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Netscape Users Rejoice
Well, SatireWire has a new story about "the last 14 remaining Netscape users" rejoicing over Netscape. It's pretty biting, but funny as hell.
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4.75 could kick 6.0's ass any day
ok, so you kind of suck, but i guess at least you aren't prank calling his gf anymore...
Okay, I'm tired of everyone bashing Netscape. They HAD to release something, and when it comes right down to it, Netscape 6.0 is pretty good. But hey, I've got news for you: Mozilla kicks ass!
Seriously, I'm using it all the time now. It's VERY fast, VERY stable, doesn't have much extra crap, is relatively small to download, and has GREAT standards compliance.
Any of the 12 remaining Netscape users out there really ought ot check out the latest daily builds. When Mozilla releases next it'll be browser nirvana for Unix users everywhere.
As for the statistics, about 2 of my friends use IE. Most still use NS 4.x just becuase it's what they're used to. Of coures all of my *nix friends and co-workers use NS (or mozilla) because it's their only choice.
Once again, mozilla is awesome now. The speed improvements are vast, getting a good theme that doesn't do too much is also key. (native.windows is the least distracting/fastest for me. I know it looks like IE, but who cares?)
I've got good encryption, excellent rendering, great speed, java, flash, and great XML features. Not to mention Mozilla runs on (or will be released soon) every OS/architecture I can throw at it.
I'd like to see Microsoft IE do that.
On win2k I have had the same browser instance up for weeks. Never had IE 5.5 crash once on me.
I have tried mozilla many many many times. The last time I got ahold of what I thought was a very high quality mozilla build. Did hotmail, did SSL, did java, everything looks great. So I order a plane ticket online at expedia - It crashed as soon as I hit the 'Buy this ticket' button. No more chances for mozilla/netscape.
-josh
Which brings me to my point: What the hell?!? These two so called WC3 complaint browsers won't display code created in a WC3 compliant editor the same way!
The HTML+CSS1 standards never intended to provide a pixel-perfect presentation layer. If you want that use Postscript, PDF, or XML+XSL+FO.
What use are these bloody standards?
So that user agents (which can include non-graphical browsers and search engines) can interpret pages and render them appropriately. Despite what you seem to think, this doesn't imply that the same page should render in the same way for different people. Even the CSS specification refers to CSS styles as suggestions.
Strange,
I'm using Galeon 0.8.1, and it runs java applets, uses SSL, and has bookmarks; in fact, if I thumb-click (equivalent to middle-click), it brings up a bookmark context menu - there's even a bookmark editor in the menubar.
Go spread your FUD elsewhere.
First posting isn't trolling. It's...first posting.
I realised that when I started recommending opera (www.opera.com) to people as an alternative to IE. As long as you don't mind a few minor things not working (odd image loading, java not implemented right &c &c), it's all gravy.
io hymen hymnaee io
io hymen hymnaee
Not to be an apologist for a crappy web browser or anything, but the internet is a pretty honkin' big thing to write a single application for. Yeah, yeah, N6 is a suite, but is it a suite in the same way that MS Office or KOffice etc. is a suite? Not really. We expect a browser to be able to handle all sorts of web page types and scripting and embedded applets, etc., whereas for a traditional office suite we allow for different applications for different office file types...
Problem is, you can set your Mime-types or registry (or whatever) depending on what sort of office application you want to have deal with a given file type, but the nature of a web page is that all sorts of stuff can be embedded within, and one application has to be the conduit of all these things.
Basically, my question is this: Shouldn't we be giving N6 a little latitude for trying to accomplish the near impossible? Yeah, 2 years is a long time to wait, but standards were (and are still) constantly being updated. It'd a tough thing to keep up with, no?
In short: This is a lot of tough talk coming from a community that's produced 37,000 different text editors. Of course, I can't even do THAT much, so maybe I should keep quiet...
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
No, this is not a lie. Okay, so I have been using nightly builds of Mozilla and switched to N6 when it was released. I forced myself to use it. Turn off all the AIM/ads/shopping. No big deal (why do people freak out about these things? - they are optional, you know and my mother-in-law would probably find them useful). Okay. Changed security so I use the great control over cookies that I've become used to in MozNightly.
At first, yes, there were a few crashes. Yes, it was slower in Linux than Windows 98 and Windows 2000 (of course, 4.x was like that as well). Yes, it loaded slower than IE. Then again, N6 doesn't have the advantage of being preloaded with the OS.
Weeks later and I'm used to it. The quirks, those I can put up with. I mean, shit, if you use open source software on a regular basis - especially the 99% of OSS that is labeled pre-release/alpha or even 'production', then you know that there will be quirks. You live with them or you contribute back to the project and help them go away.
After the initial crashes, I've had: NONE. NO problems with sites that I visit. Okay, maybe a few, but they were using layers in a way that was only intended by MS.
Bottom line: shut the hell up. Go use IE, Konqie, MozNightly, Mozilla-based browsers, old NS, Lynx, wget, etc. For now, I'm sticking with N6. It works fine with me and is actually fast on my machine after the initial load. I'm personally getting a little sick of the negativity. People use it for a total of 30 seconds (okay, not everyone, but I get the feeling that most installed it, looked at it then deleted or uninstalled it) and pass judgement on it. I have reason to believe that most of these people probably use IE themselves.
Bah - who cares. I use what I want and you use what you want. Go away.
The problem is ENTIRELY XUL. Have you tried Galeon (GTK interface on Gecko engine)? It runs like a dream. Actually, Mozilla can use any widget set (chosen at compile time) to draw the rendered output. You have your choice between Motif, GTK and I forget the rest. GTK is actually a good choice, because Imlib then handles all the nasty details of making sure PNG files get displayed properly, etc. etc. And AFAIK, GTK is very fast (provided it isn't pixmapping any widgets).
Black holes are where the Matrix raised SIGFPE
What "non-browser" parts? Chatzilla? Worked on by one person in his spare time. Mail-News? Needed to allow Netscape 6 to replace Netscape 4.x. Composer? Ditto.
Mozilla was designed from the ground up to be cross-platform and non-coupled. Without XPFE, you wouldn't be able to create cross-platform applications/interfaces in pure XBL, but that functionality is used in Netscape 6 itself.
Why does everyone here need to make the mistake that if someone has implemented X using the Mozilla platform, you assume that it is built into the main distribution of Mozilla and it took time away from a Netscape Engineer's schedule?
Many institutions, such as my University, support (or standardize on) Netscape officially. I don't want to see Netscape go away, and I don't think it will. My web server logs still show Netscape at 30-40%...
I concur. For small LAN's where shelling out a lot of time or $$ for standardized webserver+email client setups (e.g. MS Outlook + MS IE) is pointless, Netscape still provides a rather simple option. Indeed, most department-level LAN's at my school use Netscape on their (NT) workstations, primarily because Netscape profiles can be stored at a central location, greatly reducing the size of NT roaming profiles to be copied to and fro (while IE+Outlook will store dozens of MB's of webcache and mail in the actual profile).
