the fact is that the present-day results of science are mostly mean, unimportant, or just technical applications of ideas conceived in the past
..."A 1963 interview with James van Allen made the point in big bold letters at the top of the page:
"Space was invented on Earth before we knew what was out there."
There is an important historical aspect to what is happening which makes sense of it all: The gravitational universe idea is a legacy concept - akin to vigorously asserting the importance of MS-DOS in 2018. The idea comes from a time when people burned whale oil in gas lamps to read at night - (1) when the Milky Way was thought to be all there was; (2) when that single galaxy was assumed to be just a pile of stars; (3) when all we could see was disconnected points of light; (4) when astronomers did not even realize that radio waves come from space; and (5) when it was assumed that the space between stars was mostly empty. Think about the collective implication of each of these assumptions: (2) through (5) all leave the impression that gravity must dominate at the largest scales. Today we know better about (2) through (5), but few are actually thinking through the implications of the historical changes.
Today, we understand that (1) the Milky Way is one of many galaxies; (2) we now realize that galaxies can be incredibly dynamic objects; (3) we can now see the connections between those points of light; (4) we now understand that optical is just a small sliver of the universe's total emissions; and (5) we today understand that not only is there significant matter between stars, but it is additionally conductive. These were all surprises, and aside from (1), they point to electricity - yet the gravitational ideas which came from that former time continue to dominate.
Consider the rapid pace at which things change in the Node.js community. If you don't pay attention for just a few months, you could find yourself having to repeatedly interject, "what's that?" Astrophysics is the exact opposite of this. There is no real innovation happening, no actual theorizing going on:
"Just look at almost any research paper in astronomy, or astrophysics. What are they doing? They are interpreting evidence on the basis of existing knowledge and “accepted standards” of reasoning and argument. They may come up with alternative theories, where one says it’s this, another says it’s that. They may fight over such alternative theories. But all the theories are ultimately based on the same fundamental assumptions. There’s no actual hypothesizing going on."
Without new hypotheses to explain the new, unexpected observations, our ideas about the universe have not kept pace with the rapid observational advancements:
"All of the theoretical work that's been done since the 1970s has not produced a single successful prediction," says Neil Turok, director of the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Waterloo, Canada.
We would be very wise to take a closer look at the many surprises which have occurred since these old ideas were origina
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Re:75% of california's poeple are brain dead
> Franklin Roosevelt was famed for building water-retention infrastructure
Uh, no.
http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw...> famed for preventing water infrastructure from being built.
In the last decade, that's been the republicans arguing against it..and the Dust Bowl is not related, so I dunno if you're out of cliches to make up or what.
Stop modding the parent up. Sheesh.
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Re:Not going to happen
... its been common knowledge from the start and has been reaffirmed repeatedly... here is Obama doing it again:
http://www.rt.com/usa/obama-sh...but it goes back to reagan... just doing some basic google searches gets me this:
http://www.thereaganvision.org...Do I need better links than that... fine... its a waste of time but whatever:
https://www.larouchepub.com/ot...That is Bill Clinton saying he would also share missile defense tech with Russia... LIKE REAGAN.
But lets see if I can find a better link.
http://www.washingtonexaminer....That cites that the Russians even opposed a shared missile shield.
I mean... do I really need to go on? I'm sure I do... I'm sure you just couldn't accept anything short of the giant 18 inch dildo right up your ass... Sigh... why is it so annoying to find these links. Its a fucking well known fact but all I can get are sideways references to it. God damn it.
http://www.heritage.org/resear...
Another link referencing the same thing.
Every US president since Reagan has supported the idea of sharing the tech with Russia. Every single fucking one.
http://www.csmonitor.com/Comme...
That's Henry fucking Kissinger saying the idea is a good one.
I think I've got enough there that you can see the US has had this position from the very beginning and has not wavered from it since. The Russians basically are addicted to scaring people. They don't feel right with the world unless they make people afraid which is part of why the US and Russia don't get along. We're never going to be afraid of those idiots.
There are big cultural differences between the US and the Russians. They think hissing at us like a fucking snake is going to get them respect at the table. That is the LAST thing we'll ever respect. Hissing at us gets this response:
https://youtu.be/SoswyNaAIUA?t...The Russians just don't get it. You don't get the US's respect by acting like a punk.
