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KDE 2.0.1 is out
KDE 2.0.1 is out. Announcement is here and a summary of fixes is here. You may also want to look at the FAQ before you install it. Lots of bug were fixed (specially to Konqueror). Binaries are available for RedHat (6.x and 7.0) and SuSE (6.4, 7.0, and 7.0 Sparc) as well as the usual tarballs. Japanese users may want to install the Japanese translations which have been added to this release. Any comments from people about Konqueror?
Has anyone had experience using Konqueror without the rest of KDE running?
One annoyance I had with 2.0 were the number of kdeinit/kio processes started up with Konqueror, that would persist even after it was terminated. (Which also made memory usage comparisons with NS4 a rather tricky affair)
Aside from that, the deluge of debugging messages and inability to display local directories turned me back to NS4, but I'm willing to give Konqy another go at it...
iSKUNK!
What I consider strange is that many people are complaining about instability of (especially) KWord and Konqueror.
s
:)
I have tested many of the beta's and RC's myself and they generally worked better than the 2.0 release.
However, to compile 2.0 release, I used pgcc with -O6, which produces highly optimized code but *may* not work in all cases. A large project like KDE, which takes a day to compile even on a dual celeron system is very likely to trigger bugs in only half-decent, just-apply-this-patch-and-it-should-work-compiler
And indeed I encounter many more crashes then before. This time, I'm going to reinstall my old gcc version (I believe it was gcc 2.95.1) and just compile with -O2 (the default) and see how it works out.
I mean, highly optimized is cool and all, but it's also great if it actually *works*!
I suspect that many people have used very 'new' and untested compilers because in the slashdot thread just after release there was much discussion about that (which is why I tried to do it
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
Good thing I didn't waste time with the kde2 freebsd port. Now I get to download the whole ball of wax for 2.01. Over a 56K modem. 56K if I'm lucky. I just do not get it, I update the OS with cvsup, I update the ports collection with cvsup ... why can't I get one single PORT that updates with cvsup instead of downloading the WHOLE damn set all over again? This is the same beef I have with rpm's.
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I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
>I usually compile both XFree 4.0 and the kernel with -O6 (and with -fexpensive-optimizations) using GCC version 2.95.2, and havent had any problems at all so far.
The above poster was compiling with pgcc, which optimizes very aggressively, periodically breaking code. In the general case, I would not call pgcc a very usable compiler. It is *definitely* not meant to compile the Linux kernel. For particular purposes, it may be worth using, but I think a lot of the performance gap between gcc and pgcc has been closed in recent releases.
And, if I recall, gcc treats all -O values above 3 the same. So, -O6 will produce the same code as -O3. Actually, that may have changed since egcs remerged, but if so I haven't heard about it...
--Lenny
How so ? I thought it was approximately a Window manager. That's what the Windowmaker homepage says.
This is true, but it is really not possible to use some of Kde's best features without also using Kwin.
The basic desktop stuff (taskbar, session manager, etc) is sort of like an extension of kwin. But KDE is much more than just kwin and friends. It's an application development framework upon which one can develop usable applications, and an application suite that uses that framework. The Window manager (and friends) is just a small part of KDE.
It's all right for people to think of Kde as a window manager.
KDE is not even close to being a Window manager, and those that mistakenly believe that KDE is a "window manager" project are a mile from the mark. It sort of reminds me of the three blind men and the elephant. One man uses kwin and says "ah-huh! KDE is very much like a Window manager". The second one is shown koffice by a KDE fan, and says "so that's it! KDE is sort of like Microsoft Word". Another man attends a seminar on component programming where DCOP is mentioned, and concludes that KDE is a CORBA replacement.
Actually, the last two characters are fictional (but are invented to expose the short-sightedness of the first), but the first one is very common.
so... u can run blackbox on anything. come to think of it.. twm and fvwm work on anything. haha
stephen
If you want to run a blotted window manger that runs everything for you, why not just run windows. There are other good WM's out there. Nice little packages that dont take all of your computer memory to run. Try Blackbox.
I am the Pumpkin King!
You know... the plugable-tweakable desktop environment that's been arround for YEARS.
You should see mine, it's quite pretty.
Blar.
If double-click is going to maximize the window, please wait until the second click is released, and don't accept it as a double click if the mouse is moved more than a trivial amount since the second mouse-down. This is NUMBER 1 ANNOYING BEHAVIOR of the Windoze and KDE interface! PLEASE FIX IT! The reason is that if you click a window to the top and then decide to drag it, the push to drag it maximizes the window.
There is no way to configure it so that you can move the window with the left mouse button without raising it, yet allow you to click the left button and raise the window. This behavior is common in most X window managers and is really good.
Please set the default so that clicking in a window's contents does not raise it! This very annoying behavior of Windoze makes it impossible to make multi-window interfaces that are usable (and results in bastardizations like "MDI" and tiled windows). If this default was changed I think we would see some innovative user interfaces come up for KDE that we won't see on Windoze. Although this can be set, as a software developer I would really like to see the default changed so that I can assumme this in my GUI design.
Thanks, thats all for now.
Does KDE run well on the BSDs?
Initially the installation was pretty clever. The fella doing that port missed some of the configs like GIF support and such for QT. A lot of that has been fixed up now, and the installation is pretty much working as well as MouseDown has stated. It is quite a long compile since nobody has posted binaries for any of the BSD's.
