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You still didn't explain what you meant by effective medium of exchange. You compare bitcoin to the Turkish Lira, and yet still think bitcoin isn't an effective medium of exchange? Is the Turkish Lira not an effective medium of exchange?

What type of fraud are you talking about here? Due to the nature of Bitcoin it's pretty darn secure against bounced payments. It can't do anything after the transaction has taken place though. Bitpay doesn't seem to offer any kind of buyer's protection so how exactly does fraud come into this equation whatsoever? Moneybookers do the same thing but their fees cap out at 65 cents.

If people were to get their paychecks in bitcoins they might find it convenient, but the whole "use money to buy bitcoins, use bitcoins to buy stuff" model is more complicated than "use money to buy stuff".

Obviously, there are two types of fraud. Buyer fraud and seller fraud. I was talking about fraud by the buyer.

I suppose you've used moneybookers. I checked it out: https://www.moneybookers.com/p2p/en/calculator/fees.pl

It's hardly a replacement for bitcoin. Here is what I get when I try to calculate fees for sending money from the United States "Due to legal restrictions, our services are not available for residents of United States of America. Please accept our apologies for this inconvenience! "

Here is a transfer of 10 Euro from the UK to Hong Kong:

Transfer Fee: 0.10EUR - Euro
Total Payable: 10.10EUR - Euro
Received amount : 6.50EUR - Euro

Send 10 Euro, receive 6.50? That's a little more than 65 cents. Moneybookers is just another confusing system with outrageous fees, in which bitcoin is a vast improvement.

You are complaining that they are "stealing" your money even though you haven't given them proof of who you are.

If they want proof of ID, then they should ask for it up front - not when they have money and I have no option. Of course they won't return the money to the sender either.

http://www.moneybookers.com/app/help.pl?s=laundering

Do you read things before you sign up? And why should they ask for ID before legally required too, you want them to go beyond what the law requires?

Unlike PayPal, who you would also be sending your ID to, at a random address, Moneybookers is regulated.

Show me the regulation that says that they get to keep any money?

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32006R1781:en:NOT

Your money is sitting in that account because you are a retard, not because they are thieves.

They are thieves. They won't give me my money and they won't give it to the person that sent it. And they demand that I send them a photocopy of a document that can be used to open bank accounts (real ones), apply to loans, and lot of other things. If you think I'm being a retard for not sending them that document, then will, go fuck yourself and send them yours.

They can't give you your money because doing so without documenting your identity is against the law. They can't give it to the person who sent it because that would also be against the law if they don't have your ID on record. They aren't thieves because they haven't kept the money for themselves, it is sitting there waiting for someone to provide the identification the law requires in order to transfer it.

And yes that ID is just what you would need to open a bank account. Which is obvious, since the bank wants the same ID for the exact same reason - the same laws apply to them.

>Btw, what alternatives are there to paypal?

http://gunpal.com/ (I kid you not.)
http://alertpay.com/
wire transfers
http://moneybookers.com/
https://www.neteller.com/
https://www.epassporte.com/
http://www.e-gold.com/
http://www.libertyreserve.com/

>You know, companies that atleast pretend to support democracy.

I don't vouch for any of the above.

Guys, Paypal has history in a large class action over frozen assets.

Forbes in 2002:

http://www.forbes.com/2002/03/08/0308paypal.html

It's funny, in that article circa 2002, Forbes thought Citibank's C2it would crush Paypal. Didn't happen.

Now, the British who know something about World Banking, might take it with MoneyBookers.
https://www.moneybookers.com/app/?rid=3809503
Either way, Meg Whitman knew the Ebay ship had sailed, she got out why the getting was good.

We'll find out whether people care or not when there's an alternative.

I've asked that question a lot. The answer is that there are several other options.
Most of the rest of the world uses Moneybookers as one option of several. It is allowed to use more than one, though most people appear not to know that.

