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RIM Doesn't Want 200 Fart Apps
andylim writes "Just when you thought it was safe to dev a fart app for a BlackBerry, RIM's VP of platform product management, Alan Panezic, is making it clear that that's not want RIM is looking for. 'We don't need 200 fart apps in App World. Those are apps you'll use three or four times then never open again. You're not looking at ads, clicking on ads or buying premium upgrades, and the app isn't adding any value to your device.' Turns out RIM wants 'SuperApps', ones that keep you coming back for more because they add something to your life — be it ongoing entertainment value or doing something for you. Most importantly for developers, these are the apps that will garner the most revenue; whether it comes from premium upgrades, in-app advertising, or additional-cost content."
The last time I looked at it with any interest, Java was used to write apps for the Blackberry. The other day they opened it up to include HTML5 and JavaScript. That's not so great, it sounds like those (mostly lame) WebApps that are great for Sudoko but not 3D Gaming.
On iOS most people compile C or Objective-C and have a kick-ass IDE to work with: Xcode.
Sorry, RIM, I just can't see the appeal to write something in a dying language for a mouldering platform.
...but a RIM ain't one.
"I hope you know how very lucky you are to know me, because I am so incredibly incredible."
...many of its customers actually want fart apps, because some people think they're entertaining.
Liberal? Conservative? Compare perspectives at Left-Right
"... is making it clear that that's not want RIM is looking for." *Head Explodes*
Apple already hired "Phillip Shoemaker," the guy that guy that makes fart apps as their "Director of Applications Technology." So he's busy doing the Apple thing and won't have time to make fart and piss apps for RIM.
I agree that tons of cheaply made useless apps only lessen the value of a platforms app market, but really what you end up with is Apple's subjective selection process. I guess ideally one could have a selective app section walled off for those who want a more professional user experience, outside of which would be your 'unapproved' fart apps etc. Of course they would have to add some value to the creators for placing them inside the wall, but thats up to RIM to decide what it would like to offer I guess.
My fart app has 500 different sounds so they keep coming back for more.
...for whom? He seems to care about everyone except the owner of the device.
This just in - RIM's VP of platform product management, Alan Panezic, wants RIM to have it's cake and eat it too. "Yes, we'd like to have nothing but amazingly popular, 100% killer apps right out the gate. This is brilliant! Why hasn't anyone else thought of this before?"
where the hell is my boobs app?
You're not looking at ads, clicking on ads or buying premium upgrades, and the app isn't adding any value to your device.'
I hope he didn't list those problems in *decending* order of importance...
Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
I mean I can imagine, but is it really as dumb as it sounds?
Considering that only 20% of iPhone App installs get used more than once, I'd say that the BlackBerry fart apps are doing pretty well, in comparison.
-- "In order to have power, I must be taken seriously." -Mojo Jojo
Alan Panezic sez: "We don't need 200 fart apps in App World. Those are apps you'll use three or four times then never open again."
The very fact that your developers want to write them and your customers want to download them means nothing to you?
Everyone knows that if a PDA can't fart, it can't do shit.
Farting isn't a good way to get a RIM job?
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
that they want users to use any app they want and start building some momentum in their app store?
For a smart phone platform as popular as RIM, you'd think that there'd be more people using 3rd party apps, yet outside of facebook client and google maps, I rarely see people using applications that didn't come on the phone in the first place.
Seems like BlackBerry wants to determine what their customers want even before a market's developed around it, and without that market, the developers won't come build the SuperApps that they want.
199 fart apps shouls be plenty
that links to the various job hunting sites.
They could call it...ohhh...I dunno...something like "Rim Jobs"
Think about it, you can search hotjobs and save it as a search for "Hot Rim Jobs" or save your search for "Monster Rim Jobs".
It has a ring to it...you gotta admit it
Sig Follows: "Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain
I don't want fart apps, but seriously, if the comments quoted in the summary are accurate and in context (oh, wait, forgot where I was...), then I can be sure that I have no use for this product. I had a BlackBerry Storm for about a year, but the user experience was so terrible, that I chunked it and gave up on smart phones all together, switching to a Motorola Barrage, which has so far been impervious to my poor treatment of it.