Alright, who the hell is viewing the stile project from a Sun system and for that matter who is using IRIX to get their pr0n?
Who ever it is I know they are reading slashdot. Fess up.
The whole point of Slashdot is that it's a community, and sometimes that community finds something interesting to talk to that doesn't quite fit under the topic of the story. But when we can't start up such a discussion, thanks to "Offtopic" moderations, we resort to stupid jokes.
And now, so this post doesn't get sent down to -1, Offtopic, here's a stupid joke:
(apologies to Monty Python)
Every vote is sacred
Every vote is great
If a vote is wasted
Gore gets quite irate
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Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
With such a small number, it is important that the will of the people is respected. We will therefore demand a manual recount, starting with netscape strongholds: netscape.com, mozilla.org, and aol.com.
We'll take every legal step to make sure that every browser is counted. Even in those cases where the people clicked on the "download netscape 6" button, but due to a faulty mechanism, didn't press their mouse button down far enough, thus producing a soft "cluck" instead of a firm "click". We will have all mice inspected for "clucks", and we'll make sure these count as well! It's the intention that counts!! Long live democracy!
Woo Hoo! Still hanging on...
Information wants to be free -- but informants want to be paid.
I compile KDE from CVS and Konqueror is getting very stable and nice. Every day improvements are made and I think that soon it will be just as good as IE(A month ago I would have laughed if someone told me that). JavaScript seems to work *VERY* well in all my experiences and I haven't had it crash for a long time. I haven't tried Java yet because you need a Java VM installed, so I can't comment on that, but I'm sure that it is comming along nicely also.
For all of you that think KDE is unstable, which it was a bit for 2.0, wait for 2.1. Since the release of 2.0, every bug that I know of has been fixed and many new features have been added.
Matt Newell
Proper HTML doesn't help when it comes to nutscrape. Validate Gyrate and then try to open it with netscape.
Watching Cowboy Bebop in my jammies, eating a bowl of Shreddies.
Netscape cut off it's own airsupply as much as Microsoft ever could by blowing their competitive advantage with the horrid pile of nonstandard buggy crap known as Communicator 4.x.
4 years until the next major upgrade didn't really help either. Considering, it's actually quite amazing that they still have 20% of the end user market.
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Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
/me claps slowly and deliberately
Yes, me and one of the guys that worked on a java IDE were testing java applets on various browsers. IE locked up the NT 4.0 machine everytime when using certian applets.
hmmm... good point. Still, if you're only developing for one browser with more than a quarter of the market share, you're missing something important.
WARNING: there is a trojan on your
I've seen/done very complex enterprise applications with Javascript/VBscript and ActiveX objects. Or "non-developed" applications with very complex string pattern matching for automatic text formatting using _only_ javascript regular expressions. And they only work with IE.
DISCLAIMER: I am a C++ developer, not a web developer but sometime I have fun with "web no-developing".
--ricardo
sgis ddo ekil t'nod i
I don't care much about karma, but i do want to promote the link in my sig, so call it karma whoring if you will, but apparantly -somebody- must have found my post funny. They get their laughs, my project gets attention.
I certainly would prefer a Slashdot moderation group with a better sense of humor, but in the meantime, i'm not going to fight the system. I'm going to play the system and get attention for my crappy little software project.
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Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
I've seen all kinds of numbers, from IE having 98% of the browser share, to Netscape having 10% of the browser share. Any idea what Netscape's browser share is like, especially with the release of Netscape 6?
Windows + MacOS is installed on much less than 98% of desktop boxes, so MSIE market share theoretically can't be 98%.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
agreed. that is almost the only drawback to IE that i know of. i can't for the *life* of me figure out *why* ... but i can live with it.
:)
on the stability side, i've actually had IE5.5 die 3 times this month. that's 2 more than i usually get in a month. shock, horror
Voting Moo Anyway!
back in 1997 the Pentium II had just come out, and standard RAM size was 32MB. netscape 6 would not run on that. DOn't get me started on the first Macintoshes :-)
# debian/rules
I can back this up. MSIE 5.5 = 0 problems. Since this last summer when I upgraded to win2k and msie5.5. Ran crappy java... even flash 3... couldn't crash it. NS 4.7 crashes all the time on my Linux box (don't even ask about Mozilla or 6.0)... then I switch to Galeon, which will eventually crash. THen I switch back to NS, which won't let me start because NS has locked a PID. So, now I have a script that finds and kills all NS processes so that I can use it. Since mose users are fluent in BASH, this shouldn't be a problem.
:)
People wonder why I favor my M$ box for surfing
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
- Linux users (there's no other suitable choices for browsers w/GUI, although this may change in the next few months)
i agree with the "this may change"; several new alternatives have popped up recently that in the near fututre might become really good. The best has to be BrowseX (www.browsex.com); it's written entirely in tcl, very light-weight, and supports most commonly used internet standards (no CSS, no Java, but animated GIFs and they don't take a huge chunk of load, images, tables are good) the only problems with it at this time are: you can't compile it (it's under the Artistic license, but the build process is too convoluted; a binary is available for Linux/x86 and Windows), and it can't load pages very dynamically. There are occaisional crashes too, but no more than in Mozilla, I'm sure (it freezes instead of crashing). But I think it's much farther ahead than other browsers like Opera and skipstone.
# debian/rules
Most people have machines that come pre-installed with Internet Explorer. Most Linux machines come pre-installed with Netscape, but for how long?
Mozilla will have a release version soon and I expect that will more likely be the default browser of the next generation on Linux distributions. Many are using Konqueror for all their browsing needs.
There will soon be no reason to use Netscape.
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enterfornone - logging in for a change
No it doesn't, at least not in the NCSA X Mosaic 2.7b5 that I have open at the moment. Of course, it's hardly Mosaic's fault since Slashdot specifies the stunningly readable black text on a black background in its <body> tag while Mosaic predates the table bgcolor that Slashdot uses to make things readable for newer browsers.
SSL (the Netscape PSM): http://docs.iplanet.com/docs/manuals/psm/psm-mozil la/index.html
e =application/x-java-vm
Java (Netscape 6 Java plugin) http://home.netscape.com/plugins/jvm.html?mimetyp
Have fun!
-Do Beowolf-clusters count electronic sheep?
Kinda netscape related. I was searching around www.abandonkeep.com and found netscape version 0.9.. It doesn't load very many pages, but it was weird remembering what graphical webbing used to be like.
Please don't forget how hard is to convince the average guy or gal to take the time and effort to download a 30Meg file, and install it, when the current browser s/he has works well enough.
Netscape was steam rolled because it didn't have a critical advantage a certain operating system company had. Even battered, bruised, business model in shatters, and under new management, netscape is still in there scraping. I say, more power to them, because modzilla.org (with much help from Netscape) _is_ now winning the battle the best browser.
