Slashdot Mirror

To be fair, such uses don't really need high speed internet; even SMS can do the job, for example

To be fair, such uses don't really need high speed internet; even SMS can do the job, for example

There is power in being a consumer

Yeah, like there's power in being a voter. But I don't see many supporters of minority parties celebrating because their interests are being represented in Congress.

The beauty of the free market compared to democracy is that you don't need to be in the majority to get what you want. The majority can buy from Motorola and others while you can freely buy from the those that cater to you. Personally I have an OpenMoko Freerunner. If you want something newer you could have look at GeeksPhone, Nokia 900 or one of the many other phones out there to see if they are free enough for you.

One thing you may not have noticed... GM isn't even NEARLY no. 1 when it comes to cars... that spot belongs either to Toyota or Volkswagen.

Nokia have got their top spot for a good reason, and they probably won't move for a while. The reason is that the whole world doesn't really want $500 shiny toys which make you a big target for thieves and a new one that's better is coming out in 6 months. Here in South Africa, for example, you can buy a Nokia 1200 for the equivalent of US$40. They consistently have good, affordable phones which last a long time. I've used Nokias my whole life, I've mostly gotten them after my parents have finished with them, my previous one (an N95) lasted 5 years before it became unuseable, and that was mostly due to it being in my pocket when I was out in the rain... it got soaked... But back to my point, America and Western Europe's obsession with powerful expensive smartphones isn't representative of the rest of the world's needs.

And hopefully they'll continue to do so.

My N900 allowed me to trivially gain root access by enabling a repository and installing a package that enabled root access. I was able to then add additional repositories and do whatever the hell I wanted.

I don't expect it to always be that easy, and would prefer at least a hardware latch before such activation (proper security with strong defaults) but there should ALWAYS be an "opt-out" for users to assume. The vast majority won't, but it'll keep the handful that want to off your back.

And hell, they may help you later.

... after researching which phones can easily be 'rooted' and which brands have a reputation for maintaining the phone so you'll get the latest version of the OS?

http://www.google.com/nexus/

(Or well, if you're OK with non-Android devices also:
http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/ but it's pretty alone with Maemo and MeeGo isn't finished.
The S^3 devices should be upgradable in the future, such as the N8.
Also I think Palm Pre/WebOS have a nice reputation when it comes to openness/upgrade-ability?)

That line there seemed more about portability of Qt itself. Vs. how some (presumably) hobbyists do mostly working ports left and right. And at least quite a few new Symbian apps do use it (as well as ongoing changes to the OS); quick search finds a few non-Nokia examples (+GENIVI Alliance...) / I'm not sure how much more portable other largely hobbyist & non-universally supported projects can be...

Another possibility would be to only distribute your binaries and provide a download link to the QT binary libs on the Nokia site. That way Nokia remains the distributor and you will not have to provide any source code. To be safe you should still attribute Nokia by putting a notice in your software (e.g. About popup) that you're using the QT libs version X (c) Nokia under the LGPL 2.1 license .

The LGPL v2.1 license explicitly allows you to also use the code under the GPL v2 license instead. In that case you will have to distribute your binaries with all sources (including your own, but you may dual-license with some commercial license if you wish) under the GPL v2 or compatible license. Note that the GPL v2 is not compatible with the GPL v3 license unless the license headers state that you can use the sources under the GPL v2 or a later version

It is worth noting that QT is multi-licensed: LGPL v2.1, or GPL v3 with a special exception (allowing you to include it in certain non-GPL compatible open source code, e.g. licenced MPL), or commercial (then you have to pay, but you can use it practically as you please). See here.

http://qt.nokia.com/products/licensing

Option 3.. gee, that was hard to find..

Go for Qt/C++. Your application is then available for Windows, Linux, Symbian and Maemo/Meego. Qt Creator is great tool to make user interfaces and using WRT is something to take a look at also. For a quick start go to http://qt.nokia.com/downloads and see some tutorials.

Qt has recently introduced Qt Quick, a collection of technologies meant to help you create animation-rich UIs similar to those used on touch phones. The most important part is the QML language, which is used to describe the user interface of a program. QML is declarative and animation-friendly, and makes it easy to create fluid interfaces. On the downside, it is not mature yet and lacks most of the standard UI widgets at the moment (basically, you have text input and clickable areas). I wouldn't have recommended it for general application writing just yet, but the original question was not very specific on the requirements so it might be suitable already in its current form.

