Slashdot Mirror

The M18 milestone of Mozilla has binaries with the MathML support compiled in, so you might like to give that a try. If you feel a little more adventurous, here are some pages with more recent binaries with MathML support - Linux and Win32. These also have SVG support compiled in as well for vector images and the Linux binaries have XSL as well.

For more general information, take a look at the Mozilla MathML page.

Cheers,

Toby Haynes

You mean SVG? The non-proprietary W3C developed vector graphics format that I can view (admittedly only a limited subset of) in my browser today?

Stuart.

It will be skinnable in newer versions

I really hope that by "skinnable" you mean that it will use the widget set that your window manager & desktop environment provides, or at the very least provide that as an option.

That last thing in the world we need are 500 "desktop-ready" applications, each with their own skin format. I already use four different applications that have separate theme formats: XMMS, Nautilus, Mozilla and gkrellm. Combined with GTK and Sawmill, that's 6 different theme formats I have to keep track of. (Well, that's kind of a lie; I have Mozilla installed so I can use Galeon...)

I don't need a themeable package manager, ICQ client, mailreader, image editor, web server, and SETI@Home client. Desktop environments provide those widget sets for a reason...

Jay (=

Don't use Netscape 6 as a metric! NS6 was branched from a pretty old version of Mozilla. Go to mozilla.org and download a nightly build before you pass judgement. The Mozilla team has just recently begun the optimization phase, so it should be getting increasingly faster and lighter as time goes on.

Try a nightly build from here
0.6 is quite old. It is a snapshot of the MN6 branch at the time Netscape 6 was released. That branch was cut on 9/22 and development on the branch (lasting about 6 weeks) was slower than it was on the trunk. Nightly trunk builds at the Netscape 6/Mozilla 0.6 release point were significantly better than 0.6 and we've gotten a lot better since then.
--Asa

Mozilla engineers are working on all these things to reduce the disk and memory footprint without throwing away any functionality. As it stands, it is still a fast browser, *much* better at rendering web pages and more standards compliant than any other browser on Linux.

Leaky, from the mozilla project, works really well. It works with any C or C++ project.

• [RFE] Backend support for all page prefs on a URL by URL basis
• [Feature] JavaScript auto-disable per-domain RFE
• Prevent repeating pop-up windows

Cheers //Johan

• [RFE] Backend support for all page prefs on a URL by URL basis
• [Feature] JavaScript auto-disable per-domain RFE
• Prevent repeating pop-up windows

Cheers //Johan

• [RFE] Backend support for all page prefs on a URL by URL basis
• [Feature] JavaScript auto-disable per-domain RFE
• Prevent repeating pop-up windows

Cheers //Johan

• [RFE] Backend support for all page prefs on a URL by URL basis
• [Feature] JavaScript auto-disable per-domain RFE
• Prevent repeating pop-up windows

Cheers //Johan

• [RFE] Backend support for all page prefs on a URL by URL basis
• [Feature] JavaScript auto-disable per-domain RFE
• Prevent repeating pop-up windows

Cheers //Johan

I'd like to write a patch for Mozilla that probably take me about 10 minutes to implement...

It's marked help wanted so put your code where your mouth is and help us fix this issue.

One problem is that many software packages have a large number of authors, and it can be hard to track them all down and coordinate legal permission for an exception. Just witness the hassles that the Mozilla project is having to go through to relicense the code under the GPL (although things like this can be done, with perseverence). (It would have been much easier if they had taken RMS's advice and made the NPL/MPL GPL-compatible to begin with.)

(This is another advantage to the FSF's policy of copyright assignment: there is only a single copyright holder to deal with in case of problems.)

One problem is that many software packages have a large number of authors, and it can be hard to track them all down and coordinate legal permission for an exception. Just witness the hassles that the Mozilla project is having to go through to relicense the code under the GPL (although things like this can be done, with perseverence). (It would have been much easier if they had taken RMS's advice and made the NPL/MPL GPL-compatible to begin with.)

(This is another advantage to the FSF's policy of copyright assignment: there is only a single copyright holder to deal with in case of problems.)