As to you never hearing this before... it has been in the policy from the beginning and repeated by every president in this context from the start. So your failure to hear it is on YOU. Feel shame.
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Re:The Real Criminals: The APS
There is many reference to misconduct. One it MIT tweaking of result that their editor (Mallove) have spotted. http://www.infinite-energy.com... http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw... One is Science not correcting errors in caltech paper http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/R... there is also the Oriani paper rejection for no serious reason (theory) there is also the rejection upfront of Report41 of Enea (Denino) showing He4/Heat corelation http://www.rainews24.rai.it/ra... (as 40+ other journals) There is a report by Pamela Mosier Boss, ex SU Navy Spawar, prolific author in Naturwissenshaften and Journal of Electroanalythical Chemistry who complained about emotional behavior in high impact journals http://www.iscmns.org/CMNS/JCM... (page6+ in that proceeding). there are many more to list from the old ape of cold fusion... depending if you search academic misconduct, journal misconduct, insults, horse manure in the mailbox, nasty jokes ruining experiments, sabotaging grants by donators, demoting a researcher to the stock,
... some consider it is normal academic behavior, and it is in a way true, so maybe it is normal. Currently there are many report of similar problem, some by few Nobel like Sheckman or Sidney Brenner, who can afford to moan without being blacklisted. Maybe we cannot change that, not really say it is monstrous, but we should be aware that things works that nasty way, and not be too naive. Sorry for previous coward postings , forgot to logon... -
Re:Borders Played a Pivotal Role in My Career
For a lot of people, discovering something new that they didn't know about is part of the enjoyment of reading. If you know exactly what you want, you can order it from Amazon. If you don't know exactly which title, but you are looking for something in a certain genre that you enjoy, or by an author you like, a real-live bookseller can help you find something interesting. This works better for fiction than it would for reference or technical books, but the decline of the large-scale bookstores means that this sort of personal advice will become unavailable to large segments of the population. You can't exactly go look at the table full of new non-fiction or trade paperbacks, pick one up and leaf through the pages, and if you like it, use your 30% off coupon and take it home with you today, if you're sitting in front of your Mac logged in to Amazon.(OK, I know Amazon has this great algorithm for predicting what you'll like based on what you and others have purchased, and you can download and read an e-book immediately, but see my comment about mom's basement, again, and there's this thing about actual books versus having to read it on a gadget.)
Wal-Mart is the cause of the decline and fall of small town commerce. Time after time it's been shown that when Wal-Mart builds a store on the outskirts of a small town, business in that town dries up, the jobs at these stores go away (to be replaced by part-time employment at said Wal-Mart), and the money that people would have spent at locally-owned and operated shops goes out of town. All to save a few cents on light bulbs or pickles. (Even big cities are seeing the same thing.) When the town dries up and blows away because there's no way to make a living there anymore, Wal-Mart closes up shop too (another article), and moves on to conquer the next small town. Much has been written about the aggressive tactics that Wal-Mart uses to exact the lowest prices from its suppliers, many of which have had to move US jobs overseas in order to meet these demands, or have even gone out of business because they could not continue to sell goods to Wal-Mart at a loss.
To turn the subject back to books, Wal-Mart happens to also be one of the largest book and music retailers, and they are known to censor what they sell, to the point of requiring publishers to provide expurgated versions of books and CDs. (Maybe it's a good thing we have Amazon, then.)
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Re:Capitalism depends on waste
And that is why, everywhere that Walmart opens a store, there are no more local stores.
Why yes this is actually true.
sure Walmart, and other big box stores, have not destroyed all local stores, but it's certainly destroyed enough and will destroy more in time. Unless of course that is if it does not collapse under it's own weight. -
Re:Fallout...
both are somehow linked to Project Vigilant - a group that tracks internet users and hands the data over to the Federal Government ("what they essentially are is some sort of vigilante group that collects vast amount of private data about the Internet activities of millions of citizens, processes that data into usable form, and then literally turns it over to the U.S. Government, claiming its motive is to help the Government detect Terrorists and other criminals..")