Qt has recently introduced Qt Quick, a collection of technologies meant to help you create animation-rich UIs similar to those used on touch phones. The most important part is the QML language, which is used to describe the user interface of a program. QML is declarative and animation-friendly, and makes it easy to create fluid interfaces. On the downside, it is not mature yet and lacks most of the standard UI widgets at the moment (basically, you have text input and clickable areas). I wouldn't have recommended it for general application writing just yet, but the original question was not very specific on the requirements so it might be suitable already in its current form.

Qt requires code generation using the MOC utility for classes derived from QObject. Qt uses the code-gen to extend C++ a bit (for introspection) and it's there for legacy reasons (incomplete template support in old C++ compilers). QMake deals with it automatically, but it shouldn't be too hard to create a build-rule for whatever IDE you are used to using.

Qt-Creator is rapidly growing. Here is Qt-Creator's current support for refactoring and I think refactoring is getting more attention in the next release. On windows Qt-Creator currently supports MinGW and MSVC, along with GDB and Microsoft's CDB for debugging.

The Visual Studio Qt plugin does work with the open source version, but you are required to build it from source using the MSVC compiler.

If you are having any other issues with Qt, please feel free to write me.

A canvas, to be useful, needs a whole lot of supporting code. If you go the whole nine yards, you end up with an application development toolkit like Qt. Suppose you have some text that needs editing on the canvas. Do you really want to implement text editing GUI yourself? While this may be simple for a fixed width font, things get tricky with kerning and multiple formattings, and you start getting sidetracked a lot when your right-to-left locale customers complain that nothing works.

Qt's QGraphicsView is the canvas widget you're looking for; your items would derive from
QGraphicsItem. About the only shortcoming of that subsystem is that there's no built-in support for interaction-independent views of the same scene. You can have multiple views of the same scene, but all they differ with is the viewport transformation. Thus you can't have, for example, different objects selected in different views of (windows into) the same scene, and you can't edit something in one view, stop, edit something else in another view, then come back to the first view -- both selection and focus is per-scene, not per-view like needed in such scenario.

I don't know offhand of any generic 2D canvas system that would come anywhere close to implementing a per-view interaction context -- the latter consisting at least of the selection, focus, and user-interaction elements (such as handles, pop-up menus, whatnot). Qt's canvas is perhaps the most feature-laden canvas of them all anyway, in spite of the above limitation.

A canvas, to be useful, needs a whole lot of supporting code. If you go the whole nine yards, you end up with an application development toolkit like Qt. Suppose you have some text that needs editing on the canvas. Do you really want to implement text editing GUI yourself? While this may be simple for a fixed width font, things get tricky with kerning and multiple formattings, and you start getting sidetracked a lot when your right-to-left locale customers complain that nothing works.

Qt's QGraphicsView is the canvas widget you're looking for; your items would derive from
QGraphicsItem. About the only shortcoming of that subsystem is that there's no built-in support for interaction-independent views of the same scene. You can have multiple views of the same scene, but all they differ with is the viewport transformation. Thus you can't have, for example, different objects selected in different views of (windows into) the same scene, and you can't edit something in one view, stop, edit something else in another view, then come back to the first view -- both selection and focus is per-scene, not per-view like needed in such scenario.

I don't know offhand of any generic 2D canvas system that would come anywhere close to implementing a per-view interaction context -- the latter consisting at least of the selection, focus, and user-interaction elements (such as handles, pop-up menus, whatnot). Qt's canvas is perhaps the most feature-laden canvas of them all anyway, in spite of the above limitation.

• There is an LGPL ide Qt-Creator that has an integrated form designer.
• The code you write is amazingly cross-platform.
• The framework is amazingly comprehensive for when your needs expand.
• There are top notch learning resources, including excellent books.
• The Qt framework is LGPL.

I use the Qt framework at home and at work and I have published a couple teeny GPL'd apps:

• an XML Schema Validator
• an automatically updating file viewer

Regardless of which framework you decide to use, I wish you luck!

• There is an LGPL ide Qt-Creator that has an integrated form designer.
• The code you write is amazingly cross-platform.
• The framework is amazingly comprehensive for when your needs expand.
• There are top notch learning resources, including excellent books.
• The Qt framework is LGPL.