(posted using mozilla M18)
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Isn't refering to it as "Microsoft Exploder" flamebait?
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
- Home users
- Macintosh users in all areas (it's simply the better browser of the two, and has been bundled ever since Microsoft sunk millions into Apple)
Where Netscape has won:
- College campuses (where most network kit distributions come with instructions for Netscape, not Explorer). Also, most college labs have Netscape as their primary browser
- Linux users (there's no other suitable choices for browsers w/GUI, although this may change in the next few months)
- Developers who still must test their sites with both browsers
Unfortunately for Netscape/Mozilla fans, there's a far greater number of home users than students/Linux users. And most developers I've worked with (including the last site I interned at) were beginning to focus much more on IE.
By the way, the last stats at refer-it.com (before I left my internship):
- Close to 80% IE
- About 10% Netscape
- Remaining 10% Web TV, Opera, Lynx, etc.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Actually, it's rather likely that Time will be the only one telling whether or not AOL is scared :)
The site you are refering to is Deja Vu (www.dejavu.org)
Then, i had to be on two dates at the same time, and as i was rushing between them, i got stuck in an elevator with a pregnant woman. It was zany.
By the way, are you the same anonymous coward from the other two posts?
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Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
While Navigator 4.7x may not be the fanciest browser out there; I wouldn't exactly call it crap.
I use Netscape 4.75 all day, every day on Linux and NT. It rarely crashes on me, and it displays most pages the same as IE.
There is just something about IE that rubs me the wrong way. I only use it when I have to (for testing purposes).
I like Mozilla a lot, and in the last few months it has seen a great deal of improvement. Just the fact that it runs on so many platforms makes it superior. IE will never run on Linux (BSD, beos, etc), so it will ultimately lose out to Mozilla. Especially since these platforms are invading the desktop market.
domc
So by the way the comments are going here, I would assume that I am the one person who uses HotJava on a Sun box to surf the web?
Haahahaaa... You just made my day!
I have to say that I recently downloaded version 3.0 and it kicks ass all over version 1.02.....
Egad, I hope you're joking... Anytime I've touched HJ under Solaris (2.6, 2.7 under CDE) I've felt somehow sullied by the experience. No wonder why Sun bundles Netscape CDs with Solaris.. In fact, at one point, you couldn't access Sunsolve with HotJava (or was it java.sun.com?) which I felt approached the acme of Sun irony...
Your Working Boy,
GTK is very fast. However I had to change $HOME to make Netscape 6 ignore my GTK theme that was absolutely useless for Netscape (it has XUL-defined interface that overrides everything) but for some reason still was read by it. Another thing that affects the performance is memory -- since Windoze-using people that also have Linux box usually have at least twice more RAM in Windows box, Netscape 6 with its large memory footprint will be slower on their Linux box.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
I wasn't aware of the issue back in 1997 - but I quite agree with you; that was no better. However, today it is Microsoft's market share which is high enough to endanger the w3c standard, and so it is them I am complaining about.
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
That's like me complaining that Netscape 3 has some problem, going to another browser, and complaining the browser still has the problem ever since I left.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
I'm so confused...
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
Still, never unerestimate the power of PHB. Last week the IT boys sent me a nice little "system upgrade" for MSIE 5.01. The stupid thing was manditory and took 20 minutes to run. I started to worry when I saw a message, "migrating bookmarks." I don't think it was nice enought to move my address book which was useless because nothing but the browser can use the proxy (no command line stuff works, nor netscpes little mail client). In anycase, Netscape vanished. Yes, you too can be standardized. Nope, I'm not going to bother reloading Netscape. Deleting it was a big enough hint.
I hate IE! It will not remember the things I tell it to do, like not display pictures or execute scripts. I suppose it will do any old active X thingy, super secure! Everytime I use it, I'm forced to endure whatever big ugly blinking banner add marketoids decide it would be good to waste bandwith on. You can't imagine how ugly our own internal page is. It feels so nice to come home and browse without it.
I've also learned to hate Outlook. It took some time, because I really wanted to see something cool in it. The anoyances, typical of MS interface design, far outweigh any benifits that mess has to offer. Security and privacy? Ha!
Thank God Windows is dying the miserable death it deserves.
Anyone notice how Netscape 0.9 didn't even bother to display an error message when it couldn't load a site?
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Other than some trivial issues with XML and custom DTDs, yes, I believe so.
Mostly. Check the changelog for details.
Then the sites aren't to spec.
If I want to read a joke, I'll read the posts and look for one rated "Funny," thankyouverymuch.
Speaking of which, when will I be able view posts by how they were moderated? Two things I often want to be able to do are "Show me all the posts moderated as funny." And, "Show me all the posts that have been moderated up, because the default moderation level 2 post is often abused."
Need a website host? Try out http://WebQualityHost.net
Konquerer, seems to work just fine, but I'm not sure how to make it stop displaying those nice little java banner adds that so many people demand. My version of KDE is older, so things might be better.
There are at least two text based browsers, but they are kind of a pain with so many websites using pictures as part of their navigation, blah. You can use Lynx, and I'm told Emacs.
It has been said that no editor is complete until it can browse the web. I say now browser is complete until it can be used as a text editor! Try Abi Word, who's native format is SGML. Ahhh!
My point was that if Netscape had been "just a browser", then there WOULDN"T be
any point in users switching from Internet Explorer to Netscape (at least in their minds).
However, with this development platform flexability, soon Netscape will be MORE then just
a browser to the end user, it will be something that needs to be installed for OTHER
cool applications to run as well (Think Forumzilla, except something that all users consider cool. Maybe a XUL front end to a MUD or something like that). Add that to the most standards compliant browser, and users will WANT to switch. At work, lots of "Internal web applications" can be coded in XUL instead, and the business will want to switch back to Netscape. If you compete against Microsoft in the EXACT SAME NICHE (Windows only browser only), you will LOSE (Thanks to user apathy). You need to take a larger approach.
And this is where "Shoved out the door two months early" comes in to play. I can pretty much assure you that by the time Mozilla 1.0 comes out (in about 6 months or less), Mozilla *will* be fun for the user to use. It will be perfect for usage as "just a browser". It will never satisfy users that want Netscape to be Lynx, and those users should just go use Lynx.
And you won't be walking down the street handing out CD's that say "Cross-Platform XUL application", they'll say "ReallyCoolDistributedNetworkGame 1.0 (Needs Netscape 6.x to run)", just like web page users don't say "Hey, cool, look at that use of the DOM and Dynamic HTML", they say "Hey, cool! Look at the hopping bunny!". Making something a XUL, XML and XSL based platform allows developers to DO what the user wants. And what the user wants will change and GROW in the future. And having a better flexable architecture will allow Netscape to fill those needs easily while Microsoft will struggle.