I have no interest in seeing adds, getting premium content, or adding "value" to my phone experience, and I don't want to do it on a "tablet" that's smaller than a tablet but too large to be a phone, either. Sorry, not really needed. This sort of attitude from all the major players in smart phones is a large part of why I just won't go back to one until they no longer make phone-shapped, call-making cell phones.
The Fart App is the new Hello World!
You have to get experience writing for a platform somehow. Your first few programs may be throw-away, just to get used to the platform.
You can block my 200 fart apps but I only need one vuvuzela app..
did you forget to take your meds?
Damn! And my xTream-Burrito-5000(tm) project was almost ready for release.
Table-ized A.I.
They're about as classy as Terrance & Phillip.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
So App World is going to be an *approval needed* market like Apple, except MORE stringent?
I was recently on a business trip and had my blackberry at my hip.
On a trip, I needed translator software, so went to RIM app world and found my options limited, i "trialed" their $30.00 french translator. (Let me say first I tried to use the web interface for google, but it took so long and so many clicks on the BB it was unusable consistently).
Well it was useless. Didn't do phrases, no real options, only did 1 word at a time. WTF? $30.00?!?
Luckily I had my ipad handy and saw what was available on the app store there. For 1.99 I got an offline app that KILLED the blackberry app in terms of features and usability.
So, in real work business usage, I have to say, RIM, you've lost me personally, but do continue to make back bench, locked in deals with CEO's to get your phones locked into corporations while you can.
Smart people use smartphones and want usability and fart apps for novelties to take their brains away from work once in awhile. .I will never go back to blackberry.
Yo Grark
Canadian Bred with American Buttering
What many people don't realize is that BIS users out number BES users by almost 2 to 1. And BIS user will continue to out pacing BES users for coming year. Much of revenues from device sales are related to BIS user and that is much more than device sales AND services from BES.
Who cares what RIM wants?
What does the customer want? That's right - Fart Apps.
RIM and Miscreantsoft can race each other to the pit of oblivion.
"You're not looking at ads, clicking on ads or buying premium upgrades, and the app isn't adding any value to your device"
Um, no. I'm using my device as I see fit, which includes using apps that don't have ads, don't have premium upgrades, and don't force me to click on ads. And I'm sorry, but having ads in my apps doesn't increase MY value, but it increases my value TO YOU.
I really, really dislike this fantasy that ad-based companies are pushing that involves them "helping" me by providing me ads. You are not "helping" me. You are gathering revenue based on the supposition that an ad happened to distract me from what it was I wanted to do.
And by the way, am I going to be paying for the bandwidth overages your ads are going to ad to my bill? I certainly hope so.
199 fart apps should be enough for anyone.
calls the shots on FART jokes
5... 4... 3...
and expect a probing from the EU
The current customer mix is 80% BIS, 20% BES; got this at BBDevCon this week.
Of the 20% who use BES, the real power users are the ones who use MDS for client-side access to inside-the-firewall corporate applications. Nobody talks about MDS. BES is only part of the equation. MDS is the killer app that locks in high-dollar customers into contracts they will never break. VPN software on Android or iPhone can't hold a candle to MDS.
Free Beano with every Blackberry to make sure.
I hate being bipolar; it's awesome!
...the Dingleberry.
I hate being bipolar; it's awesome!
Dare I say... Blame Canada?
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
But I LOVE fart apps! There's no better feeling than to tell your wife that you're going to grab something from another isle and discretely put a timer fart in her pocket when there's a bunch of people around. Common!
.. but http://rim.jobs/ are good?
They need this app.
OK. I understand there have to be limits, but 200? I say, 640 fart apps should be enough for anybody.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Knowing that RIM wants to push me into ad-laden crapware saved me the time of going down to the 'phone store and even looking at their stuff.
Just not through AppWorld, but by adding ALX/COD to desktop manager or a website.
Try doing that with a Jesus Phone.