I use the Qt framework at home and at work and I have published a couple teeny GPL'd apps:

• an XML Schema Validator
• an automatically updating file viewer

Regardless of which framework you decide to use, I wish you luck!

• There is an LGPL ide Qt-Creator that has an integrated form designer.
• The code you write is amazingly cross-platform.
• The framework is amazingly comprehensive for when your needs expand.
• There are top notch learning resources, including excellent books.
• The Qt framework is LGPL.

I use the Qt framework at home and at work and I have published a couple teeny GPL'd apps:

• an XML Schema Validator
• an automatically updating file viewer

Regardless of which framework you decide to use, I wish you luck!

• There is an LGPL ide Qt-Creator that has an integrated form designer.
• The code you write is amazingly cross-platform.
• The framework is amazingly comprehensive for when your needs expand.
• There are top notch learning resources, including excellent books.
• The Qt framework is LGPL.

I use the Qt framework at home and at work and I have published a couple teeny GPL'd apps:

• an XML Schema Validator
• an automatically updating file viewer

Regardless of which framework you decide to use, I wish you luck!

• There is an LGPL ide Qt-Creator that has an integrated form designer.
• The code you write is amazingly cross-platform.
• The framework is amazingly comprehensive for when your needs expand.
• There are top notch learning resources, including excellent books.
• The Qt framework is LGPL.

I use the Qt framework at home and at work and I have published a couple teeny GPL'd apps:

• an XML Schema Validator
• an automatically updating file viewer

Regardless of which framework you decide to use, I wish you luck!

Speaking as someone who is directly affected by this situation, and as the owner of a Nokia phone, this is a great thing for the Symbian platform. My N8 runs Symbian^3, which reviewers have unanimously summarised as "great hardware, undercooked software". Instead of this phone becoming outdated in 6 months when S^4 comes out (it was very unlikely that S^3 to S^4 upgrades would have been possible), it will now receive all the S^4 enhancements in future firmware updates. Nokia have publicly stated on many occasions that they expect to sell over 50 million Symbian^3 devices.

Also, instead of a different touch UI on top of Symbian, and a different touch UI on top of MeeGo, everything will now be Qt Quick. This is much better news for developers.

The Symbian platform is not dead, by any means; the mobile landscape is currently such that there were not enough manufacturers to support Symbian's success as a cross-vendor platform. If anyone is interested in hiring some great developers/build/test people in London, drop me a message.

I second the suggestion about Qt.

There used to be some reservation about Qt in the community, but now its available under LGPL (and also commercially if you want).

There's a screen painter along with a free IDE (Qt Creator).

Qt is on mobile phones, car computers, Mac/Lin/Win, etc.

> I also would love if it had the ability to understand what platform it is on and adjust to have the "feel" of the native OS.
They claim "Native Aqua look and feel, with Aqua-style widgets" (Qt for Mac)

Btw, there's also another popular cross-platform graphics toolkit called WxWidgets. A lot of apps use that (with C++ and Python)

I second the suggestion about Qt.

There used to be some reservation about Qt in the community, but now its available under LGPL (and also commercially if you want).

There's a screen painter along with a free IDE (Qt Creator).

Qt is on mobile phones, car computers, Mac/Lin/Win, etc.

> I also would love if it had the ability to understand what platform it is on and adjust to have the "feel" of the native OS.
They claim "Native Aqua look and feel, with Aqua-style widgets" (Qt for Mac)

Btw, there's also another popular cross-platform graphics toolkit called WxWidgets. A lot of apps use that (with C++ and Python)

I second the suggestion about Qt.

There used to be some reservation about Qt in the community, but now its available under LGPL (and also commercially if you want).

There's a screen painter along with a free IDE (Qt Creator).

Qt is on mobile phones, car computers, Mac/Lin/Win, etc.

> I also would love if it had the ability to understand what platform it is on and adjust to have the "feel" of the native OS.
They claim "Native Aqua look and feel, with Aqua-style widgets" (Qt for Mac)

Btw, there's also another popular cross-platform graphics toolkit called WxWidgets. A lot of apps use that (with C++ and Python)

Hmmm... (not even close to the only one, just fastest link to get to) you were saying? (generally, I find your description of situation in Europe imprecise)

What you want is Qt... it does all of this in native C++ (and there are binding for python and ruby if you want to go that route):

http://qt.nokia.com/products/

Nokia has announced there will be no more high end phones (higher than the N8) that will run Symbian, they will all run Meego.