I've got this on a k6-450, and it runs really sweet. Konqueror has been working great, and looks a LOT better than NS. KNodes, the Usenet reader, looks to be a nice app, but crashes a lot under KDE 2.0. Supposedly this has been corrected for 2.0.1 though.
In short, if you're looking to get a desktop environment going on a BSD box, I'd highly recommend KDE 2.0 for ya. Been all good stuff so far under FreeBSD 4-Stable.
The line must be drawn here. This far. No further.
- It hasn't crashed on me once
- It seems to be faster than Netscape
- It seems much less bloated than Netscape
- Minimal rendering errors.
What amazes me is that the whole KDE project has gotten 2.0, which represents a relatively gigantic amount of progress over 1.x, together so quickly. Whatever magic they're doing, I hope they keep doing it.--
SecretAsianMan (54.5% Slashdot pure)
Washington, DC: It's like Hollywood for ugly people.
The GNOME project was IMHO originally created for the sake of legal issues with QT. KDE's decision to use QT instead of GTK is really strange in all accounts, but when you look at historical matters, GTK was just a small hack of a TK used in the Gimp back when KDE was designed, and even more to the point, KDE is written in C++, and whereas GTK is written in C, it is a real challenge to find anything in it! (belive me, I've tryed!)
KDE has evolved from a nice friendly look combining the best from MacOS and Windows into a Semi-automatic road-hog that kicks ass in every way. It still bears a resemblance to Windows, but it is so superslick nowadays that you can hardly notice with a nice theme and a few modifycations.
In KDE 1.x my biggest asthetical concerns were based on the uglyness of QT. But as of QT 2.0 everything is cool, and I for one am flaberghasted by the results.
Remarkable effort on behalf of the KDE team!
THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU... finally someone else on this with a brain. and yes kde and gnome are both ugly and slow. my previous post says basically the same thing as this. and the problem with all u kde/gnome fanatics, is that u really can't see anything besides kde/gnome. "oh no they took my task bar"... "where are my icons"... why do i get a menu when i click on the desktop"...enlightenment is by far one of the best looking window managers i've ever seen. oh and someone said "kde is not a window manager".. hello... kwm is the default on it. that's the one they expect you to use. qt is slow as hell anyway. and they still aren't innovative. they still suck and are extremely slow.
Tres|Status
stephen
The Start Menu didn't come from OS/2. The taskbar didn't come from OS/2. The only thing you could argue that came from OS/2 was tabbed dialogs, and the Microsoft implementation was just plain better than OS/2 (for v3 and before).
Lots of things look similar between Windows and OS/2, but that makes sense because they were both originally developed to have an similar interface to each other by Microsoft..
The latest HelixGNOME, however, runs quite slowly
Looks like someone forgot to tell my computer about this, I'm running Helix on my P133 with 48M of RAM, no external cache, and an old S3 Trio video card, and it's running quite nicely... I've had to turn off some of the extras like sound and animation, but overall it's running good.
It's not as fast as the blazingly-fast Enlightenment (which doesn't deserve its reputation of being bloated anymore - it's almost as fast and lean as Blackbox), but I quite like Helix - it's much faster than KDE2 on my machine, which is mainly to do with the fact that it eats less memory.
Just to prove that I'm not completely bashing KDE, I have to say that Qt is a much nicer toolkit than GTK, especially now it's GPLed.
--
You don't become a failure until you are content with being one.
For a fellow Zappa fan:
KMenu -> Panel Menu -> Configure -> Menu Editor...
There's a bunch you can't remove, unfortunately, like bookmarks, etc.
Myself I usually avoid the menu altogether and make icons for commonly used apps. If I use something a lot I drag the icon to the panel. For many things I simply hit Alt-F2 and start typing the name of the app I want. The autocomplete is cool. I use Netscape only when necessary and a simple "Alt-F2 n " will run it much quicker than any menu. I find myself also hitting "Alt-F2 im " to load up imwheel as well and "Alt-F2 kp " to manage processes when Netscape freaks out.
What I really miss is KDesktopViewer from KDE 1, which placed a little icon in the tray which produced, on mouse click, a simple menu containing all of the entries from my desktop. I imagine you'd like that as well.
The Konqueror is excellent in general. It just needs a little fine tuning in a few small HTML rendering glitches and Java/Javascript support. KOffice looks great, but is in very serious need of improvements functionally. The table's work very strangely--it's not user-friendly or practical. It doesn't import anything other than its native format and can't even export HTML or RTF. You think, being in an XML form on the most popular Webserving platform on Earth, it could at least export a web page. But it has good infrustructure--I just don't see it as a complete product. It's not useful in any practical sense yet. When it is, it'll be worthwhile to start writing wizards. --Matthew
> The HTML rendering engine needs work in some places, but people should keep in mind that this is the KDE file browser.
Not so, Konquerer is the KDE generic browser. As in it is able to select and view arbitrary content via a variety of access methods. The file listing component need have nothing to do with the HTML renderer -- and probably shouldnt, since I much prefer a column/graph component for managing large numbers of files.
I'm not terribly enthused about having to do a whole damn make world just to get a version of OpenSSH it'll be happy with tho...
--
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
hopefully konqueror will support https by now so I can bank online too.
Konqueror already supported HTTPS in 2.0. However if you are compiling it yourself you need have openssl installed before you run configure. More info here
I'm using it right now...
I haven't had much time to mess with it, as I just got kdebase-2.0.1 compiled, but I can say I haven't had any problems for the last 1/2 hour or so...