You correctly quoted from the link. Not your fault that information is incorrect, all though I have to ask myself why Mr Greenwald investigator and journalist is so quick to swallow and endorse their press release as an accurate description. A separate and larger "patriots" group does "collect" data, but mainly it "profiles" and "assesses" individuals and groups, Vigilant(e) is a smaller "active" group. I'd encourage people to form their own conclusions.
Warning:- these are muddied waters, the larger activities represented by this group are far from passive and reactive. At best their targets are the "perceived" enemies of a "stable" US economy, which rightly or wrongly involves the recruitment of players within government (cough DOJ cough) and private industry (cough ISPs cough) - often "coercively".
A couple of links to start:-
Now I'm worried that a tin-foil hat *might* be a sensible precaution...
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Re:SELL!
glass-steagall got introduced in the senate today, something like mccain-cantwell amendment
Close, it's Cantwell-McCain
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Re:First!
how can a non-exclusive deal weaken yahoo, they can choose to use a different provider or thier own ads at any point?
Vlasic was in a non-exclusive deal with Wal-Mart:
Vlasic Pickles was roped into a contract with Wal-Mart, in which Wal-Mart sold a 3 gallon jar of whole pickles for $2.97. Wal-Mart sold 240,000 gallons of pickles per week. But the price of the 3 gallon jar was so low, that it vastly undercut Vlasic's sales of 8 ounce and 16 ounce jars of cut pickles; further, Vlasic only made a few pennies per 3 gallon jar. With its profits tumbling, Vlasic asked Wal-Mart for the right to raise the price per 3 gallon jar to $3.49, and according to a Vlasic executive, Wal-Mart threatened that if Vlasic tried to back out of this feature of the contract, Wal-Mart would cease carrying any Vlasic product. Eventually, a Wal-Mart executive said, "Well, we've done to pickles what we did to orange juice. We've killed it"--meaning it had wiped out competitor products. Finally, it allowed Vlasic to raise prices; but in January 2001, Vlasic filed for bankruptcy. source
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Serbes
Serbs with their hateful xtian idealogy
You're wrong here, it was Catholic Croats collaborating with NAZIs who persecuted Orthodox Serbians. More recently the Albanians, especially the KLA, Kosovo Liberation Army, were persecuting Serbians and others. And the KLA deals in opium with an idea of a Greater Albania.
It's not just Serbians who are instigating violence.
Falcon
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Re:High oil prices will do way more than KyotoThe main problem with high oil prices is that the money is going largely to rich oil producing countries like Saudi Arabia, so that they can build monstrosities like ski resorts in the desert. The oil producing countries in the Middle East are building those "monstrosities" because they realize that the oil money isn't going to be around forever. Their Governments are sinking money (and encouraging investment) into infrastructure *now* so that in the future, those countries will become tourist and business hubs.
If you knew anything about the history of the Middle East, Saudi Arabia in particular, you'd know that those countries got a very late start (they didn't start pumping oil until after WW2) on industrializing and building infrastructure that the West takes for granted.
As an environmentalist, I am strongly opposed to these high oil prices, because they are siphoning off our wealth and giving it to rich oil foreign oil companies. I'm just having trouble making sense of your statement. As an environmentalist, wouldn't you consider high oil prices to be a good thing, since it will force a migration to some other alternative?
As for why oil prices are so high, one of the more plausible theories is that US financial companies are pouring cash into the oil commodities market because of the weak dollar. In doing so, they've bid up the price of oil well beyond what it should be.
Congress recently had a hearing on the matter
This article has a summary that is fairly representative of what was said
http://www.larouchepub.com/pr/2008/080623halve_oil_prices.html
I'd support a bill with a 6 month sunset.
If kicking out financial speculators works, make the law permanent. If it doesn't, let it sunset. -
Re:Russian politics...may not happen for a whileHere is a link to PDF document describing some of the motivations including:
- Avoid depopulation. 16 million people in Russian Far East and decreasing. 2.4 people per km2 vs 80 people per km2 across the Amur River in China. The idea is to get skilled manufacturing jobs.
- Use existing base of Uglegorsk. Keeps it from being shut down and has past experience with launching satellites.
- Leverage other infrastructure such as roads and railroads.