That has been heavily reported, but it is flat out wrong. They announced that the N8 is the last high-end phone to run Symbian^3 - future phones will run Meego or Symbian^4: source.

You might want to look into Qt-Creator for your cross-platform C++ development. It just so happens that it is integrated with the Qt libraries and tools quite seamlessly and makes developing applications for linux and windows at the same time a snap.

Qt Creator

This is a quote from the Qt licensing FAQ:

"Can I switch from using Qt under the LGPL to commercial afterwards?

"No. Users of the LGPL versions of Qt need to comply with the LGPL licensing terms and conditions. Qt's commercial license agreement contains a restriction that prohibits customers from initially beginning development with the LGPL-licensed version of Qt and then transitioning to a commercial version of Qt."

Four sections earlier, the FAQ says this, in part:

"... If you are uncertain as to whether or not you will be able to comply with the LGPL requirements at the time you begin your development, our recommendation is that you purchase a commercial license as it gives you the flexibility to decide licensing (commercial or LGPL) at the time of distribution."

It seems to me that it would be easy for a company to create a legal mess for itself. What a company will do in the future cannot be foreseen.

What would happen if a developer at a company who did not have a commercial license, but was using a free license, contributed to a commercial project? Often there are discussions about architecture, and someone may contribute ideas for an architecture that are later adopted. The sociology of programming is not as clean as Qt licensing apparently considers it to be.

Note that this problem was not created by Nokia. It existed when Qt was owned by Trolltech.

Ah, OK. Thanks for the clarification!

So the only license which would be incompatible is the Qt Commercial Developer License.

http://qt.nokia.com/products/licensing/

If Nokia wanted to merge KDElibs into Qt, they’d have to drop that.

Quote from the parent comment: '... that can legally only happen if Nokia moves away from the currently mandatory "right to relicense..." '

Could you explain the "right to relicense" and provide a link? I don't see a reference to that on the Qt web site.

This paragraph illustrates two issues with Qt: 1) a possibly impossible licensing provision, and 2) managerial sloppiness. Quoting exactly:

"You must purchase a Qt Commercial Developer License from us or from one of our authorized resellers before you start developing commercial software as you are not permitted to begin your development with an open source licensed Qt version and convert to the commercially license version at a later ."

License provision: If someone develops some code using a free version of Qt at home, and re-implements that at work, an entire commercial project can be corrupted, apparently. It seems that license provision is impossible for Nokia to enforce, and also impossible for a company to defend against, if Nokia brings a case against a particular project. It's common that commercial programmers consider programming issues at home. How would a company show that there was no contribution to a commercial product from the free version of Qt?

Why should open-source developers care about close-source licensing provisions? Because, historically, technological development moves away from undesirable conditions. That makes the long-term prospects uncertain.

Sloppiness: At present, 2010-10-31, 16:34 PDT, the last word of the quoted paragraph is missing. What will happen now that Nokia bought Qt? Will there be internal politics at Nokia that prevents sensible management? There is a lot of sloppiness; that's only one example.

Don't Nokia managers look at their own web site? My company does that kind of work, and we've found that, perhaps surprisingly, sloppiness in communication generally indicates serious problems with management.

Very soon these devices will wirelessly talk to keyboard, monitors, each other, the public internet,/i>

You want Nokias, they already talk to bluetooth keyboards and have HDMI cable connectors for your TV at 720p at least. That's for the consumer stuff, try the N900 for the 'smart computing device'

I'm not sure if you can get a docking station for them that has the cable and BT set up - worth asking.

Nokia will now sign the cert for your app on the Ovi store.

You don't have to be a company anymore; you can just be an individual with an app.

