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(yes, I am a No Starch Press employee)

The hour long discussion has been archived on mp3

and whoever published the first book on using Gimp
Yes, Grokking the Gimp is published by New Riders. They have quite a few free books in their catalog. Some of them are really good (e.g., Grokking the Gimp), while others have, mmm, shall we say... low production values :-)

Also those books with the black shiny covers... 'Orilios' I think may be the publisher
You mean Coriolis? Do you know of any of their titles that are free?

I have a copy of Running Linux, which I read as a newbie, and to say the truth, its not the first book I'd recommend to a linux newbie. I'd suggest Unix Power Tools and The Linux Cookbook. But don't take my word for it: there is a sample chapter of Unix Power Tools and the full text of the Linux Cookbook online.

The reason I recommend the Linux Cookbook is that it tells what programs can do what things. As a newbie, I don't know how to use a scanner, or how to record a CD. (OTOH, the Linux Cookbook does tend to lean heavily towards Debian).

Unix Power Tools is a must read because it is a thick collection of simple tricks of the trade. Plus, its a good example how to think like Unix. I'm not sure about you, but the reason why I run Linux on two of my computers is that it can get things done quickly and easily.

Speaking of quickly and easily, I'd also have to strongly recommend Learning Perl as a primer to perl and the Perl Cookbook as a collection of perl snippets. Perl is a damn useful language to know, as Learning Perl says : "Making Easy Things Easy and Hard Things Possible".

Anyways, my choices tend to be more 'how to do things' rather then 'how the current version or distro works'. Heck, other then for the Linux Cookbook, the rest are good reading for *BSD and other unix users. I prefer advocating the unix mentality instead of one specific distro or kernel.

To be fair, I haven't read Running Linux in awhile. Perhaps my memory is cloudy. There is also the Linux Problem Solver, which I find a tad too simple and shallow, but might be helpful to a few people out there.

Btw, I know book budgets tend to suck. (And O'Reilly books [or any technical book really]) tend to be budget breakers. However, at least one book chain that I know of (Barnes & Nobles) marks down O'Reilly books into the $10-or-so range when a new edition comes out, and for a few of the technical books, Ebay can offer a fraction of the cover price. Be wise though - I tend to avoid older editions if they were published pre-1998 or so unless I know the book is still relevant - the linux world is changing pretty fast.

Hmmmm.... I wonder if I should have recommended a good book on LaTeX. For those unix users who have to type a lot of papers, LaTeX is worth taking a look at. Then again, I haven't found a good LaTeX book yet myself. :)

I have a copy of Running Linux, which I read as a newbie, and to say the truth, its not the first book I'd recommend to a linux newbie. I'd suggest Unix Power Tools and The Linux Cookbook. But don't take my word for it: there is a sample chapter of Unix Power Tools and the full text of the Linux Cookbook online.

The reason I recommend the Linux Cookbook is that it tells what programs can do what things. As a newbie, I don't know how to use a scanner, or how to record a CD. (OTOH, the Linux Cookbook does tend to lean heavily towards Debian).

Unix Power Tools is a must read because it is a thick collection of simple tricks of the trade. Plus, its a good example how to think like Unix. I'm not sure about you, but the reason why I run Linux on two of my computers is that it can get things done quickly and easily.

Speaking of quickly and easily, I'd also have to strongly recommend Learning Perl as a primer to perl and the Perl Cookbook as a collection of perl snippets. Perl is a damn useful language to know, as Learning Perl says : "Making Easy Things Easy and Hard Things Possible".

Anyways, my choices tend to be more 'how to do things' rather then 'how the current version or distro works'. Heck, other then for the Linux Cookbook, the rest are good reading for *BSD and other unix users. I prefer advocating the unix mentality instead of one specific distro or kernel.

To be fair, I haven't read Running Linux in awhile. Perhaps my memory is cloudy. There is also the Linux Problem Solver, which I find a tad too simple and shallow, but might be helpful to a few people out there.

Btw, I know book budgets tend to suck. (And O'Reilly books [or any technical book really]) tend to be budget breakers. However, at least one book chain that I know of (Barnes & Nobles) marks down O'Reilly books into the $10-or-so range when a new edition comes out, and for a few of the technical books, Ebay can offer a fraction of the cover price. Be wise though - I tend to avoid older editions if they were published pre-1998 or so unless I know the book is still relevant - the linux world is changing pretty fast.

Hmmmm.... I wonder if I should have recommended a good book on LaTeX. For those unix users who have to type a lot of papers, LaTeX is worth taking a look at. Then again, I haven't found a good LaTeX book yet myself. :)

Yes, this group represents all writers who join, in the same way Congress represents the US citizenry. The phrase "tyrrany of the majority" comes to mind. It's a committee, with all that that entails.

The Guild requested members not link to Amazon. Individual members can decide whether or not to comply.

Personally, I will comply. Here's why.

As a new author with my third book coming out, I have a simple goal: make a living doing something I enjoy. Some people enjoy systems administration, or get the warm fuzzies from nursing or working in a pet shop. I want you to read my stuff. If you enjoy it, I want you to buy more of it. As an author, it's my job to make damned sure you enjoy it. Used bookstores assist in this goal, for reasons detailed elsewhere in this discussion.

I would prefer you bought my books new. I would also prefer that my publisher paid me a royalty of $500 per copy sold. And, while I'm at it, I'd like a pony.