It's inexplicable that sites that otherwise spend effort on usability and accessibility then say 'fsck you' to their potential customers when choosing ways to transfer money. It's very rare to walk into a store and see 'paper money only, no coins' or 'Visa credit cared only, no cash' or 'Mastercard debit, no credit cards and no cash' and so on. Why should the same be tolerated online? I've contacted some of these same sites that have paypal as the only payment option and found that they wonder why they get little to no business yet won't add other options for payment.

If you provide only one avenue for payment, and many people don't use it or even like it, don't be fscking surprised that many people won't give you money.

Other services, like moneybookers, have had public APIs for years. IIRC the moneybooker's one has been around since 2004. There are even development accounts that can be set up for testing and several levels of detail or complexity.

I'm not sure what the slashdot editors' fascination with paypal is about. A quota to peddle 'news' about M$ partners?

Other services, like moneybookers, have had public APIs for years. IIRC the moneybooker's one has been around since 2004. There are even development accounts that can be set up for testing and several levels of detail or complexity.

I'm not sure what the slashdot editors' fascination with paypal is about. A quota to peddle 'news' about M$ partners?

Has nobody in here used moneybookers?
is pretty easy to send money, and you can withdraw in different countries
and customer support is wonderful, they're uk based
and even support escrow payments

Dunno, I've got an account with Moneybookers since Play-Asia required that and they say they're free for merchants and take 1% with a maximum fee of 0.70$ per transaction if you use email payment. Withdrawal is 2.40$ per action but if you don't empty the account that often it shouldn't cost too much.

No idea if they're good but the rates seem tolerable even for donations.

Golden Hacker Defender does exist, can be purchased, and no it is NOT GPL..

http://www.hxdef.org/antidetection.php

They even have a license..

Paid versions are not released under GPL licence.
Every customer who buys antidetection service agrees with this licence.
Customer is not allowed to spread the product or its parts in neither binary nor source code form.
Violating of this licence will issue in loss of any support
and also in impossibility of buying new updates and other products and services.
Customer can do whatever he/she wants with his/her product except
all activities that are forbidden in this licence.
Customer can even modify the source code or the binary form of the product.
Customer is fully responsible for the application of boughten product.
Provider of antidetection service reserves the right to refuse any customers order.
If customers order is accepted customer pledges to pay the full sum before he/she gets the product.
Provider pledges to assemble the product and send it to the customer in 5 working days.
If provider is not able to fulfil the order the customer will get all his/her money back.
All payments are provided by e-gold (http://www.e-gold.com/ rarely by prior arrangement
payments via Moneybookers (http://www.moneybookers.com/ can be accepted too.
Customer will receive relevant payment information after provider accepts the order.

Moneybookers seems to be one such alternative. Wikipedia is accepting donations through them for their current fund drive.

He lists paypal.com as "broken"; how about https://www.moneybookers.com/app/login.pl

Stephan

http://www.moneybookers.com/

MoneyBookers is an international alternative to Paypal... I haven't used it, but came across it while looking up money transfer services for a friend...

I have been hitted hard by PayPal's decision not to send cheques to my country, which is an EU member.

I plan to use MoneyBookers instead. I have communicated with their support department for a small problem and my experience was very positive, they seem to care about their customers and they offer very good support.

Another alternative is iKobo which gives you an ATM card to withdraw money from your account.

Waiting for story becoming old so nobody will care to moderate and using it to reply like "STFU" is too plain low.

http://www.moneybookers.com/

Ask them and have fun with your commissions from Skype. I seem to hurt your business since no need to be that rude while replying to a post. /. quality getting low every day...

It's not a monopoly because we have http://www.ikobo.com/ and http://www.moneybookers.com/

The listed alternatives aren't. They take somewhere between 100 and 300 Euros/$ in setup fees, which means you've gotta shell that out before you can make any transactions.

For a small site taking donations, that kills the option right there.

The only real alternative I found to paypal is Moneybookers.

In addition, there is http://www.moneybookers.com/ that also allows online money transfer and is based in UK and supports more countries than PayPal

What sucks is that both services want you to have a user ID before using them.

There is also Western Union that does online transfers but it is only for USA I think and their charges are high IMO.