Nokia will even critique your app and UI for you:

http://www.forum.nokia.com/Develop/Development_process/

For all the bullshit in this article, he never even talks about Nokia's Q3 financial performance. They've sold 26.5 million smartphones, with an operating profit of €529 million, and net sales of €10.3 billion. Today in India, you can buy a Symbian based Nokia C5 for about INR 7000 unsubsidized (about $160). Just a couple of years ago that was unthinkable for a Symbian phone, they typically cost double or more. Nokia's pushing smartphones lower into the mass market with Symbian - they're able to standardize the hardware (600 MHz ARM CPUs as of now) and because of Symbian's scalability it can power these low end handsets. Meego will wind up for the successors to the N900 and probably be a netbook/smartphone hybrid OS, with appropriately beefy hardware and targeted at the high end market. And both Meego and Symbian will be bound by Qt for application development, so that there's no fragmentation going forward for developers. Qt is a proven toolkit, in use by Skype, Google Maps and VLC, and can be used to make desktop apps for Windows/Linux/Mac as well. And naturally everything here is true honest open source, not locked down or restricted like the 2 competing phone OSes(Android the OS being restricted by its device manufacturers even if it itself is open source). I see this as quite good - an incentive for developers to write apps that will reach the entire world, not just the US (there's 10 million downloads a day on Ovi Store as of now, it seems), while using standard development tools that can be used outside of mobile phones as well.

Not sure if this exactly answers your questions, but you should probably check this out: QT for mobile plarforms

How's Android any more open than Nokia?

Nokia just announced its support for Qt as the main platform for all of its smartphones, whether Symbian or Linux-based. (Nokia owns Qt, and it's available as LGPL.) They're coming out with an XML-based GUI and HTML5 scripting, too.

You can develop for mobile, Linux, Windows, and Mac platforms. And you can use your choice of Lin/Mac/Win for dev, too, leveraging FOSS developers knowledge of Qt and Qt Creator.

There's an Android port of Qt, too.

You can also contribute mods/fixes to Qt, I'm not sure if that's the case with Android.

How's Android any more open than Nokia?

Nokia just announced its support for Qt as the main platform for all of its smartphones, whether Symbian or Linux-based. (Nokia owns Qt, and it's available as LGPL.) They're coming out with an XML-based GUI and HTML5 scripting, too.

You can develop for mobile, Linux, Windows, and Mac platforms. And you can use your choice of Lin/Mac/Win for dev, too, leveraging FOSS developers knowledge of Qt and Qt Creator.

There's an Android port of Qt, too.

You can also contribute mods/fixes to Qt, I'm not sure if that's the case with Android.

How's Android any more open than Nokia?

Nokia just announced its support for Qt as the main platform for all of its smartphones, whether Symbian or Linux-based. (Nokia owns Qt, and it's available as LGPL.) They're coming out with an XML-based GUI and HTML5 scripting, too.

You can develop for mobile, Linux, Windows, and Mac platforms. And you can use your choice of Lin/Mac/Win for dev, too, leveraging FOSS developers knowledge of Qt and Qt Creator.

There's an Android port of Qt, too.

You can also contribute mods/fixes to Qt, I'm not sure if that's the case with Android.

The Nokia N900 really does just run a desktop Linux stack. From that perspective you can do whatever you want with it pretty easily. Things like SyncEvolution work on the N900. That said, Nokia's Maemo is in the process of being merged with Intel's Moblin into MeeGo. It may be worth waiting to see what Nokia's first MeeGo phone is like and perhaps getting that in preference to the N900.

> If nokia couldn't tell what would work on one of their device, then what hopes do developers have

Well, they can try it themselves, of course, using remote device access :

http://www.forum.nokia.com/Devices/Remote_device_access/

or, shock, actually buy some devices themselves.

These solutions might not work in all cases, but I do think it counts as 'hope'.

How about a little known guy named "Steve Jobs"? He can do math too.
link
link

Even better, check the endgadget coverage of the 2006 WWDC. IT'S RIGHT ON THE BIG SCREEN. Article
Direct Link to image

If you think Adobe was the only large company to get screwed by Apple's change, read a Nokia technician's perspective on this: link

So what's wrong with QT?

http://qt.nokia.com/products/whats-new-in-qt

But yeah, Flash is probably awesome too as far as platform support goes.
I know Java isn't supposed to be inferior just because it's Java. But kinda everyone using products developed in it tend to feel it is. Maybe they are all wrong (or use an old JRE.) And seriously Oracles behavior doesn't help. Sun was cool, Oracle not so much.