Design your store like Slashdot, let the users moderate things down and then browse at -1 for fart apps.
Why is this such an issue? Because Steve Jobs said it first?
Smart businesses figure out what customers want, need, or can use that those businesses can provide and they give it to them. Not-as-smart businesses decide for customers what they should have and provide it to them, and then are satisfied with the more limited customer base that comes along with that philosophy.
I kind of expected that 640 fart apps should be enough for everyone.
This guy use his fart apps 3-4 times? Why?
Also why trash-talk fart apps and e-books as applications? The iPad and iPhone got plenty and look how well they sell! ;D
NoApp
Seriously, I know they still have a large part of the market but I have no desire to code for their
platform. RIM, used to be the power player in the market but the larger they got the more complacent
they got. Then Apple came along and knocked their asses off the stump they where standing on.
Got Code?
Why would RIM wants that money. It is certainly embarrassing and probably illegal to profit in that way.
I just read on IMDB that Leonardo DiCaprio's next movie is call "Fart Apps" so you know it must be wrong.
They suck.
1. The simulators are buggy, slow, and prone to crashing.
2. Their documentation is either non-existant or full of errors.
3. Their APIs are woefully under featured.
I've been building a Mobile development team for the past 2 years (iOS, BB, Android) and I am constantly amazed at how much more productive my iOS developers are even through most everyone on my team has a Java background and RIM's OS and environment are based around J2ME and Eclipse. Until they fix their issues, they will not be able to attract enough quality developers to fill their market place with quality apps.
rim.jobs
Listen to my music.
I will program my hardware however the hell I like. If you plan on getting in my way I simply won't buy your hardware.
Love, G
Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
The thing that I love about this is that whenever a story comes up about Apple rejecting an application a lot of Slashdot posters start screaming bloody murder about "walled gardens" but when RIM decides that they are forbidding people from putting up not just Fart applications, but anything they don't feel "adds something to your life."
To think people complain that Apple's application approval rules are abstract, I mean since it's my life, shouldn't I get to decide what applications are going to add something to it, not RIM?!
But reading through the commentary most people seem to be giving them a free pass just because they're making a "business device," (whatever the hell that means since I find Apple's Exchange integration to be a hell of a lot easier to implement than any BlackBerry models I've ever had to the misfortune to be forced to setup) so for some reason the FLOSS argument suddenly doesn't apply!
I mean if you want to criticize Apple regularly for "Walling their Garden" (Or in Apple's case perhaps orchard is a more fitting term, LOL) then shouldn't you be criticizing RIM for doing the exact same thing here?
I'm honest enough to admit I lie to myself.
Becuase sometimes, the vendor doesn't have a 1 page cheat sheet, and your client will not read a 10 page dissertation on the whys and hows to do a task.
How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
Need I say more?
RIM is struggling because it filled a niche created by the failings of Windows Mobile (poor battery life and a bad user interface).
RIM fixed this by creating phones with acceptable battery life, a decent email app, and a streamlined OS.
This no longer sets the company apart from their current competitors (Android and iOS). Both Android and iOS devices have good battery life, decent email, and well thought out UIs.
If I were RIM, I would begin work on a line of Android phones. But, they have proven that they are going to do what so many once great companies have done (clutch to a failing OS until their last breath). (see Palm)
WTF is wrong with these people. Advertisements do NOT enhance anything, and I'm sick of them as they are everywhere..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I've been working on Blackberry application development (intermittently) for over 2 years. In the meantime: ... *drumroll* ... QNX - a 30-year old idea (seriously? what's up with that?) which will basically tell everyone: throw out all of your 3-4 (sometimes more) years of development and START FROM SCRATCH.
1) RIM has changed APIs causing me to have to practically having to rewrite my application for no fault at least 3 times,
2) RIM has broken perfectly working APIs causing me to have to implement workarounds for things that nowadays everyone takes for granted (like XML parsing, for example...),
3) RIM has changed the development environment from terribad (RIM JDE) to awful (terrible plugin for Eclipse, which in some versions crashes Eclipse through intellisense, and cannot properly attach to either the device or the simulator for debugging),
4) RIM is currently talking about abandoning their OS that they forced developers to live with in favor of
And now they've got the guts to tell people which apps they want to see written for the device?