I'll put my money into the pot as well. Two months with no crashes (I'm even thinking of having a daily picture taken of my Win2K box system uptime and putting it on my site). :)
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Even lamer are the ones that use Front Page.
chris@xanadu:~$ whatis /.
/.: nothing appropriate.
Eh, fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.
The entire concept of negative moderation sucks.
this is a sig.
"...greatly reducing the size of NT roaming profiles to be copied to and fro (while IE+Outlook will store dozens of MB's of webcache and mail in the actual profile..."
The web chache shouldn't be be copied around. The NT server we have at work took forever to login/logout because of this excess. It can be fixed using the policy editor on the NT server.
in your NTconfig.pol:
under "Windows NT Users Profiles",
check "exclude dirs in roaming profile"
fill in the stuff you don't what to be copied in the text box (Temporary Internet Files;Temp for example)
Makes things run alot smoother.
Also, Netscape deleted my home directory on our NT server once. It somehow got confused that my home dir was the cache, and so deleted it. The odd this is that it didn't do that with a any normal NT workstation, but only did with a NT workstation that had AFS installed. Wierd.
Never really trusted Netscape browsers since. The way Netscape handles multiple profiles can be pretty buggy too.
It seems to be MS is planning to do to AOL what it did to Netscape.
A Penny for my thoughts? Here's my two cents. I got ripped off!
Now this is the way to get linux on every "desktop".......excuse me while I log onto my Ultra 10 and surf with HotJava so to speak....
Hey, you think your house is cool?
This article brings up NOTHING new that the impatient people haven't complained about here for a long long time. It's another "Oh, the release is LATE LATE LATE" complaint, only this time, these people are idiotic enough to make the complaint AFTER talk like this made Netscape shove Netscape 6 out the door at least 2 months too early.
:P Almost NONE of Internet Explorer is cross-platform. And those people who think that cross-platform doesn't mean anything aren't thinking too far ahead. There's going to be an explosion of embedded computing in the near future. PC's won't be going away, but they won't be the main way that web pages are accessed anymore. And it is much easier, both in time and in resources, to write a XUL based application compared to a Java based application. It is also INFINATELY easier to fix bugs in the base code of XUL, something that cannot be done with the current closed-source nature of java.
If we're just going to base everything on what was released to the market first, then ALL companies might as well just release TOTAL crap to the customer as quickly as possible. I thought that we were a more knowledgable community and we wanted better quality software. We're entering a new era of software construction, where we can write better quality and more maintainable code. But to take advantage of that, we're going to have to re-write a lot of code, code that was built in the 80's and 90's hackers ethic. RE-WRITES TAKE TIME.
There are people here who say that they wished Netscape had released a Netscape 5 with improvements in a short period of time. Well, they actually did that, only they were more honest and called it 4.5. Without a re-write, any future Netscape browser wouldn't have gotten much better than 4.x, and probably would have gotten worse. The code base was ANCIENT. It was written in another era. So 6 months after they started working on Netscape 5 (using the old code-base), they scrapped it, and started the re-write. I tried out "Mozilla Classic" (had a debian package or two), and it wasn't much better than 4.x. This decision was made in November.
The year of 1999 was basically spent in re-write and architecture land. Some components were re-written multiple times. At this time, the browser wasn't "dogfood", it wasn't really usable by anyone without a huge amount of struggle. Some people here still think Mozilla is like that. At the end of 1999, Mozilla started driving to dogfood, and by February of 2000, it was at least dogfood (I used it for my daily browsing, although some times it was very very slow). That's the point where I started seeing constant and steady improvement on each and every build. (With a few regressions on the day or two after the milestone). Then another rapid increase in quality began around the end of May. 2000. Then another burst of polishing through all of August. If Netscape had given us 2 more months like August before clamping down, I think Netscape 6 would have been significantly better. If a significant bug got fixed after August, it tended to not get into either the trunk or the branch.
around July and August is when end-user/programmers started to swarm in to Mozilla as outside contributors, as Mozilla had finally reached what JWZ had said "A user could add a patch to the browser and have a browser + his patch." It would have been very exciting if we could have had two more months like that. We'll have them again in January and February, as everyone recovers from the holidays, and the Netscape employees come back from their vacations.
Mozilla is MORE then just a browser. I'm sure there are a lot of people who kept crying out that that's ALL it should have been, but that's their typical small-minded thinking, and it's THAT fact that will eventually get Netscape on to end-user computers, even if they already have Internet Explorer on them. I don't think you can write a completely cross-platform XUL application using Internet Explorer technology.
I'm sick of the anti-mozilla bias that has been fostered on Slashdot, propagated by short-sighted, impatient and ignorant people, and i'm dismayed at CmdrTaco et al continuing this trend with stories like this, especially when they are misrepresented in the opening comments. I certainly don't know of any other full-featured commercial quality browsers that I can get the full source code to.
I completely fail to see what CmdrTaco sees as "funny as hell" about this article. Is it the "14" users statement that does it for him? Is it the constant assertion that once people switch to Internet Explorer that they'll never switch back? Is it the implication that only Netscape users would want to try the New Netscape? Or is it the comparison of Netscape with Apple as companies who didn't fill the general market niches at the given time, and therefore "deserve to die"? Here's a hint: For something to be considered good satire, it has to blast BOTH sides (if there are clear partisan sides), it has to frame it in a new, unexpected light/situation that is halfway believable(probably framing it in the structure of something else that is established), and most of the facts (or the behaviours if we're looking closely at a specific person) have to be generally undisputed. Oh, and a bit of intelligence helps. This article fills NONE of those criteria. It is *extremely* one-sided, doesn't blast Microsoft at all for the obvious defects, the situation is completely unrealistic (a person saying that if his company had released something 3 years ago, it would have had a chance, but it wasn't, so it doesn't? Yeah right!), and most of the facts are under dispute. And finally it does not sound intelligent, the tone/ideas in this article are extremely childish (*14* users? Why not just say *3*? Hell, if you're going to completely underestimate/state the Netscape base, why not say *0.0001*?) and short-sighted (Hmm, so when someone has the majority of marketshare in one area, they NEVER lose it, even when someone comes out with a better product? I think Lotus and IBM would strongly disagree with you.). At best, this is highly partisian humour, and something that only Microsoft employees/lovers would laugh at, or people who are extremely EXTREMELY bitter at Netscape.
All this article has done is repeat the mantra "Ship the browser NOW NOW NOW NOW or you'll be irrelevant!", only they've done it AFTER Netscape SHIPPED THE DAMN BROWSER (A bit too early to satisfy you whiners), which means they are flogging a dead horse. Something is biting if it is undisputably true, which this isn't. This piece isn't even relevant. And it doesn't even consider any other platform besides Windows! I can ASSURE you that there isn't a large number of people on Linux switching to Internet Explorer. CmdrTaco, have you COMPLETELY forgotten your original demographic?