Clippit: "Looks like you intend to get a BlackBerry device. Would you like help?
[ ] Order Nokia E7.
[ ] Wait for MeeGo.
[ ] STFU and let me order my BlackBerry device."

Contradiction much?

You know it's possible to be wrong about something and also be wrong to bring it up in the first place.

Yeah about that lens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtIFBMbiaPo&feature=player_embedded
Yeah about that camera: http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/08/nokia-n8-camera-2260-days-in-the-making-part-12/ and http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/09/nokia-n8-camera-2260-days-in-the-making-part-22/

HDR? that you've never mentioned until Apple added it recently? http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/27/nokia-n900-fcam-hdr-and-low-light-examples/ (that's before the iphone added it, and will come to N8). Other nice things in the N8 (and its S^3 siblings) are automatic panorama: http://dailymobile.se/2010/09/21/nokia-n8-panorama-photo/

Okay, so the camera's nice, but, not by much, and Nokia hasn't shipped HDR in a phone device. The N900 is more like an expensive ass MID.

Now obviously you're just a troll, but I hope some might find these links useful.

Nokia's still doomed. The N8 isn't as nice as the iPhone, or any of the high end Android devices. The US has caught up with Europe in terms of quality of phone and has now blown Nokia out of the water. Apple and Google will continue to eat Nokia's lunch. Nokia's not even popular in Finland anymore.

Contradiction much?

You know it's possible to be wrong about something and also be wrong to bring it up in the first place.

Yeah about that lens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtIFBMbiaPo&feature=player_embedded
Yeah about that camera: http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/08/nokia-n8-camera-2260-days-in-the-making-part-12/ and http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/09/nokia-n8-camera-2260-days-in-the-making-part-22/

HDR? that you've never mentioned until Apple added it recently? http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/27/nokia-n900-fcam-hdr-and-low-light-examples/ (that's before the iphone added it, and will come to N8). Other nice things in the N8 (and its S^3 siblings) are automatic panorama: http://dailymobile.se/2010/09/21/nokia-n8-panorama-photo/

Okay, so the camera's nice, but, not by much, and Nokia hasn't shipped HDR in a phone device. The N900 is more like an expensive ass MID.

Now obviously you're just a troll, but I hope some might find these links useful.

Nokia's still doomed. The N8 isn't as nice as the iPhone, or any of the high end Android devices. The US has caught up with Europe in terms of quality of phone and has now blown Nokia out of the water. Apple and Google will continue to eat Nokia's lunch. Nokia's not even popular in Finland anymore.

Contradiction much?

You know it's possible to be wrong about something and also be wrong to bring it up in the first place.

Yeah about that lens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtIFBMbiaPo&feature=player_embedded
Yeah about that camera: http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/08/nokia-n8-camera-2260-days-in-the-making-part-12/ and http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/09/nokia-n8-camera-2260-days-in-the-making-part-22/

HDR? that you've never mentioned until Apple added it recently? http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/27/nokia-n900-fcam-hdr-and-low-light-examples/ (that's before the iphone added it, and will come to N8). Other nice things in the N8 (and its S^3 siblings) are automatic panorama: http://dailymobile.se/2010/09/21/nokia-n8-panorama-photo/

Okay, so the camera's nice, but, not by much, and Nokia hasn't shipped HDR in a phone device. The N900 is more like an expensive ass MID.

Now obviously you're just a troll, but I hope some might find these links useful.

Nokia's still doomed. The N8 isn't as nice as the iPhone, or any of the high end Android devices. The US has caught up with Europe in terms of quality of phone and has now blown Nokia out of the water. Apple and Google will continue to eat Nokia's lunch. Nokia's not even popular in Finland anymore.

"""Uhm, better hardware? .. Beyond that, devices are more than just their spec sheet, it's the whole user experience and ecosystem."""

Contradiction much?

"""the 12 Megapixel camera, which is pointless because the lens on cel phone cameras suck. All that 12 megapixel camera's doing is just providing the same grainy photographs but using more space. When you publish these images to the web, it gets downsampled anyway."""