Given that you're posting around here, I'm guessing you have a Linux box handy. Here are some of my favorite sysadmin tools:

• dig - This is a more advanced tool for seeing what's going on with DNS.
• nmap - A great tool for probing your server to make sure you haven't left anything open.
• Apache Bench (ab) - This simple but effective benchmarking tool comes with the Apache server. It's great to see how your site will perform under load.
• wget - a tool for remotely getting web pages; it's very versatile -- you can even use to save a copy of your whole site, just in case.
• Ethereal - Having trouble figuring out what's going on between the browser and your server? This will capture all the packets and decode them into a nice conversation for you.
• vmstat - want to know why your server is slow? Get used to watching the vmstat numbers while it's fast, so you can see what's different when it's slow. It's raw numbers that are hard to interpret, but it's worth getting to know. Maybe this should be another Ask Slashdot question?
• Netsaint - this is my favorite automatic monitoring package. Once your site is in production, you can set this up to patrol things and make sure everything is working. That lets you get on with other stuff, knowing you'll hear about trouble pronto.
• MRTG - A tool that makes excellent long-term graphs of bandwidth use.
• IPtraf - Where MRTG gives you the broad overview, this gives you the second-by-second nitty gritty.
• perl - Last but most is Perl, a Swiss Army chainsaw of languages. If you'll be doing any web stuff, pick up a copy of Learning Perl and spend a little time with it. Once you learn the magic of regular expressions, you will never again say "that's impossible!" to a problem.

As far as non-sysadmin stuff goes, here are some of my other favorites:

• Bugzilla - this is a free and flexible bug tracking system. Highly recommended, especially for those people who don't think they need a bug tracking system. Our designers thought it was silly to start, but even they use it all the time now.
• CVS - Like bug tracking, most web sites don't think they need version control. Most web sites are wrong! CVSweb is also recommended.
• HTML Tidy - bad HTML in, good HTML out.
• WebTV Simulator - Sure, you and I don't use WebTVs, but a lot of people do. Browse your site with this to see how the other half surfs.
• VMWare - Along similar lines, VMWare is a Windows box emulator. I use it to keep a bunch of synthetic windows machines with a variety of OS versions and browser versions. It makes QA much easier.

And if there are particular tasks that have you stumped, come back and ask again. 'Round these parts, we have big toolboxes.

I found the problem. I hadn't deleted my profile, which was buried in that really annoying "Documents and Settings" tree.

Bugzilla bug 62592

I bet Mozilla could use some of these techniques.

In the case of .NET, what MS is really saying is "we do the Java VM better than the Java VM." The core of .NET is a virtual machine which is supposed to provide all the benefits of the JVM with less focus on a single language - and therefore not subject to that one language's limitations.

If you consider the fact that the JVM has been used as a target for an enormous number of other languages, the .NET approach actually makes a lot of technical sense. Interoperability between languages - for example, between a server-side web scripting language and a more heavy-duty back end language - becomes trivial when both languages execute in the same virtual machine. People are already doing this sort of thing to some extent, using things like Rhino (Javascript on the JVM) or Jacl (Tcl in Java) as a scripting environment to invoke heavier-duty Java objects.

This approach isn't completely mainstream at the moment, but it has a lot of benefits. Microsoft has paid attention to these possibilities and is betting their development strategy on it, in the same way as they bet on COM/ActiveX previously.

I suspect this will be very successful amongst loyal MS developers. True, you'd have to be drinking serious amounts of Kool-Aid to be willing to devote development resources to developing in a brand-new language like C#, which because of its origins has little likelihood of gaining the kind of multi-independent-vendor popularity that Java has. But if you already use one of the other languages that support .NET, there's little risk in taking advantage of it if you develop only for MS platforms.

I look forward to seeing open source projects compete in this arena. The JVM opened the door to this, but Sun's proprietary attitude to Java has caused many problems. Either the JVM must be freed from its proprietary roots, or an open source alternative must arise. Either way, open source just makes an incredible amount of sense for such a strategic base platform - as with Linux, it becomes much easier for vendors of any stripe to commit to it.

Yes LaTeX2HTML is good. A kludge, but a good kludge none the less. However it remains a kludge.

So, the prequisite for something like this to gather steam is a MathML browser. Another killer reason to get the Moz Lizard.

Then there are structuring issues.

A mad sprawl as generated by a Wiki? Why not, Wiki's tend to self reorganised themselves.

Or a highly scholarly arrangement of committees and subcommittees etc. etc.

I think there is room for both...

Who will host it? Source Forge?

Please someone, start up the ultimate Free Math Site as a Wiki!

The mall he goes into to visit RePet is the Toronto Eaton's Centre!
I live in T.O. and that one scene killed the disbelief for a little bit. A 3000km Taxi ride??!:)

Posted using Fizzila, Carbonated for OS X.

Pope

Freedom is Slavery! Ignorance is Strength! Monopolies offer Choice!

You should only choose another license if you specifically intend to allow anyone to make closed-source, commercial use of your code.

That's why it's pointed out in an earlier comment that Microsoft wouldn't base an offerring on Linux, but on BSD - as Apple is doing, with Mac OS X.

The Free Software Foundation recommends against the general use of the LGPL - formerly called the GNU Library Public License but now called the lesser public license.

