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Electronic Arms 10/22 Bullpup

Voere VEC–91

Remington Model 700 EtronX

Metal Storm MAUL

Done correctly, electronic guns can reduce points of failure, not increase them. You’re still going to want to use lithium primary batteries, or some kind of float charger in your gun safe, but after 10 years unmaintained, conventional firearms are a little less reliable than they used to be, too.

You mean something like this http://www.metalstorm.com/

Hrmmm... So the arms race continues, as Metal Storm weaponry becomes more widely deployed to counter the armor! The system works!

Come on media people, this isn't hard to figure out..

This is A Shield
This is A Point Defense System using a gun.
Skyguard (or THEL as the Israelis call it) is A Point Defense System using a High Energy Laser.

It may only be semantics, but that makes it no less irritating..

Why the fsck would you not use a Metal Storm Area Denial pod instead? The only reason to use landmines is that you want to maim children 75 years from now.

1200 rounds per minute is nothing to sneeze at but it aint no million.

It's called metal storm, and I too immediately thought of that type of gun when I read about this system.

I'd bet that it's based on a Metal Storm gun of some sort. You could call them "machine guns" but they have no moving parts and a rate of fire a couple orders of magnitude higher than modern gatling cannons. See also their Wikipedia entry.

(I don't have any insider information; I'm just thinking the technologies are a really great fit.)

I dunno, if I were sending my robots after this Asimov guy (is that a Russian name or what?) I'd probably equip them with Metal Storm

You never have too much firepower. Those russkies may be ignorant peons, but they can take a hell of a whippin'. The Nazis beat the shit out of 'em, but they kept comin'. Seems to me that a coonventional armament like a Phalanx may seem cheap, but it might not do the job.

Hell, even when I'm out huntin' 'coon'n'bear, I'd want a better system than a Phalanx. Seems to me, if you're serious about the security of our great ountry, you'll give the boys at Metal Storm a call. Robots don't like get overrun by hordes of reds, any more than humans do.

your whole barrel-and-ammo unit is the reload. There is some talk about just carrying multiple guns.

metal storm's first live firing smartgun involved a detatchable battery, a detetchable barrel unit and a frame to hold the whole thing together.

No gun cleaning. Ever.

If the gun was out of batteries, you could still fire it on dynamo power.

The gun discussed on the link used a dress ring as the user identifer rather than the palm grip pressure system used in the gun discussed in the article.

Final smart gun designs will probably use multiple systems to recognise the owner(s).

Send this to 5 years ago, when it would have been relevant...
http://www.metalstorm.com/04_electronic_prototype. html
Videos here :
http://www.metalstorm.com/04_videos/videos.html#vl e

Send this to 5 years ago, when it would have been relevant...
http://www.metalstorm.com/04_electronic_prototype. html
Videos here :
http://www.metalstorm.com/04_videos/videos.html#vl e

Actually its 60k RPM, not quite 1M. But still very fast and very impressive, especially since it won't melt the barrel.

Actually is as fast as you want. But at 1 million rpm with 8 rounds in each barrel, it would just seem like a small hand held shot gun (except completely accurate). remember; they can have three FIRED rounds in the barrel at once, in the sniper rifle, that increased the kenetic energy in the first round by 45% giving the MST 30cal more stopping power - about the same amount as a standard 50cal round

Plus a firearm that fired that fast will be classified as full auto, meaning it falls under a different classification, meaning the price goes through the roof, plus licensing tax etc.
I think it would need a new classification, as it is a whole new class of projectile weapons.
The anti 2nd Amendment states won't allow a firearm this fast. So it'll still be a single shot pistol with really cool technology involved.

Personally I don't think anyone requires a personal weapon of this power. BUT I think the safety features of it are extensive and will save lives, and it is certainly more safe/reliable than the alternatives.

The bloody thing beeps when you shoot and talks to you when you disengage the safety. The last thing I want is the bad guy knowing that I've got a gun, but now he knows where to spray bullets. Incidentally, that would ruin a lot of movies.