... pay-per-fart.
Just how many fart apps DO they want?
Sorry about the mess.
The gross number of fart apps isn't important as long as at least 10 of them are fully scalable and suitable for enterprise use.
But if you tell developers they can't make stupid apps, then you'll never get the rare gem you weren't expecting.
They shouldn't turn it down, then they could advertise that they have 10,200 apps!
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
While he may have never actually said it, years from now the world will only remember one thing:
"64 fart apps ought to be enough for anybody"
-- Alan Panezic
"Fart" "Rim"
Rim making a phone that does not suck. Honestly their software is a PITA in every way. configuration is a nightmare that is only rivaled by Nokia Symbian.
Honestly, RIM needs to give up. iPhone and Android utterly own the market. RIM's only saving grace is that corporate likes them. and Corperate aint gonna let users install apps willy nilly.
I have the latest blackberry curve and I hate how it feels like a 1990 phone. It's clunky, not good even at what it's designed for, email. The android and iphone kick it's arse hard in every single way.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
'200 fart apps' is a side-effect of a huge creative force called a non-restricted (or nearly-unrestricted) army of free developers.
Sure, they do what the market wants, rather than what RIM's CEO deems is of a personal opinion could be useful.
pro: huge app base, huge choice of vendor for the same kind of app, unique idea apps (turn iPhone screen into a break light for a bicycle? etc etc).
con: fart apps. Seriously, big whoop.
They go in a tight package. Ask Linus. Ask Bill. Ask Steve.
RIM is not a platform for any 3rd party software dev that isn't actively being paid by RIM. It's not a platform - it's a standalone niche product.
The con might give your platform -1, but the pro gives it +100.
Which is why RIM will never crawl out of its corporate niche.
PS
Had a bb from work for 2 years. Now have i
-
So the app isn't intelligent and it doesn't have ad space, so what? The blackberry might be a widely used phone but that doesn't mean it's actually a good phone. I have a blackberry and it's currently on it's 8th time getting replaced. On this phone alone I'm on the 3rd full OS wipe and reinstall and lets not even talk about the freezing issues. If Rim wants to make an agrument and try to block and app based on how "needed" it is or how much "value" it adds to your phone then I'm laughing.
Rim has yet to develop a good phone OS, it has yet to make reliable hardware then always works and it has yet to start rolling out models that don't have the same problems cycle to cycle. So if someone wants to use 200 Fart, then lets them, it far from the worst thing on the phone because infact the worst thing about Blackberry it's self is the phone and software on it that Rim put on.
So they want " 'SuperApps', ones that keep you coming back for more because they add something to your life.." What we need here is an application that is hooked up directly to a sufferer of chronic gastro-enteritis. Through a collection of discreetly placed microphones, the sounds of his poisoned flatuses (mixed artfully with his timely groans and grunts) would be streamed live to Blackberries worldwide. It's gold, I tells ya.
We use BobX. Don't you?
I think companies should stop trying to dictate what their users do and do not want. Having fart apps hardly devalue a device, and the moment you censor one app for one reason, is the moment you're going to have other people beating down your door trying to legitimize their own reasons for barring other apps, and you'll have no legitimate excuse to refuse them. Better to just be impartial, and let the user decide.
Furthermore, this is solving the wrong problem. Don't try to reduce the scope of your app selection in an indirect attempt to improve user experience when finding and installing apps, just improve the user experience directly. Improve search, improve categorization, make app searching interactive instead of by keyword, ie. interactive wizard-style interfaces like 20 questions perhaps. You know, be innovative instead of restrictive.
Higher Logics: where programming meets science.
Maybe it's just me, but if I PAY for an app, I sure as hell don't want it flashing ads at me while using it. I already PAID for it... stop trying to siphon off even more money by trying to generate ad-based revenue.