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Re:no on net neutrality
The water provided to my town is offered by a company that goes by the name of "United Water Suez," A subsidiary of Sues, a company based in France. They had gained a majority of the stock in Argentina in order to become the water utility there as well, but at least the Argentinian government was wise enough to kick them out. The quality of their service is piss-poor. The water tastes like it is pumped out of a swimming pool made for kids undergoing potty training. Since there is only one water pipe that comes to my house, they have a monopoly that no one can challenge.
The system would be much better if it were owned, run, and controlled by the government directly. Net Neutrality is effectively a campaign to have the same thing come true for communications. I believe it is a wonderful goal. There is is competition in the communications business because everyone needs access to other people's lines, but it is already apparent that all of the telecom companies are already beginning to merge (for example, Cingular and AT&T). What happens if AT&T and Verizon merge? The whole country will be held by the balls for communications just as my general area is for water.
Now, I know no government is free from corruption, but at least we have limited control over the government, and compared to one huge monopoly, it is certainly the lesser of two evils. -
Re:Two words:
>Lincoln Chafee
I'm waiting for http://www.larouchepub.com/ Lyndon LaRouche to jump back in. Or maybe Ross Perot. -
Re:The Truth Is Taboo?
I think the parent is on the right track.
Global Warming has become religious even to the scientists involved. If you are staking your reputation on previous claims of GW, then you will start filtering your data gathering with a 'specific general outcome' in mind, even if subconscious.
Models can't even get cloud formation close to correct yet. They can't even predict the weather beyond a couple of days.
Thus I think our understanding is still way too immature to be jumping to conclusions on either side, and making huge economic decisions of carbon trading etc.
eg
http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2007/2007_10 -19/2007-11/pdf/38_711_science.pdf -
Re:The Terrible Tinkerer Trippin over his feet.
Nuclear weapons do have a lot of use, actually. The dropping of the atomic bomb also caused A) A huge push in technology and B) A fear of war when otherwise war may have broken out.
Also, Asbestos was used since the time of the Greeks as a non-extinguishable fuel. It was also used in blankets, tablecloths, etc. It was a pretty common part of every day life. This surely helped them move forward in civilization, bringing us where we are now. Sure, it may be useless- and even dangerous- now, but that doesn't mean that it never should have been used in the first place.
Same with these apples. We may find a way to make them better for you. Jam pack them with nutrients. Whatever. 50 years from now, we may find out it was ultimately unhealthy. Who knows? But not knowing is not a valid reason for not attempting to find out. Well, there is one community where it is...but it sure ain't the scientific one. -
Bush &Pre-emptive Nuclear First Strike Doctrin
Well, I think ever since George Bush instated the Pre-emptive Nuclear First Strike Doctrine, the rest of the world is more than a little bit on edge about americans and trusting them with nuclear weapons. Especially since US Congress decided to finance the development of new ones, and USA is openly advocating for their use in "environmentally friendly" bunker busters.
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2005/3221conplan_ 8022.html
US Nuclear First Strike Doctrine Is Operational
Iraq was flattened for not having WMDs, Iran is going to be flattened if they don't have any. North Korea is being pussyfooted for having them. US is threatening first strike with Nuclear Weapons on non-nuclear armed countries, thereby making public ridicule of Nuclear non-Proliferation Treaty, not to mention selling nuclear tech to India, which NPT denies.
All in all: the writing on the wall is clear. You are not safe from US unless you have nuclear weapons, because USA is prepared to use them first against even you if you don't have any. NPT will not protect you, nor will it guard your rights to use nuclear technology, nor will USA respect it by disarming it's own nuclear weapons, on the contrary USA is breaking the treaty by threatening others with their use and building more.
The world is going to be nuclear armed to the teeth in a decade or two. -
Re:Obvious.
I was wrong. They filed for bankruptcy in 2001, I thought they were gone. I'm not much into pickles.
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046wal-mart _pricing.html -
Re:Let us check this
January 2001, Vlasic filed for bankruptcy from here plenty of other success stories in the article as well.
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Re:I'm all for new fast reaction nuc plants for no
Hydrogen is simply a means of storing energy...There is very little H2 occuuring naturally on our planet, so it must be produced (most likely by the electrolysis of water), which will need a lot of energy..(I believe there is quite a bit of energy loss in the process)...