I'm sure the sound can be turned off, and re movies, you obviously havent seen the opening scene to Judge Dredd. (talking gun etc)

Puts holes in paper. What range? What does the bullet do through ballistic gelatin? Whats the penetration? BBs will put holes in paper too.
see above re sniper rifle energy.
Meant to give police and special forces a powerful technological advantage? Ok, so how well does the system work when wet? With gloves? How much energy will it transfer to the target? And why do our specialists want more technology?

I can't vouch for the wet part, but since it is an air tight lock after each round is fired I suspect it is OK. The energy required to fire each round(s) will come from pulling the trigger. Specialists(???) dunno, this is just new technology, I would assume anyone who wants the best will start heading towards this system over the next 10 years.

7 shot barrel that needs to be changed on a reload. What's bigger to carry, a 7 shot barrel, or a 7 round mag? How do you reload the barrel? Do you have to buy a new barrel, or can you put your "bullets" in it.

The entire barrel contents is fired, and the new rounds are dropped in the back. There is no cartridge (spent or other wise) to remove. There are NO MOVING PARTS - except for the round once fired. Don't forget also, that it will have four barrels with different types of rounds (if you want)

Metalstorm is the only one building reload barrels because they have to have it calibrated just right. This reminds me of blackpowder muskets. Insert wad, pour black powder, insert ball... etc.

What? I consider replacing the MAG in an M16, and hoping the rounds don't jam, and trying not to get red hot brass casings down my sleeves to be far closer to the musket thing than this technology.

Can you point out where it says if it jams, it can be cleared by the next bullet? Their reference to jams, is about fail to feed or eject jams. This is an obstructed barrel.

Please see the video of the VLe handgun - it's a bit long and some of the enactments are a bit cheesy but they show a jammed round being cleared. http://www.metalstorm.com/04_video_vle_prototype.h tml

If one of these were to jam in this sense, I think you'd have the same problem you have when a regular pistol fails like this. You have an obstruction in the barrel. If the ignited propellent cannot clear the obstruction, there is only one direction its going to go, and

And anyway what does 'reliable' mean - probably you should factor in accidental discharges as well as misfires ... perhaps the right thing to try and figure out is something like 'would the owner be more likely or less likely to be hurt owning this weapon over some reasonable weapon lifetime'

They've been around for a few years now. Companies like Metal Storm have their own smart handgun as well as their more well known technology.

They've been around for a few years now. Companies like Metal Storm have their own smart handgun as well as their more well known technology.

We've had this with an Australian company Metalstorm for ages now.

Mind you they have flying versions which are even cooler.

We've had this with an Australian company Metalstorm for ages now.

Mind you they have flying versions which are even cooler.

You are thinking of the metalstorm technology.

Do you mean MetalStorm?

Jaysyn

First it was Honda and their dancing robot. How cute.

Next it's Toyota and a trumpet playing robot. Amazing!

Do you notice a trend with these auto companies creating more and more sophisticated robots to one-up the competition?

How long before Honda unveils their Asimo complete with a 120mm M829 Armor Piercing, Fin Stabilized, Discarding Sabot-Tracer Depleted Uranium cannon?

Will Toyota fire back with their trumpet playing metalstorm wielding automation?

You should look specifically at another set of videos at the metalstorm site, about what they call an "Area Denial Weapons System". It's the evolution of what's talked about in the above posts, plus sensors and other cool stuff. Very impressive, and superior to a minefield in many ways.

Take a look at these live fire videos.

Thanks for the link. I imagine you could replace a mine field with a line of lead.

Check out Metal Storm for videos of some guns and cannons that fire realy fast.

Metal Storm is another group working on weapons like this. Instead of using lasers to ignite the propellant, they use electrical impulses travelling down the barrel. The rest of the mechanism is functionally the same. However, they seem to be focussing on it from a wider view, with hand held weapons being only a part of the lineup of prototypes. From the looks of it, this type of 'solid state' firing mechanism is going to be pervading much of the military in the forthcoming years.

The Australians made an electric gun long time ago, see it here, nice videos too.

1) No, because it still uses a chemical propellant to accelerate a jacketed lead slug to an appropriate velocity where it will damage it's intended target, vs. a focused light projection device... And it doesn't go phew! :P

2) The article states that the device uses biometric comparisons, where the unique electrical signature generated by the human body is compared against the one that is stored. The students were proving that fingerprint comparison (essentially mathematically comparing points in a pattern) can be (semi) easily faked.