Posting early doesn't just give you a chance to get moderated up, it also lets you get moderated down. Some moderators seem to mod down as "flamebait" or "troll" anything that doesn't agree with their opinions.
I just posted a comment criticizing this whole story as a waste of bandwidth, and got moderated down as a troll. So here it is again:
Doesn't the Slash lameness filter...
...eliminate stories like this? What a waste of bandwidth. If I want to read a joke, I'll read the posts and look for one rated "Funny," thankyouverymuch.
Heeeeeere moderator, come here and use up one more of your mod points. Then you'll have no more than three left to use on victims who don't have karma to burn.
Find free books.
The numbers vary. Lots.
38% of the hits to our site come from Netscape.
Many institutions, such as my University, support (or standardize on) Netscape officially. I don't want to see Netscape go away, and I don't think it will. My web server logs still show Netscape at 30-40%...
Actually, what I really mean to say is that I don't want to see Mozilla go away. Netscape corporation, to me, is just the "shopping" buttons cluttering my toolbar. Netscape can die, if it wants, but I want Mozilla running on my desktop and webpad of the future, not IE.
When Microsoft was asked for a statement, they replied that they were too busy finishing their transition to browser/world dominance to be bothered with ancient history...
---
---
Gort! Klatu Barata Nikto!
It would be interesting to know how common this is--from what I've seen in passing comments on FreeBSD-hackers, I'd guess quite common for FreeBSD users at least--and to what extent it undercounts minority OSes in these kinds of statistics.
The problem on this site is with nested tables.. I've a fairly simple interface but it spans both horizontally and vertically, so I have cut the image up and put it into a table. I've then nested another table to allow for a text and general content area of the site.
As I mentioned before, this layout works fine in both NS4x and IE5, but not in NS6.
The URL is http://www.users.uniserve.com/~speed/html/home.htm l (no space in the .html, obviously... it's just getting formatted like that due to the line length)
Of course, there could be some blatantly obvious answer that I am missing...
00.002% Amiga
00.0002% OpenVMS
Woo Hoo! Still hanging on...
Yeah, but you know you're in trouble when there are 10 times as many *Amiga* users, for Gawd's sake...
deus does not exist but if he does
We use NS4.7x as the corporate dictat. IE isn't officially supported and standard builds eliminate the icon from the desktop. In fact we have a bunch of fairly important internal apps that were built for NS and don't work right or display correctly on IE. Go figure. And oh yeah we still support an OS/2 flavor. I think the belief was that we would somehow make Netscape (the company) the next Lotus. For what it's worth we have a corporate security standard that says "don't use cookies" alongside a bunch of general corporate internal apps that require them.
Serious inquiries only, please.
exactly how many Amiga hits was that?
How we know is more important than what we know.
(n/t)
well we know this is wrong. AOL is much higher than Netscape. Microsoft claims that half the people on the net are using AOL.
How we know is more important than what we know.
That M$ have socceeded in dominating the browser market
:-)
after five years and how much $ ?
But the fact of the matter is how does it affect the bottom line
What direct profit has the M$ made from this domination?
and on a different note
I have been serfing with netscape since 0.9 I was using Mosaic
before that but has anyone else been anoyed to hell about the
way IE dumbs down your surfing experiance?
Main bitch? when you put the mouse ove ra link is says "shortcut"
the "whatever" I ain't know fuckin shortcut it shold show me the
goddamn url dammit
I feel better now
http://Lenny.com
MyopicProwls
MyopicProwls
My homepage
Uhh, that little plan would work better if you actually had a link in your .sig ......
Think outside the... Hey, where'd the friggin' box go?
Would this be that hard to implement?
Another idea - Have the rating scale go from 0->5 like it currently does but then add a new rating titled "New". After 1/2 hour any "New" ratings would get converted to 1. Then if a post isn't worthy a moderator could assign it a 1 and it would get filtered out right away.
I guess the ideas are basically the same -- but are they any good??
Willy
"I am definitely downloading this baby, and I'll use it, too, if Explorer crashes or something."
Gee, such biting sarcasm. We know MSIE never crashes!
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
"And like that
Maybe next time I'll remember to provide the right link (bet you didn't know there were four t's in statmarket.com)...
Oh, well. If it happens regularly to the editors of SlashDot, it can happen to even the best of us, right?
Well, Browser News has graphs generated by TheCounter.com indicating around 10% market share for Netscape and about 80% for IE, though my personal experience suggest that the NS share is higher reality.
Naturally browser stats differ greatly depending on the content of the site. microsoft.com probably doesn't get that many hits from lynx, but linux.com probably does.
-=Sam=-
You know they call 'em fingers but I've never seen 'em fing. Oh, there they go.
I'd also like a filter that I could set to exclude any post that uses the words "chad," "ballot," or "Florida."
Find free books.
...in Fuckedcompany? They're really struggling for material now!
According to pcdata.com, and a few other "web demographic" sites, www.stileproject.com is in the top 2000 visited sites on the net. Granted, due to the adult content of the site, it's largely viewed by home users. But, a site this does get a nice breakdown of the net as a whole. Here are the stats we see:
85.6% Internet Explorer
12.0% Netscape
01.2% "Netscape Compatible" browsers
00.2% Opera
00.07% WebTV
In my experience, largely "geeky" websites see huge amounts of netscape users. Our breakdown by OS:
93.35% Windows
03.22% Macintosh
01.80% Unknown (browser doesn't report OS)
01.38% Unix variants
00.07% WebTV
00.01% BeOS
00.004% OS/2
00.003% RISC OS
00.002% Amiga
00.0002% OpenVMS
Since it may be of interest to people here, here's the Unix breakdown:
79.18% Linux
07.28% FreeBSD
04.19% SunOS
03.85% Other Unix variants
01.94% OpenBSD
01.85% IRIX
00.61% OSF1
00.51% HP-UX
00.30% NetBSD
00.26% AIX
00.0002% BSD/OS
The Unix/Linux users seem kind of high, but it may be due to the Linux Girls Gallery getting linked everywhere.
-- Kevin
(hoping this won't be considered spam, but rather info that I keep getting asked)
I do tech support for several ISPs. I set up clients to use the browser and email program that comes with the OS. I just got grand-dad to connect with Windows 95, get the homepage, and check his email... do you really think I'm going to end that hour of hell by saying, "Now, if you don't like that browser let me show you how to download and install Netscape."??? Haha, yeah right! Thats where the numbers come from, IMHO, and not because IE is a better product. Thats a matter of opinion AFAIC. Its just whats easiest to do. NOW. If Netscape or Mozilla can make it worth an ISP's time to coax the sheep into Netscape they might have better luck with browser share. Yeah, I know the problem starts with Microsoft having IE 'built-in', but perhaps NSs (ie AOLs) marketing divisions might consider that avenue.