Generally, you'd only want to use the LGPL if there is already an existing high-quality library that is available in closed-source form and you want yours to be adopted by people who want to keep the source to their applications closed. This was done, for example, with glibc, to make a replacement for the proprietary libc popular.

But if you're writing a totally new library, or if you feel that your library is a significant improvement on an existing closed-source library, using the GPL rather than the LGPL will draw new free software into the world, and although it won't prevent people from selling your work, it will prevent them from holding the source closed.

Licenses that would be inappropriate for competing with Microsoft would be the BSD License or the MIT License, the Apache License or the Mozilla Public License.

That's why, despite Mozilla, we still need a good browser that is GPL'ed.

For lists of a lot of licenses, see the opensource.org approved licenses and GPL Compatible Licenses - these last basically can be combined in software with GPL'ed code. Also note License that are incompatible with the GPL.

Upon further examination, I see that if you are not going to use the GPL, you should at least use a license that would allow your code to be used in the same project with GPL'ed code. This is the case with the revised BSD license (without the advertising class) and the MIT license but not the Mozilla license, or, significantly, the Python license - in some cases the incompatibility is not caused by restrictions by what you can do with the code but in the case of Python it's because the licensed is governed by the laws of the state of Virginia in the U.S.A.

Sometimes people do specifically choose to use things like the MIT License because they intend for it to be used for commercial use. My friend Andy Green who wrote the ZooLib cross-platform application framework is an independent consultant, and he had it in mind to make things easier for other consultants and small commercial developers, as well as free software developers. It was a complex decision but they people with an interest in the code ultimately agreed on the MIT license.

On the one hand, this allows people like Microsoft to write cross-platform closed-source products that would compete with free software - so MS could port their products to ZooLib and have source compatibility with Linux, Windows and Mac (and BeOS too), and this source would be closed, which could be a problem.

On the other hand, the ready availability of an open source but commercially-compatible crossplatform library gives power to the third-party developer at the expense of all OS vendors whether closed or open source, which I feel is arguably a good thing.

So it is a complex decision, really. But I think that, when in doubt, use the GPL. If you hold the copyright yourself, you can always supply a separately licensed version to people who pay you for it. For example, while the CygWin library (a POSIX API for Windows, part of a GNU programming environment that is largely source-code compatible with Linux) is under the GPL, you can purchase a proprietary license for it from Redhat which is actually pretty expensive from the terms they used to have on their page.

Michael D. Crawford
GoingWare Inc

Will some more people please vote for the bug that prevents it from working behind MS Proxy 2.0! There's a patch, they just won't check it in!

Perhaps if you want to work on a smaller Mozilla related project check out MozDev however most of these are projects that build on top of Mozilla using XUL and js.

Alternatively why not look on a site such as sourceforge and look for a smaller open source project you can help out with.

The company I work for is (unfortunately) going to roll our POS platform out on eNT. We get to give Microsoft at least $1*10e7 for the privilege, and they still have no idea how we're going to cram this whole monolithic Win32 app into these pathetically small 120MHz 586s with only 16MB RAM and 1.2GB.

And nobody wanted to hear Linux when it was suggested, offered, and screamed. "It's just not Microsoft, and our corporate direction is Microsoft." and the ever popular "Well, we have a lot of resources we can tap into for Windows support." Never mind that the AMOUNT of support required drops exponentially...

If that's our corporate direction, we need a new corporate compass. Sheesh.

John

P.S. Mozilla 0.6 rocks!

I've created a Links Panel for Mozilla (works with nightlies, Moz0.6 and NS6) and I've wrapped up the History Panel RFE from bug 32594

Other packages/projects can be retrieved from mozdev.org and a very cool forum reader called Forumzilla

Enjoy!

Actually, it seems to be a router blocking it, or somesuch as opposed to a traffic issue. See:

http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62130

-=-etrnl-=-

As another poster mentioned, and as pointed out in the Mozilla roadmap, Mozilla 0.6 is a build from the Netscape branch, not the Mozilla trunk. It's something for people who want to extend or develop for Netscape 6 with some added fixes and updates from the trunk.

I'm personally going to stick with Mozilla trunk nightlies, considering the mess that was the NS6 release. I imagine Moz0.6 incorporates many fixes, but the trunk nightlies are just beautiful at this point. Speed is nearly (if not already) equal with IE5 in Win9x, and the speed under Linux seems to be increasing slightly. At this point, there seem to be more regressions than new bugs cropping up.

Go to the nightlies directory and grab the latest build for your platform. Scroll down to get the absolute latest build for your platform, and be amazed. I should note that, at least in my experience, using the installer seems to allow some strange bugs to creep in - grab the main tarball/zips if you can and be blown away. It's become a good browser at this point.