I'm hoping the annoying "won't let go of a previous URL no matter what you type in" bug is gone, and I'm hoping there's a bit more javascript support (the only two complaints I've had with it since the the later beta versions and on). I notice it still doesn't seem to support "javascript:" URLs.
I now use Konqueror for nearly all of my browsing. I generally only switch back to Netscape 4.76 when I need support for a javascript feature that's not supported in kjs (and/or khtml?) or when Konqueror wouldn't let me go to the page I wanted (due to the aforementioned "won't let go of URL" bug which I suspect is probably fixed in 2.0.1).
Other than that, in regards to KDE2 as a whole, the only other real complaint I have is that I can't get kmultimedia to compile properly from source. (Specifically, kmidi throws up a bunch of errors [e.g. "playlist.cpp:49: conflicting types for `class KApplication * thisapp' "] and dies. everything else seems to compile okay...though lately I've been getting "bad MD5 cookie" errors trying to run Kaiman on one of my systems, and I don't know why....)
Ah, the joys of compiling everything myself. Since it won't compile of my machines that I've tried it on recently, but I haven't seen anyone else complaining about it, I figure it's something I've done with my setup, and therefore not really a KDE2 problem anyway.
Does anyone know of a good place to see what aspects of the DOM and which javascript functions have been implemented so far? I haven't noticed anything in the "CHANGELOG" files...
A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for Evil.
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
That's details, and UNIX programs fail here too. At least MS Windows widgets LOOK the same, that can't be said for NIX programs. Also, I think the ideal way to handle this is to take the issue out of the developers hands entirely. Developers have no rights, they should not decide shortcut keys for apps. They should simply register various events, and allow the user to pick the shortcuts. There could even be a standard set of events so "shortcut maps" could be installed on the system.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
KWord (at least the one shipped with Mandrake 7.2) has incredibly annoying flaws in selecting text. After you select a block, pushing delete or backspace will not delete the block - you need to use "Cut" to do that. Also, if you push backspace or delete, the text will appear to remain highlighted but is actually not. This does not become apparent until you force the window to refresh. Plus, I can't figure out how to permanently (i.e. between sessions) turn off all those annoying toolbars! Along with its tendency to crash, these problems make KWord unusable. You may unfortunately have to stick with StarOffice as I did.
Oh I know, I'm not knocking it - in fact, I'm sure KOffice will eventually become an outstanding product. Konqueror hasn't been around long at all, and in my opinion it already far surpasses both Netscape and Mozilla in many ways. I'd bet that fairly soon it will become the browser of choice for Linux (it's already mine).
"Well kids, you tried your best, and you failed. The lesson is, never try."
I was trying to figure this out myserlf, but I haven't had much luck. I assume it's detailed in some configuration file somewhere, but I haven't found it yet. Same for the QT widget themes - I can't find the config files anywhere to mess around with. Actually I'll check bugs.kde.org and if it's not there I'll wishlist it for the future (2.1, 2.2, ..?)
Interesting.... My crappy hardware consists of a Pentium MMX 200 with 48Mb RAM. And Helixgnome seems to run faster than KDE2, especially if you have more than one or two apps running.
I guess that KDE2 uses more memory than Helixgnome, so if you have less than 64Mb RAM this will slow it down because of the high swap space usage.
So it really depends on exactly what crappy hardware you have as to which DE will work better for you.
I, too, am now using Konqueror as my primary browser. I still have to keep netscape around for one or two websites, sigh...
I have a few problems with java (perhaps I need to switch to kaffe), and some wierdass layouts that some web "designers" love cause it fits, but overall it's great.
My main criticism is with the separation of the KDE desktop from the browser. I used to use kfm in WindowMaker or icewm to get a lightweight but vey flexible setup.
I like it the way it is now better. With kfm, I can't use it as a file browser without the desktop icons appearing on my Windowmaker desktop, and KDE icons clash horribly with the Windowmaker look. Now I can use Konqueror (as I am right this instant) as simply a file/web browser, with no desktop to get in the way. Throw on the kstep theme and it fits right in.
(Of course, I normally use KDE as my primary desktop, but I still switch over to Windowmaker occasionally, since it still beats all others in the aesthetics department)
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Again, considering how many things it does right that the major browsers make ugly, I'm not complaining.
Boss of nothin. Big deal.
Son, go get daddy's hard plastic eyes.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
This is the best there is in all enviroments because if you are doing some gui programs and something gos wrong it gives you a back trace which will help you point out the bug or in some other way :)
I didn't have any of these problems with KDE on FreeBSD. Of course, I use the ports so it wasn't I who had to configure a linux-centric suite into a non-linux environment. (KDE is getting over this centricity problem, but it's still there in spots) The only BSD related problem I had was with the konsole segfault bug, which is supposed to be fixed in 2.0.1.
I especially didn't have any boot block problems.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
KWord definitely sucks
Well, yeah... But KWord and the rest of KOffice are still beta software.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
No, that is the interface. The interface is not how things look, it is how things are done in the program. User Input. Pictures are secondary. If we have toolbars in multiple apps that is great, but if they arent the same and the menus arent the same and the keyboard commands are not the same how can you possibly call it a consistent interface? Oh and the example of Acrobat is way off too. Of course when I go to a site and click on a pdf and the acrobat plugin loads it looks a lot like Acrobat, to my great surprise. But how similar is the acrobat interface to the Explorer interface? Beyond the fact that both have toolbars, menus, and hotlinks, none. The menus and toolbars and keyboard shortcuts are not the same. One of these days we will have apps with consistent interfaces on x86, but Microsoft still doesn't get it. Apple did it but only by taking control away from programmers. We could try to do it in Linux but it would require an effort on everyone's part to conform to a standard. By the way why do people want a File menu in every freaking window?
