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I'll add that most of HP's desktops and servers are assembled in the U.S. They don't seem to be having any problems getting screws despite being the #2 computer maker by volume, so they probably sell 2-3 orders of magnitude more PCs than Mac Pros.

I was hoping that there were PCs still being made in the US, but apparently not. Oh, they may be _assembling_ some, but most of the components come from overseas.

https://www.neweggbusiness.com...

Oh, and let me know when the 15" MBP with the Core i7 doesn't cost $2399.

Apple 15" MBP no touch pad, upgraded to 512 SSD and the mid-level CPU (100MHz slower peak, but 1 step up would put it several hundred higher)

$2299 - already upgraded

This Asus UX501VW laptop with a Core i7-6700HQ, 4K IPS touchscreen, 512GB PCIe SSD, 16GB DDR4 RAM, is $1079 and has VASTLY better specs than the $2399 MBP in practically all categories.

• Weight - +10%
• CPU Performance -11%
• Battery -20% at best
• Disk performance - didn't bother confirming but I'll bet it is significantly slower.

Also, more expensive comparable PC laptops that are still priced lower than the 15" MBP only get better and make the (still using outdated DDR3 for some reason...) MBP look like a joke.

I checked the MSI series out when I purchased my last one a little over a year ago - they weren't ready for prime time then, and I'll bet that still holds true today. You will be making tradeoffs with those laptops, either in weight, CPU speed, disk speed and always battery life over a comparable Apple laptop. BTW, one requirement I have is to run UNIX under the covers. I'm 100% fine running Linux or BSD on a laptop, provided they're 1) supported and 2) usable. Battery life is also important to me.

But please, feel free to find another way to support your baseless assertion that "on a like for like comparison as much as possible, Apple laptops cost about the same or even less than their competition." I just did a like-for-like comparison and a 15" Apple laptop you could buy right now gives you drastically lower specs for more than double the price than a PC laptop you also buy right now.

It's not baseless.

Every single laptop you referenced offers significantly diminished battery life, and all use at least some slower components that matter, namely SSDs and CPUs. DDR4 doesn't help you for squat if the CPU is 10% slower to begin with, and if the CPU is as fast or faster, then disk I/O becomes an issue, at least for my workloads. But hey, you lug that heavy half-life laptop along and enjoy your "savings". You'll be spending it on that extra software you'll need that I don't. ;)

Oh, and let me know when the 15" MBP with the Core i7 doesn't cost $2399.

Apple 15" MBP no touch pad, upgraded to 512 SSD and the mid-level CPU (100MHz slower peak, but 1 step up would put it several hundred higher)

$2299 - already upgraded

This Asus UX501VW laptop with a Core i7-6700HQ, 4K IPS touchscreen, 512GB PCIe SSD, 16GB DDR4 RAM, is $1079 and has VASTLY better specs than the $2399 MBP in practically all categories.

• Weight - +10%
• CPU Performance -11%
• Battery -20% at best
• Disk performance - didn't bother confirming but I'll bet it is significantly slower.

Also, more expensive comparable PC laptops that are still priced lower than the 15" MBP only get better and make the (still using outdated DDR3 for some reason...) MBP look like a joke.

I checked the MSI series out when I purchased my last one a little over a year ago - they weren't ready for prime time then, and I'll bet that still holds true today. You will be making tradeoffs with those laptops, either in weight, CPU speed, disk speed and always battery life over a comparable Apple laptop. BTW, one requirement I have is to run UNIX under the covers. I'm 100% fine running Linux or BSD on a laptop, provided they're 1) supported and 2) usable. Battery life is also important to me.

But please, feel free to find another way to support your baseless assertion that "on a like for like comparison as much as possible, Apple laptops cost about the same or even less than their competition." I just did a like-for-like comparison and a 15" Apple laptop you could buy right now gives you drastically lower specs for more than double the price than a PC laptop you also buy right now.

It's not baseless.