With that said, I don't mind ads in trial-ware... and depending on the app and the way the ads are done, ads in free-ware might be tolerable as well within certain limits. But you better not put ads in PAID FOR apps or you will never get the sale with me.
Besides, this is very shaky ground especially for corporate users, if the apps are purchased for work. I don't think that there are many companies who want to be paying their employees to watch ads. And this is exactly what they would be doing if ads are allowed into paid apps.
This obsession with having ads everywhere is really getting out of hand.
And I don't need a Blackberry either - problem fixed.
If you post as an AC, don't expect me to spend a mod point on you.
OK. I understand there have to be limits, but 200? I say, 640 fart apps should be enough for anybody.
Don't you mean 640K?
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
Qt is amazing. To this day I see it as "The Standard C++ Library" as the one which is part of the standard is utter crap.
Qt suffers some major drawbacks. First of all, because of lack of something similar to delegates as you'd find in C# (though there are some interesting "clones" of it), Qt still uses moc. I have a personal library which practically clones the structure of Qt but is based on inheritance instead of signals and slots. It works really well and Nokia/Qt should consider switching to that model as well.
Second, Qt draws everything itself. It does not make use of native system form controls which has always been a huge point of contention in the Mac world. Qt does a great job, but because of the piss poor support from Apple for making accessibility features easily implementable, DIY form controls are a bit of a nightmare. It was a hair better in Carbon, but in Cocoa, it's no fun.
Now, you're in the right direction for iPhone development. WebKit is based on a clone of Qt Core which is really the best part of Qt anyway. You can do almost all your coding on another platform and then port back to Mac with little effort thanks to Qt core.
If you're making a cool program instead of some form controls based crap, then in reality, you're probably writing the entire UI yourself anyway. For that, you can easily make use of Qt and QGLWidget as a base. QGLWidget is insanely easy to port to NS classes.
I write all my iPhone stuff by doing all the development in Windows in Visual Studio (2008, but will move to 2010 now that Qt supports it). I write everything using OpenGL ES. I use the really great tools from NVidia and AMD (as well as others like Unity) to develop shaders which I use for entirely inappropriate purposes such as "because I can". Then I use Window CE based phones running a Samsung ARM processor to optimize my code for iPhone. When I'm done, I load up the project in XCode, toss it into a skeleton application, compile and debug for iPhone.
Best part is, for multiple developers you can use a single Mac Mini running iRapp to integrate Mac OS X into your Windows desktop and you never even have to code on Mac (which I never liked unless it's from vi on the command line). I guess you could also use a hackintosh as well, but a Mac Mini is OK for an occasional compile and a little debugging. A bit on the pricey side though.
The next "nasty nasty" is how to support Android like this, I do this in a similar fashion, but then I don't even need the mac to do it. Just code everything in Visual Studio, then create make files to compile the native code for Android. Then use whatever crapheap Java tool you want to hack the Android UI together, make some JNI calls to start the library and you're good to go. Expect to have at least 20 Android devices near by to test on though, you can't write native code for Android and expect it to function properly on different devices.
As for CrapBerry, you're basically screwed altogether. There are some piss-poor solutions to use GCC to compile for a Java back-end, but it's crud. The only thing I can recommend in this situation is that if you're starting a new app, keep the code as "portable as possible" meaning so that you can either preprocess your C++ code to Java and polish it or make your C++ code look exactly like Java for the most part.
Qt is an awesome platform, but it looks like it will be a long time if ever before there's such a thing as a good cross platform solution for phone development. Hell, I have problems writing code that will work on two different Android devices.
This story has negative informational content. RIMM doesn't want a bunch of crappy apps on their platform? Really? Wow. Who would have thought that? Would almost be nice if someone were to inspect the apps before they got posted, huh? Oh wait...
...headline "RIM doesn't want fart apps"
I thought that farts were one of the primary functions of your rim.
Don't kid yourself. It's the size of the regexp AND how you use it that counts.
RIM may not want 200 fart apps but the customers do, and the customer is always right. The market has spoken RIM and if you don't head it's call you may continue running your organization into the ground.