As another poster mentioned, and as pointed out in the Mozilla roadmap, Mozilla 0.6 is a build from the Netscape branch, not the Mozilla trunk. It's something for people who want to extend or develop for Netscape 6 with some added fixes and updates from the trunk.

I'm personally going to stick with Mozilla trunk nightlies, considering the mess that was the NS6 release. I imagine Moz0.6 incorporates many fixes, but the trunk nightlies are just beautiful at this point. Speed is nearly (if not already) equal with IE5 in Win9x, and the speed under Linux seems to be increasing slightly. At this point, there seem to be more regressions than new bugs cropping up.

Go to the nightlies directory and grab the latest build for your platform. Scroll down to get the absolute latest build for your platform, and be amazed. I should note that, at least in my experience, using the installer seems to allow some strange bugs to creep in - grab the main tarball/zips if you can and be blown away. It's become a good browser at this point.

However it can be worked around; Debian for example have done this.

Cheers //Johan

However it can be worked around; Debian for example have done this.

Cheers //Johan

you know, reading over the release notes is really scary... how has this major data loss bug, first submitted almost four months ago, been allowed to make it into the release versions:

http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49180

(It seems that nobody has looked at it in the past six weeks from the sudden stop to the discussion.)

I just hope all the keyboard shortcuts work appropriately on Windows, since I need to use assistive technologies, that has really been a difficulty. Wouldn't be so bad if it was using native interface widgets...

-Robert

Mozilla 0.6 is a milestone release based on the same branch as Netscape 6. It is aimed at developers who wish to create products that extend Netscape 6 or who wish to port it. Read the release notes for more info.

The 0.6 tag has little to do with the "version" of Mozilla that NS6 is based off because Mozilla doesn't even use version numbers yet. See the roadmap for more details.

Netscape had the -install option to install a custom colormap, and IE autdetects this...

This really makes Mozilla unusable on 8 bit displays (i.e. like on my Ultra 5).

More votes on bug #22337 might help...

Stable releases (like 0.6) live in the "releases" direcory, try http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/releases/mozill a0.6/

The site doesn't do a good job of telling you WHAT to download (it just points you to the uber-confusing nightly download directory).

Here's what I know. The build comments page points you to a Linux, Mac and a Windows version. These all live in the same download directory from 12/6/2000.

Hope that helps people out.

The site doesn't do a good job of telling you WHAT to download (it just points you to the uber-confusing nightly download directory).

Here's what I know. The build comments page points you to a Linux, Mac and a Windows version. These all live in the same download directory from 12/6/2000.

Hope that helps people out.

The site doesn't do a good job of telling you WHAT to download (it just points you to the uber-confusing nightly download directory).

Here's what I know. The build comments page points you to a Linux, Mac and a Windows version. These all live in the same download directory from 12/6/2000.

Hope that helps people out.

The site doesn't do a good job of telling you WHAT to download (it just points you to the uber-confusing nightly download directory).

Here's what I know. The build comments page points you to a Linux, Mac and a Windows version. These all live in the same download directory from 12/6/2000.

Hope that helps people out.

It actually is.
Take a look at the Mozilla Roadmap to see what releases are planned, the time frame, and all that good stuff.

Does anyone know of any CVS mirrors for the Mozilla source? All I seem to see on their CVS page is cvs-mirror.mozilla.org. Perhaps it just has too much traffic at the moment.

Try the mozilla nightly builds (Mozilla). They are fast, and use less memory than NS 6.


He who knows not, and knows he knows not is a wise man

Math ML

You need MathML. Already available in special nightlies of Mozilla for Windows and Linux.

Gerv

I'm surprised I hear no mention of the Math Markup language. I wouldn't expect my Grandma to care, but you'd think it would be a big hit in the geek community. Sure would be nice to post math equations on the web without using that damn *.pdf format.

call my post flamebait if you will, but if there's ever been a browser on the bottom of my list, it's that damn adobe acrobat reader.

Are you sure you know how this system works?

If Mozilla were to cease operations today and be disbanded, there would be no shortage of browsers for *NIX.

That being said, Mozilla still sucks on Linux compared to W2K and solaris.

--

Maybe at the moment, but there are two linked efforts underway to improve support for OS X (an OS that isn't even out yet). Firstly, it's being Carbonized and secondly, there is work to make a hybrid browser - use Quartz for the rendering and Unix for the TCP/IP. Full info is here. In other words, Mozilla is coming to OS X. This is a minor miracle considering how Apple have done their very best to ignore Mozilla.

Until then, we'll stick with NS4.76 and Netscape calendar I'm sure...