Sure, everyone gets excited with the x.0 releases, but the peeps in the know, realize that it is the following x.0.1 or x.1 releases that are stable and feature filled.
I'm the biggest KDE fan, but why is this even a slashdot article? This is a minor bugfix release. Will there be another KDE article next month for 2.1? Let's not smother a good thing with too much trivial reportage.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
I have especially noticed that with the newer versions of KDE(2), it is getting to the point where my mom and sisters could actually use it instead of windows. BillyG was right when he decided to integrate components together, he just did it for the wrong reason. Congrats to the KDE team, keep up the good work!
---
Question authority, but raise your hand first!
I had the same problen in RH 6.2 and 7. sndconfig said 'core dumped... segmentation fault' so I went back to my old SB16 which worked. I finally resolved it by installing Mandrake 7.2 and it was like opening the door to a new world. Great distro. 5 or 6 mouse clicks in sndconfig and the music played with my Sb 64... plus KDE 2 and a trillion apps. If you're a newbie you'll like it. I've been running linux since RH 5 and I do. $3.99 at cheapbytes.com
when does KDE Me come out?
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
One thing that bothers me about Konqueror is that it doesn't have a setting that allows people to use single or double click when browsing files. Well, I rather "browse" files using the shell in an xterm/kconsole, but when using a filemanager I rather use double clicks.
/ The Arrow
/ The Arrow
"How lovely you are. So lovely in my straightjacket..." - Nny
I've only got two things I need in Konqueror to be able to ditch Netscape: java support and ssl support (one of my mail accounts has an https:// address).
So far, using a vanilla RH 6.2 host, Java applets appear in a separate window, if they run at all.
In order to get the 6.x RPMs to install, I also had to download an openssl rpm from rpmfind. I then tried to access a secured site, but it returns with the error: Unknown host (the server is up, since I can reach it from Netscape).
Is it a matter of getting the sources and configuring the setup by hand, or am I missing something?
Recommendations for the best choice of JDK are also welcomed.
I tried to install KDE 2 on Mandrake 7.1 from downloaded RPMs (took me a couple of days), and soon found myself in RPM hell. With my slow modem connection, I decided to save myself more work and ordered the Mandrake 7.2 CDs. Came up beautifully! Konqueror works great, though KOffice still has some stability problems.
My gripe: I just went to look at the KDE 2.0.1 upgrade, and found I wouldd have to download everything again! I don't know if it's possible, but it would have been nice to just be able to grab the changes. At this rate, I'm going to wait for KDE 2.1 -- should be just around the corner.
I thought it was krashing, not crashing....
well, doesn't matter as long as it worcs...
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On scale from -14 to 56 this post is '-15, Nonexistent'
True -- my point wasn't what it is as much as what it isn't. It isn't a dedicated web browser project.
I usually compile both XFree 4.0 and the kernel with -O6 (and with -fexpensive-optimizations) using GCC version 2.95.2, and havent had any problems at all so far.
/ The Arrow
/ The Arrow
"How lovely you are. So lovely in my straightjacket..." - Nny
Look, if you are going to use PRE tags (annoying to look at IMHO) then at least try to understand how they work....
no sig.
OMG - CODE tags. *sigh*
no sig.
There's a little program called kdebugdialog with which you can turn off the debug output that you don't want to see.
It took me while to get KDE2 compiled correctly. (Mostly because I first did the ./configure;make deal without reading ahead that I would have to specifically enable certain options like SSL, RPM, GIF rather than having them be autoconfigured. I still haven't gotten RPM support working in kpackage, for reasons that I don't entirely understand.) But I love browsing the web with Konqueror! Now that I installed Lesstif and got Flash running, I can go basically everywhere, without all the crashing I would get from Netscape. (And Konqueror hasn't bombed out my X server once, Mr. Andreeeesen!)
All kings is mostly rapscallions. -Mark Twain, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
Where are the packages?
Did you know that the potato packages of kde 2.0 came with a QT package with a different version of the QT version used to compile the other kde 2.0 packages?
Result: Uninstallable.
I think they forgot to mention how much fun it was to develop KDE 2.0.1. So much fun that they forgot about KDE League and improving speed.
What that is said, I think I will use Konqueror in my GNOME envoronment. Not a bad browser at all, except that the 2.0 version could not be used with iDrive. Can't wait to see if that is fixed.
--Can we fix it? Yes we can!
My main gripe with KDE is its themes, or lack of. I have been checking kde.themes.org twice a week or so and havent seen a new theme or new news in months! I don't know if it's because the administrator the site has disappeared or just because no one does KDE themes anymore. I would write a few themes myself if I had any artistic skills.
If I understand correctly, KDE has some impressive themeing abilities. The GUI widgets as well as the window borders and such can be themed!
The second major gripe is window management. How do I tell KDE's window manager that I want a non-KDE app/window (like XMMS) to always be on top?
This isn't a flame but a concern and questions..
Geoff
Konqueror on Linux is better than Netscape on Linux.
Wow, what an endorsement!
Konqueror, it doesn't suck as much as Netscape!
Anybody need to do anything else beyond what was in the instructions to get documentation to work?
-1; Troll for the previous post?
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I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
from a clean install of Mandrake 7.2 I found kword and maybe some of the others did the nasty trick of disappearing along with my work.