Clearly the funniest (and tersest and most accurate and least Katzest) link Ive read in a while. Well-submitted, young man. bvlee
All progress depends on the unreasonable man.
You're right. I didn't realize the foot icon was for humor. Boy do I feel stupid.
Find free books.
just make everything PDF
Turn off the "Use Background Color" option, then it works quite nicely.
Glückwünsche, haben Sie Slashdot ermordet, indem Sie zum korporativen Druck beugten und Subskriptionen einlei
No, +1 Insightful.
I have to say that I recently downloaded version 3.0 and it kicks ass all over version 1.02.....
Hey, you think your house is cool?
MSIE 5.5 = 0 problems.
you forget the numerous security problems..
well It used to bother me so much I still remember it :-)
I find that Comunicator 4.7x on my Mac is quite good for
my needs the stutus bar thing was just ONE of things that
bugged the shit out of me
http://Lenny.com
But it would be better for the w3c to set the standards than MS.
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
Well, "HORRIBLY" is not an acronym either and you didn't comply it's capitalized. :)
But you know that real men, just use lynx to surf the web, perhaps with -dump embedded in a few scripts, maybe perl or awk...:-)
Just get rid of those stinking pictures, you don't need them, lynx will give you all you need, under CLI....,he,he...
Aehm...you shouldn't lookup p0rn with it anyway...
Michael
Opera 4b2 or 4b3 for Linux has replaced Netscape on about half the Linux boxes at my office. The fact that it's still beta, and the progress each release makes over the prior one, makes the occasional crashing worthwhile. It's fast, feature rich, and doesn't have a Shop button or any additional apps built in. The developers actually converse with the users (on the newsgroups). The only time I load NS is when I run into the odd Opera beta bug that I can't quickly work around.
/my/ OS.
Of course, it won't be free, but it will be worth the money.
More info: www.opera.com
Mozilla is okay, but it's just unbearably slow. So is Netscape, of course. I can actually say as a Linux user that I wish I had the option of having an enterprise-quality browser built into
I feel your pain, I really do - I'm also a webpage designer.
I've given up on netscape for complex graphical designs (eye candy) - if it renders all over the place, screw it - I've spent 4 years developing web pages and it seems 2 of those were spent trying to get netscape to do what I want it to do.
There's no catching up with developments though, no way a set of standards can be truly hammered down when the technology is continuously advancing or changing directions - when todays best thing becomes yesterdays news.
The best that can be done is an orginisation like the WC3 - they don't 'invent' the code, they 'watchdog' it and try and steer it toward some form of common standard - an inenviable task.
Just when you think your getting to grips with DHTML & CGI, along comes XML - nothing wrong with that, it's progression.
This brings me back to topic - you've got to create slightly different versions of your code to 'fit' as many browsers as possible with the minumum amount of effort.
Netscape 1 pixel out on a layer ? - use some Javascript browser detection to force it into place without effecting other browsers or say 'screw it, there's only 14 people and some confused geriatric floridians using netscape anyway'
Hack it.
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
luckman
luckman
I don't involve myself with flames, much less know how to bait one.
If you configure Konqueror with OpenSSL support (happens automatically if you have it installed), it supports SSL just fine.
But this probably isn't a bug, I'm sure it's just a new feature.
There are thousands of uncounted browsers in counties all over Florida. How can we teach our children the importance of choosing a browser while we arbitrarily refuse to count some of them? Every Browser Must Be Counted!!!
- Al
Think outside the... Hey, where'd the friggin' box go?
Just for your info, The Godfather ansd Papa Shango are the same person :)
His current persona is the Goodfather, in the RTC faction, preaching that the ways of the WWF are evil and everyone is going down the moral sewer.
RTC is a bunch of jobbers, just like the /. crew :)
My brother runs a fairly high-traffic web server. Last month, out of 2.5 million hits:
Internet Exploder: 80.85%
-MSIE 5.5: 18.90%
-MSIE 5.0: 49.30%
-MSIE 4.0: 10.70%
Netscape Navigator: 16.13%
-Mozilla/6.0: 0.00% (25 hits)
-Mozilla/4.7: 7.10%
-Mozilla/4.6: 1.54%
-Mozilla/4.5: 2.32%
-Mozilla/4.0: 2.50%
Sad to see these numbers. I'm hoping that Mozilla will start to gain popularity once it is released.
domc
. . . if Netscape goes away.
Funny ha-ha. Sure. But where's the viable Linux and *NIX browser if there's no Netscape?
Don't get confused ny Mozilla. Mozilla is 46 guys paid by Sun/Netscape. Netscape and Mozilla are siamese twins.
What we have to have happen is for Netscape to get its act together.
Wow, Slashdot actually works in NCSA Mosaic! That's a way cool site.
How to Lobby Politicians http://www.zeta.org.au/~aldis/lobby.html
The problem is not entirely XUL. Yes, I can agree with alot of others its not perfect, and maybe XUL was intended to implemented to run speedily on modern machines. The issue in my opinion is Gtk. Gtk is the bottle neck in speed for the Mozilla inteface. Gtk uses gdk to draw the widgets, and is really the backbone for Gtk. Now I like Gtk alot, so I'm not going to front, but Gdk needs some inline assembly to speed it up, and some more optimizations. Assembly is going to kill Gdk as a cross platform library, but we really need to do it. I own a Mac running linuxppc and a PC, so a course like this would problaby effect alot of non-PC linux users. But I think this step needs to be taken.
Optimize Gdk/Gtk will ultimately make XUL churn.
My 2 Bits
I need to rant:
<rant>
Ok. As a web developer I want to bitch about the state of browsers.
Call me uninformed, stupid or whatever you will, but after having played with Netscape 6, IE 5.5, Opera 4 and Netscape 4.72. I can't imagine that there's anything that can be done to make my life easier as a developer.
For a long time, and I've said this on Slashdot before, my main problem with Opera 4 and Netscape 6 is that they don't freaking display layers the same and NONE of them support JavaScript the same way. Using JavaScript in all four of these browsers is pretty much a lost cause as far as I'm concerned. You may as well learn four distinct languages.
Now ok, as a Developer I do write a lot of stuff by hand. But lets face the fact, using an editor like DreamWeaver make a hell of a lot more since as you can hammer something out reasonably quickly with typically good code.
As a side note, I just got my paws on DreamWeaver 4, which claims to be WC3 compliant. So, in theory anything I write in DreamWeaver 4 should work at least as well in Opera 4 and in Netscape 6. Right? No!
Here's my several hour story about disappointment. I've been working for several monts on a site that makes creative use of layers on the opening page. (I'd show you, but it's not live yet.) This first page was originally created in DreamWeaver 3 using DreamWeaver 3 behaviors to show and hide layers as necessary. Worked great, but only in Netscape 4.7x and IE 5+. Netscape 6 and Opera 4 wouldn't display the layers when it was supposed to. This boiled down to something I never took the time to figure out in the actual JavaScript of the DreamWeaver 3 behavior.