These days, the economics of writing are harsh. We're being squeezed by publishers in the same way users are being squeezed by publishers. (I'm very lucky to have a publisher who is not only reasonable, but downright generous. It's also a small company, which explains a lot.) The DMCA is a weapon to be used against users, but the publishing contract is a weapon to be used against writers. When you have a one-on-one relationship, and one party is freakin' huge compared to the other, the big guy don't needs laws to enforce his will.

If your name isn't headline material, you're shafted. The advance on a novel in 1960 was about three thousand dollars. The advance on a novel in 2000 was about three thousand dollars. You do the math.

As an outhor, not linking to Amazon is a good idea. There are other vendors that will sell books that will put more money in my pocket. In this context, asking Amazon to not display used books so prominently is reasonable.

It's also reasonable for Amazon to say no.

The real problem here is the majority of publishing companies. More books are published, by volume, than ever before. Fewer individual authors are published than ever before. Most of the books on the Web are crap -- the technical content is OK, but when was the last time you read a good, new, Web-only novel? The "publishing explosion" of Web stuff is simply an explosion of compost with a few diamonds strewn through it.

I long for the day when print-on-demand becomes possible for mainstream distribution, and new authors can have their works available. But by that time, the publishing companies will have tightened the "standard contract" so far that an author will no longer own their own work. It's already happening, much as it happened to the music business.

try one of the candidates from no starch press sdl game development contest

What kind? Zope, and other web application servers are an area of interest.

Don't know if this interests you or not, but No Starch Press has one for Zope.

So yes, they proved that Linux is not only a toy OS for hackers. And this means a lot.

Loki has made Linux better, from technical point of view. We have SDL and OpenAL. We have a great book Programming Linux Games by Loki Software and John R. Hall. For all of these Loki deserves big thanks from all of us. We also owe them apology for not supporting them as we should. It's sad, but their economical failure is mostly our fault. We have to understand that.

Linux community is a pretty strange market. We're used to free speech and free beer. So I guess now we have to wait for WorldForge.

So yes, they proved that Linux is not only a toy OS for hackers. And this means a lot.

Loki has made Linux better, from technical point of view. We have SDL and OpenAL. We have a great book Programming Linux Games by Loki Software and John R. Hall. For all of these Loki deserves big thanks from all of us. We also owe them apology for not supporting them as we should. It's sad, but their economical failure is mostly our fault. We have to understand that.

Linux community is a pretty strange market. We're used to free speech and free beer. So I guess now we have to wait for WorldForge. I'm not holding my breath for any commercial games for Linux anytime soon...

>>>>>>>>>>>I would love to see an openBe implimentation, because it would be really nice to have an opensource OS geard toward multimedia instead of networking and programming. (Linux is many wonderful things, but it simply not geared for multimedia.) >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>

ditto on that; BeOS should have been geared to multimedia exclusively. Apple has some hardcore fans in the recording world, mainly because of protools. a free OS that was geared towards visual art/music creation would be a welcome addition. Linux is nice, but i don't see any really high-quality sound apps (e.g., anything by SonicFoundry or Native Instruments) or anything comparable. I've leafed through 'linux music and sound' and have yet to find anything that really compares to the windows (or even apple) apps available. BeOS' death was drivers and supported hardware -- with an open version of BeOS, that wouldn't be as much of a problem, since there would be a more open (no pun intended,) environment for hobbyists to develop their own drivers and apps.

:) Actually, you can link to books.

(This bit here is to get around the stupid "postercomment compression filter" yet still post my insightful comment....)

-John

Hopefully, Loki's book, Programming Linux Games will be a lot better.

Does anyone know of any early reviews of this book? It's due to be relesed in August.

-Karl

I think No Starch Press does a good job of making Linux applications accessible to non-technical/creative users. Yes, there's no substitute for experience, but Linux Music and Sound opened my eyes to applications on Linux that I had no idea existed, and I found The Blender Book to be very accessible. Now, I wish they would write a book on using Broadcast 2000, which was treated briefly in Linux Music and Sound. I think the press might evangelize a few users simply by having their book available at Barnes & Noble or whatever, reminding users there are free alternatives to Photoshop or Media 100, which can be out of the reach of many starving artists.
In additon, the instructions in the book are written for the layman, unlike much of the documentation included in RPMs or on websites, which seem to focus on revisions or technical feature discussions. Its about how to use the program, not how the program works or was made.
Finally, although the CDs No Starch includes with the books may not be the most up-to-date versions of the software, they are very useful for users who do not have broadband connections and may not be able to easily download large applications. Since they are all on one CD, it is trivial for a user to try many applications, finding which ones best suit his or her needs.

I think No Starch Press does a good job of making Linux applications accessible to non-technical/creative users. Yes, there's no substitute for experience, but Linux Music and Sound opened my eyes to applications on Linux that I had no idea existed, and I found The Blender Book to be very accessible. Now, I wish they would write a book on using Broadcast 2000, which was treated briefly in Linux Music and Sound. I think the press might evangelize a few users simply by having their book available at Barnes & Noble or whatever, reminding users there are free alternatives to Photoshop or Media 100, which can be out of the reach of many starving artists.
In additon, the instructions in the book are written for the layman, unlike much of the documentation included in RPMs or on websites, which seem to focus on revisions or technical feature discussions. Its about how to use the program, not how the program works or was made.
Finally, although the CDs No Starch includes with the books may not be the most up-to-date versions of the software, they are very useful for users who do not have broadband connections and may not be able to easily download large applications. Since they are all on one CD, it is trivial for a user to try many applications, finding which ones best suit his or her needs.