.oO0Oo.
I've seen the SIGNAL detected box a few times too.
I wouldn't recommend it for people who rely on their word processor sticking around until the end of the day.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
KDE 2 runs perfectly on my P2-266 with 128 Meg RAM... Very fast and looking beautiful! Even my mom can use it now, especially Kmail. She had trouble with that :)
But now she doesn't ask me what to do anymore :(
I was wondering... With the Windows-Keyboard; when's KDE going to release their own K-Keyboard?
With a nice K-key and stuff, or is that for the KDE2001 release? ;)
"I did this cuz Linux gives me a woody"
all this talk about konquer being great... does anyone have any opinions on koffice? how often does it chrash? does it do file conversions well? the main reason i am looking at kde over gnome is it seems that they will be having a better suite of applications.. to be honest... i didn't really like star office.. so i need something that will read my old wp and quatro pro files (ofcourse i could always use wplinux...)
I believe sex is highly over rated... unless it involves me
The debug messages are a little annoying, but you can just redirect to /dev/null.
/dev/null?
You can? When I run Konqueror, the debug messages come, not from Konqueror itself, but from all the deamons that it spawns. How would I direct that output to
Hi.
I have only two complaints with Konqueror:
1) It doesn't remember passwords very well. It did until around RC2.. oh well, people complained then too..
2) I have yet to get Java working properly....
Can anyone tell me _EXACTLY_ how to get java working?? I've got 3 JDK2's on my system, and it works in Mozilla, but Konq's a no-go...
I've sarched all over, but I've had no clear explanation on how to properly set Java up..
Thanks for any help,
Ben
Take a look at the interior KDE design. Far superior to the rest, and very very different from Windows (unlike Gnome). The widget set can look like anything, if the default look is somewhat similar to Windows, so what? KDE is a lot more than a widget set.
who gives a shit. it's like the mac vs windows argument. THERE ARE OTHER CHOICES PEOPLE!!!
why not try something like blackbox, enlightenment (not the canned gnome version), or (god forbid) windowmaker.
gnome and kde are both bloatware in my book. and, comparitively ugly and slow.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
I get sick of seein all you people say kde is "innovative". Come to think of it... IT'S NOT. KDE is nothin more than a ripoff of a win95 gui. if you want something innovative, try enlightenment or blackbox. if you want somethin that looks like windows, use gnome or kde. lets remember that there are a hell of a lot more than 2 window managers out there. the two most popular ones aren't necessarily the best ones. maybe some of you should head over to freshmeat.net and search for window managers. i don't know about you, but i really wouldn't be caught dead using a beefed up, ripoff of a microsoft gui.
Tres|Status
stephen
Just in case anyone's desperately searching for the newest kde rpms for Mandrake, I found them this afternoon at ftp://ftp.twoguys.org/mandrake/current/i586/Mandra ke/RPMS
I think those are pretty new. Also in the future rpmfind.net has bleeding edge mandrake rpms updated constantly. I find it interesting that the Mandrake guys jump on new software and package it for Mandrake so fast.
I ran KDE for 2 years and, while I really liked the polished stability of it, there was one thing I hated a lot (see below). Well, my girlfriend loves KDE so I figgered I'd check out KDE2 for her and install it if it was cool.
:)
.
Well, it is. It's very foofy by my standards but it's extremely stable and I really dig the new widget set. Konqueror seems to have progressed nicely as well. I use it quite a bit. People bark about lack of javascript support, well, netscape doesn't always do a good job of it either my friends. I'm suitably impressed with Konqueror and I think it has much more promise than either Netscape or Mozilla as my browser of choice. Good job KDE - you really are showing the planet what non-corporate free software can do (no offense GNOME).
That said - I still have the same complaint about KDE that I've always had. There's no way to easily script what's on (and not on) the damn K menu. I hate that - theres no way I've been able to find to strip everything off the K menu and put only the apps I want there. Is there ? Anybody ?
That's why I switched to Blackbox - because it rocks
Good job KDE - I may use Blackbox but I use Konqueror all the time (and Kpackage quite often too!) Haven't tried any of KOffice yet . .
JB
The heat from below can burn your eyes out
i have been using kde 1.0 for a couple of years and after i reinstalled i used gnome. After that reinstall, I tried KDE 2.0. First I tried their kword program. I relized that it has no support for .doc files. Then I realized that the sound driver doesn't work in KDE 2.0. THIS WAS SO DISTRACTING. CANT IT USE ESD??? Then I relized that KDE can't print stuff. It just sends ascii out of my printer. And it keeps a print task forever. It took me a long time to figure out that I have to end the task from the _KDE_ Print Task program *UGG*. I also saw that konqueror crashes about every 30 seconds in its browser mode. Also, in KDE 2.0, i didn't know how to install themes becuase it didn't have a theme manager. And once when i started this panel applet, instead of going on the panel, it hovered around my desktop and i couldn't remove it. KDE 2.0 was also generally slower that 1.0. KDE 2.0 needs some improvements.
Visit my website xpenguin.com -- A linux penguin website
They used to have some sort of globalish make file or script that would build all of it, one "component" at a time. Now you have to do each one at a time by hand or make your own script. Can anybody comment on this?
Sneakemail is to spam filters what an ounce of prevention is to a pound of cure.