Now the other day I got a copy of DreamWeaver 4. Macromedia claims that it's WC3 complaint. Excellent, this is the solution to my problem. I'll simply redo the page real quick in DreamWeaver 4 and it should work in all these browsers. Much to my surprise the JavaScript worked! My problem though is that the browsers seem to handle the layer and other such tags differently. In Netscape 6 the entire layer is shifted a pixel up so it doesn't align where it's supposed to. Other than that, it worked fine. In opera the link in the image map on the image in the layer wouldn't work. It wouldn't do a think. I tried setting on onClick to load the next page with JavaScript. No luck. IE and Netscape 4.72 seemed to work fine.
Which brings me to my point: What the hell?!? These two so called WC3 complaint browsers won't display code created in a WC3 compliant editor the same way! What use are these bloody standards? I understand they're complicated as hell and that I sure couldn't do the work, but it seems to me that there's truly something lacking for all of the options.
So here's my proposal: Let's get all of the major and some of the minor browsers companies together and (by some miracle) get them all to agree on standards or something. Then make THEM be the consortium that creates the standards. Then if browsers like IE want to implement other proprietary features, then that's FINE. (as long as they don't go calling them standard.)
</rant>
But it's past my bedtime so I must go sleep. Bye now.
Doug
I haven't tried Konqueror2 yet, but again, I'll have to install KDE2 (is it true?) and that would make the "browser" bigger than Netscape 6 by comparison...
I just need SSL and Java (for Sodaplay). Nothing else...
What a pain...
I keep hearing that Netscape lost the browser war. But the majority of people here where I live Still use Netscape, and think that Netscape won. But then again, I live in New York, the state that had the highest percentage for Gore, and we think he also won.
But seriously, my company, Lockheed Martin, which is fairly large and is basically dominated by Microsoft (we try to partner with them at every chance we get), but Netscape is still the officially supported browser. In fact, all our internal web pages are tested for Netscape and little testing is done for IE.
Being a Linux type of guy, I'm sticking with Netscape. I don't have the time to install Mozilla. I did a while ago, but that was when it crashed more then 4.7. I've tried a few other browsers (Konquerer and Opera) but they vary from Netscapes interface, which I've grown accustom to. Altough when Netscape changed to the new interface, it took a little to get use to it, and now that I have, I'm not inclined to change very much.
I'm not trying to say that Netscape's UI is any better than any other Browser. In fact, I'm sure most of you can bring up valid points to why it is not better. But I'm use to it, and I'm sure there are others that are too, and don't care to change. When Netscape 6 slims down to run on my P75 45Meg RAM Laptop, then I might switch to that.
Steven Rostedt
Steven Rostedt
-- Nevermind
Gee, such biting sarcasm. We know MSIE never crashes!
actually... it rarely does... on a Win2K box? over four months of solid use without a single crash. NS6 crashed twice when I was checking it out...
-rt-
-rt-
** Evil Canadians are taking over the world. Learn about the conspiracy
Both IE and Netscape come preinstalled with MacOS ... have done since at least MacOS 8.5.1. And while I use Netscape eveywhere else, on a Mac IE
wins hands down.
The real Captain Avatar is a fictional character, so I suppose he doesn't mind if I impersonate him.
--
--
Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
(end comment) */ }
(end comment) */ }
[an error occurred while processing this directive]
I'm surprised I hear no mention of the Math Markup language. I wouldn't expect my Grandma to care, but you'd think it would be a big hit in the geek community. Sure would be nice to post math equations on the web without using that damn *.pdf format.
call my post flamebait if you will, but if there's ever been a browser on the bottom of my list, it's that damn adobe acrobat reader.
Well, that page looks fine to me. Was there something that was supposed to be off? I'm using NS 4.76...
After mozilla it will be 14.
Dont get me wrong I love the rendering but the interface is wrose then 4.x and Wayyyyyyy to slow
Free Unix? Free Windows. http://www.reactos.com
This isn't what you call biting or funny...that will be left up to the Daily Show with Jon Stewart.
The surest way to make a monkey of a man is to quote him. --Robert Benchley
If you were an NCSA Mosaic user, you wouldn't be able to see that option.
it's a lot easier if both browsers would follow guidelines.... I don't like "Exploder"... but Nutscrape is(was?, don't know about 6 yet) absolutely horrible, and the bane to my existance while putting together layouts. This was partially because the designers weren't very adept with HTML, so they designened in dreamweaver, and I had to make sure it worked in every browser...
3) Launches a bunch (16?) "java_vm"s that show in the process table.
This isn't as bad as it seems: all of those processes are threads of a single JVM. So they all share the same memory.
I use N6 on a regular basis now (this reply is written in N6), only switching to 4.75 if I get to a site that crashes 6 - which is way too often. I don't use the mail and news clients.
Netscape 6 on Windows is almost useable, on Linux it's down right beta quality. (The Linux version seems to have all the debugging output turned on.)
SSL support is seriously broken. The program hangs while downloading the page. If I interrupt the download, it locks completely.
There seems to be a bug in the URL handling, causing it to download a page from the wrong server, or using a proxy for sites in the exception list.
So, why am I still using N6? I like the insterface better than the old one, and it's somewhat faster. And things like the cookie and security managers are always welcome.
WWTTD?
According to Websnapshot (http://websnapshot.mycomputer.com):
Microsoft: 79.7%
Netscape: 15.2%
AOL (IE): 5.1%
Other: 1.2%
These numbers are from non-pornographic sites, so they are more likely to include a higher percentage of people using their work PCs.
Man -- after a long vacation I had just sat down to get caught up on my Satire -- and then OUCH here comes the
Oh well -- at least I got a few good laughs from Dubbya's diary thingy...
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
That's nuthin.... Check out the Evolt.org Browser Archive. There's pretty much every browser that ever existed there.
Can you give us some examples of these pages which ns4 and ie5 will both render correctly, but ns6 won't? Not doubting you, just interested to see it for myself.
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
IE 5 on the Mac is great, except that it crashes constantly and there are many sites that knock it over every time. (Don't the IE developers read the Dilbert site?) The browser gets such positive press I assume that other people don't see so many crashes. Any Mac-knowledgeable person out there with a suggestion to improve stability?
No, but I'd like to shear the web-DUH-signers who have made the very concept of "browser share" necessary. What was wrong with writing proper HTML in the first place, you clueless nits!
http://validator.w3.org
Validate your code.
I've been using 6 for a week or so as my main browser. The annoyances are:
1) Use the back button too fast and it goes boom.
2) The mail agent seems to get confused after a bunch of folders get created, and after some mail gets mails diverted to them -- it simply stopped letting me create new folders until the next session.
3) Launches a bunch (16?) "java_vm"s that show in the process table.