The energy to produce H2 could come from wind, solar, tidal, geothermal, hydro, or nuclear, but the source will have to be scalable, which currently leaves nuclear..
The amount of waste per watt from a nuclear plant is incredibally small, compared to fossil fuel plants, and nuclear plants release no waste products into the general atmosphere (they keep it all contained) - in fact a typical coal plant releases more radioactive material into the atmosphere than a nuclear plant.
I know South Africa was going to start using PBMRs to generate electricity, and the heat would be used for de-salanination to produce drinking water...If theis were done on a large scale, the excess electricity could be used for H2 production -
Re:Life starts at conception
t's flame bait because you don't know if it's more or less promising research.
I'm sorry I didn't post the multitudes of papers available on the subject. I figured anyone who can get on the internet and view slashdot was fully capable of using Google to do a little research to backup my claim.
So if thousands of well-educated people in their field say this shows promise and someone outside their field says no it's pointless then either they're clueless or they're trying to start a flame war.
Oh, so I must be the only one who came up with adult stem cells as an alternative? There are thousands of scientists who believe adult stem cells are the better alternative. While embryonic stem cell research makes a Slashdot headline for actually doing something, adult stem cell research has had MANY results already.
http://www.marrow.org/MEDICAL/diseases_treatable_b y_stem_cell_transplants.html
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=860
http://www.lifeissues.org/cloningstemcell/adultste msuccess.htm
http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/bpnews.asp?ID=19641
http://www.stemcellresearch.org/facts/prentice.htm
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2002/2918stem_cel ls.html
etc.
So, with incredible results already being done, why focus on the back-burner? It's like continuing to research the vacuum tube when we've got transistors. -
Wal-Mart's scorched-earth procurement(from Lyndon Larouche)
Vlasic Pickles was roped into a contract with Wal-Mart, in which Wal-Mart sold a 3 gallon jar of whole pickles for $2.97. Wal-Mart sold 240,000 gallons of pickles per week. But the price of the 3 gallon jar was so low, that it vastly undercut Vlasic's sales of 8 ounce and 16 ounce jars of cut pickles; further, Vlasic only made a few pennies per 3 gallon jar. With its profits tumbling, Vlasic asked Wal-Mart for the right to raise the price per 3 gallon jar to $3.49, and according to a Vlasic executive, Wal-Mart threatened that if Vlasic tried to back out of this feature of the contract, Wal-Mart would cease carrying any Vlasic product. Eventually, a Wal-Mart executive said, "Well, we've done to pickles what we did to orange juice. We've killed it"--meaning it had wiped out competitor products. Finally, it allowed Vlasic to raise prices; but in January 2001, Vlasic filed for bankruptcy.
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read for comprehension?I specified, island to island.., I knew that. yet, people do want to connect russia and alaska, and the islands do figure in to the plans. and looky here
The intensity of use of this railroad corridor, and its effect on overall economic productivity of North American and Eurasian nations, changes entirely when it crosses the Bering Strait--as is now definitely technologically feasible by tunnel (Figure 2), using the two islands, (Little Diomede and Big Diomede) which lie along the Strait crossing in order to break up its total length. The long-awaited Alaska-Canada railroad corridor then becomes an extension of the northern Eurasian Land-Bridge--involving the Trans-Siberian and Baikal-Amur lines, and the Chinese northern rail line construction extending to them--and part of the "world land-bridge."
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Re:You know they're scared when...
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Re:Hard to compete(same AC)
Yes, I used to be on a city commission and needed to go to most of the council meetings. I've seen how local governments can get tricked by the idea that corporate welfare can actually create good jobs. I've seen it with areas being rezoned for some new condos (simiarly to your situation) and to giving preferential tax treatement for building a large do-it-yourself store (let's call it L for short).
The L's people had this presentation that a tax break for them would create hundres of new high-paying jobs. It was crap, like all these deals are.