These are 2.0 packages. It seems the naming convention for RPM packages has you a little confused:
--..rpm
Eg,
'
kdebase-2.0-1mdk.i586.rpm
which you linked to, is actually the first *package* of 2.0
I am a devoted KDE1.0 user. Primarily because it is stable, solid, and dependable. It is not feature rich ... but it has enough functionality for me. I went for the first release of KDE2 and was met with a huge amount of disappointment and problems that plagued this buggy release. I understand that the ticking-box method (end-user testing ... kaboom!!!) is a necessary component for the release of complex software...but I was looking to the KDE guys to "up the bar" with some real software engineering. Hold on to your code and THOROUGHLY test before you release it guys!!! As GI Joe might say if he were a programmer ... "Coding is only half the battle." (actually testing is like 85 percent). Look to industries like medical informatics to benchmark. Coders in this field have NO ROOM for crappy software since people's lives hang in the balance over their code. One last plug for KDE ... I am taking a software engineering course in college right now. Anyway ... I teamed up with a partner to complete the assignments. We decided to implement GUIs for our code. I chose KDE ... he chose Gnome. My interface is done and tested. He is still futzing with Gnome docs and test code. All hail kdevelop. I intend to do some coding using Gnome ... but this is only for the benefit of perspective and balance. Still the KDE software coding facilities let me get to coding with lightning efficiency. Something that I will not soon forget. All this said ... I think I will wait another 6 months before giving KDE2 another go (don't let me down again KDE).
Same here, and now I'm using Konqueror as my primary web browser. Why? I originally started using Linux because it crashes less than Windows. Konqueror still crashes sometimes, about as much as IE 5 or Netscape 4.x do. But, when Konqueror dies it only kills that individual window, not all windows, mail, etc, like Netscape, and it can't take the whole OS down, like IE can. I haven't really looked at the code but it seems to be running an independent process for each window, which would be bad except I have a lot of ram (176 MB) and it's worth it to not have to restart everything on my computer just because of some bad Javascript.
I never said Gnome couldn't, I said KDE is not un-innovative if the default look is Windows-ish.
Gnome is internally more like Windows than KDE is, that was my point, not that it looks like Windows.
Try the mozilla nightly builds (Mozilla). They are fast, and use less memory than NS 6.
He who knows not, and knows he knows not is a wise man
But, in all fairness, the mozilla project isn't just a browser project either, so a comparison wouldn't work too well. Mozilla runs on Win32 and MacOS and possibly others (BeOS, OS/2?). And includes a mailer/news reader, and other features. A better comparison I think, would be nautilus.
He who knows not, and knows he knows not is a wise man
I grabbed KDE2 a couple of weeks ago, and started building it on my PPro 200 system. True to everything I heard, it took a good 10 hours over 5 days to get it installed, but I have to say that I am impressed. It is not quite as snappy as Helix Gnome, but it is acceptable on my PPro.
Something that doesn't seem to be mentioned much is the MUCH improved font support. KDE2 allows font selection not only by specific size, but by small / medium / large. This allows those of us with reasonably modern graphic cards to run web browsers. Konqueror handles fonts WAY better than Netscape (use www.altavista.com for a comparison). Of course, this would not be an issue if MS Truetype fonts were sized correctly (Hint: 6 point fonts are very difficult to read on an average monitor).
That being said, it seems that th 2.0 release of konqueror is prone to crashing, though I notice it mainly on exit. It also has some minor issues with rendering, but overall is quite impressive.
The "previous URL" bug is a problem between Konqueror and HTTP/1.0-compliant proxies such as Junkbuster. I was having the same problem at first, but disabling Konqueror's use of Junkbuster fixed it. Doesn't bother me much, as I only lose the ad blocking.
I know this is offtopic but, I can't get sound in Linux. I have a Creative Labs Awe64(PNP I believe) and I tried multiple IRQs but I just can't get it working. I'm a Linux Newbie.
So Konq apparently supports SSL and Java. I'm desperate to get rid of Netscape 4.7x, but I need to be able to access Datek Online, preferrably with the Streamer (which lately seems to lock up Netscape) and the Island Book Viewer (which usually works OK). Has anyone tried it with Datek?
:-)
I've tried it with the Opera beta and Mozilla (M16 I think) with no success. Of course the latest Mozilla might work...
I just want to know before I tie up my phone line (@$#%$# 56K modem) for hours getting it.
Hopefully this release is more solid than 2.0, which was quite unstable under FreeBSD, not to mention that all the apps still spewed tons to debug messages to stdout, which isn't something one would expect from production quality software.
<br><br>
Otherwise, KDE2 is excellent.
Hi there, I've been using kde2 since the 1.99 betas. Konqueror is a hell of a good browser, I never really use netscape anymore except for www.phong.com as it uses javascripts that konqui doesn't work with (I wonder if it works now). I think kde is a splendidly well written piece of code and I'm only sorry that getting to the kde mailing lists is so difficult! As a side note I would like to see a KIO repository somewhere on the web so that when there's a new one out I can simply compile it and copy it to the appropriate folder without getting in trouble with cvs (I'm lazy) Finally the pdf KIO needs improvement!
Mi domando chi à il mandante di tutte le cazzate che faccio - Altan
Does KDE run well on the BSDs?
EverCode
--------------------
There has been several statements over the last months (including one by Dr Torvalds) that Gnome is more common in the US than KDE and that KDE is more of a European affair.
Has there ever been a serious investigation into these claims? If so, when and where?
Would it be possible to have a poll here at Slashdot?