4) Won't load newsgroup names. My ISP has a 2MB (or so) list of newsgroups, and I have yet to see the newsgroup downloader in NS6 successfully d/l it. It always crashes. At least 4.75 showed you the groups it *did get*, as I recall.
5) The scrollbars seem to get confused if the mouse is refocused while scrolling. The states seem to get hosed between window resizing and scrolling sometimes.
6) Window rendering gets ugly when the page is loading and you move it around.
It does feel a bit slow, especially the first time scrolling down a large web page -- like a slashdot article with a lot of responses (viewed flat). After getting to the bottom once, it scrolls fairly fast.
IE suffers from a similar list of oddities, but is faster starting and "in general" has more of a quality feel.
Of course, the use of Microsoft products by a zealot like me is completely out of the question, so my big hope is that netscape or staroffice will do something to improve the browsing situation. I'm not a KDE/QT person, so Konquerer and Opera are not an option (for me) either.
I wish the product was better, but I also wish I could get a decent electric car that would go a couple hundred miles and recharge in four hours...it just ain't happening yet, ya know?
There was a time when there was no accelerated OGL on Linux; but I bought q3a for Linux and it runs better than any game I've ever played. 40 fps (consistently) on an old voodoo banshee 400 mhz K62 machine is not bad.
Things will improve. Actually, even if they get
the above items fixed, I'll still hold my nose over the geegaws. I don't like all the geegaws in NS6.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
I download the mozilla nightly...uhh nightly...I have the latest version of Opera...Mozilla hybrids (galeon, skipstone...), Konq, NS 6, and NS 4.7x...I have been playing a cruel came for the last few months. The game is this:
Fire up one of the above and browse normally until a crash happens -- move to the next one, and so on.....I am none to happy to report that the majority of my browsing is still happening with the "old workhorse" NS 4.7x..
I don't know -- maybe the plethora of new browsers is just a clever way of saying: "See NS 4.7x is not so bad after all suckers!"
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
Are you sure you know how this system works?
If Mozilla were to cease operations today and be disbanded, there would be no shortage of browsers for *NIX.
Hammer of Truth
You guys have no sense of reality. Netscape (amonG other uNmentiOnable coMpaniEs) have been true to their latest revised plan since the very beginning. ::To emulate the Windont's environment:: and they have been extremely successful at it. Netscape crashes on my Debian box at least three times a day, and I Kan Do Everything I want with those other apps. (except usually what I want, but that's not always bad is it?) So I don't really HavE any LInuX apps that aren't perfect. (Some AlMost BehAve like they are supposed to- uh sometimes).
Are YOU listed?
Are you sure it's not the Web pages that are buggy? Netscape shouldn't be blamed if Web authors can't bother to even think about standards.
(WDG HTML Validator)
It's hard to emulate someone extending his or her arms to either side in a subject line, but anyway...
I find it funny, but statmarket.com is nice enough to represent the browser breakdown with this graphic.
Clicked-through? OK, guess which browser is represented by the red slice?
Excuse my attempt to poke fun at the generosity of "the industry's most accurate source of data on global Internet user trends". Bring up the front page to their site to see the graphic in context. I found it slightly amusing.
Also excuse my (poor) attempts to disguise this "me, too" post as something else. As others have already mentioned, the numbers do vary from one context to another, there is no one, solid (or as you put it, real) browser breakdown to which we can point, and a lot of the numbers taken as authoritive are based on a lot of false premises or applied to cases far beyond those from which the statistics were taken.
I agree
The Technonaut
It's been a while since I've posted so here goes...
I like Netscape 6.0. I think it's a pretty slick browser for a complete rewrite, a bold move on the part of Netscape, and a very promising platform for web development. Kudos to the Mozilla team!
As for slick, I think the user interface is very smooth and easy to use albiet a little more polish could be applied to make it even better. I've had no problems with the UI at all.
A bold move because Netscape has finally brought their browser up to the state of standards compliance it should have had long ago and that it has largely embraced the Open Source movement to do it - ensuring Netscape's ability to keep abreast of new developments and to quickly adopt W3C standards.
And, a very promising web development platform in that these new technologies and standards are going to allow some pretty interesting things to be done with the browser; bringing Netscape's original vison of the browser as a vehicle upon which advanced internetworked and crossplatform applications can be constructed.
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
erm..try 15 remaining netscape users!! I use it too sometimes!!!
The anti-salmon
The main problem that I have noticed with IE is that the interface is TERRIBLE. The so-called "smooth" scrolling goes in jumps and is extremely slow (on an Athlon 900, RIVA TNT2, 1280x1024x16bit, Windows 4.9). The progress bar displays no useful information whatsoever, and pages seem to load slower in general. And don't get me started about the security problems.
I use mozilla nightlys and I even use netscape at work even on windows. I think netscape is a good broswer and it's also the only browser that can be used for our campus services at UWG.
IE's java VM and crypto don't cut it out of the box - so you're required to use netscape. This also allows linux users to use the web based system to pay fees, drop/add, and register for classes/services.
I run 4.71 on a 90Mhz laptop and mozilla nightlys on my dual 266Mhz w/ RAID. I'm not impressed with IE - tell me why I want to run IE under wine, or un IE in win32?
You can lockup NT with the IE, since it's integreated. Why is that good?
For me at least, IE not only crashes, but doesn't animate animated GIFs (not that I like GIFs, but because people use them). So I'll just be sticking with Netscape for now, okay?
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Aol starts pushing Netscape really hard. If they push it at all. AOL might be scared they will lose thier space on the microsoft desktop. Time will only tell
I really hate the evil empire, really.
and yet here Netscape goes and releases a browser that is buggy (I can't access certain web pages, among other things), and is missing certain enterprise level features that are essential to widespread adoption.
it's just a bit too little a bit too late
too bad AOL can't or won't give up that marketing agreement with Microsoft, that puts AOL in every winblows machine.
don't get me started, as I am bitter at MS for promoting fourth rate solutions, and for pillaging the best ones they do have
I hope someone puts a stake through Microsoft's heart.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
slashdotted already? post your mirrors on this thread!
The anti-salmon
Now we see why the story was down! You must have used your Pentagon connections to get Satirewire taken out so your post would get more points! K**ra w***h!
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Go ahead, blame me... I voted for Nader!
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Go ahead, blame me... I voted for Nader!
I'm a web designer and regular user of netscape 4.7x and occasionally ie5. I dl'd netscape6 hoping to see how my pages looked in that browser.. and the results weren't too good. I code by hand, my sites look fine in ns 4x and ie5, but with ns6 i've noticed some problems with nested tables and with javascript. Hopefully the next revision will take care of some of that, and the monster loading time. Even though it is a nice browser, using ie somehow just feels.. wrong.
While the so-called "official" count shows only 14 Netscape users, there are reports that dozens of senior citizens who had intended to download Netscape accidentally voted for Pat Buchanan.
When will the version number exceed the number of remaining users?