The primary problems I see here are:

1. OS stability (Bmw 745, Windows, anyone?). People (myself included) rely on firearms as a last resort in a situation where lives are at risk. Do you really want your last chance dependant on a piece of software (Insert offshore coding joke here)?

2. Magazine replacement. Most of the pre-loaded barrel designs the have been brought to market have either fallen into an extremely tight niche, or have failed altogether. I.E.:
H&K P11 Underwater Pistol
Pancor Jackhammer
Major exception is Metal Storm Tech

3. As someone pointed out you can cover up the camera hole, also what happens at night? Dark, muzzle flash, white balance etc. etc.

4. Planning GPS? GPS reception inside sucks (Urban ops/home defense). Especially if you're trying to make this thing as compact as possible and keep it balanced. You're going to have to sacrifice antenna and component placement and size.

5. Battery life... Yeah, watch batteries last a long time, but you're not running sensors, camera's, etc. etc. with them.

6. Memory capacity. I know when I go to the range I usually drop about 200+ rounds through a couple of handguns... How many pictures, at what res, + time info, + gps info is this thing going to store, and if it does keep a few then overwrite the oldest, people can just take it to the range after they did something bad with it and kill (hehe) the evidence.

7. Accuracy - I don't even want to touch this one until after I shoot one... Firearms have longer barrels for a reason.

8. Programming - Dealers are going to have to be able to reprogram the signature it accepts for operation, and probably gunsmiths as well. It's not hard to get gunsmithing tools.
We're all geeks here, how long do you think any type of data security will really hold up on one of these?

I can't remember the rest of them but I had a couple more as well... I'm too tired I guess.

They used to think people would be using all kinds of energy weapons by now. Star Trek and other "space age" TV series are useful for seeing this idea and other 1960s/70s conceptions of future warfare and human interaction.

They also used to think that murder, shootings, and violence in general would be eliminated in the more sensitive, more loving, more civilized future world.

There are still fights with clubs, swords, knives, and other low-tech weapons, and there are still murders. As just one example, the effectiveness of guns has hardly improved in this century. Witness the M1911 .45 caliber pistol, patented in 1902. 100 years later, it's still one of the most popular models you can buy, it's preferred by the best operators in special operations, and it's still just as deadly as the original. Sure there's body armor, and it's better than any personal armor of the last 500 years, but you can still die if you get shot in the vest. The biggest advance I've seen yet is Metal Storm, an electrically fired machinegun that acts like a bigass shotgun (check the videos!). The Army is looking at using this technology as an IFF-enabled landmine supplement that can move with the forces it protects and not accidentally blow up friendly units, among other uses. But this won't help the people with a million conventional mines in their backyards.
Unlike the government-issue advances, ordinary people killing each other remains the same as it has always been for the simple reason that the human body is still as vulnerable as it has always been-- such a fragile creature in some ways. Knives and bayonets are still issued to Army troops, the Army has been using the same rifle for almost 40 years, and people are stabbed every day.

"There will always be killing. This is how things are, in our world." -- memorable words spoken by a Somali militiaman in Black Hawk Down. He's right. But we ought never lose sight of ways to improve ordinary people's lives. Note the large amount of economic and agricultural aid doled out to developing countries each year (I know, it doesn't all make it to the needy, but it's a start).

I guess the point is, if a tool works well, there's little reason to rock the boat unless someone (a corporation) knows it can probably profit if it makes something better. As for human nature, if I could say one thing to the Creator, it would not be a request for future technology today, it would be a request to save me from the war, plague, and famine inside me.

They used to think people would be using all kinds of energy weapons by now. Star Trek and other "space age" TV series are useful for seeing this idea and other 1960s/70s conceptions of future warfare and human interaction.

They also used to think that murder, shootings, and violence in general would be eliminated in the more sensitive, more loving, more civilized future world.