===Suggestion for Slashdot poll=====
This combo describes me best:
*I live in the US and run Gnome
*I live in the US and run KDE
*I live in Europe and run Gnome
*I live in Europe and run KDE
*I live elsewhere and run Gnome
*I live elsewhere and run KDE
*I dont run either Gnome or KDE
====end of poll=================
Perhaps someone wish to split Gnome and KDE even further, using Helix or not, KDE1.2 or KDE2, etc. But that's perhaps not really necessary to get the picture.
When I first got KDE 2.0-final installed, I posted a semi-nasty comment about Konqueror, because my impression was that it sucked.
However, during a recent reinstall, I was having trouble getting Netscape up and running, so for a couple of days I used Konqueror as my sole web browser. This was the version from KDE-2.0-9 or whatever came before 2.0.1. Man, I was impressed. Not perfect, but it was very fast, and ate MUCH less memory than Netscape. Didn't segfault on me or crash at all, which was a huge improvement over the first version I tried.
Still had some difficulty with plugins, https and the like, but I'm now thinking that this is a viable browser. I can't believe how quickly this thing got stable.
Nice work, Konqueror folks. And I apologize for my previous bitching.
Monkeytreats
My main concern is that KDE will do with KDE2 what they did to some extent with KDE1--they will abandon development on the stable KDE2 release in order to get on the the KDE3 bandwagon.
- Sam
The secret to enjoying Slashdot is to realize that it should not be taken too seriously.
If apps crash on startup, this suggests an installation problem.
Try it on a fresh account and see if it still happens.
-- Thrakkerzog
Strange. I find the interface and functionality of Konqueror fairly intuitive and similar to that of Netscape and IE. It's simple, fast and displays webpages just as good as IE if you have installed a good font-set on your X-server. The cookie-options are very cool, although I use Junkbuster as my main proxy against ads. Maybe you should try it yourself before you restate what others have said about it? ;-)
- Steeltoe
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
KDE2 is such an improvement, especially for Solaris 8. I am kind of disappointed that Sun went exclusively with GNOME. I use KDE at home, and GNOME at work, and both boxes completely eclipse my Windoze box (that I am forced to have because of M$'s monopoly). I think with window managers such as GNOME and KDE that Microsoft will be forced to provide quality software or else. I would love to see AOL with a Linux port, so the non-techies can have an alternative to M$ windoze!! Most of my friends are tired of the windows crashes and are looking forward to an alternative to Crash-->Reboot-->CRASH-->REBOOT.
I want my rights back. I was actually using them when our government stole them after 9/11.
With Konqueror 2.0.0, I have not been able to connect to my Internet banking site due to both the inability to do SSL through a proxy server and the fact that basically no Javascript works (On pretty much any site, even super-simple Hello World applets)
Also, can it finally do - So far, when I hit a site with links that use graphics instead of text, the graphics don't show if the graphics are .png format.
Konqueror 2.0.0 sure looks good, I hope that 2.0.1 take care of those problems. If not, I'll just have to wait until it gets there. Till then, Netscape 6 is good enough.
KDE is considerably more than a "rip off" of the "Microsoft UI". It is a modern application development framework, and yes, it is an interesting one. Similarites to Windows are superficial. The KDE and Qt APIs are most certainly not in any way "borrowed" from Windows.
Are there any diffs against the 2.0 source? RB
i always thought KDE was "a powerful Open Source graphical desktop environment for Unix workstations"
sounds like a window manager to me. just because they added a bunch of libraries and programing tools for developers doesn't make it anything else. It's a WM with a shit ton of accessories...something that i myself (and most users for that matter) don't really need. If i wanted a pretty GUI where i didn't have to think about the internals, i would have stuck to windows or MacOS.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
It takes 18 seconds to start up if you are not running kde. This is on a 233 with 128Meg of RAM.
I really like using it as a file manager, as the icons are hot. It is a true alternative to windows explorer, and is probably as good at rendering pages as mozilla or netscape.
It lacks some plugins, and visiting cnet tv was diffucult if not impossible. Netscape 4.7 on Linux works best so far at that site (real video). I'll have to try the newest update. I'm sure there will be more as well.
I have had problems with fonts, but that may be X or my cahracterset or something.
Pages seem to render fairly fast even with a 56k modem.
Still pretty kewl though.
I don't want a lot, I just want it all!
Flame away, I have a hose!
Only 'flamers' flame!
If it's slower than KDE 1.x isn't too much of a concern, to me, at any rate, but is it faster than Gnome + Enlightenment? I run a 300Mhz laptop with 128MB RAM, and I run Gnome + Enlightenment (I like Aqua). But at 64 MB I only ever used KDE because GNOME was such a pig. At 128MB, it's 6 to one 1/2 dozen to the other, and I still really do like KDE. I haven't bothered to download the new version, as long as it's faster than GNOME, I'd get it.
I like music
I must say KDE2 is impressive in what it has been able to accomplish and the features it has in it. Konqueror is amazing.
But please, please, please, work on stability! Many apps crash once upon startup and then work fine when tried again, others never start (killustrator)
The functionality that it has gotten is great, but not great when applications crash all the time. I can get Windows to do that all day.
The best thing KDE could do for the free unix desktop is to institute a full feature freeze and go into full time debugging mode. If KDE were as stable as FreeBSD and Linux it would really take off. As it is now I have to try to explain to everybody that it's not the OS that is unstable, it's the windowing evironment. "the what???" They have been cultured to equate the OS with the gui.
But as free unix users we have become acustomed to a much higher level of stability. We should expect the same from our desktop environment. So once again please institute a feature freeze to make kde as solid as it should be.