They give an unfair competition to large corporations over small stores. The L went up, undercut local businesses because they were allowed to have larger profit margins from lower taxes, and killed local hardware stores. By the time I moved away, the L was employing about a hundred people, but four other stores each closed up taking away at least that many jobs in the process. Also, with no more competition, there was no check on L's service and prices. Nobody can tell for sure how this impacted the local landscape, since it pure guesswork, but I can tell you that L is not getting any better or cheaper. I hear they are actually having a hard time keeping a story that big open now.
Walmart just received government assistance to build a new supercenter too. It is happening across the US.
Wal-Mart Collapses U.S. Cities and Towns
Despite all this, many states and communities are using taxpayers' money to finance subsidies to Wal-Mart, to come in and rape them.
In 1999, it was reported that in Olivette, Missouri, a developer received a tax incentive of up to $38.9 million for a construction project including a Wal-Mart and a Sam's Club--more than a third of the projected total cost of the project. In 1998, it was reported that the city of Chesterfield, Missouri was supplying $25.5 million in tax incentives toward the construction of a $100 million-plus mall, anchored by a Wal-Mart. In 2001, Ohio approved $10 million in tax credits and other assistance for Wal-Mart to build two distribution centers and an eyeglass-manufacturing facility.
Proposed ordinance in San Diego takes aim at Wal-Mart Supercenters
One report, released this week by the Center on Policy Initiatives, questioned the benefits derived from public subsidies given to a 1998 retail redevelopment project in College Grove, which was anchored by a Wal-Mart. The project, the Marketplace at the Grove, received $13.4 million in public money and assistance, $9.5 million of which went to Wal-Mart, according to the study.
Denver officials are deciding whether to give Wal-Mart $10 million of our tax money so Wal-Mart can build a Supercenter at Alameda Square Shopping Center.
Just read up on the big-box closures all over the country now. Many of these cities are making the same mistakes again, gives huge incentives for people to now come into a story that Walmart has closed up after giving Wal mart incentives to build the store in the first place.
Many of these places cannot support a place like Walmart and it is no surprise when Walmart closes up after a couple of years later, after driving local stores out of business. -
Re:Wake up
How about a less loaded term?
Something neutral like Enabling Act would be far more acceptable
(Ermächtigungsgesetz in the original). -
What does this say about the "war on terrorism"?
Seems to me that an act like this indicates one of two things:
1. The government knows damn well the "war on terrorism" is a total flop and will never achieve its goals.
or
2. The "war on terrorism" is a ploy to promote and sustain the government's move to seize more power.
All things being equal, I'd say the first is more likely, especially since I can offer no theory of motive for the second. In either case, if ever the government did something that clearly demonstrates foul intent, this is it. Imagine the impossibility of the PATRIOT Act's effects ever getting nullified by ammendments.
And don't forget what's on the horizon for the United States. It just keeps going downhill, doesn't it? -
Roadmap for War on Iraq
Roadmap for War on Iraq and the New American Empire brought to by:
Elliott Abrams , Gary Bauer
William J. Bennett, Jeb Bush
Dick Cheney , Eliot A. Cohen
Midge Decter, Paula Dobriansky
Steve Forbes , Aaron Friedberg
Francis Fukuyama, Frank Gaffney
Fred C. Ikle, Donald Kagan
Zalmay Khalilzad, I. Lewis Libby
Norman Podhoretz, Dan Quayle
Peter W. Rodman, Stephen P. Rosen, Henry S. Rowen
Donald Rumsfeld , Vin Weber, George Weigel, Paul Wolfowitz
xyzzyxyzzyxyzzyxyzzyxyzzyxyzzyxyzzyxyzzyxyzzy -
Re:Globalization is a new form of "colonialism."
Sorry the links got messed up, I'll try again. Pope Brings `The Common Good' To Judge Globalization and War
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Re:Look, apples and oranges!
My understanding is you have the military training causality backwards. Some developers started on the military training games and then went commericial. It may have now have gone back from commerical to military though. I do not know about that. The basic observation to be made are that kids are infantile and suggestible. This is the nature of being a kid. If and when they mature, infantile rage for instance is either not experienced or bounded by other considerations. Suggestibility perhaps is not so extremely powerful. This is not to say that the world is such that nothing in it justifies rage in the mature person, but the issues tend to be other than damage to one's own personal ego. Here is a URL that talks about this: StarWars amd Littleton