There are still fights with clubs, swords, knives, and other low-tech weapons, and there are still murders. As just one example, the effectiveness of guns has hardly improved in this century. Witness the M1911 .45 caliber pistol, patented in 1902. 100 years later, it's still one of the most popular models you can buy, it's preferred by the best operators in special operations, and it's still just as deadly as the original. Sure there's body armor, and it's better than any personal armor of the last 500 years, but you can still die if you get shot in the vest. The biggest advance I've seen yet is Metal Storm, an electrically fired machinegun that acts like a bigass shotgun (check the videos!). The Army is looking at using this technology as an IFF-enabled landmine supplement that can move with the forces it protects and not accidentally blow up friendly units, among other uses. But this won't help the people with a million conventional mines in their backyards.
Unlike the government-issue advances, ordinary people killing each other remains the same as it has always been for the simple reason that the human body is still as vulnerable as it has always been-- such a fragile creature in some ways. Knives and bayonets are still issued to Army troops, the Army has been using the same rifle for almost 40 years, and people are stabbed every day.

"There will always be killing. This is how things are, in our world." -- memorable words spoken by a Somali militiaman in Black Hawk Down. He's right. But we ought never lose sight of ways to improve ordinary people's lives. Note the large amount of economic and agricultural aid doled out to developing countries each year (I know, it doesn't all make it to the needy, but it's a start).

I guess the point is, if a tool works well, there's little reason to rock the boat unless someone (a corporation) knows it can probably profit if it makes something better. As for human nature, if I could say one thing to the Creator, it would not be a request for future technology today, it would be a request to save me from the war, plague, and famine inside me.

Little Known Facts About the Bill of Rights

Have a look here. It's the English Bill of Rights, dated 1698. Some quotes:

That the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law;
That jurors ought to be duly impanelled and returned, and jurors which pass upon men in trials for high treason ought to be freeholders;
That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted;

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

As regards Smart Guns and how they work, have a look here for an Australian one. There's a page with a 4.5 Mb streaming video and a 45 Mb hi-res zipped version.

Little Known Facts About the Bill of Rights

Have a look here. It's the English Bill of Rights, dated 1698. Some quotes:

That the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law;
That jurors ought to be duly impanelled and returned, and jurors which pass upon men in trials for high treason ought to be freeholders;
That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted;

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

As regards Smart Guns and how they work, have a look here for an Australian one. There's a page with a 4.5 Mb streaming video and a 45 Mb hi-res zipped version.

Little Known Facts About the Bill of Rights

Have a look here. It's the English Bill of Rights, dated 1698. Some quotes:

That the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law;
That jurors ought to be duly impanelled and returned, and jurors which pass upon men in trials for high treason ought to be freeholders;
That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted;

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

As regards Smart Guns and how they work, have a look here for an Australian one. There's a page with a 4.5 Mb streaming video and a 45 Mb hi-res zipped version.

Chances are, these things are going to end up in ultra high-tech weapons for US Special Forces to assist them in pillaging third-world countries for their natural resources in this "War on Terrorism" long before we ever see them in civilian use. The only thing keeping them from using such terrible weapons are power sources, and now that it's being addressed, we could see them being used in Arab countries very soon.

Their applications?

Pulse Rifles, as seen in Aliens, Land Warrior systems, and Exoskeletons

Chris

Yeah, and we know about Australians inveting guns.

I think you're talking about metal storm...

Their website is here.

it's an electronic round ignition system that lets them stack lots of rounds in each barrel and lots of barrels together and then fire them in a way it won't just all blow up.

but the effect isn't all that different from a claymore mine.

I'm pretty sure they advertise a potential 1,000,000 rounds a minute (as opposed to your seconds), and have built "proof of concept" but not the actual 1,000,000 round a minute "guns".

Not to demean metal storm's work, or the other points you made, just wanted to clear it up a little.

They certainly are Australian.

Hmm, it seems to me that physical protection would be better than laser defense systems if a missile was coming straight at you. (If the missile was tangential, then the laser with its faster speed would be better)

If I were in, say, a warship, I'd much rather have a solid wall of bullets to stop an incoming missile. You can't argue with a million rounds a minute :)

Hmm, it seems to me that physical protection would be better than laser defense systems if a missile was coming straight at you. (If the missile was tangential, then the laser with its faster speed would be better)

If I were in, say, a warship, I'd much rather have a solid wall of bullets to stop an incoming missile. You can't argue with a million rounds a minute :)