Tim
I don't know wnat it want to conquest but users have stated that the stuff is good but interface is bad. Specially in cases when you have to deal with multilanguage. It looks more stable for some troublmaking sites but in general people prefer the Netscape/Mozilla stuff. It seems that menu and button design was not made in the most optimal way. And this turns people away from it.
Meanwhile people generally agree that KDE2 is much better interface than KDE1.
Let me say that I was quite let down by Netscape Navigator 6, it stayed on my computer all of a day ... what a let down. Konqueror on the other hand is a welcomed breath of fresh air its truely a God sent. KDE programmers keep up the stunning great work.
"My linux install keeps booting with an error called login: " - unknown tech support caller
I've found myself using it as my primary web browser. I love the cookie handling and it feels quicker than Netscape 4.x and the overall app is more polished and stable than even recent Mozilla nightlies IMHO.The HTML rendering engine needs work in some places, but people should keep in mind that this is the KDE file browser. The fact that people bother to make criticisms that it doesn't handle complicated Javascript or encryption on certain sites suggests just how well it works as a web browser. And this was done with a tiny fraction of the resources of the Mozilla project! A comparison of the two projects would make an interesting case study for open source proponents.
That was as of last week. Some ugly bugs have popped up in recent CVS (at least for me), but that should be fixed soon.
My main criticism is with the separation of the KDE desktop from the browser. I used to use kfm in WindowMaker or icewm to get a lightweight but vey flexible setup. kdesktop creates massive problems for me with other window managers, even when it's started with the root window option. Hopefully that will be polished in future releases.
LOAD A FREAKIN WEB PAGE! I will admit, something might be my problem, but the documentation SUCKS for KDE 2.X. I try to get it to load slashdot and I get Konquerer cannot handle text/html check your installation. I havre looked all over the place trying to find a detailed way on getting this to work and I have not had any success. I am running Red Hat 6.2. I amslo want to comment that KDE has too freaking many packages. Can't some of these things be integrated into one package? Can the KDE folks do something like Helixcode has done with GNOME? I might have to go buy Mandrake just so I can try a proper KDE setup.
Gorkman
I just wanted to add this.
And you can easily compile KDE with debugging output switched off. I guess you either have self-compiled packages or the packager was not too well informed.
Moritz
(KDE1 Beta2) and compile CVS about once a week.
I always wondered how to get xmms on top. Thank you!! You never learn every feature in KDE2!
Moritz
Just add a "Schnell-Anzeiger" (quick access?) to the panel instead of a K Menue and fill it with the dotdesktop files you need. Voila.
/opt/kde/share/applnk/Multimedia
You can even point the directory access at a submenue of the K-Start menues, e.g.
Moritz
Konquerer kicks a$#. I think the whole desktop environment went from immature but kinda useful (KDE 1.1.2) to highly mature, useful, configurable, fun to use and all around more productive KDE2. If their development keeps up like this (given the KDE League etc.) I'd be surprised if Windows lasts two more years as leader in the user desktop market. Anyone care to place a theory?
"It's here, but no one wants it." - The Sugar Speaker
You think your situation is bad? think again. I am running KDE2.0 on a Pentium 133 :(. I have to say that is it slower than Windows :(
Has anyone checked out if this release has the fix for Kmail on NFS?
When the KDE team added V2 RPMs for Redhat-6.x I decided to deploy KDE-2 along with Helix-Gnome for a nearly 200 host desktop rollout. My feeling is that as head SA it's really not my decision to tell people what desktop to use, it's up to them to tell me what desktop they need to be productive; and anyway if I can offer both Helix and KDE-2, well then let the users decide. I really wasn't planning on this since I didn't expect the KDE team to support RH-6.x given how much trouble I had attempting to compile the source tarballs when they announced the first release; I figured it was brokenness in the egcs-2.91 g++ compiler and just gave up.
Boy, am I glad they decided to support RH-6.2, I've been fiddling with it and like the desktop a whole bunch. My users are happy since many of them come from Europe and prefer KDE. The others from America most to prefer Gnome -- now both need not feel slighted.
The only thing I seriously dislike about KDE is the lack of Scheme/Guile bindings to the toolkit... sorry, but I just love Gnome because of that!
Cheers,
--Maynard
It took me a good 5 evenings to compile the initial KDE 2.0 release on my trusty old P233 with 64 megs of RAM, but it was well worth the effort. It runs acceptably well on this old boxen. The latest HelixGNOME, however, runs quite slowly (not flaming GNOMErs, if you got more hardware oomph, more power to you; I don't :-). Even though I had gotten random app crashes here and there, nothing seriously bad ever happened. I am looking forward to updating to 2.0.1 to fix these minor things; hopefully konqueror will support https by now so I can bank online too. KDE is really starting to show that it can work as an everyday system for everyday people.
---
Santa Claus: "Ho ho ho!"
NO CARRIER
Welp, I gave 2.0.1 a try after 2.0 refused to work on this machine at all (crappy old Dell Optiplex GM+ 133, 64MB RAM that I get to use at work...), and am quite pleased to say that 2.0.1 is working pretty flawlessly. Konqueror is working just fine too (using it right now, actually). I was more than impressed with KDE2 back when I tried out the betas, and even moreso now. Definately one of the best window managers around. Now comes time to fiddle around with KOffice.
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"Cut word lines. Cut music lines. Smash the control images. Smash the control machine." - William S. Burroughs