Every single laptop you referenced offers significantly diminished battery life, and all use at least some slower components that matter, namely SSDs and CPUs. DDR4 doesn't help you for squat if the CPU is 10% slower to begin with, and if the CPU is as fast or faster, then disk I/O becomes an issue, at least for my workloads. But hey, you lug that heavy half-life laptop along and enjoy your "savings". You'll be spending it on that extra software you'll need that I don't. ;)

That is such bullshit. Apple's laptops are consistently overpriced "like for like" compared to the closest matching PC laptop hardware available. PC laptops also have the distinct advantage of not being designed to be unrepairable and non-upgradable. In the vast majority of higher-end PC laptops the RAM and PCIe SSD can be upgraded by the end user. In many there is an option to have both a PCIe SSD and a storage hard drive installed. Good luck desoldering your BGA memory chips and SSD from your overpriced Macbook Pro. If you don't buy the obnoxiously expensive spec upgrades at check-out, your computer is obsolete the minute you need more RAM or internal storage and the only solution is to buy a whole new Apple computer.

Oh, and let me know when the 15" MBP with the Core i7 doesn't cost $2399. This Asus UX501VW laptop with a Core i7-6700HQ, 4K IPS touchscreen, 512GB PCIe SSD, 16GB DDR4 RAM, is $1079 and has VASTLY better specs than the $2399 MBP in practically all categories. Also, more expensive comparable PC laptops that are still priced lower than the 15" MBP only get better and make the (still using outdated DDR3 for some reason...) MBP look like a joke.

But please, feel free to find another way to support your baseless assertion that "on a like for like comparison as much as possible, Apple laptops cost about the same or even less than their competition." I just did a like-for-like comparison and a 15" Apple laptop you could buy right now gives you drastically lower specs for more than double the price than a PC laptop you also buy right now.

That is such bullshit. Apple's laptops are consistently overpriced "like for like" compared to the closest matching PC laptop hardware available. PC laptops also have the distinct advantage of not being designed to be unrepairable and non-upgradable. In the vast majority of higher-end PC laptops the RAM and PCIe SSD can be upgraded by the end user. In many there is an option to have both a PCIe SSD and a storage hard drive installed. Good luck desoldering your BGA memory chips and SSD from your overpriced Macbook Pro. If you don't buy the obnoxiously expensive spec upgrades at check-out, your computer is obsolete the minute you need more RAM or internal storage and the only solution is to buy a whole new Apple computer.

Oh, and let me know when the 15" MBP with the Core i7 doesn't cost $2399. This Asus UX501VW laptop with a Core i7-6700HQ, 4K IPS touchscreen, 512GB PCIe SSD, 16GB DDR4 RAM, is $1079 and has VASTLY better specs than the $2399 MBP in practically all categories. Also, more expensive comparable PC laptops that are still priced lower than the 15" MBP only get better and make the (still using outdated DDR3 for some reason...) MBP look like a joke.

But please, feel free to find another way to support your baseless assertion that "on a like for like comparison as much as possible, Apple laptops cost about the same or even less than their competition." I just did a like-for-like comparison and a 15" Apple laptop you could buy right now gives you drastically lower specs for more than double the price than a PC laptop you also buy right now.

Only problem is where you shop. Not to plug newegg, there are many other cheap(er) venders you can probably find this at too, but just to prove a point:

$43 shipped: http://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-33-993-021
$66 shipped: http://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-33-978-030
$80 shipped: http://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-33-993-022


I imagine if you are buying for a large institution you have a vendor that offers volume discounts as well, so they should in theory be paying even less than this.

Only problem is where you shop. Not to plug newegg, there are many other cheap(er) venders you can probably find this at too, but just to prove a point:

$43 shipped: http://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-33-993-021
$66 shipped: http://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-33-978-030
$80 shipped: http://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-33-993-022


I imagine if you are buying for a large institution you have a vendor that offers volume discounts as well, so they should in theory be paying even less than this.

Only problem is where you shop. Not to plug newegg, there are many other cheap(er) venders you can probably find this at too, but just to prove a point:

$43 shipped: http://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-33-993-021
$66 shipped: http://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-33-978-030
$80 shipped: http://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-33-993-022


I imagine if you are buying for a large institution you have a vendor that offers volume discounts as well, so they should in theory be paying even less than this.