Yeah about that lens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtIFBMbiaPo&feature=player_embedded
Yeah about that camera: http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/08/nokia-n8-camera-2260-days-in-the-making-part-12/ and http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/09/nokia-n8-camera-2260-days-in-the-making-part-22/

HDR? that you've never mentioned until Apple added it recently? http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/27/nokia-n900-fcam-hdr-and-low-light-examples/ (that's before the iphone added it, and will come to N8). Other nice things in the N8 (and its S^3 siblings) are automatic panorama: http://dailymobile.se/2010/09/21/nokia-n8-panorama-photo/

Resolution? N8 is 210ppi, nothing wrong with that. And certainly never was an issue for iphone fans until the iphone 4 (up until then they had 163ppi).

"""You think it's a good idea for a phone to be always connected to some server to be told how hot or cold it is outside? You don't see how this could say, impact the battery?"""

Widgets know when the screen is on, when the network is up, and which screen you are looking it. They do not update otherwise. Oh, and you can see if you missed a call without having to unlock your phone. Battery life is very good on the N8, even when using widgets: http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2010/09/23/nokia-n8-live-photography-live-qa-join-in-now/ as told by an iphone 4 user.

Now obviously you're just a troll, but I hope some might find these links useful.

"""Uhm, better hardware? .. Beyond that, devices are more than just their spec sheet, it's the whole user experience and ecosystem."""

Contradiction much?

"""the 12 Megapixel camera, which is pointless because the lens on cel phone cameras suck. All that 12 megapixel camera's doing is just providing the same grainy photographs but using more space. When you publish these images to the web, it gets downsampled anyway."""

Yeah about that lens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtIFBMbiaPo&feature=player_embedded
Yeah about that camera: http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/08/nokia-n8-camera-2260-days-in-the-making-part-12/ and http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/09/nokia-n8-camera-2260-days-in-the-making-part-22/

HDR? that you've never mentioned until Apple added it recently? http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/27/nokia-n900-fcam-hdr-and-low-light-examples/ (that's before the iphone added it, and will come to N8). Other nice things in the N8 (and its S^3 siblings) are automatic panorama: http://dailymobile.se/2010/09/21/nokia-n8-panorama-photo/

Resolution? N8 is 210ppi, nothing wrong with that. And certainly never was an issue for iphone fans until the iphone 4 (up until then they had 163ppi).

"""You think it's a good idea for a phone to be always connected to some server to be told how hot or cold it is outside? You don't see how this could say, impact the battery?"""

Widgets know when the screen is on, when the network is up, and which screen you are looking it. They do not update otherwise. Oh, and you can see if you missed a call without having to unlock your phone. Battery life is very good on the N8, even when using widgets: http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2010/09/23/nokia-n8-live-photography-live-qa-join-in-now/ as told by an iphone 4 user.

Now obviously you're just a troll, but I hope some might find these links useful.

"""Uhm, better hardware? .. Beyond that, devices are more than just their spec sheet, it's the whole user experience and ecosystem."""

Contradiction much?

"""the 12 Megapixel camera, which is pointless because the lens on cel phone cameras suck. All that 12 megapixel camera's doing is just providing the same grainy photographs but using more space. When you publish these images to the web, it gets downsampled anyway."""

Yeah about that lens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtIFBMbiaPo&feature=player_embedded
Yeah about that camera: http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/08/nokia-n8-camera-2260-days-in-the-making-part-12/ and http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/09/nokia-n8-camera-2260-days-in-the-making-part-22/

HDR? that you've never mentioned until Apple added it recently? http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/27/nokia-n900-fcam-hdr-and-low-light-examples/ (that's before the iphone added it, and will come to N8). Other nice things in the N8 (and its S^3 siblings) are automatic panorama: http://dailymobile.se/2010/09/21/nokia-n8-panorama-photo/

Resolution? N8 is 210ppi, nothing wrong with that. And certainly never was an issue for iphone fans until the iphone 4 (up until then they had 163ppi).

"""You think it's a good idea for a phone to be always connected to some server to be told how hot or cold it is outside? You don't see how this could say, impact the battery?"""

Widgets know when the screen is on, when the network is up, and which screen you are looking it. They do not update otherwise. Oh, and you can see if you missed a call without having to unlock your phone. Battery life is very good on the N8, even when using widgets: http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2010/09/23/nokia-n8-live-photography-live-qa-join-in-now/ as told by an iphone 4 user.

Now obviously you're just a troll, but I hope some might find these links useful.

http://qt.nokia.com/products/whats-new-in-qt
http://meego.com/about/licensing-policy

?